Larger caliber semi-auto

[GJM]

I would like a semi-auto long gun, I think in .308, that would allow me to, for example, harvest deer out to 400 yards on Kodiak Island, while also having the capability of defending against a multiple bear attack, like the sow and two adult cubs that mauled friends a few years back on Afognak Island, on the north end of Kodiak. In a perfect world, this would be a lightweight rifle that handled well, went between a LPV and red dot, was MOA accurate and very reliable.

In years back, I had a few Larue .308 rifles, but sold them unfired based on some negative reports. I also had early Knights Armament rifles, but found the 16 inch models unreliable and the longer barrel models pretty clubby. I still have a pair of SCAR 17 carbines, but the stock does not get along with my high cheekbones, and if possible I prefer regular AR controls. The strong SCAR market makes it easy to convert those to cash. Not interested in a FAL, HK 91 or M1A for this use, based on past experience.

Here are three possibilitie:

SR-25 E2 ACC. The size and weight are attractive and it is reputed to handle well for a .308. Negatives are it is crazy expensive, as in $4,900, and there are some friends with very negative KAC CS experiences.

LMT LM8MWS FDE Slick Upper 16. Lots of real world military experience, reported great CS from LMT, and supposedly very accurate. Significantly less costly than the SR-25. Negative is, despite being their lightweight model, it is still 9 plus pounds.

Wilson Combat Recon Tactical. Just under 8 pounds is a major positive.

Thoughts?

[Default.mp3]

I originally was going to go with the custom built route, but went with a KAC CC upper due to a group buy. That being said, during my time planning for the custom built, Citizen Arms (https://www.citizenarms.com/) came up more than once as a guy that could build a high quality large frame rifle.

The Daniel Defense DD5V1 might also be worth a peek.

Maybe drop the weight on the LMT even more by opting for the lightweight 13" barrel rather than the lightweight 16"? E-filed Form 1s are suppose to be coming back really fast these days, within a month I've heard.

[El Cid]

I’ve had great luck with my LaRue PredatAR 762. It’s a 16” circa late 2012. With a Z6i 1-6 and Scout light it’s light enough to carry (I don’t have the exact weight).

If I was shopping today I’d give the DD .308 a go. What we the rifle I’d stick with the Swaro 1-6. Maybe a 1-8 but the FOV is ridiculous and the dot brighter than Mubarak Aimpoints. With the BRT reticle it’s good to 600 yards. Ran it in a F2S Heavy Carbine class and it had zero issues.

[BN]

Do they still have heavy metal in 3-gun? What are those guys shooting?

[Grey]

Did you try converting to the ACR stock instead of the UGG boot SCAR stock stock?

[El Cid]

FWIW: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-ar-10s/

I have no affiliation with that site.

[GJM]

I had read of some issues with the DD — what is the latest thinking on those? Reasonably priced, good weight.

[1911Nut]

Another vote for the Daniel Defense DD5V1. There is a lot to like about this rifle.

[MGW]

I’m going to play good idea fairy for a minute. Have you looked at 6.5 Creedmoor? From what I’ve read they would meet your ballistic requirements and they seem to work well out of AR style rifles. I’ve been this close to building one multiples times but truth be told I just don’t have a (practical) need for something like that. I forget who is building them for Kyle Lamb but he talks about them in his podcast a lot. Lightweight, lots of energy, flat shooting, and really accurate. Buying ammo anywhere would be a possible draw back though.

[CoGT3]

LMT Mlok chassis will save you a few ounces. They also have LW profiles of their 16" chrome lined and SS barrels, will save another 8 ounces. Would think for your purposes the LW profile would serve you well. Will still be heavier compared to the KAC but is battle tested. (And unlike Larue, had a 308 predatObr also, LMT actually has barrels in different calibers/lengths readily available).




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[El Cid]

Just looked at the LMT site. Had no idea until you posted here they are doing M-lok now. I could be inclined to go that route.

[shane45]

All 3 are great rifles with nuance to each one. The LMT is cool because of its ability to switch calibers. But when I had one, I found that feature wasnt actually a big benefit for me. And it was heavy! I love my KAC, accurate, reliable, light. The Wilson is the only one in this discussion I havent owned but the reports from people I trust, I wouldnt hesitate to get one. I like my OBR too. Its the most accurate by a smidge but its HEAVY! But if you already have a SCAR its plenty capable 400 and in, very controllable, light and foldable, I think would make it well suited for the role your considering. Just get a stock conversion for it.

[GJM]

All 3 are great rifles with nuance to each one. The LMT is cool because of its ability to switch calibers. But when I had one, I found that feature wasnt actually a big benefit for me. And it was heavy! I love my KAC, accurate, reliable, light. The Wilson is the only one in this discussion I havent owned but the reports from people I trust, I wouldnt hesitate to get one. I like my OBR too. Its the most accurate by a smidge but its HEAVY! But if you already have a SCAR its plenty capable 400 and in, very controllable, light and foldable, I think would make it well suited for the role your considering. Just get a stock conversion for it.

Link to stock conversion?

[shane45]

Here is one for the ACR:

https://kineticdg.com/product/scarsasstockblack/

Here is one for any M4 stock but I think you give up folding:

https://mesatactical.com/fn-scar/

I have installed the VLTOR for a customer. I did not care for that adapter. I went around and around with VLTOR on the dimensions of their adapter and how they were off and I could prove it with pictures of the measurements. Their advice was to smack it in place. This would spread the aluminum "hook" of the rear receiver. I asked then if they were going to replace the rifle if it cracked! I ended up machining the adapter for a proper fit for the customer.

[BCG]

I would like a semi-auto long gun, I think in .308


I still have a pair of SCAR 17 carbines, but the stock does not get along with my high cheekbones, and if possible I prefer regular AR controls. The strong SCAR market makes it easy to convert those to cash.


Thoughts?

I'm waiting for the CZ Bren 2 in .308 to be available for civilian sales in the USA, although I'm not sure when that's going to happen or what the price is going to be.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRz-ZH7Axgc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRz-ZH7Axgc

[HCM]

Another satisfied Larue Predatar user here. The issues with Larue AR 10s generally predate the Xtran system and Larue making their own barrels.

[backtrail540]

I seem to recall JodyH had good experience with an HK a few years back. Maybe he could provide an update. Here's the thread

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13475-H-amp-K-MR762

[03RN]

Any interest in a Winchester 100, Browning bar, or m7400?

[GJM]

Any interest in a Winchester 100, Browning bar, or m7400?

For a while, I considered the Browning, but couldn’t get a warm feeling abipout it being something I could both shoot to 400 and depend upon to defend me and mine.

https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/rifles/bar/current-production/bar-mk3-stalker-detachable-magazine.html

[03RN]

I'm not sure the Winchester or Remington are accurate enough or that they would be reliable enough in the AK climate which is to bad.

[littlejerry]

Curious to hear if anyone has time with the Savage MSR10. It uses the smaller frame/bolt like the DPMS GII. Their 16" Hunter model is listed at 7.8 lbs.

[OlongJohnson]

Still thinking about the Benelli in .30-06 at all?

[TCFD273]

I would like a semi-auto long gun, I think in .308, that would allow me to, for example, harvest deer out to 400 yards on Kodiak Island, while also having the capability of defending against a multiple bear attack, like the sow and two adult cubs that mauled friends a few years back on Afognak Island, on the north end of Kodiak. In a perfect world, this would be a lightweight rifle that handled well, went between a LPV and red dot, was MOA accurate and very reliable.

In years back, I had a few Larue .308 rifles, but sold them unfired based on some negative reports. I also had early Knights Armament rifles, but found the 16 inch models unreliable and the longer barrel models pretty clubby. I still have a pair of SCAR 17 carbines, but the stock does not get along with my high cheekbones, and if possible I prefer regular AR controls. The strong SCAR market makes it easy to convert those to cash. Not interested in a FAL, HK 91 or M1A for this use, based on past experience.

Here are three possibilitie:

SR-25 E2 ACC. The size and weight are attractive and it is reputed to handle well for a .308. Negatives are it is crazy expensive, as in $4,900, and there are some friends with very negative KAC CS experiences.

LMT LM8MWS FDE Slick Upper 16. Lots of real world military experience, reported great CS from LMT, and supposedly very accurate. Significantly less costly than the SR-25. Negative is, despite being their lightweight model, it is still 9 plus pounds.

Wilson Combat Recon Tactical. Just under 8 pounds is a major positive.

Thoughts?

I have a fair amount of time behind gas 308’s. Larue, WC, KAC, and several of my own builds using Mega Arms upper/lower.

I have plenty of negative things to say about them in general. I found most not to meet my reliability standards, or not live up to my accuracy standards. Running a gas gun accurately can be difficult, requires concrete fundamentals and a few tricks to wring the most out of them.

On timed drills past 300, there’s only a slight advantage to the gasser, and if the shots are tight, the bolt wins.

If you’re good with 1.5 moa average with over the counter ammo, a gas gun will suit you fine. If someone claims better accuracy than that with factory ammo....I would be highly suspicious.

Having said all that, I’m anxiously awaiting the release of the Barrett Rec 10. I no longer own any large frame gas guns, but from what I’ve heard, I might give it another go with the Rec 10.

To clarify-5, 5 shot groups, fired consecutively, untimed, is the standard I go by to determine the accuracy of a rifle with me behind it.


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[TCFD273]

I would like a semi-auto long gun, I think in .308, that would allow me to, for example, harvest deer out to 400 yards on Kodiak Island, while also having the capability of defending against a multiple bear attack, like the sow and two adult cubs that mauled friends a few years back on Afognak Island, on the north end of Kodiak. In a perfect world, this would be a lightweight rifle that handled well, went between a LPV and red dot, was MOA accurate and very reliable.

In years back, I had a few Larue .308 rifles, but sold them unfired based on some negative reports. I also had early Knights Armament rifles, but found the 16 inch models unreliable and the longer barrel models pretty clubby. I still have a pair of SCAR 17 carbines, but the stock does not get along with my high cheekbones, and if possible I prefer regular AR controls. The strong SCAR market makes it easy to convert those to cash. Not interested in a FAL, HK 91 or M1A for this use, based on past experience.

Here are three possibilitie:

SR-25 E2 ACC. The size and weight are attractive and it is reputed to handle well for a .308. Negatives are it is crazy expensive, as in $4,900, and there are some friends with very negative KAC CS experiences.

LMT LM8MWS FDE Slick Upper 16. Lots of real world military experience, reported great CS from LMT, and supposedly very accurate. Significantly less costly than the SR-25. Negative is, despite being their lightweight model, it is still 9 plus pounds.

Wilson Combat Recon Tactical. Just under 8 pounds is a major positive.

Thoughts?

Forgot to add:

Of those, buy the WC.

It’s the only one I’d carry into the field. Hunting buddy uses one. He’s taken a small bull elk, a cow, and several white tail with it over the years I’ve known him. It’s light, reliable, and If an issue comes up, they’ll take care of it.



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[Casual Friday]

How are the S&W M&P10s?

[DocGKR]

Which ones have stood up to the rigors of sustained OCONUS combat use?

That would likely be a good place to start....

[Screwball]

Which ones have stood up to the rigors of sustained OCONUS combat use?

That would likely be a good place to start....

.308s aren’t that great of a lineage for that. Maybe it changed lately, but when I started looking for a .308 rifle, I saw a lot of negatives on SR-25s and alike. Actually made me invest in a M1A instead.

For ARs, I’ve heard A LOT of good with the S&W M&P-10. I’m not buying a rifle or pistol until I leave NJ’s jurisdiction... but the M&P-10 is on my list. Considering I’m going to Houlton, ME for work... kind of works out great to buy a S&W.

[TCFD273]

Which ones have stood up to the rigors of sustained OCONUS combat use?

That would likely be a good place to start....

Are you referring to KAC or it’s replacement, the HK G28?

I have no time behind the HK, but I do with the KAC.

I personally do not think it does anything a WC cannot for George’s intended use. And it costs almost 2xs as much.




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[HCM]

Which ones have stood up to the rigors of sustained OCONUS combat use?

That would likely be a good place to start....

That would be:

KAC M-110 (the issues reported were with earlier versions of the SR25)
LMT MWS (with the Brits and other commonwealth)
Scar
Armalite (Canada and Brazilian Police use)

Tne MWS has the best reputation of these but there is a weight penalty.

[SteveB]

If bears are a possibility, I’d at least consider the .338 Federal:

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/338-federal/

[GJM]

If bears are a possibility, I’d at least consider the .338 Federal:

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/338-federal/

On our discussion list, but do you think a .338 Federal will penetrate the brain of a bear any better than a .308 with a good bullet? If not, the .338 Federal is disadvantaged in the 300-400 yard deer envelope, is another caliber to stock, and is surely less proven than .308 in terms of reliability.

[Sensei]

If price and caliber conversions are not concerns, then the KAC SR25 ACC (now called E2 CC) with a NF1-8 ATCAR is my vote. If cost is a concern but weight is not, then I say a LMT MWS.

Having said that, tons of people are using SCARs, OBRs, REPRs, and even M14 variants for what the OP describes.

[Hizzie]

Have you looked at the Galil ACE in 7.62x51?

[BobM]

How are the S&W M&P10s?

A former poster said it made a good hunting rifle but not necessarily a good battle rifle. If I recall, he didn't seem to think it would hold up to heavy use.
I've shot mine quite a bit out to 600 yards after putting a free float rail and I would definitely consider it accurate enough for deer at 400. Mine has been completely reliable with ball ammo from Federal, PMC, and Federal Gold Medal 168s and Hornady 155 AMAX. I think it has a lighter barrel than most of the 308 ARs out there.

[GJM]

Been discussing this with some AK friends, and the multiple bear attack, while hunting deer is a major concern. I got charged on my first day hunting on Kodiak, fortunately by just one bear, and a man was severely mauled on Afognak, deer hunting off a boat with my friends, a few years ago. A long way of saying this is just not a theoretical consideration. They are “figure this out and tell us what to get.”

The rifle needs to be accurate and handy enough you would carry it to harvest deer on a sport hunt, but dead nuts reliable enough that when that when this rifle is all that stands between you and the end of your life, it works. I considered hunting with a 14 inch Benelli in my hands, and a light bolt slung, but the do all semi-auto seems more efficient.

[Sigfan26]

Have you looked at the Galil ACE in 7.62x51?

Only folks I know with them have a vested interest in keeping advertisers happy. The guns are very reliable, but 2-3MOA at best.


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[TCFD273]

Been discussing this with some AK friends, and the multiple bear attack, while hunting deer is a major concern. I got charged on my first day hunting on Kodiak, fortunately by just one bear, and a man was severely mauled on Afognak, deer hunting off a boat with my friends, a few years ago. A long way of saying this is just not a theoretical consideration. They are “figure this out and tell us what to get.”

The rifle needs to be accurate and handy enough you would carry it to harvest deer on a sport hunt, but dead nuts reliable enough that when that when this rifle is all that stands between you and the end of your life, it works. I considered hunting with a 14 inch Benelli in my hands, and a light bolt slung, but the do all semi-auto seems more efficient.

Are you going to carry it with a round chambered?


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[GJM]

Are you going to carry it with a round chambered?


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Except for special circumstances, like stalking animals, or certain cover in bear country, we have historically been empty chamber in shotguns, lever and bolt guns when in the field. The AR does not seem conducive to quickly chambering or to multiple chambering/unchambering cycles with the same round, so we will have to consider this.

[TCFD273]

Except for special circumstances, like stalking animals, or certain cover in bear country, we have historically been empty chamber in shotguns, lever and bolt guns when in the field. The AR does not seem conducive to quickly chambering or to multiple chambering/unchambering cycles with the same round, so we will have to consider this.

In nasty weather I wouldn’t trust many gas 308’s to cycle without putting it through its paces in poor conditions. I also wouldn’t run an adjustable gas block in your situation, I’d prefer fixed and maybe a little over gassed.

I would purchase from a reputable manufacturer with excellent customer service.

I believe you and I hunt in similar terrain, and weight is something I always consider.

Since I’m in the WC camp, I would call Bill and talk to him about his 308’s and your situation. I know he has hunted a lot with his 308.


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[Default.mp3]

I've been pondering the Desert Tech MDR; the bullpup form factor might make it a bit handier? It is also short-stroke piston, so that's arguably a better choice than a DI gun in weather extremes. Being from Desert Tech, I'd assume that it'd be more accuracy oriented than other .308 bullpups on the market, like the TAVOR 7 or the RFB.

@Failure2Stop (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=1248) might be able to shed some light on current KAC offerings.

[Grey]

I've been pondering the Desert Tech MDR; the bullpup form factor might make it a bit handier? It is also short-stroke piston, so that's arguably a better choice than a DI gun in weather extremes. Being from Desert Tech, I'd assume that it'd be more accuracy oriented than other .308 bullpups on the market, like the TAVOR 7 or the RFB.

@Failure2Stop (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=1248) might be able to shed some light on current KAC offerings.Ive been following the DT MDR for years. Its pretty much been a disaster all the way along. People are still sending guns back due to issues with the ejection. I would wait until they unfuck their shit before getting one.

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[GJM]

In nasty weather I wouldn’t trust many gas 308’s to cycle without putting it through its paces in poor conditions. I also wouldn’t run an adjustable gas block in your situation, I’d prefer fixed and maybe a little over gassed.


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Interesting point, as I have had an issue in the past with a big bore AR with an adjustable gas block. Of the guns we have been discussing, which have fixed gas blocks?

[TCFD273]

Interesting point, as I have had an issue in the past with a big bore AR with an adjustable gas block. Of the guns we have been discussing, which have fixed gas blocks?

Off the top of my head, WC, KAC, HK MR 7.62 (piston)

I’ve had both, and have had an adjustable fail in a PRS match (6.5 gun). Since we are tossing bear defense in the mix, it’s a no go for me.


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[Sensei]

I've been pondering the Desert Tech MDR; the bullpup form factor might make it a bit handier? It is also short-stroke piston, so that's arguably a better choice than a DI gun in weather extremes. Being from Desert Tech, I'd assume that it'd be more accuracy oriented than other .308 bullpups on the market, like the TAVOR 7 or the RFB.

@Failure2Stop (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=1248) might be able to shed some light on current KAC offerings.

The MDR is NOT ready for prime time and Desert Tech has taken a pretty big reputation hit over this very rifle. They still need to beta test the ejection system, new gas valve, a possibly a new extractor on their customers for a couple more years. :rolleyes:


The Tavor 7 is not on the market yet.

[Grey]

The MDR is NOT ready for prime time and Desert Tech has taken a pretty big reputation hit over this very rifle. They still need to beta test the ejection system, new gas valve, a possibly a new extractor on their customers for a couple more years. :rolleyes:


The Tavor 7 is not on the market yet.Tavor 7 will be on the market before DT fixes the weapon of the future [emoji849]

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[JRB]

I share a building with some Recon Marines, and depending on who you ask they either love their M110's or hate their M110's. Weapons are assigned by SN to each shooter, so a shooter with a dud rifle isn't likely to enjoy his.
By the same token, Lester Polfus described elements of our military as capable of 'breaking a 200lb blacksmith's anvil and getting it pregnant' or something to that effect. Being a Soldier myself and having worked with Marines on several occasions, yes, we're really damn hard on our equipment and our weapons are no exception. So anecdotes from folks who carried one in uniform should be considered from a perspective of that weapon having been abused and poorly maintained, often with damaged magazines, even with high-speed-low-drag sorts of outfits.

From all that I've read and seen recently, LaRue rifles deliver on accuracy. A fellow NCO I worked with for years ETS'd and now works down the road from me with some very high-speed gov guys, and they issue LaRue PredatAR 7.62's as DMR's. Last we spoke he only had great things to say about the accuracy and high-round-count durability of those rifles. They also do fine in our desert conditions with sensible maintenance but they haven't tested ruthless cold-weather reliability due to our geographic location.

But if one wants cold-weather battlefield reliability in Alaska as well as that accuracy, I'd either figure out how to make the SCAR's stock livable, or sell the SCAR's for HK MR762's.
The MR762's are a bit chunky right @9-10lbs before optics, but I'd strongly consider it if a LaRue is a no-go and the SCAR can't be made to work.

[ranger]

Been discussing this with some AK friends, and the multiple bear attack, while hunting deer is a major concern. I got charged on my first day hunting on Kodiak, fortunately by just one bear, and a man was severely mauled on Afognak, deer hunting off a boat with my friends, a few years ago. A long way of saying this is just not a theoretical consideration. They are “figure this out and tell us what to get.”

The rifle needs to be accurate and handy enough you would carry it to harvest deer on a sport hunt, but dead nuts reliable enough that when that when this rifle is all that stands between you and the end of your life, it works. I considered hunting with a 14 inch Benelli in my hands, and a light bolt slung, but the do all semi-auto seems more efficient.

I hunted Antelope with a 20 inch 6.5 Grendel AR and I found it heavy. I switched to a Kimber Montana 280AI and it was much better for hunting and carrying long distance. I suggest that the 2 weapon option - each optimized for its purpose - may actually be a better option.

[El Cid]

From all that I've read and seen recently, LaRue rifles deliver on accuracy. A fellow NCO I worked with for years ETS'd and now works down the road from me with some very high-speed gov guys, and they issue LaRue PredatAR 7.62's as DMR's. Last we spoke he only had great things to say about the accuracy and high-round-count durability of those rifles. They also do fine in our desert conditions with sensible maintenance but they haven't tested ruthless cold-weather reliability due to our geographic location.


Thank you for posting this. I could have sworn I read somewhere in the last year or so that JSOC was using PredatAR 762's, but my searches came up empty so I didn't say anything. At least I know my memory isn't completely gone.

[Brian T]

I will make mention of Lone Star Armory in Ft Worth. I will also mention that they are close friends of mine. Andrew, the president of the company, spent time in Alaska while serving with USA. He did quite a bit of treking and hunting up that-a-ways, so he is quite familiar wit how things are up there. Maybe give him a call, and tell him where you're at, what you're looking for, your concerns, etc. I know he can tailor one to your standards.

lonestararmory.us

(817)-531-2807

[GJM]

I am starting to wonder whether I should reconsider the SCAR 17, as there doesn’t seem to be a perfect alternative available now.

[Amurr]

I am very much enamored with the new Wilson Ranger series.

[Grey]

I am starting to wonder whether I should reconsider the SCAR 17, as there doesn’t seem to be a perfect alternative available now.I would convert the stock to use the ACR folder or the new KRG stock (I assume it will work since its for the ACR) and see if that fixes your cheek weld.

If you still dont like it i doubt you'll lose money since its a desirable modification.

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[GJM]

I would convert the stock to use the ACR folder or the new KRG stock (I assume it will work since its for the ACR) and see if that fixes your cheek weld.

If you still dont like it i doubt you'll lose money since its a desirable modification.

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This it?

https://www.primaryarms.com/kinetic-development-group-sas-adaptable-acr-e-stock-for-fn-scar-rifles-magpul-brown

[Grey]

This it?

https://www.primaryarms.com/kinetic-development-group-sas-adaptable-acr-e-stock-for-fn-scar-rifles-magpul-brownYes that is the ACR stock. I think you can also get just the hinge if you wanted the KRG stock.

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[TCFD273]

I am starting to wonder whether I should reconsider the SCAR 17, as there doesn’t seem to be a perfect alternative available now.

The only issue I’ve seen with the SCAR is it’s very hard on optics.


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[El Cid]

I am starting to wonder whether I should reconsider the SCAR 17, as there doesn’t seem to be a perfect alternative available now.

Does it still beat optics to death? I ask because I know how much you shoot.

[Hizzie]

Only folks I know with them have a vested interest in keeping advertisers happy. The guns are very reliable, but 2-3MOA at best.


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I’ll have to take your word for it. My buddy owns two but they are for R&D. He hasn’t shot them for groups.

[Sigfan26]

I’ll have to take your word for it. My buddy owns two but they are for R&D. He hasn’t shot them for groups.

They are not bad rifles. They are immensely reliable and durable. But, accuracy wise, very similar to an FAL.

[GJM]

The only issue I’ve seen with the SCAR is it’s very hard on optics.


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I assume a NF 1-8 or Swaro 1-6 would hold up to a modest amount of sight in and proficiency shooting, with most rounds shot with an Aimpoint?

[Grey]

I assume a NF 1-8 or Swaro 1-6 would hold up to a modest amount of sight in and proficiency shooting, with most rounds shot with an Aimpoint?Id definitely go look at what optics the SCAR has eaten. Maybe even call FN and ask for their opinion?

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[HCM]

The only issue I’ve seen with the SCAR is it’s very hard on optics.


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Is that from pesonal experence or ancedotal ?

I've had no issues. I've run a Comp M4, an ACOG and currently a TR-24 1-4, all of which are tough optics and have been properly mounted to address recoil.

I recall SeanM did a tour overseas with a SCAR H wearing a regular, commercial Leupold VX-6 without issues as well.

I suspect at least some of the "eats optics" reputation is the result of pre recall EO-Techs and / or optics mounting issues.

[TCFD273]

Is that from pesonal experence or ancedotal ?

I've had no issues. I've run a Comp M4, an ACOG and currently a TR-24 1-4, all of which are tough optics and have been properly mounted to address recoil.

I recall SeanM did a tour overseas with a SCAR H wearing a regular, commercial Leupold VX-6 without issues as well.

I suspect at least some of the "eats optics" reputation is the result of pre recall EO-Techs and / or optics mounting issues.

I‘ve never owned a scar. When I was heavy into PRS, one of my mentors/training partners had one (still does), it chewed through an Elcan and a 1x4 (do not recall the brand).

I can’t speak to the mounting system he used for the 1-4, I do not recall the brand.

I personally would not choose a SCAR to hunt out to 400yds.

The HK is more accurate, and by most accounts just as reliable as the SCAR. I just wouldn’t want to hump a 12lb gun in the mountains. Been there, done that, never doing it again if I have a choice.


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[Default.mp3]

I recall SeanM did a tour overseas with a SCAR H wearing a regular, commercial Leupold VX-6 without issues as well.


Sitting at DFW, so this will be short. I will start a "SCAR observations" topic when I get home tonight, or sometime this weekend that will hopefully be useful to some. I might even include pictures!

The only optic that might be suspect is the ACOG. I don't know when they beefed up their stuff, or what models, etc. I don't keep up with nomenclature so it is tough to say for sure. If it is recent manufacture, say within the last 2-3 years it will likely do just fine. The rest you mentioned are not cheaply made crap optics so they will not suffer the same indignity the junk optics did.

FWIW I ran a 1.5-5x20 Leupold Mk something or other for about 16 months on my first 17, and it didn't have any issues. It was not the super beefy Mil model, just a regular old Leupold. I'll address this issue in more detail later but for now......things NOT to put on your 17s are:

EOTech(which you shouldn't put an a serious gun anyway)
Bushnell/Tasco quality magnified optics.
Early Gen ACOGs
Early Gen Elcan SpectreDR
Lasers. I found that side mounting the laser did help to prolong the useful life, but these were MilSpec. The majority of commercially available lasers are not going to like being on the 17.

There are the CAR hardened electro optics that I believe SOCOM has, so it's certainly a real issue, just a question of how much of an issue.

[TCFD273]

I assume a NF 1-8 or Swaro 1-6 would hold up to a modest amount of sight in and proficiency shooting, with most rounds shot with an Aimpoint?

I think an aimpoint would be fine on a SCAR

What kind of accuracy are you getting with your SCAR at 300yds?

People throw out MOA numbers, but are almost always talking about at 100yds. Just bc you and your gun can shoot 1moa at 100, does not equate to a 5” group at 500.


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[Default.mp3]

What kind of accuracy are you getting with your SCAR at 300yds?

People throw out MOA numbers, but are almost always talking about at 100yds. Just bc you and your gun can shoot 1moa at 100, does not equate to a 5” group at 500I will say that I've heard a couple of credible reports of sub-MOA SCARs right out the box at 1000 yards, during government testing.

[HCM]

I‘ve never owned a scar. When I was heavy into PRS, one of my mentors/training partners had one (still does), it chewed through an Elcan and a 1x4 (do not recall the brand).

I can’t speak to the mounting system he used for the 1-4, I do not recall the brand.

I personally would not choose a SCAR to hunt out to 400yds.

The HK is more accurate, and by most accounts just as reliable as the SCAR. I just wouldn’t want to hump a 12lb gun in the mountains. Been there, done that, never doing it again if I have a choice.


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The HK may well be more accurate but the SCAR is surprisingly accurate, especially with ammo it favors. I've gotten 1-2 MOA depending on ammo at 100 and it will reliably ring 8' steel at 300 if I do my part. I does favor ligher bullets, 155 grain match seems to shoot better the 168 and 175. The prefernce for lighter bullets may limit it's utilty for hunting.

The SCAR starts out light for a battle rifle. certainly lighter than the MR762. After that it depends on how much you load onto it.

[Ed L]

I assume a NF 1-8 or Swaro 1-6 would hold up to a modest amount of sight in and proficiency shooting, with most rounds shot with an Aimpoint?

From what I have heard, the Nightforce should do okay, but the Swaro might have problems.

[TCFD273]

The HK may well be more accurate but the SCAR is surprisingly accurate, especially with ammo it favors. I've gotten 1-2 MOA depending on ammo at 100 and it will reliably ring 8' steel at 300 if I do my part. I does favor ligher bullets, 155 grain match seems to shoot better the 168 and 175. The prefernce for lighter bullets may limit it's utilty for hunting.

The SCAR starts out light for a battle rifle. certainly lighter than the MR762. After that it depends on how much you load onto it.

A 2 moa (5, 5 shot groups. No discounting flyers, it is what it is) gas gun with factory ammo is usually a 3 moa gun at distance. So 300yds=9”, 400=12” and so on.

Now add in terrain, wind, not able to shoot from the prone, elevated heart rate...and it gets worse.

I think the SCAR is probably the best battle rifle currently available to citizens. But, it wouldn’t be my choice for deer at 400yds.

If it’s yours, awesome. Keep on keeping on.

I mentioned earlier in this thread, I’ve seen 2 Elk taken with a WC 308, both shots inside 300yds. The gun is light, and very accurate.


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[Bigghoss]

I will make mention of Lone Star Armory in Ft Worth. I will also mention that they are close friends of mine. Andrew, the president of the company, spent time in Alaska while serving with USA. He did quite a bit of treking and hunting up that-a-ways, so he is quite familiar wit how things are up there. Maybe give him a call, and tell him where you're at, what you're looking for, your concerns, etc. I know he can tailor one to your standards.

lonestararmory.us

(817)-531-2807


There's a guy I watch on Youtube that has a TX10 in 6.5 from Lone Star Armory that he uses for pig hunting in Texas that he loves. But he hasn't had it long or run it hard I don't think.

[Poconnor]

I always thought Shuffs M1 Garand mini g in .35 whelen would be a good bear gun. I realize it’s not a 400 yard deer gun and a benelli M2 would be just as good

[Sensei]

I will say that I've heard a couple of credible reports of sub-MOA SCARs right out the box at 1000 yards, during government testing.

Here is 5 rounds of 77 grain Sierra OTM at 100 yards:

31837

From this gun (14” SBR, stock trigger) shot with KAC can from front and rear sandbags:
31838

That is the only photo that I had on hand, but I’ve put 10 rounds of the same ammo in a 0.85 MOA group. My 16” SCAR17 returns similar performance from 168 grain FGMM using a NF 3.5-15X F1.

[GJM]

I think an aimpoint would be fine on a SCAR

What kind of accuracy are you getting with your SCAR at 300yds?

People throw out MOA numbers, but are almost always talking about at 100yds. Just bc you and your gun can shoot 1moa at 100, does not equate to a 5” group at 500.


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I have a pair of SCAR H rifles. I shot both at 100 yards, got five shots groups around an inch, set the zero two inches high and haven’t shot them on paper further, as their purpose was close range stuff. They have done a good job on further steel, but I would describe their long range accuracy as minute of gong.

I had a productive conversation with Bill Wilson tonight, and may be doing an 18 inch .308 to Bill’s specs. Slightly lightened bolt, but not so much as to effect reliability. Fixed gas block, threaded barrel with cap to protect the crown, barrel taper appropriate to the mission.

Since there is a 300 yard range ten minutes away, where I shoot pistols this time of year, I will probably work with the WC and H, and see how things shake out.

[TCFD273]

Here is 5 rounds of 77 grain Sierra OTM at 100 yards:

31837

From this gun (14” SBR, stock trigger) shot with KAC can from front and rear sandbags:
31838

That is the only photo that I had on hand, but I’ve put 10 rounds of the same ammo in a 0.85 MOA group. My 16” SCAR17 returns similar performance from 168 grain FGMM using a NF 3.5-15X F1.

Shooting 1 moa or sub moa at 100 shows the potential of the rifle and shooter, but by no means equates to moa at distance. I have put many rounds in a 1/2 moa group at 100 that had 50-60fps difference in velocity.

Since I have quite a bit of time behind 16” 308 gas guns.

Let’s looks at a 1 moa 16” barrel 308 at 1000yds. Let’s say it shoots factory loaded 175 grain SMK’s at 1 moa at 100. With an SD of 15 at 1000yds you will have 12” of vertical stringing. And I’m being generous and not taking into consideration how poorly 308’s do in the transonic range.

Now, because 308’s suck in the wind, let’s say you called a 3mph wind, but its actually 4mph. You now have 7” of horizontal spread to go along with the 12” of vertical stringing. 1moa claims at 1k with a 308 and a 16” barrel are pretty bold.

Before magneto speeds and lab radars, we shot ladder tests at 3 or 400 yards to find vertical stringing. Now, with experience, you can shoot into a dirt berm 10yds in front of you for load development.





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[TCFD273]

I have a pair of SCAR H rifles. I shot both at 100 yards, got five shots groups around an inch, set the zero two inches high and haven’t shot them on paper further, as their purpose was close range stuff. They have done a good job on further steel, but I would describe their long range accuracy as minute of gong.

I had a productive conversation with Bill Wilson tonight, and may be doing an 18 inch .308 to Bill’s specs. Slightly lightened bolt, but not so much as to effect reliability. Fixed gas block, threaded barrel with cap to protect the crown, barrel taper appropriate to the mission.

Since there is a 300 yard range ten minutes away, where I shoot pistols this time of year, I will probably work with the WC and H, and see how things shake out.

That’s awesome. I’m definitely interested to see the results. Under favorable conditions, I’d be pleased with 4.5” or under at 300 with a gas gun.




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[GJM]

Thoughts on barrel length — 16 vs 18, and threaded/bird cage/comp?

[TCFD273]

Thoughts on barrel length — 16 vs 18, and threaded/bird cage/comp?

18”, threaded, if you hunt with ear pro I’d go with a surefire Warcomp.


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[Grey]

Seekins and JP might be worth a look too. Both have a solid rep in the precision rifle community.

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[Default.mp3]

1moa claims at 1k with a 308 and a 16” barrel are pretty bold.

The accuracy of the SCAR was noted during testing of newly modifed guns in late 2008. It was then pondered if it could be built to a precision rifle standard of accuracy. In early 2009, the organization sponsoring the development of the system held a two week test of the Mk16 and Mk17 versus the Mk12 and Mk11 respectively. During this testing, both service grade, off the rack SCAR's roundly trounced the existing precision rifles they were competing against. I witnessed a 9.275" group fired from one thousand yards out of a Mk17, stock, no upgraded triggers, or anything else. Gun came out of the box, scope was mounted and off it went to the range.

It was from this testing that the Mk20 precision SCAR was developed. The accuracy was there before the "accurized" versions began to appear. I'm sure much of that went away as the gun started to become mass produced. Still, I get sub-MOA accuracy out to about 350 where it starts to open up to about 2.5 minutes from my gun shooting Mk316 long range ammunition. Federal Gold Medal Match can only do about 2 minutes out of most guns I have tried with it.I did conflate another source, which was speaking of the SSR getting multiple sub-MOA groups at 1000 yards, but that's a fairly different beast compared to the stock SCAR 17.

[TCFD273]

I did conflate another source, which was speaking of the SSR getting multiple sub-MOA groups at 1000 yards, but that's a fairly different beast compared to the stock SCAR 17.

I’m not saying it can’t or didn’t happen, but as I tried to illustrate above, there’s ALOT more to it than just the gun.

Gun, shooter, ammo and conditions all come into play.

Off the top of my head, I think the record right now is 3.5” group at 1k with a benchrest gun chambered in a 6mm variant.


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[shane45]

In the class of rifle your looking at and at the distances your proposing, I think 16 would be just fine. In the world of higher end barrels on these high end 308's there just doesn't seem to be much of a velocity difference between 16 and 18. My 16" OBR has clocked faster than other peoples 18" barrels. So why carry any extra weight?

TCF, I think you might be getting a little into the weeds. The op doesnt seem like he is chasing 1k moa from a gasser. As im sure you know, the shooter is going to be the biggest factor behind a gas gun for that endeavor. Since his gig is hunting, I think the focus would be on the most consistent CBS.

[TCFD273]

TCF, I think you might be getting a little into the weeds. The op doesnt seem like he is chasing 1k moa from a gasser. As im sure you know, the shooter is going to be the biggest factor behind a gas gun for that endeavor. Since his gig is hunting, I think the focus would be on the most consistent CBS.

I’d agree, but I was addressing 2 other posters claims of sub moa SCAR 17’s.

I chose the longer barrel bc I found the 16” to be obnoxious on long range days, and if we aren’t clearing rooms, no need to pick a shorter barrel....within reason.

That being said, I’ve seen great reports on 16” & 18” Creeds. So I could be biased.


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[littlejerry]

I’d agree, but I was addressing 2 other posters claims of sub moa SCAR 17’s.

I chose the longer barrel bc I found the 16” to be obnoxious on long range days, and if we aren’t clearing rooms, no need to pick a shorter barrel....within reason.

That being said, I’ve seen great reports on 16” & 18” Creeds. So I could be biased.


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I'm curious to see some gas gun MV numbers for 6.5 Creed. Pretty easy to find 24" examples, but I haven't seen any 16 or 18" numbers. Also curious if the muzzle blast on a 16" Creed is as bad as .308

[GJM]

Email from Bill Wilson:

I still think you should consider a .338 Fed

.308 Win with 165gr Hornady SST
100yds +1.9"
200yds 0
300yds -8.9"
400yds -26.2"

.338 Fed with 200gr SST
100yds +1.9"
200yds 0
300yds -9.1"
400yds -26.8"

[Grey]

Email from Bill Wilson:

I still think you should consider a .338 Fed

.308 Win with 165gr Hornady SST
100yds +1.9"
200yds 0
300yds -8.9"
400yds -26.2"

.338 Fed with 200gr SST
100yds +1.9"
200yds 0
300yds -9.1"
400yds -26.8"Think about the new 8.6CM that is coming. Better than 338 fed from what I read. Zero experience with either.

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[TCFD273]

I'm curious to see some gas gun MV numbers for 6.5 Creed. Pretty easy to find 24" examples, but I haven't seen any 16 or 18" numbers. Also curious if the muzzle blast on a 16" Creed is as bad as .308

I’ve only seen bolt gun numbers for 16’s and 18’s. Best guess would be low 2400 into 2300fps.

Gas guns can’t run the higher pressures that bolt guns can.

I get 2745 out of my 22”, with an SD of 7.


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[P.E. Kelley]

I must be doing a crappy job as a Savage Brand Ambassador....not a one of you
made mention of the Savage MSR10! 6CM, 6.5CM, 308 and 338 Fed.

Solid performer, damn reliable, shorter and lighter than the "standard" AR10.

Long range models and Hunter units too.

I played a small role in getting these things right...and they are.

[ranger]

Email from Bill Wilson:

I still think you should consider a .338 Fed

.308 Win with 165gr Hornady SST
100yds +1.9"
200yds 0
300yds -8.9"
400yds -26.2"

.338 Fed with 200gr SST
100yds +1.9"
200yds 0
300yds -9.1"
400yds -26.8"

There is a used Tikka for sale in Atlanta in 338 Federal - I started researching 338 Federal and was impressed/interested.

[OlongJohnson]

SSTs should work well at .338 Federal speeds. My understanding is they may be a little low on weight retention and penetration if launched at .338 Win Mag velocities.

[Doc_Glock]

So what is better for brown bear defense at close range: semi auto .308 or semi auto shotgun with slugs?

I understand the rifle allows for taking other game at much further distances. But I am not sure it is inferior to the shotgun up close.

[El Cid]

Email from Bill Wilson:

I still think you should consider a .338 Fed

.308 Win with 165gr Hornady SST
100yds +1.9"
200yds 0
300yds -8.9"
400yds -26.2"

.338 Fed with 200gr SST
100yds +1.9"
200yds 0
300yds -9.1"
400yds -26.8"

I don’t hunt things with 4 legs so I don’t know... how available will ammo be in 338 or these other calibers being discussed? In Alaska?

While .308 may not be the best for killing or long distance shooting - it works just fine and I know I can find it in just about any store that sells ammo or hunting supplies.

[GJM]

So what is better for brown bear defense at close range: semi auto .308 or semi auto shotgun with slugs?

I understand the rifle allows for taking other game at much further distances. But I am not sure it is inferior to the shotgun up close.

Depends on whether you have one bear or three. I would take the 14 inch Benelli with Brenneke slugs on any one bear, and the semi-auto .308 on three bears. Two bears, that is a toss up.


I don’t hunt things with 4 legs so I don’t know... how available will ammo be in 338 or these other calibers being discussed? In Alaska?

While .308 may not be the best for killing or long distance shooting - it works just fine and I know I can find it in just about any store that sells ammo or hunting supplies.

.308 is way more available, both in what I have, what my friends have, and what is generally available. The .338 Federal becomes interesting if you want to hunt animals larger than deer, as opposed to harvest deer and defend against bears. My plan is to start with a .308 to evaluate how the concept generally and the Wilson specifically, works for me, and consider a .338 Federal upper based on what I learn. .308 will allow me to do a lot more practicing and evaluating, just as I do with .223 vs .300 BLK.

[SteveB]

Depends on whether you have one bear or three. I would take the 14 inch Benelli with Brenneke slugs on any one bear, and the semi-auto .308 on three bears. Two bears, that is a toss up.

This is why you have a wife.

[UNK]

I don't have any experience with them but what about the PWS mk2? They are available in 308 and 6.5 creedmore. They have to be at least 3rd gen by now.

[Grey]

I don't have any experience with them but what about the PWS mk2? They are available in 308 and 6.5 creedmore. They have to be at least 3rd gen by now.PWS makes good stuff, though for a large frame AR I would go with a different manufacturer.

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[GJM]

Wilson rifle shipping this afternoon.

[Doc_Glock]

Wilson rifle shipping this afternoon.

Is this it? If so, which variant?

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/308-rifles/

[GJM]

Is this it? If so, which variant?

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/308-rifles/

Won’t know until it arrives. This is how it works. I call Bill, tell him what I am wanting to do, he thinks on it, talks to his guys, and then something appears.

[Doc_Glock]

The Ultralight Hunter looks like just what you were wanting in the OP assuming reliability.

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/ultralight-hunter/

[Grey]

Won’t know until it arrives. This is how it works. I call Bill, tell him what I am wanting to do, he thinks on it, talks to his guys, and then something appears.

Man if only we all could do that :) Looking forward to you wringing it out when it shows up!

[5pins]

Won’t know until it arrives. This is how it works. I call Bill, tell him what I am wanting to do, he thinks on it, talks to his guys, and then something appears.

Kind of like a gun ferry.

[HCM]

Won’t know until it arrives. This is how it works. I call Bill, tell him what I am wanting to do, he thinks on it, talks to his guys, and then something appears.

Bespoke Guns.

[texasaggie2005]

Kind of like a gun ferry.

I wish I could afford a gun fairy like Bill Wilson.

[GJM]

The Ultralight Hunter looks like just what you were wanting in the OP assuming reliability.

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/ultralight-hunter/


I know a little more than I let on, but it is quite a bit different. Lightest taper 16.25 .308 barrel they have that will still shoot good groups as it warms up, threaded, 1-11 something twist so it will shoot a range of hunting bullets as opposed to being optimized for the 175s, Rogers stock for now not the carbon fiber thing, bolt slightly lightened but favoring durability/reliability, 3.5 pound trigger so not too light with gloves in inclement conditions, black/green CQB color scheme. I was thinking of running my Swaro 1-6 to start off.

Probably a bipolar for assessing accuracy — do I want an Atlas, Magpul or something else? Bill really likes the 165 Hornady SST bullets as he says they knock the crap out of hogs.

[Shawn Dodson]

I built my .308 AR for hunting. The only components I chose to save weight are a Faxon 20" Big Gunner barrel and a Magpul ACS-L buttstock. It weighs 7 1/4 pounds without the optic. I used Aero Precision receivers. It cost me about $750 to put together. I installed a Precision Armament M11 Extreme Duty muzzle brake and I have virtually zero recoil.

[Sensei]

I know a little more than I let on, but it is quite a bit different. Lightest taper 16.25 .308 barrel they have that will still shoot good groups as it warms up, threaded, 1-11 something twist so it will shoot a range of hunting bullets as opposed to being optimized for the 175s, Rogers stock for now not the carbon fiber thing, bolt slightly lightened but favoring durability/reliability, 3.5 pound trigger so not too light with gloves in inclement conditions, black/green CQB color scheme. I was thinking of running my Swaro 1-6 to start off.

Probably a bipolar for assessing accuracy — do I want an Atlas, Magpul or something else? Bill really likes the 165 Hornady SST bullets as he says they knock the crap out of hogs.

Personally, I think the Atlas PSR is an excellent bipod for most situations involving .223-.300 caliber applications that involve shooting from a variety of surfaces.

As for optics, a year ago I would have agreed with you on the Swaro. Today, I suggest that you get behind a NF ACTAR 1-8X before finalizing that decision.

[GJM]

Personally, I think the Atlas PSR is an excellent bipod for most situations involving .223-.300 caliber applications that involve shooting from a variety of surfaces.

As for optics, a year ago I would have agreed with you on the Swaro. Today, I suggest that you get behind a NF ACTAR 1-8X before finalizing that decision.

Would like to see the NF, but the Swaro is on a Tikka .308 that I am not using.

[TCFD273]

I know a little more than I let on, but it is quite a bit different. Lightest taper 16.25 .308 barrel they have that will still shoot good groups as it warms up, threaded, 1-11 something twist so it will shoot a range of hunting bullets as opposed to being optimized for the 175s, Rogers stock for now not the carbon fiber thing, bolt slightly lightened but favoring durability/reliability, 3.5 pound trigger so not too light with gloves in inclement conditions, black/green CQB color scheme. I was thinking of running my Swaro 1-6 to start off.

Probably a bipolar for assessing accuracy — do I want an Atlas, Magpul or something else? Bill really likes the 165 Hornady SST bullets as he says they knock the crap out of hogs.

I’d go Magpul.

I can attest to the SST’s effectiveness, but I’ve never used them past 175yds.


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[DocGKR]

These days I strongly prefer a 1/8 or faster twist for .308, especially with shorter barrels.

[littlejerry]

I built my .308 AR for hunting. The only components I chose to save weight are a Faxon 20" Big Gunner barrel and a Magpul ACS-L buttstock. It weighs 7 1/4 pounds without the optic. I used Aero Precision receivers. It cost me about $750 to put together. I installed a Precision Armament M11 Extreme Duty muzzle brake and I have virtually zero recoil.

Wait, what? I was under the impression that to hit 7.5 lbs you needed a 16" pencil profile, a lightened bolt, and minimalist furniture/rail.

7lbs is not uncommon for a small frame AR15 that wasn't built to be light weight.

[Shawn Dodson]

The heaviest components in my rifle are the barrel, Toolcraft NiB BCG, and H3 carbine buffer (with Vltor A5 receiver extension and Armalite AR-10 rifle buffer spring). It weighs in at exactly 7 1/4 lbs (surprised the shit outta me too). (Handguard is the Diamondhead 13.5" VRS T-308 keymod, adjustable gas block is SLR Rifleworks Sentry 7 clamp-on.)

[Duces Tecum]

I wish I could afford a gun fairy like Bill Wilson.

I like to think Bill's grateful to have a beta-tester like George. We'll probably see this as a stock item next year.

[GJM]

I like to think Bill's grateful to have a beta-tester like George. We'll probably see this as a stock item next year.

I appreciate Bill taking an interest in this. Look forward to shooting it soon, and got a Magpul bipod for my 300 yard group shooting. I have an Omega suppressor — would that be appropriate for group shooting, or add too much of a variable?

[TCFD273]

I appreciate Bill taking an interest in this. Look forward to shooting it soon, and got a Magpul bipod for my 300 yard group shooting. I have an Omega suppressor — would that be appropriate for group shooting, or add too much of a variable?

I have no experience with the Omega, but I would zero and shoot for groups without it initially. The less variables the better.


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[Spartan1980]

Probably out of your weight and price points, but have you seen this?

http://nemoarms.com/rifles/omen-recon

[shane45]

I have no first hand experience but I looked at these platforms and that led me believe the reputation is rather spotty.

[Jaywalker]

Did you ever consider the Amish Machine Gun, the Remington slide action 760/7600 in 30-06? While accurate, it wouldn't be as fast as a gas gun, nor as durable, so maybe the question is already answered.

[GJM]

Did you ever consider the Amish Machine Gun, the Remington slide action 760/7600 in 30-06? While accurate, it wouldn't be as fast as a gas gun, nor as durable, so maybe the question is already answered.

About twenty years ago, I had Jim Brockman tart up a shorter barrel Remington .06 pump. It shot well at 100, fell completely apart at 200 yards, and never struck me as very durable or reliable.

Back then, a country guy from Maine, who hit the lottery would buy a Remington semi auto, and install a 4-14 Tasco or equivalent in high see through rings to chase deer in the thick cover.

[GJM]

Package from Wilson Combat arrived.

32085

32086

Hope to shoot it tomorrow!

[shane45]

She's a sexy beast. Look forward to hearing how she runs!

[GJM]

For just dumb reasons, haven't had a chance to shoot the Wilson yet. Today, even though it was blowing 35+, we decided to shoot it at the end of our practice session.

TPC says that controlling recoil with the carbine is, in this order, stance, grip, muzzle device, then lightened bolts and other minutia. I handed my wife the Wilson .308, and didn't say anything other than shoot it. Initially, it pushed her back as she was expecting 5.56 AR recoil, and then after getting her stance more aggressive with her foot back and weight forward, she was able to control it much better.

The gun functioned just fine, recoil was about what you would expect out of a 7 pound .308, but it was too windy to shoot groups at distance.


https://youtu.be/TR6gYrlOu3o

[TCFD273]

For just dumb reasons, haven't had a chance to shoot the Wilson yet. Today, even though it was blowing 35+, we decided to shoot it at the end of our practice session.

TPC says that controlling recoil with the carbine is, in this order, stance, grip, muzzle device, then lightened bolts and other minutia. I handed my wife the Wilson .308, and didn't say anything other than shoot it. Initially, it pushed her back as she was expecting 5.56 AR recoil, and then after getting her stance more aggressive with her foot back and weight forward, she was able to control it much better.

The gun functioned just fine, recoil was about what you would expect out of a 7 pound .308, but it was too windy to shoot groups at distance.


https://youtu.be/TR6gYrlOu3o

I’m glad the gun is running well so far.

A Warcomp timed correctly will take the 2’oclock muzzle rise out and make it track vertical. I do not find it to be obnoxious like most compensating devices. Unfortunately it wouldn’t be timed correctly for your wife.


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[okie john]

Won’t know until it arrives. This is how it works. I call Bill, tell him what I am wanting to do, he thinks on it, talks to his guys, and then something appears.

This is by far the best approach to ordering a custom rifle.


Okie John

[okie john]

Except for special circumstances, like stalking animals, or certain cover in bear country, we have historically been empty chamber in shotguns, lever and bolt guns when in the field. The AR does not seem conducive to quickly chambering or to multiple chambering/unchambering cycles with the same round, so we will have to consider this.

I’ve humped M-16s of one flavor or another more miles than I care to count, always in Condition One. I’d go that route. I understand if that makes you hesitant—I knew plenty of guys who would let me patrol behind them with a belt-fed MG in Condition One but would flip out if I showed up with a cocked-and-locked 1911 or BHP.


Okie John

[GJM]

Making progress:

32997

[GJM]

I’ve humped M-16s of one flavor or another more miles than I care to count, always in Condition One. I’d go that route. I understand if that makes you hesitant—I knew plenty of guys who would let me patrol behind them with a belt-fed MG in Condition One but would flip out if I showed up with a cocked-and-locked 1911 or BHP.


Okie John


Just focused on the quote in your Sig line:

“The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard“

I had the distinct honor to know Finn, and at a Jeff Cooper Whittington reunion, break two successive thrown clay pigeons with Finn’s Mauser .30-06 rifle. Probably couldn’t repeat it no matter how hard I tried.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Just focused on the quote in your Sig line:

“The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard“

I had the distinct honor to know Finn, and at a Jeff Cooper Whittington reunion, break two successive thrown clay pigeons with Finn’s Mauser .30-06 rifle. Probably couldn’t repeat it no matter how hard I tried.

I thoroughly enjoyed his writing, and would loved to have been able to sit and converse with him.

[BobM]

Just focused on the quote in your Sig line:

“The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard“

I had the distinct honor to know Finn, and at a Jeff Cooper Whittington reunion, break two successive thrown clay pigeons with Finn’s Mauser .30-06 rifle. Probably couldn’t repeat it no matter how hard I tried.

I've long thought Finn Aagard was one of the very best of the outdoor writers.

[Chuck Whitlock]

His views on CCW were very down to earth as well.

[StraitR]

Making progress:

32997

Looks fantastic G. I do love that Wilson green. The Swaro seems to be perfect in this role as well. Curious, given the popularity of having iron sights in the Scout Rifle thread, and also how prolific they are on dangerous game rifles, do you plan to run any BUIS on this? The Magpul MBUS set weighs a combined 2.5oz, so they can be had with little weight penalty.

[GJM]

Looks fantastic G. I do love that Wilson green. The Swaro seems to be perfect in this role as well. Curious, given the popularity of having iron sights in the Scout Rifle thread, and also how prolific they are on dangerous game rifles, do you plan to run any BUIS on this? The Magpul MBUS set weighs a combined 2.5oz, so they can be had with little weight penalty.

Yes on BUIS, just haven’t gotten that far yet, as only got Swaro on today and still have not zeroed it. Maybe a T2 too, for when the rifle is in more defense mode, like when an animal is harvested and we are packing meat.

[StraitR]

Yes on BUIS, just haven’t gotten that far yet, as only got Swaro on today and still have not zeroed it. Maybe a T2 too, for when the rifle is in more defense mode, like when an animal is harvested and we are packing meat.

Given the ease of mounting and available lightweight BUIS sets, I would install some too if I were using the gun for defense against a multiple angry bear attack. :)

I've not peeked through the Swaro 1-6 before. Vision being the subjective and personal thing it is, do you find the T2 noticeably better for you than the Swaro on 1x?

[GJM]

Given the ease of mounting and available lightweight BUIS sets, I would install some too if I were using the gun for defense against a multiple angry bear attack. :)

I've not peeked through the Swaro 1-6 before. Vision being the subjective and personal thing it is, do you find the T2 noticeably better for you than the Swaro on 1x?

The appeal is lighter weight.

[El Cid]

Given the ease of mounting and available lightweight BUIS sets, I would install some too if I were using the gun for defense against a multiple angry bear attack. :)

I've not peeked through the Swaro 1-6 before. Vision being the subjective and personal thing it is, do you find the T2 noticeably better for you than the Swaro on 1x?

I got the impression GJM was talking about the micro as a backup instead of irons.

I spent half a day in a class with a T-1 and switched rifles in the afternoon to a Z6i 1-6. The Swarovski felt like cheating! It was like poking through a huge window and my times were faster even though the optic and rifle were heavier. The FOV on them is insane.

[okie john]

Just focused on the quote in your Sig line:

“The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard“

I had the distinct honor to know Finn, and at a Jeff Cooper Whittington reunion, break two successive thrown clay pigeons with Finn’s Mauser .30-06 rifle. Probably couldn’t repeat it no matter how hard I tried.

The Mauser 30-06 you mention may be the one he described in "A Professional Rifle." My favorite thing about it is that it was cheap--you could probably build an exact replica for under $1k even today. He updated the build sheet to accept stainless the Model 70 in "A Professional's Rifle Revisited," and the 30-06 Model 70 that I've posted about here several times is built to that specific pattern.


Okie John

[GJM]

The Mauser 30-06 you mention may be the one he described in "A Professional Rifle." My favorite thing about it is that it was cheap--you could probably build an exact replica for under $1k even today. He updated the build sheet to accept stainless the Model 70 in "A Professional's Rifle Revisited," and the 30-06 Model 70 that I've posted about here several times is built to that specific pattern.


Okie John

His rifle I shot had a Leupold 1.75-6, if there is a picture of it in his book.

[GJM]

I got the impression GJM was talking about the micro as a backup instead of irons.

I spent half a day in a class with a T-1 and switched rifles in the afternoon to a Z6i 1-6. The Swarovski felt like cheating! It was like poking through a huge window and my times were faster even though the optic and rifle were heavier. The FOV on them is insane.

Actually, I plan BUIS like the Troy ones that solidly lock up, in case you get one of those weather days when it is raining or blizzarding.

[okie john]

His rifle I shot had a Leupold 1.75-6, if there is a picture of it in his book.

I believe that's the one. The scope was in Redfield rings and bases, with a quick-release lever and base that had a little peep sight built into it.


Okie John

[El Cid]

Actually, I plan BUIS like the Troy ones that solidly lock up, in case you get one of those weather days when it is raining or blizzarding.

Angled or traditional? I have the same ADM mount and Z6i and the traditional will fold under the glass.

[GJM]

https://barrett.net/firearms/rec10