Sig M11-A1 Compact vs M11-A1 ARMY Compact

[Duces Tecum]

Two questions, please:

1. What is the current state of Sig P-series quality?

2. If "good or better" to Q-1, what is the difference between the two models noted in thread title?

Thank you for your response.

[TGS]

1. What is the current state of Sig P-series quality?

I think this is a good, fairly recent thread to read through. While there's some disagreement over what the conclusion should be, I personally think there's plenty of corroborating numbers to draw a conclusion:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?31611-P229r

Whether that applies to the M11 might be a separate issue.....who knows, they could be a gem in the bunch that hasn't been affected.

[L-2]

M11-A1 "Army": https://www.sigsauer.com/store/m11-a1-army-compact.html

M11-A1: https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p229-m11-a1-compact.html

1. I agree. Read the referenced thread discussing various folks' recent experience with their "P-series" SIGs. I trust my three SIGs: a P229R "legacy"; a P226R w/long extractor; and an old p225. I did need to change my P226R's two extractor springs early-on, but after that the gun consistently extracted reliably. My "newer" P226R and P229R guns were made in 2012 and 2013 and I wouldn't consider them "current". They're just the newest SIGs out of my three and the three SIGs I've got are the only SIGs in my little, limited experience.

2. I referenced the two models listed in the thread title and didn't even know about the "Army" version. Anyone can reference these webpages as I did. I didn't study the pages in-depth, but at a glance, it appears the "Army" version has a green-colored frame and lists for $55 more. I didn't even know the "Army" version existed.

It seems to me, at any time, SIG will come out with a model variant, in this case one with a green-colored-frame. Whether this is good business or not can be debated/discussed, but only SIG will know for sure and based upon its internal knowledge of its sales numbers.

I actually considered an M11-A1 when I bought my P229R. The factors which led me to my P229R were:
-my local dealers didn't have an M11-A1 in stock for me to examine.
-as I recall, pricing on my P229R "Legacy" model was less (I don't remember how much but it might have been ~$100).
-the M11-A1 was using the later version of SIG's 9mm mags (the P229-1 aka "E2" mags) which are slightly larger and won't fit in the older P228 and P229 guns.
-my P229R "Legacy" had the short extractor which I wanted as I didn't yet trust the long extractor since I already had to replace those two extractor springs in my P226R. By now, I read of some other owners' complaints about their long extractor guns. I probably just had an out-of-spec spring or two as my long extractor SIG has worked fine for thousands of rounds ever since.

Again, I've got very limited SIG experience.

[Sensei]

Two questions, please:

1. What is the current state of Sig P-series quality?

2. If "good or better" to Q-1, what is the difference between the two models noted in thread title?

Thank you for your response.

1. My personal opinion is that the P-series in 9mm flavors is GTG

2. The only difference in the M11-A1 and the “Army” special run model is the green anodized frame.

Of note, the M11-A1 is NOT synonymous with M11. The M11-A1 is Sig’s attempted to make a P229 look like a M11/P228. However, the M11/P228 as issued by the military has a folded sheet metal slide and the P229 has a CNC machined stainless steel slide that is designed withstand the 40SW/357Sig recoil. Thus, the P229 is about an 1.5 ounces heavier. The P229s slide is also a single piece while the M11/P228 has is a 2-piece pinned rear action which can be an issue for high volume shooters as the pin will need to be replaced.

Personally, I get a legacy P229 in 9mm and install NS and the SRT trigger myself if I was look for a 9mm P229 variant...

[WOLFIE]

I own a M11-1 and like it. It has the SRT system and comes with 3 of the 15 round magazines and factory night sights (Meprolight). It has the one piece stainless slide. The only negative might be the long extractor. It is also a decent concealment gun similar in size to a Glock 19. I think Sig uses a heavier than normal hammer spring in the M11-a1 and MK-25 guns.

[CSW]

1. My personal opinion is that the P-series in 9mm flavors is GTG

2. The only difference in the M11-A1 and the “Army” special run model is the green anodized frame.

Of note, the M11-A1 is NOT synonymous with M11. The M11-A1 is Sig’s attempted to make a P229 look like a M11/P228. However, the M11/P228 as issued by the military has a folded sheet metal slide and the P229 has a CNC machined stainless steel slide that is designed withstand the 40SW/357Sig recoil. Thus, the P229 is about an 1.5 ounces heavier. The P229s slide is also a single piece while the M11/P228 has is a 2-piece pinned rear action which can be an issue for high volume shooters as the pin will need to be replaced.

Personally, I get a legacy P229 in 9mm and install NS and the SRT trigger myself if I was look for a 9mm P229 variant...

Or, find a lightly used P228 and call it good. They are out there, but you'll pay as much as the M11 clone.

I purchased an M11a1, already owning a 1990 West German P228. The may look the same, but they are not. As mentioned, the slides are different, stamped vs. stainless, and they essentially put 228 marked grips om the one I had:rolleyes:

As far as enhancements, I did not think that the M11a1 had anything over my stock 228. To me, the balance was different also. I never got into it, and sold it off.

[sharps54]

Sorry for the hijack but since WOLFIE mentioned being similar in size to a Glock 19 here is my question:

For those that have carried both a 229 or variant and Glock 19 AIWB do you find one conceals better? I know the paper numbers have the SIG being heavier (not so worried about that) and taller but how much of that height is in the slide? Being a little guy, just under 5’4”, I find the grip to be the hard part to conceal. How much difference is there in the actual length of grip that sticks out of the holster?

Again sorry for the hijack but I didn’t want to create a whole thread just to ask the question.

[WOLFIE]

Sorry for the hijack but since WOLFIE mentioned being similar in size to a Glock 19 here is my question:

For those that have carried both a 229 or variant and Glock 19 AIWB do you find one conceals better? I know the paper numbers have the SIG being heavier (not so worried about that) and taller but how much of that height is in the slide? Being a little guy, just under 5’4”, I find the grip to be the hard part to conceal. How much difference is there in the actual length of grip that sticks out of the holster?

Again sorry for the hijack but I didn’t want to create a whole thread just to ask the question.

I think the 229 (M11-a1) grip is slightly shorter in length than the G19. The Sig slide is definitely taller.

[sharps54]

I think the 229 (M11-a1) grip is slightly shorter in length than the G19. The Sig slide is definitely taller.

Thank you!

[HCountyGuy]

Sorry for the hijack but since WOLFIE mentioned being similar in size to a Glock 19 here is my question:

For those that have carried both a 229 or variant and Glock 19 AIWB do you find one conceals better? I know the paper numbers have the SIG being heavier (not so worried about that) and taller but how much of that height is in the slide? Being a little guy, just under 5’4”, I find the grip to be the hard part to conceal. How much difference is there in the actual length of grip that sticks out of the holster?

Again sorry for the hijack but I didn’t want to create a whole thread just to ask the question.

I found the Glock 19 to conceal better for me due to the flatter sides of the grip. Comparing grip/frame length (P229R vs G19) they’re pretty close. To me the grip of the P229 was a tad thicker even with E2 grips, particularly considering that annoying hump by the de-cocker.

Overall though the differences are minor enough it isn’t make it much harder to conceal the P229 than a G19.

[Leroy]

I own a M11-1 and like it. It has the SRT system and comes with 3 of the 15 round magazines and factory night sights (Meprolight). It has the one piece stainless slide. The only negative might be the long extractor. It is also a decent concealment gun similar in size to a Glock 19. I think Sig uses a heavier than normal hammer spring in the M11-a1 and MK-25 guns.
Swap the hammer strut and seat with the E2 versions. Cleans the DA up quite a bit. My Mk25 had a significant stack even with a trimmed 17 lb hammer spring until I swapped in the E2 parts. I think all of the Sigs use a stock 21 lb hammer spring.

[HCountyGuy]

Swap the hammer strut and seat with the E2 versions. Cleans the DA up quite a bit. My Mk25 had a significant stack even with a trimmed 17 lb hammer spring until I swapped in the E2 parts. I think all of the Sigs use a stock 21 lb hammer spring.

I thought the M11-A1 used the E2 parts?

I didn’t know the Mk25 wasn’t using E2 parts, then again I’ve never taken one apart.

[MattyD380]

At first, I thought you were talking about a legit M11-B when you said "army":

https://www.gunsamerica.com/userimages/99510/926690524/wm_5607379.jpg

As has been said before, regardless of color/style... the current crop of M11 badged guns are 229s, which still have a bunch of MIM innards, likely outsourced. Opinions vary, but my guess is... they're fine, for the most part. But I personally prefer the older guns.

[MGW]

I carried a 229-1 for about two years. For me it concealed about the same as a 19 AIWB with a slight edge to the 229. The rounder butt of the Sig tended to print less when wearing a smedium T-shirt. I also shot the 229 way better than I can shoot a 19.

I’m still trying to remember why I sold that 229.

I did have some early extraction issues with mine. Those issues oddly went away after the first 1,000 rounds though.

[Sauer Koch]

We have two M11 A-1’s, purchased in late ‘16 and early ‘17. One is the FDE and one is the Talo Army Green. Lost count of how many rounds, but both were tested with 500/HST prior to carrying them, along with several hundred Rounds of ball. They’ve ran flawlessly. Both had terrible triggers from the factory; very heavy & gritty, so they went to Sig for the AEP, and came back with great triggers. Both are now wearing E2 grips, and the difference between how each feels is amazing. The newest set on the Army model, is very grippy, and the set on the FDE gun are much smoother, and IMO perfect.
Great pistols!

[Sensei]

Here is my all-German P228 Rail.

31556

It is a bit of a rare bird.

[MattyD380]

Here is my all-German P228 Rail.

31556

It is a bit of a rare bird.

That's sweet. So what's the story behind those? They had some leftover stamped slides and put them 229 frames?

[Evil_Ed]

Here is my all-German P228 Rail.

31556

It is a bit of a rare bird.

How well / what distance do the HDs regulate at? I've got a #7 front on mine and it seems a little low at 15 yards; I haven't stretched it out to 25 yet but I'm hoping it hits on at that range. Is it drive-the-dot at 25 on yours? Mine is a bog-standard 228...thanks!

[LSP552]

How well / what distance do the HDs regulate at? I've got a #7 front on mine and it seems a little low at 15 yards; I haven't stretched it out to 25 yet but I'm hoping it hits on at that range. Is it drive-the-dot at 25 on yours? Mine is a bog-standard 228...thanks!

Just an FYI, but Trij makes an entire range of HD front sight heights for the SIG. Optic Planet generally carries most heights.

[Evil_Ed]

Just an FYI, but Trij makes an entire range of HD front sight heights for the SIG. Optic Planet generally carries most heights.

They do? Nice! Thank you!

[tcba_joe]

Here is my all-German P228 Rail.

31556

It is a bit of a rare bird.

I didn't realize there was ever a factory Railed Frame P228.

I have a spare P229 slide I keep wanting to build into a full gun. I've just never found a cost effective way to do it. Kinda digging the matrix precision 80% P229/226 combo frames but I'm not confident in my ability to build it without screwing it up.

[MGW]

I didn't realize there was ever a factory Railed Frame P228.

I have a spare P229 slide I keep wanting to build into a full gun. I've just never found a cost effective way to do it. Kinda digging the matrix precision 80% P229/226 combo frames but I'm not confident in my ability to build it without screwing it up.

Buy a P229-22 then you can swap back and forth between 22 and 9mm.

[OlongJohnson]

One is the FDE and one is the Talo Army Green.

Yeah, the "Army" appears to be just Sig selling what was originally a one-distributor special to all channels. S&W has done the same thing with Talo on revolvers. I don't have any special insight into the reasons for that.

I have one of the Talo green M11-A1s. Picked up a set of Sig-branded G10 grips for it (made by Hogue) for super-cheap from CDNN. They sold out in hours. Hogue's G10 are my preferred grips on any classic Sig at this point. They are flatter on the sides with larger radius on the back, whereas the factory molded plastic grips have a smaller radius at the back, with more curvature on the sides - more of an ellipse in cross section. I also traded someone for a standard-reach trigger, because I have big hands. TRIGGER-6 drops right in.

Mine has the long external extractor. I've had a ton of trouble with it leaving Winchester White Box in the chamber, but the WWB cases are obviously defectively machined, and I can correlate the extraction failures to the geometry defects. Inspecting the cases tells the story clearly. I've had one FTE with Blazer Brass, but other than that, it has been flawless with all other ammo I've tried. This illustrates why generic statements on the internet are often useless. The "Made in America" ammo chokes it, while cheap Eastern European PPU cases loaded for Academy's Monarch house brand have run flawlessly, and are clearly machined better and more consistently.

I've done a little work on the extractor, and made some improvement, but it's still not what I want it to be. I could go a little farther, but don't know how far I can trust the integrity of the MIM if I do. It's conceivable I might make my own extractor out of reliable material if that's what it takes. I put it in the safe awhile back and have been working with other stuff, haven't gotten around to asking Sig for an updated extractor spring or anything, which is the next step. I should make that call one of these days.

It shoots awesome. The sear in mine had a silver colored coating that I've not been able to identify. Robar said it is not NP3. With a little action cleanup/deburring/smoothing before starting, it's broken in to the point that it makes my P226, which I previously thought was pretty sweet, feel like there's something wrong with it.

The P229 is a little bulkier than you'd think. It's built for .40. The slide is beefy. The decocker on the side makes it seem thicker than, say, a USP Compact. It's not that much smaller than a P226, but is down several rounds in capacity. I can shoot a lot more rounds out of the P226 without feeling the recoil in my hands as noticeably. The best description I've seen is that it's a smallish service pistol, while the P226 is a go-to-war-size service pistol, but they are both "full size."

There have been some excellent clear-out prices a few times over the past year on old-style P229s that take the skinnier 13-round magazines.

[Sensei]

That's sweet. So what's the story behind those? They had some leftover stamped slides and put them 229 frames?

German contract overrun. There are other non-German versions lacking the “triple serial numbers” and DE markings that were assembled from parts in NH.


How well / what distance do the HDs regulate at? I've got a #7 front on mine and it seems a little low at 15 yards; I haven't stretched it out to 25 yet but I'm hoping it hits on at that range. Is it drive-the-dot at 25 on yours? Mine is a bog-standard 228...thanks!

15 yards drive the dot with 147 grain HST.

[Evil_Ed]

15 yards drive the dot with 147 grain HST.

That's exactly what I was shooting with mine and it was printing low at 15 with the Sig sights on it. Aiming at the top of a 3x5 card it was barely scraping the bottom, so 3in +- off. There's certainly a chance that it was me, but this was off of a rest and the other pistols I was checking the zero on that day were all consistent, so I'm not sure that was the case.

If the Trijicon HDs shoot like that at 15, perfect. Thank you for the info!