Remington V3 Tac-13

[farscott]

Anyone see this?

https://www.remington.com/other-products/v3-tac-13


The Remington V3 Tac-13 represents the ultimate in compact personal defense regardless of where your journey takes you. From the comfort of your own home, to the remote wilderness the V3 Tac-13 offers the assurance that no matter what you encounter in the world you will have adequate means to defend yourself or those you love from any threat.

BIRDSHEAD PISTOL GRIP
Allows for more ergonomic hold to help control the firearm and reduce recoil for the shooter.

HAND STRAP
User adjustable to help control muzzle flip and improve handling characteristics.

LIGHTWEIGHT ALUMINUM RECEIVER
For easy, comfortable transport anywhere.

13" LIGHT CONTOUR BARREL
Compact and easy to carry anytime its [sic] needed

RELIABLE FEEDING
Gas system optimized to run common light field loads or full power buck and slug and anything in between

LOW RECOIL
Patented Versaport gas system is self regulating and offers very manageable recoil in a compact package

[Sigfan26]

It will definitely be cool as long as it works.

[Screwball]

I’d hold off for the Black Aces firearms on 1100 receivers...

Or Remington could license the use of a design that gets rid of anything back of the end of the receiver? Then put it on a 1100/11-87 virgin receiver.

[JHC]

I’d hold off for the Black Aces firearms on 1100 receivers...

Or Remington could license the use of a design that gets rid of anything back of the end of the receiver? Then put it on a 1100/11-87 virgin receiver.

Oh for a virgin Model 11 receiver set up like this? (assuming it would run). That'd look pretty BA.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Cool. I’m glad that all of the guns that were the fictional super guns of 80’s super heroes and crime fighters are finally on the market...now that I can afford them.


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[psalms144.1]

Oh, HELLS yes! Time to start saving shekels...

[ASH556]

What 3gn division will that put me in and can I put a 12 round mag tube on it?

[1slow]

I want this I Beretta 1301 !

[Lon]

My only question is - “what pistol brace works on this?”

[TCinVA]

Somebody is going to lose a hand with one of those things.

[Sigfan26]

Somebody is going to lose a hand with one of those things.

Natural selection.


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[ragnar_d]

Not gonna lie, I kind of want one to submit a Form 1 for and reverse engineer/3D print/have machined an Aridus-esque 870 stock adapter for it.

[03RN]

Do want. With wood and rifle sights though

[45dotACP]

This...but as a Browning A5 :D

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[oregon45]

I just hope it works. I'd also love to see a large, integral, hand stop.

[jellydonut]

Okay, this is VersaMax based. I definitely want one.

Now someone just needs to make a pistol brace that mimics a straight stock. I detest pistol grips on shotguns.

[Screwball]

Okay, this is VersaMax based. I definitely want one.

If you know the line... do they accept the same stocks/grips at the 870?

Looking at the picture, there seems to be some type of adapter between the receiver and grip.

If I get one, I do want to add a folding brace like I have on my TAC-14.

https://i.imgur.com/kP6q74F.jpg

[HCM]

This...but as a Browning A5 :D

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Someone has been watching Lone Wold McQuade .....

[45dotACP]

Someone has been watching Lone Wold McQuade .....Heh well now that you mention it...

But that was mostly due to seeing a picture of the Dillinger arsenal. I was striken with the need for a sawed off A5, a .351 self loader and a fully automatic 38 super with a forward handgrip, extended mag and cutts compensator.

Because reasons.

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[SeriousStudent]

I happen to be working on a Browning Auto-5 version of this as we speak. Just waiting on the From 1 to be approved.

[RevolverRob]

Why did no one post the pictures?

31220

Holy shit...WANT.

[WobblyPossum]

This thing looks pretty cool actually. If the street price ends up closer to $600 than the $915 MSRP, I might not be able to resist. Especially if it takes standard 870 stocks and I could Form 1 it into an SBS with a Magpul SGA at some point in the future.

[Screwball]

Most people I’ve seen offering it so far have been putting the price around $750. Likely will come down a little bit when the hype dies down.

[WobblyPossum]

It also looks like a great candidate for an Aimpoint S1.

[CleverNickname]

Looks pretty dumb to me. Shotguns need shoulder stocks.

[Spartan1980]

I happen to be working on a Browning Auto-5 version of this as we speak. Just waiting on the From 1 to be approved.

We're gonna need pics and a full writeup when it's done!

[alohadoug]

Heh well now that you mention it...

But that was mostly due to seeing a picture of the Dillinger arsenal. I was striken with the need for a sawed off A5, a .351 self loader and a fully automatic 38 super with a forward handgrip, extended mag and cutts compensator.

Because reasons.

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I happen to be working on a Browning Auto-5 version of this as we speak. Just waiting on the From 1 to be approved.

I love early 20th Century Firearms. I bought a Remington Model 11 (copy of the A5) made in 1924 for $100 (there was a ding in the barrel) that I was going to convert to a B&C "whip it gun" but then found the pain in the ass here in Mass. One day, I'll get the courage (and the money) to get it done. :rolleyes:

/thread drift

Too bad that will NEVER be legal here in Mass.

[Hambo]

I probably buy more dumb stuff than I should (because I'm stupid), but just like the Tac14 and Shockwave things, dumb can be fun -- although, at this price it's certainly harder to justify. With wood furniture and rifle sights, well that just might have me selling some (other dumb) stuff, to buy one. :)

There's nothing wrong with dumb fun. I will buy a hardwood Tac-14 because 80's. I could get interested in one of these as a gateway to an SBS.

[TCinVA]

I probably buy more dumb stuff than I should (because I'm stupid), but just like the Tac14 and Shockwave things, dumb can be fun -- although, at this price it's certainly harder to justify. With wood furniture and rifle sights, well that just might have me selling some (other dumb) stuff, to buy one. :)

On the one hand it's dating girls from the trailer park stupid.

On the other, it's a semiautomatic backpack 12 gauge. Which is stupid, but it's like really really hot trailerpark girl stupid.

[Screwball]

Folding brace... it is definitely funner.

Personally, I’d opt for a SBS stamp. However, NJ law specifically states it is illegal to have a SBS (they also call a SBR a SBS). The NJSP and AG approved those firearms for sale, along with the Black Aces DT (folding stock). As long as it is similar, not built off a shotgun frame, and not an AOW... it is legal (they actually specify to follow Federal law regarding that classification of firearm).

I don’t see myself getting one here, but when I do... it is going to have a similar brace/stock (depending on how I go about it... stamp or not). Viewing NJ assault weapon legislation... it is specifically not a shotgun, so I don’t think the feature list applies... but waiting on the move so not become an example for this crap hole state.

[mtnbkr]

Which is stupid, but it's like really really hot trailerpark girl stupid.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Chris

[RevolverRob]

Sent this to my wife and her response was, "SPLOOSH. BUY ONE."

The one advantage of a shotgun loving wife? I almost never have to justify buying a shotgun to her. She loves absurd shotguns and frankly, anything that fires shotshells.

[JRB]

Sent this to my wife and her response was, "SPLOOSH. BUY ONE."

The one advantage of a shotgun loving wife? I almost never have to justify buying a shotgun to her. She loves absurd shotguns and frankly, anything that fires shotshells.

You are a damn fortunate man, Rob.

[SeriousStudent]

Looks pretty dumb to me. Shotguns need shoulder stocks.

And I agree, as the owner of both a 12" 870 SBS and a 14" Benelli M2 SBS.

The Browning Auto-5 I have was made in 1934 in Belgium, and will be a replica of the whippit Clyde Barrow carried. It will strictly be for shits and giggles. Lest I be accused of blasphemy, I have a complete set of replacement wood and a barrel that will be altered. The original bits shall remain pristine.

Dagga Boy and I were talking about this exact topic this week. For the average Earth person, an SBS makes much more sense. But if you are a person who spends a lot of time in extremely confined spaces as your job (inside cars, elevators and the like) then perhaps one of these makes sense. I'm an average Earth person. Darryl's new gig fits the above parameters, and therefore makes sense.

As Uncle Pat (God rest his soul) used to say: "Mission drives the gear train."

I have all the serious conflict-resolution tools I will ever need. An autoloading buckshot slinger with a pistol grip and a short barrel is nothing but a range toy for me. A fun, historical range toy. It shall smite tin cans, and nothing more.

[NH Shooter]

If I end up moving to CT, I will refuse to neuter my BCM AR and will simply sell it here. I'll buy one of these to take with me which will ease my sense of loss. Yes, it is wicked stupid!

Make a good companion to these, yes?

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187s-1.jpg

[Bigghoss]

This...but as a Browning A5 :D

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This.

[RevolverRob]

You are a damn fortunate man, Rob.

She’s a keeper. But she’s definitely a shotgun girl. She’d rather have a shotgun than a handgun any day of the week. I want to take her to a Scotty Reitz class someday. I also think she and Lena Miculek would be BFFs (or maybe that’s just my hope).

[03RN]

Looks pretty dumb to me. Shotguns need shoulder stocks.

It's not a shotgun.

But seriously, they are a handful but they can be surprisingly usable.

[CleverNickname]

It's not a shotgun.

But seriously, they are a handful but they can be surprisingly usable.

It is, in all but the strict legal definition.

[awp_101]

I kept saying if Remington ever made a semi version of the TAC-14 I'd buy one. I hate having my bluff called...

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7440/12882166664_751bc64d06_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/kCmtkN)

[ragnar_d]

On the one hand it's dating girls from the trailer park stupid.

On the other, it's a semiautomatic backpack 12 gauge. Which is stupid, but it's like really really hot trailerpark girl stupid.
FWIW, I'm gonna have to borrow that one for describing my questionable decisions in procuring firearms and automotive projects (with proper credit, of course).:cool:

[fatdog]

I happen to be working on a Browning Auto-5 version of this as we speak. Just waiting on the From 1 to be approved.

Works great...my has yet to jam.....

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17668-Gauge-Pic-Thread&p=677453&viewfull=1#post677453

[03RN]

It is, in all but the strict legal definition.

Words have meaning.

The rest of my statement stands, no matter what you want to call it.

[okie john]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Or like a guy who's never dated the really hot trailer park girl, 'cause she's got a charm all her own.

Eagerly awaiting the holster thread for this thing.


Okie John

[mtnbkr]

Eagerly awaiting the holster thread for this thing.

For the shotgun or the really really hot trailer park girl? :confused:

;)

Chris

[GJM]

I have these sights on a Benelli or two and think they would be great on this new blaster.

https://www.xssights.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=993618&CAT=8271

[03RN]

I have these sights on a Benelli or two and think they would be great on this new blaster.

https://www.xssights.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=993618&CAT=8271

Sold!

[NH Shooter]

Since it has a vent rib my first inclination is to use a FO front sight as on my 11-87 below, but that XS set looks really good.

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-21.jpg

[JRB]

...they are a handful but they can be surprisingly usable.

I doubted that they'd be useful, but I bought a hardwood TAC-14 anyway because:reasons.

My first range trip was enough to convince me that it wasn't just fun as hell, it would be really effective in a building/vehicle defense role. It shoots well from the hip and it's not too difficult to manage at all with standard or low-recoil 2.75" 12ga. Using a hold similar to the ones you used in your videos posted in the TAC-14 thread, holding my support arm out as straight as possible and using it to also absorb recoil, it really wasn't bad at all and getting a sight picture off the bead wasn't too hard either.

One of these V3 TAC-13's with those XS sights that GJM posted would be a heck of a setup for 0-50M - assuming they run well, of course.

If Beretta makes a 1301 like this with factory rifle sights, oof, that'd be a keeper!

[RevolverRob]

My first range trip was enough to convince me that it wasn't just fun as hell, it would be really effective in a building/vehicle defense role.

I mean one major advantage of an AR inside a house (besides capacity) is that it's shorter and easier to manage inside, than your typical pump shotgun. For instance, I am WAY too short to single-point sling a standard 18" shotgun (or hell, even a 16" AR). But it's no problem with a Shockwave/Tac-14.

I am leaning, heavily, towards getting one of the detachable mag Tac-14s. The advantage of being able to rapidly load/unload the Tac-14 solves some of the potential legal issues when transporting. Plus the 6-round mags are ~35 bucks a piece (unlike the Mossberg mags, which are $100 each). But the semi-auto vent-rib gun is extremely tempting. If it runs on low-recoil buck and is decently accurate with slugs, it'll be hard to pass up as a compact apartment/vehicle/hotel weapon. Especially, when someone comes out with a folding brace stock for it.

I may still grab a Tac-14DM with the folding brace for now and wait on the V3. Though I want a Tac-14 hardwood too...

[GJM]

I mean one major advantage of an AR inside a house (besides capacity) is that it's shorter and easier to manage inside, than your typical pump shotgun. For instance, I am WAY too short to single-point sling a standard 18" shotgun (or hell, even a 16" AR). But it's no problem with a Shockwave/Tac-14.

I am leaning, heavily, towards getting one of the detachable mag Tac-14s. The advantage of being able to rapidly load/unload the Tac-14 solves some of the potential legal issues when transporting. Plus the 6-round mags are ~35 bucks a piece (unlike the Mossberg mags, which are $100 each). But the semi-auto vent-rib gun is extremely tempting. If it runs on low-recoil buck and is decently accurate with slugs, it'll be hard to pass up as a compact apartment/vehicle/hotel weapon. Especially, when someone comes out with a folding brace stock for it.

I may still grab a Tac-14DM with the folding brace for now and wait on the V3. Though I want a Tac-14 hardwood too...

Have you played with one with detachable magazines? The one I handled a few days ago was quick to awkward to insert the magazine on.

[NH Shooter]

I like the simplicity and reliability of the good old tubular mag. Not the most convenient to empty, but a minor grievance IMO...

[RevolverRob]

Have you played with one with detachable magazines? The one I handled a few days ago was quick to awkward to insert the magazine on.

Not yet, actually. I had heard/read it's awkward, but watching videos, it seems like an AK "rock the mag" in place approach works? Any opinions on that? I imagine it's all but impossible to insert a fully loaded mag with the bolt forward too.

I guess you kind of choose your downsides on this one. At least for me, my most common road trips, have me traveling through places where 'long guns' (which the Tac14 isn't but I'm not explaining that to an Illinois State Trooper) must be unloaded. Which places tube-fed guns at a real disadvantage for rapid loading and use. In years past, I've simply left the bolt back and port loaded pump guns to get into action quick (which I also imagine is still faster than rocking one of these magazines into place). I suppose if it's hard to get the mag in, in a hurry, then that'll be a non-starter too.

[ragnar_d]

I have these sights on a Benelli or two and think they would be great on this new blaster.

https://www.xssights.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=993618&CAT=8271
Messed around with a Versamax Competition that had those sights. Awesome for three gun . . . a little tricky for shooting at small orange flying things.

Honestly, when I first saw the Tac-13, I thought about a P&S Shotgun modcast where Fisher mentioned one of his shotguns had Trijicon HDs milled into the vent rib. I don't know why I thought about that for this shotgun, but it popped into my head as something to experiment with for this gun. I think this is a photo of said setup:
http://i.imgur.com/AU8BPxs.png

[GJM]

My wife’s 20 gauge Benelli has an HD front sight milled into her rib with a custom rear that matches.

[JRB]

Not yet, actually. I had heard/read it's awkward, but watching videos, it seems like an AK "rock the mag" in place approach works? Any opinions on that? I imagine it's all but impossible to insert a fully loaded mag with the bolt forward too.

I guess you kind of choose your downsides on this one. At least for me, my most common road trips, have me traveling through places where 'long guns' (which the Tac14 isn't but I'm not explaining that to an Illinois State Trooper) must be unloaded. Which places tube-fed guns at a real disadvantage for rapid loading and use. In years past, I've simply left the bolt back and port loaded pump guns to get into action quick (which I also imagine is still faster than rocking one of these magazines into place). I suppose if it's hard to get the mag in, in a hurry, then that'll be a non-starter too.

There's this magnificent sumbish that's basically a TAC-14 style Saiga-12:

https://atlantic-firearms-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/media/detail_product_main/product/spetz-12-firearm-9-of-20-jpg.jpg
https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/spets-12

Most accounts seem to indicate there's a break-in period not unlike the S12, but runs great on hotter 00 buck and #1.
I've got enough of an advanced case that I'd likely buy the SPETS-12 and this V3 Tac-13 once I can financially swing it.

[RevolverRob]

There's this magnificent sumbish that's basically a TAC-14 style Saiga-12:

https://atlantic-firearms-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/media/detail_product_main/product/spetz-12-firearm-9-of-20-jpg.jpg
https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/spets-12

Most accounts seem to indicate there's a break-in period not unlike the S12, but runs great on hotter 00 buck and #1.
I've got enough of an advanced case that I'd likely buy the SPETS-12 and this V3 Tac-13 once I can financially swing it.

That’s...fucking hot. I NEED one of those.

[GJM]

This is the HD front sight set up on my Benelli.

31264

31265

[NH Shooter]

I think I'll put another one of these right here;

31266


A WML, 2-point sling and a Velcro sidesaddle to complete it.

[UNK]

Better talk to Sherman A. House DDS about that. I think he posted in the other SBS thread.


Since it has a vent rib my first inclination is to use a FO front sight as on my 11-87 below, but that XS set looks really good.

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-21.jpg

[RevolverRob]

I think I'll put another one of these right here;

31266


A WML, 2-point sling and a Velcro sidesaddle to complete it.

Well...you can print out a picture and shine your flashlights on it, that should be CT legal. :eek::p

[LJP]

Well...you can print out a picture and shine your flashlights on it, that should be CT legal. :eek::p

Well, the Tac14 is legal here... Such a firearm is terribly tempting for no good reason and this new one isn’t helping the situation!

[jellydonut]

Since it has a vent rib, my first thought is to top it with an Aimpoint S1.

Aimpoint S1, some sort of brace (please, someone, make a non-pistolgrip brace..), side saddle, white light.

[NH Shooter]

Well, the Tac14 is legal here...

...and since my ARs will be a casualty of the move, the V3 Tac-13 seems a reasonable consolation prize. Plus, it can travel with me to NY where an AR can not.

Slinging the Tac-13

Something I discovered shooting the AR pistol is the use of a 2-point sling for a more stable hold. Shooting right-handed, the sling goes over my right shoulder from the rear attachment point, wraps around my back and passes under my left arm to connect to the front connection point on the handguard. The sling length is adjusted so that when tension is placed on it by pushing the AR forward with both hands (by both the grip and handguard), it is held in perfect position in front of me. I quickly discovered that for me, this is by far the best way to shoot the AR pistol without using my shoulder: pushing it forward and holding tension on the sling really stabilizes it. Additionally, the 2-point sling makes for convenient carry.

Though I have not seen anyone shoot a Tac-14 or Shockwave this way, it seems that it might work really well with the Tac-13 due to not having the operate the slide and being able to hold constant tension against the sling, just like the AR pistol. On the Tac-13, a QD cup can be installed on the clamp and another installed in the grip as I did with my 1187P shown below;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187p-2.jpg

I would have to think that between a sling used this way and the hand strap provided on the Tac-13, it should be quite controllable in a string of rapid fire. Add a WML and a Velcro side saddle and she'll really be bitchin'.

[NH Shooter]

Since it has a vent rib, my first thought is to top it with an Aimpoint S1.

Oh shit yeah - excellent suggestion!

[03RN]

...and since my ARs will be a casualty of the move, the V3 Tac-13 seems a reasonable consolation prize. Plus, it can travel with me to NY where an AR can not.

Slinging the Tac-13

Something I discovered shooting the AR pistol is the use of a 2-point sling for a more stable hold. Shooting right-handed, the sling goes over my right shoulder from the rear attachment point, wraps around my back and passes under my left arm to connect to the front connection point on the handguard. The sling length is adjusted so that when tension is placed on it by pushing the AR forward with both hands (by both the grip and handguard), it is held in perfect position in front of me. I quickly discovered that for me, this is by far the best way to shoot the AR pistol without using my shoulder: pushing it forward and holding tension on the sling really stabilizes it. Additionally, the 2-point sling makes for convenient carry.

Though I have not seen anyone shoot a Tac-14 or Shockwave this way, it seems that it might work really well with the Tac-13 due to not having the operate the slide and being able to hold constant tension against the sling, just like the AR pistol. On the Tac-13, a QD cup can be installed on the clamp and another installed in the grip as I did with my 1187P shown below;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187p-2.jpg

I would have to think that between a sling used this way and the hand strap provided on the Tac-13, it should be quite controllable in a string of rapid fire. Add a WML and a Velcro side saddle and she'll really be bitchin'.

Like you said, operating a pump trying to maintain sling pressure might be a bit tricky but I don't see why it couldn't help the semi.

[NH Shooter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF_rB0Errr0

[Norville]

I am so in as well.

[NH Shooter]

Now I guess it's a matter of waiting until they're available. I'd buy one right now if I could.

[03RN]

3 position mag cut off? Can someone explain how that works?

[Lon]

Yep, if someone makes a brace for this I’m in. Even though it’s a Remington.

[Jay585]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF_rB0Errr0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWJDP_g2xzo

[John91]

I saw a similar product from a company called black aces tactical it’s a semi auto for $449. Here is a link to some info if anyone is interested.

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/10/15/black-aces-tactical-announces-the-new-449-pro-series-s-shockwave-semi/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook


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[NH Shooter]

3 position mag cut off? Can someone explain how that works?

My understanding: with rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber, the mag cut-off allows the bolt to be retracted and locked back while ejecting the live round from the chamber. A new shell can be dropped in the ejection port and then the bolt released via the 3-position cut-off. This makes changing the chambered round easier than the 11-87, which requires placing the new round in the magazine then cycling the action (need to have space in the mag to load the new round). It also makes it possible to empty just the chamber and leave the magazine full, something that is impossible to do with the 11-87.

I've also read that the magazine can be emptied (one shell at a time) without cycling the shells through the action, though that is not an advertised feature or stated in the V3 operating manual (https://www.remington.com/sites/default/files/documents/V3%20-%207-30-15.pdf). The ability to empty the chamber and lock the bolt back without feeding a shell from the mag pretty much negates the need to empty the magazine in many cases. This has always been my gripe with the 11-87: since there is no way to stop another shell from feeding from the magazine, to unload the chamber the mag has to be cycled empty too.

Unlike the 1100 and 11-87, the V3 recoil springs are located in the receiver, not the stock. This makes the V3 a much better design than the 1100 or 11-87 for a pistol grip only configuration, and why I'll hold out and pay more for it. Everything I've read about the V3 in terms of design, function and reliability are very positive, the only caveat is the current state of Remington QC. But since the V3 Tac-13 has such tremendous potential as a truly excellent close range PDW, I'm willing to be an early adopter.

I'm betting it will be Q1 2019 before they are readily available, but will keep my eyes open for availability in the mean time.

[03RN]

Sounds good. Any chance of it becoming engaged and not allowing the action to cycle?

Can the v3 be ghost loaded?

[NH Shooter]

Sounds good. Any chance of it becoming engaged and not allowing the action to cycle?

Based on Internet research only, I guess it's possible. One would have to reach under the action in front of the trigger guard, then push the mag cut-off forward and up. At that point on a pull of the trigger, the chambered round will fire and lock the bolt back as if it was empty. One would have to disengage the cut-off to close the bolt, either dropping a round in first or cycling the action afterward.


Can the v3 be ghost loaded?

Based on a response in another forum, apparently it can.

[NH Shooter]

http://www.randywakeman.com/OnTheRemingtonV3.htm

http://www.randywakeman.com/2500RemingtonV3.htm

[JRB]

It's looking like Tac-13 street prices at local FFL's will be ~$699-725.

[TGS]

But seriously, they are a handful but they can be surprisingly usable.

How so, in what way?

I'm personally not seeing the attraction to these for anything other than novelty. Pistol-gripped shotguns have largely been abandoned for professional use on any task other than breaching guns....

….with the exception of the Federal Bureau of Prisons...….

….which says it all.

[NH Shooter]

How so, in what way?

I'm personally not seeing the attraction to these for anything other than novelty. Pistol-gripped shotguns have largely been abandoned for professional use on any task other than breaching guns....

Viable, AWB-state legal PDW for the civilian. Where an AR or handgun is a no-go for me when I travel to NY, the Tac-13 will be good-to-go and fit fully-assembled in my travel duffel.

No doubt there's a bit of novelty involved but I'm betting the V3 Tac-13 will be far easier to master than its pump-action equivalents, easier to carry/transport than a long gun and far more effective within home defense distances than any handgun.

There's little doubt in my mind that the Remington V3 is a good design and very reliable. It all comes down to how well it can be shot, which I'm betting will be quite sufficient for its intended role.

[03RN]

How so, in what way?

I'm personally not seeing the attraction to these for anything other than novelty. Pistol-gripped shotguns have largely been abandoned for professional use on any task other than breaching guns....

….with the exception of the Federal Bureau of Prisons...….

….which says it all.

It's usable as a compact, light, powerful gun that I can get accurate hits out farther than a handgun.
It's easy to carry.
31396
And fun to shoot

https://youtu.be/hmKKrZohavc

[Gun Mutt]

That was freakin' awesome, RN!

I've shot a friend's Tac-14, I feel I need a Tac-13 to give the world equilibrium.

[TCinVA]

Crimson Trace just announced a laser sight for the Mossberg shockwave that mounts to the side of the receiver.

Interesting things may be coming for this thing, too...

[NH Shooter]

Crimson Trace just announced a laser sight for the Mossberg shockwave that mounts to the side of the receiver.

Interesting things may be coming for this thing, too...

A sling and WML are the two additions I plan to make. The Tac-13 is already set up to take a 2-point sling on the left side, but the light is a bit of a challenge. Using the factory Nordic clamp with the rail on the right side, here is what I'm currently looking to do;

https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/parts-and-miscellaneous-items/products/malkoff-mdc-bodyguard-head

https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/mounts/sm-ei-scout-mount/ (1-inch version fits the Malkoff MDC head)

https://www.lumensfactory.com/en/product_detail.php?pid=397 (remove clip)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Surefire-Scout-UE-BK-ST-07-Remote-Pressure-Pad-Switch/232958300472?hash=item363d659138:g:Ua0AAOSw2yVbu9U j:rk:3:pf:0

The 1-inch Vltor mount fits the Malkoff head, keeping the bezel behind the muzzle (I already have these two parts). The light will run on either a single CR123A battery or a 16340 IMR cell. The remote switch will be positioned for easy reach on the right side of the forearm with the support hand fingers (through the strap).

Now it's just a waiting game until the "firearm" is actually available.

[cathellsk]

How so, in what way?

I'm personally not seeing the attraction to these for anything other than novelty. Pistol-gripped shotguns have largely been abandoned for professional use on any task other than breaching guns....

….with the exception of the Federal Bureau of Prisons...….

….which says it all.

I’m not meaning this other than inquisitively, but what do you mean by this comment about the BOP? Because I’ve been with them 15 years and never seen a pistol gripped shotgun. We do have a motley crew of different generations of 870s but still never seen a pistol gripped one.

[TGS]

I’m not meaning this other than inquisitively, but what do you mean by this comment about the BOP? Because I’ve been with them 15 years and never seen a pistol gripped shotgun. We do have a motley crew of different generations of 870s but still never seen a pistol gripped one.

I have two friends with BOP. From what I understand, please correct me, but BOP is unique in that firearms are selected/purchased by individual facilities as opposed to being preempted agency wide....many use the Ruger P89, some use the Beretta 92, some the USP, and the most recent news being the purchase of 130 Glock 19Xs by an FCI in California. So I'm guessing that some places might have them while others don't.

So, one of my friends (in CA) had to qualify on a shotgun as part of a promotion or assignment of some type, and it was a pistol-gripped shotgun mandated to be fired from the hip. That was last year. My other friend (Connecticut) had never heard of it. The two of them have also told me different things about their qual...….at the one's facility, it's timed, whereas at the other facility there's no time limit. The one is BOP for the forseeable future, whereas the other is trying to get a gig as SIS or USMS, whichever she gets first.

I get the impression that things can vary widely from facility to facility with firearms. Have you found that to be the case?

[cathellsk]

I get the impression that things can vary widely from facility to facility with firearms. Have you found that to be the case?

You have no idea how much that’s true. 🙂

I’m a firearms instructor since 2011. Firing from the hip has been dropped years ago, thank god. Why they ever had that I’ll never know. All shooting is timed, other than the 870 (our standard issue shotguns btw).

If your friend isn’t being timed someone’s not doing their job. Some places have turning targets (timed of course by how long they’re exposed), others are stationary like ours and timed with a timer and whistle. I’ve heard rumor a new course of fire has been developed but not sure if or when it’ll come online.

Pistols do vary, currently we have the latest contract pistol, the M&P 9 1.0s. I’ve seen the article about USP Atwater getting those 19Xs, still not sure how that was managed given the current contract for the M&P. Ruger P89DAOs have been standard issue since the mid 90s. The Berettas were Inox 92D Vertecs from the early 2000s and it’s contract wasn’t even finished due to Beretta’s handling of said contract poorly. There was a contract for Ruger P95s after the Berettas but they were never issued due to reliability issues at FLETC. Those are the only standard contract pistols. Anything else was some kind of special purchase. I’ve not even gone over the SORT pistols. Never heard of the H&K USP being used at all.

When the BOP gets a new pistol contract (usually good for 5 yrs) it’s up to the individual institutions to order them, it’s their choice. It should be across the board but I doubt they’ll change that. Thank god we had a warden willing to let up on the funds to get the M&Ps to replace our P89s.

We recently got new 870s, Marine Magnums with 18” barrels, +2 extensions, and rifle sights. They replaced a mix of parkerized Police models with plastic furniture and a few old polished blue/wood stocked models.

[TGS]

I’m a firearms instructor since 2011. Firing from the hip has been dropped years ago, thank god.

Funny, cause they had her doing it last year! What's that usually for? She said it was some sort of assignment or promotion or something....I can't remember, honestly.


If your friend isn’t being timed someone’s not doing their job.

That's what it sounds like. I just looked up the old messages and he said the following for the pistol qual:

"12 rounds at 3 yards and 18 at 7 yards. 21 out of 30 hits needed. Mine doesn't actually time it even though it's supposed to be".

He's at Danbury, IIRC.


Pistols do vary, currently we have the latest contract pistol, the M&P 9 1.0s. I’ve seen the article about USP Atwater getting those 19Xs, still not sure how that was managed given the current contract for the M&P. Ruger P89DAOs have been standard issue since the mid 90s. The Berettas were Inox 92D Vertecs from the early 2000s and it’s contract wasn’t even finished due to Beretta’s handling of said contract poorly. There was a contract for Ruger P95s after the Berettas but they were never issued due to reliability issues at FLETC. Those are the only standard contract pistols. Anything else was some kind of special purchase. I’ve not even gone over the SORT pistols. Never heard of the H&K USP being used at all.

When the BOP gets a new pistol contract (usually good for 5 yrs) it’s up to the individual institutions to order them, it’s their choice. It should be across the board but I doubt they’ll change that. Thank god we had a warden willing to let up on the funds to get the M&Ps to replace our P89s.

We recently got new 870s, Marine Magnums with 18” barrels, +2 extensions, and rifle sights. They replaced a mix of parkerized Police models with plastic furniture and a few old polished blue/wood stocked models.

Gotcha, thanks for the background/process on how it works.

[NH Shooter]

"Obviously, the Tac-13 is not meant to be brought to your eye*, even though that is instinctual when you pick up a shotgun. The best and most effective way of making this work for you is to hold it low and near your hip (NOT against your hip—you might lose your hip that way) when firing. You may not qualify as “expert” when it comes to accuracy, but luckily that isn’t exactly a requirement with a shotgun in close-quarter engagements."

https://www.ballisticmag.com/2018/10/10/remington-v3-tac-13-first-look/

Evidently, this derpbauchery remains widespread, alive and well.

*Yes, this is why they put a vent rib and bead on it, dipshit.

[SouthNarc]

This guy is running one pretty well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cWTSrOSlEE

[GJM]

This guy is running one pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cWTSrOSlEE

That is Travis Tomasie!

[NH Shooter]

This guy is running one pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cWTSrOSlEE

That video is inspiring, and IMO demonstrates the potential for those who put in the time with it.

[TCinVA]

"Obviously, the Tac-13 is not meant to be brought to your eye*, even though that is instinctual when you pick up a shotgun. The best and most effective way of making this work for you is to hold it low and near your hip (NOT against your hip—you might lose your hip that way) when firing. You may not qualify as “expert” when it comes to accuracy, but luckily that isn’t exactly a requirement with a shotgun in close-quarter engagements."

https://www.ballisticmag.com/2018/10/10/remington-v3-tac-13-first-look/

Evidently, this derpbauchery remains widespread, alive and well.

*Yes, this is why they put a vent rib and bead on it, dipshit.

The world seems to have three groups of people.

- People who think shotguns are useless as defensive weapons

- People who think you don't have to aim shotguns

- People who don't eat lead paint and crayons

[LJP]

This guy is running one pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cWTSrOSlEE

The first time I watched that video, I was surprised to see the Aimpoint on a riser... I’ve only ever handled a Tac-14 in a LGS, but a low mount would seem ideal to me. What am I missing?

[GJM]

The first time I watched that video, I was surprised to see the Aimpoint on a riser... I’ve only ever handled a Tac-14 in a LGS, but a low mount would seem ideal to me. What am I missing?

Lots of bore/optic offset, I am betting it was just a mounted optic from an AR he had handy.

[GNRPowdeR]

The first time I watched that video, I was surprised to see the Aimpoint on a riser... I’ve only ever handled a Tac-14 in a LGS, but a low mount would seem ideal to me. What am I missing?More dramatic and allows you to see his face.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[oregon45]

Could it be that mounting the dot higher allows him to zero the dot for close-range targets, while accounting for the steep muzzle rise of the Tac-13?

[JBhunter45]

My guess is to keep the firearm, forearms, and shoulders on the same plane to reduce recoil.
I'm willing to bet Travis Tomasie has more than a few boxes of ammo fired to figure this out.

[JHC]

Somebody is going to lose a hand with one of those things.

More so than the 870 version you think? I could see the risk higher. That Tomasie vid doe.

[JHC]

The world seems to have three groups of people.

- People who think shotguns are useless as defensive weapons

- People who think you don't have to aim shotguns

- People who don't eat lead paint and crayons

I get the impression here the Versa Max has a decent reputation. Do you think so? I'm pretty out of date on the shotties.

[TCinVA]

More so than the 870 version you think? I could see the risk higher. That Tomasie vid doe.

The fact that it feeds itself does make it a more risky weapon. If someone isn't in solid control of the gun it can absolutely go runaway on them...and given how many times I've seen someone's off hand come clean off the gun on a normally stocked shotgun I can see the same thing happening with disastrous consequences on the semi-auto version of this thing.

That strap on the handguard is not optional.

[TCinVA]

I get the impression here the Versa Max has a decent reputation. Do you think so? I'm pretty out of date on the shotties.

Input on them seems mixed. They seem to have a better track record than the Mossberg 930 (I've had exactly one 930 that works properly in class) but I've still seen plenty of reliable reports of issues with guns that would make me choose something else.

[Joe in PNG]

It's been a couple of pages since someone mentioned that this needs to be done to a Browning A5 or Remington 11.
So, this needs to be done to a Browning A5 or Remington 11.

[Drang]

It's been a couple of pages since someone mentioned that this needs to be done to a Browning A5 or Remington 11.
So, this needs to be done to a Browning A5 or Remington 11.

I'm fuzzy on the regs, would that be manufacturing a Short-Barreled Shotgun, or an Any Other Weapon? Or a Destructive Device?

Or is that one of the things that depends on which ATFE rep you get, on which day of the week?

[Bigghoss]

I'm fuzzy on the regs, would that be manufacturing a Short-Barreled Shotgun, or an Any Other Weapon? Or a Destructive Device?

Or is that one of the things that depends on which ATFE rep you get, on which day of the week?

I think he means that a manufacturer needs to make them new. If it's on a virgin receiver it can be done legally. If it's ever had a stock attached then it's a shotgun and can't have less than an 18" barrel without a stamp. So I can't buy a model 11 at a pawn shop and do this without paperwork. But if Remington were to crank out new model 11's and make "firearms" in the same style as the tac-13 that would be OK.

[03RN]

I think sarco had some virgin A5 or M11 receivers up for sale recently.

I believe they need a spring in the buttstock to work though. So it can only get whippet short which can be done legally now.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I wonder if these receivers are compatible with 870 furniture. This gun + tax stamp + Magpul SGA = a pretty sweet SBS setup.....provided it runs.

[Lon]

I wonder if these receivers are compatible with 870 furniture. This gun + tax stamp + Magpul SGA = a pretty sweet SBS setup.....provided it runs.

Hmmmm...... another Aridus Industries adapter, anyone?

[Bigghoss]

Edit: Nevermind. I just woke up.

[NH Shooter]

That strap on the handguard is not optional.

Agreed. No doubt there's some new skills required to operate something like this safely and effectively, but I still think the potential is worth the time and effort to master it.

Hand straps and a sling: you don't hold a Tac-13, you wear it.

[NH Shooter]

Another yahoo demonstrating the Tac-13 ("not a lot of recurl...");


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWG6SaPkPV4

[03RN]

That guy looks scared of the gun

[NH Shooter]

The one useful aspect of the video is that it demonstrates the Tac-13 cycles reliably when held loosely and not shouldered. Both of my 11-87s need to be shouldered to cycle reliably with LE132 00 9-pellet.

The ergonomics of these firearms are obviously a major challenge compared to shotguns with a stock, but I remain convinced that with good technique and some time spent mastering it, they can be mighty effective as a serious PDW. I found this video demonstrating the use of a "recoil strap" on the grip a Shockwave, which seems like a viable means to maintain a consistent grip and better control recoil;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI2Ir8BzPaY

[RevolverRob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI2Ir8BzPaY

He basically advocates a carbine-type hold for the gun and has some recoil management issues with the locked support arm.

I'd advocate a good-old fashioned "push-pull" -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq74aiXn1b4

In a push pull, the stock makes minimal contact with the shoulder anyway. Using a Shockwave/Tac-1X push forward with the strap fairly tight (using the strap as a handstop) with the support hand firmly wrapped around the foreend. Pull back with the firing hand against the grip. I believe that's basically the way 03RN is running his Shockwave and recoil seems just fine. I would just play with push-pull until I got the index consistent and run it.

FWIW, I'm also not an advocate for a locked support arm, because I often use a load-two strong hand reload, which requires that the support hand/arm be pretty mobile and able to hold the shotgun up and re-index quickly. A locked elbow isn't as conducive to this (puts the gun and action further away).

[TCinVA]

I wouldn't want a locked elbow when using a shotgun...especially a shockwave...because it's going to load all that force directly into that joint. I have enough problems with my elbows as it is.

[GJM]

Watching that dude with the Shockwave makes my elbow really hurt. In his passionate argument for low recoil slugs, as having better penetration, he seems to have never heard of Brenneke. Finally, anyone told him we don’t shoot slugs at close steel.

[Sigfan26]

Having run some rounds through a lot of Shockwaves/Tac14’s/insert name here... with push/pull... they are true pussycats. My 329PD and 69 are 100x more violent to shoot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NH Shooter]

Having never fired a Shockwave or Tac-14, I appreciate the insight. Push-pull will obviously be mandatory, though without shoulder contact I'm thinking it will be more like pushing forward with the support arm and anchoring with the firing arm. Maybe just semantics, but I have to think there might be a slight difference in the technique without the benefit of shoulder contact.

[Gabe Suarez]

I dunno...it doesn't seem that complicated, nor something to be so afraid of. The V3 will lilely have a manual of arms just like the Tac-14, except the left hand won't need to operate the action. Hopefully it is a reliable weapon.


https://youtu.be/CewTSo1dYck

[NH Shooter]

Hopefully it is a reliable weapon.

Gabe, I look forward to your review/impressions of the Tac-13.

[NPV]

Asking out of ignorance here but what are the chances this is something that could be Form1'ed and have stock added to it?

I have had my eye on a 14" 11-87 NIB but I just don't know enough about them to feel comfortable buying it. This could solve that problem being a new shotgun with better factory parts availability. Plus vent ribs are sexy.

[Lon]

Asking out of ignorance here but what are the chances this is something that could be Form1'ed and have stock added to it?

I have had my eye on a 14" 11-87 NIB but I just don't know enough about them to feel comfortable buying it. This could solve that problem being a new shotgun with better factory parts availability. Plus vent ribs are sexy.

Could be done easily. Quite a few guys have done so.

[UNK]

I like the bolt release position. Much better position than the 1100's.

[NPV]

Could be done easily. Quite a few guys have done so.

Good to know thanks, looks like I'm going to be in for one of these and a stamp.

[SeriousStudent]

Good to know thanks, looks like I'm going to be in for one of these and a stamp.

I am debating doing exactly that, especially since they have the Form 1's online again with e-file.

But I've already got a Benelli M2 Entry gun in NFA jail - sigh.

[GJM]

I am debating doing exactly that, especially since they have the Form 1's online again with e-file.

But I've already got a Benelli M2 Entry gun in NFA jail - sigh.

Any idea on the form one turn around these days? Expect there will be a brace out soon?

[Talionis]

Any idea on the form one turn around these days? Expect there will be a brace out soon?

My sources indicate it is extremely fast at the moment. Generally measured in days.

[SeriousStudent]

My sources indicate it is extremely fast at the moment. Generally measured in days.

Are you talking about the e-file Form 1's, or the paper ones that were submitted prior to them re-launching the e-file site?

And all my stuff is on a trust, which has definitely been slower here in Texas than filing as an individual. But I have been using a trust since it's a lot easier for estate planning.

Thanks.

[Talionis]

Are you talking about the e-file Form 1's, or the paper ones that were submitted prior to them re-launching the e-file site?

And all my stuff is on a trust, which has definitely been slower here in Texas than filing as an individual. But I have been using a trust since it's a lot easier for estate planning.

Thanks.

I'm referring to e-file, I do not know what current status of paper form 1's is. Trust has actually been faster than individual filing when it comes to form 4 up here in Idaho. Now is a great time to file if you have anything you want to form 1, with the return of e-file, whether you are doing so as an individual or as a trust.

[SeriousStudent]

Thank you, that is very interesting. Trust approvals down here in Texas have definitely been slower that individual submissions on both Form 1's and Form 4's. Just goes to show how different things are, with the the BATFE assigning examiners to specific states.

I'll do a Form 1 e-file this week on a spare lower, just as an experiment. It never hurts to have a spare registered lower for some sort of project gun. I was thinking about a suppressed .22 SBR build anyway, might as well do that.

[GJM]

Very cool case!

https://www.peakcase.com/peakcase-remington-v3-tac13-case.html

[SeriousStudent]

I give you: The Little Monster.


https://www.lightfighter.net/fileSendAction/fcType/0/fcOid/62114706760187525/filePointer/62537507141130730/fodoid/62537507141136421/stream/true/3A9E1D84-60EB-458A-A6BE-3B59C07EB8D2.MOV

This is the five shot portion of the Rolling thunder shotgun drill. On Sunday, I brought both nephews to the HiTS Shotgun class. They did well, and loved the class.

That wee little Remington V3 Tac-13 had been bought by Dagga Boy the previous morning, and was being shot for the first time. Five rounds at five yards, while staying inside the target. I witnessed the shooting, I was working the line as a safety observer all day.

If you have the skills and the upper body strength, it's a interesting proposition in the right environment.

And yeah, I'm submitting the Form 1 as soon as I have the serial number.

[Bigghoss]

Very cool case!

https://www.peakcase.com/peakcase-remington-v3-tac13-case.html

Get your Mariachi on!

[03RN]

I give you: The Little Monster.


https://www.lightfighter.net/fileSendAction/fcType/0/fcOid/62114706760187525/filePointer/62537507141130730/fodoid/62537507141136421/stream/true/3A9E1D84-60EB-458A-A6BE-3B59C07EB8D2.MOV

This is the five shot portion of the Rolling thunder shotgun drill. On Sunday, I brought both nephews to the HiTS Shotgun class. They did well, and loved the class.

That wee little Remington V3 Tac-13 had been bought by Dagga Boy the previous morning, and was being shot for the first time. Five rounds at five yards, while staying inside the target. I witnessed the shooting, I was working the line as a safety observer all day.

If you have the skills and the upper body strength, it's a interesting proposition in the right environment.

And yeah, I'm submitting the Form 1 as soon as I have the serial number.

Nice

I really need to fix my M1 but these are tempting me to put that off.

[Lon]

I give you: The Little Monster.


https://www.lightfighter.net/fileSendAction/fcType/0/fcOid/62114706760187525/filePointer/62537507141130730/fodoid/62537507141136421/stream/true/3A9E1D84-60EB-458A-A6BE-3B59C07EB8D2.MOV



That is not helping me resist the temptation to buy one of those. Once someone comes out w a brace I doubt I’ll be able to resist.

[lwt16]

There's nothing wrong with dumb fun. I will buy a hardwood Tac-14 because 80's. I could get interested in one of these as a gateway to an SBS.

32789

Yeah, I couldn’t resist.

Just need witnesses to protect now.

[ricky_bobby]

^^Looks bad ass man! Now with the release of the Mossberg "night stick" I am probably going to say I am unable to resist one of these cool weapons!

[Lon]

That is not helping me resist the temptation to buy one of those. Once someone comes out w a brace I doubt I’ll be able to resist.

Well, the Ohio legislature done fucked up and ruined this for everyone. They screwed up a paragraph location in a bill they signed. Went from making these unambiguously legal to unambiguously “dangerous ordnance” (sorta our version of NFA). Which means I’ll have to wait until they fix their screwup.

This is why we can’t have nice things - an editing error.

[BobM]

Well, the Ohio legislature done fucked up and ruined this for everyone. They screwed up a paragraph location in a bill they signed. Went from making these unambiguously legal to unambiguously “dangerous ordnance” (sorta our version of NFA). Which means I’ll have to wait until they fix their screwup.

This is why we can’t have nice things - an editing error.

Fabulous. I was going to get one too.

[iveschris]

I sometimes travel to OH so this has interest. Non-shotguns are now considered dangerous devices or things like braces on these non-shotguns (or AR pistols) makes them dangerous devices?
Did a quick Google search and found nothing with any useful details.
Thanks

[BillSWPA]

Well, the Ohio legislature done fucked up and ruined this for everyone. They screwed up a paragraph location in a bill they signed. Went from making these unambiguously legal to unambiguously “dangerous ordnance” (sorta our version of NFA). Which means I’ll have to wait until they fix their screwup.

This is why we can’t have nice things - an editing error.

I live less than 30 minutes from OH so I am interested in details as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lon]

So here’s the deal. Under Ohio law, the legality of the Shockwave was a matter of opinion since Ohio law does not have a provision for a firearm like federal law does. Under Ohio law the shockwave could fall under the definition of a sawed off fire arm. Sawed off firearms under Ohio law are considered dangerous ordnance. Without a license to own dangerous Ordnance from a sheriff they are a felony to possess.

There was a house bill introduced that fixed this gray area of the law. They specifically excluded a firearm under the federal definition of a firearm from the definition of a sawed off firearm. They were also going to specifically exclude the definition of a firearm using the federal language from the definition of a dangerous ordinance. However due to a editing error, instead of putting that definition under the exclusion from dangerous ordnance they added it to what the definition of a dangerous ordnance is.

So now what was a gray area in the law is now clearly a felony for people to possess a shockwave type firearm. The buckeye firearms association is aware of the year and is going to try and fix it after the first of the year. The problem is the bill that went to the governor‘s desk has that definition in the wrong spot. So if he signs that or if he vetoes it and the house and senate override his veto then there are a lot of people in Ohio that own a shockwave already who will now be felons.

So here is the substitute bill that was sent to the governors office. You’ll want to scroll down to the 2923.11 section. The underlined parts are what the added. K(7) should have been added under L(7).

http://www.capwiz.com/buckeyefirearms/webreturn/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cqstatetrack.com%2Ftexis%2Fr edir%3Fid%3D591cf215a23%26rtype%3Dtext

[iveschris]

Lon, thanks for taking the time to post the clarification. Chris Ives

[GJM]

At our match today, ended up squadded with Cody from Vang Comp. They say the V3 is well designed, reliable and they are working on sights for it.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

At our match today, ended up squadded with Cody from Vang Comp. They say the V3 is well designed, reliable and they are working on sights for it.

Good to hear, still need to see DB the next time I’m in D for hands on w/ his & sights you say.

Something that VCS might add to a customers gun or a complete package on a V3 bought from them?

[1slow]

Shot my V3 Tac-13 today about 80 rounds. Mixed feelings.
Fiocchi OOB 1300fps ran flawlessly.
Federal 00B Flight Control had 1 failure to eject in 5 rounds.

I liked the vent rib barrel better than the Tac-14 , 870 plain barrel. It seemed easier to line up.

Sometimes pulling back the bolt handle would chamber a round sometimes not ? I need to work on a manual of arms. It did not seem to want to respond in a consistent way to the same manipulations. Probably operator error.

Once a round is chambered it shoots smoothly.

Federal 00B Flight Control at 7 yards is < 2" pattern. This was consistent. For scale the head is 6" wide.

33337

My 870 Tac-14 is much faster to get firing from chamber empty. V3 Tac-13 seems easier to fire fast once chambered. Shotgun safeties suck, so I need a fast reliable way to chamber a round.

Will Vang Comp 870 dome safeties work in the V3 ?

Using push /pull it was easy to transition between targets.

[jellydonut]

Reading the manual, that should not happen unless you have accidentally operated the magazine cutoff button.

[1slow]

Reading the manual, that should not happen unless you have accidentally operated the magazine cutoff button.

Thank you. Hopefully that was it. I will test again and see if I was inadvertently hitting the magazine release button.

[NH Shooter]

Federal 00B Flight Control had 1 failure to eject in 5 rounds.



8-pellet? My 1187s will not cycle that load reliably, but 9-pellet reduced-reoil is no problem.

[1slow]

8-pellet? My 1187s will not cycle that load reliably, but 9-pellet reduced-reoil is no problem.

8 pellet 00B.

[Lon]

So here’s the deal. Under Ohio law, the legality of the Shockwave was a matter of opinion since Ohio law does not have a provision for a firearm like federal law does. Under Ohio law the shockwave could fall under the definition of a sawed off fire arm. Sawed off firearms under Ohio law are considered dangerous ordnance. Without a license to own dangerous Ordnance from a sheriff they are a felony to possess.

There was a house bill introduced that fixed this gray area of the law. They specifically excluded a firearm under the federal definition of a firearm from the definition of a sawed off firearm. They were also going to specifically exclude the definition of a firearm using the federal language from the definition of a dangerous ordinance. However due to a editing error, instead of putting that definition under the exclusion from dangerous ordnance they added it to what the definition of a dangerous ordnance is.

So now what was a gray area in the law is now clearly a felony for people to possess a shockwave type firearm. The buckeye firearms association is aware of the year and is going to try and fix it after the first of the year. The problem is the bill that went to the governor‘s desk has that definition in the wrong spot. So if he signs that or if he vetoes it and the house and senate override his veto then there are a lot of people in Ohio that own a shockwave already who will now be felons.

So here is the substitute bill that was sent to the governors office. You’ll want to scroll down to the 2923.11 section. The underlined parts are what the added. K(7) should have been added under L(7).

http://www.capwiz.com/buckeyefirearms/webreturn/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cqstatetrack.com%2Ftexis%2Fr edir%3Fid%3D591cf215a23%26rtype%3Dtext

Well Ohioans and neighbors, the governor vetoed the bill, but the House and Senate overrode the veto. So unless they get the law fixed by March these will unequivocally be no bueno in Ohio.

[1slow]

Reading the manual, that should not happen unless you have accidentally operated the magazine cutoff button.

Exactly what happened, got that sorted and no further issues.

[1slow]

Thoughts on running V3 Tac-13 vs 870 Tac-14
I have 500 + rounds through 870 Tac-14 and 150+ through V3 Tac-13.
At about 80 rounds of buckshot I have had enough for 1 session. Up to that point it doesn't bother my arthritis. V3 seems to have slightly less recoil.

I do not trust shotgun safeties so I am interested in how to get the V3 Tac-13 running from cruiser ready ( tube loaded chamber empty).
With a shouldered weapon I keep a firing grip and do all the work possible with the support hand.

With the V3 Tac-13 coming up from ready and using the support hand to run the bolt puts a lot of weight on your firing hand and there is no butt stock to help balance and control the weapon.

As an alternative for the V3 Tac-13:
It seems that, safety off, with the tube loaded and a shell released to sit on the lifter, if you push the fore end toward the target with the support hand, while hooking the bolt handle with your firing hand you can chamber a round quickly and let your firing hand grasp the pistol grip in a firing position as the V3 moves forward. Just keep finger off trigger until you need to shoot.

At this point, for me, the 870 Tac-14 pump is somewhat faster to go from chamber empty to shot fired. This may be a training issue.

Once you are in the shooting, chamber loaded is fine just be muzzle aware. But to me getting the first shot off quickly, safely and accurately from an empty chamber is critical.

V3 seems faster for multiple shots on 1 target or on targets close to each other. If the targets are far apart the pump seems as fast.

Any thoughts ?

[BobM]

Well Ohioans and neighbors, the governor vetoed the bill, but the House and Senate overrode the veto. So unless they get the law fixed by March these will unequivocally be no bueno in Ohio.

That was disappointing. BFA seems to be confident they can get that fixed before March. We’ll see.

[03RN]

Thoughts on running V3 Tac-13 vs 870 Tac-14
I have 500 + rounds through 870 Tac-14 and 150+ through V3 Tac-13.
At about 80 rounds of buckshot I have had enough for 1 session. Up to that point it doesn't bother my arthritis. V3 seems to have slightly less recoil.

I do not trust shotgun safeties so I am interested in how to get the V3 Tac-13 running from cruiser ready ( tube loaded chamber empty).
With a shouldered weapon I keep a firing grip and do all the work possible with the support hand.

With the V3 Tac-13 coming up from ready and using the support hand to run the bolt puts a lot of weight on your firing hand and there is no butt stock to help balance and control the weapon.

As an alternative for the V3 Tac-13:
It seems that, safety off, with the tube loaded and a shell released to sit on the lifter, if you push the fore end toward the target with the support hand, while hooking the bolt handle with your firing hand you can chamber a round quickly and let your firing hand grasp the pistol grip in a firing position as the V3 moves forward. Just keep finger off trigger until you need to shoot.

At this point, for me, the 870 Tac-14 pump is somewhat faster to go from chamber empty to shot fired. This may be a training issue.

Once you are in the shooting, chamber loaded is fine just be muzzle aware. But to me getting the first shot off quickly, safely and accurately from an empty chamber is critical.

V3 seems faster for multiple shots on 1 target or on targets close to each other. If the targets are far apart the pump seems as fast.

Any thoughts ?

I typically like to do everything with my support hand also but... Let's talk this out.

Are you saying that you absolutely do not trust shotgun safeties and plan on walking with this gun with the chamber empty and only racking the slide when you think you'll need it or are you just talking storage?

Either way I guess I think you'd be ok to use your firing hand to rack the bolt if you don't feel you can support it enough.

That way your support hand can wrap around the entire gun and you can yank on that bolt like you mean it. As you release the bolt your hand will be going to the grip and with these guns you control them with your support hand anyways. At least I do. Of my 2 hands I think having the strongest grip with my support hand is the most important.

[1slow]

I typically like to do everything with my support hand also but... Let's talk this out.

Are you saying that you absolutely do not trust shotgun safeties and plan on walking with this gun with the chamber empty and only racking the slide when you think you'll need it or are you just talking storage?

Either way I guess I think you'd be ok to use your firing hand to rack the bolt if you don't feel you can support it enough.

That way your support hand can wrap around the entire gun and you can yank on that bolt like you mean it. As you release the bolt your hand will be going to the grip and with these guns you control them with your support hand anyways. At least I do. Of my 2 hands I think having the strongest grip with my support hand is the most important.


I agree with you on the support hand being the most controlling hand with these short weapons.

Typically the way I run AR/AK/FAL is that: when in a car rack etc... the chamber is empty, magazine is loaded and in gun. When I wear it, I chamber a round and engage the safety.
I am aware that I need to be careful that my gear does not deactivate the safety.

With a shotgun I have less faith in the safety and am reluctant to have it routinely slung with a round chambered. These short weapons can easily point at a body part while slung.

I am not planning on walking around chamber empty while hunting a problem, but, I do want the fastest surest way to get the Tac-13 V3 firing from chamber empty, tube loaded.

With a pump it seems easier and faster to go from empty chamber to loaded chamber and firing as necessary.

[LittleBill]

34330

Mossberg Shockwave with SIG pistol brace, Surefire forend, Aimpoint H2 on Larue Legacy mount

[Gabe Suarez]

OK...so we got one and we have been working with it for a bit now. I am not going to get into the "I hate Remington" discussion nor the "is it legal" discussions, and will leave those to the guys with far more internet time than I. I will focus on what I see and what can be made better. And every single mass produced weapon can and should be made better by the end user who wants excellence and performance. If the factories made them "perfect", very few would buy them and the rest would complain about the price. So....

Its about the same size, length and weight as the tac-14 but seems "beefier". It shoots very nicely, and recoil is lessened somewhat from the tac-14 as expected. I shot it with a variety of loads including bird shot, reduced recoil and some horrendous Winchester 12 pellet magnums from the old days. No stoppages at all. The handguard is a little slippery and is screaming for a stipple master to get his welding iron out. I dumped the handguard sling straight away. Overall, a very nice little blaster and a good alternative for the guys that don't like pump actions.

What I would change - and likely will.

1). IMHO a stockless weapon like this benefits from slug sights. (BTW, for the guy in the back of the room that just raised his hand - I am not interested in debating whether the shotgun is aimed or pointed or whatever). The bead is OK but lacking that additional set of contact points on cheek and shoulder, misalignment is easy. If the eye has a rear sight and a front sight, that likelihood is lessened. And unless you have those anchor points a ghost ring is too slow. I will find a way to add such sights to the Tac-13 barrel, but it doesn't look easy at this juncture. A "best practice" may be a "brace" and Ghost Rings. And of course...being the red dot guy, I will probably add an RMR.

2). On braces. We took one of our 870 braces and it sort of fits. We had to work on the grip so it would fit better, but a dedicated Tac-13 unit needs to be made. There are enough differences between it and the 870 that its not an easy fit. The Spacer that allows the use of an 870 grip lengthens the distance between the trigger and the grip. Dudes with short fingers will hate the gun with a brace.

3). Other stuff. Factory guns come with miniscule controls. This one is no exception. It needs a bigger safety (870s won't work), a bigger bolt knob, larger bolt release. And at first glance, parts from a regular Versamax are not the same. I notice that GG&G already has some stuff. Other companies as well as mine will likely make stuff as well for this. The big heavy mag tube retainer came off and I replaced it with a smaller and lighter Magpul unit. 870 Mag tubes aren't quite a perfect fit either.

4). Other other stuff. Back to the handguard. This gun is screaming for a better handguard...something rougher and easier to grab onto...perhaps with M-lock attachments for a light and such. As it is, it looks like an afterthought taken off a Versamax duck gun.

OK...that was short and sweet...more to follow. I did this one short video on the brace applied to the V3.

https://vimeo.com/311286183


https://vimeo.com/311286183

[Tactical Black Belt]

I stippled my Tac-14 with a wood burning tool. I used the large rounded rod that makes 3/16" craters. It makes a pattern that looks a lot like a honeycomb only not quite as symmetrical. This provides a VERY positive grip but it is not for guys with soft hands.

[Bigghoss]

Suarez International has folding brace adapters for the Tac-13.

https://suarezinternational.com/suarez-tac-13-folding-hinge-and-grip-system-12ga/

Adapter package with brace of your choice.
https://suarezinternational.com/suarez-tac-13-v3-folding-arm-brace-system-for-12-gauge/

[Blades]

I saw a similar product from a company called black aces tactical it’s a semi auto for $449. Here is a link to some info if anyone is interested.

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/10/15/black-aces-tactical-announces-the-new-449-pro-series-s-shockwave-semi/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did anyone try the Black Aces Tactical one (https://www.blackacestactical.com/product-page/no-nfa-no-aow-shockwave-semi-synthetic)?

[fatdog]

Necro thread, during the pandemic and Remington bankruptcy these Tac13's disappeared completely except for used, or old inventory items people wanted silly scalper prices for.

Now they are back on the market again and available, I am seeing GB prices as low as $1K which considering inflation since 2018 is not so crazy.

What was the consensus of those who actually bought and ran these things? Do they run? Well balanced for what it is? As easy as the Shockwave stocked 870's to shoot?

And yes I know about all the various Turkish variants, "firearms" that are still under $600, but I have no interest in those.

[rathos]

Dagga boy seemed to like them. I would take his word as gospel.



Necro thread, during the pandemic and Remington bankruptcy these Tac13's disappeared completely except for used, or old inventory items people wanted silly scalper prices for.

Now they are back on the market again and available, I am seeing GB prices as low as $1K which considering inflation since 2018 is not so crazy.

What was the consensus of those who actually bought and ran these things? Do they run? Well balanced for what it is? As easy as the Shockwave stocked 870's to shoot?

And yes I know about all the various Turkish variants, "firearms" that are still under $600, but I have no interest in those.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Dagga boy seemed to like them. I would take his word as gospel.

Have a Tac-14 but may replace it w/ a 13, recall where you saw DB opining on them?

[1slow]

…..l

[rathos]

His facebook and maybe a primary and secondary podcast...


**EDIT** Also see post 132 in this thread...

Have a Tac-14 but may replace it w/ a 13, recall where you saw DB opining on them?

[lwt16]

There was video of DB running said weapon. I think it was at his and WD’s training facility. Not sure.

DB could lay the hate with that thing.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

There was video of DB running said weapon. I think it was at his and WD’s training facility. Not sure.

DB could lay the hate with that thing.

Correct, taken many classes there since 2014 as Carrolton PD owns the facility IIRC.

[TCinVA]

What was the consensus of those who actually bought and ran these things?


I have not bought one, but I have run one.

It is a radically different experience than using the normal pump-action Shockwave guns. My shooting with one was limited, but it was much easier to run effectively and didn't load as much recoil into your wrist and elbow as the pump gun. The semi-automatic function really seems to make the gun much friendlier in the recoil and volume use department. Just as an example, I ran essentially the first half of an El Pres and I wasn't a whole lot slower with the Tac-13 than I was with a stocked 1301.

I've thought about buying one and setting it up with an optic ever since. The reason I haven't is because:



Do they run?


That seems to be hit or miss just like the full-sized shotgun they are based on. Some report theirs works great. Some report it worked great for a while and then developed problems. Some have never had it work well for them.

I don't think there are a lot of them out there getting used on a serious basis so it's hard to tell.

A grand or so won't make a big difference in my lifestyle, but I haven't to run one bad enough to gamble that much money on it. After all, that used to be 1301 money. And now it's A300UP money. And both of those guns are eminently more practical for my use.



Well balanced for what it is? As easy as the Shockwave stocked 870's to shoot?


Considerably better than a pump action not-a-shotgun to shoot, in my limited experience behind one.

[rathos]

I strolled into a local gun store looking for a .357 lever gun and saw one of these on the wall for less than I have seen them online. Decided to pick it up along with the lever gun. Hopefully I can get to a range where I can give it a whirl (my local range doesn't allow shotguns). I will say the vent rib puts the front bead in a much better place than the shockwave or the tac-14 sits.

[rathos]

I am still waiting on my Demonstrated Concepts strap and sling, but I got the rest setup for hard use:

113334
113335

[Lon]

I am still waiting on my Demonstrated Concepts strap and sling, but I got the rest setup for hard use:

113334
113335

WHO makes the two shot card?

[rathos]

it was from 3gungear.com which I think is out of business as I can't find their website. Not sure if anywhere still sells their stuff.


WHO makes the two shot card?

[Lon]

it was from 3gungear.com which I think is out of business as I can't find their website. Not sure if anywhere still sells their stuff.

That’s what I was afraid of. Thanks.

[Grouse870]

I was looking for some 2 round cards as well. I found this company
https://www.ten21tactical.com/shop/p/2-shot-shotgun-card
Haven’t ordered any though

[jandbj]

I am still waiting on my Demonstrated Concepts strap and sling, but I got the rest setup for hard use:

113334
113335

Planning to add an optic too or trying the vent rib first?

[rathos]

I am going to see how the vent rib and bead work first. I might try a fiber optic front, but I am not sure I need a red dot yet.... It is drilled and tapped so it shouldn't be too hard if I decide to go that way.


Planning to add an optic too or trying the vent rib first?

[rathos]

had some questions about the shell holder so here are some pics:

113643
113644
113645
113646

[1slow]

Shot my V3 Tac 13 today.
10 rounds Fiochi 2 3/4" 00B 9 pellet. Mild, worked well.

10 Rounds S&B 2 3/4" 00B 12 pellet. Lot of recoil, borderline controllable, slows down repeat shots a lot.

Makes me wonder how bad 3" 00B 15 pellet would be , ouch !


I want to add:
Bigger safety, live Vang Comp dome,
Bigger shell release.

Is it legal to put a grip on the forend. I almost want something like the FN P90 donut forward grip.

I want to be able to take recoil in the web of support hand and not on the side of a twisted wrist. I do bot want to mess up the way the Tac 13 flows into position.

DEMONSTRATED CONCEPTS used a light mounted at 9:00 as a hand stop, wrapping support side thumb over barrel. This may be the best least obtrusive option.


Any thoughts ?

[Hambo]

Any thoughts ?

Form 1 that thing.

[1slow]

Do not want Form 1.

[Bigghoss]

Just found out Mesa Tactical makes an adapter to put an AR buffer tube on the V3/tac-13. For the Tac-13 you also have to get a shim for an extra $15. But that would let a person put a brace on one of these without having to SBS it. I have one of their adapters on a Tac-14 and it seems like a good product so far.

https://mesatactical.com/products/leo-gen-ii-telescoping-stock-adapter-for-rem-v3-12-ga.html

[draftpick]

Just found out Mesa Tactical makes an adapter to put an AR buffer tube on the V3/tac-13. For the Tac-13 you also have to get a shim for an extra $15. But that would let a person put a brace on one of these without having to SBS it. I have one of their adapters on a Tac-14 and it seems like a good product so far.

https://mesatactical.com/products/leo-gen-ii-telescoping-stock-adapter-for-rem-v3-12-ga.html

Not to muddy the waters but do some investigation on a bracing a shotgun.

https://genesisarms.com/the-genesis-chronicles/braces-and-the-gen12/

[Screwball]

Not to muddy the waters but do some investigation on a bracing a shotgun.

https://genesisarms.com/the-genesis-chronicles/braces-and-the-gen12/

Unfortunately, it is not that easy…

When these “not-shotguns” were originally approved by ATF, three were listed by name; Mossberg Shockwave, Remington TAC-14 and the Black Aces DT. The Black Aces DT was a braced firearm that had a folding brace… stated by ATF to meet the requirements of the “other firearm” classification (no stock ever, designed to be fired with two hands and overall length 26+”).

Then after numerous letters to ATF about AR pistols with vertical grips and folding braces (OAL over 26” and fired by two hands puts it into other firearm territory over AR pistol)… ATF ruled that braces are not measured in unfolded position, but folded. This is a move away from the common practice of OAL being measured with stocks extended… and since it wasn’t a stock, ATF rewrote their opinion. Mind you, people with folding DTs now had unregistered AOWs and Black Aces offered a conversion to the fixed brace adapter to make it legal.

Then the good old brace decision came up… and they were viewed as stocks. But to twist the knife a little more, ATF decided that because you don’t shoot those firearms with one hand… you cannot legally put a brace on it. That meant that all the ones with legally purchased other firearms with braces had illegal SBSs. This is what that linked article from an other firearm manufacturer touches on.

My TAC-14 got screwed over twice; had the folding brace originally, then a fixed brace after that. I SBSed it and have a Magpul stock on it.

But considering there was a stay on the rule change a few months back, braced other firearms should be good until a decision is made. ATF can’t enforce the rule and with the opinion of the brace not being allowed on a firearm designed to be fired with two hands… it appears to be a part of the stay. But I’m not a lawyer, didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express and don’t have a firearm that fits in this category to worry about.

[draftpick]

Unfortunately, it is not that easy…

When these “not-shotguns” were originally approved by ATF, three were listed by name; Mossberg Shockwave, Remington TAC-14 and the Black Aces DT. The Black Aces DT was a braced firearm that had a folding brace… stated by ATF to meet the requirements of the “other firearm” classification (no stock ever, designed to be fired with two hands and overall length 26+”).

Then after numerous letters to ATF about AR pistols with vertical grips and folding braces (OAL over 26” and fired by two hands puts it into other firearm territory over AR pistol)… ATF ruled that braces are not measured in unfolded position, but folded. This is a move away from the common practice of OAL being measured with stocks extended… and since it wasn’t a stock, ATF rewrote their opinion. Mind you, people with folding DTs now had unregistered AOWs and Black Aces offered a conversion to the fixed brace adapter to make it legal.

Then the good old brace decision came up… and they were viewed as stocks. But to twist the knife a little more, ATF decided that because you don’t shoot those firearms with one hand… you cannot legally put a brace on it. That meant that all the ones with legally purchased other firearms with braces had illegal SBSs. This is what that linked article from an other firearm manufacturer touches on.

My TAC-14 got screwed over twice; had the folding brace originally, then a fixed brace after that. I SBSed it and have a Magpul stock on it.

But considering there was a stay on the rule change a few months back, braced other firearms should be good until a decision is made. ATF can’t enforce the rule and with the opinion of the brace not being allowed on a firearm designed to be fired with two hands… it appears to be a part of the stay. But I’m not a lawyer, didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express and don’t have a firearm that fits in this category to worry about.

For me in my communication with a mfr is the ATF says now a shotgun cannot be a pistol, they have changed their veiws, but yes with the court stay everything is up in the air. They the mfr believes that when then dust settles shotguns will not be pistols and anything other than a birdshead will have to be a SBS