Permitted Pistol Optics

[Zincwarrior]

The new weapons policy came over the email for the county. It's now permissable to have pistol optics. Do you find that to be a common policy now? As LEOs how do you feel about pistol optics?

Edit: approved optics are specified, and backup iron sights are required. The duty rifles have similar requirement s but only list approved optic manufacturers.

[feudist]

I'm going to give them a....shot.

[psalms144.1]

Our latest policy revision still lists optics as "competition only modifications" and thereby prohibited for duty use. That same applies to optics of any kind for carbines (sigh).

[HCM]

The new weapons policy came over the email for the county. It's now permissable to have pistol optics. Do you find that to be a common policy now? As LEOs how do you feel about pistol optics?

Edit: approved optics are specified, and backup iron sights are required. The duty rifles have similar requirement s but only list approved optic manufacturers.

Increasingly common at the local level, especially in TX, with Houston PD being the largest example.

At the federal level the U.S. Marshals have apparently approved RDS on personally owned Weapons (POW). DHS / ICE has approved the 17/19 MOS as POWs and is doing testing for a list of approved optics. DHS /CBP (includes Border Patrol) has made modular optics mounting a requirement for their current test/ solicitation for new issued duty guns.

I’m familiar with a TX based SRT / SWAT team running issued G 34 MOS with RMRs. The biggest issue with the MOS system seems to be proper mounting. Glock compounds this issue by continuing to provide screws that are too long with their MOS kits and by failing to specify torque values. Hand tight means different things to different people. When mounted properly the MOS seems to hold up better than its early reputation would indicate.

[TC215]

Increasingly common at the local level, especially in TX, with Houston PD being the largest example.

At the federal level the U.S. Marshals have apparently approved RDS on personally owned Weapons (POW). DHS / ICE has approved the 17/19 MOS as POWs and is doing testing for a list of approved optics. DHS /CBP (includes Border Patrol) has made modular optics mounting a requirement for their current test/ solicitation for new issued duty guns.

I’m familiar with a TX based SRT / SWAT team running issued G 34 MOS with RMRs. The biggest issue with the MOS system seems to be proper mounting. Glock compounds this issue by continuing to provide screws that are too long with their MOS kits and by failing to specify torque values. Hand tight means different things to different people. When mounted properly the MOS seems to hold up better than its early reputation would indicate.

Yep, several of our local Marshals have been running them for a year or so.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Pistol Mounted Optics, the new and official LAPD term, are coming on all over the country. LAPD hosted a very well done symposium a couple of weeks ago with all the major handgun and handgun optics companies in attendance. We had pre-event survey instruments, post-event surveys, discussion, demo shooting and more discussion. LAPD are undertaking a comprehensive study, test and evaluation of PMOs and will make their results available. If LAPD does it, the rest of us generally do also, so stand by.

It's going to be a great step forward, I think and not just because I work for Aimpoint.

[Magsz]

Pistol Mounted Optics, the new and official LAPD term, are coming on all over the country. LAPD hosted a very well done symposium a couple of weeks ago with all the major handgun and handgun optics companies in attendance. We had pre-event survey instruments, post-event surveys, discussion, demo shooting and more discussion. LAPD are undertaking a comprehensive study, test and evaluation of PMOs and will make their results available. If LAPD does it, the rest of us generally do also, so stand by.

It's going to be a great step forward, I think and not just because I work for Aimpoint.

Nah, we can't have any progress here. "

We have to cater to the lowest common denominator and those red dots mean that Deputies WONT be able to transition from a red dot back to iron sights on their off duty pistols!"

I really wish that above quote wasn't true...

Im hoping the concept gains more and more traction if only to prove to the higher ups that they were wrong. Yeah, I'm spiteful. :P

[Erick Gelhaus]

I'm fine with it. I carried a RDS / PMO equipped pistol for a year. Unfortunately then, a few years back, the reliability was not there. I'm going to re-visit it. The biggest thing holding me back is that Unity never went commercial with the M&P version of their Atom mount (see DocGKR's guns) and that Agency Arms hasn't released their M&P version. I'm not willing to machine a slide for just one footprint.

Like WML dimensions, the end user and holster manf communities would GREATLY benefit from the adoption of a common footprint (size) standard.

I've probably got 6 or 7 out of 300 carried RDS / PMO pistols on duty now. That will only increase.

Our policies allows their adoption & use.

[lwt16]

Not a chance here.

Our next qualification (yearly) is now reduced to one attempt (50 rounds) for people that score the minimum. You have to shoot less than an 80 to get your second attempt.

For years, policy has dictated that each sworn gets two attempts to turn in their best score. Since you can't drag most of these guys to the range, the yearly qual is the ONLY time they fire their duty weapon in practice. Now, if you eek out that 80 on your first try....you are done until next year.

Cause ammo cost money, you know.

MRDs on pistols? Forget it. No way they will lay out the cash for something durable. Our patrol sticks are irons only.

Agency is about 400 sworn so the mathematics of the budgetary impact of RDS transition will kill the idea for years to come.

Regards.

[Jim Watson]

I'm not willing to machine a slide for just one footprint.

Like WML dimensions, the end user and holster manf communities would GREATLY benefit from the adoption of a common footprint (size) standard.

.

I've been saying that about iron sights for years; why pay a hundred bucks of machine time for a stylish fixed sight?
Dots are only making it worse; get the best on the market now and not only the sight but the whole slide will be obsolete next year.

[psalms144.1]

I've been saying that about iron sights for years; why pay a hundred bucks of machine time for a stylish fixed sight?
Dots are only making it worse; get the best on the market now and not only the sight but the whole slide will be obsolete next year.Couldn't agree more. Even if I had the scratch to tried out a MRDS on a pistol, I'd have to use the marginally OK MOS system in the hopes of not having to ruin a slide trying the "wrong" optic.

Sooner or later, one would hope, manufacturers will figure out that if there's not a standard footprint, they're going to have a hard time getting the general public to dip their toe in these expensive waters...

[Wayne Dobbs]

I think that in five years we'll be in a completely different place on mounting interfaces. Hopefully, there can be some kind of standardization on this. But, in the interim, you CAN make MOS work and therefore maintain some flexibility on your optics choices. It's a matter of materials (cast plates are probably not a good idea), proper length screws, thread prep routines, thread sealants, proper torque, etc. In other words, it's just like the careful routines you do for a precision optic on a serious use rifle/carbine.

We are in the learning curve on this and we will divine out the way.

[Vista461]

We don’t have a policy regarding one way or the other. We supply our own duty guns and I don’t see many people I work with being enough of a gun guy or gal to float out the cash for the optic and either milling their gun or buying a optic ready gun.

Probably the closest would be me, but that’d be a ways off due to cost.

[Coyotesfan97]

We are in the process of doing a street T&E for final approval for Officers. I’m one of the testers. I’m using a G17 gen 4 MOS and a Delta Point Pro. Trijicon RMR is the other option.

I’ve got 2000 + rounds through mine with one battery change. I love it with my older eyes and glasses.

Like our 1911 program Officers will have to buy the gun and holster for it. Options are a factory MOS cutout or there are approved gunsmiths for the cutout.

[UNM1136]

Have been trying to get the Brass onboard for the last 18 months. NO interest. "We don't think we need to be exploring this technology at this time...."did one of those 10 minute presentations for my last Firearms Instructor Updates on MRDS on pistols and had chiefs of police and senior DPS Master Instuctors nodding with my points and taking notes, and asking for references. Several of the instructional old guard were making accusations of buying skill or needing a crutch. In reality, all but one of them have absolutely no input into authorized depertmental equipment and training. The one may not be too huge an obsticle. Everyone who has handled and shot the piece has loved it.

Current plan: Current SOP never saw this possibility, so there is nothing against it. All weapons must be approved by the Firearms Staff on an individual basis before being submitted to the Chief for final approval. I am1/3 of the Firearms Staff, and that particular gun is already approved by the Chief for duty, backup, and off duty carry. I have shot the off duty qualification with it, with the optic, and am carrying it regularly. I have added lasergrips to ALL my duty pistols as long as I have been emplyed by this agency, and added them POST approval as accessories. And our rifle poicy explicity permits lasers, red dot, and magnified optics, and for as long as we have bee issuing rifles they have been issued with Eotechs and Aimpoints, depending on what was cheaper on the state contract. I will be qualifying with a MRDS equiped pistol next summer and be carrying it afterwards. The Chief will be retired and when the new one comes in It will be in my holster for duty.

Also wanting a ACRO and a G19 Gen 5 for a Roland Build, and a G34 duty holster.

pat