Leaked: HK VP9B - Button Mag Release

[FPS]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/10/02/push-button-magazine/


From the leaked document, it appears that the VP9-B will have an MSRP of $719 and will be available with either 15 round or 10 round magazines for certain restricted areas. The push button isn’t ambidextrous, but it is reversible for those with the south-paw disease.

I am a fan of the paddle release but hopefully this will help HK sell some more guns.

[SecondsCount]

I agree, the paddle works fine for me, but there are some shooters and agencies that are stuck on the button release.

[BigT]

Played with these at IWA last year. Personally I preferred the button to the paddle.

[HCountyGuy]

I’ll admit my biggest gripe about HKs was the paddle release, until I took on my P30 and started running it. Every now and then I get hung up on it but it’s not so bad once you get used to it. I can still easily switch between running the paddle on an HK and button on my Glock.

Like SecondsCount said though, some people are stubborn about their preference to button and I could see this helping HK move more guns and possibly secure a few more LE contracts.

[hufnagel]

... gettin' really tired of people thinking being left-handed is a disease...

[5pins]

... gettin' really tired of people thinking being left-handed is a disease...

I think it technically classified as a disorder or abnormality. :D

[GJM]

Same mags or different?

[hufnagel]

I think it technically classified as a disorder or abnormality. :D

you know what one of the best parts about being leftie is? no one sees the pimp hand a'comin'. :D

[Criz]

No thanks.
It is one of the best parts of an HK.
I hope they don't try and get into the "let's move a lot of product" market. Industry is filled with them already.

[Greg]

#ButtonMasterRace (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=ButtonMasterRace)

[Nephrology]

I think it technically classified as a disorder or abnormality. :D

I always thought it was the consequence of living in sin.

[O4L]

Maybe this has something to do with the VP9 being priced much lower lately. I've seen them around $500 in a couple of places online.

[HCM]

Maybe this has something to do with the VP9 being priced much lower lately. I've seen them around $500 in a couple of places online.

This has existed for some time. The public release may be due to flagging sales but it was developed because HK was losing and in some cases being excluded from GOV and LE contracts due to the paddle release.

The VP9 performed the best of the three passing candidates in the TX DPS pistol trials but officially lost the contract to SIGs P320 because of the paddle mag release.

Both the FBI and DHS /ICE pistol solicitations specifically required a button type mag release.

[Peally]

Buttons are stupid. It's sad they had to bother making this thing due to good old moronic gubment requirements.

[Bigghoss]

I've only ever had one HK, I'm sure with the extended paddle release I would have liked it just fine but at work I'm issued a 92 so I'd like to stick to a similar manual of arms. If they did a USP with a button (they probably won't) I'd have to move it up the list several spots.

[HCountyGuy]

Buttons are stupid. It's sad they had to bother making this thing due to good old moronic gubment requirements.

Lowest common denominator “shooters”. Though I figure if a place like Phenix City, AL can get their officers to run it (VP40) then it can’t be that hard.

At the same time HK is about the only big player using this release and it kinda makes sense to get on board with the standard. Make the gun the people want.

[Bucky]

I really like the paddle release. That being said, I like shooting lots of different types of guns, and commonality of controls is a good thing.

As far as lefties, no reason a button can’t be fully ambidextrous (as opposed to reversible). Look at the Springfield XD.

[hufnagel]

See, being a south paw is better; I have no issues transitioning between paddle and button. I don't even think about it. I don't even switch button sides when possible; in fact I don't understand how you right handers operate button releases, as the thumb isn't that strong at the proximal joint. Lefties just do it better.

Honestly, I don't care if HK wants to make button and paddle mag versions. If it makes them shipping container loads of money, it's all good.

[Bucky]

See, being a south paw is better; I have no issues transitioning between paddle and button. I don't even think about it. I don't even switch button sides when possible

I personally don’t prefer any controls being reversed or ambi, except a safety. While I’m a right handed pistol shooter, some years back I transitioned to being a left handed long gun shooter due to my left eye dominance. Other than an ambi safety, my AR15s have all standard controls. Most of the 3-gun matches I shoot are team matches, so it’s good to be able to adapt to other rifles.

Off topic, I’d want an ambi on an AR regardless of handedness, as I use the off side to apply the safety.

[JRB]

Buttons are stupid. It's sad they had to bother making this thing due to good old moronic gubment requirements.

HK had an old mantra that was something to the effect of 'buy 1000 of them and we'll build you whatever you want'.
On a European LE contract they reversed the safety on the USP so that 'Fire' was in the up position, 'Safe' was in the down position, and decock was down from 'Safe'.

So while it occasionally produces silly stuff - that mantra gave the world the MP5/10, and I'm pretty darn tootin' okay with that.

It'll be interesting to try a VP9 with a button release.

[GJM]

I find it curious that many who advocate for the trigger to be in hard register against the slide, except when shooting, are OK with using the trigger finger to release the magazine. In USPSA, a disproportionate percentage of ND’s are with PCC shooters, almost invariably when they hit the trigger and not the magazine release when executing a fast reload.

[JRB]

I find it curious that many who advocate for the trigger to be in hard register against the slide, except when shooting, are OK with using the trigger finger to release the magazine. In USPSA, a disproportionate percentage of ND’s are with PCC shooters, almost invariably when they hit the trigger and not the magazine release when executing a fast reload.

Perks of being a left-eyed shooter in the Army is that I got really good at using my left hand on the right-side selector, and I use my right thumb on the magazine release.
Not good for a gun-games fast reload, but I never lose magazines or have SERPA-like ND's either... which I have seen, regrettably.

[JonInWA]

HK had an old mantra that was something to the effect of 'buy 1000 of them and we'll build you whatever you want'.
On a European LE contract they reversed the safety on the USP so that 'Fire' was in the up position, 'Safe' was in the down position, and decock was down from 'Safe'.

So while it occasionally produces silly stuff - that mantra gave the world the MP5/10, and I'm pretty darn tootin' okay with that.

It'll be interesting to try a VP9 with a button release.

That wasn't a European LE contract per se (although they may well have been used for that also), but for the German Bundeswehr/German armed forces contract, the USP 9 V8, or the P8. I strongly suspect that it just might be their single largest USP contract and continuing contract. Similarly, the Norwegian police contract was probably single-handedly responsible for the creation of the P30L (with absolutely zero complaints from me).

I don't have any issues with the paddle, and actually quite like them. That said, I'm fine with HK making a button magazine release version. I suspect that in the long run agencies choosing an HK VP over a SIG P320 will be much, much better served with the HK selection, regarding the intrinsic quality of the guns and in the tailorability of the HK grips via the multiple backstraps and side panels included with each individual pistol.

Hopefully (and to echo GJM's question) both variants will use the same magazines-anyone definitively know yet?

Best, Jon

[Cory]

I've never thought of HKs for serious use. Mostly because of the paddle release. Didnt want to relearn what I have down.

-Cory

[JRB]

That wasn't a European LE contract per se (although they may well have been used for that also), but for the German Bundeswehr/German armed forces contract, the USP 9 V8, or the P8. I strongly suspect that it just might be their single largest USP contract and continuing contract. Similarly, the Norwegian police contract was probably single-handedly responsible for the creation of the P30L (with absolutely zero complaints from me).

I don't have any issues with the paddle, and actually quite like them. That said, I'm fine with HK making a button magazine release version. I suspect that in the long run agencies choosing an HK VP over a SIG P320 will be much, much better served with the HK selection, regarding the intrinsic quality of the guns and in the tailorability of the HK grips via the multiple backstraps and side panels included with each individual pistol.

Hopefully (and to echo GJM's question) both variants will use the same magazines-anyone definitively know yet?

Best, Jon

Thank you for the correction - I remembered reading all about that variant but I'm surprised I mixed up the Bundeswehr with European LE.

[JonInWA]

I've never thought of HKs for serious use. Mostly because of the paddle release. Didnt want to relearn what I have down.

-Cory

Cory, it's actually pretty simple, with a close to zero learning curve. The HK magazine release paddles (especially the larger ones on the newer HKs, such as the P30s, VPs and HK45 and 45C) are exceptionally well placed and easy/natural to use. And I've had no difficulties in switching back and forth with button-release pistols after using my HKs.

I think the paddle releases actually require a bit less hand motion/wrist torquing to activate than do many button magazines require.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

Thank you for the correction - I remembered reading all about that variant but I'm surprised I mixed up the Bundeswehr with European LE.

As I recall, the Bundeswehr specified it due to decades of muscle memory and institutional use/training built up associated with the P1/P38 safety lever operation.

Best, Jon

[Peally]

I find it curious that many who advocate for the trigger to be in hard register against the slide, except when shooting, are OK with using the trigger finger to release the magazine. In USPSA, a disproportionate percentage of ND’s are with PCC shooters, almost invariably when they hit the trigger and not the magazine release when executing a fast reload.

No (excessive) offence to those that have done it but you really have to fuck up to pull the trigger on the VP9 instead of dropping a magazine. I have fucked up a lot of things shooting handguns but that has not once been one of them.

I have however seen many NDs due to people having no clue what they're doing.

[Cory]

Cory, it's actually pretty simple, with a close to zero learning curve. The HK magazine release paddles (especially the larger ones on the newer HKs, such as the P30s, VPs and HK45 and 45C) are exceptionally well placed and easy/natural to use. And I've had no difficulties in switching back and forth with button-release pistols after using my HKs.

I think the paddle releases actually require a bit less hand motion/wrist torquing to activate than do many button magazines require.

Best, Jon

I also tend to release magazines with my dominate (Right) hand middle finger. I don't think a paddle will work well for that.

-Cory

[JonInWA]

I also tend to release magazines with my dominate (Right) hand middle finger. I don't think a paddle will work well for that.

-Cory

I experimented with that, along with using my strong hand thumb; both were viable (at least for me), but I naturally seem to defer to using my strong hand index/trigger finger with HK magazine release paddles.

Best, Jon

[GJM]

No (excessive) offence to those that have done it but you really have to fuck up to pull the trigger on the VP9 instead of dropping a magazine. I have fucked up a lot of things shooting handguns but that has not once been one of them.

I have however seen many NDs due to people having no clue what they're doing.

You do know, don’t you, that perhaps the strongest shooter on the HK team did precisely that, leading to a DQ in a match?

[JonInWA]

Dang, George..I hope he wasn't using a Serpa holster as well....

Yeah, give me an opportunity for a cheap line and I'll take it...

Best, Jon

[Peally]

You do know, don’t you, that perhaps the strongest shooter on the HK team did precisely that, leading to a DQ in a match?

So we have a sample of one now at least.

I wonder how many people have shot themselves in the legs with Glocks? Must mean they're defective, they could really use a safety lever.

[EVP]

I don’t see this as a big deal.

I think the trigger guard release on the p30/vp9 is actually faster and prefer it to thumb.

Also I use my middle finger to hit the release on p30/vp9. Works the fastest and is the most reliable way for me.

I am not carrying a HK anymore but never found the trigger guard release to be a hinderamce.

[hufnagel]

I find it curious that many who advocate for the trigger to be in hard register against the slide, except when shooting, are OK with using the trigger finger to release the magazine. In USPSA, a disproportionate percentage of ND’s are with PCC shooters, almost invariably when they hit the trigger and not the magazine release when executing a fast reload.

I use my "social" finger to snag the mag release, regardless of paddle or button. Maybe that works better at preventing oopsie boomies.

[HCountyGuy]

I can easily see how one could inadvertently squeeze off a round using the dominant trigger finger to actuate the mag release on a VP9/P30/HK45 etc. Hell I came close to hitting the trigger a few times (empty gun) when I tried to do it. It’s a lot easier (and safer) for me to use the middle finger to drop the mag with my P30.

Folks coming from the more common button release to the paddle generally tend to look at it and go “This is so dumb and counter-intuitive, who did this?” I know I did when I first fiddled with the VP9. For those who take the time to learn it and appreciate it for its innate ambidexterousness, the paddle release makes sense and has its attractiveness.

However, think of where we are with firearms design these days: keep it so simple a caveman can do it. When the vast majority are making button releases, very few are going to take the time to invest in training on a different system. It’s like striker vs TDA to a degree, which one is easier to work with and teach on for the non-dedicated shooter? Plus, add in the increased potential to ND by using one’s trigger finger to hit the mag release that’s closer to the trigger and one can understand why some would be hesitant to look at HKs.

The important takeaway right now is at least there’s options between the two. I could see them maybe axing the paddle as standard if variant B gets more sales. You’d likely still have the paddle as an option for the “purists”.

[GJM]

I am glad that HK offers a paddle release for those that prefer them. I will be even gladder if HK also offers a button release, and has engineered that button release, as I have heard, so it uses existing P30/VP9 magazines.

I work hard at shooting a range of pistols, have worked hard on multiple model HK pistols, and have found that the paddle release stands between me and the reload speed I see with button release pistols. I would love to see some links of people doing 1.20 and faster reloads with paddle release HK pistols, so I can see what I am doing wrong.

[Peally]

I would love to see some links of people doing 1.20 and faster reloads with paddle release HK pistols, so I can see what I am doing wrong.

The secret sauce is you're not going fast enough :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caGANLJgEgc

My bottleneck on reload speeds is remembering to reach for the mag on my belt with a sporty purpose (and not missing the magwell). You have a lot of time to get the mag out of the gun before it conflicts with something and causes you time (IE the new mag hitting the old one).

[Guinnessman]

I am glad that HK offers a paddle release for those that prefer them. I will be even gladder if HK also offers a button release, and has engineered that button release, as I have heard, so it uses existing P30/VP9 magazines.

I work hard at shooting a range of pistols, have worked hard on multiple model HK pistols, and have found that the paddle release stands between me and the reload speed I see with button release pistols. I would love to see some links of people doing 1.20 and faster reloads with paddle release HK pistols, so I can see what I am doing wrong.

So you are saying there is one of these in your future?:p

[psalms144.1]

So you are saying there is one of these in your future?:pTo go along with the one (or more) of everything else he has?

[GJM]

These days I am shooting a Glock in CO, and don’t have much interest in other stuff.

[Polecat]

Just bring out some new guns, not stupid poop colored frames. I just need a smalller HK for CCW and a VP9 the size of P2000 with the safety and button releaase.

[hufnagel]

so you want a P2000 in button mag.

[45dotACP]

Dang...if this gun hit the shelves before I snagged a M&P and rebarreled it, I would have waited...

I have a soft spot for guns that are extremely accurate, and the VP9 is just such a gun. With a button mag release I'd have bought one already.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[ssb]

Cool. Factory 140mm mags when?

[MGW]

Maybe this means they’ll bring the VP9L to the states soon?

[Balisong]

The secret sauce is you're not going fast enough :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caGANLJgEgc

My bottleneck on reload speeds is remembering to reach for the mag on my belt with a sporty purpose (and not missing the magwell). You have a lot of time to get the mag out of the gun before it conflicts with something and causes you time (IE the new mag hitting the old one).

Very impressive work there. But I think the end of the video will give me nightmares...

[MSparks909]

Am I in the minority of HK shooters that use their thumb to actuate the paddle release? Use it just like a button...no issue

[Mike C]

Am I in the minority of HK shooters that use their thumb to actuate the paddle release? Use it just like a button...no issue

You must have thumbs the length of Peally's toy at the end of his video. Seriously though I would think you are a minority. I myself use trigger finger or pinch technique, (thumb and index). Most people I know or have seen do one of those two.

[Balisong]

Am I in the minority of HK shooters that use their thumb to actuate the paddle release? Use it just like a button...no issue

I do the same, that's why I'm pretty indifferent about button vs paddle. But the paddle has the added advantage of being harder to accidentally release in a holstered gun. The only time I can't use my thumb for the paddle is if a VP/P30 has the biggest grip panels on it

[MSparks909]

You must have thumbs the length of Peally's toy at the end of his video. Seriously though I would think you are a minority. I myself use trigger finger or pinch technique, (thumb and index). Most people I know or have seen do one of those two.

I have M/L hands depending on the glove. To me using my middle or trigger finger feels awkward. I slightly rotate the gun in my grip and drop the msg with my thumb. Same as I do on every other semi-auto pistol I own. To each their own though, use whatever works!

[Wondering Beard]

Am I in the minority of HK shooters that use their thumb to actuate the paddle release? Use it just like a button...no issue

You aren't alone.

[nightstalker865]

Am I in the minority of HK shooters that use their thumb to actuate the paddle release? Use it just like a button...no issue

I use my thumb as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PD Sgt.]

I use my thumb and middle (social interaction) finger to pinch actuate the mag release. My trigger finger indexes the frame. I do however, have big hands/long fingers.

[Mike C]

Looks like I might have spoken too soon. I always found that trying to use the thumb required too much shifting of the gun and more to reattain my grip afterwards I always felt like it was a bunch of unnecessary movement, (concerns for muzzle awareness as well) but it doesn't help that I have midget digits. For those of you with longer thumbs are you still having to shift the gun inboard when using thumbs?

[hufnagel]

injury, arthritis, and hand sizing (in order of decreasing detriment) prevent me from using my thumbs on the paddles. hence my social finger usage.

[MSparks909]

Looks like I might have spoken too soon. I always found that trying to use the thumb required too much shifting of the gun and more to reattain my grip afterwards I always felt like it was a bunch of unnecessary movement, (concerns for muzzle awareness as well) but it doesn't help that I have midget digits. For those of you with longer thumbs are you still having to shift the gun inboard when using thumbs?

Yes I shift the gun inboard slightly but I also do that with all pistols. Gives me more leverage over the mag button/paddle and just feels “natural” for whatever that’s worth. I’m not gonna dive into the whole “shifting vs. not shifting” your grip mag release subject because that’s something worthy of its own thread.

[Mike C]

MSparks909 agreed no point in detracting. Thanks though.

[raks]

Same magazines. You can see the way it works in the manual posted in this HK pro thread: https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/476040-new-vp9-vp9-b-post3422178.html#post34221786

[Doc_Glock]

Same magazines. You can see the way it works in the manual posted in this HK pro thread: https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/476040-new-vp9-vp9-b-post3422178.html#post34221786

Direct link to PDF page 50:

https://www.heckler-koch.com/no_cache/en/service/operator-manuals.html?tx_z7simpledownloads%5Bdownload%5D=10 06

Link to promotional flyer. I can’t figure out how to post as image.

https://www.geekgunman.com/images/PushButton.pdf

“Depending on your shooting style, you can choose between a European-style ambidextrous paddle mag release or the new US-style reversible button.”

HK, in typical German fashion, has figured out how to keep same magazines and give users a choice of unilateral push button or bilateral paddle mag releases. Good on them! I hope the VP9 takes off.

[Bucky]

Same magazines. You can see the way it works in the manual posted in this HK pro thread: https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/476040-new-vp9-vp9-b-post3422178.html#post34221786

Stupid iPad won’t open it. :mad:

Good they used the same magazine, otherwise I’m betting it would hurt sales.

[LOKNLOD]

I wish all pistols had P30/VP9 paddles, but I'm pretty impressed that they made it convertible and not just a whole new mess like Walther did.

[P30]

Berlin police has ordered 24,000 HK SFP9 pistols. They wanted it with a mag button. Then German media reported, Berlin police tested it and complained about accidentally dropping mags.

focus.de/finanzen/news/heckler-koch-herausfallende-magazine-pistole-faellt-durch-qualitaetstest-bei-berliner-polizei_id_9223872.html (https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/heckler-koch-herausfallende-magazine-pistole-faellt-durch-qualitaetstest-bei-berliner-polizei_id_9223872.html)

Ausbilder der Berliner Polizei haben beim "Anschießen" der Waffe gravierende Mängel festgestellt. Demnach kritisieren die Beamten die "Treffpunktlage" der Pistole und "herausfallende Magazine", sagte ein hochrangiger Beamter der Zeitung.

morgenpost.de/berlin/article214814445/Trotz-Problemen-Neue-Polizei-Waffe-schon-im-Einsatz.html (https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article214814445/Trotz-Problemen-Neue-Polizei-Waffe-schon-im-Einsatz.html)

Bei einer Pistole war beim Test auch das Magazin herausgefallen. Allerdings sei das entgegen anderslautender Berichte kein flächendeckendes Problem. Und es sei auch nicht klar, ob es sich dabei um einen Bedienfehler handelte . Die Waffen sind mit einem Druckknopf ausgestattet, mit dem sich das Magazin einfacher herausnehmen lässt. Die Polizei selbst hatte sich nach Tests für diese Funktion und gegen eine andere Standard-Variante, in der das Magazin durch eine Art Wippe gesichert ist, entschieden.

Swiss police replied, they like their SFP9 (theirs have paddle mag releases):

bazonline.ch/basel/stadt/Basler-Polizeiwaffe-faellt-durch/story/23175767 (https://bazonline.ch/basel/stadt/Basler-Polizeiwaffe-faellt-durch/story/23175767)

Bei der Basler Polizei sei die in den Augen der Berliner Polizei untaugliche Waffe «sehr beliebt», teilt Sprecher Toprak Yerguz mit. Diese Waffe entspreche dem Stand der Technik und sei in der Anwendung sowie den Manipulationen einfacher als das Vorgängermodell. Dies zeige sich in einem besseren durchschnittlichen Trefferbild im Rahmen der Quartalsübungen. «Aus diesem Grund ist diese Waffe sehr beliebt.» Die Kantonspolizei Basel-Stadt könne die von der Berliner Polizei konkret beschriebenen Probleme «weder bestätigen noch nachvollziehen».

[lwt16]

I have a VP9 LE 9mm ordered (traditional paddle release) and it should be here next week.

Anyone have a clue why the 15 round magazines are so hard to find in stock? I found a place called Toombstone Tactical that had 8 in stock and got three more on the way.

[Hunter Rose]

I just want to see a VP9 with a manual safety for AIWB carry.

[Dcowboyscr]

I’ve never understood how people can shoot AR15’s and use their trigger finger to press the magazine release but somehow on a pistol with a paddle magazine release it’s too much to ask.

[Rc217]

I’ve never understood how people can shoot AR15’s and use their trigger finger to press the magazine release but somehow on a pistol with a paddle magazine release it’s too much to ask.

That is a great point. I feel the same way when I hear people say safeties will get you killed.

[Jeff S.]

I’ve never understood how people can shoot AR15’s and use their trigger finger to press the magazine release but somehow on a pistol with a paddle magazine release it’s too much to ask.



To each their own, but on an AR15 the mag release is where you keep your trigger finger when you want to keep your finger off of the trigger. On a pistol with a paddle magazine release, the release is close to the trigger, and using your finger to press the paddle is similar to pressing the trigger.

[O4L]

To each their own, but on an AR15 the mag release is where you keep your trigger finger when you want to keep your finger off of the trigger. On a pistol with a paddle magazine release, the release is close to the trigger, and using your finger to press the paddle is similar to pressing the trigger.I use my thumb.

[Dcowboyscr]

I use my thumb.

I use my middle finger with the HK magazine paddle release.

[Peally]

To each their own, but on an AR15 the mag release is where you keep your trigger finger when you want to keep your finger off of the trigger. On a pistol with a paddle magazine release, the release is close to the trigger, and using your finger to press the paddle is similar to pressing the trigger.

Just like a BAD lever... it's not an issue.

[Jeff S.]

Just like a BAD lever... it's not an issue.



Regardless of whether it’s an issue, I do not think it’s objective to compare using one’s trigger finger to activate the magazine release on an AR15 to a paddle release on a pistol. My (limited) understanding of the BAD lever is that it’s still actuated in front of the trigger with a straight finger, so I wouldn’t compare its activation to a paddle mag release either (actuated behind the trigger with a hooked finger).

[Wondering Beard]

I’ve never understood how people can shoot AR15’s and use their trigger finger to press the magazine release but somehow on a pistol with a paddle magazine release it’s too much to ask.

Because the mag release on the AR is ahead of the trigger guard and trigger. So the trigger finger is moving forward and thus in the opposite direction of the movement required to press the trigger.

On the HK, the trigger finger is moving backward, in the direction of the trigger and in the direction required to make the trigger work. The NDs that have happened while using the trigger finger to release the mag have been due, to the best of my understanding, with the trigger finger coming across and touching the trigger. A lot of people manage to do just fine with that movement, but personally I don't like moving my trigger finger that close to the trigger in an often tense situation (competition or fight). For me, the thumb works well or the middle finger.

[YVK]

Because the mag release on the AR is ahead of the trigger guard and trigger. So the trigger finger is moving forward and thus in the opposite direction of the movement required to press the trigger.



That, in addition to safety that we're taught to engage before manipulating anything other than trigger on a loaded AR.

[Greg]

Buttons are what God and John Moses Browning intended for us to use.

Anything else came from the fevered brows of savages, socialists and scumbags. :cool:

[CanineCombatives]

Amen!

[raks]

Buttons are what God and John Moses Browning intended for us to use.

Anything else came from the fevered brows of savages, socialists and scumbags. :cool:

Yeah, I love the safety button on my 1911's. :cool:

[GJM]

Handled a button VP 9 this afternoon, loved the button mag release!

[Duke]

Handled a button VP 9 this afternoon, loved the button mag release!

Anyone spend any amount of time with these since this thread was last updated?

[GJM]

Anyone spend any amount of time with these since this thread was last updated?

The VP9-B is all I have shot for the last six weeks.

[Gater]

Anyone spend any amount of time with these since this thread was last updated?

Very timely...just had a relative ask about these. Other than larger size than comparable G19 and a bit higher initial cost and cost/availability of mags and parts, any reason to wave off the VP9 (B or otherwise)? He doesn't have any other handguns.

[GJM]

You really don’t need extra parts for a VP9. I have taken them out of the box, added a red dot or different sights, and just shot them. Yet to experience a malfunction over the six weeks or so I have been shooting them, in daily practice and weekend matches. My match performance is my best ever. Triggers improve with rounds fired. A VP9 and VP9SK make an awesome combo, with the ability to use 10, 13 and 15 round SK specific mags. Both work in the same JM George. Hoping HK has optics ready and long slide versions at SHOT.

[Gater]

You really don’t need extra parts for a VP9. I have taken them out of the box, added a red dot or different sights, and just shot them. Yet to experience a malfunction over the six weeks or so I have been shooting them, in daily practice and weekend matches. My match performance is my best ever. Triggers improve with rounds fired. A VP9 and VP9SK make an awesome combo, with the ability to use 10, 13 and 15 round SK specific mags. Both work in the same JM George. Hoping HK has optics ready and long slide versions at SHOT.

Thank you! Suspect I will be shooting his on next trip down that way.

[littlejerry]

Are there any acceptable magazine options in the 20 round range for games?

[GJM]

Are there any acceptable magazine options in the 20 round range for games?

Yes. HK sells OEM 20 round mags, although I haven’t put them on a 140mm gauge. Taylor Freelance makes 140 extensions that hold 20. Springer makes 140 extensions that with a Grams follower hold 21.

[LOKNLOD]

... that with a Grams follower hold 21.

What is this follower? Would it work in a standard mag to up the round count?

[GJM]

What is this follower? Would it work in a standard mag to up the round count?

https://shop.springerprecision.com/Springer-Precision-HK-VP9-P30-9-40-EZ-140mm-base-pads-SP0851.htm

[JodyH]

You really don’t need extra parts for a VP9. I have taken them out of the box, added a red dot or different sights, and just shot them. Yet to experience a malfunction over the six weeks or so I have been shooting them, in daily practice and weekend matches. My match performance is my best ever.

A VP9 and VP9SK make an awesome combo, with the ability to use 10, 13 and 15 round SK specific mags.
There must be something in the air because just last night I put all the Glocks up in the storage safe and pulled all the VP9's out and put them in the primary safe.
Then I read this thread and saw that you're currently on a VP9 kick.

I'm headed to the range when the sun comes up with 500 rounds of S&B 9mm, a sack full of loaded mags and my favorite VP9/VP9SK duo to see if they are as great as I remember.
:cool:

[GJM]

I love the way the Glock draws and transitions, but I have never split as well on harder targets with a Glock as with a CZ. The VP9 is very Glock like in draws and transitions, but splits more like a CZ for me. It is also very Glock like in weight and feel for EDC. Our household has been very Glock and HK oriented for decades, with my wife carrying and competing with a Glock, and carrying an HK around bears. I bounce back and forth.

Here is a video from my match Saturday, shooting a VP9-B with a DP Pro:


https://youtu.be/f6WkIocxgk8

[JodyH]

I love the way the VP9 performs on individual targets (like steel). On paper my Glock splits are faster for the same accuracy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9q-9K0kNRI&t=2s

[GJM]

I love the way the VP9 performs on individual targets (like steel). On paper my Glock splits are faster for the same accuracy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9q-9K0kNRI&t=2s

That is so interesting, as I would say the opposite, that the VP9 shines on splits.

If you don’t already, you should consider shooting a few official Steel Challenge matches, where you can compare your performance against the national peak stage times for benchmarking data.

[JHC]

That is so interesting, as I would say the opposite, that the VP9 shines on splits.

If you don’t already, you should consider shooting a few official Steel Challenge matches, where you can compare your performance against the national peak stage times for benchmarking data.

A few years back, after shooting Glocks for an extended period of several tens of thousands of rounds, you reported picking up an M&P and immediately out splitting your Glock shooting. It was all counter-intuitive if based on familiarity and recency.


I recall you got some grief for hair "splitting" and I don't think the topic got it's full due at that time. I started wondering if it was not about "mechanical" differences in the guns' actions but in a bio-mechanical combination of dimensions and angles etc on how the gun "works" for a specific shooter.


Now personally, splits are way down the list of things I focus on but I thought it very interesting nevertheless.

[JodyH]

That is so interesting, as I would say the opposite, that the VP9 shines on splits.

If you don’t already, you should consider shooting a few official Steel Challenge matches, where you can compare your performance against the national peak stage times for benchmarking data.

Might be due to you being a trigger slapper and i'm more of a reset rider.

[GJM]

A few years back, after shooting Glocks for an extended period of several tens of thousands of rounds, you reported picking up an M&P and immediately out splitting your Glock shooting. It was all counter-intuitive if based on familiarity and recency.


I recall you got some grief for hair "splitting" and I don't think the topic got it's full due at that time. I started wondering if it was not about "mechanical" differences in the guns' actions but in a bio-mechanical combination of dimensions and angles etc on how the gun "works" for a specific shooter.


Now personally, splits are way down the list of things I focus on but I thought it very interesting nevertheless.

In terms of core USPSA technical shooting skills, we have the draw, splits, transitions and reloads. I have made good progress with draws, transitions and reloads, but faster splits to 10-25 yard targets has been my next low hanging fruit. Not talking about the often flogged “outshooting your headlights” with Bill drill quantity .15 splits, but rather single A zone splits in the .22-.30 range that are the “money shots” of USPSA. For whatever reason, the VP9 agrees with me on those splits, very CZ like, with all the other benefits of a Glock weight pistol.

[JHC]

In terms of core USPSA technical shooting skills, we have the draw, splits, transitions and reloads. I have made good progress with draws, transitions and reloads, but faster splits to 10-25 yard targets has been my next low hanging fruit. Not talking about the often flogged “outshooting your headlights” with Bill drill quantity .15 splits, but rather single A zone splits in the .22-.30 range that are the “money shots” of USPSA. For whatever reason, the VP9 agrees with me on those splits, very CZ like, with all the other benefits of a Glock weight pistol.


Roger that. Yes the old splits issue I dug from my archives was in the context of raw speed like the .15 thing. I see what you mean about those .22-.30 splits on those sorts of shots. I think I recall various shooter reviews of the VP9 and the 320 for that matter describing very good recoil behavior in that regard, regardless of bore axis or muzzle rise.

[David S.]

Apparently the VP9LB is a thing.

And you can get a long slide conversion kit for your existing VP9 frame.

Saw it on one of the Active Self Protection media feeds.

ETA. On H&K’s IG feed

[ssb]

Looks like no optics ready guns... again.

[GJM]

No optics ready VP9 at SHOT which is profoundly disappointing. There is this:

34484

[Bigghoss]

I'm kinda hoping for a P30b.

[MGW]

What’s the deal with long slide kits? I wonder why they’re not selling complete pistols?

[David S.]

According to the Active Self Protection video on Facebook, both the conversion kit and full gun options will be available next month.

[Balisong]

That long slide is pretty damn sexy. Eventually I'll get a VP9 for S&Gs

[Bucky]

I'm kinda hoping for a P30b.

P30B Compact would be intriguing. (Not SK, P2000 size).

[Jason M]

I'm kinda hoping for a P30b.

I was kinda hoping for the "S" version of the VP9 FOW to be made available to the US market.

[RJ]

If they made a VP9c I would probably still be shooting HKs. :(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[psalms144.1]

If they made a VP9c I would probably still be shooting HKs. :(Agreed. However, just like "it's a Glock world," it seems like "it's a Commander world" - the trend towards full size frames and compact slides is a tidal wave right now...

[GJM]

If they made a VP9c I would probably still be shooting HKs. :(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, I will bite — what is a VP9C?

[JodyH]

Ok, I will bite — what is a VP9C?
I'd say a VP9SK with factory 13 round magazines fits that description perfectly.

[Duke]

An ambi manual safety of a thumb-worthy size and location would be my buying point

As long were talking wishes from aiwb guys

[GJM]

An ambi manual safety of a thumb-worthy size and location would be my buying point

As long were talking wishes from aiwb guys

Has any manufacturer made a striker pistol with a thumb safety that works as well as the thumb safety on a 1911?

[RJ]

Ok, I will bite — what is a VP9C?

Basically a Glock 19 sized (5.0” high) VP9 that natively (i.e. flush) accepts USPc 13 round magazines without an X Grip or similar.

[MSparks909]

Has any manufacturer made a striker pistol with a thumb safety that works as well as the thumb safety on a 1911?

M&P 1/2.0s with the thumb safety come to mind. They’re not perfect but they’re the best thumb safeties I’ve seen on a striker gun. If they were a touch higher I’d like them more. They’re a little low if you ride the thumb safety with an aggressive thumbs forward grip.

The safety on the M17 isn’t too bad either. I like the M&P safety better but I had no issues running my thumb on top of the safety 1911-style in the 60ish rounds I put through my friend’s M17 this weekend.

[Navin Johnson]

Has any manufacturer made a striker pistol with a thumb safety that works as well as the thumb safety on a 1911?

Has any manufacturer made a striker pistol with a trigger that works as well as a 1911?

[BigT]

Played with these again at SHOT. I still think they got the button just right and I still prefer it to the paddles.

[GJM]

Shot the VP9B with the Night Fission sights. They were regulated like factory sights, meaning drive the dot, which is not surprising since they appear to be factory dimensions. I like them as much as any tritium sights, which is another way of saying I really like red dots these days.

[GJM]

Quick update. I had Primary Machine direct mill a VP9L for a DeltaPoint Pro, and mill a VP9B for an RMS Shield. Both came out great.

36807

Here is some slo-mo video, comparing the VP9L to the VP9B, followed by shooting a few Garcia dots with the VP9L so you can see it at regular speed.


https://youtu.be/ekJQHPxnFx8

[Poconnor]

Anybody having their VP9 fail to lock the slide to the rear when you fire the last round in the magazine?

[JonInWA]

I haven't had that issue at all with my VP40. I only use factory ammunition, usually 180 gr, but no issues with 165 gr either.

Best, Jon

[Will_H]

Anybody having their VP9 fail to lock the slide to the rear when you fire the last round in the magazine?

Yes, I can attribute that to riding the slide stop, though. It's easy to get a piece of that big b*stard with my dominant thumb.

[Balisong]

It happens to me with the VP40 (and P30), but I know it's due to my thumb hitting the slide release. I don't shoot it much or I would make adjustments to my grip with that gun.

[Poconnor]

Thanks for the feedback; my old department is dumping the VP9s for Glocks because the VP9s are not picking back.

[GJM]

Thanks for the feedback; my old department is dumping the VP9s for Glocks because the VP9s are not picking back.

Can you elaborate on this?

Based on significant experience shooting the VP9 and Glock pistols, they have somewhat different characters, and I think the VP9 is arguably a better LE gun. I find the Glock easier to shoot fast, and the VP9 easier to shoot accurately. That is for all level shooters, but especially with less developed shooters, since the Glock trigger takes a special type of loving. The VP9 seems to require even less PM than a Glock, although the Glock wins out on ease of maintenance.

[Poconnor]

We issued 1911s for my whole career. I retired in 2015 and the majority of the department has less than 5 years on. All the range officers are experienced police officers but have less than 5 years working the range. I don’t know how much coaching is going on vs target scoring now. They will be qualifying very soon and I will stop by and try and get more info.

[Borderland]

deleted....

[Poconnor]

I meant to type “not locking back” as in slide lock. Damn auto correct

[Doc_Glock]

Anybody having their VP9 fail to lock the slide to the rear when you fire the last round in the magazine?

The HK P series and VP9 series pistols have extremely sensitive slide release/lock levers. They will lock back regularly, but the slightest bump by a user will drop them. I have had to learn to keep that strong thumb way away from the lever while shooting them.

May be a design issue, but mostly a user issue.

[GJM]

38204

[KPD]

38204

Can we get some details on the work done and your experience with this setup so far?

Poconnor
I have carried a VP9 on duty since 2015. I was issued a P229 for the 20 something years prior. In my experience both of these guns have very sensitive slide lock levers. I have fixed my issue by tweaking my grip slightly to avoid touching the release at all. As long as I do my part the slide locks back every time regardless of the ammunition I am using. I suspect your Officers are having the same problem and can fix it by modifying their grip slightly.

[GJM]

Primary Machine took this photo, and I should receive it back next week.

[Ed L]

Anybody having their VP9 fail to lock the slide to the rear when you fire the last round in the magazine?

I had that happen with my P30L a few times when I first got it. I switched out the side and backstraps to medium sides and large back and it changed my grip enough to prevent it from happening. This was before the VP-9 was out. When I got the VP-9 I set up the grips similarly and have not had the slide not lock back after the last round. I probably have over 6000 rounds through VP9s, including the compact.