Federal 45 HST 4in barrel velocities?

[Hot Cereal]

Has anyone run the 230gr HST and 230gr HST +P load over a chrono from a 4-4.25in barrel? I'm thinking of ordering some HST and was curious what differences anyone has seen between the two out of a ~4in barrel. In the Lucky Gunner testing the difference from a ~3in barrel was only 20 fps or so. Thanks.

[scjbash]

Federal's numbers from a 5" inch barrel are 890 fps and 950 fps.

[Hot Cereal]

Federal's numbers from a 5" inch barrel are 890 fps and 950 fps.

I know, but those numbers will be less from a 4in barrel. For example my pistol launches Golden Sabers at 800fps which are spec'd at 875 from a 5in. If the HST+P is averaging 890 fps and the standard pressure is averaging 860 fps there isn't much advantage to the +P. If the standard pressure only runs 820 and the +P is over 870, then the +P makes sense. I want to be in the target window of 870-920 fps.

[the Schwartz]

The standard pressure .45ACP 230-grain HST was tested here

http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto2.html

and registered 838 fps from the 4'' barrel and 789 fps from the 3'' barrel.

Unfortunately, the +P version was not tested.

[scjbash]

Doc has tests from both loads on here but I think they're also from 5" barrels. This is a quote from him though.

HST’s tend to work best using heavier bullets (147 gr, 180 gr, 230 gr) at moderate velocities, with standard pressures.

Maybe that could change in a 4" barrel but I imagine it would have to be negligible, and from my experience shooting both I went with the round that's slightly easier to shoot over the one that may have a slight terminal ballistic advantage.

Then I ditched both for 9mm. :)

[Bucky]

I’m pretty sure I chrono’d both these rounds in my G30. I’m away for a few days, but can look it up when I get home.

[Galbraith]

The latest .45 HSTs are hotter than the old ones and use small pistol primers. I chronoed the 230gr load at 885fps from a 4.7" barrel. Not sure on a 4" barrel.

[Hot Cereal]

The latest .45 HSTs are hotter than the old ones and use small pistol primers. I chronoed the 230gr load at 885fps from a 4.7" barrel. Not sure on a 4" barrel.
Did Federal change the spec?

[Hot Cereal]

I’m pretty sure I chrono’d both these rounds in my G30. I’m away for a few days, but can look it up when I get home.

Would be much appreciated.

[Galbraith]

Did Federal change the spec?

The last batch that I bought was in 2015, it had large primers, and had an average velocity of 844fps from a Sig P220 4.4" barrel. The new HST which I think changed in 2016, uses a small primer and runs at 871fps from the same Sig P220 4.4" barrel.

I've noticed that Winchester also increased the velocity of their standard pressure .45acp Ranger Talon and Ranger Bonded loads to get closer to 900fps. Most likely the changes by Federal and Winchester are to improve the barrier penetration ability of their product.

I don't run gel tests, just 1gal water jug tests. The old .45 HST load would penetrate three water jugs, often pierce the 4th jug so that it leaked, and the bullet remain in the 3rd jug. I could do this test over and over again with the same results, and the 9mm 147gr HST and .40S&W 180gr HST penetrated to the same depth. However, this new .45 HST will penetrate 4 jugs and the bullet will remain in the 4th jug. The current 9mm and .40 loads do not penetrate that deeply. Out of a Sig P320 .45, the new .45 HST has rather mild recoil, so it has become my new duty/carry load. Here is a pic of the latest 9mm 147gr and .45acp 230gr HST loads:
http://i.imgur.com/4hwBuM0.jpg?1 (https://imgur.com/4hwBuM0)

[Hot Cereal]

The last batch that I bought was in 2015, it had large primers, and had an average velocity of 844fps from a Sig P220 4.4" barrel. The new HST which I think changed in 2016, uses a small primer and runs at 871fps from the same Sig P220 4.4" barrel.

I've noticed that Winchester also increased the velocity of their standard pressure .45acp Ranger Talon and Ranger Bonded loads to get closer to 900fps. Most likely the changes by Federal and Winchester are to improve the barrier penetration ability of their product.

You're probably right. I've always thought the Winchester .40 165gr Ranger T and .45 230gr SP and +P Ranger T were their best Ranger loads. The +P .45 is pretty hot. Spec'd at 990 fps.

Another possibility is trying to reach the spec velocity from a 4.5in barrel. Increase the load slightly, not enough to change spec, but now you're getting 871-890 depending on the gun (Sigs always seem to have slow barrels, JMO). How many LE agencies or regular folks carry 5 inch .45s? Not many. Most are carrying Glock 21s, Sig 220s, M&P 45s, something with a barrel length between 4 and 4.5 inches. I've noticed through various gel testing the 45 HST seems to be the most velocity dependent of the HST line. I've seen several short barrel tests of the 45 HST that have shown failures to expand through clothing/denim. Perhaps Federal is trying to address that because they know end users will use it in pistols with barrels as short as 3 inches. If that is the case, kudos to Federal.

[Galbraith]

I've seen several short barrel tests of the 45 HST that have shown failures to expand through clothing/denim. Perhaps Federal is trying to address that because they know end users will use it in pistols with barrels as short as 3 inches. If that is the case, kudos to Federal.

It's really all about powder burn rate, and the powder volume of the cartridge. Generally, smaller calibers handle shorter barrels better than larger calibers with larger charges. The blast and muzzle flash between a .45acp in a 4" barrel and a 5" barrel is considerable, because more of the charge is burned off inside the barrel on the 5" gun. A .45acp JHP load can be setup with the right powder for a 3" barrel no problem and do fine in the FBI protocols, but that custom load may not be ideal in a 5" barrel.

Personally, I wouldn't go any shorter than a 4" barrel in .45acp. Most ammo manufacturers keep their top JHP loads in .45acp designed for barrels between 4"-5"(+or-), so I would stay within that window. Besides, the primary part of the gun that makes it conceal better is the size of the grip, not as much the slide length.

[Hot Cereal]

Personally, I wouldn't go any shorter than a 4" barrel in .45acp. Most ammo manufacturers keep their top JHP loads in .45acp designed for barrels between 4"-5"(+or-), so I would stay within that window. Besides, the primary part of the gun that makes it conceal better is the size of the grip, not as much the slide length.

I tend to agree. However, I think manufacturers should start engineering .45 loads with 4in barrels in mind. Most agencies that carry .45 are carrying 4.5 in guns and most concealed carry .45s fall somewhere between 3.3-4 in. Developing with 4 inches in mind instead of 5 makes sense to me.

[Hot Cereal]

Will the HST provide substantially better performance than a 230gr Golden Saber?

[Robinson]

Will the HST provide substantially better performance than a 230gr Golden Saber?

Golden Saber was a pretty good choice back when it became popular. Today I think there are better options, including HST and Gold Dot.

[DocGKR]

Terminal performance of these loads from 4-5" barrels are essentially the same. Typically when you get the .45 Auto Ranger-T or HST above 925-950 fps, bad things happen. We do most of our .45 Auto testing from a 4.5" barrel.

[Hot Cereal]

Is the performance of the HST substantially better than Golden Saber? In other words, is it worth spending the cash to swap things out? When I picked up the GS I couldn’t find HST in stock. Now the price of HST seems to have gone up a bit as well. I was also looking at the Golden Saber Black Belt, which seems to have good performance, though everything I’ve seen tested has been 9mm. Any testing of the GSBB in 45?

[Sensei]

Is the performance of the HST substantially better than Golden Saber? In other words, is it worth spending the cash to swap things out? When I picked up the GS I couldn’t find HST in stock. Now the price of HST seems to have gone up a bit as well. I was also looking at the Golden Saber Black Belt, which seems to have good performance, though everything I’ve seen tested has been 9mm. Any testing of the GSBB in 45?

LMGTFY ;)

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/6/8/testing-remingtons-golden-saber-black-belt-pistol-ammo/