400 Guns Stolent from UPS Distribution Center in Memphis

[RevolverRob]

https://www.localmemphis.com/news/local-news/atf-mpd-offer-reward-up-to-5-000-after-400-guns-stolen-from-ups-facility/1489780065

Stolen on Sunday, they drove right in and loaded them into a van and drove off.

A bunch of them have turned up in Chicago (shocking...guess that gun control is working well...:rolleyes:) - https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/02/us/guns-stolen-from-ups-trnd/index.html

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I suppose the question is - why were 400 guns sitting in a UPS Depot - together? And how did the thieves know to steal those packages (hint: because it's an inside job). This really should push UPS to change its policy regarding informing UPS about firearms in packages. They mark them in their system...and I suspect this resulted in the individuals being able to figure out who to target. If not, they targeted addresses or addressees.

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Ship via Fed-Ex.

[OlongJohnson]

Fed Ex also requires notification if a package contains a firearm. Or at least Ruger has told me that's the rule both times I've shipped one back to them via FedEx.

[ragnar_d]

I suppose the question is - why were 400 guns sitting in a UPS Depot - together?
The one thing I was thinking about this was that Remington's "world distribution" center is in the Memphis area (right across the border in Southaven, MS). Pure speculation on my part, but (if it were a shipment from Big Green that got "intercepted" by ne'er-do-wells) maybe guns moving from the DC out to other distributors or dealers that went out on Friday and weren't on their way for a couple days?



Sent from my fruit based pocket computer using Tapatalk

Disclaimer: I work in the firearms industry as a designer and engineer. My posts do not represent the opinions or positions of my employers, past or present.

[41magfan]

650 stolen back in 2017

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/missouri/articles/2018-01-26/texas-men-charged-with-stealing-650-guns-in-springfield

[Casual Friday]

Definitely an inside job. This may explain why UPS was so uptight yesterday when I tried to ship a handgun that I sold to 1slow. The hub that I've shipped out of many times wouldn't take it because the right manager wasn't there, never been a problem before, and they told me the brand new cardboard box I was using might not be up to their shipping standards, never been a problem before either. I asked what kind of box would conform to their standards and I got the blank stare and no response.

[theJanitor]

Fed Ex also requires notification if a package contains a firearm. Or at least Ruger has told me that's the rule both times I've shipped one back to them via FedEx.

I ship everything through fedex, and they never ask. My gunsmith advised me against UPS many years ago, and I've never had a problem.

Set up a FEDEX account, and link it to a CC. Make the shipping arrangement online, and use a FEDEX box, as much as possible. There's no requirement on the online reservation system to declare the contents, unless it's hazmat.
When you drop off the package to the Fedex location, they just scan it and accept it.

[ssb]

That UPS hub, much like the FedEx hub right up the road, has a serious and ongoing problem with employee-assisted and/or -committed package theft. The hiring pool is what it is, for better or worse.

[Stephanie B]

A year or two back, when Precision Delta had a great deal on .38 target ammo (25% off and free shipping for case lots), a number of P-F regulars placed orders. At least one of the orders grew legs and walked out the door of the UPS hub in Memphis.

Somebody mentioned that UPS did not have cameras on employee entrances.

Anyhoo, if this wasn't an inside job (shipper or UPS), I'd be floored.

[theJanitor]

And it's not only UPS/FEDEX. My MIL had a Cartier bracelet stolen from USPS. She declared the contents in order to buy insurance, so the workers knew what was in it. Tracking says it never left the state, and the box, with a hole cut in the side, and the contents gone was "returned to shipper". When we raised hell about it, an "investigation" was held and the goods were returned. Only problem was that the bracelet they "found" was counterfeit. She didn't ship it in it's original retail packaging, but the fake even had a fake Cartier box. If that's not an inside job, I don't know what is.

[HCM]

UPS has had issues with firearms thefts for decades. This is nothing new.

At work we’ve had very good results shipping guns via FedEx.

About 15 years back my agency switched from Fedex to DHL for all overnight shipping - after several lost/stolen firearms Fedex was re-authorized for firearms shipments. Use of FedEx for firearms shipments has continued even after the general contract switched to UPS.

[trailrunner]

FedEx gave me a hard time when I shipped a gun to S&W for warranty work a couple of years ago. I think (?) I had used a shoe box, which would have been in good condition, but he said that their policy was that guns can't be shipped in shoe boxes, and he knew that I was shipping a gun because he recognized the address. I'm not positive it was a shoe box, but he didn't like whatever cardboard box I had used and made me buy another cardboard box from them, go home, re-wrap it, and bring it back.

[OlongJohnson]

There are two issues with that:

Integrity of the shipping container. They want to be sure it's durable, in good condition, and not going to lose contents. Not saying yours was, but shoe boxes may be thin, overly dependent on the strength of the tape to remain closed, etc.

Indication of contents. This applies a little more to ammo, for example. They don't want a box to be labeled as full of chocolate chip cookies or blueberry muffins when it's really full of hazardous materials. Best to have no exterior labeling of any kind other than that required by law (i.e., the hazardous material indication) when shipping "low profile" items.

Typical procedure would have been to supply you with one of their branded, standard-size shipping boxes for free.

[RevolverRob]

Fed Ex also requires notification if a package contains a firearm. Or at least Ruger has told me that's the rule both times I've shipped one back to them via FedEx.

Technically, FedEx requires that. But I’ve never been asked what the contents were, except to confirm they were not hazardous. And when the driver picks up - they never ask. I tried to mention it to a driver picking up once and his response was, “Ignorance is best for everyone. Just insure the package.”

[1slow]

Definitely an inside job. This may explain why UPS was so uptight yesterday when I tried to ship a handgun that I sold to 1slow. The hub that I've shipped out of many times wouldn't take it because the right manager wasn't there, never been a problem before, and they told me the brand new cardboard box I was using might not be up to their shipping standards, never been a problem before either. I asked what kind of box would conform to their standards and I got the blank stare and no response.

UPS started requiring faster more expensive shipping because they were not willing to crush employees stealing from them.

Let me get this straight " you want me to pay more for expedited shipping because you will not keep your employees from stealing pistols."

[SeriousStudent]

A year or two back, when Precision Delta had a great deal on .38 target ammo (25% off and free shipping for case lots), a number of P-F regulars placed orders. At least one of the orders grew legs and walked out the door of the UPS hub in Memphis.

Somebody mentioned that UPS did not have cameras on employee entrances.

Anyhoo, if this wasn't an inside job (shipper or UPS), I'd be floored.

I don't know if anybody else had that problem, but I sure did.

And the Precision Delta folks went above and beyond to resolve it. They were watching the tracking info and dispatched a replacement case of ammo, before I even called to ask. They have received much more of my business as a result.

The replacement case arrived via Fedex, by the way. ;)

[willie]

My first UPS theft was a Colt Detective Special. I have heard that inside theft can involve placing the intended item to be stolen on the wrong truck and doing so without anyone else's knowledge except the driver and the other guy.

[StraitR]

We use FedEx to ship 20-30 firearms a day, and aside from some random delays and other headaches that come along with shipping in general, we don't have any issues with theft or loss.

They would like you to let them know it's a sensitive item, but we find it safer to just ship it 2nd day with proper insurance. Maybe the fact that we don't declare it a firearm has kept us from having a theft issue.

[theJanitor]

we find it safer to just ship it 2nd day with proper insurance. Maybe the fact that we don't declare it a firearm has kept us from having a theft issue.

This is key, IMO

[Cypher]

The shipping hub I work at receives shipments everyday that fill an entire truck. For instance a shipment of laundry detergent and baby food for Target. A contract driver delivers an entire trailer full to the shipping hub sealed and ready for delivery to Target. The shipper simply puts the trailer on one of their trucks and drives it to target's warehouse, where Target splits the shipment and sends it to the individual stores in town. This could have been a shipment from Ruger to Walmart.

The bill of lading presented by the driver says right on it what's in the truck and the operations manager gets an email telling him roughly when to expect the truck. The last time this happened (in Missouri earlier this year) the trailers were parked inside the fence, end to end with other trailers around them. The thieves came all the way from Dallas to hit THAT shipment.


https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/crime/2018/03/21/654-guns-bound-bass-pro-vanished-heres-how-atf-says-they-found-thieves-and-1-gun/445208002/

Long story short someone from UPS told the thieves the guns were there.

FWIW there's a gun store called "Specialty Sports and Supply" in Colorado Springs that recieves shipments that take up the entire trailer of an 18 wheeler from UPS frequently.

[SecondsCount]

A year or two back, when Precision Delta had a great deal on .38 target ammo (25% off and free shipping for case lots), a number of P-F regulars placed orders. At least one of the orders grew legs and walked out the door of the UPS hub in Memphis.

Somebody mentioned that UPS did not have cameras on employee entrances.

Anyhoo, if this wasn't an inside job (shipper or UPS), I'd be floored.
I have several friends that work for UPS. They said that one method to steal is that when the package handler sees a box they want to steal, they put another label on the box, rerouting it to another address. No need to carry out of the facility when it will be delivered by UPS!

RFID tags could solve some of this.

[Cypher]

My first UPS theft was a Colt Detective Special. I have heard that inside theft can involve placing the intended item to be stolen on the wrong truck and doing so without anyone else's knowledge except the driver and the other guy.


I never ask questions because it's completely outside my scope of duties but I see packages that are being shipped sitting in the break room at work all the time.

[CleverNickname]

I don't ship firearms all that often, but when I do, I never declare that the package has a firearm in it, because I've never shipped to a non-FFL. It may be against Fedex/UPS's rules, but there's no legal requirement to do so. Just print out the label on their website and drop it off.



(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped;

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Guns found in Chicago. What a surprise?

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/guns-stolen-in-memphis-found-in-chicago-494940421.html

Why do people buy those guns when it is against the law? :confused: