Federal FC #1 Available?

[Norville]

I’ve come to find that the OO reduced recoil loads are only about 95% reliable in my Benelli M2, but the #1 with it’s heavier payload is 100%. Unfortunately my stock is getting low and I don’t see any in stock anywhere.

Anyone have an idea if more will be produced, or has it become a contract order only item?

Thanks!

[jellydonut]

If this is the case, then this is something worthy of a group buy, considering it is the most viable 12 gauge load out there with no close competitors.

[JHC]

I’ve come to find that the OO reduced recoil loads are only about 95% reliable in my Benelli M2, but the #1 with it’s heavier payload is 100%. Unfortunately my stock is getting low and I don’t see any in stock anywhere.

Anyone have an idea if more will be produced, or has it become a contract order only item?

Thanks!


Not currently in stock but I've had good luck with "notify when back in stock" emails with this outfit.

https://www.sgammo.com/product/12-gauge-ammo/250-round-case-12-gauge-federal-number-1-buckshot-flite-control-wad-le132-1b

[ASH556]

Another source from where I got mine last:

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-law-enforcement-tactical-ammo-12-gauge-2-34-buckshot-15-pellets-le1321b-p-58630.aspx

[Norville]

Thanks, I am on both of those notification lists. I think I’ve been on SG’s for months.


Using Ammoseek.com shows no #1 anywhere right now.

[Drang]

Check ammoseek weekly, if not every two or three days. Buy it when it's in stock, it goes fast.

[ccmdfd]

Thanks, I am on both of those notification lists. I think I’ve been on SG’s for months.


Using Ammoseek.com shows no #1 anywhere right now.

I've been on both of those waiting lists for many months myself, without ever getting an in stock notification.

[Drang]

If this is the case, then this is something worthy of a group buy, considering it is the most viable 12 gauge load out there with no close competitors.

If someone can set up a group buy of FC#1, I'm in for at least 100 shells...

[WobblyPossum]

If someone can set up a group buy of FC#1, I'm in for at least 100 shells...
Same.

[03RN]

If this is the case, then this is something worthy of a group buy, considering it is the most viable 12 gauge load out there with no close competitors.

Fwiw, 00 is a pretty close competitor. I have no hesitation to use 00.

[GyroF-16]

If someone can set up a group buy of FC#1, I'm in for at least 100 shells...

I’d be in, too!

I’ve also been waiting for “notification when back in stock” for over a year.

[Norville]

Fwiw, 00 is a pretty close competitor. I have no hesitation to use 00.

I could be happy with 00, but my M2 isn’t reliable w the reduced recoil version. I could go with the full power LE127, but that’s just another type of ammo to stock!

[Unobtanium]

Federal does it in runs. Word is, it may be out the door, but im not sure. It just didnt sell.

[03RN]

I could be happy with 00, but my M2 isn’t reliable w the reduced recoil version. I could go with the full power LE127, but that’s just another type of ammo to stock!

Isnt the #1 buck another type of ammo to stock? That is less available?

[Norville]

Isnt the #1 buck another type of ammo to stock? That is less available?

I’d run it exclusively if readily available, branched out to the 00 when I couldn’t get any more.

[DocGKR]

#1 FC is by far the best shot load available for LE and self-defense.

[ldunnmobile]

I just wish we could find the stuff. I’ve been looking too.

[DocGKR]

Keep calling and emailing Federal...

[Unobtanium]

Keep calling and emailing Federal...

Serious question: Does this forum have enough traffic to get them to not axe the product? I was under the impression that it simply wasn't generating enough agency sales to keep on the line. Dollars and "sense".

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Serious question: Does this forum have enough traffic to get them to not axe the product? I was under the impression that it simply wasn't generating enough agency sales to keep on the line. Dollars and "sense".

If we could formalize a letter/email to send to Federal, between here, and a number of us who have blogs with substantial readerships, we could get the word out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Unobtanium]

If we could formalize a letter/email to send to Federal, between here, and a number of us who have blogs with substantial readerships, we could get the word out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I hope so, but #1 FC was made by request from some people here, and others. Sales sucked. Im afraid they will say "hey, we built it, no one came, we have a more profitable use for that machinery." I hate to be a naysayer, but if i were LeVista, thats what id tell you based on the last few years.

I hipe that im wrong. I loved that loading. Ill poke around a bit, but my sources tell me the ship may have sailed. Maybe.

[ccmdfd]

I hope so, but #1 FC was made by request from some people here, and others. Sales sucked. Im afraid they will say "hey, we built it, no one came, we have a more profitable use for that machinery." I hate to be a naysayer, but if i were LeVista, thats what id tell you based on the last few years.

I hipe that im wrong. I loved that loading. Ill poke around a bit, but my sources tell me the ship may have sailed. Maybe.

So did they just overestimate what the demand would be; or, did the people who requested it not follow through and purchase?

Curious as I've never heard the story behind this round

thanks

[Unobtanium]

So did they just overestimate what the demand would be; or, did the people who requested it not follow through and purchase?

Curious as I've never heard the story behind this round

thanks

From what I gather, several people asked for it, Federal did it, noone ordered it. The details are much more nuanced, but I think that's the gist, as I understand it.

[WobblyPossum]

This indeed is disappointing if true. I would be in for a group buy if we could pull one off. Otherwise, I guess I'll settle on one of the two low recoil OO loads. I have a few boxes of the 8 pellet and I'll pick up a couple of the 9 pellet. I'll stick with whichever one patterns better out of my 1301.

[Drang]

Everybody's heard of "double-ought buck." It's practically the national standard self-defense load. It's going to take a heckuva campaign to convince everyone that #1 Buck is better...
I'm thinking that if the results of scientific testing were to make the pages of American Rifleman/Shooting Illustrated, and Lucky Gunner's video series, maybe demand would pick up to the point where it would be more readily available.
In a year or three.

I suspect that part of the problem may be that it is marketed as a Law Enforcement load -- some dealers require LEO certification -- but LE agencies are no more immune from "everybody knows double-ought buck" than Joe Sixpack.

[Norville]

Bummer. I'm down to a little over 2.5 cases. I guess it's time to start rationing. :(

I’m down to a half, hence my concern!

Email to Federal was responded to in less than 15 minutes. Unfortunately it said we’re Technical, will forward to Sales.

[43Under]

I came to the shotgun late and didn't know much about different buckshot loads. I'd be in for a group buy now.

[pangloss]

I'm just thinking out loud, but I think Chris Baker of LuckyGunner (@LGChris) is a member here. If we're really serious about a group buy, perhaps we could persuade him to try and place an order from Federal. I'd very much like to try some of the No. 1 buck.

[FNFAN]

In for a case!

[ragnar_d]

I’m down to a half, hence my concern!

Email to Federal was responded to in less than 15 minutes. Unfortunately it said we’re Technical, will forward to Sales.
I fired off an email asking as well, I'm not expecting a response until Monday though since it went out late on a Friday afternoon. They've been really good at getting back to me in the past though. We'll see and fingers crossed.

[Spartan1980]

Hornady makes a #4 buck load using the VersaTite wad which is essentially identical to Federal's FC wad. However I've not been able to get near as good of a pattern with them. They are 1350 velocity and they don't use a buffer in their shot column and it shows on the patterning board. I was hoping to get a solid 50 yard coyote load out of them. Nope. 30 yards at best.

I also don't get as good a group with the full power Fed FC but it's buffered so it's better than the Hornady. The low recoil has about the perfect storm going on for tight patterning as long as you run it out of a true cylinder barrel. Lower velocity doesn't strip the wad away from the shot as fast.

[Jay Cunningham]

Group buy? Oh hell, I'd be in on that.

[ldunnmobile]

That's magnificent.

Oh I definitely don't expect cheap. Was already expecting to pay top dollar anyway since its so rare.

[SeriousStudent]

In for four.

[ssb]

I'm interested. Assume we'd be talking about 250-round cases?

[Clusterfrack]

Interested as well.

[Yung]

I will commit to buying a case of 250. I have some extra Flite 00 left over from my first and only shotgun class a couple months ago and I'd be happy to post some comparison pictures if this goes through.

[RoyGBiv]

I'm in for at least a case/250, assuming pricing similar to retail.

[Spartan1980]

I'm in for 250 also.

[GyroF-16]

I’m in for a case.

[NoLock]

I would definitely buy a case.

[23JAZ]

I’m in for a case.

[XXXsilverXXX]

Also in for a case

[SiriusBlunder]

I'm in for a case. Thanks for volunteering to co-ordinate, Tom.

[pangloss]

I'll take a case as well.

EDIT: Assuming a case is 250 rounds. Thanks, Tom, for trying to make this happen.

[ragnar_d]

FWIW, I heard back from my POC at Federal/Vista. The word was, "No ETA on any new production runs" for LE132-1B, but I didn't ask about any minimum orders for a production lot.

[Norville]

FWIW, I heard back from my POC at Federal/Vista. The word was, "No ETA on any new production runs" for LE132-1B, but I didn't ask about any minimum orders for a production lot.

Well, that’s better than “We’ll never run it again “

[Paul D]

Isn't there an equivalent load made by another manufacturer. With DocGKR's ammo recommendation list, there are more than one recommendation for each caliber. Or is Federal's FC#1 the chosen one?

[Nocturnalis Discipulo]

Hornady is the only other option in a flight control type wad, and I don't believe that they offer a #1 buck option. When I couldn't find any #1 buck I went with FFC low recoil 00 8 pellet. It patterns very well out of my gun. I would advise people to be wary of 9 pellet the likelihood of fliers seems to go up substantially with the extra pellet.

I have heard enough good things that I would buy a case #1 to try out.

[willie]

Whether birdshot or buck shot pellet deformation causes fliers. I've observed these methods used to reduce deformation: reducing pellet number; placing granular buffering material among pellets; using a plastic wad to protect pellets from bore; and using harder shot, especially plated shot. Sometimes more than one of these strategies will be used at the same time. Going the other direction, some buckshot shells have no plastic wad and no buffering. These examples are most likely to produce fliers because no steps have been taken to reduce pellet deformation. S&B buck shot is the biggest offender that I have seen in this regard. I would hesitate to say that all 9 pellet buckshot shells will produce fliers because there are premium offerings designed to pattern well. There are also 23/4 inch shells containing 12 pellets. These have magnum in their designation. They have terrible recoil. Although I never tested these, logic says that this version would have more deformation along with more fliers. I have a 24 inch 835 Mossberg barrel that fits my 590a1. From the factory it's over bored in order to give better patterns. This barrel with a Trulock improved cylinder choke tube gives excellent patterns with regular buckshot. Because the bore is slightly larger in diameter, less deformation occurs. Oddly this combination does not exceed performance seen using the cylinder bore 18 inch barrel and Fed Flight Control buckshot. I think that if I put a cyl choke tube in the overbored barrel, then it might exceed the 590a1's original barrel when using the Flite Control ammo.

[Unobtanium]

Hornady is the only other option in a flight control type wad, and I don't believe that they offer a #1 buck option. When I couldn't find any #1 buck I went with FFC low recoil 00 8 pellet. It patterns very well out of my gun. I would advise people to be wary of 9 pellet the likelihood of fliers seems to go up substantially with the extra pellet.

I have heard enough good things that I would buy a case #1 to try out.

8 Pellet has as many/more fliers in my experience. It's buckshot. DO NOT TRUST IT if you need precision. Its performance is very variable. I've had #1 buck from the same gun, 2 shots in a row, 1 looked like a slug at 25 yards, and 1 had pellets outside of the 8" circle. You just cannot trust it. It's for targets where there is no serious consequence of a pellet coming off, or for when you literally do NOT have another option (not issued slugs, do what you gotta do, etc.)

Just my .02

[WobblyPossum]

I'm in for one case of 250 assuming the end price will be similar to the retail prices I've seen of 70-75 cents/round. Thanks for trying to get this off the ground Tom!

[Guerrero]

Interested

[jd950]

Somehow I doubt we can generate enough sales to motivate federal, but I wold take a case if this works.

[Unobtanium]

Somehow I doubt we can generate enough sales to motivate federal, but I wold take a case if this works.

I think federal will take notice when we reach the 250K round mark or so on our order.

[WobblyPossum]

I think federal will take notice when we reach the 250K round mark or so on our order.

I hope that's not the magic number we need to reach. I don't see us getting more than 20K in purchases.

[Cookie Monster]

I hope that's not the magic number we need to reach. I don't see us getting more than 20K in purchases.

Tom has his work cut out for him if he needs to re-ship 1000 cases of ammo.

[paulw]

I'll commit to a case.

[RoyGBiv]

Tom has his work cut out for him if he needs to re-ship 1000 cases of ammo.
There are logistics companies that can handle this activity.....

Possibly better.... If Federal shows any interest we could reach out to an ammo retailer like SGAmmo and see if they would be interested in joining. Maybe work a deal with them for distribution.....

[Unobtanium]

I hope that's not the magic number we need to reach. I don't see us getting more than 20K in purchases.

I just know the insane volume that LeVista moves, and for them to change their production line? Brother...I remember a while back on another site, someone tried to put together a group buy of 20,000 rounds of XM193, and ATK at the time didn't even give them the time of day...and that's a round they were actually making...

[Unobtanium]

There are logistics companies that can handle this activity.....

Possibly better.... If Federal shows any interest we could reach out to an ammo retailer like SGAmmo and see if they would be interested in joining. Maybe work a deal with them for distribution.....

SGA boxes up their "LE" ammo and sells to us dirty civilians. I dunno how that would work out...LeVista isn't like Hornady thankfully, but they still don't market their LE stuff direct to civilians.

[Norville]

I really don’t think that’s a problem we need to worry about. The likelihood of this working out is exceedingly low.

I’m starting to investigate the Benelli low power recoil spring, but I’m still in for 2-3 cases as the one who raised the question.

[Unobtanium]

I’m starting to investigate the Benelli low power recoil spring, but I’m still in for 2-3 cases as the one who raised the question.

Why are you looking at that? M1 or m2?

[Unobtanium]

I agree. However, I also:



In any case, I've emailed my contact but I have an old ATK email address for her -- and as of 2015 or so, the ATK ammo/sporting goods business was spun off into Vista Outdoors, so it may not even go through. Or she may still be with ATK, and not Vista. Who knows. In any case, the email didn't immediately bounce but that doesn't really mean anything. I'll give it a couple of days and then given her a call (assuming the number I have is still good).


Are you a company/business owner? If not, you need to contact LEVista via a distributor. They do not sell to individuals, no-matter how much money you want to spend.

[Jay Cunningham]

You forgot to mention that you are an extremely wealthy and powerful business owner.

[CWM11B]

I'll commit right now to two cases. Possibly four, definitely two. Damn, I didn't realize this was now unobtanium.

[GyroF-16]

I'll commit right now to two cases. Possibly four, definitely two. Damn, I didn't realize this was now unobtanium.

No kidding. I still remember getting the “in stock” notification from SG Ammo about 2 years ago, and IMMEDIATELY ordering some. Unfortunately, I just got a brick of 50.
Now I’m willing to get a case or 2, to the tune of several hundred $.

[Unobtanium]

No kidding. I still remember getting the “in stock” notification from SG Ammo about 2 years ago, and IMMEDIATELY ordering some. Unfortunately, I just got a brick of 50.
Now I’m willing to get a case or 2, to the tune of several hundred $.

Shit tons in stock a few months back on ammoman.com, so i got a brick to try, and then it was all gone. I think they pulled it or something because of other ammo types like hornady 81255 also evaporated while no others saw a run. 81255 has never been a hot mover either.

[Drang]

Generally, ammo manufacturers rotate between loads; which loads they spend more time on depends on which loads are more popular. Just because the cognoscenti here want FC#1 doesn't mean everyone is so enlightened, thus, FC00 is in plentiful supply. #1 may get a week on the production line a year. (I'm guessing as to the interval, but how many Law Enforcement agencies actually use this 'Law EWnforcemnt" load?)

[TGS]

Generally, ammo manufacturers rotate between loads; which loads they spend more time on depends on which loads are more popular. Just because the cognoscenti here want FC#1 doesn't mean everyone is so enlightened, thus, FC00 is in plentiful supply. #1 may get a week on the production line a year. (I'm guessing as to the interval, but how many Law Enforcement agencies actually use this 'Law EWnforcemnt" load?)

We still use some shit-quality Winchester Ranger 00 load that can barely keep pellets on a man at 15 yards from our 14" guns....

Getting the FC No1 load at my agency would give me a woody, and also likely alleviate one of our biggest complaints.....

[Hambo]

Generally, ammo manufacturers rotate between loads; which loads they spend more time on depends on which loads are more popular. Just because the cognoscenti here want FC#1 doesn't mean everyone is so enlightened, thus, FC00 is in plentiful supply. #1 may get a week on the production line a year. (I'm guessing as to the interval, but how many Law Enforcement agencies actually use this 'Law EWnforcemnt" load?)

With less popular ammo it can be more than a year between production runs. This is a total guess, but I think it would take a six figure order to get Federal's attention.

[Unobtanium]

With less popular ammo it can be more than a year between production runs. This is a total guess, but I think it would take a six figure order to get Federal's attention.

Its not possible to create an order from this board that LeVista cares about. To get this done is going to take social engineering. Its going to be a sell based on soul, not shekels. Contact the people you know that have actual pull within LeVista. Ive dropped a bug in an ear, and will see where it goes. Im surprised Gary Roberts hasnt done same, or rather, id say id be surprised if he hasn't.

[Guerrero]

We still use some shit-quality Winchester Ranger 00 load that can barely keep pellets on a man at 15 yards from our 14" guns....

Getting the FC No1 load at my agency would give me a woody, and also likely alleviate one of our biggest complaints.....

Maybe you could talk to your agency's buyer...

[TGS]

Maybe you could talk to your agency's buyer...

We buy ammunition in the millions on big contracts. So, it's not like we can just decide on a whim to change ammo.

Plus, the people at those high levels in charge of such things usually don't care and can barely remember which end the bullet comes out. Over the last 5 years we had some good people in critical positions with a clue and some gumption, and their efforts were (rightfully) focused on our primary long gun and pistol, and they fucking nailed it. From talking to them personally, it was pretty draining to make it happen, so I imagine changing shotgun ammo would have been a bridge too far especially considering it's a niche weapon for us. After all, you've got to explain this shit to people who have the mindset of, "well it's worked fine for the last 120 years...".

[Hambo]

We buy ammunition in the millions on big contracts. So, it's not like we can just decide on a whim to change ammo.

Plus, the people at those high levels in charge of such things usually don't care and can barely remember which end the bullet comes out. Over the last 5 years we had some good people in critical positions with a clue and some gumption, and their efforts were (rightfully) focused on our primary long gun and pistol, and they fucking nailed it. From talking to them personally, it was pretty draining to make it happen, so I imagine changing shotgun ammo would have been a bridge too far especially considering it's a niche weapon for us. After all, you've got to explain this shit to people who have the mindset of, "well it's worked fine for the last 120 years...".

Therein lies the problem. Large agencies don't use shotguns as much as they used to, and without large agency orders, FC #1 will be a lower priority for Federal than 3" turkey shells.

[LGChris]

We made a quick visit to the Federal HQ last week and I talked to some of their folks about #1 FC. There will be more soon, hopefully early next year. Not sure if I should say anything more. My impression is it that the scarcity of #1 FC is not due to lack of demand and that load has plenty of fans inside the company.

[RoyGBiv]

We made a quick visit to the Federal HQ last week and I talked to some of their folks about #1 FC. There will be more soon, hopefully early next year. Not sure if I should say anything more. My impression is it that the scarcity of #1 FC is not due to lack of demand and that load has plenty of fans inside the company.

Can you get us in the queue for the first pallet? :o

Thanks for the good news...

[LGChris]

Can you get us in the queue for the first pallet? :o

Thanks for the good news...

I'm doing my best to make sure we have some when it becomes available, but that's tricky with products earmarked for LE sales.

[vcdgrips]

LATE TO THE PARTY:

What is the best we can buy now in 12g? Another FC product perhaps?

thx
D

[RoyGBiv]

LATE TO THE PARTY:

What is the best we can buy now in 12g? Another FC product perhaps?

thx
D

The "00" version works well for me. LE13200

ETA: On sale and in stock for $3.99/box of 5
https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/949-federal-premium-12-ga-reduced-recoil-2-3-4-9-pellet-flitecontrol-00-buck-shot.html
(https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/949-federal-premium-12-ga-reduced-recoil-2-3-4-9-pellet-flitecontrol-00-buck-shot.html)
ETA2: SG Ammo is cheaper. Also in stock.
https://www.sgammo.com/site_search?populate=LE13200

[Guerrero]

Federal Flite-Control 00 Buck (LE13300)
Federal Flite-Control 00 Buck Low-Recoil (LE13200)

[LGChris]

LATE TO THE PARTY:

What is the best we can buy now in 12g? Another FC product perhaps?

thx
D

Federal Flite Control 00 8-pellet: https://www.luckygunner.com/12-ga-2-3-4-00-buck-federal-8p-law-enforcement-flitecontrol-wad-250-round

Federal Flite Control 00 9-pellet: https://www.luckygunner.com/12ga-234-federal-tactical-00buck-250

I prefer the 8 pellet. The 9 pellet load consistently has one flyer pellet out of every shell.

[TGS]

I'm doing my best to make sure we have some when it becomes available, but that's tricky with products earmarked for LE sales.

So what you mean to say is that you're getting a special run in bright orange hulls for P-F.com, yeah?

:cool:

I'd put in 4 cases (1000 rounds total) just for that out of principle.

[Lester Polfus]

I prefer the 8 pellet. The 9 pellet load consistently has one flyer pellet out of every shell.

I think every 9 pellet load, out of every shotgun I've ever fired, has been 8 pellets and a career-ending, lawsuit inspiring flyer.

[ssb]

I'm definitely down for some if LG ends up getting them in though FWIW I'm not at all uncomfortable with my current 8-pellet FliteControl and I don't feel any less capable with it loaded in my 870.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Federal Flite Control 00 8-pellet: https://www.luckygunner.com/12-ga-2-3-4-00-buck-federal-8p-law-enforcement-flitecontrol-wad-250-round

Federal Flite Control 00 9-pellet: https://www.luckygunner.com/12ga-234-federal-tactical-00buck-250

I prefer the 8 pellet. The 9 pellet load consistently has one flyer pellet out of every shell.

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/shotgun/tap-reduced-recoil/tap-reduced-recoil

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/shotgun/12-ga-00-buckshot#!/

Hornady's TAP and Critical Defense are 8-pellet loads that use Versatite wads, which I believe Doc has said are similar to Federal's FC.

Options are good.

[ragnar_d]

We made a quick visit to the Federal HQ last week and I talked to some of their folks about #1 FC. There will be more soon, hopefully early next year. Not sure if I should say anything more. My impression is it that the scarcity of #1 FC is not due to lack of demand and that load has plenty of fans inside the company.
I know my CSR/Sales Rep replied to me and CC'ed another party who I haven't met. I asked 'em to let me know when it was available as I was wanting to order 4 cases for myself. Hopefully I get an email in early 2019. :cool:

[LGChris]

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/shotgun/tap-reduced-recoil/tap-reduced-recoil

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/shotgun/12-ga-00-buckshot#!/

Hornady's TAP and Critical Defense are 8-pellet loads that use Versatite wads, which I believe Doc has said are similar to Federal's FC.

Options are good.

The Critical Defense 00 load is over 400 fps faster than the 8-pellet FliteControl (and you can feel every bit of that when you shoot it). Considering 00 FliteControl does about 20" in ordnance gel, I'm not sure a 33% increase in velocity is the best idea accountability-wise.

[Chuck Whitlock]

The Critical Defense 00 load is over 400 fps faster than the 8-pellet FliteControl (and you can feel every bit of that when you shoot it). Considering 00 FliteControl does about 20" in ordnance gel, I'm not sure a 33% increase in velocity is the best idea accountability-wise.

Which is why I included the TAP round. :cool:

[Spartan1980]

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/shotgun/tap-reduced-recoil/tap-reduced-recoil

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/shotgun/12-ga-00-buckshot#!/

Hornady's TAP and Critical Defense are 8-pellet loads that use Versatite wads, which I believe Doc has said are similar to Federal's FC.

Options are good.

That TAP round might work. Like you said the Versatite wad is essentially identical to the FC, I think they are both paying royalties on the same patent. The CD round doesn't pattern anywhere near as good as FC out of my Benelli or 590A1. Both with cylinder barrels which is ideal for that wad. I think it's because of the extra velocity the wad separates faster. The Federal loads use shot buffer which helps too whereas the Hornady doesn't. I might have to find some of that TAP just to find out how close it gets to the FC.

[Aray]

I'm in for 8 pellet 00 or #1 or whatever LGChris can get. At least 2, probably 5 cases.

[Unobtanium]

I'm in for 8 pellet 00 or #1 or whatever LGChris can get. At least 2, probably 5 cases.

You can buy all but #1 readily right now. I prefer the 9 pellet load. Your gun will dictate. I hate giving up a pellet for nothing and the 8 and 9 both throw fliers at the same rate for my guns.

[witchking777]

That TAP round might work. Like you said the Versatite wad is essentially identical to the FC, I think they are both paying royalties on the same patent. The CD round doesn't pattern anywhere near as good as FC out of my Benelli or 590A1. Both with cylinder barrels which is ideal for that wad. I think it's because of the extra velocity the wad separates faster. The Federal loads use shot buffer which helps too whereas the Hornady doesn't. I might have to find some of that TAP just to find out how close it gets to the FC.
The Federal stuff is also copper plated,whereas the Hornady is plain lead.

[Unobtanium]

The Federal stuff is also copper plated,whereas the Hornady is plain lead.

I think the buffering is the biggest issue, as well as the velocity/deformation associated with.

[Aray]

You can buy all but #1 readily right now. I prefer the 9 pellet load. Your gun will dictate. I hate giving up a pellet for nothing and the 8 and 9 both throw fliers at the same rate for my guns.

I am aware of the availability and performance of 8 and 9 #00. I am, however, down for any group buy discounts.

[Unobtanium]

I am aware of the availability and performance of 8 and 9 #00. I am, however, down for any group buy discounts.

Unless the supplier chooses to eat their margins, there is no way Federal is making a concession for such a small order, but hey, I'm in, too, once the numbers are finalized if they look good. If a group buy on #1 buck is better than what it can be had at otherwise, then count me in.

[Unobtanium]

Lol! Someone emailed the wrong person. Earned us a 150% price increase on LE ammo from Vista. (Wasnt me!)

[Spartan1980]

The Federal stuff is also copper plated,whereas the Hornady is plain lead.

I wasn't aware of that (the Federal). Nice to know!

[jellydonut]

Fear not, intrepid shotguneers - for Federal has bestowed upon thee manna from heaven. https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-law-enforcement-tactical-ammo-12-gauge-2-34-buckshot-15-pellets-le1321b-p-58630.aspx

[Coyotesfan97]

Fear not, intrepid shotguneers - for Federal has bestowed upon thee manna from heaven. https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-law-enforcement-tactical-ammo-12-gauge-2-34-buckshot-15-pellets-le1321b-p-58630.aspx

Got a case. Thank you!

[Jay Cunningham]

On it!

Magic ammo!!

[SeriousStudent]

Thanks, I got a case as well.

This will be interesting to test in my many scatterguns. I'll hopefully have the Form 1's back on two more SBS's in about a month. I'll be interested in how in compares across the Remington 870, Mossberg 590A1 and Browning Auto-5 whippit. All of them will have 14" barrels and full chokes.

Then compare it with the 8-pellet and 9-pellet Flite Control loads.

[Clusterfrack]

Woot! Got a case.

[ASH556]

LOL, that didn't last long. I bought the last 6 boxes they had in stock @ 3:17 pm.

[Tabasco]

Looks like full cases are gone...

[jellydonut]

That's wild, when I posted it said 99+.

I'm glad I could help some PFers grab theirs. Make sure to sign up with your email there for back-in-stock notification if you didn't get a case.

[RoyGBiv]

Phukin gone! :p

[RevolverRob]

Is this stuff made out of unicorn farts and pixie dust?

I've NEVER seen it in stock, anywhere, ever. I've seen more .40 Super for sale than I have FC #1.

[Jay Cunningham]

Is this stuff made out of unicorn farts and pixie dust?

I've NEVER seen it in stock, anywhere, ever. I've seen more .40 Super for sale than I have FC #1.

It’s guaranteed to win gunfights.

https://youtu.be/JFzpEUrynEg

33979

[JHC]

That's wild, when I posted it said 99+.

I'm glad I could help some PFers grab theirs. Make sure to sign up with your email there for back-in-stock notification if you didn't get a case.

You done good Jelly. Real good. :D

[RevolverRob]

It’s guaranteed to win gunfights.

Shiiiiiit....

I'm gonna die now without FC #1 in my scattergun aren't I?

I might as well attach a tanto to the stock to commit seppuku with when my 00 @ 10 yards fails.

[JHC]

Shiiiiiit....

I'm gonna die now without FC #1 in my scattergun aren't I?

I might as well attach a tanto to the stock to commit seppuku with when my 00 @ 10 yards fails.

FCC 00 buck is still available. What I'm saying is you'll have a chance.


I'll buy more #1 when I see it. Still have plenty but have some 00 too.

[RevolverRob]

FCC 00 buck is still available. What I'm saying is you'll have a chance.

I'll buy more #1 when I see it. Still have plenty but have some 00 too.

True -

I have about a case and a half of Hornady Critical Defense; which is basically just full power 8-pellet flite-control (sorry "versatite") 00. I honestly haven't even done more than a cursory look for FC #1, because I haven't seen compelling evidence for why I should leave power on the table with my buckshot choices. Admittedly, I don't do a ton of speed work with my shotguns, but neither I nor my wife have problems shooting full bore out an 870 with a Magpul SGA and push-pull.

But then again, I'm also the weirdo with screw-in chokes in his shotgun, so I can, you know, tailor the gun to fire to most buckshot loads available.

[JHC]

True -

I have about a case and a half of Hornady Critical Defense; which is basically just full power 8-pellet flite-control (sorry "versatite") 00. I honestly haven't even done more than a cursory look for FC #1, because I haven't seen compelling evidence for why I should leave power on the table with my buckshot choices. Admittedly, I don't do a ton of speed work with my shotguns, but neither I nor my wife have problems shooting full bore out an 870 with a Magpul SGA and push-pull.

But then again, I'm also the weirdo with screw-in chokes in his shotgun, so I can, you know, tailor the gun to fire to most buckshot loads available.

Apparently Danger is your middle name! #1 is cool but hey, 00 ain't tiddlywinks

[Jay Cunningham]

Use the 00 to fight your way to the #1.

[RevolverRob]

Use the 00 to fight your way to the #1.

And then use the #1 to fight to ma forty-five, because they ain't got a forty-six.

[Jay Cunningham]

In case anyone thinks I’m being snarky - I am... but I did IN FACT buy a case the instant I saw the h/u post.

I can be quite snarky about my own proclivities.

[Hambo]

You guys and this girly #1 buckshot. :rolleyes: I'll die proudly with magnum 00 hulls around my body. :cool:

[Norville]

OK, so I start this thread then miss the restock.

[pangloss]

Almost all gone.

Completely gone. I missed it. Very sad!

[GyroF-16]

An “in-stock” Notification email arrived from Target Sports while I was at the range shooting today.
Just now read it after cleaning my gun. And they’re already out of stock.

Crap!

I hope there’s some more on the way to target sports, or maybe one of our other favorite suppliers.

[SeriousStudent]

It’s guaranteed to win gunfights.

...

Who says so?

Top. Men. :cool:

[Drang]

Behold! The power of P-F.com! Maybe if we keep this up the manufacturers will take notice, and offer us sweet deals.

Or Tom_Jones, anyway...


Shiiiiiit....

I'm gonna die now without FC #1 in my scattergun aren't I?

I might as well attach a tanto to the stock to commit seppuku with when my 00 @ 10 yards fails.

Kilt in th' streets, bro, kilt in th' streets.

<<<Off to reset the "Product in Stock" notices...

[RevolverRob]

Kilt in th' streets, bro, kilt in th' streets.

Since it’s an HD gun that’s next to the bed - I think it’s technically kilt in th’ sheets.

I’m cargo shorts in th’ streets, kilt in th’ sheets.

[jwperry]

If one place received a restock, would it be safe to assume LGChris statement that we should see some "early next year" (post 83) which would be now, mean that other vendors will soon accumulate inventory?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[Lester Polfus]

Why do I carry #1 Buck?

Because they don't make....

Oh. Wait....

[Coyotesfan97]

Well this came in this morning while I was drinking coffee. Agent Franks approvedhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190115/e922f61de89e5d20e73430833d697359.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GyroF-16]

Sure... rub it in, why don’t cha...

[iveschris]

Just put a case in the basement from TargetSports

[Hambo]

If one place received a restock, would it be safe to assume LGChris statement that we should see some "early next year" (post 83) which would be now, mean that other vendors will soon accumulate inventory?

No, it's a big conspiracy. There's actually four tons of #1 in a warehouse at Federal but they only release it ten cases at a time. Then sit back and laugh.

[RevolverRob]

Federal is just trying to get ahead of future ammunition control laws.

First, by shutting down 50-round boxes of HST to non-LE and now parceling out #1 Flite Control in just enough volume to make everyone think they have a chance, but don’t.

I know this post is meant to be tongue-in-cheek and I’ve been a big fan of Federal and especially HST for years now. But this is kind of chapping my ass. I already switched to Hornady for buckshot, if I can actually get Winchester Ranger pistol ammo and slugs reliably, I may quit ATK totally.

[Hambo]

Federal is just trying to get ahead of future ammunition control laws.

First, by shutting down 50-round boxes of HST to non-LE and now parceling out #1 Flite Control in just enough volume to make everyone think they have a chance, but don’t.

I know this post is meant to be tongue-in-cheek and I’ve been a big fan of Federal and especially HST for years now. But this is kind of chapping my ass. I already switched to Hornady for buckshot, if I can actually get Winchester Ranger pistol ammo and slugs reliably, I may quit ATK totally.

Federal is trying to make money by limiting who gets ammo at the "discounted" LE price. When googling some ammo I saw that Bud's has a "qualified professional" program. I'm too lazy to comply so I'll just buy ammo from other manufacturers. I have less than a case total of FC 00 and 4 buck, but that's probably sufficient for the rest of my given that I rarely ever shoot it. If I can't get more, I'll test another brand through various choke tubes til I get the pattern I want.

[Spartan1980]

Federal is just trying to get ahead of future ammunition control laws.

First, by shutting down 50-round boxes of HST to non-LE and now parceling out #1 Flite Control in just enough volume to make everyone think they have a chance, but don’t.

I know this post is meant to be tongue-in-cheek and I’ve been a big fan of Federal and especially HST for years now. But this is kind of chapping my ass. I already switched to Hornady for buckshot, if I can actually get Winchester Ranger pistol ammo and slugs reliably, I may quit ATK totally.

Same here. But in all honesty all the major manufacturers have been doing this for years. Ever since they all decided to package their same old stuff in new pretty retail packaging at 20 or 25 count boxes and charge the same for them as they had always charged for the 50 counts. That's how long its been going on. It's just recently that they (FED and Speer) decided to crack down on online sales and implement a tracking system on them. They all vary on how strict they are, or at least varied in the past.

Several years back in one of the big ammo shortages I found a stockpile of 9mm +P Critical Duty at a LGS. It was the only 9mm I had seen on a shelf anywhere in a long time. Sign said 2 box limit. Price was about $38 per. Said I'd take 2 boxes. He said "great, let me see your CLEET card". Told him I didn't have one and he said he couldn't sell it. Went on to explain that if Hornady caught them selling to non-LEO or non-military they would never get any more to sell. They were occasionally doing "spot" buys at the time unless he was just blowing smoke.

So I called my buddy who is a state trooper and asked if he would. He stopped by on his way home from work, in his full uniform. He was a member of the range there, a regular, and they all knew him. His wife was a former employee there too. They were there a couple times a week usually. They made him show his CLEET card. Not bullshitting at all...

[TGS]

They made him show his CLEET card. Not bullshitting at all...

Was the dealer obliged to write down some sort of number for a logbook documenting the sales of said ammo, by any chance? If so, I could see them wanting to see a badge number or whatever sort of identifier could be on that CLEET card, whatever it is.

[Spartan1980]

Was the dealer obliged to write down some sort of number for a logbook documenting the sales of said ammo, by any chance? If so, I could see them wanting to see a badge number or whatever sort of identifier could be on that CLEET card, whatever it is.

In Oklahoma CLEET is the Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training which is a state agency. I'm pretty sure, but not certain, that every sworn officer in the state has an ID from CLEET. It kind of goes with the badge is my understanding.

[Coyotesfan97]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190202/8fd27017c318300e1c491ae3839d6330.jpg

From seven yards with my 1301

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190202/e846855f8a2e5c0a95849d256ab65324.jpg

From 15 yards with the 1301


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[perlslacker]

Bringing this thread back to life!

SGAmmo has a couple different makes of cheapo #1 buck available, S&B and Rio IIRC. I ordered a box of the S&B to see how it patterns.

[blake_g]

Bringing this thread back to life!

SGAmmo has a couple different makes of cheapo #1 buck available, S&B and Rio IIRC. I ordered a box of the S&B to see how it patterns.

I've shot the Rio out of a Cyl bore and was not impressed at all, however that changed when I shot it out of a 14" Vang Comp'd barrel and more impressive yet when using a Mod choke from the 21" Turkey barrel. I guess every shotgun is truly a law unto itself...

[the Schwartz]

I haven't read the entire thread, but what about the Remington Express 12-gauge 2¾'' #1 Buckshot (16 .30-caliber pellets each weighing 40-grains at 1,250 fps) as an option to the Federal #1 Buck shell being discussed here? My retiring agency has issued the Remington load since long before I hired on there and they have had exceptional results with it in the field.

[blake_g]

I haven't read the entire thread, but what about the Remington Express 12-gauge 2¾'' #1 Buckshot (16 .30-caliber pellets each weighing 40-grains at 1,250 fps) as an option to the Federal #1 Buck shell being discussed here? My retiring agency has issued the Remington load since long before I hired on there and they have had exceptional results with it in the field.

I'm probably speaking out of turn here, but from my experience it's not the fact that it's #1 buck but the FliteControl wad that is the significant part of the equation here. Several folks make #1 Buck, only Federal makes the FC wad...

[the Schwartz]

I'm probably speaking out of turn here, but from my experience it's not the fact that it's #1 buck but the FliteControl wad that is the significant part of the equation here. Several folks make #1 Buck, only Federal makes the FC wad...

Yeah, I was aware of that, Blake. My suggestion was intended merely as another possible option. :)

[Chuck Whitlock]

I wonder if someone could convince Hornady to offer a #1B (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1B) option with their version of the Versatite wad.

[Spartan1980]

I can say from 1st hand experience that the Hornady doesn't shoot anything at all like the Federal. I suspect that it's because Hornady doesn't use shot buffer and Federal does use a buffer. I've tried both 00 Critical Defense and #4 buck Varmint Express. Hornady = No bueno in 2 different guns.

the Schwartz I use the equivalent Winchester load and it patterns pretty well out of my 590A1. Since the Remington is buffered I'd expect it to be similar. Midway used to have the Winchester in stock pretty regularly, but now only seem to have the 3" version available.

[the Schwartz]

the Schwartz I use the equivalent Winchester load and it patterns pretty well out of my 590A1. Since the Remington is buffered I'd expect it to be similar. Midway used to have the Winchester in stock pretty regularly, but now only seem to have the 3" version available.

Is the Winchester load buffered?

[blake_g]

Yeah, I was aware of that, Blake. My suggestion was intended merely as another possible option. :)

Roger that - i figured but you never know...

[Spartan1980]

Is the Winchester load buffered?

Yes.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190418/63b793b6260514ba9997e30019ed2773.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190418/c15643f4d2e365dcffab178117099c55.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190418/c9852c7e05a870c9fc79f2967c238ce3.jpg

ETA: Damn those pics are big! Noted to use medium in the future...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spartan1980]

Luckygunner has them in stock and at a decent price too.

https://www.luckygunner.com/12-gauge-2-3-4-16-p-1-buck-win-xb121-5-rounds

[the Schwartz]

Luckygunner has them in stock and at a decent price too.

https://www.luckygunner.com/12-gauge-2-3-4-16-p-1-buck-win-xb121-5-rounds

Well, clearly you are an adverse influence on me...:cool:

Found myself at the LGS this a.m. when I came across 12 boxes of the stuff priced at $3.88 each. Took them all. Now my wallet is forty bucks lighter. :rolleyes:

[Old Man Winter]

I've patterned the Remington Express #1 and Winchester Super-X #1 out of a 21" M1 and 18.5" 870. Patterns were 3 times the size even at 5-yards compared to the Federal load.

[blake_g]

I've patterned the Remington Express #1 and Winchester Super-X #1 out of a 21" M1 and 18.5" 870. Patterns were 3 times the size even at 5-yards compared to the Federal load.

What were you using for choke???

[Old Man Winter]

What were you using for choke???

The 870 is cylinder bore and the Benelli is running a SK or IC choke depending on the load.

[LtDave]

I've patterned the Remington Express #1 and Winchester Super-X #1 out of a 21" M1 and 18.5" 870. Patterns were 3 times the size even at 5-yards compared to the Federal load.

I've patterned the Winchester and Federal loads out of a Beretta 1301 Comp and a TX-4. At 10 yards, the Federal shot into 2" and 1" respectively. The Winchester #1 load did 8" out of both guns at 10 yards. Also shot the Federal #1 out of a Benelli Nova and a Browning A-5 with Vang choke. It did 2" out of both those guns at 10 yards as well.
At 20 yards, the Federal #1 ranged from 4" to 9" with the largest pattern out of the A-5. The Berettas did 4" and 5" respectively. I shot the 1301 Comp at 30 yards and got a 12" pattern with the Federal.

I didn't try the Winchester load at 20 yards.

Haven't tried the Remington load.

[Drang]

Just stopped at the Federal Booth at #NRAAM (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NRAAM) , and asked about the supply.

I was told that they were having issues with flyers, and that they needed to redesign the Flite Control Wad for #1 Buck, and that they pulled it completely until that was done. He said even Law Enforcement won't be able to get more until that was done.

[Jay Cunningham]

Just stopped at the Federal Booth at #NRAAM (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NRAAM) , and asked about the supply.

I was told that they were having issues with flyers, and that they needed to redesign the Flite Control Wad for #1 Buck, and that they pulled it completely until that was done. He said even Law Enforcement won't be able to get more until that was done.

Interesting!

[DocGKR]

Yes--it is being improved.

[GyroF-16]

Just stopped at the Federal Booth at #NRAAM (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NRAAM) , and asked about the supply.

I was told that they were having issues with flyers, and that they needed to redesign the Flite Control Wad for #1 Buck, and that they pulled it completely until that was done. He said even Law Enforcement won't be able to get more until that was done.

Good to know - thanks for sharing that tidbit.
There sure will be some pent-up demand to satisfy when it becomes available again.

[Unobtanium]

Just stopped at the Federal Booth at #NRAAM (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NRAAM) , and asked about the supply.

I was told that they were having issues with flyers, and that they needed to redesign the Flite Control Wad for #1 Buck, and that they pulled it completely until that was done. He said even Law Enforcement won't be able to get more until that was done.

I said this over a year ago. Very erratic performance, and fliers.

[Drang]

I said this over a year ago. Very erratic performance, and fliers.

Apparently you convinced them.:)

[Unobtanium]

Apparently you convinced them.:)

Nah, but I do take credit for asking Jeff Hoffman to consider neck sealant on their Barnes and GMX rifle loadings a few years back. Very happy about that!

[TCinVA]

I did notice that the FC wads are now red...didn't know if that was a signal of some sort of significant change or not, or possibly a way to distinguish between possible different wads in future production.

[Norville]

I did notice that the FC wads are now red...didn't know if that was a signal of some sort of significant change or not, or possibly a way to distinguish between possible different wads in future production.

Interesting. I’ve noticed that my last case of 8 pellet doesn’t seem to pattern as tightly as I remember. Just got in a new one, better open it and check...

[Unobtanium]

Debugged, yet?

[ccmdfd]

Debugged, yet?

+1

[Drang]

I'm sure several people here will have the opportunity to ask about it at SHOT.

[SWAT Lt.]

It is no longer listed on Federal's LE website. Only 00 Buck loads are shown.

[jellydonut]

So they discontinue #1 buck, and then they release.. this.. thing? https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/02/federal-force-x2-shotgun-ammo-00-buckshot-that-splits-in-half/

[TCinVA]

So they discontinue #1 buck, and then they release.. this.. thing? https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/02/federal-force-x2-shotgun-ammo-00-buckshot-that-splits-in-half/

I'll be interested to see how it does in testing. I'm not instantly opposed to it.

If we can get it with flight control level patterning and it reduces the possibility of over-penetration it's not a bad thing.

The idea of the pellets splitting up once they're inside the target isn't as good as more projectiles hitting at the same place at roughly the same time, though. More individual wound tracks are nice in that there's more chances of hitting something CNS related...assuming it penetrates deeply enough to accomplish that.

[Spartan1980]

So they discontinue #1 buck, and then they release.. this.. thing? https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/02/federal-force-x2-shotgun-ammo-00-buckshot-that-splits-in-half/

Hmm...Interesting.

But I can't help but think that won't pattern worth a damn much past 10 yards. What I've found by comparing the Federal flight control and Hornady Critical Defense, which use the same exact wad, is the Federal trounces the Hornady. This is because Federal uses copper plated shot along with a shot buffer. Hornady just uses bare shot with no buffer. I'm pretty sure that shot deformation is a lot more in the Hornady load and that's what causes it's much larger groups. That belt looking thing on the shot can't be very aerodynamic, but it may be a hell of a good load up close.

[Hambo]

It is no longer listed on Federal's LE website. Only 00 Buck loads are shown.

I didn't see #1 buckshot on the Federal site, just 000, 00, and 4.

[GJM]

I need to order some, what is the preferred buck, available now, for the 1301?

[JodyH]

I need to order some, what is the preferred buck, available now, for the 1301?
8 pellet 00 Flite-Control if you have a cylinder bore, 9 pellet has more flyers in all my shotguns.

[TCinVA]

8 pellet 00 Flite-Control if you have a cylinder bore, 9 pellet has more flyers in all my shotguns.

This.

I've seen exactly one gun that shot 9 pellet better than 8 and it wasn't spectacular with either.

In the 1301 performance of 8 pellet fight control ranges from good to amazing:

46664

This client in a JDC class last year had purchased an LTT 1301 and was using 8 pellet Federal Flight Control with it. We shot at 10, 15, and 25 yards. What you see in that target is the combination of all those patterns. At 25 yards his pattern was still so tight that pellets didn't leave the 9 ring of a B8 target.

[revchuck38]

8 pellet 00 Flite-Control if you have a cylinder bore, 9 pellet has more flyers in all my shotguns.

+1. Not a 1301, but the 8 pellet works better in my 870 and 590A1.

[JHC]

I need to order some, what is the preferred buck, available now, for the 1301?

Looking for anti-coyote shotshells I've seen they use FliteControl for some 3" and 3.5" 00B coyote loads. Big payloads, 12 pellets and 15 respectively.

[BobM]

Looking for anti-coyote shotshells I've seen they use FliteControl for some 3" and 3.5" 00B coyote loads. Big payloads, 12 pellets and 15 respectively.

Hornady has a #4 with the Versa-tite wad marketed as a varmint load, as well as a more expensive 00 3” load.

[LtDave]

I have a Benelli Nova that really likes the 9 pellet Federal Flite Control. As a general rule, the Federal 8 pellet load shoots a little tighter for me.

[M2CattleCo]

Any felt recoil difference between the 9 and 8 pellet loads?

[revchuck38]

Not that I’ve noticed.

[Doc_Glock]

8 pellet #00 available currently.

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-law-enforcement-tactical-12-gauge-ammo-2-34-00-buckshot-le13300-p-3291.aspx

[revchuck38]

8 pellet #00 available currently.

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-law-enforcement-tactical-12-gauge-ammo-2-34-00-buckshot-le13300-p-3291.aspx

Thanks, ordered ten boxes.

[WobblyPossum]

Out of stock already.

[revchuck38]

Out of stock already.

Dang, it said 99+ when I ordered. I wonder if P-F cleaned them out?

[WDR]

Anything popular is selling out in short order these days. SG Ammo had nothing but CCI snake shot available on their 9mm ammo page last I looked....

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Thoughts on Century Arms Red Army Standard 9mm Luger Ammunition?

[vandal]

I just posted a case of LE132-1B on Gunbroker at extortion prices to see what will happen.

[37th Mass]

I didn’t see the #1 Buck flight control wad shells that started this whole thread, but Federal has other buckshot loads available for order on their website.

https://www.federalpremium.com/shotshell/

[PearTree]

Bumping this thread, anyone heard if the improved version is coming out anytime soon? My backup, le13300, is also out of stock everywhere.

[DDTSGM]

Bumping this thread, anyone heard if the improved version is coming out anytime soon? My backup, le13300, is also out of stock everywhere.

I just bumped in because I saw the activity. I have a couple of sleeves of LE132 1B which I am zealously protecting.

I don't think LE132 1B is going to be on Federal's radar for a while.

My perception was that a lot of folks clamored for it, but apparently they weren't the ultimate decision makers for their agencies and the LE orders didn't come in the quantities needed.

Consider also that LE has, by-and-large, moved away from the shotgun to the patrol rifle in the last decade.

The sales just weren't there.

It would be my guess that somewhere in the bowels of Vista there is a program manager sitting at a desk in a converted supply closet. As his co-workers walk past they whisper to each other "He was a rising star, then he convinced them that LE was ready to move from 00B to 1B, rumor is that the only reason he's still here is because he caught the CEO....."

[Unobtanium]

I just bumped in because I saw the activity. I have a couple of sleeves of LE132 1B which I am zealously protecting.

I don't think LE132 1B is going to be on Federal's radar for a while.

My perception was that a lot of folks clamored for it, but apparently they weren't the ultimate decision makers for their agencies and the LE orders didn't come in the quantities needed.

Consider also that LE has, by-and-large, moved away from the shotgun to the patrol rifle in the last decade.

The sales just weren't there.

It would be my guess that somewhere in the bowels of Vista there is a program manager sitting at a desk in a converted supply closet. As his co-workers walk past they whisper to each other "He was a rising star, then he convinced them that LE was ready to move from 00B to 1B, rumor is that the only reason he's still here is because he caught the CEO....."
In my experience, it was an erratic performer. Maybe Federal is just taking a minute to sort it out.

[OlongJohnson]

In my experience, it was an erratic performer. Maybe Federal is just taking a minute to sort it out.

It's been pretty well hashed over that there were issues in a lot of guns with a stray pellet or two from the 1B, and it seems Federal was not able to sort that out. So I'm not expecting it to be produced again. Eight pellet works and doesn't have the stray pellet issue.

[GearFondler]

It's been pretty well hashed over that there were issues in a lot of guns with a stray pellet or two from the 1B, and it seems Federal was not able to sort that out. So I'm not expecting it to be produced again. Eight pellet works and doesn't have the stray pellet issue.I've got a small stash of #1 that I'm keeping just for HD because it's just so devastating but I was unaware of the previous discussions regarding strays.
That being said, I did notice the possibility when I patterned my 1301T...

Even at 10 yds you can see one pellet from each shell is starting to go its own way.
At 25 yds I got one very low flyer from the first shot but the second shot stayed relatively tight. So yeah, some inconsistency is definitely a possibility.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210919/b84961437bc27746f74aa404ad23c1f2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210919/13413454011e53b9a3da32a795543b89.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210919/7cb80c518b634cd94cd414d4d81ecf2c.jpg

[Glock17JHP]

#1 FC is by far the best shot load available for LE and self-defense.
I was not aware that Federal had eventually offered the #1 Buck in a FC load. I could not find such a load on Federal's LE site when I looked today, it looks like it was discontinued in 2018.. I still have about 450 rounds of Winchester's RA1200, and prefer that load's pattern size over Federal's LE132 00 load for home defense use.
NOTE: Keep in mind that SALES are what drives manufacturing, regardless of what is a better/lesser load. Also, keep in mind that in LE use, 00 Buck is going to be better at penetration than 1 Buck, all else being equal... so barrier penetration would not be as good with 1 Buck, and that matters.

[Spartan1980]

It's been pretty well hashed over that there were issues in a lot of guns with a stray pellet or two from the 1B, and it seems Federal was not able to sort that out. So I'm not expecting it to be produced again. Eight pellet works and doesn't have the stray pellet issue.

I know exactly how to make it work and it would likely work better than FC. But alas, it would be a non-starter for Federal because it wouldn't work well in cylinder bores, it would be basically a slug in them. It would actually take a very tight choke constriction which isn't standard or common in LE, it would be more costly to buy, and factoring the reason Dan Lehr stated with police shotguns largely on the wane? Well, it would go over exactly like a lead zeppelin on the marketing/sales front.

On the plus side Remington and Winchester both have good buffered #1 buck loads. They can be found pretty easily compared to anything FC right now and unbuffered S&B buck is seemingly everywhere. I've bought Win and Rem several times in the last 6 years at quite reasonable pricing when FC was hard to find. It works for me as it's strictly a close range load (for me) but FC is markedly better at distance.

Only in-stock I could find at this time (https://www.sgammo.com/product/12-gauge-ammo/5-round-box-remington-12-gauge-275-inch-number-1-buckshot-16-pellet-12b1)

[Glock17JHP]

I know exactly how to make it work and it would likely work better than FC. But alas, it would be a non-starter for Federal because it wouldn't work well in cylinder bores, it would be basically a slug in them. It would actually take a very tight choke constriction which isn't standard or common in LE, it would be more costly to buy, and factoring the reason Dan Lehr stated with police shotguns largely on the wane? Well, it would go over exactly like a lead zeppelin on the marketing/sales front.

On the plus side Remington and Winchester both have good buffered #1 buck loads. They can be found pretty easily compared to anything FC right now and unbuffered S&B buck is seemingly everywhere. I've bought Win and Rem several times in the last 6 years at quite reasonable pricing when FC was hard to find. It works for me as it's strictly a close range load (for me) but FC is markedly better at distance.

Only in-stock I could find at this time (https://www.sgammo.com/product/12-gauge-ammo/5-round-box-remington-12-gauge-275-inch-number-1-buckshot-16-pellet-12b1)

Just be careful to pay attention to velocities when choosing buckshot for home defense/self defense... LE loads are lower velocity than hunting loads.

[revchuck38]

Just be careful to pay attention to velocities when choosing buckshot for home defense/self defense... LE loads are lower velocity than hunting loads.

True, but you can find lower-velocity hunting loads (https://www.federalpremium.com/shotshell/power-shok/power-shok-buckshot---low-recoil/11-H132+00.html).

[Glock17JHP]

True, but you can find lower-velocity hunting loads (https://www.federalpremium.com/shotshell/power-shok/power-shok-buckshot---low-recoil/11-H132+00.html).
Good to know ! ! ! Most buckshot loads I see that are for hunting are closer to 1325 fps. Thank you for that info.

[revolvergeek]

Thanks, I got a case as well.

This will be interesting to test in my many scatterguns. I'll hopefully have the Form 1's back on two more SBS's in about a month. I'll be interested in how in compares across the Remington 870, Mossberg 590A1 and Browning Auto-5 whippit. All of them will have 14" barrels and full chokes.

Then compare it with the 8-pellet and 9-pellet Flite Control loads.

How did they work out? I am thinking of building up a Remington 11 whippit. I stopped by Cotton Branch Custom and looked at guns and options and I don't see how I can resist it...

[LHS]

This.

I've seen exactly one gun that shot 9 pellet better than 8 and it wasn't spectacular with either.

In the 1301 performance of 8 pellet fight control ranges from good to amazing:

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This client in a JDC class last year had purchased an LTT 1301 and was using 8 pellet Federal Flight Control with it. We shot at 10, 15, and 25 yards. What you see in that target is the combination of all those patterns. At 25 yards his pattern was still so tight that pellets didn't leave the 9 ring of a B8 target.

I've now seen 3 barrels that shoot low-recoil 9-pellet tighter than they do the 8-pellet stuff. Interestingly enough, all of them were Mossbergs, 2x 500s and a 590. Hell, my VEPR shoots the Hornady stuff tighter than 9-pellet FC, which is an anomaly if ever there was one.

But my 870s, both Vanged and non-Vanged, seem to prefer the 8-pellet stuff. Interestingly enough, while taking Tom Givens' shotgun instructor class last month, I was unable to source any 8-pellet and didn't want to dip into my reserves, so I shot a mix of high-test and decaf 9-pellet FC buck. The low-recoil stuff tended to throw that 9th-pellet flyer ever other shot or so, not terribly far, but enough that it was noticeable compared to past performance of that barrel with 8-pellet. The high-test stuff, though... I don't think I'd want to use it out of M'Bogo past about 18 yards or so. At 15 during the practice runs, I was routinely dropping those flyers close to the edge of the Q-target bottle. Dad actually dropped a point on the qual because he grabbed a box of HV by mistake and had a flyer leave the bottle.

Also I've seen similar performance out of 1301s, Tim. Landfair had one at a class a few years back that was almost as good as that one with the 8-pellet stuff. Really outstanding patterning.

[Doug MacRay]

At 15:54 in the below video, Dan from Federal talks about why a few of their most popular (with people like us) products have been hard to find, including 12 gauge 8 pellet 00 FC as well as #1 FC. Apparently they were unable to consistently reproduce the performance they originally obtained with their first run of #1 buck, spreadwise. The good news is that they haven't forgotten about it and we might see it again in the future.

https://youtu.be/qYra4eIxU4I?si=3XRGEanEOBzk-hYI