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Dan_S
09-27-2018, 07:53 AM
I’be been looking at purchasing...something...for a while now, but am finally in a position to pull it off.

My initial knowledge of pricing etc is about ten years old, and...needless to say, I was shocked when I started looking again a few months ago. No more $6k Uzis, that’s for sure.

Given the market at this point, what’s the best bang for the buck, at a price point under, say, $20k?


Here’s what I’ve been seeing:

Uzis are 12-14. I don’t know much about them (other than that they suppress REALLY well..) and got confused by the different options - registered receivers, bolts, sears...??

Reising - looks like a pretty cool option, for under $10k. Not sure about parts availability or shootability...

FNC, can be found for ~15k. Again, unsure about parts.

Thompson. If you look, you can find them for close to $20k. I do have trigger time on a Thompson, and while a really cool historical piece, I didn’t actually find it that interesting as a shooter.

PPsH-41....can’t find any current listings. If I could find one for sale, I’d probably be all over that thing...

Anything obvious I’m missing? Suggestions...?

JRB
09-27-2018, 11:05 AM
Knowing what I know now, I'd absolutely spring a little bit more and get a transferable AR lower. They do dip into the high teens from time to time.
-Multiple calibers very easily
-Effective and easy to modernize (or build retro, whatever you want)
-Tons and tons and tons and tons of support parts available
-Next to zero wear possible of transferable part (with KNS anti-rotation pins)

To answer your questions:
UZI's - ideally you want a registered receiver that's a converted original IMI semi *without* the blocking bar. The perfect specimen will have been brought into full SMG spec with an SMG sized lower pin, no barrel restrictor ring, and an SMG spec front trunion.
Second best is Vector (which is a Group Industries RR with a South African parts kit and generally better specs) third best is a complete Group Industries RR - the Group guns have a lot of issues with out-of-spec receivers but that can be brought back by a few folks out there, specifically Richard @ BWE parts is the Uzi guru that can fix these things. Overall recommendation is to avoid a unfired/LNIB gun because if it has issues, you'll be the first to discover it. There are also registered bolt guns - so the SMG open bolt is the transferable part, and you can set it up for different UZI hosts if desired but typically you'll find these in an IMI semi carbine host, and these will have the blocking bars and typically have Semiauto spec parts aside from the bolt and FCG, which isn't a deal breaker but it makes support parts from SMG parts kits less useful and it's more expensive if something goes wrong, and it also prevents caliber conversions. I prefer to keep my UZI in 9mm but I have parts for .45, and it's a lot of fun to shoot overall. But it's a bitch to modernize at all and mounting optics, etc is dodgy.
Silencer HQ makes a wonderful adapter to run Silencerco cans from the UZI's barrel nut instead of needing a threaded barrel, and that'll be the next step for mine. I have a GI gun and there's a lot of little shit that doesn't really line up, but being a RR I used a genuine IMI parts kit from Apex to take care of most of the issues. The biggest thing is the trunion is somewhat out of spec so the gun only runs with the GI barrel, which has a much more generous throat going into the chamber vs SMG spec barrels. This can be fixed by the right guy for $$$$, but I'm fine for now. It gobbles up cheap steel case and loves it.

Reisings absolutely suck. Seriously, they suck. Terrible sights, slow ROF, they look stupid, they're absolutely the least cool WWII gun on the planet. Magazines are rare and finicky, and no matter what it's a cheap ass open bolt .45 that Soldiers and Marines universally despised - tens of thousands are reported to have been dumped overboard ships in the Pacific just to justify getting M3 Grease guns or Thompsons or literally anything else.

FNC's are awesome - but don't bother with an FNC sear that doesn't come with a host. It's a lot harder to find a semi FNC than you'd think and sometimes the weapon itself will be 3-4k due to demand from owners of registered sears that don't have a host. Support parts can be difficult to find, barrel replacements are a pain, but they run on just about anything and of course who doesn't love feeling like a reenactor of that shootout in Heat? But for the cost difference and support for the AR lower, I think the AR lower is the better buy for another ~$5k.

Thompsons - they're a lot of fun to shoot, tons more fun than a Reising and everyone recognizes them and it's a hit at the range. But it's impossible to modernize them and barrel replacements/support parts are expensive and rare. Mags are somewhat expensive but still available, and they eat just about any .45 that can go bang. If you're into WWII history over modern use, and just want a fun range princess that'll get lots of love and grins from other shooters at the range, they're pretty cool. But I agree that after you've dumped an L-drum, there's not much more to it, so as a regular shooter it wouldn't be anywhere near my first pick.

PPsH-41's are a shitload of fun to shoot. ~1200rpm cyclic rate and straight-up ejection means you can squirt out a burst of 10 rounds and the last round is fired before the first piece of brass hits the ground. Guaranteed shitload of fun on every range trip, and easily my favorite of all the WWII SMG's - but they're much like the Thompson in that parts can be scarce and expensive, there's little chance of modernization (the joes who FOB-fucked an EOtech onto a captured one nonwithstanding) but the real kicker is that the days of cheap 7.62x25 blasting ammo are long gone. Some folks have had success converting them to 9x19 with new barrels but that's pretty involved and the ROF reportedly goes down a bit, and finding an SOT FFL gunsmith that's willing to even attempt it can be difficult, from what I understand. If you get a chance to rent a post-sample PPsH-41, by all means do it! But it wouldn't be high on my list for another transferable.

Now, here's the not-so-obvious thing. MAC-10's and M-11's enjoy the widest support out there when it comes to transferables. In factory original form they're rowdy-fast cycling and uncontrollable, basically useless for anything beyond 30-round grins and maybe ventilating an elevator full of surprised Colonels or something. But the LAGE uppers for the MAC's are absolutely fucking wonderful and bring that gun into the 21st century with optics and accessory options, much better handling, a controllable ROF, and a bunch of other neat options such as running Suomi drums and other cool stuff like that. This is why MAC's are starting to get into the 8k range. If you're not going to spring for an AR lower, I'd get a MAC and budget for a LAGE upper that suits your fancy to match.

AC-556's are also coming down a bit in value because Ruger reputedly no longer works on them. However, there's a few operations that specialize in Mini-14 work that will rebarrel and otherwise maintain an AC-556 so if you find a good deal on an AC-556K it's not a bad call because good mags are still available, good aftermarket optic mounting options are available, and .22LR conversions exist that mostly work.

Bottom line though, overall, I'd go with a registered AR lower with a ~$20k budget.
With ~12-15k, AC556K
~8-12k, MAC with LAGE upper. I would consider the LAGE upper or a TASK slow fire upper absolutely mandatory to really enjoy the gun. Overall I prefer the MAC-10, ideally find one in .45 that's set up for grease gun mags, as it's relatively easy to caliber convert that to 9mm using STEN style magazines with an upper swap and magazine well insert, and of course set it up for a LAGE or whatever else.

I love my UZI but I wouldn't get one at the current market value.

CleverNickname
09-27-2018, 11:37 AM
While I'm not an expert by any means, I've owned a few machineguns and shot a few others over the years.

My main question for you would be "What do you want to do with the gun?" Bust dirt clods? Shoot competitions? WWII cosplay?

Of the guns you listed:

Uzi: great guns (a Vector/Group RR is currently the only machinegun I own) but unless you really want an Uzi for some reason, a Mac is better value. You can convert between calibers as long as you get a registered receiver.
Reising: boring to shoot, and you're stuck with .45 ACP.
FNC OK, but for a little more you can get a full-auto AR15 conversion which has no spare parts issues. For example, burn out an FNC barrel and you're fucked, replacements are difficult to impossible to find. You're also stuck with 5.56mm.
Thompson: I find thrm heavy and not as exciting as other guns, but if you're into WWII you may have different priorities. You're also stuck with .45 ACP.
PPSH-41: no real opinion on these (I've never shot one) but I will note you're pretty much stuck with 7.62 Tok.

If you just want a machinegun so you can shoot in full-auto and don't want a particular model for its history, then in my mind there's two options:

1. a Mac of some flavor
2. A Full-auto AR15 conversion

A factory Mac is a dumb buzzgun, but plop a Lage slowfire upper on it and it's a completely different gun. Lage is also making a mag-fed 5.56mm upper that IIRC uses AR15 barrels.

An M16 is a bit out of your price range, but as long as you don't care whether your gun has a pony on the side you can save a few k by getting an AR15 conversion. Parts are easy to find, caliber swaps are simple, and you can probably do a lot of gunsmithing on it yourself and not wait on some gunsmith halfway across the country who's one of three known-good gunsmiths who work on that model to work on your gun, like some other less-common guns. Sometimes I wish I still had mine.

Poconnor
09-27-2018, 02:34 PM
Swedish K or a S&W 76? I had a buddy with a Swedish K. He loved it

Dan_S
09-27-2018, 03:41 PM
Ok. So, MAC, Ac556, or...a Swedish K...


How do the Swedish Ks run, and how much....??

AC556. I like them - A-Team episodes come to mind.... I hadn’t really thought much about them due to Maintanence issues. What shops can work on them....?



I’m looking at a cool toy/investment, that I can play with occasionally. I have no real serious purpose for it, other than....I’ve wanted one for years, and....single...good job....bored.....:cool:


I won’t buy an M16 that isn’t a Colt, so....that eliminates that option due to price.

JRB
09-27-2018, 04:33 PM
Ok. So, MAC, Ac556, or...a Swedish K...


How do the Swedish Ks run, and how much....??

AC556. I like them - A-Team episodes come to mind.... I hadn’t really thought much about them due to Maintanence issues. What shops can work on them....?



I’m looking at a cool toy/investment, that I can play with occasionally. I have no real serious purpose for it, other than....I’ve wanted one for years, and....single...good job....bored.....:cool:


I won’t buy an M16 that isn’t a Colt, so....that eliminates that option due to price.

A friend of a friend had his AC556K rebarreled by Accuracy Systems one or two years back, which also does a lot of Mini-14 accurizing work too. They've got everything one needs to work on Mini-14 anything, apparently. The price was around $400 out the door for the new barrel installed, which isn't bad considering.

Swedish K's are cool and run well - basically a refined STEN with a pistol grip, folding stock, and a magazine that points the right way and is much easier to load.
But they have even less options for modernizing than the UZI and are less iconic, and magazines, etc are scarce. The UZI would be the clear winner for me in the price bracket as far as iconic, available support parts, and ease of maintenance/upkeep. Otherwise, get a MAC and LAGE combo IMHO.

When buying a lower for the 3rd hole and the Form 4, the difference is the finish color and the rollmark and nothing more. But if that stupid pony rollmark is worth $10k to you, so be it. It is rather easy to go original factory Colt on every other component in a transferable lower.

Dan_S
09-27-2018, 05:25 PM
Pony roll mark to me equates to easily being able to unload the thing down the road. Maybe I’m totally wrong, but I wouldn’t buy a semi-auto that wasn’t a Colt, why should I spend 20 tines the amount for...not a Colt. Shrug.
Just my OCD, I guess.


If I were just looking for a shooter, not caring about history or resale value, I’d go with a BRP tube gun, as I’ve gotten a fair bit of trigger time with one, and found it ran amazingly well.

fatdog
09-27-2018, 06:36 PM
If this is a range toy and "amusement park ride" like mine is, I would tell you the best buy is a MAC 11/9. They are the most populous transferrable in existence, and hence usually the lowest priced.

The factory upper is a POS and I put mine in a box 10 years ago and have never had it on the gun since.

Lage Manufacturing makes a wide variety of uppers ranging from .22LR to various 9mm variants, including some that use Suomi drums. He has an AR magazine fed upper in the works.

You can replace the factory useless wire stock with one of the Lage options and have a decent stock I also used his grip kit.

I was fortunate enough to buy one of the Alliance Armament 9mm Suomi uppers and their old Sabre11 5.56 upper which is essentially like a magazine fed M249 config. That company is gone now, but I think the new Lage 5.56 upper is going to be even better.

It is almost like buying an NFA AR lower, in that you are just buying the lower with the plan to put various uppers on the gun. All of this stuff is ATF approved and comes with approval letters for the various uppers, they can do it as long as the design remains open bolt.

I paid less than $3K for mine, which was over 10 years ago but I don't think the price has climbed much. For far less than $10K you can have the gun and a variety of calibers and uppers.

Nothing you would want to carry into combat but for full auto entertainment this approach holds its own with all the options that cost 2-10X more....

Dan_S
09-27-2018, 07:17 PM
Good info. Thanks to all that have replied.


I guess, based upon what I have to work with, and what I was...hoping...to get for that money, I’m proabnly going to hold off.


Probably keep putting money away over the winter if al goes well, and then...by that time....I’ll priobably end up with an airplane, instead. Just can’t justify spending as much on what will clearly be a toy, with NO use outside of a bit of fun at the range.

Maybe if prices ever drop....

okie john
09-27-2018, 08:51 PM
And I thought my gun habit was expensive... you guys take it to another level.


Okie John

JR1572
09-27-2018, 09:00 PM
I have a Colt m16 and an ac556. Both are fun toys to play with, especially the ac556 with the .22 conversion kit.

Dan_S
09-27-2018, 09:10 PM
I have a Colt m16 and an ac556. Both are fun toys to play with, especially the ac556 with the .22 conversion kit.

That sounds really fun!

What conversion kit are you using?

Any issues with the rifle, and any suggestions on parts/smithing options?

JR1572
09-27-2018, 09:14 PM
That sounds really fun!

What conversion kit are you using?

Any issues with the rifle, and any suggestions on parts/smithing options?

I’m using a Ciener conversion kit. I’ve had no problems getting parts for the kits from JAC.

The rifle itself is fine. No problems whatsoever. The only thing I’ve done was had the rear portion of the flash hider milled down a little bit to accept my HALO suppressor.

As far as parts options, I’m learning in this thread too.

Both of my MG’s have been sidelined because my free range time has been limited and I spend all of my range time shooting pistols keeping my skills sharp.

JRB
09-27-2018, 11:21 PM
Pony roll mark to me equates to easily being able to unload the thing down the road. Maybe I’m totally wrong, but I wouldn’t buy a semi-auto that wasn’t a Colt, why should I spend 20 tines the amount for...not a Colt. Shrug.
Just my OCD, I guess.


If I were just looking for a shooter, not caring about history or resale value, I’d go with a BRP tube gun, as I’ve gotten a fair bit of trigger time with one, and found it ran amazingly well.

To be fair, we're talking about a ~$90 forging with an extra hole in it that costs $20k+ due to arbitrary and pretty nonsensical laws about the funny papers it comes with. I've yet to see someone make less than 15% profit when selling a transferable AR lower regardless of make - let alone sit on it.
I don't see the powers that be curbing the FOPA of '86 anytime soon, so it's a pretty safe investment. As such, I'd encourage you to approach transferables with a very different attitude than simply sneering down at some PSA build on an Anderson lower.




I paid less than $3K for mine, which was over 10 years ago but I don't think the price has climbed much. For far less than $10K you can have the gun and a variety of calibers and uppers..

The price on M11/9's have more than doubled from what you paid. Bottom shelf run-hard no box one magazine sort of MAC's are in the $6-6500 range with NIB Powder Springs M10/45's and such going above 8k. Complete with a LAGE or similar uppers and a bunch of magazines, I've seen packages go above 10k.

Yes, it's insane.

Dan_S
09-27-2018, 11:53 PM
JRB

Fair enough.


Let me ask this then - I’ve heard all sorts of horror stories of out of spec Olympic/non-colt lowers.


How do you drop 20k+ on a lower sight unseen....and be sure it’s dexent?

Paul D
09-28-2018, 01:08 AM
Registered drop in auto sear (RDIAS) > Registered Colt M16 rifle/receiver > Conversion receivers >>>>>H&K sear packs($$$$!!!)

The M16 is the most versatile full auto platform. You make a belt feed MG (Fightlite); various length and caliber rifles; or a submachine gun with a 9mm mag well conversion and upper.

I rarely shoot my MGs anymore. I break them out to entertain guests or visiting family members. Burning through ammo is not as intellectually rewarding as shooting my pistols.

This may sound sick but part of me hope the 1986 ban never goes away cuz all my investments would be worth shit. That's a lot of money to lose for Freedom! :rolleyes:

wrmettler
09-28-2018, 10:09 AM
Here is a website showing the prices for NFA weapons.
I don't know if the prices are accurate.

http://machinegunpriceguide.com/html/machine_guns.html

JRB
09-28-2018, 01:06 PM
JRB

Fair enough.


Let me ask this then - I’ve heard all sorts of horror stories of out of spec Olympic/non-colt lowers.


How do you drop 20k+ on a lower sight unseen....and be sure it’s dexent?

Colts aside, I've worked on two Sendras and a Franklin, and one Oly. The Oly was my least favorite but it didn't have any spec issues that weren't fixed by an accuwedge. They needed 'working on' mostly because of 10-11in barrels on DI gas with light buffers, so that's an easy parts swap. The Oly had an A2 3rd burst group in it and I swapped it to an A1 Semi/Full group and I didn't have any issues. The mag well on the Oly was a bit tight, but I didn't notice anything else that was wildly out of spec - but I didn't check everything with a caliper, either. I've never seen a transferable AR that had a lower-spec induced malfunction or issue. I have been told, but have never verified, that back in those days the only place making AR lower forgings was making them for Colt as well, which is why most of them were pretty close in spec.

If one just can't abide some GI-style slop between the upper and lower, the best bet is to bring the lower with you to a vendor and test-fit a variety of uppers until you find 'the one' (or several) that fit with no slop just build your own from there. Alternatively, buy a TDP Colt upper, accuwedge as needed, and run as desired with a Colt FCG and correct buffer & spring for that Colt upper.
If you're seeking KAC-levels of fit and finish, you won't find it on pre-86 Colts for the most part, either. Some are tighter than others but with all the other TDP parts readily available (uppers etc) the only significant difference are the markings.

Nonetheless, as far as legal giggle-switch stuff is concerned, an out-of-spec but legal AR lower gives you a LOT of options that are basically unmatched by any other transferable. An HK sear pack is really the only possible competition and obviously it's significantly more expensive.



....This may sound sick but part of me hope the 1986 ban never goes away cuz all my investments would be worth shit. That's a lot of money to lose for Freedom! :rolleyes:


Governor Thomas Nelson, a signatory of the Declaration of Independence and Commander of the Virginia Military not only financed a hell of a lot of the Virginia Military out of his own pocket for the Revolutionary War, but from 1779-1780 he took out loans from sympathizers who wouldn't loan the money to the Continental Congress for the war effort, but would loan it to him. He eventually paid off all of those debts with his own money.
During the battle of Yorktown in 1781, British troops seized Governor Nelson's own mansion. His troops avoided firing on the mansion at first, even though they knew the higher British leadership including Lord Cornwallis were headquartered there. When he discovered that, he directed his men to fire on his own mansion and is rumored to have offered a reward to the first man that hit it. Two higher ranking British officers were rumored to have died sitting at his own dining table when a cannon round came through the roof and exploded in the dining room.

General Washington would accept the surrender of Lord Cornwallis and the British troops a few weeks thereafter. Stories like Governor Nelson's aren't all that uncommon - many wealthy men that had every reason to back the British and stay rich and powerful instead chose freedom and many lost their fortunes and their lives in the process. Washington's Immortals are buried ignominiously under some garage or parking lot in Brooklyn now despite having likely saved the early days of the Revolutionary War, and many of them were wealthy and came from wealthy families.

This may make me sound like an asshole, but if you're more worried about losing some tens of thousands of dollars than you are worried about the ever-tightening noose of bullshit around our Constitutional rights, perhaps you should sell them while the selling is good. Especially if they're not much more to you than expensive party favors to entertain friends and guests.

As the owner of transferables, I'd be delighted if my ~$14k UZI was a $400 range toy tomorrow. I'd see it as a small price to pay for genuine progress.

Paul D
09-28-2018, 07:49 PM
JRB

In retrospect, it probably be well worth it to lose it all. However, realistically I will probably never have to worry about it happening in my lifetime no matter how much money I give to politicians, lobbyists and organizations.

To the OP, I would save more to get the THE gun you really want if you can.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Dan_S
09-28-2018, 08:02 PM
JRB

In retrospect, it probably be well worth it to lose it all. However, realistically I will probably never have to worry about it happening in my lifetime no matter how much money I give to politicians, lobbyists and organizations.

To the OP, I would save more to get the THE gun you really want if you can.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk



After seeing thensuggestions here. that’s what I’m leaning toward. Seems like any purchase I try to make on the budget I was willing/able to allocate, is going to be a compromise.

I’m thinking that in the world of toys, the Kitfox (airplane) next year is probably a more worthwhile pursuit....

RevolverRob
10-01-2018, 06:53 PM
The Mac 11/9 with a Lage upper would be my choice. One of my favorite shooting sub-guns.

My other choice (and the one I'd start with, if I were buying tomorrow) is a Sterling. Great gun, extremely reliable, super easy to shoot. Not super "modernizable" but still a really great gun.

When I finally settle in a place and start buying full autos, my three will be a Lage-equipped Mac, a Sterling, and a M712 Schnellfeuer.

JRB
10-02-2018, 12:30 PM
The Mac 11/9 with a Lage upper would be my choice. One of my favorite shooting sub-guns.

My other choice (and the one I'd start with, if I were buying tomorrow) is a Sterling. Great gun, extremely reliable, super easy to shoot. Not super "modernizable" but still a really great gun.

When I finally settle in a place and start buying full autos, my three will be a Lage-equipped Mac, a Sterling, and a M712 Schnellfeuer.

Not all transferable Sterlings were created equal - a substantial number of them were built & registered as mixmaster guns using some STEN and some Sterling parts, frequently in STEN tubes (CATCO, etc). Such guns are sometimes called 'Stenlings'. Some run well, some don't. The ones that don't are frequently the ones found for sale, particularly at competitive pricing.
There was a wave of Sterling SMG parts kits a few years back and many of the Stenlings were brought into full Sterling-SMG spec with those parts. But a few weird 80's/90's frankenguns linger in people's safes.

If you're considering a Sterling, ensure that it runs well on Sterling magazines and is not ammo sensitive, and was built with 100% Sterling parts on whatever registered tube it may have. If possible, get video of the weapon doing a couple of consecutive mag dumps on cheap ammo before committing to buy.

There are only a few original M712's on the registry - even the FA conversions to C96's bring big $$$$$.

RevolverRob
10-02-2018, 02:30 PM
Not all transferable Sterlings were created equal - a substantial number of them were built & registered as mixmaster guns using some STEN and some Sterling parts, frequently in STEN tubes (CATCO, etc). Such guns are sometimes called 'Stenlings'. Some run well, some don't. The ones that don't are frequently the ones found for sale, particularly at competitive pricing.
There was a wave of Sterling SMG parts kits a few years back and many of the Stenlings were brought into full Sterling-SMG spec with those parts. But a few weird 80's/90's frankenguns linger in people's safes.

If you're considering a Sterling, ensure that it runs well on Sterling magazines and is not ammo sensitive, and was built with 100% Sterling parts on whatever registered tube it may have. If possible, get video of the weapon doing a couple of consecutive mag dumps on cheap ammo before committing to buy.

There are only a few original M712's on the registry - even the FA conversions to C96's bring big $$$$$.

Absolutely on both points. A very good friend of mine is a big NFA collector. Anything I wanted to buy, I'd have him inspect. He's been collecting machine guns for about 25 years now and is pretty well versed in what is good and bad. Which I suppose brings up a valid point, if you're looking for your first full-auto piece, finding a buddy or a trusted individual to inspect the gun you want to buy is a good idea if possible.

Dan_S
10-03-2018, 12:50 AM
Not really having much in the way of people to check stuff out for me, I’m definitely leaning away from dropping that kind of coin at this point...I guess that’s exacerbated by not really knowing get what I want (at least, within my budget - I’d like an m-16 set up in a Car-15 configuration).


Looking like the plane is a better long term plan - have fun assembling the kit, and build hours less expensively than renting, plus, I could do some backcountry camping, and add floats in the future....


Ah, the tortures lf having expensive interests....

JRB
10-03-2018, 10:46 AM
Not really having much in the way of people to check stuff out for me, I’m definitely leaning away from dropping that kind of coin at this point...I guess that’s exacerbated by not really knowing get what I want (at least, within my budget - I’d like an m-16 set up in a Car-15 configuration).


Looking like the plane is a better long term plan - have fun assembling the kit, and build hours less expensively than renting, plus, I could do some backcountry camping, and add floats in the future....


Ah, the tortures lf having expensive interests....

Get the plane. Machine guns are a lot of fun, but they're a one-trick pony.

Joe in PNG
10-03-2018, 07:21 PM
Get the plane. Machine guns are a lot of fun, but they're a one-trick pony.
Or, you could do this:
-Find a range that rents machineguns
-Buy a case of ammo
-Shoot it all

That would probably scratch the machinegun itch without paying tens of thousands of dollars.

Lester Polfus
10-03-2018, 09:51 PM
Or, you could do this:
-Find a range that rents machineguns
-Buy a case of ammo
-Shoot it all

That would probably scratch the machinegun itch without paying tens of thousands of dollars.

So I've hesitated to comment on this thread, as I don't own any NFA items, and never have.

However, the reason I DON'T own any NFA items is that of exactly what Joe in PNG just said. I did get to play with some full auto toys while working for my Rich Uncle, and in later, civilian life had a period where I could have financially swung a FA gun. During that period, I rented a couple of times, and got to shoot friends FA guns a few more and was reminded that the new kinda wears off pretty quick.

Buying a full auto firearm is a giant pain in the ass. I would suggest that before you drop that kind of money, that you find a way to rent or otherwise get trigger time on the exact thing you want to buy, and then you'll have a pretty good idea of whether the juice is worth the squeeze.

The first few mags through an MP5/Thomspons/Whatever are pretty cool. After that there's a point of diminishing returns, IMO.

Paul D
10-03-2018, 11:16 PM
Oh, an airplane is the other option? Hell yeah, dump the gun and get the plane. My buddy has a Cirrus SR22. It is nice! It has a turbo, touchscreen controls, luxury car-like leather seats, and AC. I think it even has airbags and its own parachute! If you think a MG is a money suck (convert money into smoke/noise); a plane is a black hole. Just hearing about costs for hanger, maintenance, fuel, licensing, etc made me a little queasy....but it is so fucking cool.

Joe in PNG
10-03-2018, 11:19 PM
So I've hesitated to comment on this thread, as I don't own any NFA items, and never have.

However, the reason I DON'T own any NFA items is that of exactly what Joe in PNG just said. I did get to play with some full auto toys while working for my Rich Uncle, and in later, civilian life had a period where I could have financially swung a FA gun. During that period, I rented a couple of times, and got to shoot friends FA guns a few more and was reminded that the new kinda wears off pretty quick.

Buying a full auto firearm is a giant pain in the ass. I would suggest that before you drop that kind of money, that you find a way to rent or otherwise get trigger time on the exact thing you want to buy, and then you'll have a pretty good idea of whether the juice is worth the squeeze.

The first few mags through an MP5/Thomspons/Whatever are pretty cool. After that there's a point of diminishing returns, IMO.

I put a half a case of Wolff through a Glock 18 some years back. Pretty much cured me of the full auto bug.
Would I shoot a machine gun again? Sure, but I'm not going to seek one out and spend my own money to do so.

Dan_S
10-03-2018, 11:34 PM
Or, you could do this:
-Find a range that rents machineguns
-Buy a case of ammo
-Shoot it all

That would probably scratch the machinegun itch without paying tens of thousands of dollars.


I’ve had the chance to have fired a variety of full autos.

AK, Galil, MP5, M16, Thompson, BAR... I can make a call and go play with a BRP.


But, I’ve been less and less interested in semi-autos, and more interested in bolt guns.

Anyway.....

We’ll see...

Dan_S
10-03-2018, 11:42 PM
Oh, an airplane is the other option? Hell yeah, dump the gun and get the plane. My buddy has a Cirrus SR22. It is nice! It has a turbo, touchscreen controls, luxury car-like leather seats, and AC. I think it even has airbags and its own parachute! If you think a MG is a money suck (convert money into smoke/noise); a plane is a black hole. Just hearing about costs for hanger, maintenance, fuel, licensing, etc made me a little queasy....but it is so fucking cool.


A plane may be a black hole, but I can *fly* in said black hole. :cool:

I haven’t flown in almost six years due to various things. My ex-girlfriend and I recently reestablished contact - she’s doing pretty well for herself in the aviation world (which she got into, in part due to me). Kinda motivates me to try to get back into that world.

And, with an experimental...? It’s not that expensive... I mean, the initial cost/time investment is pretty steep, BUT, maintain cost is minimal. And with the Kitfox, it’s a whole lot easier to store due to folding wings, which translates to substantially lesser hanger fees...and STOL capability... :D

Paul D
10-03-2018, 11:59 PM
A plane may be a black hole, but I can *fly* in said black hole. :cool:

I haven’t flown in almost six years due to various things. My ex-girlfriend and I recently reestablished contact - she’s doing pretty well for herself in the aviation world (which she got into, in part due to me). Kinda motivates me to try to get back into that world.

And, with an experimental...? It’s not that expensive... I mean, the initial cost/time investment is pretty steep, BUT, maintain cost is minimal. And with the Kitfox, it’s a whole lot easier to store due to folding wings, which translates to substantially lesser hanger fees...and STOL capability... :D

I think you've got your answer: you have the passion, knowledge, financial means/grasp and an airplane is way more practical than a MG. So what are you waiting for?

https://goo.gl/images/PpcFNLhttps://media.giphy.com/media/BHKpXZnLkYFYk/giphy.gif

Dan_S
10-04-2018, 12:05 AM
I don’t quite have the cash to drop yet - it’ll take another six/eight months I think to get there, if all goes well.


Having said that, it’s a goal to work for.

30935


And looking at that photo, that’s a lot more ‘me’ than an MG.... :p

Lester Polfus
10-04-2018, 11:11 AM
Is it legal to mount a machinegun on a plane?

Because if so, that opens up a whole 'nother realm of cool...

Dan_S
10-04-2018, 01:42 PM
I don’t know of any regulation that would prohibit one from doing so, other than simply limiting what fields you could land at.

CleverNickname
10-04-2018, 07:32 PM
Is it legal to mount a machinegun on a plane?

Because if so, that opens up a whole 'nother realm of cool...

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Mike Dillon did this with one of his personal planes, and used it to strafe targets on land he owned in Arizona. But it took a lot of work to get the proper FAA signoffs for exemptions to do so.

Joe in PNG
10-04-2018, 08:54 PM
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Mike Dillon did this with one of his personal planes, and used it to strafe targets on land he owned in Arizona. But it took a lot of work to get the proper FAA signoffs for exemptions to do so.

Door mounted in a heli, if I remember from a few yootoobs.