Any departments issuing/allowing flip up magnifiers on patrol rifles?

[BehindBlueI's]

We aren't allowed any magnification, other than SWAT snipers. I was in a situation recently where magnification would have been a huge help. I've generally been one of the "for what we do we don't need..." bandwagon guys, but yesterday showed me I was wrong. Normally we don't, abnormal things happen and we have to deal with it.

So I'd like anyone who has an SOP/directive on their use to PM me if they don't mind. Also any feedback on the pro's and con's of the flip-up style, what to look for, etc.

[TGS]

Yes, Aimpoint 3x, but there is no SOP/directive other than they're on a matrix of what we're allowed to hang on our Mk18s.

ETA: Just double checked the list and it's listed for our tactical team only.

I've seen individuals assigned to our field offices with them, so I'm not sure if there are exceptions granted or they're just saying, "Fuck the policy, it doesn't make sense" and rolling with them regardless.

[Erick Gelhaus]

We do, I've been using one for many years.

I use Aimpoint's original 3x in a Larue flip up mount. There is a mixture of those, EOTechs, and I imagine another company's offering that I haven't seen since I don't normally work the patrol rifle quals.

We cover their use under the same modification language for everything - approved by the program manager/supervisor with armorer's recommendation. As a general rule, it is for use beyond 50yds. However, it could well used much closer depending on the situation.

A LVPO could make more sense if your racks will support their use. Our don't and I'm not willing to keep it in the back of the SUV, so I go with the 3x.

[ST911]

We cover their use under the same modification language for everything - approved by the program manager/supervisor with armorer's recommendation.

This, magnifiers and LPVOs.

[UNM1136]

We permit it, I am waiting to have the cash to do it. One of the guys is running a leupy 1-4 and is happy with it. The newest Leupold 1-8 would be super cool, if I win the lottery and can find the $4k.. I would almost rather see these than issued cans, and I would rather see more patrol units than either, but it liiks like we will be issued cans next year.

Our SOP is really simple (it needed to be....I was one of the signing folks before the chef approved it). I will see if I can PM it from work tonight.

pat

[MI Law]

We allow them and there is no policy on them other than you need to qualify with it before you carry it. The qualification course is the same course as normal and the officer decides when to use it during the course.

[BehindBlueI's]

For those that allow it, if you are allowed, can you PM me your "approved optics" or whatever list, etc. My department has been shooting this down for 5 years or so, so the more I have the better.

[Beat Trash]

No. We're being told that any magnification, to include a flip up 3x magnifier would mandate shooting a snipers qualification and not the patrol rifle qualification. We're being told that is per our state's regulating body (OPOTA).

SWAT is somehow exempt though.

[BehindBlueI's]

No. We're being told that any magnification, to include a flip up 3x magnifier would mandate shooting a snipers qualification and not the patrol rifle qualification. We're being told that is per our state's regulating body (OPOTA).

SWAT is somehow exempt though.

Interesting.

[BobM]

No. We're being told that any magnification, to include a flip up 3x magnifier would mandate shooting a snipers qualification and not the patrol rifle qualification. We're being told that is per our state's regulating body (OPOTA).

SWAT is somehow exempt though.

I emailed OPOTA about that a few years ago. The reply was that they had no idea how that got started and they had no position on the issue.

[lwt16]

No optics on patrol rifles period here.

Regards.

[SamueL]

We are not issued magnifiers but are authorized to use them on personal rifles provided they do not exceed 4x. Department patrol rifles are equipped with Aimpoint Comp M3s or PROs with no magnifier. There are a few authorized LPVs and a plethora of red dots.

I'll send you more in a PM.

[Beat Trash]

Interesting, thanks

[fwrun]

My department allows the use of magnified optics provided they use a QD and the rifle is also equipped with irons. Lots of guys talk about wanting a magnifier, but out of the few hundred rifles in the field, I can’t think of anyone that uses one. I’m one of a couple that uses a LPVO. Everyone else is irons or RDS.

[Coyotesfan97]

We’ve authorized some variable power scopes (1x4 and 1x6) for patrol. I need to look at one set up to see how the iron sights are mounted. I’ve seen an Aimpoint magnifier on a SWAT rifle but I’m not sure if they’re authorized for patrol.

ETA Aimpoints and Trijicon MROs are authorized red dots.

[secondstoryguy]

We can have magifiers (LPVs are approved case by case) as long as they are below 5x(anything over 5x is considered a precision rifle and needs a precision rifle qual here in TX). Aside from weight I see no real downsides to it and it definitely adds to the capabilities of the average patrol guy.

[Hdmotorcop]

No optics on patrol rifles period here.

Regards.


Yeah, that's the answer I got. When I asked why (aging eyes and all...), was no, period. No discussion.

[Erick Gelhaus]

For those in agencies with "No Optics" policies or stances, what is being done about it? Are your employee associations taking it on? If not, why not? It is a workplace / officer safety issue and a public safety issue.

There are plenty of agencies with issued or personally owned weapons programs that allow optics, even some really big west coast agencies. So the liability card should not apply.

Quality optics have proven to hold up in general Mil usage (never mind the cool kids) over the last seventeen years now. Seventeen. That ought to shoot down the reliability claim.

I realize I have a different perspective on it as we have had patrol rifles since '93, we started using Aimpoints & Trij reflex sights in '99, and Uncle Scotty supplied info getting us into low variable power optics back in '03. We're 250 full time cops.

[KeeFus]

Our PD issued rifles can only have PD issued equipment on them. At the time the policy came out I had my personal Comp M5 and other things like a light on my PD issued rifle. After debating the issue for about 2 days I gave back my rifle and brought my own (the new policy allowed for personal rifles and shotguns). My Captains comment when I returned it was “you don’t need a red-dot...”. It has taken me 26 years to learn to pick my battles and this one wasn’t going to be won.

Since taking over as Training Coordinator in January I have added lights and Larue A2 rear sights (we were using Magpul BUIS as a permanent sight) to each PD issued rifle. I don’t see my Chief buying dozens of Aimpoint PROs but I’m going to request some in next years budget. It’ll probably be easier to get a few at a time.

If you participate in our personal weapon program you can put a number of optics on them as well as a LVPO up to 6X. Magnifiers aren’t specifically mentioned either way but by allowing LVPO’S I’d say you can use them. Grizzly and I are the armorers and that part of policy, which we wrote and submitted to the chief for approval, dictates we sign off on it and unless it’s some POS it’d likely get signed off on.

[lwt16]

For those in agencies with "No Optics" policies or stances, what is being done about it? Are your employee associations taking it on? If not, why not? It is a workplace / officer safety issue and a public safety issue.



Nothing is being done about it.

It's a combination of an administration that fails to see the benefit of optics, the expense of decking out rifles with something suitable/expensive, and a hope for the best mentality.

Then there is the training issue of teaching troops how to run a rifle with optics.

In admin's defense, we barely have enough staff to handle the calls so pulling folks off the streets to teach them how to use optics is going to be quite the challenge if they ever do decide to purchase them........and they may be looking into it for all I know. I'm not privy to such things. Our current admin has purchased needed equipment lately so maybe it's on the shopping list for the future.

We have officers that don't know to flip up their rear (some rifles here also have the MBUS rears as primary sights), officers that use the protective wings of the front post as their aiming point, etc. A dot optic would eliminate all of that if they were the type to stay on continuously and be rugged enough for patrol to abuse.

I also know when to pick my battles and I can run a rifle without an optic so it's not a battle for me. There is plenty I could whine about but admin has their reasons. If I wanted to "change" things I'd have taken the Sgt test years ago and worked my way up.

But to heck with that. I'd rather be on the streets getting my hands dirty. If I wanted an office gig, I'd have went into business or something else in the public sector making double what I starve on now.

Regards.

[KeeFus]

Nothing is being done about it.

It's a combination of an administration that fails to see the benefit of optics, the expense of decking out rifles with something suitable/expensive, and a hope for the best mentality.

Then there is the training issue of teaching troops how to run a rifle with optics.

In admin's defense, we barely have enough staff to handle the calls so pulling folks off the streets to teach them how to use optics is going to be quite the challenge if they ever do decide to purchase them........and they may be looking into it for all I know. I'm not privy to such things. Our current admin has purchased needed equipment lately so maybe it's on the shopping list for the future.

We have officers that don't know to flip up their rear (some rifles here also have the MBUS rears as primary sights), officers that use the protective wings of the front post as their aiming point, etc. A dot optic would eliminate all of that if they were the type to stay on continuously and be rugged enough for patrol to abuse.

I also know when to pick my battles and I can run a rifle without an optic so it's not a battle for me. There is plenty I could whine about but admin has their reasons. If I wanted to "change" things I'd have taken the Sgt test years ago and worked my way up.

But to heck with that. I'd rather be on the streets getting my hands dirty. If I wanted an office gig, I'd have went into business or something else in the public sector making double what I starve on now.

Regards.

I have seen it time and again officers get out their rifle and simply forget to flip up their rear sight. They do it during qualifications as well, read: no stress. Imagine them getting into some real stress. Lord. I’m glad we replaced them.

And being a Sgt doesn’t guarantee you can change things. Changing someone in administrations mind who has been riding a desk for a few years, especially when their mindset is “I’ve done my time in patrol and on nights” is damn near impossible.

[lwt16]

I have seen it time and again officers get out their rifle and simply forget to flip up their rear sight. They do it during qualifications as well, read: no stress..


We went through a phase of buying different rifles (aka, budget rifles) and then buying more budget rifles due to the aforementioned budget rifles failing miserably.

Some had flip ups....some didn't.....and there were no training classes in between all this swap shop/yard sale rifle changing going on. There was simply a 50 round qual and a thumbs up....go forth and serve mentality.

They recently decided....after seeing multiple cops fail to utilize the flip up rears......that maybe there ought to be some training associated with turning loose cops with rifles. So we recently had a 250 round inservice on how to run a rifle.

Decent class with more familiarization than muscle memory learning going on. But it's better than nothing. It was a real snooze fest for me but, hey...free ammo and a day of not answering calls.

Regards.

[Hambo]

For those in agencies with "No Optics" policies or stances, what is being done about it? Are your employee associations taking it on? If not, why not? It is a workplace / officer safety issue and a public safety issue.

There are plenty of agencies with issued or personally owned weapons programs that allow optics, even some really big west coast agencies. So the liability card should not apply.


You know the drill. You fight for what you know you can win, then for what you need the most, then for everything else. In a lot of departments rifle optics are in the 'everything else' category because there are critical things then need to address ahead of that. If a department has a guy like Keefus in the right spot, sometimes you can what you want a little at a time.

[psalms144.1]

Hell - not only are we not allowed magnifiers, as of our new policy dated Thu this week, we're not allow optics of ANY KIND...

[TGS]

Hell - not only are we not allowed magnifiers, as of our new policy dated Thu this week, we're not allow optics of ANY KIND...

lol wut

Do tell...

[KeeFus]

You know the drill. You fight for what you know you can win, then for what you need the most, then for everything else. In a lot of departments rifle optics are in the 'everything else' category because there are critical things then need to address ahead of that. If a department has a guy like Keefus in the right spot, sometimes you can what you want a little at a time.

Took me 26 years...24 in Patrol with TDY’s in vice/narcotics and 2 years in traffic. If we hadn’t installed a new Chief, who was a firearms instructor and a former 11 Bang-Bang, I doubt what he has allowed to change would have changed at all. My 2019/2020 budget requests are...robust...to say the least.

Thankfully he likes to give former .mil guys shit about being POG’s. The fact that I was an MP makes the shit talking better (or worse...). The shenanigans go both ways.

[60167]

We are allowed LVPO's. Our patrol rifle program involves personally purchased rifles and optics. We are limited to 1-4 optics, although I haven't seen ANY non-red dot optic actually fielded thus far. I doubt there are many officers on my dept who are willing to spend the money on a quality LVPO.

That said, our patrol rifles get used most frequently as tools for perimeter officers on barricaded subjects. It makes a lot of sense for us to use magnified optics of some kind...

[psalms144.1]

lol wut

Do tell...Dude - I got nuthin. At least we finally approved personally owned long guns, but, of course, mandated that they be "MILSPEC" WTF that means. Now I have about 12 guys e-mailing me every day to ask if their rifle is "MILSPEC" or not. How the hell do I know?

I can GUESS that DPMS and Bushmaster won't be considered MILSPEC, likewise anything put together on a home work bench from parts kits. But, who am I to know for sure?

Of course, the decision on what's "duty worthy" is left up to field FIs, with no other guidance than must be "MILSPEC," and can't have any accessories/changes except light, sling, and grips...

[KeeFus]

Dude - I got nuthin. At least we finally approved personally owned long guns, but, of course, mandated that they be "MILSPEC" WTF that means. Now I have about 12 guys e-mailing me every day to ask if their rifle is "MILSPEC" or not. How the hell do I know?

I can GUESS that DPMS and Bushmaster won't be considered MILSPEC, likewise anything put together on a home work bench from parts kits. But, who am I to know for sure?

Of course, the decision on what's "duty worthy" is left up to field FIs, with no other guidance than must be "MILSPEC," and can't have any accessories/changes except light, sling, and grips...

Our policy on personal weapons simply states it has to be a production gun, uppers and lowers from same manufacturer, and pass armorers inspection. It also mandates metal sights & a two-point sling. If you use an optic it has to come from the provided list of manufacturers. If the optic isn’t on the list it may still be approved by the armorer and it’s subject to yearly inspection. Minimum of 3-30 round magazines with which we supply the ammo (Fed LE223T1).

[UNM1136]

Dude - I got nuthin. At least we finally approved personally owned long guns, but, of course, mandated that they be "MILSPEC" WTF that means. Now I have about 12 guys e-mailing me every day to ask if their rifle is "MILSPEC" or not. How the hell do I know?

I can GUESS that DPMS and Bushmaster won't be considered MILSPEC, likewise anything put together on a home work bench from parts kits. But, who am I to know for sure?

Of course, the decision on what's "duty worthy" is left up to field FIs, with no other guidance than must be "MILSPEC," and can't have any accessories/changes except light, sling, and grips...

At my last armorer's course, Ken Elmore made a point that MILSPEC simply means MILitary SPECification. The is a mil spec for boots, and aglets, and for dishwashing liquid. Without mentioning WHICH milspec, by designator, the term MILSPEC is useless. Hell, AFAIK there is no milspec for an AR-15, and the spec for an M4 requires burst fire, or an M4A1 requires full auto.

That said, I feel your pain in reference to the powers that be not understanding MILSPEC while demanding it; it is rather maddening.

pat

[Coyotesfan97]

I just put a Burris MTAC 1x4 scope on my patrol rifle. It has the illuminated Ballistic CQ reticle in it. The Burris 1.5x6 is also approved along with some of the Vortex scopes.

My rear iron sights are off the rifle now. My older eyes really like this system.

[jlw]

I allow them, and I have whatever magnifier karmapolice sent me the link to from LaRue. That's our SOP on the matter. You can print this post.

[Chuck Whitlock]

We can have magifiers (LPVs are approved case by case) as long as they are below 5x(anything over 5x is considered a precision rifle and needs a precision rifle qual here in TX). Aside from weight I see no real downsides to it and it definitely adds to the capabilities of the average patrol guy.


The above regarding over/under 5x is per TCOLE regulations.

Most weapons at my agency are personally owned, except for the team guys. Issued shotguns are cheap 870 Expess, which we cannot modify, so I qualify with my personal one. No regulations on optics other than above.

[John Hearne]

We have a list of approved accessories. The Aimpoint 3x is on there. The 6x isn't but I suspect that reflects a lag in list updates.

[BlueDog2009]

We don't have a policy on it, yet. But I think I'm in the same area as you, BehindBlueIs. Our new firearms instructor doesn't like any sort of magnifier on our rifles even though we work areas with over 100 yards of open ground and long hallways... We were assisting on a perimeter one night and I would have loved to have one. It's on the list for my purchase. I think it's idiotic to not allow them. Target ID and more precision. We qual out to 100 yards for the patrol rifle course. That' s a distance that is hard to properly ID a target without a LPVO or magnifier.

[Coyotesfan97]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181025/649d8876a9ce3e9f581735582339d761.jpg

My new setup.


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[Chuck Whitlock]

I just put a Burris MTAC 1x4 scope on my patrol rifle. It has the illuminated Ballistic CQ reticle in it. The Burris 1.5x6 is also approved along with some of the Vortex scopes.

My rear iron sights are off the rifle now. My older eyes really like this system.

I've thought of using a 1-4X MTAC on my AR, and a 1.5-6X on a .308 bolt gun with the same reticle.

[cmbarny2]

We allow them, we also allow LPVOs. Our only requirement if we run any optic is having flip up or fixed irons on the gun and we have to qual with both irons and the optic setup. Not sure if anyone is running one though. I know we have one Elcan, and one guy running a burris LPVO that has had previous issues holding zero in the past. I'll be switching to my Vortex Razor come next day I can qual on it but am currently running a Aimpoint PRO.

[BJJ]

We allow them, we also allow LPVOs. Our only requirement if we run any optic is having flip up or fixed irons on the gun and we have to qual with both irons and the optic setup. Not sure if anyone is running one though. I know we have one Elcan, and one guy running a burris LPVO that has had previous issues holding zero in the past. I'll be switching to my Vortex Razor come next day I can qual on it but am currently running a Aimpoint PRO.

I feel like the Razor could be one of the better solutions to this issue. How do you like it compared to aimpoint with or without a magnifier?

[cmbarny2]

I feel like the Razor could be one of the better solutions to this issue. How do you like it compared to aimpoint with or without a magnifier?

The Razor-E is just about the be all end all optic for me except for weight and to get the same quality and brightness at less weight you have to go up to a Kahles IMO.

Razor-E = 21oz plus mount (average around 8oz)
Kahles K16i = 17oz plus mount
Aimpoint Pro 11.6oz + 3x Magnifier (7.1oz plus mount)

So the Razor ends up being about 4oz heavier which isn't a lot but enough to tell a balance difference IMO.

That being said I'll take the very slight balance difference compared to a dot/magnifier and gain the extra magnification and being able to go anywhere between 1-6x instead of being limited to 1x OR 3x. On a short gun I'd argue its probably worth it to spend a little extra for a Kahles and save the weight but that's just me and I know plenty run the Razor just fine on all lengths of guns with any number of other accessories. I also jumped on board with a high (1.93") mount for my razor and I have to say I prefer that even without running a laser. I find its much comfier in a regular day of shooting but also find it helps when running the AR while wearing an external vest carrier as well.

[SamueL]

I started to delve a little deeper into the LPVO realm, changing from theorticial to applied.

The 1-4x offerings of the Burris MTAC, Vortex Crossfire, Vortex Viper PST (Gen 1) and Trijicon Accupower are the only LPVOs on our approved list, along with magnifiers no greater than 4x magnification.

Of those, the only logical choice to me was the Trijicon Accupower and I opted for the segmented circle. I will definitely need more time behind it, especially in varying light conditions, before I am comfortable with it residing on my patrol rifle.

31965

I have the old Aimpoint 3x magnifier but it did not seem to be of much benefit for the added weight. I suspect putting the Accupower and T1 with 3x magnifier against each other on the clock will be telling.

[HCM]

I started to delve a little deeper into the LPVO realm, changing from theorticial to applied.

The 1-4x offerings of the Burris MTAC, Vortex Crossfire, Vortex Viper PST (Gen 1) and Trijicon Accupower are the only LPVOs on our approved list, along with magnifiers no greater than 4x magnification.

Of those, the only logical choice to me was the Trijicon Accupower and I opted for the segmented circle. I will definitely need more time behind it, especially in varying light conditions, before I am comfortable with it residing on my patrol rifle.

31965

I have the old Aimpoint 3x magnifier but it did not seem to be of much benefit for the added weight. I suspect putting the Accupower and T1 with 3x magnifier against each other on the clock will be telling.

Do GA POST lint the magnification of Patrol rifle optics like TCOLE does in TX. Under TCOLE anything greater than 5x is considered a sniper / precision rifle and requires the corresponding training and qualification for duty use.

How have you found the brightness of the accupower ? I’ve heard reports it is not “daylight bright”

The Steiner PX4 seems Like it would be a viable 1-4 as would the NF though it’s a bit spendy.

[SamueL]

Do GA POST lint the magnification of Patrol rifle optics like TCOLE does in TX. Under TCOLE anything greater than 5x is considered a sniper / precision rifle and requires the corresponding training and qualification for duty use.

How have you found the brightness of the accupower ? I’ve heard reports it is not “daylight bright”

The Steiner PX4 seems Like it would be a viable 1-4 as would the NF though it’s a bit spendy.

I am unfamiliar if the state has a magnification limit. I believe that is up to the departments. Aray may known better.

My department limits magnification up to 4x except for specialized positions. That 4x magnification is limited to the LPVOs I listed and magnifiers.

I have found that the Accupower is not daylight bright and washes out rather quickly. That is why I need more time behind it. I can see issues with being able to see the unilluminated reticle in my AO.

I was going to buy a Steiner PX4 but it did not make our approved list. I wish I had some involvement with the optic selection process but suspect that would have went something like this:


CO: "Based on the department-wide survey, we are looking to increase the list of approved optics. What do you guys recommend?"

BeanCounter: "I have a Vortex Crossfire on my plinker. It is saaaweet!!!"

Me: "For the money, I recommend the Steiner PX4. It is a true 1x and daylight bright, making it very similar to the Aimpoints the department is trained on and familiar with. It has a maximum magnification of 4x meeting our established policy while assisting officers in target identification and likely increasing their qualification scores. The Steiner PX4 is a rugged, bombproof low-powered variable optic well suited for patrol use and has the accolades to back it."

CO: "Steiner? Never heard of 'em."

BeanCounter: "Me either... but my Vortex Crossfire is really saaaaaaaweet!!"

CO: "Let's put the Crossfire on the list then!"

[HCM]

I am unfamiliar if the state has a magnification limit. I believe that is up to the departments. Aray may known better.

My department limits magnification up to 4x except for specialized positions. That 4x magnification is limited to the LPVOs I listed and magnifiers.

I have found that the Accupower is not daylight bright and washes out rather quickly. That is why I need more time behind it. I can see issues with being able to see the unilluminated reticle in my AO.

I was going to buy a Steiner PX4 but it did not make our approved list. I wish I had some involvement with the optic selection process but suspect that would have went something like this:


CO: "Based on the department-wide survey, we are looking to increase the list of approved optics. What do you guys recommend?"

BeanCounter: "I have a Vortex Crossfire on my plinker. It is saaaweet!!!"

Me: "For the money, I recommend the Steiner PX4. It is a true 1x and daylight bright, making it very similar to the Aimpoints the department is trained on and familiar with. It has a maximum magnification of 4x meeting our established policy while assisting officers in target identification and likely increasing their qualification scores. The Steiner PX4 is a rugged, bombproof low-powered variable optic well suited for patrol use and has the accolades to back it."

CO: "Steiner? Never heard of 'em."

BeanCounter: "Me either... but my Vortex Crossfire is really saaaaaaaweet!!"

CO: "Let's put the Crossfire on the list then!"

You just need to say it right “Sch-tye-ner Opt-ich” mit Ze German accent, ya ?

Dogs and American morons find the German language strangely compelling.

Plus if you are buying it yourself what the hell do they care ?

[Sigfan26]

I am unfamiliar if the state has a magnification limit. I believe that is up to the departments. Aray may known better.

My department limits magnification up to 4x except for specialized positions. That 4x magnification is limited to the LPVOs I listed and magnifiers.

I have found that the Accupower is not daylight bright and washes out rather quickly. That is why I need more time behind it. I can see issues with being able to see the unilluminated reticle in my AO.

I was going to buy a Steiner PX4 but it did not make our approved list. I wish I had some involvement with the optic selection process but suspect that would have went something like this:


CO: "Based on the department-wide survey, we are looking to increase the list of approved optics. What do you guys recommend?"

BeanCounter: "I have a Vortex Crossfire on my plinker. It is saaaweet!!!"

Me: "For the money, I recommend the Steiner PX4. It is a true 1x and daylight bright, making it very similar to the Aimpoints the department is trained on and familiar with. It has a maximum magnification of 4x meeting our established policy while assisting officers in target identification and likely increasing their qualification scores. The Steiner PX4 is a rugged, bombproof low-powered variable optic well suited for patrol use and has the accolades to back it."

CO: "Steiner? Never heard of 'em."

BeanCounter: "Me either... but my Vortex Crossfire is really saaaaaaaweet!!"

CO: "Let's put the Crossfire on the list then!"

I bought the green reticle 1-4 Accupower and it is definitely NOT daylight bright. I bought the red 1-8 and it definitely is daylight bright.


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[HCM]

I bought the green reticle 1-4 Accupower and it is definitely NOT daylight bright. I bought the red 1-8 and it definitely is daylight bright.


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Interesting - I’m gueasing it’s the scope as green usually shows up better than red in daylight.

[Sigfan26]

Interesting - I’m gueasing it’s the scope as green usually shows up better than red in daylight.

Possible. The 1-8 is FFP, the 1-4 is SFP. It could be a simple matter of illuminating a smaller surface area in the FFP optic


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[Sigfan26]

Interesting - I’m gueasing it’s the scope as green usually shows up better than red in daylight.

My eyes are kinda shit, too. Could be I pick up Red better personally


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[HCM]

Possible. The 1-8 is FFP, the 1-4 is SFP. It could be a simple matter of illuminating a smaller surface area in the FFP optic


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Co- worker has a VCOG in red and it seems daytime Bu right but it should for what it cost.

[Sigfan26]

Co- worker has a VCOG in red and it seems daytime Bu right but it should for what it cost.

The 1-8 was much less than a VCog


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[HCM]

The 1-8 was much less than a VCog


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Yes, the 1-8 is about 2 1-4 accupowers cost wise.

The VCOG costs like 3.5 1-4s.

[Sigfan26]

Yes, the 1-8 is about 2 1-4 accupowers cost wise.

The VCOG costs like 3.5 1-4s.

I love my 1-8. I like my 1-4. I’d probably look at a Primary Arms Platinum 1-8 if I were looking at optics today. There are a couple up and comers I’m gonna check out that exceed 1-8. Still in prototype phase, though


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[Aray]

I am unfamiliar if the state has a magnification limit. I believe that is up to the departments. Aray may known better.

My department limits magnification up to 4x except for specialized positions. That 4x magnification is limited to the LPVOs I listed and magnifiers.



I'm not aware of MPOETC having authority over what an individual agency decides to use in our state SamueL. It's up to the agency.

[BehindBlueI's]

Just as an update, it looks like there's a solid chance variables will be authorized soon. Not due to anything I did, but some folks with credibility and drive took up the torch and are probably going to be successful.