Any info on safe life Hard Rifle Plate Level IV ICW

[Sixgun_Symphony]

https://safelifedefense.com/product/hard-rifle-plate-level-iv-icw/

The price isnt too bad.. But looking at the PDF it appears they only tested the plate against 6 shots of M2AP/30-06

The level IIIA and IIIA+ (didn't know that was a thing) appear to have a decent selection of handgun caliber rounds having been tested.

Other than that they don't provide much information.

Sorry I'm not as up on hard armor ratings and specs.. I recently refreshed myself with Docs hard and soft armor primers.



Edit: Dont really like the looks of this https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Safe+life+defense+Hard+Rifle+Plate+Level+ IV+ICW&&view=detail&mid=AA80F89617CAD6D57D91AA80F89617CAD6D57D91&&FORM=VRDGAR

[TGS]

The price isnt too bad.. But looking at the PDF it appears they only tested the plate against 6 shots of M2AP/30-06

Only? 6 shots is 6 times the amount required for NIJ Level 4 rating....


The level IIIA and IIIA+ (didn't know that was a thing) appear to have a decent selection of handgun caliber rounds having been tested.

IIIa+ and III+ is akin to ammo manufacturers +p+ ratings.....it's not an actual standard by NIJ. It's simply marketing by the manufacturer to indicate that a plate exceeds the usual standards for a given rating.....for instance, III+ is usually done to indicate that a plate will stop some form of 5.56, but it isn't an actual standard. So some III+ plates will stop both M193 and M855, whereas others might only stop one or the other. Since it's not an actual certification, there's no guarantee as to the task/condition/standards that the manufacturers testing was conducted by, either.


Edit: Dont really like the looks of this

Why? You want Level 4 specs.....and that performed to Level 4.

[WobblyPossum]

I think he’s saying that it appears the manufacturer only tested the plate with the 30-06 and and did not test it with any of the other rounds a Level IV plate is supposed to stop such as M855 and M193, etc.

[TGS]

I think he’s saying that it appears the manufacturer only tested the plate with the 30-06 and and did not test it with any of the other rounds a Level IV plate is supposed to stop such as M855 and M193, etc.

NIJ doesn't have a spec for stopping M855 and M193. The standard for Level 4 is to stop M2 AP 30-06 and all rounds in lower tests, of which 5.56 isn't in any of them.

Level 4 being able to stop M855 and M193 is either an assumption on the buyers part, or a separate test on the manufacturers part.

[WobblyPossum]

NIJ doesn't have a spec for stopping M855 and M193. The standard for Level 4 is to stop M2 AP 30-06 and all rounds in lower tests, of which 5.56 isn't in any of them.

Level 4 being able to stop M855 and M193 is either an assumption on the buyers part, or a separate test on the manufacturers part.

Huh. You’re right. I totally did not know that. I just checked the NIJ site and it basically just recommends at least level III and more likely level IV armor to stop 5.56. I just checked the website of my Level IV plate’s manufacturer and it says it will defeat M193 and M855 so I’m hoping they actually tested it.

[TGS]

Huh. You’re right. I totally did not know that. I just checked the NIJ site and it basically just recommends at least level III and more likely level IV armor to stop 5.56. I just checked the website of my Level IV plate’s manufacturer and it says it will defeat M193 and M855 so I’m hoping they actually tested it.

NIJ is frustratingly stuck in the past with regards to the current threat spectrum. Level III+ should be formalized in some manner for rating 5.56 (M193 and M855) given it's the most common rifle caliber in the US, and EPR should be tested as well given it's already showing up among gang members domestically. There's a ton of cops and EMS out there with rifle plates and a false sense of capability in what they'll stop when they go into an active shooter.

There's other things which they don't account for as well, like contact shots with soft armor. The FBI (and possibly other orgs?) conducts their own testing independent to NIJ and tests for this.

[jbrimlow]

AIUI, there aren't all that many actual OEMs for the hard plates themselves, and the vast majority of vendors out there are selling something that they put their branding on. If you can figure out the OEM (e.g. Tencate, Hesco), you can find a lot of good information on their website.

That said, I'm bad at IDing plate OEMs.

[Sixgun_Symphony]

NIJ doesn't have a spec for stopping M855 and M193. The standard for Level 4 is to stop M2 AP 30-06 and all rounds in lower tests, of which 5.56 isn't in any of them.

Level 4 being able to stop M855 and M193 is either an assumption on the buyers part, or a separate test on the manufacturers part.


Huh. You’re right. I totally did not know that. I just checked the NIJ site and it basically just recommends at least level III and more likely level IV armor to stop 5.56. I just checked the website of my Level IV plate’s manufacturer and it says it will defeat M193 and M855 so I’m hoping they actually tested it.

I guess I do like to see a more complete series of testing is all... and while yes, it meets the IV claim for 1 shot.. they said it stopped 6... But not in that video

[Default.mp3]

NIJ doesn't have a spec for stopping M855 and M193. The standard for Level 4 is to stop M2 AP 30-06 and all rounds in lower tests, of which 5.56 isn't in any of them. Actually, a Level IV need not pass the Level III testing protocols.

[HCM]

I guess I do like to see a more complete series of testing is all... and while yes, it meets the IV claim for 1 shot.. they said it stopped 6... But not in that video

What are you buying the plates for?

What is your threat profile ?

If it is domestic / CONUS LE then M193 and 855/green tip are common threats and you want players which will stop them.

Do not assume. As TGS said the NIH ratings on plates are BS.

[kjr_29]

NIJ is frustratingly stuck in the past with regards to the current threat spectrum. Level III+ should be formalized in some manner for rating 5.56 (M193 and M855) given it's the most common rifle caliber in the US, and EPR should be tested as well given it's already showing up among gang members domestically. There's a ton of cops and EMS out there with rifle plates and a false sense of capability in what they'll stop when they go into an active shooter.

There's other things which they don't account for as well, like contact shots with soft armor. The FBI (and possibly other orgs?) conducts their own testing independent to NIJ and tests for this.

NIJ has new categories and testing in process, rifle plates will go from Level III and IV, to Rifle 1-4, incorporating the industry III+ level. Not sure if the public comment window is still open but my team reviewed it for comment on behalf of my agency.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[kjr_29]

What are you buying the plates for?

What is your threat profile ?

If it is domestic / CONUS LE then M193 and 855/green tip are common threats and you want players which will stop them.

Do not assume. As TGS said the NIH ratings on plates are BS.

NIJ labels on a plate can be cross referenced with the active NIJ certifications listing on the NIJ/NLECTC website. Always good to double check a manufacturers claim.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[HCM]

NIJ labels on a plate can be cross referenced with the active NIJ certifications listing on the NIJ/NLECTC website. Always good to double check a manufacturers claim.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

But NIJ ratings are not keeping up with current threats.

NIJ operates on the assumption that just because a plate stops a “bigger” round like .308 or 30-06 must stop a “mere” 5.56.

Neither M855 green tip nor M193 are addressed directly in the NIJ listings.

https://www.justnet.org/pdf/Understanding-Armor-Protection.pdf

The problem is hard armor doesn’t work that way. There are plates which will stop 308, 30-06 and AK rounds which won’t stop green tip 5.56. There are also plates which will stop green tip but won’t stop M193, especially out of a 20” barrel.

You see this with steel targets as well, M193 being harder on steel than green tip.

This is what TGS was referring to earlier. It would be nice if they caught up and addressed two of the most common rifle threats but as of now they have not.

This is a sore subject with me as someone in my agency wasted a bunch of money buying Level III “in conjunction” poly plates and issuing them stand alone in plate carriers. Plus they are a different brand from our issued soft armor so even the in conjunction rationing from the manufacturer cannot be relied on.

[Hambo]

The FBI (and possibly other orgs?) conducts their own testing independent to NIJ and tests for this.

Are FBI test results available to other agencies or the public?

[kjr_29]

But NIJ ratings are not keeping up with current threats.

NIJ operates on the assumption that just because a plate stops a “bigger” round like .308 or 30-06 must stop a “mere” 5.56.

Neither M855 green tip nor M193 are addressed directly in the NIJ listings.

https://www.justnet.org/pdf/Understanding-Armor-Protection.pdf

The problem is hard armor doesn’t work that way. There are plates which will stop 308, 30-06 and AK rounds which won’t stop green tip 5.56. There are also plates which will stop green tip but won’t stop M193, especially out of a 20” barrel.

You see this with steel targets as well, M193 being harder on steel than green tip.

This is what TGS was referring to earlier. It would be nice if they caught up and addressed two of the most common rifle threats but as of now they have not.

This is a sore subject with me as someone in my agency wasted a bunch of money buying Level III “in conjunction” poly plates and issuing them stand alone in plate carriers. Plus they are a different brand from our issued soft armor so even the in conjunction rationing from the manufacturer cannot be relied on.

The “in conjunction” sentiment is understandable. When we began our search, some forthright folks in the industry were very clear with my team that there was no formula for armor ‘stacking’ (IIIA soft plus III hard equals.....).

We did a lot of shoot testing and ended up with multi-hit rated KDH Defense products, very pleased with them. It helps that they have a huge piece of the current gen contract for the Army. The contents of the plate will determine what it can defeat. Unfortunately, the high end ceramic composites that do defeat the small/hard/ fast rounds are priced outside of the budget reach for most agencies.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TGS]

Are FBI test results available to other agencies or the public?

I imagine so to other agencies, at least.

Doc might be a good source to check with.