New Optics-Ready CZ P-10C

[Mjolnir]

Found this on FB and noticed how low the optic sits *in* - not on - the slide.

Someone is thinking.



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180905/c5a9b4a87a9a124c8a48e9809dc734a0.jpeg


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[Wake27]

That looks good, but I can't be the only one that thinks that the CZ sights look absolutely stupid.

[Lon]

That looks good, but I can't be the only one that thinks that the CZ sights look absolutely stupid.

No. I was thinking the same thing. CZ suppressor sights are hideous.

[kitten_frenzy]

*patiently waits for the P-10S*

[psalms144.1]

Has CZ fixed the "striker turns to side making pistol inoperable" issue with the P10C yet?

[GJM]

In any case, yes, they’ve appear to have addressed the issue.

Great, now they have the engineering time to fix another problem.

[Mjolnir]

Great, now they have the engineering time to fix another problem.

What problem is this?

One thing I’ve noticed - as I have with all production pistols of all makes - is that the trigger pull feel can vary considerably between pistols: some are very crisp; others have a more or less pronounced “roll” to them.

I have installed the CGW striker and it has cleaned up the trigger pull - one of them noticeably so. Both have a smooth take up, a pronounced wall and crisp break.

I don’t notice the reset when firing but when dry firing it’s unchanged - very short and aggressive.

If only it came with decent sights... (see Night Fision in Dearborn, MI for that).


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[MGW]

It would be nice if the new full-size is optics ready out of the box.

[Lon]

What problem is this?


I believe he’s referring to the P09/07 issues he discovered.

[pew_pew]

The only pre-milled gun I would buy because that RMR sits deep. Also, looks like it uses posts like the 509 tactical to take force off the optic.

[Trukinjp13]

No. I was thinking the same thing. CZ suppressor sights are hideous.

The p10c I had with factory suppressor sights was pretty badass compared to my p07. They had a usable ledge instead of the ramp. They also looked a level up in fit and finish.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180907/c86ca58bc369d6c1a0d85d1d8f2d9749.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180907/bfe6eae2cf555204a21383701b4bbf68.jpg

[TOTS]

I’ve been looking but...has it been determined that there will never be a gadget for this? It’s literally the only reason I don’t have a P10 after shooting one.

[Jason M]

An SCD for the P-10 family would be really cool! Hint......Hint......Hint...... :cool:

[Mjolnir]

An SCD for the P-10 family would be really cool! Hint......Hint......Hint...... :cool:

Tom_Jones, ... [emoji1693][emoji1693][emoji1693][emoji847]


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[Rc217]

Recently got a P10c optics ready and have a few observations. It looks like the optic cut sits deeper than the mos but the plate from czc is thicker. This gives the optic an almost identical height above the slide to the same optic on a gen 5 17 mos with a v3 c&h precision plate. This allows the cz to use the factory screws that come with the optic and get what appears to be more thread engagement than a standard mos setup. The plate also fits into the cz with more support.

I’ll echo everything else already mentioned about the P10c. The trigger is nice, the undercut and length of backstrap allows a better grip for me than in a g19. I like the aggressive grip texture. It is very concealable. And it fits my safariland Glock rds holster with optic and x300u.

The things I don’t like should be fixed over time. Mainly the availability of backup sights and sight plates.

C&H should make plates for these.

[Mjolnir]

Recently got a P10c optics ready and have a few observations. It looks like the optic cut sits deeper than the mos but the plate from czc is thicker. This gives the optic an almost identical height above the slide to the same optic on a gen 5 17 mos with a v3 c&h precision plate. This allows the cz to use the factory screws that come with the optic and get what appears to be more thread engagement than a standard mos setup. The plate also fits into the cz with more support.

I’ll echo everything else already mentioned about the P10c. The trigger is nice, the undercut and length of backstrap allows a better grip for me than in a g19. I like the aggressive grip texture. It is very concealable. And it fits my safariland Glock rds holster with optic and x300u.

The things I don’t like should be fixed over time. Mainly the availability of backup sights and sight plates.

C&H should make plates for these.

Close up photos or you’re making it all up.

[emoji6]


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[1911Nut]

I believe he’s referring to the P09/07 issues he discovered.
Try as I might, I cannot find a discussion or George's comments regarding CZ P-07 and P-09 pistols on this forum. Can someone be so kind as to point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

[GJM]

Try as I might, I cannot find a discussion or George's comments regarding CZ P-07 and P-09 pistols on this forum. Can someone be so kind as to point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

Depending upon how you press the trigger in DA, and depending upon tolerances of an individual P07/09, you may get a click instead of bang in DA. I believe Cajun has or is working on a part to address this.

[1911Nut]

Thanks, George. I hadn't heard about that issue. Just curious, as all my CZ's are non-polymer models. But definitely good information and appreciated.

[GJM]

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[matt7184]

I had two of the original P10C models and got bad trigger slap/bite (rarely have this issue on any gun). Any issue with this one? I see that CGW has a new trigger to address this (and also a tool steel striker to address tolerance issues with stock part)

[SteveB]

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[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Those look hawt...

[JDB]

Those look hawt...

Funny, I was just thinking: "that's just about the ugliest looking gun...that probably works really well and I really want to try"

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Funny, I was just thinking: "that's just about the ugliest looking gun...that probably works really well and I really want to try"

That is the basic translation for what I meant by 'hawt', I don't really put much stock in looks when it comes to anything... form follows function and nothing more.

[GJM]

Looks funny, shoots good is a pretty fair description of the P10F.

At the end of my practice session this morning, I pulled out the P10F for a few rounds. This is shooting A zone steel at 18 yards, two hits to each steel.


https://youtu.be/bAOVN_TEqE8

[GJM]

P10F with DP Pro fits into a Glock holster.

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[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Nice rig, that was a great feature of thise pistols... wish holsters weren't so picky of what they work with.

[feudist]

Looks funny, shoots good is a pretty fair description of the P10F.

At the end of my practice session this morning, I pulled out the P10F for a few rounds. This is shooting A zone steel at 18 yards, two hits to each steel.


https://youtu.be/bAOVN_TEqE8

Well...is the prophesied Glockslayer?

[GJM]

Well...is the prophesied Glockslayer?

Nothing now, or for the foreseeable future, is truly a Glockslayer. If someone doesn’t get along with a Glock, or wants options, this is an excellent pistol. $550 buys you an optics ready pistol with excellent sights, that may fit in your Glock holster. I think the shooter/trigger interface is easier with the CZ than a Glock, but let’s face it, Glock = Apple IOS.

[Tod-13]

Nothing now, or for the foreseeable future, is truly a Glockslayer. If someone doesn’t get along with a Glock, or wants options, this is an excellent pistol. $550 buys you an optics ready pistol with excellent sights, that may fit in your Glock holster. I think the shooter/trigger interface is easier with the CZ than a Glock, but let’s face it, Glock = Apple IOS.

My understanding on cost includes the caveats that 1) it comes with no optics plates and 2) it does not come with optics-usable iron sights.

And the caveat that availability of iron sights are questionable (although I was able to easily find the P10 C Aimpoint plate in stock).

[Bart Carter]

...but let’s face it, Glock = Apple IOS.

Well, that explains it. I use Android. :p

[awp_101]

Depending upon how you press the trigger in DA, and depending upon tolerances of an individual P07/09, you may get a click instead of bang in DA. I believe Cajun has or is working on a part to address this.
I remember reading your posts on this as you were going through the troubleshooting process but I don’t recall if it was with the Cajun parts, stock parts or both?

[GJM]

I remember reading your posts on this as you were going through the troubleshooting process but I don’t recall if it was with the Cajun parts, stock parts or both?

Cajun says both.

[awp_101]

Hmmm, that makes things a little more interesting. Thanks!

[Clusterfrack]

I remember reading your posts on this as you were going through the troubleshooting process but I don’t recall if it was with the Cajun parts, stock parts or both?

I have tried the CGW sear pin, and it had no effect on drop to half cock. The pin does slightly improve an already excellent SA trigger pull, so there's that.

I am not convinced that there is any "tolerance" issue. Every single P-07 I have tested will drop to half cock ONLY when my trigger finger tip hits the frame just as the sear breaks. I have found no effect of lateral pressure on the trigger, or orientation of the gun.

I believe the gun is operating normally, and this is simply what happens when the sear is allowed to return and catch the half-cock notch on the hammer. This is part of the drop safety system.


I have tested multple P07s, and can get all of them to drop to half cock but ONLY when my trigger finger tip hits the frame just as the sear breaks.

If you do not have large hands with long fingers, this will be a very contrived trigger pull, with the finger sunk deep into the guard.

I have found no effect of lateral pressure on the trigger, or orientation of the gun.

[Alpha Sierra]

Depending upon how you press the trigger in DA, and depending upon tolerances of an individual P07/09, you may get a click instead of bang in DA. I believe Cajun has or is working on a part to address this.

My P-09 doesn't have this issue. The P-07 I used to have did not either. I thought your issue happens only when you modify the guns with aftermarket parts?

[Clusterfrack]

My P-09 doesn't have this issue. The P-07 I used to have did not either. I thought your issue happens only when you modify the guns with aftermarket parts?

I bet you can make it do it. It's not easy, but when you learn the trick you can make it happen. Insert your finger up to the second knuckle. Slowly pull the trigger and pinch your fingertip between the back of the trigger and the frame just as the DA sear releases. It's easier to do with a light hammer spring, or no hammer spring at all.

[GJM]

My P-09 doesn't have this issue. The P-07 I used to have did not either. I thought your issue happens only when you modify the guns with aftermarket parts?

Cajun tested stock pistols, and a significant percentage exhibited the same problem. I noticed it on Cajun modified (by Cajun) pistols.
.

I bet you can make it do it. It's not easy, but when you learn the trick you can make it happen. Insert your finger up to the second knuckle. Slowly pull the trigger and pinch your fingertip between the back of the trigger and the frame just as the DA sear releases. It's easier to do with a light hammer spring, or no hammer spring at all.

That may be how you can reproduce it, but I can say for sure that isn’t how I encountered the problem. I use just shy of the first crease of trigger finger.

[Clusterfrack]

Cajun tested stock pistols, and a significant percentage exhibited the same problem. I noticed it on Cajun modified (by Cajun) pistols.
.


That may be how you can reproduce it, but I can say for sure that isn’t how I encountered the problem. I use just shy of the first crease of trigger finger.

I understand that. But so far, no one has shown me a gun that drops to half cock without hitting the trigger finger on the frame in some way, just as the sear breaks.

My testing is not consistent with the CGW explanation, and based on my analysis I think they are incorrect about why it happens.

[GJM]

It has been nearly a year, so my recollection is not perfect, but I thought it was the timing of how you pressed the trigger that caused the issue?

In any event, for me, this issue was a complete show stopper for the P07/09. Using a handgun for self defense is a low probability, but high seriousness proposition, and there are enough other good choices that I don’t want to worry how I press a DA trigger to make the gun fire. Your wildlife encounter could have been different, and it is not hard to envision you, or your wife, pressing the trigger imperfectly in a FUT.

I bear no ill will towards CZ generally, and am shooting a Shadow at a match this weekend. The P10 pistols show great promise, too.

[Clusterfrack]

I have tried to cause the trigger effect in so many different ways, and simply can’t unless I do something very contrived. There are a lot of ways to make a gun not go bang in a FUT, and this —at least for my hands—is low on the scale.

[Alpha Sierra]

See what you want to see...….

[Trukinjp13]

So the optics ready p10 is a pretty badass setup.......


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[Clusterfrack]

See what you want to see...….

That’s not my approach. As scientist and engineer, I prefer to study the problem empirically, and try to understand the mechanism. I’m satisfied that I have done that with this issue.

[Alpha Sierra]

That’s not my approach. As scientist and engineer, I prefer to study the problem empirically, and try to understand the mechanism. I’m satisfied that I have done that with this issue.

I agree.

[GJM]

That’s not my approach. As scientist and engineer, I prefer to study the problem empirically, and try to understand the mechanism. I’m satisfied that I have done that with this issue.

Nobody here, or elsewhere, has given me what I consider a satisfactory explanation of why this is happening and how it is acceptable in a defensive handgun.

I first experienced this problem in several pistols, in practice and in a match setting. Originally I thought it was defective ammo or a problem with a specific pistol, as it never occurred to me that a mainstream pistol might not fire in DA, depending how you pressed the trigger. Only when it effected multiple pistols, did I figure out what was going on.

You will recall that the “forum explanation” originally was that Cajun had screwed up the installation of their trigger parts.

Then Cajun claimed, when I contacted them, that they had never heard of the problem before I pointed it out to them.

Then Cajun claimed it had only happened one other time.

Then Cajun claimed that they tested all the OEM unmodified P07/09 pistols in their inventory, and about half the stock pistols exhibited this problem.

Then Cajun announced they were developing a part to address this non problem. They also said the problem is a design aspect of the Omega trigger system, which is different than the trigger system in the 75/Shadow pistols.

Then others experienced the same thing as I did. (I have always wondered how many times someone got a “light strike” in DA, they were actually experiencing the same problem as me.

Now apparently, there has been a satisfactory explanation of exactly what is happening, and how this is acceptable in a defensive handgun? I actually think this is worse than the 320 drop safety problem. At least with the 320, the pistol fires, and as long as you didn’t drop it, it basically functions. With this problem, you could press the trigger in DA, the way most of us carry the 07/09 and get click when you expect bang.

[Clusterfrack]

I get where you're coming from, and can understand how you reach your conclusion.

However, after figuring out how the P-07 works, and testing my theory about the mechanism of the issue, I have concluded:

1) all the guns I have tried are the same. There is no difference based on manufacturing tolerance or aftermarket parts. I can't say why CGW concluded otherwise.

2) the hammer drops to half cock when a force interrupts the trigger pull at the exact moment the DA sear releases. I'm open to revising my conclusion if someone can show me a gun that drops to half cock under other conditions.

3) this happens because the the sear is allowed to return, catching the half cock notch, likely as designed to prevent a AD if the gun is dropped

4) I cannot make the gun do it unless I pinch my finger under the trigger.

5) If I had really big hands with long fingers, I could see how this might be an issue.

It's not anything like the p320 drop issue, where the gun was blatantly unsafe, and was poorly engineered. I think the P-07 is among the best designed DA/SA guns I have seen.


Nobody here, or elsewhere, has given me what I consider a satisfactory explanation of why this is happening and how it is acceptable in a defensive handgun.

I first experienced this problem in several pistols, in practice and in a match setting. Originally I thought it was defective ammo or a problem with a specific pistol, as it never occurred to me that a mainstream pistol might not fire in DA, depending how you pressed the trigger. Only when it effected multiple pistols, did I figure out what was going on.

You will recall that the “forum explanation” originally was that Cajun had screwed up the installation of their trigger parts.

Then Cajun claimed, when I contacted them, that they had never heard of the problem before I pointed it out to them.

Then Cajun claimed it had only happened one other time.

Then Cajun claimed that they tested all the OEM unmodified P07/09 pistols in their inventory, and about half the stock pistols exhibited this problem.

Then Cajun announced they were developing a part to address this non problem. They also said the problem is a design aspect of the Omega trigger system, which is different than the trigger system in the 75/Shadow pistols.

Then others experienced the same thing as I did. (I have always wondered how many times someone got a “light strike” in DA, they were actually experiencing the same problem as me.

Now apparently, there has been a satisfactory explanation of exactly what is happening, and how this is acceptable in a defensive handgun? I actually think this is worse than the 320 drop safety problem. At least with the 320, the pistol fires, and as long as you didn’t drop it, it basically functions. With this problem, you could press the trigger in DA, the way most of us carry the 07/09 and get click when you expect bang.

[Trukinjp13]

Can we move this back into the p07 thread?



The p10 to me is a better shooter out of the box than Glocks. The trigger is better and the ergos are more comfortable. If you do not care about a gadget than to me go CZ if you are on the fence.

With a dot and that trigger a p10 will be a hell of a setup. The meds will sit lower than most competitors. The factory sights are also better out of the box. I am not saying it is better to switch from a invested platform. But to get into the optics game it is a great option.


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[Mjolnir]

Can we move this back into the p07 thread?



The p10 to me is a better shooter out of the box than Glocks. The trigger is better and the ergos are more comfortable. If you do not care about a gadget than to me go CZ if you are on the fence.

With a dot and that trigger a p10 will be a hell of a setup. The meds will sit lower than most competitors. The factory sights are also better out of the box. I am not saying it is better to switch from a invested platform. But to get into the optics game it is a great option.


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I wholly agree.

Even if you have only two Glocks the P-10C is a worthy platform to invest in. Now if you have a “box of Glocks” investing in ANYTHING else could be questioned but I can assure you that the P-10C is the better shooter of the two.

Yes, it needs a Gadget...


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[MGW]

I wish they had breaks ken the CZ mood and gone with a shorter grip on the full-size. I prefer that size of pistol for carry but the extra length of the F isn’t concealable for me.

[Rc217]

I wish they had breaks ken the CZ mood and gone with a shorter grip on the full-size. I prefer that size of pistol for carry but the extra length of the F isn’t concealable for me.

Full size slide works on a compact frame. The compact frame gives me a full firing grip where the g19 does not. I have the c and am looking forward to getting an f to swap the slides. CZ also plans to release a version with the compact grip and full size slide. I think the cz really shines for a Leo that can carry a personally owned weapon but can’t make very many, if any changes to the weapon. The lack of compatible back up sights and plates is disappointing right now but the out of the box irons are great if you aren’t worried about optics yet. As a side note, I installed a .400 Dawson front sight for the p09 on my P10c. I can get a low, better than nothing backup sight picture with the dpp, and I think it will be great for the ACRO.

[MGW]

Good deal. When they release the compact frame full size slide I might have to check one out.

[GJM]

I shot my new P10C OR for the first time this morning. I have not mounted an optic on the C yet, and this with the OEM iron sights which I find excellent in appearance and regulation. After some initial shots, I fired a single five round group at ten yards with 147 HST. This thing is crazy accurate and the ergos allow you to take advantage of its accuracy. After the first three rounds, I was pretty jumpy on the last two shots, thinking I would screw up the group!


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A buddy has a P10F with an RMR, and the OEM sights are almost high enough to usable. Will have to try shooting them with the dot off and see whether they are close enough to function as BUIS.

I did enough shooting with the P10C to feel like it is easier for me to shoot than a Glock 19, and the P10F is a capable CO pistol. The Shadow 1/2 and P10F are all great shooting optics guns, but they have different character. The Shadows are slower for me to draw and transition, but easier to split. The P10F is faster drawing and transitioning for me. I edited down some footage to give just a few seconds doing two repetitions of a draw to two A zone hits at 7 yards, followed by two repetitions of two to the head at 7 yards, so you can see how the pistol cycles.


https://youtu.be/8WLiEtEx1UU

[GJM]

My wife figured how to improve the magwell son the 320 X5 lowers, and I encouraged her to work on my P10F pistols. This is what she did and it is awesome.

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