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choclab
02-25-2012, 08:30 PM
I was not sure where to ask this question, it didn't fit in any of the other categories. If the moderators feel it is more appropriate in a different area please move it. So my question is.

There will be an AFHF class at the end of march in kansas that will only be 3hrs away from me. I'm thinking I would like to attend it but would like some feedback from people that have taking that class.

I'm a civilian and this would be my first pistol class. I've been shooting pistols for 6-7 years just have never done any class or competition. I go the the local range couple times a month and have all the proper gear ( holster, mag carrier ) need for the class. Just wondering if this class is to much for the beginner class. Any opinions are helpful. Thanks

JodyH
02-25-2012, 08:39 PM
I was not sure where to ask this question, it didn't fit in any of the other categories. If the moderators feel it is more appropriate in a different area please move it. So my question is.

There will be an AFHF class at the end of march in kansas that will only be 3hrs away from me. I'm thinking I would like to attend it but would like some feedback from people that have taking that class.

I'm a civilian and this would be my first pistol class. I've been shooting pistols for 6-7 years just have never done any class or competition. I go the the local range couple times a month and have all the proper gear ( holster, mag carrier ) need for the class. Just wondering if this class is to much for the beginner class. Any opinions are helpful. Thanks
From Todd's web site:

Prerequisites: This is a fast-paced class suited to shooters who have already achieved proficiency with a handgun. At a minimum, prospective students should be capable of performing the following drill(s) on demand:

• Fire and hit a 3×5 card at 5 yards on demand
• Draw, fire 1, reload, fire 2 (3 hits on 8″ circle) at 7 yards in eight seconds

Individuals who cannot meet these requirements at the beginning of class will not be able to keep up with the fast and demanding pace of instruction.

TCinVA
02-25-2012, 08:41 PM
Having done AFHF a time or two, I don't consider it to be a "beginner" class. If you're already a grand master and you're dominating every competition you enter, then it's probably going to be a bit slow for you. If you're not at that level yet, you'll probably find having a gifted diagnostic instructor take a look at what you're doing and give you some useful tools to increase your performance.

If you can meet the prerequisites, you'll probably get a lot out of the class. Obviously Todd's the expert on this, but from my observation if there's a danger of mismatch with AFHF it's usually from people who don't have the proper command of the fundamentals to meet the prerequisites rather than from people who already have a superior skill set.

choclab
02-25-2012, 08:50 PM
From Todd's web site:

Prerequisites: This is a fast-paced class suited to shooters who have already achieved proficiency with a handgun. At a minimum, prospective students should be capable of performing the following drill(s) on demand:

• Fire and hit a 3×5 card at 5 yards on demand
• Draw, fire 1, reload, fire 2 (3 hits on 8″ circle) at 7 yards in eight seconds

Individuals who cannot meet these requirements at the beginning of class will not be able to keep up with the fast and demanding pace of instruction.

Yea I read that. I guess I thought it was kinda broad considering a 2day $400 class. Just looking for peoples opinion on the actual class. Thank you tho

choclab
02-25-2012, 08:51 PM
Having done AFHF a time or two, I don't consider it to be a "beginner" class. If you're already a grand master and you're dominating every competition you enter, then it's probably going to be a bit slow for you. If you're not at that level yet, you'll probably find having a gifted diagnostic instructor take a look at what you're doing and give you some useful tools to increase your performance.

If you can meet the prerequisites, you'll probably get a lot out of the class. Obviously Todd's the expert on this, but from my observation if there's a danger of mismatch with AFHF it's usually from people who don't have the proper command of the fundamentals to meet the prerequisites rather than from people who already have a superior skill set.

Thank you. I guess I'll have to try and have someone time me on the two things that I need to go on.

JDM
02-25-2012, 09:03 PM
AFHF was the first training class I ever took, and while I shot an advanced score of 6.71 on the FAST, it was A LOT of information. Not to say that I suffered from taking it while so green, but 6 months later, in still picking stuff up from the class.

I'd say if you can comfortably meet the prerequisites, then take it, but be prepared to learn more in two days than you ever have before. However, if you are toeing the line on what the class requires, then wait. Like TC says, it is not a beginner class, and not only will you suffer if you cannot keep up, the 11 people around you that are paying $200 a day will suffer too.

Use objective, emotion free judgement when deciding.

VolGrad
02-25-2012, 09:11 PM
Like TC says, it is not a beginner class, and not only will you suffer if you cannot keep up, the 11 people around you that are paying $200 a day will suffer too.

Use objective, emotion free judgement when deciding.
This.

Not saying you are or are not ready. I have no way to know that. I'm just saying BOM and TC hit it on the head.

WDW
02-25-2012, 10:39 PM
If you can meet the prereq's do it. If you cannot, you should probably wait. By the way, $200 a day is pretty cheap for the level of instruction you are getting. Compare Todd's prices to others and you'll see the bargain you are getting.

JSGlock34
02-25-2012, 11:41 PM
Here's an AAR on the AFHF class I attended two years ago. (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?96-AAR-Aim-Fast-Hit-Fast-Culpeper-VA-15-16-May-2010)

I'd characterize AFHF as an Intermediate level class. I had attended formal training previous to AFHF, and found AFHF built nicely on that foundation.

From your post I see your statement that you have the proper gear, but how versed are you in using it? Do you practice drawing from the holster? Do you practice reloading from your magazine pouches? Consider some regular dry practice to build these skills. Some drills add a concealment garment.

I'd say if you can't hit that index card on demand at 5 yards as listed in the training prerequisites, practice until you can. I wouldn't worry if some of the skills listed in AFHF are new to you - one of the reasons we take training is to learn new skills. Not everyone who shows up to AFHF is going to have shot on the move before. But it is important to have a foundation in the fundamentals to build upon.

Lomshek
02-26-2012, 12:19 AM
I'm a civilian and this would be my first pistol class. I've been shooting pistols for 6-7 years just have never done any class or competition. I go the the local range couple times a month and have all the proper gear ( holster, mag carrier ) need for the class. Just wondering if this class is to much for the beginner class. Any opinions are helpful. Thanks

Choclab, I'm hosting the Pittsburg class and can maybe help. This is in no way meant to bash you.

If you have never competed and never done timed shooting diagnostics or tests to push yourself it would be incredibly rare for you to be ready for an AFHF class. A few things you can do to test your readiness without a shot timer are below (a shot timer makes it a lot easier if you can beg, borrow or steal one).

If you're willing to make the drive our monthly USPSA match is March 4th (Sunday) near Pittsburg. I'll be glad to run you in my squad and help evaluate your level. If there is a USPSA or IDPA match close to you that would also serve to give you some idea of where you stand. For the average USPSA club if you can finish close to the middle of the field then you're probably fine, if you are one of the last placed competitors then you are probably not ready for AFHF.

Tests to try...

Dot torture - Can you keep 90% of your rounds in the dots?

No shot timer - If a timer is not possible use a cheap watch with stopwatch feature. Set the stopwatch on a chair or table so you can see the time as soon as you're done shooting. Knock a second or so off for reaction time.

Bear in mind it would be far worse to take a class over your level than below your level. If a class is a little on the easy side then you get to focus on fundamentals, if a class is beyond your ability you will be lost. Think of it like a foreign language class.

If you want some suggestions of other classes tell us where you live. There are lots of qualified instructors in the surrounding states & Kansas.

Feel free to email me directly if you have any specific questions you want to discuss with me about the Pittsburg class.

Roger Lomshek
Bone Creek Match Director
roger at tailwindcyclists dot com

NETim
02-26-2012, 09:42 AM
I'm not 100% 100% of the time, but close enough. I don't think I'll slow things down.

choclab
02-26-2012, 03:52 PM
Thank you for all the reply's. That is what I was looking for. The honest opinions from people that new what it took to take this class. No hard feelings at all.

At this time I'm be waiting to take a AFHF, maybe next year if it comes back.

I've been told the tdsatulsa.com has a decent class for starting out. Anybody been there before?

Lomshek
02-26-2012, 07:40 PM
USSA in Tulsa is one training outfit I've heard great things about. (http://usshootingacademy.com/)

VolGrad
02-26-2012, 08:28 PM
USSA in Tulsa is one training outfit I've heard great things about. (http://usshootingacademy.com/)

I've taken a few classes from Erik Lund of USSA .... pistol & carbine. I would also recommend looking at them.

http://usshootingacademy.com/content.aspx?id=21

ToddG
02-27-2012, 04:55 PM
Late to the party but just some thoughts in case others search and find this thread:

I'd much rather someone not take AFHF than show up without the prerequisite skill. The class jumps into speed from the beginning and assumes you already have good trigger control and marksmanship fundamentals. The test used in class (F.A.S.T.) involves hitting a 3x5 card at 7yd under time pressure. If you cannot hit that target at slow speed, you'll have a hard time ramping up to hit it at fast speed.

The other painful truth of AFHF is that the class does not slow down to the slowest student. If eleven people meet the prerequisite and one does not, that one guy is going to get left behind. I've had a few students complain about it over the years but try to see it from the other students' perspective: they paid for AFHF, not Marksmanship 101. Neither did they pay to watch me coach one student 90% of the time.

There have been a number of people who've shown up to AFHF as their first class and done well. BOM is just one example. But in general I'd not recommend AFHF as your first formal firearms instruction, at least not unless you are very comfortable that you can easily meet the listed prerequisites.

Hope that helps.

JodyH
02-27-2012, 05:05 PM
I'd much rather someone not take AFHF than show up without the prerequisite skill.

The other painful truth of AFHF is that the class does not slow down to the slowest student.
Thank you.

NETim
02-27-2012, 06:29 PM
So, in my case, I hit the 3x5" card from 5 yards about 95% of time with about an 2.3s average draw. (open front shirt concealment IWB leather holster worn strong side)

I can break 10 seconds on the FAST on occasion (about 25%) of the time right now.

Am I going to be wasting my time? I signed up for this class thinking this was the best way to gain speed.

Lomshek
02-27-2012, 08:42 PM
NETim,

One of Todd's pre-req's is Draw, fire 1 round, reload and fire 2 rounds (3 hits on 8″ circle) at 7 yards in eight seconds. If you can shoot a clean (no misses) FAST in less than 10 seconds then I would expect you will be able to keep pace without any problem.

If you're in doubt then use the FAST target 8" circle for that test. It sounds to me like you meet the pre-req's and will be fine. If Todd has more input I'm sure he will join in.

ToddG
02-28-2012, 09:47 AM
So, in my case, I hit the 3x5" card from 5 yards about 95% of time with about an 2.3s average draw. (open front shirt concealment IWB leather holster worn strong side)

The 3x5@5yd "test" is not intended to be timed, it's simply a marksmanship challenge. If you can do it at speed almost all the time, it's probably safe to assume you can hit it 100% if you take speed out of the equation.


I can break 10 seconds on the FAST on occasion (about 25%) of the time right now.

Then our goal in class is to make that 100%!

Prdator
02-28-2012, 10:32 AM
Thank you for all the reply's. That is what I was looking for. The honest opinions from people that new what it took to take this class. No hard feelings at all.

At this time I'm be waiting to take a AFHF, maybe next year if it comes back.

I've been told the tdsatulsa.com has a decent class for starting out. Anybody been there before?



Ive had TDSA's class and it would be fine for you, If you are in Tulsa also look at USSA if you are in the OKC area I have some classes that would tune you right up.

Go get some basic classes out of the way and then jump into a AFHF!!!!!!!

NickA
02-28-2012, 10:54 AM
Go get some basic classes out of the way and then jump into a AFHF!!!!!!!
Definitely. I took AFHF after one basic class and shooting several IDPA matches. I did OK, mostly due to ToddG's excellent coaching, but would have gotten alot more out of it if I had been more consistent going in.


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