1911 in 9mm. What’s the best?

[Dismas316]

I have resisted these from the beginning but may need to reconsider. Interested in a 1911 in 9mm (yes I know real ones come in 45). My ideal one would be closer to the g19 size, something like the Springfield EMP 4 but open to suggestions. This role would be for edc (not replacing my glocks) but just like that as an option. Candidly it would be more of a range gun but I always like to have pistols that can be concealed carry as an option as I mentioned.

So what do you suggest and why? Pics are encouraged, who doesn’t like gun porn?

[JAD]

A lot of people really like carrying guns in the lightweight commander format (4-4.25” barrel, full size grip). Dan Wesson and Wilson both make excellent examples.

[Tom Duffy]

The Springfield EMP 4 Concealed Carry Contour looks very interesting, though non-traditional in terms of internal parts. And Springfields are reliable.

[M2CattleCo]

If you want one that really works, then start with Wilson Combat. They have the 9mm 1911 about as sorted out as it has ever been.

[TCFD273]

I have resisted these from the beginning but may need to reconsider. Interested in a 1911 in 9mm (yes I know real ones come in 45). My ideal one would be closer to the g19 size, something like the Springfield EMP 4 but open to suggestions. This role would be for edc (not replacing my glocks) but just like that as an option. Candidly it would be more of a range gun but I always like to have pistols that can be concealed carry as an option as I mentioned.

So what do you suggest and why? Pics are encouraged, who doesn’t like gun porn?

Dan Wesson and Wilson Combat are the 2 I have personal experience with.

I’ve owned 4 1911’s chambered in 9mm, 3 needed tuning to get them to run 100%.

If I was going to bet my life on one, it would be a Wilson.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180901/76303cfbf2ed82544e5e27bf3eb93f3c.jpg


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[TC215]

Dan Wesson and Wilson Combat have 9mm 1911’s figured out better than anyone else.

[OlongJohnson]

There are some good deals on stainless 9mm Valor Commanders out there.

[MGW]

What’s your budget?

[fatdog]

My personal experience with the Dan Wesson 9mm commanders has been excellent.

[M2CattleCo]

What’s your budget?

He hey, we're talking 1911s here!!

[LittleLebowski]

A
Dan Wesson and Wilson Combat are the 2 I have personal experience with.

I’ve owned 4 1911’s chambered in 9mm, 3 needed tuning to get them to run 100%.

If I was going to bet my life on one, it would be a Wilson.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180901/76303cfbf2ed82544e5e27bf3eb93f3c.jpg


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I wouldn’t carry a 1911 nor am a fan of engraving. Exception now made.

[Bigghoss]

He hey, we're talking 1911s here!!

If you have a budget, probably shouldn't be looking at 1911's.

[StraitR]

As a person who's carried a 9mm Commander for the better part of two years, I'll echo what's already been said. DW or Wilson. The choice will be based solely on budget or desire to spend more. Bill Wilson likes the 4" 9mm's better than traditional 4.25" bushing Commanders, and seeing how he knows a thing or two about them, I based my choice on his experience. That said, I opted for a Professional steel frame. If doing it again today, I'd likely go Compact LW frame. When I ordered, I had been carrying a 19 for nearly 10 years, so loosing 33% capacity was already enough for me. I could live with a couple less at this point, just to save some weight. Mine shoots like a pussy-cat though.

One thing to remember when considering a Wilson, they are ALL CQB's when it comes to function and build. Prices only increase up when you gussy them up with things that have no bearing on function and reliability. A $2900 CQB will work as well as a $3999 fancy pants model.

If you don't want to spend $3k+, then DW is the answer for a 9mm. The recently discontinued Valkyrie can be found in 9mm CCO and Commander formats, and I've seen them as low as $1199 on GB. Insane deal.

A pic, because you asked.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4279/35490721685_c82751bb37_c.jpg

[TCFD273]

As a person who's carried a 9mm Commander for the better part of two years, I'll echo what's already been said. DW or Wilson. The choice will be based solely on budget or desire to spend more. Bill Wilson likes the 4" 9mm's better than traditional 4.25" bushing Commanders, and seeing how he knows a thing or two about them, I based my choice on his experience. That said, I opted for a Professional steel frame. If doing it again today, I'd likely go Compact LW frame. When I ordered, I had been carrying a 19 for nearly 10 years, so loosing 33% capacity was already enough for me. I could live with a couple less at this point, just to save some weight. Mine shoots like a pussy-cat though.

One thing to remember when considering a Wilson, they are ALL CQB's when it comes to function and build. Prices only increase up when you gussy them up with things that have no bearing on function and reliability. A $2900 CQB will work as well as a $3999 fancy pants model.

If you don't want to spend $3k+, then DW is the answer for a 9mm. The recently discontinued Valkyrie can be found in 9mm CCO and Commander formats, and I've seen them as low as $1199 on GB. Insane deal.

A pic, because you asked.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4279/35490721685_c82751bb37_c.jpg

I’ll echo this having owned 6 Wilson’s. If your not going Supergrade, spec what you want, but keep it simple. You’ll lose your a$$ on resale dressing them up (says guy with engraved Supergrade lol).

They are 1911’s built for hard use, and they CAN be run hard and just keep going.


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[JSGlock34]

I think StraitR has it right - here's my CQB Elite Carry (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?32196-First-1-000-rounds-with-the-Wilson-Combat-CQB-Elite-Carry-9mm-1911).

https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28288&d=1532296223

[Dismas316]

If you have a budget, probably shouldn't be looking at 1911's.


Lol, this ^^. I do realize that if you want a good, reliable 1911 option, you typically will have to pay for that. That said, don’t hesitate to suggest what you think a great “value” would be that is reliable.

[Dismas316]

As a person who's carried a 9mm Commander for the better part of two years, I'll echo what's already been said. DW or Wilson. The choice will be based solely on budget or desire to spend more. Bill Wilson likes the 4" 9mm's better than traditional 4.25" bushing Commanders, and seeing how he knows a thing or two about them, I based my choice on his experience. That said, I opted for a Professional steel frame. If doing it again today, I'd likely go Compact LW frame. When I ordered, I had been carrying a 19 for nearly 10 years, so loosing 33% capacity was already enough for me. I could live with a couple less at this point, just to save some weight. Mine shoots like a pussy-cat though.

One thing to remember when considering a Wilson, they are ALL CQB's when it comes to function and build. Prices only increase up when you gussy them up with things that have no bearing on function and reliability. A $2900 CQB will work as well as a $3999 fancy pants model.

If you don't want to spend $3k+, then DW is the answer for a 9mm. The recently discontinued Valkyrie can be found in 9mm CCO and Commander formats, and I've seen them as low as $1199 on GB. Insane deal.

A pic, because you asked.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4279/35490721685_c82751bb37_c.jpg


That is a very sweet looking gun. Thanks for posting the pic.

[TCFD273]

Lol, this ^^. I do realize that if you want a good, reliable 1911 option, you typically will have to pay for that. That said, don’t hesitate to suggest what you think a great “value” would be that is reliable.

Buy a used Wilson, deals are out there. I’d guess $2500-2900 depending on what you want. Wilson has excellent customer service on their 1911’s.

Dan Wesson are half that.

Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn both told me Dan Wesson’s are the best value/budget 1911. That’s what led to me purchasing one.


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[M2CattleCo]

You should really get in touch with Jerry Hammond and/or George Talia before you buy something. In stock Wilsons command a premium due to avoiding the wait. They have much better pricing than most anywhere else.


A properly built 9mm will run and run. This one has 6,727 rounds through it. All original springs, never cleaned, has had 3 stoppages due to junky ammo, and one where I apparently hit the slide stop before the mag was seated.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1911/i-CMQKRDb/0/443fe7ce/X3/16BB74EC-7159-40E2-B030-B2EF6930928C-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1911/i-3Xfwxcb/0/02572e03/X3/5638B6D6-760A-453D-BAC3-BDE1DE774FA7-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1911/i-qzGrwD7/0/302be43d/M/42CD1203-65C2-49AB-B2B3-EF915C6C5D3D-M.jpg

[newyork]

Agreed on George Talia. Always has awesome pricing. You just have to call him.

That’s sick M2!


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[CSW]

I own a Springfield Range officer champion[commander] in 9mm. While I didn't have the cash for one of the big boys at the time, [sure wish I did] I purchased the RO after doing my research. There were positive and negative comments on it, but the positive far outnumbered the negative.

It's parkerized, with a fiber front and a Novak style rear, with 2 white dots. They were blackened with a paint pen.
I surely don't have alot of mileage on it, but it's at 1500 rounds with only 3 stoppages, that were related to ammunition, not the weapon. [non firing primers]

I'd sure love to get a Wilson or Les...:mad:

29737

[spockrock]

Long time lurker here...

I just acquired a Colt Wiley Clapp 9mm Commander secondhand. I’ve had it just over 2 weeks and put around 300rds through it. It’s all I want to shoot at the range now. My g19s have taken a back seat. I’d love to be able to purchase a Wilson, but the Colt had everything I wanted in a 9mm 1911 (LW frame, front strap checkerimg)outside of tritium sights. I’d highly recommend one for a middle of the road option.

[StraitR]

I'd sure love to get a Wilson or Les...:mad:



I'm an unabashed Les Baer fan, but I would not buy one of his 9mm or Commander (Commanche) offerings. Neither are his thing. Les Baer 1911's are best served in Govt 45.

[Jason Burton]

What’s your budget?

Exactly... it's wise to define how much you want to spend in order to find the 'best' within that price point.

[Gary1911A1]

I really like my Dan Wesson in 9MM and likely will pick up another in the future when funds allow.

[camsdaddy]

A properly built 9mm will run and run. This one has 6,727 rounds through it. All original springs, never cleaned, has had 3 stoppages due to junky ammo, and one where I apparently hit the slide stop before the mag was seated.



Spending >$3000 on a pistol would give me anxiety. I think I would have to clean it if for no other reason than to spend time with it. I can't imagine treating it like a Glock but I think you have proven they can be reliable and durable and not as fragile as some one believe. Looks like you enjoy your investment.

[LockedBreech]

If money wasn't an object, Wilson Combat. There really is no contest when it comes to 9mm 1911s. Theirs are the best and I haven't seen any compelling evidence otherwise.

Realistically, Dan Wesson is also very solid and a lot cheaper. But if you're wanting one for the rest of your life that will work very well, it's Wilson.

Fun fact, a full-featured Wilson full-size build is my all-time, permanent grail gun, paid for in cash. If I make it there in my life, I will know I have succeeded.

[Robinson]

If you want something really special go to the site link at the bottom of post #24 and then submit an order. :)

I agree with what has been said above about Wilson Combat -- if I was going to buy one of their guns it would probably be the Commander length instead of one of their 4" guns.

Dan Wesson hits a sweet spot as far as quality and value.

On the other hand, I've owned several Colt 9mm guns and generally they've been great. The Wiley Clapp models (also mentioned above) are pretty nice for the money.

[LockedBreech]

If you want something really special go to the site link at the bottom of post #24 and then submit an order. :)


Holy mackerel, not sure how I hadn't heard of Heirloom Precision before. A few follow-up googles and dang, that is some really amazing work.

Stop adding future expenses to my wallet please.

[JohnK]

You should really get in touch with Jerry Hammond and/or George Talia before you buy something. In stock Wilsons command a premium due to avoiding the wait. They have much better pricing than most anywhere else.


A properly built 9mm will run and run. This one has 6,727 rounds through it. All original springs, never cleaned, has had 3 stoppages due to junky ammo, and one where I apparently hit the slide stop before the mag was seated.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1911/i-CMQKRDb/0/443fe7ce/X3/16BB74EC-7159-40E2-B030-B2EF6930928C-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1911/i-3Xfwxcb/0/02572e03/X3/5638B6D6-760A-453D-BAC3-BDE1DE774FA7-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1911/i-qzGrwD7/0/302be43d/M/42CD1203-65C2-49AB-B2B3-EF915C6C5D3D-M.jpg

Eww... gross. I love it.

[M2CattleCo]

Spending >$3000 on a pistol would give me anxiety. I think I would have to clean it if for no other reason than to spend time with it. I can't imagine treating it like a Glock but I think you have proven they can be reliable and durable and not as fragile as some one believe. Looks like you enjoy your investment.

I've always ran 1911s like that. They like lube and don't care about much anything else.

[Kevin B.]

Fun fact, a full-featured Wilson full-size build is my all-time, permanent grail gun, paid for in cash.

This is precisely what I did when I retired; WC Tactical Supergrade. I could not be happier.

[LockedBreech]

This is precisely what I did when I retired; WC Tactical Supergrade. I could not be happier.

Role model, man! Role model!


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[TCFD273]

Exactly... it's wise to define how much you want to spend in order to find the 'best' within that price point.

I would listen to this gentleman. He knows a just little bit about 1911’s. Lol


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[Robinson]

Holy mackerel, not sure how I hadn't heard of Heirloom Precision before. A few follow-up googles and dang, that is some really amazing work.

Stop adding future expenses to my wallet please.

If you do decide that an Heirloom Precision gun will be one of your future expenses, here's some food for thought: Not posting pictures of such a project is grounds for being pummeled, PNGd, and possibly worse by the rest of us.


Oh, and... study up on Todd Green's history with 1911s to understand more about Mr. Burton's work. Sheesh already.

[TC215]

If money wasn't an object, Wilson Combat. There really is no contest when it comes to 9mm 1911s. Theirs are the best and I haven't seen any compelling evidence otherwise.

Realistically, Dan Wesson is also very solid and a lot cheaper. But if you're wanting one for the rest of your life that will work very well, it's Wilson.

Fun fact, a full-featured Wilson full-size build is my all-time, permanent grail gun, paid for in cash. If I make it there in my life, I will know I have succeeded.

This isn’t a knock on Wilson (I have another 9mm Commander on order with them now), but the last one I had (also a 9mm Commander) took two trips back to the factory before it would run. Their CS was very good and they were very nice, but it was a frustrating experience.

However, I have 10,000+ rounds through various Dan Wesson 9mm’s without issue (carried one on duty for several years). I really like the DW’s.

[MGW]

I asked about budget because in my opinion there are four price ranges for 1911’s. Less than $1k, $1500, $3000, and over $4,000. I’m a big Nighthawk fan because I’ve done a personal tour of their facility and have met several of their gunsmiths. If you buy a Nighthawk you can call the factory and talk to the guy that built it. If it breaks they will fix it. If it doesn’t run they will fix it. That being said not everyone wants to spend that on a pistol and I get that. I don’t currently own one myself.

But you can get yourself into a Nighthawk quality of gun if you are willing to be patient. There are several high quality gunsmiths out there that will work over a base gun for you and you’ll get exactly the gun you want in the same, or in sometimes less, price range as a Nighthawk.

I like Wilson’s but I’m not as big of a fan of their newer stuff. I feel like they’ve gotten away from what they built their reputation on a little bit. Bulletproof, highly accurate, traditional styled 1911’s. It’s personal preference and I won’t knock one of their pistols ever. I’ve considered an EDCX9 seriously several times and still might end up with one.

So I say all of that to get to my point. I think $1500 is the sweet spot for 1911’s. Their are tons of options in that price range. If you look long enough you can catch some really nice used pistols in that range that cost a lot more new. Off the shelf new Dan Wesson is a great value and by all accounts has great customer service.

The thing about 1911’s is all of them have the potential to need work out of the box. The less you spend the more likely you are to need the services of a gunsmith sooner rather than later. The key is to buy something with a solid frame and slide. The rest can be replaced. I still think Colt is a great value for a base gun. Any gunsmith will work on a Colt. The Colt competition pistol is a great value in my opinion. The recent ones I’ve seen have good frame to slide fit, decent triggers and sights, and seem to work.

I think if you are just getting into 1911’s you should start with a lower end Colt or Springer. Shoot the crap out of it. Figure out what you like about it and don’t. Figure out how to do basic maintenance on it. Figure out how to trouble shoot it when it breaks. If you’re real ambitious figure out how to fit and tune an extractor. Then later get the gun you really want or send your current pistol off and have it turned into what you want.

I’m far from an expert on 1911’s so take my opinion with a grain of salt. If you want new and can afford it buy a Wilson or Nighthawk. If you want new and have a lower budget get a Dan Wesson or shop for a used Professional. Or go budget and pick up something from a Colt or Springfield that checks your visual preferences and shoot it until it breaks. No matter what you decide they’re all a lot of fun.

[M2CattleCo]

Wilson has gotten into some uglier stuff lately, but they'll still build a no-frills working pistol.

This one is aluminum framed.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Wilson-Combat/i-bsNmXkQ/0/563890fc/X3/CC74DB3B-A11A-4278-AB0C-B51E733F004F-X3.jpg

[Duelist]

I have resisted these from the beginning but may need to reconsider. Interested in a 1911 in 9mm (yes I know real ones come in 45). My ideal one would be closer to the g19 size, something like the Springfield EMP 4 but open to suggestions. This role would be for edc (not replacing my glocks) but just like that as an option. Candidly it would be more of a range gun but I always like to have pistols that can be concealed carry as an option as I mentioned.

So what do you suggest and why? Pics are encouraged, who doesn’t like gun porn?

"What's the best?" No idea.

"What do [I] suggest?" I've handled a few, and shot exactly two. One was a Rock Island Armoty, and the other an STI. Neither was reliable out of the box. STI made their gun work after a return to the mothership. RIA? I don't know. The magazines seemed to be the culprit to my under experienced 1911 mind. The gun just wouldn't run reliably, even having trouble getting through a single magazine of FMJ. So between those STI was much better than that out of the box, and was made exceedingly reliable by its return visit home.

[Bucky]

I have a lot of rounds through 9mm 1911s, and I still have (what I think to be) two good ones, a Les Baer P2 and Cabot S100. While they are incredibly good / soft shooters, I personally have reservations about using one for defensive purposes. Considering how many tricks, tweaks, magazine designs, etc, that have been done to mate these two engineeringly incompatible cartridge / platform together, just gives me pause. Certainly open to feeling otherwise. The Cabot was purchased as a possible CCW gun.

[Evil_Ed]

Define 9mm? 9x19, or just something that launches bullets in the .355-356 size range?

.38 Super 1911s are pretty proven, and there's quite a few offerings out there from various makers. It generally doesn't suffer from some of the reliability problems that 9x19 1911s can suffer from, and ammo can have quite a bit more velocity than 9x19 in roughly the same bullet weight, all while shooting (in general) the same size bullets. True it does fall down with round selection; there's really only a few proper self defense rounds available for it (Winchester Silvertip, Cor-Bon, DoubleTap, Georgia Arms)...and you won't wander into your local Walmart and see 38 Super on the shelf.

[LSP552]

I’m sorry for the thread drift, but I’ve been internally debating the 9mm 1911 thing also. I’m just not convinced there is any 9mm 1911 that is reliable enough to carry without tweaks.

After handling a SIG 226 Legion SAO, that will likely be my next purchase. The only thing that has held me back is the lack of a smaller option. I’m anxiously waiting to see their recently announced 229 Legion SAO.

I love 1911s, and carried them at work until a fellow LSP Intel guy shot himself with his in a restaurant in New Orleans during Mardi Gras. That resulted in their disappearance from the plainclothes/UC list of options.

At my age, I’m not going to become a high-volume .45 ACP shooter again.

[Dismas316]

Thanks for all the great comments, as expected, very helpful. I think I have narrowed it down to Dan Wesson as a manufacture, not yet ready to step up to the Wilson and drop that kind of cash yet. That said, pretty interested in the newer ECP 9mm model but literally can’t find anything on it. (It appears pretty new variant from DW this year). Seems to be based off the ECO but slightly bigger barrel (4inch). The Valkyrie and Guardian are two others that have my interest as well but would but the ECP seems to hit all the areas exactly from size, weight, capacity, etc.

Anyone have any knowledge on the ECP, probably splitter hairs on this one but just curious.

[Bucky]

Define 9mm? 9x19, or just something that launches bullets in the .355-356 size range?

.38 Super 1911s are pretty proven, and there's quite a few offerings out there from various makers. It generally doesn't suffer from some of the reliability problems that 9x19 1911s can suffer from, and ammo can have quite a bit more velocity than 9x19 in roughly the same bullet weight, all while shooting (in general) the same size bullets. True it does fall down with round selection; there's really only a few proper self defense rounds available for it (Winchester Silvertip, Cor-Bon, DoubleTap, Georgia Arms)...and you won't wander into your local Walmart and see 38 Super on the shelf.

I don't want to speak for the OP, but I'm pretty sure we're talking about 9x19 guns.

Too bad 9x23 never caught on. Now that's a 1911 9mm round!

[Bucky]

Thanks for all the great comments, as expected, very helpful. I think I have narrowed it down to Dan Wesson as a manufacture, not yet ready to step up to the Wilson and drop that kind of cash yet.

Just curious, have you handled an EDC X9 yet? I'm totally smitten with mine. Designed to be a 9mm from the start. The bullet alignment to barrel is direct, much like a Beretta 92. I've yet to have an issue with mine, and if time permits, plan on doing the 2,000 round test with mine this winter.

I know it's more than the Dan Wesson you are looking at, but still lesser than many of the other Wilson offerings.

[TCFD273]

Just curious, have you handled an EDC X9 yet? I'm totally smitten with mine. Designed to be a 9mm from the start. The bullet alignment to barrel is direct, much like a Beretta 92. I've yet to have an issue with mine, and if time permits, plan on doing the 2,000 round test with mine this winter.

I know it's more than the Dan Wesson you are looking at, but still lesser than many of the other Wilson offerings.

There’s a used EDC X9 on Migunslingers.com right now.

I put about 1.5k rounds down one, was very reliable, just wasn’t my cup of tea.


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[HeavyDuty]

I’ve had two 9mm 1911s, both stock Colts in the 80s. They were each very finicky and turned me off to the loading in the platform.

Is there any validity to the Springfield EMP concept, where the action is resized for the 9mm’s length?

[Evil_Ed]

I don't want to speak for the OP, but I'm pretty sure we're talking about 9x19 guns.

Too bad 9x23 never caught on. Now that's a 1911 9mm round!

Yeah, probably, I was just trying to point out you can get similar/better performance from a 1911 set up to use a longer 9mm caliber cartridge, which avoids a lot of the reliability pitfalls that can plague 1911s chambered in shorter cartridges like 9x19mm :)

[Dismas316]

Just curious, have you handled an EDC X9 yet? I'm totally smitten with mine. Designed to be a 9mm from the start. The bullet alignment to barrel is direct, much like a Beretta 92. I've yet to have an issue with mine, and if time permits, plan on doing the 2,000 round test with mine this winter.

I know it's more than the Dan Wesson you are looking at, but still lesser than many of the other Wilson offerings.

No thank God, or I would have probably bought it on sight. :D I have thought about that one, just looking a bit more at the slightly thinner/lighter version of the single stack 1911. I am more a glock guy, especially for edc but if I were a big fan of a the 1911 (as I may become ) and were to carry one everyday, that's probably the one I'd get.

[Bucky]

Yeah, probably, I was just trying to point out you can get similar/better performance from a 1911 set up to use a longer 9mm caliber cartridge, which avoids a lot of the reliability pitfalls that can plague 1911s chambered in shorter cartridges like 9x19mm :)

Agree, 9x23 or .38 Super is a much better caliber for the standard 1911 platform (being as they were made specifically to fit it). However, due to their lack of popularity, ammunition availability is an issue, particularity in the mainstream premium self defense loadings.

Also, consider that in some instances, the .355 premium hollow point loaded in a .357 Sig round may not be the same as the exact weight bullet loaded in a 9mm. The .357 bullet is some instances is designed to work around the additional velocity. 9x23 had the potential to have even more velocity than .357 Sig.

[TCFD273]

Is there any validity to the Springfield EMP concept, where the action is resized for the 9mm’s length?

From what I’ve seen, 2 different models (not my guns), they are not reliable.

An acquaintance of mine was in a self defense shooting with a 9mm 1911. He took a round to the jaw, fired 3 rounds himself...and cleared 2 malfunctions. He knows 1 was a fail to fire and and thinks the other was a fail to return to battery. He carries a G19 now.


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[opmike]

An acquaintance of mine was in a self defense shooting with a 9mm 1911.

What kind of 1911? I'm sorry to hear about your acquaintance's injuries, but I'm not sure what we can glean from such an anecdote without more information.

[TCFD273]

What kind of 1911? I'm sorry to hear about your acquaintance's injuries, but I'm not sure what we can glean from such an anecdote without more information.

Brand-Kimber

I’m unsure of ammunition used.

We can chalk FTF up to ammunition, but in my experience 9mm 1911’s are ammunition sensitive. Hard primers are an absolute no go. Only 1 of my Wilson’s would reliably ignite CCI primers.

FTRTB-is common with 9mm 1911’s

Kimber is not a brand I recommend, and have told him that in the past.

9mm 1911’s in my opinion are not suitable for self defense for the average shooter, and someone that doesn’t have a desire to learn the platform and how to work on them.


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[TC215]

Brand-Kimber

I’m unsure of ammunition used.

We can chalk FTF up to ammunition, but in my experience 9mm 1911’s are ammunition sensitive. Hard primers are an absolute no go. Only 1 of my Wilson’s would reliably ignite CCI primers.

FTRTB-is common with 9mm 1911’s

Kimber is not a brand I recommend, and have told him that in the past.

9mm 1911’s in my opinion are not suitable for self defense for the average shooter, and someone that doesn’t have a desire to learn the platform and how to work on them.


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That’s probably a Kimber issue, not a 9mm issue.

Like I posted earlier, I’ve had numerous 9mm 1911’s (at least 7), and the only one I had an issue with was a Wilson that went back to the factory, and it worked fine after they fixed what was out of spec. I’ve never had an issue with any of the DW’s, and I’ve shot them a good bit (I started shooting 9mm 1911’s in 2011, and shot them almost exclusively for several years). I had no reservations about carrying them on duty, and will probably do so again in the near future.

[StraitR]

I’ve had two 9mm 1911s, both stock Colts in the 80s. They were each very finicky and turned me off to the loading in the platform.

Is there any validity to the Springfield EMP concept, where the action is resized for the 9mm’s length?

Keep in mind, saying "1911" is not like saying "Glock", in that a Glock is a Glock, it works or it doesn't. A 1911 is not "a 1911, it works or it doesn't". They are all different, where each maker puts their own spin on it with their own manufacturing practices (dimensions, tolerances, all drop in vs hand fitting, QA and QC etc). A mediocre quality Govt 45 may work fine, but a similar quality 9mm likely won't. It's not a matter of "9mm doesn't work in 1911's", because as many people here have shown, they do, you just have to accept that it takes more than Glock money to get into a maker that has figured out the recipe and cares enough to make it right.

You said you've tried two Colts, and they left a bad taste in your mouth. I'm not going to say Colt is poor quality, but they've also chosen not to innovate where others have, and still to this day do not use a ramped barrel in their 9mm offerings. End of the world? No, but DW and Wilson both do, and they seem to have a better record of reliable 9mm's. You didn't ask for my advice, so I don't expect you to take it, but if you want to wash that bad taste out of your mouth, stick with a DW or Wilson in 9mm, and leave pistols such as the EMP alone.

[TCFD273]

That’s probably a Kimber issue, not a 9mm issue.

Like I posted earlier, I’ve had numerous 9mm 1911’s (at least 7), and the only one I had an issue with was a Wilson that went back to the factory, and it worked fine after they fixed what was out of spec. I’ve never had an issue with any of the DW’s, and I’ve shot them a good bit (I started shooting 9mm 1911’s in 2011, and shot them almost exclusively for several years). I had no reservations about carrying them on duty, and will probably do so again in the near future.

I wish my experience with them mirrored yours. The only one I have left is a Supergrade.

A few years back I attended a Hackathorn class. If I recall correctly, there was at least 10 9mm 1911’s in the class. Over 3 days, no malfunctions with any of them. Maybe I just have bad luck with them!

If I was inclined to go back to the 9mm 1911 platform, it would be the EDC X9. I sold mine to a family member after a few months of owning it. He wanted it a lot more than I did, lol.


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[TOTS]

I can personally recommend both Dan Wesson Valors and Colt Wiley Clapps. That’s what I decided on and where my money went. Over 2000+ on the Colt and a little less on the DW. 100% reliable on factory ammo of several types and weights and zero issues on my 124 gr reloads that weren’t a QC issue. Ie my fault. I don’t see why people have the issues they do with these (1911s in general and the 9mms we’re discussing); I have only bought middle of the road models (nothing lower quality than a Springfield RO and nothing higher than the Valor) and would trust my life to all that I have owned. The ability to shoot the round in the chamber followed by 350 more in one session (Valor 9mm) is good enough for me.

[Balisong]

There’s a used EDC X9 on Migunslingers.com right now.

I put about 1.5k rounds down one, was very reliable, just wasn’t my cup of tea.


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Would you mind expanding on your experience with it? I haven't seen too many reviews, especially negative ones yet and I'm very curious about this gun, since it's 1911ish but double stack 9mm

[Ichiban]

Thanks for all the great comments, as expected, very helpful. I think I have narrowed it down to Dan Wesson as a manufacture, not yet ready to step up to the Wilson and drop that kind of cash yet. That said, pretty interested in the newer ECP 9mm model but literally can’t find anything on it. (It appears pretty new variant from DW this year). Seems to be based off the ECO but slightly bigger barrel (4inch). The Valkyrie and Guardian are two others that have my interest as well but would but the ECP seems to hit all the areas exactly from size, weight, capacity, etc.

Anyone have any knowledge on the ECP, probably splitter hairs on this one but just curious.

The ECP sure looks interesting. With the bull barrel I bet the muzzle flip in nearly non-existent. I can see this ending up costing me a some money.

I think it was mentioned earlier, the Valkyrie is out of production but I've heard that the Vigil is a very close fit for it. I have the Guardian and Valkyrie commanders (in 9mm and .45) but for some reason I can't shoot the Guardian very well. Others shoot it very well but for some reason it just doesn't like me. The Valkyries are great shooters. Really hard to go wrong with any Dan Wesson.

[TCFD273]

Would you mind expanding on your experience with it? I haven't seen too many reviews, especially negative ones yet and I'm very curious about this gun, since it's 1911ish but double stack 9mm

If you’re a dedicated 1911 shooter, it is THE gun for everyday carry.

Same size as a G19, grip similar to a Beretta, good trigger, great ergos, softer shooting than a G19, and reliable.

I lubed it 1x and put close to 1k rounds through it. It was pouring rain one day, and I decided to go shooting with it. Not a single malfunction, but broke the gun down and cleaned it.

I’m a fan of the Xtac grip pattern, I have a 45 xtac. I find the pattern doesn’t chew my hands up as much as 20lpi or 25lpi but gives excellent traction.

I, like many on here, have several bench mark tests I run handguns through. It just didn’t do anything “better” than what I was carrying. But, if I was still a dedicated 1911 guy, I wouldn’t have sold it.


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[StraitR]

The "Gun Guys" series is worth a watch for any "gun guy", particularly 1911 fans. In it, there are several instances of similar comments about compact and 9mm 1911's, but this statement from Bill says it all...

"In the 1911 platform, I am personally convinced, based on the number of rounds I've shot in the various guns I've shot, you can build a more reliable 9mm 1911 than you can a 45." - Bill Wilson

Others are welcome to disagree, but that's good enough for me.

I can't seem to embed the video without it starting at the beginning, so I linked the video to start at the quote (8:10 mark). It's about a 15 second time commitment.

https://youtu.be/odbb8IrROz4?t=8m10s

[Bucky]

The "Gun Guys" series is worth a watch for any "gun guy", particularly 1911 fans. In it, there are several instances of similar comments about compact and 9mm 1911's, but this statement from Bill says it all...

"In the 1911 platform, I am personally convinced, based on the number of rounds I've shot in the various guns I've shot, you can build a more reliable 9mm 1911 than you can a 45." - Bill Wilson

Others are welcome to disagree, but that's good enough for me.

I can't seem to embed the video without it starting at the beginning, so I linked the video to start at the quote (8:10 mark). It's about a 15 second time commitment.

https://youtu.be/odbb8IrROz4?t=8m10s

A quote by someone in the business of selling compact 9mm 1911s. Perhaps his opinion is biased?

[Bucky]

Would you mind expanding on your experience with it? I haven't seen too many reviews, especially negative ones yet and I'm very curious about this gun, since it's 1911ish but double stack 9mm

If you don’t mind my opinion, I’m a 1911 fan and I love my EDC X9. HOWEVER, the EDC X9 shoots noticeable different than a traditional 1911 or even a 2011. Not better, or worse, just different. Therefore, it did take some time to get used to it. One thing I noticed, if you want it to point more like a 1911, get the large back strap. I ordered one for mine, and it did feel more “familiar” to me. However, I’d eventually go back to the small, and just become accustomed to its different ness.

[M2CattleCo]

Five years ago I'd have called him crazy.

Today, I don't doubt it. Granted, there are caveats to that statement, namely, I think *Wilson can do it, not that a 9mm 1911 is in any way more inherently reliable than one built for a COAL length of the 45/38S.

A 9mm 1911 magazine that interfaces with the ramped barrel like the Wilson ETM and Metalform FR/Leatham mags feed very well and are super resistant to inertia feeding.

[StraitR]

A quote by someone in the business of selling compact 9mm 1911s. Perhaps his opinion is biased?

Do you really think this is a shill? Does Wilson not sell 45acp 1911's, in all sizes? How about full-size and traditional commander 9mm 1911's? What's the gain by picking one over the other? He could say, like the rest of the internet would lead you to believe, that he thinks the Govt 45 is the most reliable 1911. He still wins by selling guns, no? He didn't say, "My EDC X9 runs more reliably", he said 9mm. If you watch episode 9, you will see Bill's three 1911's he uses most, and for what purposes, according to him. Two are CQB-E compact 9mm's, the other is an EDC X9.

[M2CattleCo]

A quote by someone in the business of selling compact 9mm 1911s. Perhaps his opinion is biased?

He also sells 'em in 45 and 38 Super. He can have any combination of Wilson gun, ammo, and magazines and he chooses to carry a 4" 9mm.

[Bucky]

Do you really think this is a shill? Does Wilson not sell 45acp 1911's, in all sizes? How about full-size and traditional commander 9mm 1911's? What's the gain by picking one over the other? He could say, like the rest of the internet would lead you to believe, that he thinks the Govt 45 is the most reliable 1911. He still wins by selling guns, no? He didn't say, "My EDC X9 runs more reliably", he said 9mm. If you watch episode 9, you will see Bill's three 1911's he uses most, and for what purposes, according to him. Two are CQB-E compact 9mm's, the other is an EDC X9.

Shill, no? Partially biased, perhaps. He is more a pioneer in the 9mm markets these days, and has more a share of that market.

I’m certainly have no I’ll will against him, and am a HUGE fan of the EDC X9, if that wasn’t readily apparent.

[Totem Polar]

Dan Wesson and Wilson Combat have 9mm 1911’s figured out better than anyone else.

Dude, I'm gonna call you out on this thread. Where TF are your pics of the custom shop DW you had built? :D

There is an option in between box stock DW and Wilson, and it looks a lot like this:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v699/tgarrison/11D633D9-3EB2-49D8-9752-F1A9CA05C08F_zpswqfl0xlz.jpg


Having the DW custom shop work up a 9mm 1911 on a commander-size frame makes sense as a bridge between the 1500 and 3k slots. JMO.

Just ask TC215.

;)

[TC215]

Ha, that was a great gun, and one that I really regret selling. I’ve thought about having them build me another a few times.

[Jay585]

Dude, I'm gonna call you out on this thread. Where TF are your pics of the custom shop DW you had built? :D

There is an option in between box stock DW and Wilson, and it looks a lot like this:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v699/tgarrison/11D633D9-3EB2-49D8-9752-F1A9CA05C08F_zpswqfl0xlz.jpg


Having the DW custom shop work up a 9mm 1911 on a commander-size frame makes sense as a bridge between the 1500 and 3k slots. JMO.

Just ask TC215.

;)

How does that process work?

I like their new TCP (http://danwessonfirearms.com/product/tcp/) but prefer the more traditional look. The TCP 9mm has the light rail alloy frame that I'd like but has that new age space force look to it.

Clicking on "custom" tells you to contact them, but no price/options list given (that I saw).

[Balisong]

If you’re a dedicated 1911 shooter, it is THE gun for everyday carry.

Same size as a G19, grip similar to a Beretta, good trigger, great ergos, softer shooting than a G19, and reliable.

I lubed it 1x and put close to 1k rounds through it. It was pouring rain one day, and I decided to go shooting with it. Not a single malfunction, but broke the gun down and cleaned it.

I’m a fan of the Xtac grip pattern, I have a 45 xtac. I find the pattern doesn’t chew my hands up as much as 20lpi or 25lpi but gives excellent traction.

I, like many on here, have several bench mark tests I run handguns through. It just didn’t do anything “better” than what I was carrying. But, if I was still a dedicated 1911 guy, I wouldn’t have sold it.


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Thank you good sir!
I'm a little surprised it didn't do anything better for you. I figured maybe splits and accuracy would be a little easier/better than most guns.... but as we know, Indian and arrow and all that.

I still can't help being fascinated by that gun, and more and more into "normal" 9mm 1911s as well. The DW Guardian is also calling to me. Those grips may not be the most practical but they're stunning.

[TC215]

How does that process work?

I like their new TCP (http://danwessonfirearms.com/product/tcp/) but prefer the more traditional look. The TCP 9mm has the light rail alloy frame that I'd like but has that new age space force look to it.

Clicking on "custom" tells you to contact them, but no price/options list given (that I saw).

Email keith@cz-USA.com. He is the main man at DW and handles all the custom orders.

[OlongJohnson]

FWIW, Keith has told me that for relatively simple customization (e.g., Duty Treat and bluing of certain components), you're better off buying a standard production gun and sending it back to them for rework. You'll likely be able to buy the gun for less money, and get a faster turnaround on mods than you would waiting for a full custom build. If you pay for a full custom build, you're paying full retail for the whole package. Also, you have the opportunity to do the break-in before the mods. For example, if you wanted an all-black Silverback, you'd burnish the rails on the slide by performing the break-in before sending it back and having the Duty Treat applied. It's also a chance to apply some initial wear to the gun, which the custom shop can inspect and make sure everything is as it should be.

[TCFD273]

Thank you good sir!
I'm a little surprised it didn't do anything better for you. I figured maybe splits and accuracy would be a little easier/better than most guns.... but as we know, Indian and arrow and all that.

I still can't help being fascinated by that gun, and more and more into "normal" 9mm 1911s as well. The DW Guardian is also calling to me. Those grips may not be the most practical but they're stunning.

I split Glocks and 1911’s the fastest, then Beretta. But it’s splitting hairs.

Accuracy-I can shoot 3-4” groups offhand at 25 with all 3 platforms listed above. I’m not the best at group shooting. With a little time on each I can shoot 90 or better on Defoor’s pistol test, and keep them all in the black on “The Test”.

Dot Drill-I shoot Berettas the best, 1911’s then Glock.

Now I spent 9yrs on Glocks, 4yrs on 1911’s and the past 3 primarily on Beretta. I’ve become a better shooter over the years, and I’m sure if I went back to 1911’s full time I’d shoot them just as well as a Beretta.


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[M2CattleCo]

I've spent serious time with 1911s, Beretta M9s, Sig P226&239 (9mm), and Glock 9mms.

Outside of slow fire accuracy a 1911 doesn't offer any performance advantage to me. The advantage I get is that they are significantly easier for me to carry and conceal than a thicker, blockier pistol, and I'm familiar with a 5" 1911 on a primal level. It's like my first language.

[TCFD273]

I've spent serious time with 1911s, Beretta M9s, Sig P226&239 (9mm), and Glock 9mms.

Outside of slow fire accuracy a 1911 doesn't offer any performance advantage to me. The advantage I get is that they are significantly easier for me to carry and conceal than a thicker, blockier pistol, and I'm familiar with a 5" 1911 on a primal level. It's like my first language.

Yep. After attending a builders course, I built 2, 5” 45’s on JEM frames and slides. Proud to say they both run exceptionally well.

That’s why I posted above that you needed to be a serious student of the 1911 platform, especially a 9mm, to carry them. My opinion of course.


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[hufnagel]

putting on my asbestos undies for this but...

I've got Colt Competition 1911's (a 9 and a 45) on my list of future gun purchases. I chose them after finger banging about a dozen different makes/models at a gun store a while back, and the Colt's just felt "right" to me.

[Oleman]

I looked and read a lot before I bought a 1911, after a lot of thought I bought a Dan Wesson. Looked for deals first then when I finally understood what a difference in a 1911 like this was versus upgrading a cheaper one I bought it and never looked back. I broke it in per instructions and have never had a problem with it and it is a pleasure to shoot.

[Robinson]

putting on my asbestos undies for this but...

I've got Colt Competition 1911's (a 9 and a 45) on my list of future gun purchases. I chose them after finger banging about a dozen different makes/models at a gun store a while back, and the Colt's just felt "right" to me.

You shouldn't need the asbestos undies. The Competition models are generally good to go. Nothing really special, but solid guns for the most part. The Series 70 versions have slightly better triggers than the Series 80 versions they replaced.

[jamautry]

I am seriously looking at the new redesigned STI 9mm tactical after listening to a few YouTube videos. Apparently STI has brought in all new senior management as well as some of their original gunsmiths, like Dave Dawson to revive the brand. Their new focus is on defensive firearms as well as cleaning up QC issues. The result is the new tactical. Apparently a number of agencies including a Federal Agency and LAPD SWAT have been testing them all summer with very positive results. They have also redesigned the magazines with a new follower design. The specs for the gun are:

BARREL - 4.15 inch Bull BarrelFINISH - Diamond Like Carbon - Black ColorMAGAZINES - 1 each, 126mm & 140mm - Teflon CoatedSIGHTS - Tritium Fixed Ledge Rear, Tritium FrontGRIP - Tree Bark Texture 2011[emoji768] Grip - Black ColorOTHER - Recoil Master, Tactical Slim Magwell, Picatinny Railed Frame

Here is a link to one of the YouTube vodeos:

https://youtu.be/ZjO1RCFLokQ



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[msh]

I ended up picking up a DW specialist commander for this reason last Fall. Sexy gun and it runs well enough to carry.

The big issue I had was finding a carry holster I really liked for it. This may continue to be an issue for a lot of the non-standard length guns, those with huge rails, or you insist on carrying it with a light attached.

I am excited to try the new 4" DW guns. Springfield I think has some 4" guns and there seemed to be more holster support for those.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180903/4639dbab51d96ae1151ad8e3f5686204.jpg

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[Dismas316]

OP here, Oh man my impatience is getting the better of me. Usually the strong urge will subside in a day or so but not this time. It appears that the DW ECP is not yet shipping, or at least I can’t find any via the google. So I have gravitated pretty strongly to the guardian. Seems the vast majority of reviews are not just good but fantastic, with the exception of Iciban in post 59, but not exactly a bad review.

Call me weird but just not the biggest fan of the wood grips, kind of sacrilege to the traditionalist. But then again we are taking 1911’s in 9mm and less that 5 inch government model so I would imagine the traditionalist are just wincing through this thread. Lol

It’s bad when I am picking out the VZ grips, extra mags and holster. Hopeing to make it through the day with out dropping cash but not looking to good. I need help...

[HeavyDuty]

Just curious, have you handled an EDC X9 yet? I'm totally smitten with mine. Designed to be a 9mm from the start. The bullet alignment to barrel is direct, much like a Beretta 92. I've yet to have an issue with mine, and if time permits, plan on doing the 2,000 round test with mine this winter.

I know it's more than the Dan Wesson you are looking at, but still lesser than many of the other Wilson offerings.

I just looked this up after seeing a pic of one in another thread. What’s the grip circumference like?

[Bucky]

I just looked this up after seeing a pic of one in another thread. What’s the grip circumference like?

It's very roundish, with the small back strap installed. The large gives it that more back to front width, that has a more 1911 feel to it. Larger hands will probably much prefer it, I would imagine.

I could take measurements if you like. Perhaps I'll do some comparisons with other double stack guns I have to see what is the closest comparison in feel.

[Robinson]

Call me weird but just not the biggest fan of the wood grips, kind of sacrilege to the traditionalist. But then again we are taking 1911’s in 9mm and less that 5 inch government model so I would imagine the traditionalist are just wincing through this thread. Lol

Yeah the grip safety and trigger on the Vigil aren't really traditional either, but I don't think it matters. I've been tempted by the Vigil in the Lightweight Government 9mm version as well.

When it comes to being traditionalists, there probably aren't many on this forum who rate looks over function. I will admit to owning 1911s in a more traditional format just because I like them, but when it comes to the guns I carry or use for home defense what matters is that they work properly.

[Bucky]

I just looked this up after seeing a pic of one in another thread. What’s the grip circumference like?

I'm going to take some measurements later on today. In the meantime, I've created this thread (which is where I'll later post measurements).

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?32795-EDC-X9-versus-GLOCK-19-Size-comparisons&p=782063#post782063

[Trigger]

I don't want to speak for the OP, but I'm pretty sure we're talking about 9x19 guns.

Too bad 9x23 never caught on. Now that's a 1911 9mm round!

I have a custom 9x23 built off of a Les Baer donor. It is a really fun gun to shoot. Quite a capable round, I have measured 1525 FPS across my cronograph for Winchester’s 125 practice and Silvertip loads. That said, if you go that route, you need a good 1911 gunsmith who knows their business. Ed Cameron built or rebuilt 6 1911s for me, and that man really knows what it takes to make a 1911 run well. For the 9x23, that meant a square firing pin stop, tuned springs, specific barrel fit and link for deep lug engagement. Proper bridge cut for delinking.

Ed found that both my Les Baers had oval link holes (cut with a file) and improper bridge cut dimensions. He had to do some fixing before hand fitting Kart barrels the old fashioned way. I’m not a fan of Les Baers because of that now. I have looked at others that also had oval holes in the barrel link.

I agree that Wilson and Dan Wesson are outstanding factory custom guns. But if you want special, having a smith build a custom 1911 for you is the way to go. Special dehorning, ball end mill cuts, weld on mag wells, French borders, checkering, favorite sights, finishes and engraving. Find a good Smith, have a discussion and be prepared to wait. I went with Ed because he was local to me, does great work, and short wait times.

That said, there is one issue with 9mm 1911s. The John Moses Browning (PBUH) 1911 design is optimized for cartridge OAL of 1.25”. The 9mm length of 1.15” causes functioning issues, and makes magazine selection finicky and important. This is why 38 Super and 9x23 work better in 1911s. If you pick a manufacturer or smith who understands this, your pistol will run fine.

This is also why I detoured into CZ pistols, because they run 9mm ammo better that 1911s — they were designed for 9mm length cartridges. A tuned Shadow, Shadow2, or TacSport is a thing of beauty to shoot, and shoots like a 1911.

Dive in and enjoy!

[MGW]

I ended up picking up a DW specialist commander for this reason last Fall. Sexy gun and it runs well enough to carry.

The big issue I had was finding a carry holster I really liked for it. This may continue to be an issue for a lot of the non-standard length guns, those with huge rails, or you insist on carrying it with a light attached.

I am excited to try the new 4" DW guns. Springfield I think has some 4" guns and there seemed to be more holster support for those.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180903/4639dbab51d96ae1151ad8e3f5686204.jpg

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I’m not typically a stainless fan but this is really nice. I didn’t know it was available in 9mm. What are your thoughts about it?

[Balisong]

I ended up picking up a DW specialist commander for this reason last Fall. Sexy gun and it runs well enough to carry.

The big issue I had was finding a carry holster I really liked for it. This may continue to be an issue for a lot of the non-standard length guns, those with huge rails, or you insist on carrying it with a light attached.

I am excited to try the new 4" DW guns. Springfield I think has some 4" guns and there seemed to be more holster support for those.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180903/4639dbab51d96ae1151ad8e3f5686204.jpg

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That's a beautiful set! As far as the magwell, safety, and slide release, I see they are nice and shiny. Are they hardchromed?

[tcba_joe]

I am seriously looking at the new redesigned STI 9mm tactical after listening to a few YouTube videos. Apparently STI has brought in all new senior management as well as some of their original gunsmiths, like Dave Dawson to revive the brand. Their new focus is on defensive firearms as well as cleaning up QC issues. The result is the new tactical. Apparently a number of agencies including a Federal Agency and LAPD SWAT have been testing them all summer with very positive results. They have also redesigned the magazines with a new follower design. The specs for the gun are:

BARREL - 4.15 inch Bull BarrelFINISH - Diamond Like Carbon - Black ColorMAGAZINES - 1 each, 126mm & 140mm - Teflon CoatedSIGHTS - Tritium Fixed Ledge Rear, Tritium FrontGRIP - Tree Bark Texture 2011[emoji768] Grip - Black ColorOTHER - Recoil Master, Tactical Slim Magwell, Picatinny Railed Frame

Here is a link to one of the YouTube vodeos:

https://youtu.be/ZjO1RCFLokQ



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I've been wanting a railed 9mm STI 2011 for a while and this one has basically everything I wanted.

Not that I'll ever be able to afford one, but is anyone making a duty type holster for one with an RDS?

[timotab]

I've spent serious time with 1911s, Beretta M9s, Sig P226&239 (9mm), and Glock 9mms.

Outside of slow fire accuracy a 1911 doesn't offer any performance advantage to me. The advantage I get is that they are significantly easier for me to carry and conceal than a thicker, blockier pistol, and I'm familiar with a 5" 1911 on a primal level. It's like my first language.

On your more recent Wilson 9mm 1911's, are they using barrels with a single upper lug now? I had heard so and it was a factor in their improved reliability.

[Sensei]

I was told last week that my 5” CQB Elite 9mm is being kitted and will be ready in 6-8 weeks. This will have a concealment beaver tail safety, round butt mag well, reverse crown barrel, and Ameriglo HD front sight. It is pretty close to the inflection point of diminishing returns in the cost-benefit analysis for a full-sized, hard duty use 9mm 1911.

This will probably be the last handgun I ever buy until the phased plasma pistol in the 40-watt range becomes available.

[JSGlock34]

I was told last week that my 5” CQB Elite 9mm is being kitted and will be ready in 6-8 weeks. This will have a concealment beaver tail safety, round butt mag well, reverse crown barrel, and Ameriglo HD front sight...

That sounds familiar...nice choices. Once the Ameriglo front sight is slimmed down to .125", I'll join you with that option...

[msh]

That's a beautiful set! As far as the magwell, safety, and slide release, I see they are nice and shiny. Are they hardchromed?Harrison custom slide stop and safety in stainless. Also swapped out stock front sight for a narrow Dawson fiber optic.

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[msh]

Great gun. Im becoming quite fond of 9mm 1911s. Would have preferred duty finish but got a good deal on it used and jumped on it.

The rail is annoying. Cuts up the holsters I do have and prevented me from finding a good carry holster that handles weight of the gun.

If I picked up one for dedicated carry it would be aluminum frame with no rail.
I’m not typically a stainless fan but this is really nice. I didn’t know it was available in 9mm. What are your thoughts about it?

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[TC215]

OP here, Oh man my impatience is getting the better of me. Usually the strong urge will subside in a day or so but not this time. It appears that the DW ECP is not yet shipping, or at least I can’t find any via the google. So I have gravitated pretty strongly to the guardian. Seems the vast majority of reviews are not just good but fantastic, with the exception of Iciban in post 59, but not exactly a bad review.

Call me weird but just not the biggest fan of the wood grips, kind of sacrilege to the traditionalist. But then again we are taking 1911’s in 9mm and less that 5 inch government model so I would imagine the traditionalist are just wincing through this thread. Lol

It’s bad when I am picking out the VZ grips, extra mags and holster. Hopeing to make it through the day with out dropping cash but not looking to good. I need help...

I’ve owned a bunch of handguns, and I think around around 30 1911’s, and the 9mm Guardian is my all-time favorite. I don’t think you can go wrong there.


I was told last week that my 5” CQB Elite 9mm is being kitted and will be ready in 6-8 weeks. This will have a concealment beaver tail safety, round butt mag well, reverse crown barrel, and Ameriglo HD front sight. It is pretty close to the inflection point of diminishing returns in the cost-benefit analysis for a full-sized, hard duty use 9mm 1911.

This will probably be the last handgun I ever buy until the phased plasma pistol in the 40-watt range becomes available.

6-8 weeks? My commander kitted in early April and I’m still waiting on it.

[M2CattleCo]

On your more recent Wilson 9mm 1911's, are they using barrels with a single upper lug now? I had heard so and it was a factor in their improved reliability.



No, they have the normal two radial lugs but have a Wilson/Nowlin ramp.

The EDC9 has the single upper lug.

[Sensei]

6-8 weeks? My commander kitted in early April and I’m still waiting on it.

I can only go with what I’m being told. My initial order was placed on 8/7 and I was quoted a 6-8 month build time. Lo and behold, I get an email last Thursday from Kevin Hutchison that my order was ready to kit and they needed my verbal or written approval to proceed with a 6-8 week average build time. This surprised me a little and made me replan my financing strategy since my Spitzer Account was already dedicated to Colombian hookers and blow for the next couple months.

Anyway, I have no reason to doubt them on the 6-8 weeks. My last Wilson took about 8 weeks once kitted. The variable delay for me has always been the wait to to get to the bench. My Colt CCU was sent to Wilson back in March and only recently began its work. From what I can tell, their employees specialize in specific portions on the build making the pre-build wait highly variable based on what you plan to have done.

[TC215]

Yeah, I was initially quoted 6-8 months as well. Which is fine, it gave me more time to pay for it. I’m hoping it comes sometime this month.

[TCFD273]

Anyway, I have no reason to doubt them on the 6-8 weeks. My last Wilson took about 8 weeks once kitted. The variable delay for me has always been the wait to to get to the bench. My Colt CCU was sent to Wilson back in March and only recently began its work. From what I can tell, their employees specialize in specific portions on the build making the pre-build wait highly variable based on what you plan to have done.

They build in batches. Kitting means all parts are in a bin, and it moves from station to station being built.

I’ve had a gun kitted the same day it was ordered. Just depends what they have on hand and currently building...frame/slide length/ball cuts etc.

Only Supergrades are done individually, by one Smith.


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[Bucky]

No, they have the normal two radial lugs but have a Wilson/Nowlin ramp.

The EDC9 has the single upper lug.

And the EDC X9 has no internal lugs, the barrel locks into the ejection port ala Glock.

[Dismas316]

Winner!! You have to love GB. Got the new Guardian 9mm at decent price. I know many recommend the Wilson combat ETM mags but don’t see the 9 round flush fitting mag (guardian is 9+1). Anyone know the most reliable 9 round flush fitting mags? Mec Gar is usually good but obviously 1911 tend to be picky. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

I’ll send the real pic when I pick it up, in the meantime this is the best I can do. I think I’m warming up to the grips, although the double diamond rosewood looks nice.

[Pepper]

Winner!! You have to love GB. Got the new Guardian 9mm at decent price. I know many recommend the Wilson combat ETM mags but don’t see the 9 round flush fitting mag (guardian is 9+1). Anyone know the most reliable 9 round flush fitting mags? Mec Gar is usually good but obviously 1911 tend to be picky. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

I’ll send the real pic when I pick it up, in the meantime this is the best I can do. I think I’m warming up to the grips, although the double diamond rosewood looks nice.

I use Ed Brown: https://www.edbrown.com/product/9mm-magazine/ They are on sale, but the shipping is a little steep.

[Bigghoss]

You have to love GB.

I don't know how many times I've thrown out a what-the-heck bid thinking for sure I'd get out bid and ended up winning.

[TC215]

Winner!! You have to love GB. Got the new Guardian 9mm at decent price. I know many recommend the Wilson combat ETM mags but don’t see the 9 round flush fitting mag (guardian is 9+1). Anyone know the most reliable 9 round flush fitting mags? Mec Gar is usually good but obviously 1911 tend to be picky. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

I’ll send the real pic when I pick it up, in the meantime this is the best I can do. I think I’m warming up to the grips, although the double diamond rosewood looks nice.

I’ve had good luck with the OEM mags. I’ve also used Metalform without issue.

The current generation of Wilson ETM mags are probably the best 9mm mags on the market, but like you said, they don’t fit flush.

[M2CattleCo]

I've been having reliability equal to the ETMs with Metalform Leatham mags. They feed ball and HST as well as the ETMs but I have had to tune a couple of followers to keep it from jumping the slide stop, but in fairness, I've had to tune a couple of ETMs as well.

I used this guy for Sig mags in the past and got the Metalforms from him as well. Super fast shipping. I called him to add a couple more mags an hour after I ordered and he had already dropped the box off at the post office.



http://gregcotellc.com/cart/1911-metalform-magazines-c-182/metalfrom-1911-government-commander-9mm-9-rd-stainless-9fr794-p-1858.html

[OlongJohnson]

Okay, I've been OCDing for too many weeks. Someone talk me into or out of a $1200 stainless Valor Commander.

[Dismas316]

I used this guy for Sig mags in the past and got the Metalforms from him as well. Super fast shipping. I called him to add a couple more mags an hour after I ordered and he had already dropped the box off at the post office.



http://gregcotellc.com/cart/1911-metalform-magazines-c-182/metalfrom-1911-government-commander-9mm-9-rd-stainless-9fr794-p-1858.html


I've used him a good bit in the past for my sig mags as well. Just ordered some from him.

[Robinson]

I've been having reliability equal to the ETMs with Metalform Leatham mags. They feed ball and HST as well as the ETMs but I have had to tune a couple of followers to keep it from jumping the slide stop, but in fairness, I've had to tune a couple of ETMs as well.

I used this guy for Sig mags in the past and got the Metalforms from him as well. Super fast shipping. I called him to add a couple more mags an hour after I ordered and he had already dropped the box off at the post office.



http://gregcotellc.com/cart/1911-metalform-magazines-c-182/metalfrom-1911-government-commander-9mm-9-rd-stainless-9fr794-p-1858.html

Are the Leatham mags very different from standard Metalform mags? I ask because I had a bunch of Metalform 9mm mags at one point and they worked fine except several started failing to lock the slide back on empty after a few hundred rounds.

[Bigghoss]

Okay, I've been OCDing for too many weeks. Someone talk me into or out of a $1200 stainless Valor Commander.

What the heck else are you going to do with $1200? It's not like you'll sit around with your sweet new gun wishing you hadn't bought it.

[ccssid]

What the heck else are you going to do with $1200? It's not like you'll sit around with your sweet new gun wishing you hadn't bought it.Go get that Valor......

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[Dismas316]

Okay, I've been OCDing for too many weeks. Someone talk me into or out of a $1200 stainless Valor Commander.

I think you're in the wrong place to be talked out of sweet firearm. Of course coming from a guy that took about 3 days of jonesing for a 1911 and found myself on GB bidding on one. Go getcha one. I'm impressed you lasted "weeks"

[OlongJohnson]

It's been a recurring itch since Valkyries were clearing out for $1300 back at Christmas. Handled one, liked it a lot. But I worry enough about wearing out aluminum frames on classic Sigs and third-gen Smiths. Don't need that worry on a $1300 gun, so I was able to leave it.

I keep orbiting back to the idea of the steel version like a wantsy comet. I like Duty Treat better than plain stainless, but those haven't gone on clearance. The price differential is about $450 or so, which is basically the same as getting a stainless gun retro-coated back at DW if you want. That could be done after breaking it in so the slide rails are nice and burnished, and one could have any minor contouring or melting of edges done prior to the Duty Treat. Or you could just save the money and run it stainless, while wishing it was the Duty Treat version.

Sufficient ambiguity to support a substantial amount of waffling. And then, I have several 3953s that aren't quite the same thing but do check a lot of the boxes the Valor Commander checks for a carry gun, and check some other important ones that a 1911 doesn't. Frankly, I'd probably feel more confident with a 3953 or USPc LEM in a holster than with a 1911.

On the other hand, I've had some medical problems with my hands this year and have put off dry firing and range time as a result. An all-steel, light-recoiling 9mm might keep me shooting through such scenarios. But so does thumb-cocking a TDA, and the USPc can be carried in Condition 1.

Clearly a case of want, not need. First world problem all the way.

[Bigghoss]

I've been really wanting a a commander and government length stainless specialist.

[blake_g]

Holy mackerel, not sure how I hadn't heard of Heirloom Precision before. A few follow-up googles and dang, that is some really amazing work.

Stop adding future expenses to my wallet please.

How dare you Sir... :cool:

[Balisong]

Winner!! You have to love GB. Got the new Guardian 9mm at decent price. I know many recommend the Wilson combat ETM mags but don’t see the 9 round flush fitting mag (guardian is 9+1). Anyone know the most reliable 9 round flush fitting mags? Mec Gar is usually good but obviously 1911 tend to be picky. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

I’ll send the real pic when I pick it up, in the meantime this is the best I can do. I think I’m warming up to the grips, although the double diamond rosewood looks nice.

Damn I'm jealous! I absolutely love those grips, from an aesthetic standpoint. I've never handled one. Bit I'm thinking I'll eventually "need" one of those.

May I ask what you paid so I have an idea how many trinkets to save up for?

[Dismas316]

Damn I'm jealous! I absolutely love those grips, from an aesthetic standpoint. I've never handled one. Bit I'm thinking I'll eventually "need" one of those.

May I ask what you paid so I have an idea how many trinkets to save up for?

I got it for $1,184.00 (+shipping). Most were in the $1400-1500 range dollars on GB but I see that the same seller just listed again for $1179. Hit the minimum bit and it’s yours. :D

[gtmtnbiker98]

IMO, Dan Wesson anything is simply hard to beat. I have a VBOB and a Vigil CCO. I much prefer the lightweight frame of the Vigil CCO over the VBOB. Spec for spec, the lower cost Vigil's have the same internal parts as the other more expensive models, the only difference is cosmetics. Ball cuts, carry cuts, sights, and recessed slide catches is where the premium costs derive.

I bought my Vigil CCO for $1060 and it is dollar for dollar as well made as my VBOB.

[Robinson]

IMO, Dan Wesson anything is simply hard to beat. I have a VBOB and a Vigil CCO. I much prefer the lightweight frame of the Vigil CCO over the VBOB. Spec for spec, the lower cost Vigil's have the same internal parts as the other more expensive models, the only difference is cosmetics. Ball cuts, carry cuts, sights, and recessed slide catches is where the premium costs derive.

I bought my Vigil CCO for $1060 and it is dollar for dollar as well made as my VBOB.

How do you like the grip safety on your Vigil? It's obviously not the same part as on their other pistols -- how does it feel and perform? I prefer the look of their standard grip safety but that's a minor issue.

[gtmtnbiker98]

How do you like the grip safety on your Vigil? It's obviously not the same part as on their other pistols -- how does it feel and perform? I prefer the look of their standard grip safety but that's a minor issue.

Feels the same as my VBOB. Keith at DW stated that they designed the Vigil's grip safety to be the same dimensionally as those with the pronounced "speed bump."

[TC215]

How do you like the grip safety on your Vigil? It's obviously not the same part as on their other pistols -- how does it feel and perform? I prefer the look of their standard grip safety but that's a minor issue.

From DW:


The beavertail actually protrudes out the exact same distance as those with the bump/ "memory notch". I just designed it so that it didn't look like it. There is the same amount of material on these, to, positively, deactivate the grip safety as our others. They are also cut just as high/ deep as all of our others. The only real, dimensional, difference is that the actual beavertail is shorter and doesn't protrude as much. Just enough to protect from hammer and slide bite. Which, in a way, makes it more concealable.

[Joe in PNG]

I'm seriously considering a Dan Wesson 9mm Commander as my "45 at 45" birthday present.
And yes, I'm aware of the irony.

[Dismas316]

I'm seriously considering a Dan Wesson 9mm Commander as my "45 at 45" birthday present.
And yes, I'm aware of the irony.

I like your thinking. :cool:

[Joe in PNG]

I like your thinking. :cool:

I've never yet owned a 1911, so I'm short in that department and one can't be a Real American without both a S&W service revolver and a 1911.

[Dismas316]

I've never yet owned a 1911, so I'm short in that department and one can't be a Real American without both a S&W service revolver and a 1911.

And that my friend was the genesis of this thread. My sentiments exactly. Now I just need to get the S&W Revolver.

[CWM11B]

Forgive my ignorance, but who/where is Talia/Hammond. I'm afraid I've contracted the 9mm 1911 and will probably succumb to it.

[TC215]

Jerry Hammond (Hammond Gun & Tackle) can be contacted at aopse@me.com. He’s my go-to for ordering Wilson Combat and Ed Brown. He’s very good to work with.

[Robinson]

Forgive my ignorance, but who/where is Talia/Hammond. I'm afraid I've contracted the 9mm 1911 and will probably succumb to it.

You are doomed. DOOMED I tell you...

[Pepper]

+1 for Jerry Hammond. I have purchased two Ed Browns and a Wilson Combat through him without a hitch.

[Tokarev]

Probably not the "best" but rather the "best for the money."

https://ruger.com/products/sr1911/specSheets/6758.html

https://ruger.com/products/sr1911/specSheets/6722.html

I own the Commander and the Officer both. I've shot both quite a bit with ball and JHP with no real issues especially using Tripp or Wilson mags.

I have a Dan Wesson ECO in 9mm also. It is "nicer" than the Ruger Officer but it really doesn't shoot any better. More of a status symbol rather than a functional piece.

[theJanitor]

I'm seriously considering a Dan Wesson 9mm Commander as my "45 at 45" birthday present.
And yes, I'm aware of the irony.

I could use the fact that it's Thursday as a reason to buy another 1911

[StraitR]

We try to make Thursday's our shooting day for the work crew, so we hit the range before leaving tonight. One co-worker has never shot a 9mm 1911, but is now completely obsessed with getting a Wilson 9mm. It happens.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1874/29583273427_d9d2a8a11e_c.jpg

[OlongJohnson]

Got to handle a DW Commander that was under glass at the LGS tonight. Orbiting back in close.

[theJanitor]

When I was discussing my last 1911 build with my gunsmith, we talked a bit about the 9mm 1911. He's built a bunch of them. In the end, he did suggest I just let him build a hipower if I wanted a SA 9mm. I already came to that conclusion before the conversation started, I just wanted to know if he thought otherwise.

[Bigghoss]

Probably not the "best" but rather the "best for the money."

https://ruger.com/products/sr1911/specSheets/6758.html

https://ruger.com/products/sr1911/specSheets/6722.html

I own the Commander and the Officer both. I've shot both quite a bit with ball and JHP with no real issues especially using Tripp or Wilson mags.

I have a Dan Wesson ECO in 9mm also. It is "nicer" than the Ruger Officer but it really doesn't shoot any better. More of a status symbol rather than a functional piece.

I will probably grab a a Ruger lightweight commander to dip my toe in the water as it were. Maybe by the time I get around to it they'll have done a fullweight government model with fixed sights.

[Tokarev]

I will probably grab a a Ruger lightweight commander to dip my toe in the water as it were. Maybe by the time I get around to it they'll have done a fullweight government model with fixed sights.I'd really dig adding a lightweight 9mm Goverment to the accumulation.

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[Tokarev]

When I was discussing my last 1911 build with my gunsmith, we talked a bit about the 9mm 1911. He's built a bunch of them. In the end, he did suggest I just let him build a hipower if I wanted a SA 9mm. I already came to that conclusion before the conversation started, I just wanted to know if he thought otherwise.

Who's the smith? Mind sharing?

[Dismas316]

Question: Not a big fan of the "white" front night sight on any gun. It's a bit of a challenge for my eyes to pick these up quickly, especially in the bright Texas sun. I have mostly ameriglo's on all my glocks, so what would be a good front night sight for the 1911? (I prefer orange but green will do). I know people like the dawson fiber optic sights but I don't believe these are night sights. suggestions?

[Robinson]

Question: Not a big fan of the "white" front night sight on any gun. It's a bit of a challenge for my eyes to pick these up quickly, especially in the bright Texas sun. I have mostly ameriglo's on all my glocks, so what would be a good front night sight for the 1911? (I prefer orange but green will do). I know people like the dawson fiber optic sights but I don't believe these are night sights. suggestions?

Here's one option for Novak cuts:
https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product2_hdns.php?mid=23

[Gary1911A1]

I hope to be getting one just like this in 9MM next week. Just needs to be shipped to my FFL.

[Dismas316]

I hope to be getting one just like this in 9MM next week. Just needs to be shipped to my FFL.

That's sweet, I like the grips. Are those the VZ grips? Been looking at those as a possible replacement to what I'm getting in the guardian. Mine will come in while I'm out of town traveling next week so won't be able to pick it up from my FFL until later in the week.

[Tokarev]

Does STI still sell the Trojan? These were gussied up Rock Island 1911s with STI parts installed. The few I saw always seemed to work pretty well and they had some nice features. This might be a good option for a budget-minded person.

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[Jack Ryan]

Colt.

[TheNewbie]

Does STI still sell the Trojan? These were gussied up Rock Island 1911s with STI parts installed. The few I saw always seemed to work pretty well and they had some nice features. This might be a good option for a budget-minded person.

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I've wondered the same thing. Around 2010-2012 these seemed to be popular.

The one I shot in 9mm was a joy to shoot. Though I did have one failure to feed in just a few rounds with a new Wilson mag. This was not my gun.

[Tokarev]

I was just on the STI website. I only see 2011 variants available.

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[TheRoland]

STI dropped out of the single-stack business largely.

I love shooting my 9mm Trojan, but I've never been through a whole match without some sort of malfunction, and have been squad-ed with a lot of malfunctions when they were popular in IDPA ESP a few years ago. It's soured me on the idea of the 9mm 1911 for any serious purpose.

[Tokarev]

It's soured me on the idea of the 9mm 1911 for any serious purpose.

I had a Rock Island bumper chrome 38 Super rebarreled to 9 and worked over by Virgil Tripp. I put 8,000 rounds of Wolf steel case through that gun with no issues. I made A class in L10 shooting minor with it. It was a fantastic gun. I should have never parted with it. [emoji26]


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[45dotACP]

STI dropped out of the single-stack business largely.

I love shooting my 9mm Trojan, but I've never been through a whole match without some sort of malfunction, and have been squad-ed with a lot of malfunctions when they were popular in IDPA ESP a few years ago. It's soured me on the idea of the 9mm 1911 for any serious purpose.That sucks dude. It is not easy to get a 9mm 1911 running...my commander still hits me in the forehead with brass, so I still need to tweak but it doesn't have any stoppages.

With mags it likes, that is.

I've found my 9mm 1911 is very mag picky. With the 9 round metalform Leatham mags (with the internal feed ramp) the gun did not run any hollow points. But the ten round mags with the feed ramp were just fine and the 9 round non ramped mags were fine. I suspect it has something to do with the two piece feed setup the Colts use, but I don't have a ramped gun to compare so it's hard to say for sure.

Guess I'll need another 9mm 1911.

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[M2CattleCo]

STI dropped out of the single-stack business largely.

I love shooting my 9mm Trojan, but I've never been through a whole match without some sort of malfunction, and have been squad-ed with a lot of malfunctions when they were popular in IDPA ESP a few years ago. It's soured me on the idea of the 9mm 1911 for any serious purpose.

In 2010 or '11 I briefly had a 5" Trojan 9mm that wouldn't run either. The Trojan 45 I had didn't run any better.

[Gary1911A1]

That's sweet, I like the grips. Are those the VZ grips? Been looking at those as a possible replacement to what I'm getting in the guardian. Mine will come in while I'm out of town traveling next week so won't be able to pick it up from my FFL until later in the week.

I believe they are. When I felt one in his shop it felt good.

[APS-PF]

In 2010 or '11 I briefly had a 5" Trojan 9mm that wouldn't run either. The Trojan 45 I had didn't run any better.

Go figure I think I got lucky. My 2014 9mm Trojan hasn't skipped a beat yet in a few thousand rounds. I even bought 4 different magazines to try b/c of the issues others reported with 1911 9mm mags. They all work great. Other than a few gold dots to check accuracy @25yds I only feed it WWB, AE, Blazer Brass, etc..cheap brass cased stuff.

[Spartan1980]

My 9mm Trojan has been perfect as long as I run Dawson/Metalform mags. It refuses to function at all with Wilson mags. Weird I know. It was tuned by Eddie Garcia so who knows what kind of magic he did in there, but it's one of my favorite guns.

[farscott]

I have a pair of 9x19 Trojan 5.0 pistols, and each gun works best with different magazines. And swapping magazines between pistols results in failures to feed.

I had John Harrison build me a full-house 9x19/9x23 1911 on a Series '80 Colt, and he told me at that time that the 9x19 is marginal in the 1911 due to the lack of momentum/recoil impulse combined with a short OAL. Shooting close to a dozen different 9x19 1911-pattern pistols over almost twenty years has proven him correct.

[OlongJohnson]

I think, in general, in any field of enterprise, it really takes only one entity figuring out a technology and executing it with reliable, consistent results to demonstrate that multitudes of people saying the technical challenges can't reliably be overcome really just haven't figured out how to do it.

[Tokarev]

You guys who've got picky guns; try the mags with the integral feed ramp if you haven't already. They can work wonders in the 9mm 1911.

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[mmc45414]

Probably not the "best" but rather the "best for the money."
https://ruger.com/products/sr1911/specSheets/6758.html
https://ruger.com/products/sr1911/specSheets/6722.html
I own the Commander and the Officer both. I've shot both quite a bit with ball and JHP with no real issues especially using Tripp or Wilson mags.

I will probably grab a a Ruger lightweight commander to dip my toe in the water as it were. Maybe by the time I get around to it they'll have done a fullweight government model with fixed sights.
I didn't post here prior because the direction of the thread was higher end, but I also have two of the 9mm Rugers, the LWC and the 5", and have been very happy. I mostly shoot the 5" (I put Dawson FO sights on it and really like it) but if I was just going to have one the 9mm LWC is pretty darn cool.

But all three I have (I also have a 45 LWC) have come out of the box running and have been what I consider to be very reliable. I fiddled with the trigger on the LWC but probably didn't really need to, but the other two are just fine. It seems like the 9mm guns were sprung on the light side and I did swap recoil springs to the standard weight Wolff variable springs in both. They are not the most elegant but they are a heck of a way to spend $750.

I guess I should take some pictures...

[CalmlyDeMented]

I fingered one of the new Dan Wesson Vigils at a shop in KC this weekend and it was amazing. It was a .45, but the 9mm weighs about the same, which is crazy light. I’m really digging that aluminum frame on a full-size 1911. Comparing it to a 9mm Valor they had there was interesting. Working the slide on the valor was way smoother, but the weight difference was pretty significant. It really made me want a full size 9mm Vigil. Especially with it being $400-500 less. Yeah, I’ll have one soon.

[Robinson]

I fingered one of the new Dan Wesson Vigils at a shop in KC this weekend and it was amazing. It was a .45, but the 9mm weighs about the same, which is crazy light. I’m really digging that aluminum frame on a full-size 1911. Comparing it to a 9mm Valor they had there was interesting. Working the slide on the valor was way smoother, but the weight difference was pretty significant. It really made me want a full size 9mm Vigil. Especially with it being $400-500 less. Yeah, I’ll have one soon.

Yes the Vigil is tempting. On the other hand, I examined a 9mm Valor Commander yesterday and it sure seemed put together nice.

The Colt Custom Competition I saw looked and felt really amazing too, but that's for another thread. :)

[willie]

I like the Ruger light weight that I shot. I suggest this model. You may or may not like the platform. If you don't, you will lose less money with the Ruger. Note that you can buy a high end gun that won't run out of the box. I never tell people that a 1911 is an expert's weapon. Historically, the giant number of users probably included few experts. Today there are better self defense pistols. The 1911 is unforgiving in that an unaware or untrained user may experience a negligent discharge early in his ownership.

[M2CattleCo]

I think, in general, in any field of enterprise, it really takes only one entity figuring out a technology and executing it with reliable, consistent results to demonstrate that multitudes of people saying the technical challenges can't reliably be overcome really just haven't figured out how to do it.

Yep. It also makes the price of admission worth it if you want something that works.

[HeavyDuty]

Holy crap.

I stopped at a large store that I never get to anymore and checked out a DW Pointman Carry in 9mm. Do, do want.

[breakingtime91]

So I graduate this winter from college. Hard year but I am managing to do well in my student teaching (1st grade if you can believe it). Long story short I really want a 9mm commander/ professional size as a graduation gift to myself to rekindle my love of shooting. Currently looking at three offerings:

Dan Wesson Valor Commander 9mm

Dan Wesson Vigil Commander 9mm

Wilson Combat 9mm Professional


Thoughts? Wilson would be a stretch but I could sell some stuff to get it.

[OlongJohnson]

I started OCDing really hard on the Valor Commander. Looking at hi-res photos, handled another DW Commander at the LGS, etc. Realized I'd still want to do more work on blending contours and detailing it out, some for cosmetic and some for functional reasons. Then send it back to DW to get Duty Treat. Add mags and leather, and the $1200 bargain is a $2k project plus a lot of man-hours that I don't have. Enough for me to think smarter of it.

[theJanitor]

the hard truth about the 1911 in non-45ACP calibers is that you pay for proven performance. It hurts, and it scares many off, but "getting a 1911 to run" CAN be an expensive endeavor. Or you can put out the money up front, and lessen your chances of getting a dud. Just as any good company can turn out a turd, shitty companies can turn out gems. That's why the recommendation for Wilson is so prevalent. Or going to a smith, right off the bat, who knows ho to build one. The cost would be similar

[M2CattleCo]

So I graduate this winter from college. Hard year but I am managing to do well in my student teaching (1st grade if you can believe it). Long story short I really want a 9mm commander/ professional size as a graduation gift to myself to rekindle my love of shooting. Currently looking at three offerings:

Dan Wesson Valor Commander 9mm

Dan Wesson Vigil Commander 9mm

Wilson Combat 9mm Professional


Thoughts? Wilson would be a stretch but I could sell some stuff to get it.

I would stretch it and go with the Wilson, if it's an option, there's no reason to go with the DW. I say that from a function/reliability standpoint. The DW is nice enough, but Wilson absolutely builds a better running gun.

[JAD]

So I graduate this winter from college. Hard year but I am managing to do well in my student teaching (1st grade if you can believe it). Long story short I really want a 9mm commander/ professional size as a graduation gift to myself to rekindle my love of shooting. Currently looking at three offerings:

Dan Wesson Valor Commander 9mm

Dan Wesson Vigil Commander 9mm

Wilson Combat 9mm Professional


Thoughts? Wilson would be a stretch but I could sell some stuff to get it.

Of those three the vigil, just because it's the only lightweight. For me personally in the context of gift-to-myself I would (and did) get a Colt and get it worked. If you can't wait for that the Hackathorn Special lightweight 9mm is the hot ticket Wilson.

[theJanitor]

in commander or CCO, configuration, LightWeight is the way to go. I can't get over how well my LW CCO carries

[JAD]

I started OCDing really hard on the Valor Commander. Looking at hi-res photos, handled another DW Commander at the LGS, etc. Realized I'd still want to do more work on blending contours and detailing it out, some for cosmetic and some for functional reasons. Then send it back to DW to get Duty Treat. Add mags and leather, and the $1200 bargain is a $2k project plus a lot of man-hours that I don't have. Enough for me to think smarter of it.

If your conclusion was "I better break out the credit rating and get a Harrison on order," you thought smarter of it. If it was "I guess I won't get a LWC," you thought wronger.

[theJanitor]

I started OCDing really hard on the Valor Commander. Looking at hi-res photos, handled another DW Commander at the LGS, etc. Realized I'd still want to do more work on blending contours and detailing it out, some for cosmetic and some for functional reasons. Then send it back to DW to get Duty Treat. Add mags and leather, and the $1200 bargain is a $2k project plus a lot of man-hours that I don't have. Enough for me to think smarter of it.

Don't count the cost of the mags and leather. You can use them with the next 1911 too

[farscott]

If your conclusion was "I better break out the credit rating and get a Harrison on order," you thought smarter of it. If it was "I guess I won't get a LWC," you thought wronger.

Last I checked, John's backlog was measured in years. That helps with "I gotta have it now" syndrome. David Sams is another 9x19 1911 smith that builds a reliable gun. 9x19 1911 magazines are still consumables. I go through Wilson magazines like Roger Federer goes through tennis shoes and Rolex watches.

[Tokarev]

Is Virgil Tripp still actively smithing? He's the T in STI and one I'd certainly put on my short list if I wanted a 9mm 1911 built.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[HeavyDuty]

I know some of you didn’t have anything good to say about the SA EMP earlier in the thread, but I had a chance to handle an EMP 4” with the boattail gripframe today. I really, really liked it. Like almost unbearable to leave it at the store.

[Totem Polar]

Don't count the cost of the mags and leather. You can use them with the next 1911 too

#truth:thewayitis

[Dismas316]

As my luck would have it, my FFL called me today to let me know my DW Guardian came in today. Of course I’m out of town and won’t be able to pick it up until Thursday(hopefully). Can’t wait to get home to get it out to the range, hopefully this weekend if not earlier.

[JSGlock34]

I'd haunt the Gunbroker ads and look for a deal on a Wilson. You may give up some customization options, but you may well find a better price and without the wait. I'm pleased with the features of the Wilson models I purchased that were South Sports Exclusives (https://www.wilsoncombat.com/sports-south-exclusives/). I also understand that some of the Master Dealers can cut down on wait time and price.

As for current Gunbroker listens, here's a new base Wilson CQB (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/784075326)that will go for $2700-2800 (depending on whether the Buy It Now is exercised. There is also a new two tone CQB Elite (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/784563906) starting at $2750 that might merit a low bid...

[357carbine]

So I graduate this winter from college. Hard year but I am managing to do well in my student teaching (1st grade if you can believe it). Long story short I really want a 9mm commander/ professional size as a graduation gift to myself to rekindle my love of shooting. Currently looking at three offerings:

Dan Wesson Valor Commander 9mm

Dan Wesson Vigil Commander 9mm

Wilson Combat 9mm Professional


Thoughts? Wilson would be a stretch but I could sell some stuff to get it.

Nice Wilson Combat you chose. Been watching that one myself. Hope you win!

[theJanitor]

Nice Wilson Combat you chose. Been watching that one myself. Hope you win!

I saw that too! good luck

[breakingtime91]

Thanks, fingers crossed!

[Paladin]

So I’m late to the party! If I had to pick a hard use my life depends on it 9mm 1911 it would be Wilson Combat period. I’ve got a bushing true commander that hasn’t missed a beat! I also have a cco nighthawk that’s gonna have to go back for the 2nd time as it has reliability issues. The nighthawk is super accurate and extremely soft shooting so I hope they can get it running for me. I also have a Garthwaite/Colt that Jim did a complete build on that I carry so hence I trust with my life. I like DW guns and know they build a good 9mm 1911 but for me it’s Wilson or Jim Garthwaite until nighthawk can get my cco runing.
Rick

[breakingtime91]

Whelp, I am the proud owner of a compact carry 9mm from wilson combat. Put a bid up for shits and giggles this morning before heading to teach my little ones and got a notice when I got home that I won. Now I need 9mm wilson mags and carry. gear...

[Pit]

Whelp, I am the proud owner of a compact carry 9mm from wilson combat. Put a bid up for shits and giggles this morning before heading to teach my little ones and got a notice when I got home that I won. Now I need 9mm wilson mags and carry. gear...

Hinterland Outfitters has 10 round Wilson Combat ETM 500-9 for $32.04. Item number 39375.

JW

[Larry Sellers]

Whelp, I am the proud owner of a compact carry 9mm from wilson combat. Put a bid up for shits and giggles this morning before heading to teach my little ones and got a notice when I got home that I won. Now I need 9mm wilson mags and carry. gear...

Photos when it arrives!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JAD]

As Tam says, a steel 9mm 1911 is like a gun with the cheat code enabled.

If I had one, it would like the P7 whisper to me at night about the tactical importance of teeny splits.

[Tamara]

To echo a bunch of people upthread:

30178

3,785 rounds and the only malfunction has been a near-squib level round of Win NATO that didn't generate enough slide travel to even extract the case. I should probably clean it.

[JSGlock34]

3,785 rounds and the only malfunction has been a near-squib level round of Win NATO that didn't generate enough slide travel to even extract the case. I should probably clean it.


I have an X9 here I'm about to do the 2,000-round thing with, and if it runs anything like my Wilson TCP 9, I'm going to wind up losing money on this review...:eek:

That's some serious Wilson time you're getting! I'd be curious to hear how the EDC X9 and TCP9 compare.

[StraitR]

Whelp, I am the proud owner of a compact carry 9mm from wilson combat. Put a bid up for shits and giggles this morning before heading to teach my little ones and got a notice when I got home that I won. Now I need 9mm wilson mags and carry. gear...

Of course, I'm partial to that model, and you got it for heck of a price. Looking forward to your thoughts brother, but I'm pretty confident you'll be smitten with it.

Steel framed 9mm's are definite cheat mode, but some of us need that. :)

I enjoy that single stack life, everyday.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1882/29708804317_4800612c03_c.jpg

[CDFIII]

30185
30186
I’ll have to agree with everyone on an all steel 9mm.

[breakingtime91]

Ordering some JM gear today and magazines. Really excited to hand it down to my son someday.

[Dismas316]

Finally was able to pick up my Guardian. I hope to shoot either Friday or Sat. with it. Feels fantastic in the hand and cannot wait to shot it. Front texturing is really aggressive and feels great. I've been thinking of getting some of the g10 grips but I kind of like the look and feel. Will be curious to how the grip feels on the range with the Texas heat and sweat.

[StraitR]

Congrats, solid choice, and I think it looks great. Big fan of black with wood grips, kind of an updated look with old school coolness. Looking forward to your range report.

I love blued steel 1911's, nothing looks better IMO, but coatings such as duty treat and Wilson's AT seem to be better EDC options.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1850/44648107072_921887fc0a_c.jpg

[Balisong]

To echo a bunch of people upthread:

30178

3,785 rounds and the only malfunction has been a near-squib level round of Win NATO that didn't generate enough slide travel to even extract the case. I should probably clean it.

That's an interesting looking model. Do you have a review and/or specs up on it somewhere?

[Dismas316]

So today I was able to put 150 rounds through the gun. Was using 115g Fiocchi. I did have 1 malfunction, a failure to feed. Overall it is just a pleasure to shoot, fantastic trigger, pulls at 4.5 lbs but really feels lighter. Soft shooting and I really like the bobtail ergonomics. I was a little concerned that the smooth back strap and wood grips would not give me a good grip in the heat/humidity but it didn’t seem to be an issue at all.

The only issue I have is the the poa/poi is at almost an extreme 6:00 hold, which I hate and no other gun has that poa/poi. At 10 yards I was shooting almost 3 inches high with a front site covering the center dot. I had to place the top of the front site at 6:00 to get a center hit. At 25 yards on a bag rest, I was putting the top of the front post 6 inches below the center dot. Not a big fan of the traditional white NS so was thinking about replacing it anyway. Looks like I’ll need to get bit higher front post but may end of replacing the entire sight set up.

From a shooting perspective the speed I was able to really work the trigger pretty fast for me. I would have put more rounds but the was just irritating to me. There was a steel rabbit at 25 yards and I would have to aim a few inches below the target shooing at air to hit it, which was really weird. Once I get the sights corrected, this gun will be a home run for me.

[StraitR]

double-tap

[StraitR]

That's an interesting looking model. Do you have a review and/or specs up on it somewhere?

I've not seen her post a review on BBB's or here, but I'm still eagerly awaiting one.

I'll help with specs on the Tactical Carry Professional, from Wilson's website. The only difference between her TCP and my CCP is...

TCP - Steel Bullet Proof Round Butt Magazine Well
CCP - Aluminum Bullet Proof Round Butt Magazine Well (to make weight in IDPA Concealed Carry Division)


The Tactical Carry Professional has been designed by Bill Wilson as a next generation custom pistol and is an ideal choice as an everyday carry piece. The full-size steel frame and 4” Compact upper fitted with our Bullet Proof ® round butt one-piece magwell is a practical carry choice for shooters seeking a full size grip. The Tactical Carry Professional also comes complete with many of our most popular performance and cosmetic options, like carry cuts, ball end mill slide cuts, serrated top and rear of slide and countersunk slide stop post. The reduced profile concealment grip safety and hammer in conjunction with round butt magwell guarantees that the Tactical Carry Professional will be a Bullet Proof® performer for you on the range or on the street.


Full-Size Carbon Steel Frame
30 LPI High Cut Checkered Frontstrap
Bullet Proof® Round Butt Magazine Well
Concealment Bullet Proof® Beavertail Grip Safety and Hammer
Tactical Bullet Proof® Thumb Safety
3 ½# - 3 ¾# Crisp Trigger Pull with Medium Length Pad
Bullet Proof® Magazine Release
G10 Starburst Grips
Torx Head Grip Screws
Countersunk Slide Stop
4” Carbon Steel Slide
Heavy Machine Chamfer on Bottom of Slide
Battlesight with Fiber Optic Front Sight
4” Stainless Match Grade Cone Barrel, Flush Cut Reverse Crown
Fluted Chamber
Fluted Barrel
30 LPI Slide Top Serrations
40 LPI Serrated Rear of Slide
Carry Cuts/Ball Endmill Cuts

[farscott]

It appears from perusing the photos of shooters with reliable pistols that the shorter 9x19 1911-pattern pistols are the way to go. My experience is all with five-inch guns. My inference is that the lighter slides are better suited for the 9x19 recoil impulse.

[M2CattleCo]

I still think a 5" gun runs best. Goves more time for the magazine to do it's thing.

[M2CattleCo]

... Was using 115g Fiocchi. I did have 1 malfunction, a failure to feed....

The only issue I have is the the poa/poi is at almost an extreme 6:00 hold, which I hate and no other gun has that poa/poi. At 10 yards I was shooting almost 3 inches high with a front site covering the center dot. I had to place the top of the front site at 6:00 to get a center hit. At 25 yards on a bag rest, I was putting the top of the front post 6 inches below the center dot....

I would not gloss over a FTFeed. What exactly did it do?

Dan Wesson ships every pistol with the same front sight, which is usually way too short.

[Drang]

That's an interesting looking model. Do you have a review and/or specs up on it somewhere?

This seems to be it, so far: View From The Porch: Gratuitous Gun Pr0n #173... (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2018/09/gratuitous-gun-pr0n-173.html)

(Note: Tamara has spent the last few months recovering from a busted collarbone, which impacted her ability to do shooting tests and to write.)

[Larry Sellers]

I would not gloss over a FTFeed. What exactly did it do?

Dan Wesson ships every pistol with the same front sight, which is usually way too short.


Had this issue. I sent them my slide and they replaced it with the proper height sight. I remember this being more common when they came to market with their early 9mm offerings. Not 100% sure if it's as prevalent anymore.

[StraitR]

I still think a 5" gun runs best. Goves more time for the magazine to do it's thing.

I agree on 45acp guns, but disagree on 9mm. Wilson recommends a minimum 128k power factor on their 9mm guns, just to make sure you're getting enough slide speed. They also emphasize that their 9mm 1911's should be kept well lubricated and clean (more so than 45acp) as to not hinder slide speed. New 4" guns come with a lighter 11lbs recoil spring for break-in, and a 12.5lbs recoil spring for post break-in. Based on all that information, it seems the more common issue with 9mm 1911 slide speed is not getting too much, like with 45acp, but rather not enough. Slowing it down with a longer/heavier slide seems counterintuitive.

That being said, I think any size can be tuned with springs and ammo to be just as reliable as the next, but it may or may not be reliable across a wide spectrum of bullet weights and power factor.

[TC215]

The only issue I have is the the poa/poi is at almost an extreme 6:00 hold, which I hate and no other gun has that poa/poi. At 10 yards I was shooting almost 3 inches high with a front site covering the center dot. I had to place the top of the front site at 6:00 to get a center hit. At 25 yards on a bag rest, I was putting the top of the front post 6 inches below the center dot. Not a big fan of the traditional white NS so was thinking about replacing it anyway. Looks like I’ll need to get bit higher front post but may end of replacing the entire sight set up.

From a shooting perspective the speed I was able to really work the trigger pretty fast for me. I would have put more rounds but the was just irritating to me. There was a steel rabbit at 25 yards and I would have to aim a few inches below the target shooing at air to hit it, which was really weird. Once I get the sights corrected, this gun will be a home run for me.

All 7 of my DW 9mm’s have shot that way. A few of my .45’s have. You need a .180” front sight. You can send your slide in and they’ll switch it for free. Turnaround time is about a week.

[Tamara]

That's an interesting looking model. Do you have a review and/or specs up on it somewhere?

The gun arrived to do a test on high-end 1911 pattern guns for Concealed Carry Magazine a couple years ago. The article's up on their website now (https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/money-well-spent-nighthawk-wilson-combat-1911s/), I just discovered.

Incidentally, I specifically wrote the article to not be a comparison test, because I didn't think that a fairly traditional .45 Commander-pattern gun like the Nighthawk Kestrel, and a bull-barelled 9mm bobtail pseudo-Commander really were marketed to the same audience. I just wanted to kind of audit a couple of expensive 1911s for the reader who might not be familiar with that sort of gun.

I thought I made that fairly clear in the text, but how did my editors blurb it on the cover?


"Wilson vs. Nighthawk: Head to Head Comparison Test!" or words to that effect.

No sooner had the issue gone out...and even before I'd seen it...I get an IM from Nighthawk's marketing dude. "Damn, Tam, what'd you write in that article? They're pretty hot back at the home office. Said they lost a comparison test or something?"

I was like "Er, I don't know what they're talking about? I thought I was pretty even-handed?"

I did buy the Wilson, though. Because it's cool-looking and 9mm is cheap to shoot.

[Drang]

This seems to be it, so far: View From The Porch: Gratuitous Gun Pr0n #173... (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2018/09/gratuitous-gun-pr0n-173.html)


The gun arrived to do a test on high-end 1911 pattern guns for Concealed Carry Magazine a couple years ago. The article's up on their website now (https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/money-well-spent-nighthawk-wilson-combat-1911s/), I just discovered.

Huh. I went and looked for it. My search-fu must be lacking today.

[M2CattleCo]

I agree on 45acp guns, but disagree on 9mm. Wilson recommends a minimum 128k power factor on their 9mm guns, just to make sure you're getting enough slide speed. They also emphasize that their 9mm 1911's should be kept well lubricated and clean (more so than 45acp) as to not hinder slide speed. New 4" guns come with a lighter 11lbs recoil spring for break-in, and a 12.5lbs recoil spring for post break-in. Based on all that information, it seems the more common issue with 9mm 1911 slide speed is not getting too much, like with 45acp, but rather not enough. Slowing it down with a longer/heavier slide seems counterintuitive.

That being said, I think any size can be tuned with springs and ammo to be just as reliable as the next, but it may or may not be reliable across a wide spectrum of bullet weights and power factor.



I used to think the same thing, but lots of shooting has changed my mind. Nearly 10K rounds through three different 5" Wilsons has shown near 100% reliability with the only stoppages being two deformed cases and one instance of releasing the slide with the magazine not seated. One of those is right at 7K having never been cleaned. Ammo has been Wal-Mart 115gr FMJ to 147gr HST with the majority being 124gr American Eagle. All shot with the 12.5lb recoil springs after a hundred or so with the 10lb. TLG got best reliability from his 5" 9mm with a 14 lb spring. Shooting with a high thumbs-forward grip touching the slide has never caused me a short stroke.

The conclusion I've come to is that it's favorable to push a heavier slide with a lighter spring with more velocity gained by the longer barrel. It also seems to work better on the way back to battery with the higher mass of the 5" slide being less prone to changing velocity during the feed cycle. That heavy slide gets a longer running start, but doesn't have to go as fast as the 4" to push the round from the mag to the chamber.

But if you have a 4" and I have a 5, and they both run 100%, then it's really all theoretical.

[Dismas316]

I would not gloss over a FTFeed. What exactly did it do?

Dan Wesson ships every pistol with the same front sight, which is usually way too short.

I suspect its the magazine or me. It was a metalfrom that I bought. I notice the spring with a loaded magazine doesn’t spring back great when depressing the front of the cartridge. I also noticed that it wasn’t pushed all the way back of the mag. (My fault). Not really glossing over necessarily but I think it was likely me or the mag more so than the gun. Once I get the right sights on it I will likely run 400-500 rounds through it and get a better idea.

[StraitR]

But if you have a 4" and I have a 5, and they both run 100%, then it's really all theoretical.

I'm not surprised to see any Wilson run without issue, and think reliability in their guns is more a product of how they build and set them up than it is slide length (or caliber). Just as the 9 vs 45 ballistics argument has been settled, Wilson has settled the 9 vs 45 reliability in 1911's as well. People are welcome to argue with that, but should realize they're going against Bill's experience and opinion on the issue.

[Balisong]

The gun arrived to do a test on high-end 1911 pattern guns for Concealed Carry Magazine a couple years ago. The article's up on their website now (https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/money-well-spent-nighthawk-wilson-combat-1911s/), I just discovered.

Incidentally, I specifically wrote the article to not be a comparison test, because I didn't think that a fairly traditional .45 Commander-pattern gun like the Nighthawk Kestrel, and a bull-barelled 9mm bobtail pseudo-Commander really were marketed to the same audience. I just wanted to kind of audit a couple of expensive 1911s for the reader who might not be familiar with that sort of gun.

I thought I made that fairly clear in the text, but how did my editors blurb it on the cover?


"Wilson vs. Nighthawk: Head to Head Comparison Test!" or words to that effect.

No sooner had the issue gone out...and even before I'd seen it...I get an IM from Nighthawk's marketing dude. "Damn, Tam, what'd you write in that article? They're pretty hot back at the home office. Said they lost a comparison test or something?"

I was like "Er, I don't know what they're talking about? I thought I was pretty even-handed?"

I did buy the Wilson, though. Because it's cool-looking and 9mm is cheap to shoot.

Thanks for the link Tamara, I enjoyed the article. Sorry the editors threw you under the bus like that. And thank you StraitR for the info on the model. I'm just starting to piece together the different models and options Wilson offers. It's a bit daunting for a 1911 n00b, but I'm figuring out what I'd like to get myself as a sweet "fun gun" once I get my EDC situation ironed out.

As far as "cheat mode" shooting in regards to 9mm 1911s, and I know this would be hard to quantify, is there a significant loss of performance (split times/general handling) going from 5 inch steel to 4-4.25 inch steel? And then again going to the 4-4.25 inch aluminum frame?

[M2CattleCo]

The 4-4 1/4" funs cycle faster and feel flatter than a 5". If you're a P30/Centurion/19X kinda guy, you'll prefer a 4-4 1/4" gun.

The 5" pistol acts more like a Glock 34.

I shoot aluminum and steel 5" 9s a lot and there is a little difference in flip. It takes about two mags to really get settled in between the two as far as feel. The couple of times I've ran 'em on a timer there was no significant difference, certainly not anything I could attribute to the different weights.

[Balisong]

The 4-4 1/4" funs cycle faster and feel flatter than a 5". If you're a P30/Centurion/19X kinda guy, you'll prefer a 4-4 1/4" gun.

The 5" pistol acts more like a Glock 34.

I shoot aluminum and steel 5" 9s a lot and there is a little difference in flip. It takes about two mags to really get settled in between the two as far as feel. The couple of times I've ran 'em on a timer there was no significant difference, certainly not anything I could attribute to the different weights.

Thank you sir, that was the kind of info I was going for. A commander-ish aluminum would obviously be nice in case I decided I wanted to carry it, but I don't want to sacrifice the "cheat mode" when I eventually get a 9mm 1911

[Robinson]

I'm not totally convinced the Commander-size guns are more reliable than 9mm Government models across all the manufacturers, but I will say a Commander in 9mm is sort of like a sweet spot between size and the so-called "cheat mode".

Decide what all you want to use the gun for, then make your decision based on that.

I've gone back to all Government models in both 9mm and .45 and have no Commanders any more. Not that I don't like them, I just prefer the 5" guns even for carry. I also like the Glock 34 so I guess it makes sense for me.

[M2CattleCo]

I also prefer the 5" slide for strong side carry. The length keeps the butt tucked in closer and doesn't push into the sciatic like a short slide does.

I carried a Glock 19 in a 34 holster for the same reason.

[Totem Polar]

I thought I made that fairly clear in the text, but how did my editors blurb it on the cover?


"Wilson vs. Nighthawk: Head to Head Comparison Test!" or words to that effect.



Q. How many editors does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A. Three. One to screw it in. Two to hold down the author.

(I’ve written for magazines before, too. #mfingtruth)

[MGW]

My practice sessions with my 1911’s is usually 150 rounds or less. Today, after running close to 300 rounds of 45 at a match, I’m seriously considering a 9mm. My hands and left elbow are not unbearably sore but I’m feeling it. Add to that a practice session with the 17 today that was less than stellar. I’m also considering just carrying a 9mm 1911 and calling it good.

[EVP]

Just curious, for those that have shot 9mm 1911s and full-size berettas, what is the difference in recoil characteristics?

I have shot a 9mm 1911 a couple years back and felt that the recoil seemed to be on par with a b92.

[JSGlock34]

I think participating in this thread hexed my Wilson 9mm 1911. Had numerous FTRB malfunctions tonight towards the latter end of my range session. At this point the pistol was at ~500 rounds since the last cleaning. Ammunition was 115 grain AE and 147 grain Atlanta Arms. It seemed like slide return was getting sluggish towards the end.

The only malfunctions I've had with this pistol are FTRB, usually solved with a sharp rap to the back of the slide. I am wondering whether the pistol would benefit from a different recoil spring.

[M2CattleCo]

What's in it now, how many rounds on it?

[JSGlock34]

It has the factory original recoil spring, which I understand is a 12.5 Chrome Silicon. Closing in on 2,000 rounds.

[Robinson]

My practice sessions with my 1911’s is usually 150 rounds or less. Today, after running close to 300 rounds of 45 at a match, I’m seriously considering a 9mm. My hands and left elbow are not unbearably sore but I’m feeling it. Add to that a practice session with the 17 today that was less than stellar. I’m also considering just carrying a 9mm 1911 and calling it good.

If you get one that is truly squared away, the only thing you give up to a G17 is capacity. It's generally a more expensive path, especially if you commit to having a primary and a backup -- but you already know that. :)

[M2CattleCo]

It has the factory original recoil spring, which I understand is a 12.5 Chrome Silicon. Closing in on 2,000 rounds.



They come with a 10lb installed and a 12.5lb in a bag. Should run on either with that ammo though. Might be an over-tensioned extractor.

[StraitR]

I think participating in this thread hexed my Wilson 9mm 1911. Had numerous FTRB malfunctions tonight towards the latter end of my range session. At this point the pistol was at ~500 rounds since the last cleaning. Ammunition was 115 grain AE and 147 grain Atlanta Arms. It seemed like slide return was getting sluggish towards the end.

The only malfunctions I've had with this pistol are FTRB, usually solved with a sharp rap to the back of the slide. I am wondering whether the pistol would benefit from a different recoil spring.


It has the factory original recoil spring, which I understand is a 12.5 Chrome Silicon. Closing in on 2,000 rounds.

It's my understanding that Wilson full-size 9mm's come with a 11# spring installed, and a 12.5# spring for after break-in (Compacts are 10#/11#). You might dig through your Wilson bag to see if you have the heavier spring and give that a try. My compact was suppose to come with a second spring, but didn't. A quick call to Wilson and they sent me one.

What oil are you using, out of curiosity?

[JSGlock34]

The extra spring in my Wilson bag is marked "Light" - I believe it is a 11#. I'm fairly certain that 12.5# springs are now standard on 5" guns. I know this has changed over the years. The current Wilson 'replacement parts' page has the 12.5# listed as standard for full size 9mm pistols (though the text differs).

Home / Handgun Replacement Parts by Model / Full-Size Frame, 5" Bushing Barrel / Full-Size Frame, 5" Bushing Barrel, 9mm (https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Full-Size-Frame-5-Bushing-Barrel-9mm/products/564/)

ETA: Lube is Wilson Lite, a bottle of which came with the pistol.

[StraitR]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Looks like the 4” Compact 9mm replacement spring is now a 13#. I’d prefer to have the strongest spring I can and still get reliable feeding with the typical ammo I shoot (S&B/Magtech 124gr & Hornady Critical Duty 135 +p). I may order one to try.

I know those flat chrome silicon springs are said to have a 40k life, but I’ve read others having issue with them. You might call and see if they’ll send you a new spring to try. It’s certainly cheaper than them paying to have the gun shipped back.

ETA: Definitely worth checking the extractor, as suggested by M2C above. Potentially fouled channel. Will it push feed with minimal effort?

[Doc_Glock]

I recently did a 2k year with a Springfield Range Officer. It did okay and I generally liked shooting it. Things I did not like were:

-single stack mags had various sorts of drama losing rounds, not locking back, etc.
-I missed activating the grip safety a few times.
-it felt down on capacity.

I didn’t like it enough to go for a $3800, presumably more reliable Wilson version.

Am I nuts to be considering a second hand EDC X9? Seems like it addresses all the issues above.

[Larry Sellers]

I recently did a 2k year with a Springfield Range Officer. It did okay and I generally liked shooting it. Things I did not like were:

-single stack mags had various sorts of drama losing rounds, not locking back, etc.
-I missed activating the grip safety a few times.
-it felt down on capacity.

I didn’t like it enough to go for a $3800, presumably more reliable Wilson version.

Am I nuts to be considering a second hand EDC X9? Seems like it addresses all the issues above.

Same boat as far as the grip safety, I’ve had a local Smith install an extended version. Hopefully it alleviates the issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Doc_Glock]

Same boat as far as the grip safety, I’ve had a local Smith install an extended version. Hopefully it alleviates the issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The grip safety is fairly easy to stone just slightly to get it to come off easier, but you have to go easy and slowly in the process.

[StraitR]

The grip safety is fairly easy to stone just slightly to get it to come off easier, but you have to go easy and slowly in the process.

My Wilson releases pretty early, maybe a little too early. My Baer releases late, maybe a little too late.

[Robinson]

The grip safety is fairly easy to stone just slightly to get it to come off easier, but you have to go easy and slowly in the process.

Agreed. Knowing just where to stone is also key to success. Remove just a little too much material or in the wrong place and you've just ruined your grip safety.

Work a little bit with the stone, reassemble the gun and test function, repeat as needed.

[MGW]

I recently did a 2k year with a Springfield Range Officer. It did okay and I generally liked shooting it. Things I did not like were:

-single stack mags had various sorts of drama losing rounds, not locking back, etc.
-I missed activating the grip safety a few times.
-it felt down on capacity.

I didn’t like it enough to go for a $3800, presumably more reliable Wilson version.

Am I nuts to be considering a second hand EDC X9? Seems like it addresses all the issues above.

I don't think your nuts. I've seriously considered one multiple times. I just have a hard time turning loose of money, especially that kind of money, on a pistol that I haven't had an opportunity to shoot. Maybe I would hate it or maybe I would love it but that's a pretty steep price for me to find out.

This is my third serious go around with full-size 1911's. I love them but don't really like carrying them. The EDC X9 looks like a great carry pistol. They feel really similar in size to a Glock 19. But...I could buy a second Glock 19, a lot of ammo, and a class or two and have less invested than I would on the Wilson. You know how I feel about Glocks but I just can't rationalize the cost. At the end of the day will an EDC X9 really do anything for me that a 19 won't? Probably not.

[theJanitor]

Wilson is configuring guns to “reduce friction” and “enhance slide velocity”, using 4” low mass slides, bushingless barrels, and even reconfiguring frame rails. This aligns perfectly with many gunsmiths’ opinions that 9mm guns have a larger operating window when configured as 4 - 4 1/2” slides

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180917/cd84ca7095660bc72448e77fed0494ff.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bucky]

At the end of the day will an EDC X9 really do anything for me that a 19 won't? Probably not.

Be slimmer inside the waistband, thinner slide
Mechanical ability to shoot tight groups (precision accuracy versus combat accuracy)
Makes it easier to shoot accurate (better trigger in all respects)
Won’t chuck brass at your forehead
Not prone the malfunctions usually explained by Glock lovers caused by limp wristing.
Won’t get Glock knuckle, but you’ll get 1911 thumb if you shoot it correctly.

[StraitR]

Be slimmer inside the waistband, thinner slide
Mechanical ability to shoot tight groups (precision accuracy versus combat accuracy)
Makes it easier to shoot accurate (better trigger in all respects)
Won’t chuck brass at your forehead
Not prone the malfunctions usually explained by Glock lovers caused by limp wristing.
Won’t get Glock knuckle, but you’ll get 1911 thumb if you shoot it correctly.

Keep in mind that I'm a 9mm 1911 user/advocate, but for the purpose of information sharing, this is what Wilson has to say about grip....

30429


There is much more that flies in the face of 1911 conventional wisdom commonly exchanged via the interwebs in Wilson's Handgun FAQS (https://www.wilsoncombat.com/faqs/) section.

[MGW]

Be slimmer inside the waistband, thinner slide
Mechanical ability to shoot tight groups (precision accuracy versus combat accuracy)
Makes it easier to shoot accurate (better trigger in all respects)
Won’t chuck brass at your forehead
Not prone the malfunctions usually explained by Glock lovers caused by limp wristing.
Won’t get Glock knuckle, but you’ll get 1911 thumb if you shoot it correctly.


I’m not a Glock fan but I’ll say that the Gen 5’s I have don’t have any of the issues you listed here. The EDC really isn’t any thinner than a Glock. I understand what you are trying to say about precision vs combat accuaracy but in my experience the difference between a good 1911 and a Gen 5 Glock isn’t enough to matter. They’ll both shoot better than I can. Better trigger is personal preference. I’ve seen a lot of people struggle with SA triggers and also with Glock triggers. I happen to struggle with Glock triggers but not everyone does. Limp wristing can interrupt the cycle of any pistol.

Even if everything you say above can be proven as true, is the EDC X9 still $2000 better than a Glock? Not to me but for some people it is. And I think that’s okay.

[HCM]

Be slimmer inside the waistband, thinner slide
Mechanical ability to shoot tight groups (precision accuracy versus combat accuracy)
Makes it easier to shoot accurate (better trigger in all respects)
Won’t chuck brass at your forehead
Not prone the malfunctions usually explained by Glock lovers caused by limp wristing.
Won’t get Glock knuckle, but you’ll get 1911 thumb if you shoot it correctly.

I’ve had 1911’s which chuck brass at my head. It’s fixable on both platforms.

Any semi auto pistol will malfunction if you limp wrist it enough. Many of the so called Glock “limp wresting” issues are
Not limp writing.

The gen4 and particularly the Gen 5 Glocks are mechanically accurate. More so than most 1911s. Reality is most people can’t shoot well enough to tell the difference.

A well tuned 1911 trigger is its saving grace, if you are used to it. If not, performance will suffer.

[Robinson]

I'm a long time 1911 shooter, and I've been nothing but impressed with my Glock 34s. Very nice pistols to shoot.

Not up and selling off all my 1911s though.

[Bucky]

Keep in mind that I'm a 9mm 1911 user/advocate, but for the purpose of information sharing, this is what Wilson has to say about grip....

30429


There is much more that flies in the face of 1911 conventional wisdom commonly exchanged via the interwebs in Wilson's Handgun FAQS (https://www.wilsoncombat.com/faqs/) section.

Could be some CYA? I’ve limp wrist tested TF out of mine, and I couldn’t make it malfunction.

[Bucky]

I’m not a Glock fan but I’ll say that the Gen 5’s I have don’t have any of the issues you listed here. The EDC really isn’t any thinner than a Glock.

First off, my post was a little tongue and cheek, devils advocate (best I could do from a hospital bed - home now). Regarding thickness, though, there is noticeable difference in the slide. Below is my X9 in my G19 holster. Almost looks like I slide my LCP in next the it.

http://www.rafire.com/members/bucky/edcx9_g19holster.jpg


Better trigger is personal preference. I’ve seen a lot of people struggle with SA triggers and also with Glock triggers.

True, but let’s be honest, you take a factory EDC X9 and a factory G19, pass them around, I’m betting better than 9 out of 10 on average will say the X9 is better.



Even if everything you say above can be proven as true, [Bis the EDC X9 still $2000 better than a Glock?[/B] Not to me but for some people it is. And I think that’s okay.

No, never. The Glock is like a Camary. It’ll always start, get you were you need to go, and if maintained properly, will tick past the 100,000 mile mark a couple times or more. The EDC X9 is the $180,000 luxury -insert brand here-, nothing more than you need, just a lot more than what you want.

[Bucky]

I’ve had 1911’s which chuck brass at my head. It’s fixable on both platforms.

Any semi auto pistol will malfunction if you limp wrist it enough. Many of the so called Glock “limp wresting” issues are
Not limp writing.

The gen4 and particularly the Gen 5 Glocks are mechanically accurate. More so than most 1911s. Reality is most people can’t shoot well enough to tell the difference.

A well tuned 1911 trigger is its saving grace, if you are used to it. If not, performance will suffer.

In my opinion, a gun should pass a rigid limp wrist test, period. The one person I’ve spoken too involved in a CCW shootout began by taking a .380 to the wrist. I will never forget that. My EDC X9 passed that test without issue. However, my Gen 4 G19 passed the same test. With Glocks, there are so many made, and some batches, particularly those right after a major change ( like new generation), guns get out there that have specific problems and it sticks. (How long will we poke fun at P320 drop issue?)

As for accuracy, my post was referring to a specific pistol, the EDC X9. There is not a box Stock Glock that will come anywhere near the X9 in accuracy. Is that level of accuracy needed in a combat gun? Of course not.

[JAD]

Non-railed 1911s are slimmer in the holster, which means a little in comfort. More importantly to me, they (and all hammer fired guns) don't have the enormous striker hump that makes Glocks generally hard to conceal for me.

Other than that, 1911s are capable of having much better triggers and have a manual safety; Glocks have safer triggers unless you tard them up and have SCDs unless you're a tard. It's close enough to a wash to be a matter of taste.

[OlongJohnson]

Any semi auto pistol will malfunction if you limp wrist it enough.

There's a video out there of a USP45 being as limply wristed as it could be without falling to the ground, and it empties the mag successfully.

[TC215]

There's a video out there of a USP45 being as limply wristed as it could be without falling to the ground, and it empties the mag successfully.

We issued USP45's for 16 years. I can say with confidence that they can malfunction while being "limp-wristed".

[jetfire]

To OP’s original question, I spent the balance of 18 months testing 1911s in 9mm, and the results were interesting. These were all off the shelf models, usually priced around or under $1,000, since apparently my readers are fucking poors.

The best of the bunch was the Dan Wesson Commander in 9mm, and I regret having to send that gun back to Dan Wesson every single day.
https://youtu.be/YJhqZQTxOC8

The most surprising was a Rock Island Armory 9mm, that at final tally was over 5,000 rounds without a single failure of any type. That was a really good gun, and I used it as my main USPSA gun for a couple of years.


https://youtu.be/8O_0W2lehDA

The worst was a Springfield Armory Range Officer which was just a hunk of garbage. It was worse than the Taurus PT1911 9mm that I tested.

[OlongJohnson]

I'm starting to think that firearms manufacturing is inconsistent enough that a sample of n=1 will often lead to non-generalizable conclusions.

[jetfire]

I'm starting to think that firearms manufacturing is inconsistent enough that a sample of n=1 will often lead to non-generalizable conclusions.

I had a 9mm Kimber that ran for 1500 rounds without an issue, so yeah.

[Gary1911A1]

To OP’s original question, I spent the balance of 18 months testing 1911s in 9mm, and the results were interesting. These were all off the shelf models, usually priced around or under $1,000, since apparently my readers are fucking poors.

The best of the bunch was the Dan Wesson Commander in 9mm, and I regret having to send that gun back to Dan Wesson every single day.
https://youtu.be/YJhqZQTxOC8

The most surprising was a Rock Island Armory 9mm, that at final tally was over 5,000 rounds without a single failure of any type. That was a really good gun, and I used it as my main USPSA gun for a couple of years.


https://youtu.be/8O_0W2lehDA

The worst was a Springfield Armory Range Officer which was just a hunk of garbage. It was worse than the Taurus PT1911 9mm that I tested.

I followed your tests and enjoyed them. If you ever decide to test another one please consider the Rugers.

[ranger]

I have a Springfield Armory 1911 5inch Range Officer 9mm that has been very, very good. Sample size of one, etc. I also have good luck with Brownells brand 9mm 1911 mags - had one that would not lock slide back and Brownells sent me a replacement and said keep the "bad" one.

[mmc45414]

I also have good luck with Brownells brand 9mm 1911 mags.My two pistols are Rugers and they do not drop free in my guns (the Wilsons do). I attribute this to probably just a little variation in the mag well dimensions, probably a Ruger thing and not a Brownells thing. I will have to confirm how many I have, PM me if you want to make a deal on them...

[Dismas316]

To OP’s original question, I spent the balance of 18 months testing 1911s in 9mm, and the results were interesting. These were all off the shelf models, usually priced around or under $1,000, since apparently my readers are fucking poors.

The best of the bunch was the Dan Wesson Commander in 9mm, and I regret having to send that gun back to Dan Wesson every single day.

I’ve watched most of your videos, they were very informative and helpful, the one about the Valkyrie had me looking pretty hard at that one. The extra round and to bobtail grip was mainly the deciding factor and if I remember, GB didn’t have any I could find that would satisfy my impulse buy two weeks ago. Lol

I mentioned in my op, I have resisted the 1911’s for a variety of reason, more of the obvious ones,but they really are fun to shoot. Sending my slide back today to get a taller front post to correct the poa/poi. I have a bad feeling that this won’t be my last one.

[Tamara]

I'm starting to think that firearms manufacturing is inconsistent enough that a sample of n=1 will often lead to non-generalizable conclusions.

Especially with a design like the 1911.

Example: We had a 5" Bul double-stack in the rental case at CCA that was both tack-driving accurate and stupid reliable, and therefore sold a bunch of Buls and the badge-engineered Kimber Ten II's. Oops. Too bad it turned out that gun was a freakish anomaly.

[psalms144.1]

Well, as of today, Wilson Combat is an approved manufacturer for personally owned weapons for my agency - so how do I start a GO FUND ME so I can be the first Fed rocking a EDC X9?

[WobblyPossum]

Well, as of today, Wilson Combat is an approved manufacturer for personally owned weapons for my agency - so how do I start a GO FUND ME so I can be the first Fed rocking a EDC X9?

I’d donate.