Using Full-Size Magazines as a Reload for a Subcompact?

[revchuck38]

I recently bought my first subcompact autoloader, a Walther P99c in 9x19, for times when my full-size PX4 is too big to conveniently conceal. The standard mags hold ten rounds and are available, if somewhat pricey. I'm thinking about getting a couple of 15-round mags for the full-size version and using the sleeves available from Walther, similar to the setups available for the PX4 subcompact and the M&P compact, and using them for my reload mag. The obvious advantage is that it gives me an additional five rounds on board vs. the standard mag. Cost-wise it's a wash because I can get a full-size SW99 mag and the sleeve for about the same price as a P99c mag.

Is there a downside to this, or am I looking at a free lunch?

[43Under]

In my experience, the main downside is if you utilize on of those grip adapters on the spare mag, the type that fits on the bottom portion of the magazine and makes the grip feel more like the pistol's full-size cousin. These are generally the cause of painful blood blisters!

You also will want to be sure that your particular pistol functions well with the extended magazine especially when you apply pressure to them (I.e. using them to grip when firing).

[einherjarvalk]

I think if you're carrying one at all, you may as well go full size on the reload. I know one of the interesting bits John from Active Self Protection has taken away from doing his channel is that a reload has never once come into play in any of the CCW-involved gunfights he's seen.

However, I think there's definitely a case to be made for having one on you for malfunction clearing or to top off while you wait for police to arrive in the immediate aftermath of a DGU where you may not know if the person you just stopped has backup of his own coming. If you're going to have a mag for those reasons, there doesn't seem to be much downside to having as much ammo as you can. Statistics may say it's unnecessary but I personally don't like the idea of being an outlier here.

[TGS]

Personally I find it much easier to reload with a full size mag compared to a subcompact mag.

I don't think you're missing anything. One thing I would add is to consider not using the sleeve on the spare reload. They work great on a mag that is already seated in the gun, not so much on a reload because they have a tendency to shift position. The X-Grip I use for P30 mags in my P2000 does this, at least. If I were wearing one as a reload, it will have shifted somewhere down the mag body when I go to grab it, resulting in a fumbled reload to some degree.

The gun will work without using an adapter sleeve, so just ditch it for an EDC reload.

[1slow]

Reloading full size mags without sleeves helps prevent blood blisters. I found this out about 1998 when I went from GL21s to GL30s.

Short mags and big hands + fast reloads = blood blister. Plus if i need a reload, I need MORE ammo. Full sized mags for my big hands seem to handle better in a reload.

[willie]

I admit that I don't carry spare mags on my person. I keep a couple 33 rd stick mags in my vehicle when traveling with a Glock.

[03RN]

I carry 10rd Wilson mags when I carry a 1911, g17 mags with my g19, and 18 rd MEC gar mags with my m9A1 Compact.

I don't use the grip adapters either for the latter 2. Between getting skin caught and them shifting to induce a malfunction I'd rather go without.

[Duelist]

I think if you're carrying one at all, you may as well go full size on the reload. I know one of the interesting bits John from Active Self Protection has taken away from doing his channel is that a reload has never once come into play in any of the CCW-involved gunfights he's seen.

However, I think there's definitely a case to be made for having one on you for malfunction clearing or to top off while you wait for police to arrive in the immediate aftermath of a DGU where you may not know if the person you just stopped has backup of his own coming. If you're going to have a mag for those reasons, there doesn't seem to be much downside to having as much ammo as you can. Statistics may say it's unnecessary but I personally don't like the idea of being an outlier here.

I like John C and his work. I met him at a class we were both taking.

I don't care whether a reload has played a role in any of the videos he's found. I agree that the odds are against needing one, but the odds are against needing a gun, too. Most agree that you're more likely to run out of time than bullets. Again, I don't care. A reload isn't a huge burden, so when I carry a gun, whatever I'm carrying, I carry at least one reload for it. At the very least, I can have a full gun again after the fight is over.

In the past year, the vast majority of my carrying has been a G26.3 with a flat base plate 10rd magazine. The spare, most of the time, has been a 15rd G19 magazine with no sleeve. I have a couple of factory 12rd magazines with the extension, and one 10 with the +0 pinky extension. Blood blisters waiting to happen. The long G19 or G17 magazine sans sleeve slide right into the stubby little grip and cause no problems whatsoever. My pinky grabs onto that mag tube just fine, even without a sleeve on it.

[Balisong]

+1 on not bothering with a sleeve on a reload. When I carry my glock 27 I have a G22 mag as a reload. When I'm practicing with my USPc (transitioning it to my EDC) I have a P30 mag as a reload, although that's only 1 more round (in .40), but it's easier to grab in a hurry. The sleeves just add unnecessary bulk and as others have said can brutally pinch you. I think they're fine though as an option say on a dedicated nightstand magazine, if you need to use a compact/subcompact in a dual role where you slap in the sleeved magazine when you get home until you're ready to CCW it again

[David C.]

In the case of the P99c, the magazine adapter sleeve for the fullsize magazine acts as a magazine stop to prevent over-insertion with the shortened grip. Walther says to use the adapter to avoid damage to the ejector. See Section 4.2.1 of the P99 manual. Take the slide off the frame and insert a fullsize magazine and you will understand the issue.

For carry use, I would not sweat it and would carry the spare however I liked. For range use, I use the adapter.

[leathermaneod]

Be careful on not using an adapter sleeve on a larger grip. Make sure it doesn’t damage the particular gun you are using. I did it with the Shield I used to have and the magazine went in too far and bent the ejector. I know this doesn’t happen with Glocks, but idk about any others.


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[WobblyPossum]

As others have mentioned, make sure the adapter sleeve isn’t also acting as an over insertion stop. All Glock magazines have a built in over insertion stop so it doesn’t matter if you jam a G17 mag into a G26. The same does not hold true for all other manufacturers. It would suck to be that one guy ever who needed to reload during his ccw shooting only to render your gun inoperable by over inserting your spare mag.



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[olstyn]

In the case of the P99c, the magazine adapter sleeve for the fullsize magazine acts as a magazine stop to prevent over-insertion with the shortened grip. Walther says to use the adapter to avoid damage to the ejector. See Section 4.2.1 of the P99 manual. Take the slide off the frame and insert a fullsize magazine and you will understand the issue.

For carry use, I would not sweat it and would carry the spare however I liked. For range use, I use the adapter.

Yup, not a good idea to do an aggressive insertion of a full-size mag into a P99c without the sleeve. Once the mag is locked in, unless you're teacupping the gun, I doubt you'd have an issue.

[BobM]

I’ve read, I believe here on this forum, that agencies using compact and full size M&Ps have seen issues when reloading the compacts. I think there can be ejector damage if the full size mag is rammed in too hard

[Beat Trash]

I’ve seen M&P compacts (gen 1, 12 round version) damaged by over insertion of a full sized magazine under stress. Usually bends the ejector if I remember correctly. It’s rare only because the officers who choose to be issued the compact vs. the full size gun are issued the compact magazines. It’s when you have someone issued the compact who is a shooter and decides to train using the full size magazines that the issues pops up.

One advantage of the design of the Glock platform is the magazines have a shelf design into them that acts to prevent over inserting the magazine.

[Dagga Boy]

I have used large reload mags on my guns since I started carry 20 round spares to my SiG P226 back in the mid 80’s. Currently I have 20 round spares for my PX4CC’s for daily carry and work. Chances are you will not “need” to do a reload. I can about guarantee I will want to at some point and if that is going to happen I want as much on board is practical to either get me out of a hostile crowd or bad area while awaiting law enforcement.

[MDFA]

I always use full size mags as spare mags.

While statistics say you won't need a reload, they also say you won't be in a gunfight. If you find yourself in a gunfight, all the statistics in the world just went out the window for you.

Unless your on fire or drowning, you will never wish you had less ammo.

[STI]

Duty gun sized mags are larger and easier to manipulate and often have the most reliable springs and followers.

[Dagga Boy]

Duty gun sized mags are larger and easier to manipulate and often have the most reliable springs and followers.

Some are exceptions to this. Things like the Glock 27 do not do well with something like a Glock 22 magazine because they have a super short slide moving really fast can out run the ability for a longer magazine to push rounds up fast enough.

[ST911]

Some are exceptions to this. Things like the Glock 27 do not do well with something like a Glock 22 magazine because they have a super short slide moving really fast can out run the ability for a longer magazine to push rounds up fast enough.

Unable to quantify, but I’ve found the 9mms to be less susceptible to this than 40s, as there is more going on with the latter. And point of reference in support of your point... the g26/27/33 use the same mag spring of their larger g19/23/32 siblings.

[Dagga Boy]

Unable to quantify, but I’ve found the 9mms to be less susceptible to this than 40s, as there is more going on with the latter. And point of reference in support of your point... the g26/27/33 use the same mag spring of their larger g19/23/32 siblings.

I could reliably run 30 round mags in a G26. My G 27 was not reliable enough with G22 mags to use them as spares. Just one of those things people should test extensively before they daily carry them.

[EricG]

I did a couple classes with a M&P 9 compact with a 17 round reload with sleeve and quickly found that sleeve gave me a couple issues.

1. The position of that sleeve was not always constant when I went to grab it. Not really a huge deal until you want a firm grip and that thing was dancing up and down the mag.

2. When I hit the mag release with the 17 rounder and sleeve, it didn't release with enough authority. Several times I had to snatch it out.

I rarely do a full size spare mag, but when I do, it's sleeveless.

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[Glenn E. Meyer]

About needing a reload, I saw an interview or read one of the guys who entered the Westgate Mall in Kenya when the government forces stayed out. They were keenly aware that they had limited ammo as they didn't have extra pistol mags. But that is a low probably but high intensity event.

To the thread topic. I carry a G26 mag and standard mags for reloads. I want the grip on the gun to be unchanged through it's usage. In a match, the SO suggested a higher cap back up. I said what I just said and he said it made sense. I have a pouch for two mags. That should be enough for the Zombies.

For a bug - my G42 - if I decided to carry it as a primary, I found a neat two mag belt pouch and a two mag cargo pocket pouch from DeSantis. It fits very well in the cargo pocket. Thus, I have 4 extra mags - 6 rounds each. Yeah, I should carry my G17 - sue me. I usually carry the 26 or 19 but sometimes I want to pocket carry the 42 with the 4 extra mags. Again, sue me.

[flyrodr]

I've found I tend to use the adapters on extended mags for some subcompacts, and don't use them on other models of subcompacts. I too found some adapters moved up the body of the magazine, but about half a wrap of a not-too-slick cloth tape (gaffer's tape is great) at the base of the mag body under the adapter will keep it in place. Don't recall any problems with mags failing to drop when released, except when the palm of my hand was still against the mag adapter. That has happened several times; operator error.

[TAZ]

Don’t really like the sleeve thingies. The ONE time I used one I pinched the crap out of my hand slamming a reload home. I figure if I’m reloading aesthetics is about the least of my worries.

I carry a Magpul 21 rounder as my reload for either the 19 or 19x. The 42 just gets 3 extra mags in the pocket if I’m going super light.

[olstyn]

2. When I hit the mag release with the 17 rounder and sleeve, it didn't release with enough authority. Several times I had to snatch it out.

Sleeve dragging on your hand? I could see that causing some interference.

[Bart Carter]

I have been using a Walther P99C for over two years as my daily carry. My spare magazine is a full size with the sleeve. The sleeve was designed to prevent over-insertion damage. Just like all compacts, you should practice reloads to prevent pinching your hand. I have first hand knowledge of the needed practice. :p

[EricG]

Sleeve dragging on your hand? I could see that causing some interference.That very well could be. I will have to isolate that to find out for sure.

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[BillSWPA]

I have always carried the specific size magazines for my gun as reloads. Part of this may come from having commenced carrying concealed in 1996, during the Clinton ban. Obtainable Glock magazines above 10 rounds were either unreliable, expensive, or both. I ended up with a few ProMags and a couple of very well used OEM magazines. At that time, I was not able to get a 15 round magazine to function reliably in my Glock 26. Now that good quality 15 round G19 magazines are inexpensive and plentiful, I may have to revisit that issue.



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[Balisong]

I could reliably run 30 round mags in a G26. My G 27 was not reliable enough with G22 mags to use them as spares. Just one of those things people should test extensively before they daily carry them.

This is interesting, I'd never heard of that issue before. I've put a few hundred rounds through my G27 with the G22 backup mags I use, including around 150 rounds of defense ammo and hadn't had any problems. I will keep an eye on it and retest it though occasionally.

[revchuck38]

Thanks to all for the input! Looks like the sleeves are optional for Glocks but needed for other pistols. I ordered two (from Midway) and will order a pair of mags from CDNN when I get off work today. I'll pick up the Walther this afternoon from the LGS and put 100+ rounds through it this afternoon. :)

[Darth_Uno]

Statistics may say it's unnecessary but I personally don't like the idea of being an outlier here.

Right. You don't want to be the "guy" in "except for that one guy".

I'm a proponent of full size reloads.
1) Why not, more is better.
2) It's practically no more difficult to carry a full size mag than a shorter mag
3) More to grab under stress

[psalms144.1]

I'm late to respond, but I've always found the "sleeves" make things harder for me, and more likely to induce a pinch during reloads. I use full size mags as reloads for G26/G19, P30 mags in P2000, etc, and have never had an issue NOT using the "sleeves"

[revchuck38]

According to the description on Midway’s website, the Walther sleeve replaces the basepad, so it shouldn’t move. I’ll be aware of the pinch issue when practicing, thanks for the heads-up!

[fly out]

The factory grip extension for the 99c (547869) does not replace the base plate. It slides down the tube and snuggles up against the existing base plate. Midway's description is wrong but the picture is correct for what you will receive.

[That Guy]

In the case of the P99c, the magazine adapter sleeve for the fullsize magazine acts as a magazine stop to prevent over-insertion with the shortened grip. Walther says to use the adapter to avoid damage to the ejector.

Very much this (same thing with a full sized P99 and extended magazines, as well). Some bad advice in this thread from usually knowledgeable folks who do not know all the quirks of the particular pistol discussed.

[Dagga Boy]

For what it’s worth, you need to take it a little easy on the full size mags going in on an out of battery speed reload. Slamming the crap out of a large magazine into a sub compact can get ugly. I have seen some real issues with 10 round 1911’s in particular.

[revchuck38]

The factory grip extension for the 99c (547869) does not replace the base plate. It slides down the tube and snuggles up against the existing base plate. Midway's description is wrong but the picture is correct for what you will receive.

Well, humbug. Worst case, I'll have some range mags with extra capacity. It's worth a try!

[revchuck38]

I went to the range today to work on reloads with the P99C, since it's my first paddle mag release gun. Things went a bit clumsily at first but steadily improved to the point where my reloads with the paddle were about as slow as they are with the push button. :rolleyes:

Big learning point about using the full-size mags with the sleeve...while the compact mags eject cleanly, the FS ones don't. The sleeve becomes part of the grip when the mag is inserted, and the sleeve holds onto the heel of my hand wonderfully well when I hit the paddle. In the context of carrying the gun this isn't an issue, since I carry it with the compact mag inserted and the full-size one as a reload, but it could really mess me up in a match.

[Bucky]

Be careful on not using an adapter sleeve on a larger grip. Make sure it doesn’t damage the particular gun you are using. I did it with the Shield I used to have and the magazine went in too far and bent the ejector. I know this doesn’t happen with Glocks, but idk about any others.


This is an excellent point. One of the excellent design features of the Glock is the mag “stop” is at the top of the magazine, which puts it in the same place on all models, regardless of grip length or mag length. Most other guns rely on the base plate making contact with the grip. With an oversized magazine, the magazine can over insert and contact the ejector. This is especially problematic in single stack guns. This is why 10 round 1911 magazines have a welded stop (or similar) to prevent this.

The only other gun that looks like it has a feature similar to the Glock is the APX. It appears / I believe that’s what the protrusion on the front of its mag is for.