Jacksonville Mass Shooting

[Chance]

From BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45315970):


Several people have been killed in a shooting at an entertainment complex in Jacksonville, Florida, police say.

The suspected gunman, a white male, was dead at the scene and no other suspects were being sought, the sheriff's office said.

An unspecified number of people were also wounded in the incident.

The shooting happened during a video game tournament being held at Jacksonville Landing.

Many shots can be heard in a video that appears to show the event being streamed online on the Twitch platform.

[Otaku.edc]

I stopped working the Arts Walk on the First Wednesday night of every month because of a shooting there last year. I work a Friday Lunch (in a food truck) one block west of where the picture is taken in the article.

Nights and weekends make that place qualify as a Stupid Place to be, because it attracts the other two kinds of Stupid.

How businesses are able to make any money in that place is beyond me, half of it is closed store fronts.

[Lon]

Sucks. I read 4 dead and at least 11 injured.

I’m in FL right now on “workation” with the wife. We’re at a mall near Orlando. Got this notification while we were here at the mall. I’m packing my 2” Model 10 and a couple of speedloaders. I leave it here in FL with my dad for when I visit. Easier than flying with a pistol. But I definitely wouldn’t be out and about without something. When my wife heard about this incident, she looked at me and verified I was carrying. Silly wife.

[Guinnessman]

Several years ago while in Jacksonville for work, two of us walked over to the Landing for lunch. As we left a restaurant we witnessed two guys mug and rob another male. We took off towards the hotel and luckily ran into two police officers. We told them what happened and they were on their way.

Ever since that incident, I rarely leave the hotel in Jax if I need to go there for work. Fortunately seniority has its perks, and I can avoid it no problem.

[LockedBreech]

The recording of the live streamer where you can hear gunshots and people being shot was pretty haunting. Sounded like a handgun but that's pure speculation.

Advisory for disturbing content.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/madden-19-jacksonville-shooting/h_000eb62f06dd4060f2df9cb89cb33070

[HCountyGuy]

I’ve heard this place (the landing) was declared a gun-free zone. Somebody missed that memo I guess.

Glad the shooter is dead, but I’d guess it was self-inflicted. Should’ve started and ended at that.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

There’s a video of a red dot apperaring on seated gamer. Video stops before a shot.

[Totem Polar]

I’m packing my 2” Model 10 and a couple of speedloaders. I leave it here in FL with my dad for when I visit. Easier than flying with a pistol...

Without taking away from he gravity of this thread, I want to excerpt this for a sec. ^^^Brilliant.

That is a great solution for any reasonable place that one flies to regularly. Good thinking.

[HCM]

With all the normal preemptions regarding early reports....

Report is the shooter was a player in the video game tournament who lost.

[Totem Polar]

With all the normal preemptions regarding early reports....

Report is the shooter was a player in the video game tournament who lost.

Good grief.

[HCountyGuy]

With all the normal preemptions regarding early reports....

Report is the shooter was a player in the video game tournament who lost.

So now we’re going to have a two-fer from the media:

A. Guns are bad.
B. Video games make you violent.

[Tamara]

With all the normal preemptions regarding early reports....

Report is the shooter was a player in the video game tournament who lost.

Waiting for Dave Grossman to run his suck now.

[Casual Friday]

With all the normal preemptions regarding early reports....

Report is the shooter was a player in the video game tournament who lost.


Good grief.

That's what it's looking like. After watching one of the neighbor kids have an absolute come apart meltdown over Fortnite at my nephews birthday party yesterday, I'm thankful my kids have zero interest in video games.

[Peally]

People that sit around taking video of these incidents versus being useful need to be deported.

[Otaku.edc]

Thankful the extent of my video game mania was the Nintendo 64 and GOLDEN EYE.

Unfortunately, I discovered the internet. Then Social Media.

[Lon]

Without taking away from he gravity of this thread, I want to excerpt this for a sec. ^^^Brilliant.

That is a great solution for any reasonable place that one flies to regularly. Good thinking.

Thanks. After Mom died last year I drove Dad back to FL and figured I’d be making more trips down here in the future. So left the 10, some ammo and a couple holsters down here.

[StraitR]

Just as the gun cannot be blamed for acts of violence, neither can the video game. More senseless killing because a person couldn't process reality and cope.

Prayers for the families and friends of those killed. May they rest in peace.

[Tamara]

After watching one of the neighbor kids have an absolute come apart meltdown over Fortnite at my nephews birthday party yesterday, I'm thankful my kids have zero interest in video games.

Kids have total come apart meltdowns over whatever because they're kids and have zero sense of proportion, not because of video games.

I remember contemplating suicide because my parents wouldn't let me spend the night at a friend's house when I'd never played anything but Pong at home and Space Invaders at Pizza Hut.

[StraitR]

....Space Invaders at Pizza Hut.


Ahhh, table Space Invaders at Pizza Hut. Now that takes me back.

[Casual Friday]

Kids have total come apart meltdowns over whatever because they're kids and have zero sense of proportion, not because of video games.

I remember contemplating suicide because my parents wouldn't let me spend the night at a friend's house when I'd never played anything but Pong at home and Space Invaders at Pizza Hut.

I didn't make the connection that video games were to blame for the shooting. I simply stated I was glad mine weren't into them....and I'm pretty sure getting beat badly at Fortnite was what caused little Damien to throw his tantrum. I can't speak to your mental condition as a child or the environment you grew up in, but, as someone who has kids, those types of tantrums aren't the norm.

[LockedBreech]

That's what it's looking like. After watching one of the neighbor kids have an absolute come apart meltdown over Fortnite at my nephews birthday party yesterday, I'm thankful my kids have zero interest in video games.

As a 25-year gamer and 25-year shooter (started both around age 5) it’s very frustrating that the shooting community turns on video games as a scapegoat so quickly (no offense and not calling you out particularly).

I played GTA, I played Doom, I played Carmageddon, I played Postal, I played Manhunt. I have never so much as used fighting words.

The difference is the same difference it always is, where the whipping boy is guns, video games, comic books, rock music, or whatever. I had attentive parents with strict rules who cared about me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tamara]

....and I'm pretty sure getting beat badly at Fortnite was what caused little Damien to throw his tantrum.

Was it a special and unique kind of tantrum, different to the kind kids had when they got beat at tiddly-winks or marbles back before video games had been invented?

Do you think it's some special frequency in the images on the screen that predisposes these modern kids to heretofore unimagined freakouts? I'm interested in what you think the science is behind this.

[Tamara]

I played GTA, I played Doom, I played Carmageddon, I played Postal, I played Manhunt. I have never so much as used fighting words.

Weird, huh? Meanwhile, kids in Rwanda who'd never even *seen* a video game were cutting people up with machetes. Huh.

[HCM]

Waiting for Dave Grossman to run his suck now.


And it was Madden Football. Imagine if it was call of duty.

Whether Grossman is right or wrong, there is a higher than normal percentage of douchebaggery among high level gamers. The various “SAWTing” incidents over video games being a prime example.

[Tamara]

And it was Madden Football. Imagine if it was call of duty.

Like Grossman knows the difference. :D

[einherjarvalk]

https://www.news4jax.com/news/mass-shooting-at-jacksonville-landing

Updated story has the casualty count at 2 dead plus the shooter, 12 injured. Shooter himself was not from Jacksonville, but had traveled there from Maryland. Certainly not the first time people have been killed over a Madden loss, nor will it be the last, sadly. Working at Gamestop for 2 years in college is the main reason I got my CHL at 21.

Time to patiently wait to see which Democrat decides to rail against laser sights now, since they're no good for hunting and scare away the deer or some shit.

[OlongJohnson]

I didn't make the connection that video games were to blame for the shooting. I simply stated I was glad mine weren't into them....and I'm pretty sure getting beat badly at Fortnite was what caused little Damien to throw his tantrum. I can't speak to your mental condition as a child or the environment you grew up in, but, as someone who has kids, those types of tantrums aren't the norm.

Is that kind of tantrum something that little Damien does regularly? Does it work with his parents to get him results he likes? If its effective, it probably happens a lot.

I reckon such a performance on the part of your kids would not yield desirable results, ergo you never see it.

[Casual Friday]

As a 25-year gamer and 25-year shooter (started both around age 5) it’s very frustrating that the shooting community turns on video games as a scapegoat so quickly (no offense and not calling you out particularly).

I played GTA, I played Doom, I played Carmageddon, I played Postal, I played Manhunt. I have never so much as used fighting words.

The difference is the same difference it always is, where the whipping boy is guns, video games, comic books, rock music, or whatever. I had attentive parents with strict rules who cared about me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think the problem is the games, I think it's unhealthy for kids to play video games for the amount of hours that most seem to. I had an Atari, then a Nintendo, then a Sega. I never played any of them for more than an hour at a time a few times a week. Kids nowadays are playing several hours a day, several days of the week. Some spend their entire summer break playing video games. I don't think it causes them to turn school shooter, but I have a hard time believing there's no negative side effects.


Was it a special and unique kind of tantrum, different to the kind kids had when they got beat at tiddly-winks or marbles back before video games had been invented?

Do you think it's some special frequency in the images on the screen that predisposes these modern kids to heretofore unimagined freakouts? I'm interested in what you think the science is behind this.

I never witnessed the entire time I was growing up a 12 or 13 year old kid throw that kind of tantrum over any kind of game. We're not talking about a kid going through the terrible twos. My sister works with kids with developmental problems. In the past 10 years, she has seen a huge uptick in kids that are nonverbal at age 5 and older, among a whole bunch of other developmental delays, and the spike has closely followed the rise in popularity of electronic usage among small kids. For me, worrying about my kids being school shooters is very low on the list of reasons I'm glad they don't like video games.

[Casual Friday]

Weird, huh? Meanwhile, kids in Rwanda who'd never even *seen* a video game were cutting people up with machetes. Huh.

Right. Them being subjected to poverty, famine, genocide, and other third world problems probably had something to do with it though.


Is that kind of tantrum something that little Damien does regularly? Does it work with his parents to get him results he likes? If its effective, it probably happens a lot.

I reckon such a performance on the part of your kids would not yield desirable results, ergo you never see it.

I've been around the kid a half dozen times, I've never seen it. My bro and sister in law haven't either. I don't know if it happens at home but all those familiar with the boy were a bit surprised by it.

[einherjarvalk]

I'll offer my wholly-unscientific $0.02 on the games -> violence link: it's an ego issue.

I grew up being a "gamer" in the most extreme degree. It was pretty much the only thing I did for fun, to the point where the closest brush with popularity I had in high school was being "that guy who knows everything about Halo 2." However, I also had pretty severe anger issues, and not only were those exacerbated by video games, they persisted well into adulthood. I still occasionally have brushes with serious frustration playing games (though it's largely more self-inflicted now), but at one point I was literally breaking controllers in fits of rage.

I don't want to say I "grew out of it," per se, but my interests shifted and I started having less time to play competitively. When you play games at a sufficiently high level, the metagame becomes apparent and staying at that level requires you to likewise stay up to date on what the meta is so as to wring out every last bit of performance from your gameplay. Going from a modest college workload to full time employment basically killed my ability to stay up to date on the meta of whatever games I played seriously at the time, and I started playing more single-player, story-focused games instead while also taking competitive games much less seriously. Stepping back from that made me realize that I stopped getting so angry at games in large part because I started accepting my limitations. Okay, that guy is utterly crushing me, but that's because he's probably a teenager with a lot of time to kill and a lot of muscle memory built. Nothing I can do about that unless I invest the same amount of time and effort, and I have neither the ability nor will to do either just to ensure I stay on top of the scoreboard in the occasional bout of Titanfall.

Once I let go of the "ego" bit because I realized that no, I simply could not be as good as the best players anymore due to age and responsibilities, I got a lot happier even playing a lot less. Likewise, picking up shooting has made me check my ego severely - there's no such thing as glitches or exploits or lag to blame in real life. The targets don't lie; I had to humble myself and accept failure as part and parcel of the experience. My flaws are my flaws and no one else's.

Long story short, I think a lot of kids these days are getting too tied up in the ego-boosting rush of competitive video games. We all know there's something really enjoyable about being told you're the best. The problem is that witnessing people build up to that top level of performance isn't really seen in the gaming community, especially now. You're either a feeder or you're getting sponsored on Twitch to play full time, and kids who haven't been taught humility, how to check their own egos, and how to take a loss by their parents take that way more personally than they really ought to. When your skill at a video game is your defining skillset, you have no sense of humility, and then you get told it's not good enough to go pro? Shit like this happens.

I wormed my way out of playing youth sports as soon as I could, but after seeing things like this and Fortnite tantrums and whatnot? You bet your ass my kids are gonna find themselves on a baseball diamond at a young age.

[LockedBreech]

I wormed my way out of playing youth sports as soon as I could, but after seeing things like this and Fortnite tantrums and whatnot? You bet your ass my kids are gonna find themselves on a baseball diamond at a young age.

My dad and mom let me play video games, but yes, also had me do little league, basketball, track, speech, my chores, jobs, take care of the animals, learn to shoot and change a tire, etc. That's why I so firmly think the answer is good parenting. Anything is okay in moderation. I don't think there's anything wrong with hours and hours a day. Just not every day or most days. People will burn conservatively 4-6 hours watching football on the weekends but I have always rejected that I'm a weirdo for playing Call of Duty the same span of time as long as my other stuff is done.

On a side note, you mentioned Titanfall. I love those games. I was very, very briefly (like a day or two, before the game got shipped out enough) a top-100 global player on Titanfall during law school. Those games are amazingly cool stress relief. I get a few Titanfall 2 bouts in per week still.

[vandal]

We were pretty strict with our kids when they were young, severely limiting screen time and content. We let the leash out more and more as my son got into his later teens and prepared to leave the house, just to see what he'd do with it. (We just dropped him off at university last week).

All the while we told him what we still firmly believe: Gaming has at best zero life value, and serious gaming is a serious misallocation of time and energy. The idea that someone would aspire to get their livelihood from playing video games is really depressing.

That said I don't find the oft-asserted connection between violent content in video games and actual violence to be persuasive.

However I'm sure that immersing oneself in an any virtual world devoid of a social contract, and giving it a higher emotional priority than the real world, or to the exclusion of the real world, is unhealthy, and combined with pre-existing conditions like some degree of autism (which I'm guessing may be the case here), abuse (for which a virtual world may be an escape), and access to a weapon -- is a predictably bad combination.

Do any video games encourage putting others first? Demonstrating service, kindness, goodness? I haven't seen one like that. Rather they all put the player at the center of the universe and everything and everyone else is a means to an end.

[einherjarvalk]

Do any video games encourage putting others first? Demonstrating service, kindness, goodness? I haven't seen one like that. Rather they all put the player at the center of the universe and everything and everyone else is a means to an end.

Those tend to be the single-player focused games, and even then they're rare.

That said, Nier: Automata was one I played last year that explored a lot of deeper themes than I expected, including the concept of self-sacrifice and helping others in a sequence that I really don't want to spoil on the off chance someone reading this has it on their to-play list. It's a masterfully planned and executed "scene," and one that legitimately brought me to tears by the end because of the way the director actually forces you to put some skin in the game in order to provide support to a real person you will never meet and gives you damn good reason to consider doing it. I was completely blown away in a way I haven't been since Metal Gear Solid 2's ending, and it's an emotional experience that absolutely could not be done through any other form of media. I am not exaggerating in the slightest when I say it will be looked back on down the line as a defining artistic moment in the medium.

There's plenty of videos out there that explain exactly what it is if you're curious and don't want to invest 40+ hours getting the prerequisites for ending E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ReSKu1TblQ), but I still encourage people to play the game itself if it even remotely piques their interests. Very much a case of "don't judge a book by its cover," as a lot of the attention it initially got was over skimpy costumes. Awful lot of people bought this game and got something wildly different from what they expected.

The short version of what it's trying to say is a very simple message: even if everything seems hopeless, there are still good, selfless people in the world, and you can choose to be one of them - but you do have to choose to be one.

[LockedBreech]

Do any video games encourage putting others first? Demonstrating service, kindness, goodness? I haven't seen one like that. Rather they all put the player at the center of the universe and everything and everyone else is a means to an end.

The Mass Effect series, Knights of the Old Republic series, Dishonored series, Homeworld, the Fallout series, The Last of Us series, the Bioshock series, off the top of my head, are all games that have drastically different ends and paths which highlight the meaning and value of sacrifice, loyalty, honesty, friendship, and the fight against hatred and evil. Things aren’t Doom and Call of Duty anymore. I’ve seen far deeper and more meaningful stories in games the last 5 years than I have in movies.

In fact, even one of the Call of Duty games, which are often chided for being the most shallow and violent, specifically Modern Warfare, had a dramatic ending plot that emphasized the value of true patriotism and valuing honor, truth, and sacrifice over rank and power.

I believe games have reached the level of movies and books in their storytelling ability, it’s just all about picking the right ones. I very strongly disagree they are valueless in moderation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Drang]

https://www.news4jax.com/news/mass-shooting-at-jacksonville-landing

Updated story has the casualty count at 2 dead plus the shooter, 12 injured. Shooter himself was not from Jacksonville, but had traveled there from Maryland.
Yep. Another case of a gun travelling from a state with easy laws to a state with... Huh?

[Bucky]

Yep. Another case of a gun travelling from a state with easy laws to a state with... Huh?

Yes, that irony was not lost on me as well.

[Chance]

Do any video games encourage putting others first? Demonstrating service, kindness, goodness?

This is a very common theme in RPGs. That would be the "role" you choose to play in the "role playing game."

[ssb]

I doubt it's game content that made the guy willing to shoot up his competition, but I'll take a wild guess and say he probably spent a period of years where the majority of his free time was spent being socialized by anonymous gamers on the other end rather than doing things like working, hanging out with friends, and so on. To get good at these sorts of things you've got to devote hours upon hours to them, just as you would anything else. But, unlike doing something tangible and in person, the way you vent your frustrations has basically zero consequence -- you can say whatever you want, and indeed there's almost a competition at times to see who can be the most absurd, over the top, etc. Saying things that would get the shit beat out of you in person, are instead encouraged. Online gaming culture is weird and I'm very glad I'm not into it anymore.

[HCountyGuy]

Einherjarvalk and I seem to have pretty similar thoughts and experiences. Yeah, I broke a few things in my earlier years gaming and then calmed down once I quit taking shit so serious/personal. Found better games that encouraged teamwork and promoted camaraderie, MMORPGs actually do that pretty well and I fostered some real-life friendships from them. I played the hell out of Star Wars Galaxies and The Old Republic for a while. They were nice escapes from the constraints of reality and how much it could suck at times.

Getting lost in immersive worlds where you could do or be basically whatever you wanted has its appeal.

This guy took losing to an unnecessary and unhealthy extreme. Similar behaviors to those who have SWAT’ed fellow gamers. Those guys are assholes.

[Artemas2]

Video games, particular competitive one do require some degree of emotional investment. I had a wall of shame made up of smashed 360 controllers from my Halo 3/reach days when we played for money. This ass clearly took that to the extreme, but to say "he did this over a game" would be disingenuous.

The word "video game" is much broader in scope now than it was 20 years ago.

[VT1032]

Video games, particular competitive one do require some degree of emotional investment. I had a wall of shame made up of smashed 360 controllers from my Halo 3/reach days when we played for money. This ass clearly took that to the extreme, but to say "he did this over a game" would be disingenuous.

The word "video game" is much broader in scope now than it was 20 years ago.

This... It's not the game, it's the competitiveness that drives people nuts. I've experienced feelings similar to road rage during online gaming vs other people. It had nothing to do with the game and everything to do with the people.

My dad is in the camp that video games are vapid wastes of time and my standard response to him is, "how do you justify television?" to which he has no response usually. Video games are TV and movies that you can control, nothing more.

I'll also add that it's a dangerous, slippery slope when we start blaming inanimate objects for human actions and emotions...

[TAZ]

The guy was freaking unhinged. It’s that effing simple. If it wasn’t at this “tournament”, it would have been somewhere that pissed him off.

I played some video games as a youth. I watched über violent movies, snuck into Walden books and looked at the playboy/penthouse mags. Yes, I am that old, and no I didn’t read it. Played cowboys and Indians, cops and robbers and other iterations where we simulated killing as many of our enemies as possible. I turned out ok, at least according to the voices in my head. Mainly cause my parents instilled a fundamental set of beliefs into my teeny brain from an early age. We were made to understand the difference between pretend violence and real violence. Most importantly when real violence was appropriate. There is a LOT of that missing in today’s parenting principles.

I will make 1 note though. I’m watching my son who is into Fortnite. He and his friends get very competitive, which is ok by me, but they are respectful of one another for the most part. I’ve seen him and his friends play online against other teams and man, are people assholes. The anonymity of the internet breeds a lot of keyboard commandos. The whole faceless communication thing is not all we think it is.

Not making excuses for the guy or assigning blame to a game or asshole competitors, just an observation.

[Artemas2]

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

The online community has (believe it or not) improved significantly in recent years. The vocal minority however still reigns supreme.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

A general comment on guns and games. In the wake of mass shootings, gun folks have tried to shift the blame from guns as the antigunners want to claim that guns themselves are the problem. We understand that. Let's legislate on other causes rather than gun control, say the gun folks.

So progun forces have suggested mental illness, autism specifically or video games as the major casual variance. We know that mental illness and autism are not, in general, causal. There may be very specific involvement but a general indictment of mental health issues is just incorrect as is a specific link to autism.

Thus some gun folks turned to video games as they prime aggressive ideation.

1. The same experimental paradigms that claim aggressive ideation comes from games has been used to 'demonstrate' that exposure to firearms produces aggressive ideation. So if you claim research on games cause violence, you are damned as it blames guns too!

2. The research on games and guns priming aggressive ideation in a way that is totally causal or a major part of the causality in rampages is under very heavy critical attack as the research may not replicate or has short term laboratory effects without real world impact.

Thus, trying to shift blame to games (let's ban them) - isn't a good strategy as it is not based on empirical data and if the data were good - they would take out both games and guns.

Investigation of the shooter's motivations might reveal specific factors that we don't know yet.

Folks want to do global solutions. If we ban games - yes, it might alter the behavior of a few but what about the millions of folks who just play them. If we ban and confiscate all guns, no one gets shot. Great idea for some. Let's ban and confiscate both - is that a plan? Many would say Yes!

Ban sex education, the internet and music videos by the way to reduce evil sexuality - Yes!

Ban GMOs!

Ban, ban, ban!

[vandal]

I do wonder what was in his mind when he put the gun in the car. Was it initially for self defense while traveling? Was he going to shoot the place up regardless of the tournament outcome? Was this tournament a make/break event for him (emotionally/financially, etc.) that he had decided ahead of time to kill/die if he lost? Or was it an impulsive reaction? Did he have a prior history with the people he shot? Did something happen during this game (or a prior event) that made him feel shamed/embarrassed? Or was the driver totally unrelated to the tournament and this was just where he knew he could take some people with him.

[Casual Friday]

I do wonder what was in his mind when he put the gun in the car. Was it initially for self defense while traveling? Was he going to shoot the place up regardless of the tournament outcome? Was this tournament a make/break event for him (emotionally/financially, etc.) that he had decided ahead of time to kill/die if he lost? Or was it an impulsive reaction? Did he have a prior history with the people he shot? Did something happen during this game (or a prior event) that made him feel shamed/embarrassed? Or was the driver totally unrelated to the tournament and this was just where he knew he could take some people with him.

I don't know, but he had them crazy eyes that so many of the mass shooters have.

[JAD]

Kids have total come apart meltdowns over whatever because they're kids and have zero sense of proportion, not because of video games.

I remember contemplating suicide because my parents wouldn't let me spend the night at a friend's house when I'd never played anything but Pong at home and Space Invaders at Pizza Hut.

I agree completely, and yet I still don't let my kid play, because fucking read a book*. So far he is only contemplating a normal amount of homicide.



*eta, or get out a set of polyhedrals and let's roll motherfucker. Either way, embrace my preferred means of disassociating with reality.

[Clusterfrack]

*eta, or get out a set of polyhedrals and let's roll motherfucker. Either way, embrace my preferred means of disassociating with reality.

Now we’re talking!

[JRB]

I started playing video games on my Dad's IBM 8088 XT home PC at the age of three or four. (Sopwith & Digdug!!!) I learned how my way around a 1911 and a 10/22 not very long after - At no older than 6 I remember hurting my thumbs on some early Wilson Combat magazines to keep a stainless 80 series officer's ACP running and shooting coke cans while my Dad worked up hunting loads at the range.

I played a lot more video games as they got more sophisticated. Double Dragon, Commander Keen, Street Fighter, The entire Final Fantasy series (yes, every single one), Metal Gear, Doom, Doom II, Mortal Kombat, Duke Nukem, Half-Life, Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, The early versions of Counter-Strike that Goose originally built as a crude Half-Life mod (I remember gunrunning, and when the MAC-10 was accidentally the most accurate weapon in the game when it was introduced in Beta 6.0)
Blur that in with competitive NRA 50ft indoor smallbore, building my first AR-15 at the ripe age of 12 with the help of my Dad on an early DPMS receiver and a bizarre Colt A1 16in upper, and mowing lawns to save the money to buy the parts to finish it. It lived in my closet with loaded magazines right next to my 10/22 for most of my high school years. The AWB had just passed and my Dad thought it'd be my only chance to own such a rifle.
Mix all together with basically living in Metallica T-shirts and black leather boots, having a few close friends (and we played D&D and plenty of other nerdy pen+paper RPG's) but being far from popular and basically being radioactive to girls my age - by the time I got to school on 21 April 1999, I had an entire fucking school glaring at me in fear, thinking that I'd somehow do the same shit those two pathetic evil little fucks in Littleton did.

I can honestly say that the 180* flip that day was nothing like anything I've experienced in my life. The same girl that laughed at me when I asked her out to homecoming (like, she thought it had to be a candid camera joke for me to even think of asking her) saw me between classes that day and her eyes didn't dodge me or give a glance of 'ugh' as they usually did - it was sheer, unmitigated horror. She was terrified of me because of what those assholes did, and she was scared I'd be just like them. Nothing in my life has broken my heart like that.

I talked to countless teachers, counselors, administrators, etc all because they were 'concerned'. None believed me when I quite vehemently explained that I was the single last person on that campus capable of such a thing, and if someone did try that, I would die trying to stop them if that's what it took. I started bringing a roll of quarters to school because that was the closest thing to an effective weapon I could bring.
But being suspected, feared, accused, thought capable of doing something so 180* backwards from who I am at the very core of my being filled me with such an inexplicable mix of sadness and frustration, even rage.

I ended up going to a different high school after the end of that year. I kept playing video games. I eventually played Counter-Strike *competitively* in a league called Cal-I, which was pretty high up there but not on the top-shelf level of Cal-M. Never in my life have I ever considered bringing a real weapon into any situation over a god damn game, or words, or any of that other shit that isn't that serious.

Through my 20's as my dating life improved and my interest in other things like cars and guns got more serious, and I joined the Army, I had less time for gaming but that didn't stop me from being enthralled by the Halo series, the Mass Effect series, Fallout 3, Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc. To this day I still love of a good storyline playthrough or a fun, engaging game or the thrill of working with friends in a game to totally freaking own another team. About two or three times a month some of my old friends still hop online and play a couple of hours of Counterstrike - one's now an RN and another's a decorated local Police officer that damn sure knows his way around a pistol and has needed to use it with regrettable frequency in the past few years. I've tried to get him to come to P-F to share his knowledge and experience.

Did video games ever piss me off? Yep, they sure did - but I can honestly say that I've seen the same and worse from sports fans when their team loses or when a ref makes a 'bad call' or whatever. When I worked downtown and spent a lot of time in bars, I saw more than one scuffle and even knife-fight or bottles-to-the-face sorts of brawls break out over a fucking game that *those assholes weren't even playing* So to all of those that'd suggest that younger kids from the most emotionally insecure generation to ever walk this round mudball are somehow compromised because of *video games* when countless hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of GROWN ASS ADULTS go to absolute fucking *PIECES* over some overpaid self-important lug nuts jumping up and down on each other for a stupid ass ball hundreds of miles away - I can't help but question your grasp on reality.

Gaming here is not the problem. Folks who say 'Well I played Sonic but none of these more realistic killing games so the games must be the difference' are no different than the Fudds that believe in papaw's deer rifle and 12 gauge but 'dat no good poodle shooter' or 'commie AK' are just worthless killing machines. Realism in games doesn't differentiate ideation or morality any more than a Win model 70 in '06 is just as lethal as an AR15 in hands with ill intent.

There are tens of millions of gamers in this country, and the overwhelmingly vast majority are regular people just like you and me, and not interested or even capable of doing something like what this little pencil dicked shithead did. A comparison to the overwhelmingly vast majority of gun owners being perfectly lawful and peaceful people would be absolutely accurate.

Kids need to learn how to lose and bounce back. Too many kids aren't learning that and it's the same problem everywhere we go whether it's a Cheer competition or a Little League game or a Video Game tournament - Parents that shelter their kid from everything, even the bitterness of losing, are only handicapping their children in the long run.

Just today, during a briefing a LTC shared his account of how an E4 left his office after getting an article 15 for being a knucklehead and getting caught doing coke, less than 10 minutes later the E4's *MOM* called the LTC's office wanting to chew the LTC out for daring to do that to her little angel. Mom of course didn't like it when LTC could chew back and he told her all about how E4 was lucky he walked away as an E3 with an Article 15 instead of an OTH discharge because the E4 was the idiot that did coke. LTC also told Mom that her phone call changed his mind on going easy on said E4 and next time it'd be at least a field grade, and that he wouldn't be so lenient in the future.

Don't blame the games or the sports or the social media or anything else. Legions of kids these days are soft, spineless whelps with zero emotional development, and no ownership of their actions or their words - and when real life happens, they simply can't handle it... and their parents made it that way.


(edit - clarity and grammar corrections... this is a rant, hopefully the signal to noise ratio is still worthy of posting when I see it tomorrow)

[Dagga Boy]

Wanna know how many kids I have seen killed or horribly hurt over a dope deal gone bad, insult at a gang party, or wearing the wrong color something in the wrong part of town. Luckily, nobody is much concerned about those in the news media, but.....all of them are blamed on an inanimate object.

[BN]

Some people are evil. They don't need a reason to do evil things. :(

[scw2]

I kept playing video games. I eventually played Counter-Strike *competitively* in a league called Cal-I, which was pretty high up there but not on the top-shelf level of Cal-M.

I completely forgot about CAL until you mentioned it. Cal-I is really high, basically at the top except for the sponsored professionals, right? CAL-M(ain) was middle of the pack since that's as far as our team got - above open and intermediate, below premier and invite, though premier was after my time.

Also, sorry to hear about your experiences growing up. :(

[DocGKR]

Read the following elsewhere regarding the vile murderer in Jacksonville, but have not yet verified it:


"Without casting aspersions on the mentally ill and medications for the mentally ill....wait for it....

At one time he was placed on Risperdal, an antipsychotic medicine used to treat schizophrenia, was placed on two antidepressants and both his parents said he had mental health issues, though they disagreed on what treatment he needed. Despite this, he purchased two weapons in Baltimore last month...legally. I make the leap that in spite of his former treatment, he wasn't declared mentally incompetent and he was prescribed his medications.

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.
f. Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions for Question11.f.)

Once again, mental health issues that don't meet the level for reporting and therefore, he passes the background checks. But he won't be in the news by weeks end because he isn't politically valuable. Not a Republican, not a Trump supporter, not an NRA member, not a rifle, not a bump stock, etc..."

[RevolverRob]

Read the following elsewhere regarding the vile murderer in Jacksonville, but have not yet verified it:

BBC picked up portions of it - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45323936


According to court papers in Maryland, he had a longstanding feud with his mother, and had twice been hospitalised for mental illness.

This kid was unhinged from the word "Go". Sounds like both of his parents have pretty substantial careers (NASA Engineer, Government Toxicologist) - which leads me to suspect that baby-dearest was allowed to develop behavior like he did, because of largely absentee parents. I'm not going to lay it all on the parents, this kid clearly had problems, but mom and dad did not properly address them during his adolescence.

[JRB]

I completely forgot about CAL until you mentioned it. Cal-I is really high, basically at the top except for the sponsored professionals, right? CAL-M(ain) was middle of the pack since that's as far as our team got - above open and intermediate, below premier and invite, though premier was after my time.

Also, sorry to hear about your experiences growing up. :(

That's right - Cal-P was the guys above us and we were Cal-M prior to going Cal-I. It's been a few years! :)

Growing up is *supposed* to be tough, and while I took some interesting lumps growing up I honestly feel that I'm only better for all of them.

The reason I felt it was relevant was that looking back, it really *IS* the perfect recipe for disaster according to a hell of a lot of people these days. Looking back now, I can understand better why so many folks were scared at my old high school. But I wasn't that guy and I never was that guy. It was heartbreaking to say the least to see so many people just completely forget what they'd learned of my character or who I was as a person for the three years prior and it only took *looking* like the assholes in question.

But I kept it all together, mostly because of the absolutely relentless and loving efforts of my Mom to keep me on the straight & narrow and keep things in perspective, and my Dad setting a strong example of 'business/work first, then play' paired with an unyielding moral compass and constant consideration of others.
So what really was different? The parents. My parents.

[GuanoLoco]

Now we’re talking!

BTDT. I started on D&D before the AD&D hardbacks came out.

[Clusterfrack]

BTDT. I started on D&D before the AD&D hardbacks came out.

Same

[TAZ]

How many does this make that somehow managed to not be adjudicated??

I foresee some mental health reporting and definition updates coming. I’m not sure how to go about lowering the threshold on what triggers a NICS denial, but I’m sure our Congress critters will fuck it up galore.

[OlongJohnson]

That's right - Cal-P was the guys above us and we were Cal-M prior to going Cal-I. It's been a few years! :)

Growing up is *supposed* to be tough, and while I took some interesting lumps growing up I honestly feel that I'm only better for all of them.

The reason I felt it was relevant was that looking back, it really *IS* the perfect recipe for disaster according to a hell of a lot of people these days. Looking back now, I can understand better why so many folks were scared at my old high school. But I wasn't that guy and I never was that guy. It was heartbreaking to say the least to see so many people just completely forget what they'd learned of my character or who I was as a person for the three years prior and it only took *looking* like the assholes in question.

But I kept it all together, mostly because of the absolutely relentless and loving efforts of my Mom to keep me on the straight & narrow and keep things in perspective, and my Dad setting a strong example of 'business/work first, then play' paired with an unyielding moral compass and constant consideration of others.
So what really was different? The parents. My parents.

Dude, your experience makes me glad to have gone to college where I did. It was an absolute freak show, full of some of the finest young men and women in the country. You'd have been in the fat part of the bell curve. It was where I needed to be at the time, for a multitude of reasons. Sadly, I am not sure such a place exists anymore. The one I got to experience has been heavily made over in PC directions in the decades since I was there.

[BN]

Read the following elsewhere regarding the vile murderer in Jacksonville, but have not yet verified it: . Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions for Question11.f.)


This is actually a pretty high level to meet and should involve court rooms and lawyers. Otherwise it would be easy for someone to commit anyone they were unhappy with. If he signed himself into the hospital, he wasn't committed.

[DocGKR]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45323936

Also, the murderer's parents have now reportedly stated he was involuntarily committed to a mental institution six times...

[Hambo]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45323936

Also, the murderer's parents have now reportedly stated he was involuntarily committed to a mental institution six times...

So he lied on the 4473 and nothing shows up on the NICS check.

[HCM]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45323936

Also, the murderer's parents have now reportedly stated he was involuntarily committed to a mental institution six times...

The link posted only says he was “Hospitalized” twice.

Hospitalization doesn’t count if you check yourself in voluntarily, unless they find you dangerous enough go to court to keep you from checking yourself out.

I deal with a significant number of mentally ill persons at work. While emergency detentions (72 hour holds) are common it is rare for those ED’s to result in involuntary commitment. Normally the subjects are medicated and released because they are now considered “stabilized.”

Involuntary commitment must be ordered by a judge in a legal proceeding. Here in TX, (at least my part) civil commitments are actually by the county mental heath court which is a collateral duty of the probate court.

It is EXTREMELY difficult to get someone involuntarily committed once, much less six times. Six ED’s, maybe, six involuntary commitments -unlikely.

[Drang]

BTDT. I started on D&D before the AD&D hardbacks came out.

But did you play Chainmail first?

[GuanoLoco]

But did you play Chainmail first?

Negative, Ghostrider.

[HCountyGuy]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45323936

Also, the murderer's parents have now reportedly stated he was involuntarily committed to a mental institution six times...

So once again, somebody seriously dropped the ball and people are going to cry for more gun laws despite indisputable evidence that the current system is broken on many levels.

Yup, makes sense.