RFI: Game Modding a Glock for Carry Optics, maybe Production

[Paul D]

I normally carry a Gen4 Glock 17 or 19 MOS with an RMR06 on top. The only mods I really make is an OEM (-) connector, grip plug and a Grip Force Adapter. I'm interested in trying USPSA Carry Optics and I want to learn about mods to gain a competitive edge.

1) Grip Force Adapter: can I use this? The rules are kinda vague about this. If I have to use the Glock OEM back straps, can I mod them (ie cut) to fit the same profile as the GFA?

2) Recoil Spring and Rod: As I understand this, you want a heavy guide rod to keep the nose of the gun down; a weaker spring to minimize the slide shooting forward and pointing down the nose of the gun when it goes into battery? Factory is 17 lbs.

3) Striker Spring: Reduce the weight of the spring to reduce trigger weight? Factor is 5.5 lbs.

4) Trigger: I was just going to us Apex Tactical since they are in town. Anything better?

5) Magazine: Carry Optics allow 140 mm mags. Use the Magpul 21 round mags OR mod my OEM mags with something like Taran Tactical +5 extension?

6) Optic: I was going to use the Vortex Venom (which I have used a lot) though the DPP looks worthwhile to try.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[MVS]

I will be of no help. Stock Glock 17 MOS with DPP I do like the Taran Tactical +5 ext.

[Norville]

I shoot a G34 MOS with a DPP. To answer your questions:

I think the Grip Force is a no go, but at local matches it would not matter. OEM you are ok.

I run a 4 lb striker spring. You will have to use a lighter firing pin or risk light hits. I think I have a Zev. Actually I have 2, one was perfect the other had burrs that needed polishing.

Personally I wouldn’t spend money on an after market trigger. A quick polish, light striker spring and your connector of choice should be all you need. I Run a Zev V4 connector, and have a slightly less that 3 lb pull on my Lyman gauge. I don’t care for the extra power trigger springs, they compromise reset and the trigger safety when I have installed them.

I run 21 rd Pmags and a couple of oem with Dawson extensions. Pmags are a lot cheaper and have worked flawlessly for me. The difference between 21 or 22 rds is usually of no consequence. I can squeeze 23 in the oem with extensions, but it’s tough to reload on a closed slide.

DPP works great. I broke one last year, repaired under warranty. I bought a second for insurance and also run an RM 06 on my Gen 3 house gun as a secondary backup.

[YVK]

1. Grip Force is not an OEM part and doesn't look like one. My understanding it is not allowed (or I'd use it myself). OEM backstrap is OK but since no external mod, except for stippling and trigger undercut, is OK, you can't cut it like Grip Force.

2. I have a tungsten guide rod for my 19x. It doesn't have an option of coming with a lighter spring so I use it as is.
2a. I also fit a brass plug, taking the excess material out so it doesn't stick out.

3. I use the lightest striker spring that ignites ammo reliably. 5 lbs always does it, 4.5 maybe, 4 not sure. I understand that you can also pull the slide out of battery with a lighter striker spring.

4. Stock trigger for me, although I do play with different connectors.

5. I use aftermarket mag extensions to add extra weight. Taran's are popular, I use Taylor Freelance. I figured that people have figured out how to make Shadows and Stocks to be CO compatible so I want to minimize weight disadvantage.

6. Your guess is good as mine. I went with a DPP and mine started to flicker at 2200 rounds. It got repaired so I'll see how long it'll last now that I have a direct milled slide for it.

[45dotACP]

I use the vortex venom on my 17 MOS along with a 5.0 striker spring and a 3.5 connector. No Apex trigger experience so I can't say, but the guys at Trident make a nice Glock trigger. I'm just starting out with CO so I just load the standard mags to capacity. I'll get the Magpul mags personally. The vortex has been a good RDS. I think the GFA is illegal and I don't yet run a different recoil spring.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Bucky]

I’m in the process of setting up a carry optics gun as well. I started with one of my production G34s, so trigger was already good to go, via Vanek.

I’m using Dawson +5 base pad kits on factory magazines. Fortunately, I already had a few, as I briefly used them for 3 gun. I find them easier to use than TTI base pads.

Right now I’m running a 15# spring on a factory guide rod. Looking at tungsten options as well.

[NETim]

Resurrecting an old thread I know, but I can't resist the opportunity to chime in with my version of the ideal Glock CO gun. Base is a Gen4 17.

1) Apex trigger. I like flat triggers, the Apex does improve the trigger IMHO and the fact that the trigger safety bar goes flush with the trigger face is an added bonus.

2) Polished the usual trigger group contact points and installed a "-" Glock connector.

3) 5 lb. Wolff striker spring.

4) NDZ stainless steel guide rod with 13 lb Wolff spring.

5) Apex extractor.

6) Gen 5 ejector

7) OEM slide milled by Jager for Leupold DPP.

8) Extended Glock mag catch.

9) Oh yeah. Someone's aftermarket polished striker block and a reduced power spring. Can't remember who I bought it from. I think it helps the trigger some.

And I've come to love the MagPul 21 round mags. They simply work and they're cheap. I don't mind dropping them in mud and sand. But they aren't nearly as sexy as TTI +5/6 baseplates on OEM mags.

[CleverNickname]

The difference between 21 or 22 rds is usually of no consequence.

Usually, but not always. A level 2 match I shot recently had three 22-round stages.

[Gio]

Honestly you really don't need much.

Need:
OEM Extended Mag Catch
Sights (I prefer TTI or Dawson, F/O front with black rear)
Grip plug that is blended enough to make a ramp
Mag extensions for carry optics - I haven't tried the magpul 21 round mags, but I've got Dawson +5/6 extensions that work well

Preference:
4.5-5.0# Striker Spring
Minus Connector
Aftermarket guide rod (stainless steel or tungsten) with 14-15# spring. Make sure it passes the vertical slide return to battery test (hold the trigger to the rear, cycle the slide, and slowly guide it back into battery with the gun pointed up at the ceiling). My gen4 and 5's do not with a 13# or less recoil spring and a 5.0# striker spring.

If you do much else you really start to risk reliability.

[Zincwarrior]

1. Grip Force is not an OEM part and doesn't look like one. My understanding it is not allowed (or I'd use it myself). OEM backstrap is OK but since no external mod, except for stippling and trigger undercut, is OK, you can't cut it like Grip Force.

2. I have a tungsten guide rod for my 19x. It doesn't have an option of coming with a lighter spring so I use it as is.
2a. I also fit a brass plug, taking the excess material out so it doesn't stick out.

3. I use the lightest striker spring that ignites ammo reliably. 5 lbs always does it, 4.5 maybe, 4 not sure. I understand that you can also pull the slide out of battery with a lighter striker spring.

4. Stock trigger for me, although I do play with different connectors.

5. I use aftermarket mag extensions to add extra weight. Taran's are popular, I use Taylor Freelance. I figured that people have figured out how to make Shadows and Stocks to be CO compatible so I want to minimize weight disadvantage.

6. Your guess is good as mine. I went with a DPP and mine started to flicker at 2200 rounds. It got repaired so I'll see how long it'll last now that I have a direct milled slide for it.

Can you use a tungsten guide rod in production?

[Artemas2]

Honestly you really don't need much.

Need:
OEM Extended Mag Catch
Sights (I prefer TTI or Dawson, F/O front with black rear)
Grip plug that is blended enough to make a ramp
Mag extensions for carry optics - I haven't tried the magpul 21 round mags, but I've got Dawson +5/6 extensions that work well

Preference:
4.5-5.0# Striker Spring
Minus Connector
Aftermarket guide rod (stainless steel or tungsten) with 14-15# spring. Make sure it passes the vertical slide return to battery test (hold the trigger to the rear, cycle the slide, and slowly guide it back into battery with the gun pointed up at the ceiling). My gen4 and 5's do not with a 13# or less recoil spring and a 5.0# striker spring.

If you do much else you really start to risk reliability.

Have you found the guns to fail to cycle in live fire when they don't return by VSRTBT or rather when do they start to fail? I have been using the 13# with a well worn factory striker spring that fails the test, but has not had issues during live fire. I plan to replace the striker spring for next season and want to anticipate any issues (and save on shipping for a damn spring :) ).

I replace the 13#ers often and general keep my match gun well lubed.

[YVK]

Can you use a tungsten guide rod in production?

The interpretation of production rules seems to change regularly but I think the answer is "yes, as long as you make the weight".

[Gio]

Have you found the guns to fail to cycle in live fire when they don't return by VSRTBT or rather when do they start to fail? I have been using the 13# with a well worn factory striker spring that fails the test, but has not had issues during live fire. I plan to replace the striker spring for next season and want to anticipate any issues (and save on shipping for a damn spring :) ).

I replace the 13#ers often and general keep my match gun well lubed.

I have occasionally with a compromised grip, like shooting weak hand only around a wall or barricade.

[Clobbersaurus]

Instead of dumping money into a Gen 4, I would just buy a Gen 5. They are measurably more accurate than prior generations, have a huge magwell and decent triggers out of the box. The only real mods you need are grip tape on the upper side panels, a set of sights to your liking, and to clean up the trigger as much as is allowed for your division.

Gen 5’s make excellent competition guns with very little modification out of the box. Will post a pic of my competition Gen 5 when I get home.

[Bucky]

Instead of dumping money into a Gen 4, I would just buy a Gen 5. They are measurably more accurate than prior generations, have a huge magwell and decent triggers out of the box. The only real mods you need are grip tape on the upper side panels, a set of sights to your liking, and to clean up the trigger as much as is allowed for your division.

Gen 5’s make excellent competition guns with very little modification out of the box. Will post a pic of my competition Gen 5 when I get home.

As someone who wasted money “dotting” a Gen 4, I strongly agree.

[RJ]

I am currently a D shooter in P. I have two C class classifiers, and am working on consistency. But, to be honest, most of my match and/classifier score results from 1) mental errors (generally Mikes), 2) not putting holes in everything that needs a hole and 3) putting holes in things that do not need a hole. Frankly unless/until you can avoid 1) 2) and 3), modifying a gun that qualifies for Production in USPSA is probably a waste of time.

Still, hasn't stopped me fiddling around with my Gen 5 19. :cool:

- Overwatch Precision TAC aluminum trigger - I like the flat face of this trigger, a lot. For me at least, the standard trigger safety shoe in Glocks digs into my index finger. I find the flat face also produces less "shake" in dry practice. I attribute my gains in accuracy this season at least partly due to being able to press the trigger back "straighter" using this trigger.

https://overwatchprecision.com/tac/


- Glock Store "Thug Plug" - This is a brass coated insert for the grip frame. I find the added 2 or so ounces seems to "balance" the gun against the steel slide. And adds a bit of heft.

https://www.glockstore.com/Thug-Plug


- Glock OEM extended slide release - This helps to "hit" the slide release. There is a small dimple on each side (my Gen 5) offering more purchase when releasing/locking the slide.

https://www.glockparts.com/custom/GLSP47249.htm


- Glock Extended Magazine Release - GJM suggested me one of these. They do help, especially on my size M hands.

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/frame-parts/magazine-release-parts/magazine-releases/extended-magazine-release-prod22998.aspx


Sights are a personal choice, right now I've been using a stock height, all black, rear and a couple different fronts, both at 0.180". Currently running a Dawson FO (just installed) but over the past year plus I had an Ameriglo Pro-Glo, in orange, also at 0.180" (I like a "put dot over target and press" sight picture.)

[Clobbersaurus]

Here it is, pretty basic, but it gives up nothing to more expensive competition guns. I should note that I have long fingers so I have no need for an extended slide or mag release. But I can see those being a benefit for those with smaller hands.

https://i.imgur.com/sOEF9wS.jpg

[GJM]

This is my current CO pistol.

Gen 4 Glock 34 with the following mods.

GlockStore Thug brass grip plug

GlockStore pure Tungsten 34 length guide rod with 15 pound spring

JohnnyGlock trigger system

Tyrant magazine release

Sig Romeo 3 Max optic with C More MOS plate for the RTS 2

Taran Tactical 140mm extensions

Federal Syntech 150 ammo

33.45 ounces unloaded weight with unloaded magazine.

44898

44899

[RJ]

Here it is, pretty basic, but it gives up nothing to more expensive competition guns.



Clobb - Is that patch of grip tape for your (right) thumb? Just curious about it. I assume that is to give a bit more purchase in that area and stabilize the gun in recoil?

[Clobbersaurus]

Clobb - Is that patch of grip tape for your (right) thumb? Just curious about it. I assume that is to give a bit more purchase in that area and stabilize the gun in recoil?

That’s actually a really good question, and I took photos last week in anticipation of a post that I never got around to.

It’s for the abductor muscle (I think that is what it’s called) of my support hand. It drives me crazy that gun manufacturers don’t texture this area as it is an important contact point for a thumbs forward grip. To illustrate this last week, I put brand new skate tape on my new Gen 5.

This:
https://i.imgur.com/CZYNd6H.jpg

This was my hand after 250 rounds:
https://i.imgur.com/3PAOSGv.jpg

The above photo illustrates clearly how much contact this portion of the hand has on that part of the gun. I really notice how squirrelly the gun is in my hands when I don’t have grip tape applied in this area. For a competition gun, I consider friction in this area critical for recoil control. Of course my grip and hands are unique to me, but I suspect many others would benefit from grip tape in this area.

[RJ]

...The above photo illustrates clearly how much contact this portion of the hand has on that part of the gun. I really notice how squirrelly the gun is in my hands when I don’t have grip tape applied in this area. For a competition gun, I consider friction in this area critical for recoil control. Of course my grip and hands are unique to me, but I suspect many others would benefit from grip tape in this area.

Cool, thanks.

So your support hand grip is that far forward? Huh. Interesting, thanks again.

[Clobbersaurus]

Cool, thanks.

So your support hand grip is that far forward? Huh. Interesting, thanks again.

It’s not really that far forward. I have really long fingers, but just a large size hand, so it makes it harder for me to get support hand contact on the back strap portion of the grip. This is why having a lot of friction where I place the grip tape it is so important to me.

https://i.imgur.com/uZaoULZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Xw8dusn.jpg

[rob_s]

This is my current CO pistol.

Gen 4 Glock 34 with the following mods.

GlockStore Thug brass grip plug

GlockStore pure Tungsten 34 length guide rod with 15 pound spring

JohnnyGlock trigger system

Tyrant magazine release

Sig Romeo 3 Max optic with C More MOS plate for the RTS 2

Taran Tactical 140mm extensions

Federal Syntech 150 ammo

33.45 ounces unloaded weight with unloaded magazine.


I don’t know what all of those words mean so you may have posted and I missed it, but I’m assuming that is not an MOS model? If not, who did the slide cut and would you recommend them?

I ask because I’m hoping to get back into pistol games and have been eyeing a G5 Glock 34 and may start out shooting Production again but may want to switch to Carry Optics, so I’m wondering if I should get the MOS to make that easier or just assume I can get the slide cut later if I want to go that route.

[GJM]

I don’t know what all of those words mean so you may have posted and I missed it, but I’m assuming that is not an MOS model? If not, who did the slide cut and would you recommend them?

I ask because I’m hoping to get back into pistol games and have been eyeing a G5 Glock 34 and may start out shooting Production again but may want to switch to Carry Optics, so I’m wondering if I should get the MOS to make that easier or just assume I can get the slide cut later if I want to go that route.

It is a MOS, and I would recommend that to maintain optics flexibility.

[wmu12071]

That’s actually a really good question, and I took photos last week in anticipation of a post that I never got around to.

It’s for the abductor muscle (I think that is what it’s called) of my support hand. It drives me crazy that gun manufacturers don’t texture this area as it is an important contact point for a thumbs forward grip. To illustrate this last week, I put brand new skate tape on my new Gen 5.

This:
https://i.imgur.com/CZYNd6H.jpg

This was my hand after 250 rounds:
https://i.imgur.com/3PAOSGv.jpg

The above photo illustrates clearly how much contact this portion of the hand has on that part of the gun. I really notice how squirrelly the gun is in my hands when I don’t have grip tape applied in this area. For a competition gun, I consider friction in this area critical for recoil control. Of course my grip and hands are unique to me, but I suspect many others would benefit from grip tape in this area.

Do you have problems with the tape moving? If I have a long practice session the tape starts to move around. This help my shooting more than any aftermarket trigger I have tried.

[GJM]

Here it is, pretty basic, but it gives up nothing to more expensive competition guns. I should note that I have long fingers so I have no need for an extended slide or mag release. But I can see those being a benefit for those with smaller hands.

https://i.imgur.com/sOEF9wS.jpg

That is interesting. What I do is apply pressure in the area of the backstrap pin, using TPC’s quarter panel technique.

[wmu12071]

That is interesting. What I do is apply pressure in the area of the backstrap pin, using TPC’s quarter panel technique.

I have read your description of that but never really understood it.are you making contact with the same part of your hand from the pictures above?

[GJM]

I have read your description of that but never really understood it.are you making contact with the same part of your hand from the pictures above?

I think we are trying to accomplish the same thing, and I agree that besides recoil control, it helps a lot with trigger.

To understand TPC’s concept of “quarter panel,” look at a flat surface like a table. If you slide your hand across it, you will note adding friction, like tape, to the surface helps. If you come off the top of the table and catch just the edge of the table, it will anchor your hand without adding friction, and in their opinion, more efficiently and effectively.

Different pistols lend themselves more or less to the quarter panel technique, and in this regard, the Glock works fairly well. Something very rounded like a PPQ, not so well. You need just a bit of purchase on the back of the pistol to anchor it.

[RJ]

LGS has a Glock 34 in the rental inventory. Thinking of giving it a whirl.

Any potential issues in shooting that size gun by a guy w M hands?

This would (possibly) be a reward for making C class in USPSA P.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Doc_Glock]

LGS has a Glock 34 in the rental inventory. Thinking of giving it a whirl.

Any potential issues in shooting that size gun by a guy w M hands?

This would (possibly) be a reward for making C class in USPSA P.


Same as G17 grip should be no issue.

[GJM]

Last Friday, I received a Gen 5 Glock 34 back from JohnnyGlock, who did his custom magic, that resulted in perhaps the best Glock trigger I have felt. I had a match this weekend, and eagerly awaited today, so I could ring it out at the range. I was prepared to make this my new lead CO pistol.

Despite my expectations, by the end of the session, I realized continue to shoot a Gen 4 34 better on the timer, even though this new pistol has a better trigger. My theory is the Gen 4 finger grooves allow me to control the pistol better. I am disappointed as there are a number of things I prefer about the Gen 5 — like the big magwell, forward serrations, accuracy, and vigorous extraction.

[Caballoflaco]

Last Friday, I received a Gen 5 Glock 34 back from JohnnyGlock, who did his custom magic, that resulted in perhaps the best Glock trigger I have felt. I had a match this weekend, and eagerly awaited today, so I could ring it out at the range. I was prepared to make this my new lead CO pistol.

Despite my expectations, by the end of the session, I realized continue to shoot a Gen 4 34 better on the timer, even though this new pistol has a better trigger. My theory is the Gen 4 finger grooves allow me to control the pistol better. I am disappointed as there are a number of things I prefer about the Gen 5 — like the big magwell, forward serrations, accuracy, and vigorous extraction.

I wonder if there is a grip guru who can add finger grooves to a gen 5? I’m also one of those people who actually fit the finger grooves on gen 3&4 17’s and 26’s.

[Clobbersaurus]

Last Friday, I received a Gen 5 Glock 34 back from JohnnyGlock, who did his custom magic, that resulted in perhaps the best Glock trigger I have felt. I had a match this weekend, and eagerly awaited today, so I could ring it out at the range. I was prepared to make this my new lead CO pistol.

Despite my expectations, by the end of the session, I realized continue to shoot a Gen 4 34 better on the timer, even though this new pistol has a better trigger. My theory is the Gen 4 finger grooves allow me to control the pistol better. I am disappointed as there are a number of things I prefer about the Gen 5 — like the big magwell, forward serrations, accuracy, and vigorous extraction.

How many more rounds do you have on the Gen 4? Subtle hand positioning differences and more rounds may make up most of the time differences for you.

I also think that if the times are close within a certain percentage the accuracy gains coupled with the larger magwell of the Gen 5 may save you time and points overall. Missed/snagged reloads are huge time sucks, at least they are for me. Testing the Gen 5 in several matches to get a sample size of scores may make the decision for you.

[GJM]

How many more rounds do you have on the Gen 4? Subtle hand positioning differences and more rounds may make up most of the time differences for you.

I also think that if the times are close within a certain percentage the accuracy gains coupled with the larger magwell or the Gen 5 may save you times and points overall. Missed/snagged reloads are huge time sucks, at least they are for me. Testing the Gen 5 in a match or five may make the decision for you.

In the last year or so, I have many more rounds on Gen 5 pistols than Gen 4.

Intellectually, a year or so back I decided the Gen 5 pistols were better and put all my Gen 4 pistols away. It was pure chance I ended up pulling one out, due to optic issues, but the timer seems to know more than my intellectual analysis. I am not suggesting anyone follow my preference, although I do think it is worth examining for yourself, since competition is designed to magnify tiny differences that would likely be insignificant on da streetz.

[Clobbersaurus]

In the last year or so, I have many more rounds on Gen 5 pistols than Gen 4.

Intellectually, a year or so back I decided the Gen 5 pistols were better and put all my Gen 4 pistols away. It was pure chance I ended up pulling one out, due to optic issues, but the timer seems to know more than my intellectual analysis. I am not suggesting anyone follow my preference, although I do think it is worth examining for yourself, since competition is designed to magnify tiny differences that would likely be insignificant on da streetz.

That is very interesting. My apologies, I should have suspected that you would have tested it thoroughly. Based on your posts, you don’t do anything half assed at all.

I switch back and forth between a Gen 5 and a Gen 2 and other than accuracy at distance, I don’t see much of a time difference between the two, except I hang up reloads more on the Gen 2, which, when it happens, costs me dearly.

I did just picked up a low round count Gen 4 G19 to be a test mule in a KPOS Scout. I may have to take it out of the carbine and run it for a bit. I don’t have much time on Gen 4’s but have quite a bit of time on Gen 3’s.

[GJM]

That is very interesting. My apologies, I should have suspected that you would have tested it thoroughly. Based on your posts, you don’t do anything half assed at all.

I switch back and forth between a Gen 5 and a Gen 2 and other than accuracy at distance, I don’t see much of a time difference between the two, except I hang up reloads more on the Gen 2, which, when it happens, costs me dearly.

I did just picked up a low round count Gen 4 G19 to be a test mule in a KPOS Scout. I may have to take it out of the carbine and run it for a bit. I don’t have much time on Gen 4’s but have quite a bit of time on Gen 3’s.

I do a lot of half assed things.

Since I am running a GlockStore Tungsten heavy guide rod with a 15 pound recoil spring on both G4 and G5 34 pistols, and they have the same texture, the likely differences are finger grooves and perhaps trigger geometry. I lean towards the finger grooves as the explanation.

Theoretically, and we know how misleading that can be, wouldn’t finger grooves that fit you, offer more surface area to counteract recoil with your dominant hand?

[ranger]

GJM - I thought you were competing with the Legion?

[GJM]

GJM - I thought you were competing with the Legion?

My wife is and loves it. I tried for three months and could never get comfortable with it.

[Clobbersaurus]

Theoretically, and we know how misleading that can be, wouldn’t finger grooves that fit you, offer more surface area to counteract recoil with your dominant hand?

Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable hypothesis. Finger grooves on Glocks don’t bother me at all and suit my hand quite well. I know that is not the case for many, which is why they removed them on the Gen 5.

[rob_s]

Last Friday, I received a Gen 5 Glock 34 back from JohnnyGlock, who did his custom magic, that resulted in perhaps the best Glock trigger I have felt. I had a match this weekend, and eagerly awaited today, so I could ring it out at the range. I was prepared to make this my new lead CO pistol.

Despite my expectations, by the end of the session, I realized continue to shoot a Gen 4 34 better on the timer, even though this new pistol has a better trigger. My theory is the Gen 4 finger grooves allow me to control the pistol better. I am disappointed as there are a number of things I prefer about the Gen 5 — like the big magwell, forward serrations, accuracy, and vigorous extraction.


How many more rounds do you have on the Gen 4? Subtle hand positioning differences and more rounds may make up most of the time differences for you.

I also think that if the times are close within a certain percentage the accuracy gains coupled with the larger magwell of the Gen 5 may save you time and points overall. Missed/snagged reloads are huge time sucks, at least they are for me. Testing the Gen 5 in several matches to get a sample size of scores may make the decision for you.


In the last year or so, I have many more rounds on Gen 5 pistols than Gen 4.

Intellectually, a year or so back I decided the Gen 5 pistols were better and put all my Gen 4 pistols away. It was pure chance I ended up pulling one out, due to optic issues, but the timer seems to know more than my intellectual analysis. I am not suggesting anyone follow my preference, although I do think it is worth examining for yourself, since competition is designed to magnify tiny differences that would likely be insignificant on da streetz.


That is very interesting. My apologies, I should have suspected that you would have tested it thoroughly. Based on your posts, you don’t do anything half assed at all.

I switch back and forth between a Gen 5 and a Gen 2 and other than accuracy at distance, I don’t see much of a time difference between the two, except I hang up reloads more on the Gen 2, which, when it happens, costs me dearly.

I did just picked up a low round count Gen 4 G19 to be a test mule in a KPOS Scout. I may have to take it out of the carbine and run it for a bit. I don’t have much time on Gen 4’s but have quite a bit of time on Gen 3’s.


I do a lot of half assed things.

Since I am running a GlockStore Tungsten heavy guide rod with a 15 pound recoil spring on both G4 and G5 34 pistols, and they have the same texture, the likely differences are finger grooves and perhaps trigger geometry. I lean towards the finger grooves as the explanation.

Theoretically, and we know how misleading that can be, wouldn’t finger grooves that fit you, offer more surface area to counteract recoil with your dominant hand?


Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable hypothesis. Finger grooves on Glocks don’t bother me at all and suit my hand quite well. I know that is not the case for many, which is why they removed them on the Gen 5.

This kind of back and forth is great (although maybe I'm hijacking the thread), as it touches on concepts I find very interesting regarding improvements in an individual aspect that is easily measured (accuracy) vs improvements in overall performance that is less easily measured (match performance) because there are too many variables but also because we start to try and measure intangibles (missed reloads, for example).

thanks for the posts/discussion guys!

[Gio]

I do a lot of half assed things.

Since I am running a GlockStore Tungsten heavy guide rod with a 15 pound recoil spring on both G4 and G5 34 pistols, and they have the same texture, the likely differences are finger grooves and perhaps trigger geometry. I lean towards the finger grooves as the explanation.

Theoretically, and we know how misleading that can be, wouldn’t finger grooves that fit you, offer more surface area to counteract recoil with your dominant hand?

Is that the new "Pure" Tungsten guide rod that weighs 3.7 oz? I have been looking at trying either that or a Jentra this offseason. If it is the Pure Tungsten, do you use the Glock Store springs? Do you know if Wolff springs will work as well? I haven't run into anyone who's actually tried this new guide rod from them yet.

On topic, I do find that I have slightly more recoil control with my gen4 34 than my gen5, but I find my reloads are much more consistent with the gen5 due to the magwell. That's the single biggest factor for continuing to use the gen5 in my opinion.

[GJM]

I decided to tart up a Gen 4 19, and bought a GlockStore pure tungsten guide rod and Thug for it. Here is the weight before and after.

45122

45123

Whenever I shoot a 19 length slide with a dot, I am impressed with how flat it shoots. Of course whenever I shoot actual arrays, I am reminded how I consistently shoot better with a 34 with a dot. ;)

[rob_s]

It is a MOS, and I would recommend that to maintain optics flexibility.

Are there any out-of-the-box sight options from Glock that are worthwhile in the initial stages where I'm shooting Production, or is it still pretty much a matter of replace them after purchase?

Would it be worthwhile to buy taller sights initially, even for shooting without the optic, to eventually have backup sights with the optic, or should I plan on shooting one set of replacement sights to start and then get another set when/if I go to the optic?

suggestions on gamer iron sights in either case?

[rob_s]

Are there any out-of-the-box sight options from Glock that are worthwhile in the initial stages where I'm shooting Production, or is it still pretty much a matter of replace them after purchase?

Would it be worthwhile to buy taller sights initially, even for shooting without the optic, to eventually have backup sights with the optic, or should I plan on shooting one set of replacement sights to start and then get another set when/if I go to the optic?

suggestions on gamer iron sights in either case?

answering my own questions maybe...

Seems like maybe go with this with black rear and just change the sights later if I go Optics and feel like I need the taller backup sights?
https://dawsonprecision.com/dawson-precision-glock-gen5-g34-mos-fixed-non-co-witness-sight-set/

[RJ]

GJM thanks a bunch for the weight numbers on the G19.4. I have a GlockStore Tungsten Guide Rod on order for my G19.5 because why not. With my Thug Plug I should be not over the USPSA P weight limit of +4 ounces over OFM weight of gun plus empty mag.

rob_s complete USPSA noob here w only 9 matches lifetime, but a lot of folks me included run plan black rears and either a FO or Tritium / colored front.

Specifically in my case for an early Gen 5 G19, my gun shoots POI=POA to a cover dot hold w stock height black rears and a 0.180” front.

I will repeat what I said above, equipment choices comes very far down the list of what makes a difference in my score. Mikes, putting holes in no shoots, generally missing steel on the first attempt, and complete brain farts and leaving targets un engaged push me way down the standings. I am a D shooter knocking on C class. I feel competition is / was a really great level setter in setting my expectations of how poor a shooter I am. I am not currently very good at USPSA, but I am enjoying the journey.

Good Luck!

[Gio]

answering my own questions maybe...

Seems like maybe go with this with black rear and just change the sights later if I go Optics and feel like I need the taller backup sights?
https://dawsonprecision.com/dawson-precision-glock-gen5-g34-mos-fixed-non-co-witness-sight-set/

That’s what I use.

If you really commit to carry optics you can get the cowitness version later, but if you’re only shooting club matches I would just keep the non-cowitness on the gun so you can switch back and forth. Shooting irons with exceptionally tall sights is not ideal in my experience.

[GJM]

While there are exceptions, most USPSA CO competitors run just an optic without BUIS. And, since red dots break, most of us have experience finishing a stage without a dot — pure index works surprisingly well. My EDC red dot pistols have BUIS.

[Bucky]

This is my current CO pistol.

Gen 4 Glock 34 with the following mods.

GlockStore Thug brass grip plug

GlockStore pure Tungsten 34 length guide rod with 15 pound spring



GJM - I was looking at these guide rods. I see they offer a 34 Extended? Is that the one your are using? Is that prod / carry optic legal?

TIA.

[GJM]

GJM - I was looking at these guide rods. I see they offer a 34 Extended? Is that the one your are using? Is that prod / carry optic legal?

TIA.

I got the extended 34, for more weight, and it is CO legal, as we just have to be under 45.0 ounces. Not sure about Production.

[RJ]

GJM - I was looking at these guide rods. I see they offer a 34 Extended? Is that the one your are using? Is that prod / carry optic legal?

TIA.

I think for Production, per USPSA rulebook, 1/1/19, Appendix D-4, Production Division, I believe the pistol must weigh no more than +4 oz over original firearm manufacturer (OFM) weight with empty magazine:

45286



The Production Gun List (https://uspsa.org/productionlist) has a few Glock 34s mentioned, e.g.

34 9mm (26 oz.)
34 Gen 4 9mm 5.32 Barrel (26 oz.)
G34 Gen 5 MOS (without optic for (26.2 oz.)
G34 Gen5 MOS (26.21 oz.)
G34 MOS (25.95 oz.)

So I believe you weigh your gun "ready to go" with an empty mag, and if you are not over +4 oz the above weights, you are good to go for P.

[rob_s]

GJM - I was looking at these guide rods. I see they offer a 34 Extended? Is that the one your are using? Is that prod / carry optic legal?

TIA.


I think for Production, per USPSA rulebook, 1/1/19, Appendix D-4, Production Division, I believe the pistol must weigh no more than +4 oz over original firearm manufacturer (OFM) weight with empty magazine:

45286



The Production Gun List (https://uspsa.org/productionlist) has a few Glock 34s mentioned, e.g.

34 9mm (26 oz.)
34 Gen 4 9mm 5.32 Barrel (26 oz.)
G34 Gen 5 MOS (without optic for (26.2 oz.)
G34 Gen5 MOS (26.21 oz.)
G34 MOS (25.95 oz.)

So I believe you weigh your gun "ready to go" with an empty mag, and if you are not over +4 oz the above weights, you are good to go for P.



Looks like something like this adds about 1.6 oz so should still be under the ~4oz total add allowed.
https://www.glockstore.com/Double-Diamond-Extended-Tungsten-Guide-Rod

ETA:
looks like the Thug Plug would add another ~2.3 oz which would get you awful close to that 4oz limit if you combined the two.
https://www.glockstore.com/Thug-Plug?quantity=1&custcol7=6&custcol8=16

[RJ]

Received the GlockStore Tungsten Guide Rod and installed in the G19.5.

https://www.glockstore.com/GEN-5-Tungsten-Guide-Rod

Weights, all with empty magazine inserted:

Glock 19.5*, OEM guide rod - 25.9 oz
Glock 19.5, Tungsten guide rod - 26.9 oz
Tungsten guide rod assy - 1.7 oz
OEM guide rod assy - 0.7 oz

*Early model Glock 19 Gen 5 w Glockstore Thugplug, Overwatch DAT trigger, OEM extended slide release, OEM extended Magazine release.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191127/99b799d2e74884e552e4dfbb8943ff9b.jpg

[Gio]

Looks like something like this adds about 1.6 oz so should still be under the ~4oz total add allowed.
https://www.glockstore.com/Double-Diamond-Extended-Tungsten-Guide-Rod

ETA:
looks like the Thug Plug would add another ~2.3 oz which would get you awful close to that 4oz limit if you combined the two.
https://www.glockstore.com/Thug-Plug?quantity=1&custcol7=6&custcol8=16

The difference between a G19 and a G34 is I think the extended G34 length guide rod weighs 3.7 oz with the spring (compared to the stock .7 oz). I am going to try it out, but likely won't add any additional weight anywhere else. The Thug Plug would put it over the limit, and I'm already adding steel sights and grip tape, so I don't want to sweat the equipment check by pushing it right up to the limit.

Regarding weight up front vs. on the bottom of the grip: In my experience shooting limited with a frame weight and a brass magwell, I can take the magwell off and hardly notice any difference in recoil, but if I remove the frame weight I see a huge difference. The weight in the grip is more for balance than recoil control, and I honestly can't say I've ever noticed the "balance" of a pistol when I'm shooting it.

[GJM]

The difference between a G19 and a G34 is I think the extended G34 length guide rod weighs 3.7 oz with the spring (compared to the stock .7 oz). I am going to try it out, but likely won't add any additional weight anywhere else. The Thug Plug would put it over the limit, and I'm already adding steel sights and grip tape, so I don't want to sweat the equipment check by pushing it right up to the limit.

Regarding weight up front vs. on the bottom of the grip: In my experience shooting limited with a frame weight and a brass magwell, I can take the magwell off and hardly notice any difference in recoil, but if I remove the frame weight I see a huge difference. The weight in the grip is more for balance than recoil control, and I honestly can't say I've ever noticed the "balance" of a pistol when I'm shooting it.

Since CO has a 45.0 weight limit, I am not forced to choose where to put the weight. In my hands, a Glock feels more wiggly without a Thug.

This afternoon, I shot a Gen 4 34 with the heavy Tungsten extended Glock Store guide rod, and the stock RSA. The heavy guide rod definitely felt better, but the timer didn’t seem to notice the difference.

If I had to choose between a Thug, heavy guide rod or the Federal Syntech, I would definitely pick the Syntech first.

[rob_s]

SFederal Syntech, I would definitely pick the Syntech first.

I wasn't familiar with this ammo. What do you like about it?

Looks to be about $1.70/50 more than American Eagle?

[GJM]

I wasn't familiar with this ammo. What do you like about it?

Looks to be about $1.70/50 more than American Eagle?

Shoot it and you will understand. In a lighter pistol, like a Glock, it is extremely soft shooting. I use AE 115 or Lawman 124 for practice, but Syntech for matches.

[RJ]

GJM do you find any poi differences among the various Syntech 9mm I.e 115 or 124 or 150 gr?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GJM]

GJM do you find any poi differences among the various Syntech 9mm I.e 115 or 124 or 150 gr?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I only shoot the 150 Syntech, so I can’t compare it to other Syntech loads. I use AE 115 or Lawman 124 for practice, and both hit left of the Syntech at 25.

[Exiledviking]

GJM Gio

I just picked up a lightly used gen 4 G34 MOS to use as a red dot competition pistol. Unfortunately, it's the early version without the breech face cut and no FCS, but here in California the pickings are slim and the prices are at least 2x higher than the free states.

Back on track; it appears that both of you prefer the single 15(?) lbs recoil spring on an aftermarket guide rod in the gen 5 pistols vs the OEM dual spring recoil assembly? Is the tungsten guide rod worth the extra money?

It has a Johnny Glock competition trigger system installed which is REALLY nice, so I'm just looking the next few steps to squeeze a little bit more performance out of it. First time I've experienced the Johnny Glock trigger and I have to say I'm impressed.

I've got a CHPWS brass Speed Feed coming for it. And I'm going to running a 509T with the Holosun plate on it.

I'd appreciate your input.

[GJM]

GJM Gio

I just picked up a lightly used gen 4 G34 MOS to use as a red dot competition pistol. Unfortunately, it's the early version without the breech face cut and no FCS, but here in California the pickings are slim and the prices are at least 2x higher than the free states.

Back on track; it appears that both of you prefer the single 15(?) lbs recoil spring on an aftermarket guide rod in the gen 5 pistols vs the OEM dual spring recoil assembly? Is the tungsten guide rod worth the extra money?

It has a Johnny Glock competition trigger system installed which is REALLY nice, so I'm just looking the next few steps to squeeze a little bit more performance out of it. First time I've experienced the Johnny Glock trigger and I have to say I'm impressed.

I've got a CHPWS brass Speed Feed coming for it. And I'm going to running a 509T with the Holosun plate on it.

I'd appreciate your input.

Gen 4 or 5, as the breech face cut is a Gen 5 feature?

[Exiledviking]

Gen 4 or 5, as the breech face cut is a Gen 5 feature?Crud! That was supposed to say gen 5 G34.

[GJM]

GJM Gio

I just picked up a lightly used gen 4 G34 MOS to use as a red dot competition pistol. Unfortunately, it's the early version without the breech face cut and no FCS, but here in California the pickings are slim and the prices are at least 2x higher than the free states.

Back on track; it appears that both of you prefer the single 15(?) lbs recoil spring on an aftermarket guide rod in the gen 5 pistols vs the OEM dual spring recoil assembly? Is the tungsten guide rod worth the extra money?

It has a Johnny Glock competition trigger system installed which is REALLY nice, so I'm just looking the next few steps to squeeze a little bit more performance out of it. First time I've experienced the Johnny Glock trigger and I have to say I'm impressed.

I've got a CHPWS brass Speed Feed coming for it. And I'm going to running a 509T with the Holosun plate on it.

I'd appreciate your input.

I would just shoot it as is, adding the brass Speed Feed.