FN Five-Seven Kaboom!

[Shellback]

I searched and didn't find this posted. Thread started for informative reasons and discussion.

http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-five-seven/26196-my-five-seven-exploded.html

[JV_]

It sounds like he was badly hurt, that sucks.

I wonder how much consideration, during the design process, is given to oob related KBs.

[Kyle Reese]

I hope for his sake he wasn't using handloads.

Wishing the gentleman a speedy & full recovery.

[F-Trooper05]

Cha-Ching $$$$$$$$$$

[Shellback]

I hope for his sake he wasn't using handloads.


Cha-Ching $$$$$$$$$$

He stated in that thread he was using handloads on the same day in the same pistol. That may very well ruin his chances of getting compensated for anything.

Just my non-lawyer opinion.

[JodyH]

That gun does not look like it's engineered to control a Kaboom.
When you compare that pic to H&K, Glock etc. Kaboom pics you see them fail along engineered fault lines to minimize shooter injury whereas this pistol just blew up completely.

[JV_]

It's another reminder about why everyone should have a medical kit handy, bad/unfortunate things can happen that don't involve bullet woulds.

[Byron]

That is one of the worst pistol kabooms I've ever seen posted on the 'net. I've seen plenty where people cracked a barrel, damaged a slide, blew out a magazine, etc, but those instances were generally more common service calibers. Is the severity of this detonation due to the pressures/tolerances of the 5.7 cartridge? Or have I just not been paying enough attention to other nasty kabooms?

[SecondsCount]

By the look of the brass it really looks like it fired out of battery.

I am too amazed at how the gun came apart.

[WDW]

I knew somewhere in his story would be the word "handloads". I would have bet money on it. In just about every kB! story is that word. Does he really know that those were factory loads in that entire mag? I doubt it. I got nothing against reloaders, but you better make damn sure you know what you are doing.

[Chris Rhines]

Ouch.

Although I have no personal experience loading for the 5.7x28, everything I read tells me that the cartridge is utterly unforgiving of error.

-C

[TGS]

That gun does not look like it's engineered to control a Kaboom.
When you compare that pic to H&K, Glock etc. Kaboom pics you see them fail along engineered fault lines to minimize shooter injury whereas this pistol just blew up completely.

Keep in mind that HK's and Glocks aren't running the chamber pressures of 5.7x28, either. 50,000psi max pressure. Most loads are around 48,000 to 49,000. At 54,000psi you start getting primers blowing out, so the cartridge is on the edge even at it's proper pressure. Compare this to the 9mm and 40 which are 35,000 up to 42,000 for RA9TA, with Hirtenberger L7A1 up above 50,000 which is a no go for pistols.

1) There's little room for error compared to legacy service calibers.

2) It's kinda like playing with TNT (5.7) instead matches (9mm, 40, ect), so if you get burned, it's obviously going to be much worse to start with.


That is one of the worst pistol kabooms I've ever seen posted on the 'net. I've seen plenty where people cracked a barrel, damaged a slide, blew out a magazine, etc, but those instances were generally more common service calibers. Is the severity of this detonation due to the pressures/tolerances of the 5.7 cartridge? Or have I just not been paying enough attention to other nasty kabooms?

Definitely the worst that I've seen. I'm going with logic that since 5.7 is higher pressure, there is a higher severity.

[Shellback]

I ain't a lawyer but... He's admitted to using aftermarket magazines and using handloads in the gun, both of which are expressly forbidden in the instruction manual that nobody reads. The accident sucks and I hope he recovers but as far as any compensation goes he might've shot himself in the foot by posting these facts on the internet.

[JV_]

he might've shot himself in the foot by posting these facts on the internet.I'd like to think he wouldn't lie when questioned about the gun. Whether he posted it online or told the truth when asked, I hope all parties do what's right.

[Shellback]

I'd like to think he wouldn't lie when questioned about the gun. Whether he posted it online or told the truth when asked, I hope all parties do what's right.

I'm with you all the way. However, I wouldn't go posting stuff like this on the internet without first consulting an attorney who specializes in cases of this nature.

ETA - In the same light if I were involved in a shooting incident I wouldn't go posting it on the internet either. Nothing good can come of it and it may just come back to bite you in the ass one day.

[JV_]

I wouldn't go posting stuff like this on the internet without first consulting an attorneyAgreed. This is a lot more serious than just a broken gun.

[Ed L]

I read the first page of the thread. Although the shooter admitted to using handloads that day he claimed that the KB occurred with factory Vmax loads. I wasn't there, so I can't confirm either way.

There is a link in that thread to another thread that claims that the FN 5.7 pistol sometimes fires when slightly out of battery: http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-five-seven/3765-fn-fiveseven-warning-picture-heavy.html. In this thread someone from a company known for manufacturing hot 5.7 ammo is quoted as observing "that with the FiveseveN the hammer will drop at up to 1/4inch out-of-battery. Of course, the person who suffered a KB in that thread was using his own reloads.

[Long tom coffin]

Looking at the pics. Holy crap, is that blood on the rsa?

[Shellback]

I read the first page of the thread. Although the shooter admitted to using handloads that day he claimed that the KB occurred with factory Vmax loads. I wasn't there, so I can't confirm either way.

From the company's perspective, and liability laws, it's irrelevant whether you were there or not or what type of ammunition he was shooting when the gun blew up. He has admitted to shooting handloads prior to shooting factory authorized ammunition which would negate any type of claim of product failure. FN simply has to state that the guy shot his own handloads through the gun and it was damaged prior to shooting factory approved loads which destroyed the gun and it's failure was due to him using handloads.

[joshs]

From the company's perspective, and liability laws, it's irrelevant whether you were there or not or what type of ammunition he was shooting when the gun blew up. He has admitted to shooting handloads prior to shooting factory authorized ammunition which would negate any type of claim of product failure. FN simply has to state that the guy shot his own handloads through the gun and it was damaged prior to shooting factory approved loads which destroyed the gun and it's failure was due to him using handloads.

That may be true for warranty purposes and the damage to the pistol, but product liability cannot be avoided so easily when a product allegedly causes injury.

[TCinVA]

I've never been impressed by the 5.7 products from FN in terms of their engineering.

[TGS]

That may be true for warranty purposes and the damage to the pistol, but product liability cannot be avoided so easily when a product allegedly causes injury.

Really? That strikes me as odd. I don't understand how a company can take blame for someone using their product improperly, outside of clearly stated safe operating procedures, and getting bit because of doing that.

[Shellback]

Really? That strikes me as odd. I don't understand how a company can take blame for someone using their product improperly, outside of clearly stated safe operating procedures, and getting bit because of doing that.

That's my understanding as well. I could be off base but it doesn't seem like he'd have a leg to stand on.

[F-Trooper05]

Look at it from FN's lawyers' perspective. You can either pay an out of court setlement for relative pocket change in the long term scheme of things and ensure a non-disclosure agreement; or deny any responsibility and leave your fate in the hands of a jury that knows little about guns other than the fact that they aren't suppose to blow up in your hands.

[joshs]

Really? That strikes me as odd. I don't understand how a company can take blame for someone using their product improperly, outside of clearly stated safe operating procedures, and getting bit because of doing that.


That's my understanding as well. I could be off base but it doesn't seem like he'd have a leg to stand on.

You would likely be correct if negligence rules applied to products liability, but most states (really all) have some type of strict products liability, which ends up being more of an insurance system than fault based. This is especially true in "manufacturing defect" cases as opposed to "design defect" cases.

Even in the states that claim to have fault based products liability, courts don't apply normal negligence rules because it would only serve to hurt the residents of their state. For example, If state A has strict liability and state B has negligence, residents of state A will be more successful in suing manufacturers for injuries. Because we have a national market (residents of state A can buy their products in state B) a manufacturer must raise the price of its goods everywhere to compensate for the enhanced liability in state A. If state B maintains its negligence rule, its residents will pay for the strict liability rule in state A through higher product prices, but injured residents will not be able to take advantage of the easier liability rules they are paying for.

[EMC]

It's my understanding that when reloading this cartridge, resizing the brass is a challenge due to the excessive firing stress induced on them. Could a cartridge that had longer than normal OAL contribute to a firing out of battery condition? How does the barrel lock into battery given that it is a non-tilt design? My brother runs one of these guns, but only FN factory ammo, I wonder if I should convince him to sell it.