Trijicon RMR wins USSOCOM Handgun Reflex Sight (HRS) Contract

[HCM]

Bhttp://soldiersystems.net/2018/08/16/trijicon-awarded-7-6-mil-for-ussocom-miniature-aiming-system-day-optics-program/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Trijicon Awarded $7.6 Mil for USSOCOM Miniature Aiming System – Day Optics Program


USSOCOM has selected the Trijicon solution for their Miniature Aiming System – Day Optics Program. Under MAS-D, there are four different systems: Handgun Reflex Sight, Close Quarters Sight, Squad Variable Power Scope and Precision Variable Power Scope.

This award is for the Handgun Reflex Sight (HRS), which is designed for rapid day and night pistol target engagements. It incorporates an illuminated dot or shape imposed on a Wide Field of View (WFOV) lens to increase the speed of target acquisition when maneuvering in confined spaces, or in extremis if the primary weapon malfunctions.

With Trijicon winning it is based on their RMR Type 2 and will assuredly be mounted to SOCOM’s Glock 19s.



The award was decided on best value. SOCOM plans to field over 14,000 of these optics to its various components.

So, we were talking about RDS on handguns being the standard “in the future”.......

[tcba_joe]

So, we were talking about RDS on handguns being the standard “in the future”.......

SOCOM standardizing on G19.3 MOS, M17/M18 cut for RDS, The HSI/ICE guns being spec'ed for RDS, CBP asking for RDS compatibility ... Yup, welcome to the future.

I'm really surprised the Glock XM17 didn't have an RDS cut.

I wonder how this differs from the commercial type 2. Hopefully this contract helps their QC.

[HCM]

SOCOM standardizing on G19.3 MOS, M17/M18 cut for RDS, The HSI/ICE guns being spec'ed for RDS, CBP asking for RDS compatibility ... Yup, welcome to the future.

I'm really surprised the Glock XM17 didn't have an RDS cut.

I wonder how this differs from the commercial type 2. Hopefully this contract helps their QC.

The SOCOM guns are 19.4 MOS and the ICE issued guns are not RDS compatible but the 17/19 MOS are approved as optional personally owned weapons. They are still testing optics.

If Trijicon doesn’t offer the SOCOM RMR commercially they are refusing free money.

[PNWTO]

If Trijicon doesn’t offer the SOCOM RMR commercially they are refusing free money.

If some vendor took the grunt work out of assembly and sold the whole Mk27 G19 Package w/RMR they would sell out before the second thread page on ARFCOM.

[jetfire]

This makes perfect sense and isn’t really surprising, since units in group have been using RMRs on their Glocks for a bit now.

[tcba_joe]

The SOCOM guns are 19.4 MOS and the ICE issued guns are not RDS compatible but the 17/19 MOS are approved as optional personally owned weapons. They are still testing optics.

If Trijicon doesn’t offer the SOCOM RMR commercially they are refusing free money.
I guess got the ICE and CBP offerings conflated.

Interesting on the G19.4 MOS. There's a user on ARFCOM who is a SOCOM armorer. He's been reporting G19.3 MOS and has posted pictures of them.

I agree with you on Trijicon needing to sell the SOCOM issued RMR. Frankly, it's a huge pet peeve of mine when a company gets a contract and doesn't offer a civilian version of their product, even when the "updated civilian version" (IE; nothing like the contract part) is reportedly better. LVAW, SURG, etc... SIG and others brag about these big contracts then refuse to sell a civilian version.

[nate89]

If Trijicon doesn’t offer the SOCOM RMR commercially they are refusing free money.

I wonder what the difference is between the type 2 and the contract RMR. Perhaps the auto-adjust feature will be different (hopefully).

[Sigfan26]

I guess got the ICE and CBP offerings conflated.

Interesting on the G19.4 MOS. There's a user on ARFCOM who is a SOCOM armorer. He's been reporting G19.3 MOS and has posted pictures of them.

I agree with you on Trijicon needing to sell the SOCOM issued RMR. Frankly, it's a huge pet peeve of mine when a company gets a contract and doesn't offer a civilian version of their product, even when the "updated civilian version" (IE; nothing like the contract part) is reportedly better. LVAW, SURG, etc... SIG and others brag about these big contracts then refuse to sell a civilian version.
I've got a buddy in SF that reported 19.3 as well for the MOS pistols they were issued.

[Redhat]

I guess I'm surprised they didn't wait to see the Aimpoint offering...

[GJM]

I would love to know whether they tested the new Aimpoint, and selected the RMR over it, or whether the RMR just beat the other stuff available now, which is basically crap for defensive use.

[JHC]

I'm really surprised the Glock XM17 didn't have an RDS cut.



I'm guessing there are G19X derivatives decked out with the RDS cut and other enhancements.

[GJM]

I broke down and bought a RMR type 2 today. Prob will direct mill it onto a 19X.

[CDFIII]

I spoke to a mil./LE rep at Trijicon last week to get pricing on a second RMR type 2. He actually mentioned this optic in our conversation. He stated it is exactly the same as the current type 2 RMR’s with the exception of a nsn number. Granted this was maybe a 10 minute phone conversation and I am not really sure if his information is correct... but he seemed to be pretty knowledgeable on the product. So take this information with a grain of salt;) l am sure there are people on here with more knowledge on the subject than myself.

[Sigfan26]

I would love to know whether they tested the new Aimpoint, and selected the RMR over it, or whether the RMR just beat the other stuff available now, which is basically crap for defensive use.

I find it hard to believe a company like Aimpoint wouldn't have an optic submitted.

[Bart Carter]

I broke down and bought a RMR type 2 today. Prob will direct mill it onto a 19X.

And bring it to the 5 day TPC competition class next month?

[nightstalker865]

I broke down and bought a RMR type 2 today. Prob will direct mill it onto a 19X.

Incredible combo!


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[JSGlock34]

Naturally the M17/M18 is sized for the Leupold Deltapoint Pro so SOCOM has adopted the Trijicon RMR for the Mk27.

Typical.

[03RN]

Figures.

All of the Sig's are milled for leupolds.

[GJM]

I love the DP Pro for competition. After owning now a dozen, and using them a few years, you couldn’t pay me money to carry one for actual defense. Unless your idea of excitement is to play “wonder if the motion sensor will make the dot come on when I need to draw.”

[JSGlock34]

I love the DP Pro for competition. After owning now a dozen, and using them a few years, you couldn’t pay me money to carry one for actual defense. Unless your idea of excitement is to play “wonder if the motion sensor will make the dot come on when I need to draw.”

I'd still like to understand how the Leupold footprint ended up on the M17...

[Mjolnir]

Naturally the M17/M18 is sized for the Leupold Deltapoint Pro so SOCOM has adopted the Trijicon RMR for the Mk27.

Typical.

[emoji23][emoji38]🤣[emoji106]


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[HCM]

I guess I'm surprised they didn't wait to see the Aimpoint offering...

The Aimpoint has been rumored and hush hush but acknowledged in industry circles fro a while now. I would be surprised if the testers were not at least aware of the Aimpoint.

[HCM]

I guess got the ICE and CBP offerings conflated.

Interesting on the G19.4 MOS. There's a user on ARFCOM who is a SOCOM armorer. He's been reporting G19.3 MOS and has posted pictures of them.

I agree with you on Trijicon needing to sell the SOCOM issued RMR. Frankly, it's a huge pet peeve of mine when a company gets a contract and doesn't offer a civilian version of their product, even when the "updated civilian version" (IE; nothing like the contract part) is reportedly better. LVAW, SURG, etc... SIG and others brag about these big contracts then refuse to sell a civilian version.

SOCOM originally went to standard gen 3 Glock 19's as their standard handgun 10 or more years ago. The new SOCOM guns are G19 Gen4 MOS. The MOS is only available as a Gen4.

You could well have seen a 19.3 with an optic but it wasn't an MOS. Certain units have been buying aftermarket optics cut slide like the UNITY Tactical for years. They have also been using drop in conversions like the RCS Balor and the Dueck Defense mount. The key is being able to return the gun to original issue condition for turn in / accountability etc. I know of a few units which got "hand Me down" Glock 40 cals and converted then to 9mm and optics via Unity slides.

[BigT]

SOCOM originally went to standard gen 3 Glock 19's as their standard handgun 10 or more years ago. The new SOCOM guns are G19 Gen4 MOS. The MOS is only available as a Gen4.

You could well have seen a 19.3 with an optic but it wasn't an MOS. Certain units have been buying aftermarket optics cut slide like the UNITY Tactical for years. They have also been using drop in conversions like the RCS Balor and the Dueck Defense mount. The key is being able to return the gun to original issue condition for turn in / accountability etc. I know of a few units which got "hand Me down" Glock 40 cals and converted then to 9mm and optics via Unity slides.


Gen3 MOS guns do exist in very specific circles.

[JSGlock34]

I hadn't realized that GEN3 MOS pistols had been made, let alone were in military service, but...

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/32677/IMG_4571_rz-477345.JPG
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/32677/IMG_4572_rz-477346.JPG

[tcba_joe]

I hadn't realized that GEN3 MOS pistols had been made, let alone were in military service, but...

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/32677/IMG_4571_rz-477345.JPG
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/32677/IMG_4572_rz-477346.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/G19-in-the-SF-communities-/13-179518/

Combat_Diver is a SOCOM armorer. From his posts:


Pistol 9mm Mk26 Mod 0 1005-01-632-2651 = G26 Gen 3 w/night sights
Pistol 9mm Mk26 Mod 1 1005-01-658-7261 = G26 Gen 4 w/MOS, night sights

Pistol 9mm Mk27 Mod 0 1005-01-632-2097 = G19 Gen 3 w/night sights
Pistol 9mm Mk27 Mod 1 1005-01-654-2796 = G19 Gen 3 w/MOS, night sights
Pistol 9mm Mk27 Mod 2 1005-01-658-1930 = G19 Gen 4 w/night sights

G19 Gen 3 may/may not have maritime cups
G19 Gen 4 has threaded barrel

Gen 3 MOS (as shown above) obviously exist, they just aren't commercially available.

[TAZ]

I think years of availability and prior service in certain units gave the RMR an edge over a new product with zero history. Kind of odd thinking of Aimpoint as playing catch up when it comes to RDS. The fact that they did NOT go with direct milled application suggests that they understand the limitation of the system is still the optic and gives them the chance to buy something new in a few years. At least if I was doing things, that’s how I would run.

This sucks monkey balls. I was hoping that with the arrival of the Aimpoint, the RMR market would soften and I could get a good deal on a type 2 for my 19X.

[HCM]

https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/G19-in-the-SF-communities-/13-179518/

Combat_Diver is a SOCOM armorer. From his posts:


Gen 3 MOS (as shown above) obviously exist, they just aren't commercially available.

I stand corrected. Were these built as Gen3 MOS from the factory as a modification to the prior SOCOM contract for Gen 3 G19s or were they Gen 3s retro fitted to MOS like the ATOM slide cuts L&M Precision is now doing on existing pistols?


It just goes to reinforce the idea RDS pistols are the way serious use pistols are going.

[tcba_joe]

I stand corrected. Were these built as Gen3 MOS from the factory as a modification to the prior SOCOM contract for Gen 3 G19s or were they Gen 3s retro fitted to MOS like the ATOM slide cuts L&M Precision is now doing on existing pistols?


It just goes to reinforce the idea RDS pistols are the way serious use pistols are going.
I can't tell you, but I got the impression from that thread that these guns were produced in that configuration at the request of SOCOM.

Either way, yeah that was my point. These guns are proof that we're at the beginning of the handgun RDS revolution. About the only handgun you can't mill an RDS mount on is the 92 series (giggles in MHS).

I hope trijicon and aimpoint cracked the code on handgun optic durability. That's definitely an issue still IMO.

[jwperry]

My hope for this would have been "one mounting pattern/footprint to rule them all" but it looks like we're going to maintain 2 distinct patterns...

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[CraigS]

From reading on this and other forums it seems to me that most don't think these slide mount RDS's are quite ready for 'prime time got to be 100% reliable' use. The RMR is one that gets mentioned as maybe the best so far but....Does this USSOCOM contract mean they know more than we do because they have done a lot of testing? Or perhaps the mil version is different than what we can buy? I am curious because my impression was that we are a few years away from 100% so this thread surprised me.

[Mjolnir]

My hope for this would have been "one mounting pattern/footprint to rule them all" but it looks like we're going to maintain 2 distinct patterns...

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As an engineer I would have like to have seen an adoption of a footprint and bolt pattern then allow/let the market compete.

It would only make sense to commonize the footprint/bolt pattern.


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[TiroFijo]

From reading on this and other forums it seems to me that most don't think these slide mount RDS's are quite ready for 'prime time got to be 100% reliable' use. The RMR is one that gets mentioned as maybe the best so far but....Does this USSOCOM contract mean they know more than we do because they have done a lot of testing? Or perhaps the mil version is different than what we can buy? I am curious because my impression was that we are a few years away from 100% so this thread surprised me.

...IMO, many times USSOCOM adopted things before they were 100%

and, "perfect is the enemy of good enough"

[GJM]

From reading on this and other forums it seems to me that most don't think these slide mount RDS's are quite ready for 'prime time got to be 100% reliable' use. The RMR is one that gets mentioned as maybe the best so far but....Does this USSOCOM contract mean they know more than we do because they have done a lot of testing? Or perhaps the mil version is different than what we can buy? I am curious because my impression was that we are a few years away from 100% so this thread surprised me.

While I don’t think many feel the technology is fully mature, perhaps the military thought, on balance, the benefits of a dot on a pistol, even with current technology, outweigh the negatives. From what I have read, and only based on that, the military optic is a type 2 RMR.


As an engineer I would have like to have seen an adoption of a footprint and bolt pattern then allow/let the market compete.

It would only make sense to commonize the footprint/bolt pattern.


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Footprint/bolt pattern is a start, but I would like to see the optic fully supported the way Primary Machine and ATEI do their installations.

[TAZ]

While I don’t think many feel the technology is fully mature, perhaps the military thought, on balance, the benefits of a dot on a pistol, even with current technology, outweigh the negatives. From what I have read, and only based on that, the military optic is a type 2 RMR.



Footprint/bolt pattern is a start, but I would like to see the optic fully supported the way Primary Machine and ATEI do their installations.

Sometimes getting a unit that’s good enough out there is better than delaying till you NEVER get the perfect unit. Plus, I’m 99.973% certain that should a SOCOM guy draw his sidearm and doesn’t see a dot that he wouldnt freak out and miss the target, like say the guy who shoots 1000 rounds a decade and never trains with his backups. The other benefit of the choice is that this may further motivate folks to spend time developing better stuff. Knowing there is a SOCOM need means there will be a DOD need soon, then a LEO need ... just like how the RDS on a carbine has become the de facto standard.


1000+ on the full support. I was honestly totally surprised that when Trijicon releases the RMR2 they didn’t shave a few millimeters off the sides do it doesn’t overhang at least the Glock slide width.

[EVP]

Just curious if these are identical to type 2s? CDIII said the rep he was taking to said they were and I would assume the same thing.