Moving to California: Need Advice

[tjbeck]

Californians and Legal experts please help,

Sometime later this year I will be moving from my beloved Kentucky to lovely southern California and my new duty station...yippie. I was stationed in the state three years ago but, honestly had no idea what was really legal in the state and what was conjecture and 'sea-lawyering' and what was actual law and fact. So if you have first hand experience and knowledge please help me out. I was on the California Bureau of Firearms website trying to find out if I could own things like my M&P Pro that doesn't show up on 'Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale' so long as I don't sell it there. The wording seems to me that I can

Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.

but, I also have not read every statute. So if you live there and know the rules of what I can bring into the state please help me make this move.

Also, what are the best places to shoot in and around San Diego?

Thanks
tjb

[LittleLebowski]

Are you going to Pendleton or San Diego?

[LtDave]

No mags over 10 rounds.
Pretty sure the only way you can import a non list handgun is for use by a law enforcement officer.
You have to register everything you bring in.
Born and raised there. Fled as soon as i could retire. Now I live in AZ.

[Shellback]

Drop everything off in Las Vegas on your way. If you list what you're wanting to take it would definitely help with your question. What pistols? AR? Shotgun?

Academi / Xe / Blackwater has a facility in SD and conducts training there.

[tjbeck]

I'm headed to MCAS Miramar just outside SD. Wanted Lejuene...oh well.

The Handguns I'm considering taking;
- S&W Pro Series 4 1/2 barrel (not on the list)
- Kahr P9 (on the list I think)
- EMP 9 (on the list I think)
- Springfield 1911 MC Operator (on the list)
- Browning Buckmark
- Ruger Single Six

Rifles I think are all good except for the AR of course:
- AR (I don't think I'm gonna bother trying)
- Tikka T3 Scout CTR
- CZ452
- Marlin 60
- Savage MkII
- Remington 870

I have called and emailed the Bureau of Firearms but, haven't heard anything back yet. I am an MP but, I really doubt that qualifies me for any exemptions.
Thanks for the feedback so far.
tjb

[TGS]

I'm headed to MCAS Miramar just outside SD. Wanted Lejuene...oh well.

The Handguns I'm considering taking;
- S&W Pro Series 4 1/2 barrel (not on the list)
- Kahr P9 (on the list I think)
- EMP 9 (on the list I think)
- Springfield 1911 MC Operator (on the list)
- Browning Buckmark
- Ruger Single Six

Rifles I think are all good except for the AR of course:
- AR (I don't think I'm gonna bother trying)
- Tikka T3 Scout CTR
- CZ452
- Marlin 60
- Savage MkII
- Remington 870

I have called and emailed the Bureau of Firearms but, haven't heard anything back yet. I am an MP but, I really doubt that qualifies me for any exemptions.
Thanks for the feedback so far.
tjb

I've never known a Marine to be unhappy about going to SoCal. :)

One of my best friends is the MP plt cmdr at the airfield on Pendleton. He might know some of the people you'll be working with at Miramar, if you want any gouge let me know and I can shoot him a message.

As you guessed, MP would not grant you any exceptions. The only ones would be criminal investigators with CID since they hold actual federal 1811 credentials, just like your alphabet agency special agents (at least that's what a career CID gunny told me when I worked with her).

As far as I understand it, you can move into California with non-list guns. The list only applies to FFL transfers, which you can get by with single-shot conversion exemptions which you then convert back to original function.

Also, make sure you read your welcome aboard package carefully and call ahead about firearms. I do believe that while you can store firearms in the armory or in family housing, they are not allowed in your car at any time while on Miramar. Kinda weird...not sure if that only applies before they're registered with PMO or not.

[ChrisG]

calguns.net is the best resource for info on California statutes. As an active duty guy on orders, you are allowed to register your existing "assault weapons" and bring them into the state, but not buy new ones once you get there. Google "Military Assault Weapons Permit" on calguns for the details. The turn-around for Sacramento to process the paperwork was ~2 months when I did it back in 2009, but may be slower now with CA's budget problems. I believe you are also allowed to bring in handguns that are not on the safe handgun roster, but I'm not positive. Unfortunately there are no exemptions for standard capacity magazines.

[Suvorov]

Best advice - find another duty station!

Second best advice - www.calguns.net

As far as the legalities, California is really better than a place like NJ, but is far from a free state.

Pistols - the "Roster" which you are worried about DOES NOT APPLY to individual importers (guys moving into the state) so you are free to bring any handgun into the state as long as it does not qualify as an assault weapon. You are supposed to fill out a "voluntary registration form" and give the state $20 for each handgun you bring into the state to register your gun. Magazine capacity is limited to 10 rounds unless you possessed the magazine in the state prior to Jan 2000. The roster only applies to new guns being brought into the state and sold by FFLs. Many of the latest and greatest guns are not approved, so if you have been thinking about getting a new HK45, then do it before you move here. There are ways to work around the roster, but it can be expensive.

Rifles - here is where it gets sticky. Anything with a detachable magazine and ONE feature (like a pistol grip, flash hider, ect) is considered an assault weapon. You have a couple of options here. As long as the rifle is not one of the rifles named by the state as an assault weapon (ie Bushmaster XM15), then you can either a) remove the offending features or b) install a magazine lock (called a "bullet button") which effectively gives you a non-detachable magazine allowing you to have evil features. There is a lot of intricacies here, so time spent on calguns is advised. Again, 10 round magazine limits apply. Also note that any rifle chambered for rimfire, is exempt from the assault weapons classification. There has been some rule changes as far as Military Assault Weapons Permits", so check calguns to see if they are still issuing them.

CCW Permits - Kalifornia is a "may issue state." It does not recognize other state's permits. The ability to get a CCW (called LTCs here) ranges from very easy in some counties to very difficult in other counties. There is no "open carry" anymore and pistols must be transported in a locked container and unloaded.

This is it in a nut shell. Feel free to ask any questions.

[CraigBos]

Californians and Legal experts please help,

Sometime later this year I will be moving from my beloved Kentucky to lovely southern California and my new duty station...yippie.
...

So if you live there and know the rules of what I can bring into the state please help me make this move.

Welcome to California, and thanks for your service TJ. I live just across the freeway from MCAS Miramar, so we'll be neighbors.

Amen to using http://www.calguns.net/ for good info. There is a wiki article answering your exact question here: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Moving_to_California_with_firearms


Also, what are the best places to shoot in and around San Diego?

I shoot pistol at the 50 foot indoor range at Discount Gun Mart in Santee (http://www.discountgunmart.com/category/retail_store.dgm_santee_home/). I like the way the lanes are set up, and it's open until nine on weeknights.

There are several commercial indoor ranges, some of which allow rifle and shotgun (P2K Range (http://www.p2krange.com/) and American Shooting Center (http://www.gotammo.com/)). And there are several private clubs, one of which has a rifle range just under 1000 yards (North County Shootist Association (http://www.ncsapala.com/) on the Pala Indian reservation).

There are places on BLM land that are open to target shooting. But they are few and far between, and difficult to find out about. Many, many such places have been closed due to trash and other issues. I've basically given up on open space shooting, unless I'm planning to drive a couple hours to get out in the desert.

I'll send you a private message with a link to a map of ranges, clubs, and shops in the area (I haven't mapped any open space spots, alas.)

Any questions, don't hesitate!

[tjbeck]

TGS: Thanks for the advice it is tough to be too upset when the weather is generally 72 and sunny. I figured MP's wouldn't rate crap...I'm still gonna ask the BF about it as they now issue creds to all MP's. Which is a little scary to me, as I could see one of my young Marines doing something stupid with them. I know some installations have some pretty silly rules like that so, I will be sure to ask.

Chris: Awesome, I didn't know about the MAWP, sounds promising thanks

Sovorov: That was exactly what I was hoping thank you. Now unfortunately I have an excuse to buy a new gun:D LTC's do you apply through the county sheriff?

Craig: Thanks for the range links and map. Do you have one that you prefer?

Sounds like the move won't be as bad as I thought thanks for all the links and knowledge.

tjb

[JHC]

Good luck kid. Thanks so much for your service. Be sure you get some input from DocGKR. If he doesn't see this, consider PM'ing him. He's a Navy guy. But sounds like great input from these replies too.

[JV_]

It really sucks that our military folks have to deal with this BS.

[TGS]

TGS: Thanks for the advice it is tough to be too upset when the weather is generally 72 and sunny. I figured MP's wouldn't rate crap...I'm still gonna ask the BF about it as they now issue creds to all MP's. Which is a little scary to me, as I could see one of my young Marines doing something stupid with them.


That makes me think of the first time I saw Tasers in the PX. "Shit.....Tom, we didn't cover that in the safety brief...." :D

What kind of creds are being issued? That's interesting since given their rank, most MP's don't have arrest powers off-duty to necessitate creds in the first place, nor are they covered by HR218 out in town, i.e. an MP has to apply for a concealed handgun permit like joe schmoe if they want to carry off base, off duty, unlike a sworn officer with arrest powers. In the past MP's had to turn in their badge at the end of their shift, right? What's going on now?

[tjbeck]

That makes me think of the first time I saw Tasers in the PX. "Shit.....Tom, we didn't cover that in the safety brief...." :D

What kind of creds are being issued? That's interesting since given their rank, most MP's don't have arrest powers off-duty to necessitate creds in the first place, nor are they covered by HR218 out in town, i.e. an MP has to apply for a concealed handgun permit like joe schmoe if they want to carry off base, off duty, unlike a sworn officer with arrest powers. In the past MP's had to turn in their badge at the end of their shift, right? What's going on now?

I am not certain exactly how it came about. I believe it started with the integration of civilians into Marine PMO's. As they are GS police officers, similar to those seen at VA's and other government facilities, they rate federal credentials. This was even fought by many in the field, mostly out of the fear they would start over reaching their jurisdiction. Regardless, they rated them and got them. Then, if they have them why shouldn't the Marines doing the same job next to them have them. They do state that they only 'charged with the duty of investigating violations of the UCMJ'. They stay with the Marine as long as he remains on active duty. Once off active duty he turns it in. I believe they also receive a badge at PMO for general wear while on duty, which stays with them while they are at that particular duty station.

In addition to the there has also been some real talk about trying to move MP school to FLETC. I think that presents some real advantages and hope that can get worked out...but, who knows. I'll know more once I get to PMO.

[CraigBos]

Craig: Thanks for the range links and map. Do you have one that you prefer?

For what I do, which is trying to build my pistol marksmanship skills, I like Discount in Santee best. I have paid for their "membership," which allows me to reserve range time in advance, and I don't have to pay any additional fee to shoot. Plus, they are open until 9 PM on weeknights. All of that makes them best for me right now.

Things will change when I want to do draws, movement, etc., and when I start shooting rifle and shotgun.

[JMorse]

If you wanna make a few bucks bring as many P30's and HK45's with you as you can. They'll sell like hotcakes (one P30L for me please! ).

[tjbeck]

Gentlemen, thanks for all the info. One more question. Is there any issue getting ammo in CA? Should I stock up and take a bunch with me or is it readily available?

[ChrisG]

When I left there was a law about to go into effect banning mail order ammo sales state wide, and requiring thumbprints for in person sales. I know there were some planned legal challenges, and haven't kept up with it since I left. Some local jurisdictions also restrict mail order ammo purchases. Check the latest for your area on calguns. Bringing a large stock of ammo is probably a good idea.

[CraigBos]

Gentlemen, thanks for all the info. One more question. Is there any issue getting ammo in CA? Should I stock up and take a bunch with me or is it readily available?

No issues at the moment.

WalMart is good for cheap range ammo. You can get 100 round bulk packs of 9 mm Fed Champion for $20, 100 rounds of 12 ga target loads for $23, and 20 rounds of American Eagle .223 for $6. All plus about 8% sales tax, naturally.

The Kearny Mesa and Poway stores stock ammo (along with many others, I'm sure). The shelves get picked over pretty fast when they get restocked, so it pays to stock up when the shelves are full.

Also, there is a gentleman up in Glendale selling commercial reloads at good prices. For example, 9 mm 115 gr plated go for $170 face to face. See his thread here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=397946). I'm working through my first 1000 of his stuff and they are working fine in my M&P 9.


When I left there was a law about to go into effect banning mail order ammo sales state wide...

This was challenged and defeated. I have gotten ammo mail order from lots of sources in the last few months: Midway, Palmetto, Lucky Gunner, Cheaper Than Dirt, etc.

Some localities do have additional restrictions, but I haven't seen any issues down here in San Diego.

Having said that, I agree it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring in what you can, especially if you can get it for less than the prices I listed above.

[HCM]

In addition to the there has also been some real talk about trying to move MP school to FLETC. I think that presents some real advantages and hope that can get worked out...but, who knows. I'll know more once I get to PMO.

On a related note, The U.S. Coast Guard Maritime Enforcement (ME) rating "A" school is located a a FLETC satellite facility. Training is provided by both USCG and FLETC instructors and graduates get certifications from both organizations. The first class graduated in April 2010.

http://http://www.gocoastguard.com/find-your-career/enlisted-opportunities/enlisted-ratings-descriptions