M16A2 magwell out of spec...

[Sherman A. House DDS]

My department recently obtained several FN and Colt M16A2’s with carry handles and burst capability. Since I’m the, “gun guy,” on the department, I was tasked with inspecting them and looking for issues.

All but one gun function checked fine, and worked well. The problem was one of the FN’s magwells seemed undersized. To the point where the gun wouldn’t accept a milepec aluminum mag without forcing it. It was free of any carbon debris, or melted plastic.

I’ve not seen an issue quite like this before. Please advise.

Also, what’s the, “go to,” solution other departments are using on surplussed M16’s to add a light, and an A1 or collapsible stock? Half of our department (10 guys) is 6’4” or over, so we’re ok with the big guns, but the other half is 5’7” and under, and they’ll need another option.

Thanks in advance.


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[John Hearne]

All but one gun function checked fine, and worked well. The problem was one of the FN’s magwells seemed undersized. To the point where the gun wouldn’t accept a milepec aluminum mag without forcing it. It was free of any carbon debris, or melted plastic.
I’ve not seen an issue quite like this before. Please advise.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ivqtAXgtL._SL1500_.jpg


Also, what’s the, “go to,” solution other departments are using on surplussed M16’s to add a light, and an A1 or collapsible stock? Half of our department (10 guys) is 6’4” or over, so we’re ok with the big guns, but the other half is 5’7” and under, and they’ll need another option.

The "big thing" is to keep all of the parts so that the weapon can be returned to its original configuration.

As far as stocks go, mil-spec receiver extensions, buffer/bufferspring, and the stock of your choice. Brownells and Fulton Armory have A1 stocks. Just make sure you order the right butt stock screw.

Adding light and optics quickly become challenging without buying new uppers. I was not responsible for the fiasco but my agency tried to convert M16A2s to M-4's and it didn't go well. We ended up with a bunch of frankenguns and folks didn't know about replacing the extractor parts. I spend three year buying new, complete whole uppers from BCM to fix the guns in my area.

[SeriousStudent]

Paging ST911.....

My understanding is if the are DRMO guns, you can make "temporary" mods to them, as long as they can be returned to the same condition as received.

[SeriousStudent]

Mr Hearne beat me to it.

And it's not a big deal at all to swap receiver extensions, and put collapsible stocks on them. Maybe 20 minutes to turn a rifle into a carbine?

You'll need new receiver extensions, buffer springs, buffers and stocks.

[ST911]

Much less LESO gun use than there used to be, but my experience:

No permanent mods, keep any parts you remove in case they are recalled or audited. You have a GI gun that will interact best with GI and other GTG parts. Sully stocks have been a great mod for the LESO guns. If you use an adjustable stock group, you may need to play with buffers depending on your ammo.

To diagnose the mag well, start with some known-good mags by brand and by fit in other guns. Look for wear marks in the metal or color it up with a marker. Lightly polish the well only at those friction points. Be sure to try other makes of mags before you mod the gun. Make sure mag release isn't too tight, and doesn't have any friction in motion.

For light mounts, I've installed bunches of the MI FSB mounts. https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/MI-Tactical-Light-Mount-p/mctar-01g2.htm. Warning, when you shoot hard the light heats up and an El Cheapo Illumo won't make it. (I have this setup on a 6720 with an M600, GTG.)

[Drang]

Any possibility the "tight" mag well just has the mag release wound too tight? I don't recall ever seeing one so tight it wouldn't accept a mag, but I've seen them where some dim bulb set them so loose (:o ) a mag wouldn't hardly stay in...

(And amazing how many folks don't even realize you can adjust how tight they go.)

[Redhat]

Any possibility the "tight" mag well just has the mag release wound too tight? I don't recall ever seeing one so tight it wouldn't accept a mag, but I've seen them where some dim bulb set them so loose (:o ) a mag wouldn't hardly stay in...

(And amazing how many folks don't even realize you can adjust how tight they go.)

This!!! Is the place to start before doing anything "permanent" like grinding or polishing. I've seen it many times in the military.

If that doesn't work, I'd look at sending the rifle back for another.

[Lon]

We used the MI front sight mount for TRL1’s for 10+ years without an issue on our carbines. Sucked for lefties though since they were set up for the majority of us. You could always try the MI mount with a tape switch on the light. That’s be the cheapest way.

If I was making the choice and money want an option I’d just get new uppers with a rail. Lots more options. Our new rifles have the lights (TRL1 HL) mounted at 12 o’clock in front of the folding sight (we went red dot this time). Made the lefties happy.

[strow]

I had a similar problem with mags not fitting a Vltor lower. I ended up being an out of spec trigger guard. I would try swapping trigger guards before I took a Dremel to it. I know it sounds goofy but I would check the trigger guard first. It would be a quick check.

[HCM]

Easy fixes for the mag well issue have been addressed.

I have used the GG&G version of the MI A frame mount for years with good results. You will want a little blue Loctite and paint pen witness marks on the screws just in case.

If you are only swapping the fixed stocks but keeping the 20” barrel and rifle length gas system, I strongly recommend the Vitoria A5 system. The A5 gives a little more length of travel to the BCG than a conventional Carbine receiver extension which aids reliability. The A5 was originally designed as a COTS drop in collapsible stock upgrade for the USMC A2 and A4 rifles.

A1 stock would be the cheapest and easiest option.

For sling solutions look at Mount N Slot. They also have some flashlight mounting options which will work with with A2 handguards without modification.

Finally, if you want an optic Trijicon makes a pretty neat little carry handle mount for the RMR.

Do you wat to keep the burst capability ? Personally I would rather have a better trigger pull in semi - converting them to either semi only or select (semi/full) fire will give you a better semi trigger pull.

If you go semi, one of the nickel Teflon coated, polished triggers like the ALG ACT, BCM PNT or SOLGW Fighting Trigger would be a great upgrade.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Also, what’s the, “go to,” solution other departments are using on surplussed M16’s to add a light, and an A1 or collapsible stock? Half of our department (10 guys) is 6’4” or over, so we’re ok with the big guns, but the other half is 5’7” and under, and they’ll need another option.



The "big thing" is to keep all of the parts so that the weapon can be returned to its original configuration.

When I was in Nebraska, the local SO where I worked had gotten M16A1's and had very little money to work with. I recommended Magpul MOE rifle-length handguards to mount lights to: https://www.magpul.com/products/moe-mlok-hand-guard-rifle-length-ar15-m4

At the time I recommended whatever budget combo light/mount that IWC had going at the time. Today I would suggest a Magpul mount with the Streamlight Rail Light.

The Sully stock would be a good option: http://www.thedefensiveedge.com/Sully_Stock_p/sully01.htm

[ST911]

There is a point at which modifying free guns is false economy, and I've seen a number of agencies spend more on time, parts, and making them work than new guns would have. For example, I have fresh quotes for 6720s and 6920s, agency exempt purchasing, in the $750-$900 range with immediate availability.

For this reason, I just don't bother even recommending the LESO guns anymore, esp pre-A2 variants. You're not getting what you really want. I also suggest folks just buy PROs or ACOs rather than messing with LESO optics. Many will be GTG, many won't.

Food for thought.

[Wayne Dobbs]

My department recently obtained several FN and Colt M16A2’s with carry handles and burst capability. Since I’m the, “gun guy,” on the department, I was tasked with inspecting them and looking for issues.

All but one gun function checked fine, and worked well. The problem was one of the FN’s magwells seemed undersized. To the point where the gun wouldn’t accept a milepec aluminum mag without forcing it. It was free of any carbon debris, or melted plastic.

I’ve not seen an issue quite like this before. Please advise.

Also, what’s the, “go to,” solution other departments are using on surplussed M16’s to add a light, and an A1 or collapsible stock? Half of our department (10 guys) is 6’4” or over, so we’re ok with the big guns, but the other half is 5’7” and under, and they’ll need another option.

Thanks in advance.


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My experience from dealing with this issue over and over as a Colt Armorer Instructor is to NOT spend money on these DRMO gun conversion projects. You'll find that if you buy quality parts to do any conversions from rifle to carbine, you're within $100 of buying new guns configured the way you want them. Just doing receiver extensions is feasible, but I wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze on that. Plus, you don't really know what the history of the DRMO guns are with regard to round count, dimensional compliance after years of service, etc. They can be literally worth what you paid for them (nothing). If you are going to use them, be prepared to cull out many of them for cause and just learn to say the word "next!" when in this process.

[JRB]

Drang beat me to what I was going to say about the mag catch.

For buttstock swaps, speaking from the Army side, we've put M4 extensions and stocks on many M16A2's and A4's. Even normal-sized guys have some problems with the full A2 stock and an IBA/IOTV especially when getting in and out of vehicles quickly. Plus it's a relatively fast job to reverse with the right tools.

For mounting a light on the factory A2 or M4 style handguards without rails, I prefer this mount:
https://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/tmc-1-light-mount-n-slot/

This mount makes it easy to do a tape switch along the top to make it play nice with righties, lefties, and goofy cross-dominant southpaw shooters like me.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

My experience from dealing with this issue over and over as a Colt Armorer Instructor is to NOT spend money on these DRMO gun conversion projects. You'll find that if you buy quality parts to do any conversions from rifle to carbine, you're within $100 of buying new guns configured the way you want them. Just doing receiver extensions is feasible, but I wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze on that. Plus, you don't really know what the history of the DRMO guns are with regard to round count, dimensional compliance after years of service, etc. They can be literally worth what you paid for them (nothing). If you are going to use them, be prepared to cull out many of them for cause and just learn to say the word "next!" when in this process.

Thanks everyone! I’m not giving up my AR pistol (Barrett REC7) but the guys that don’t have a long gun...well, this is better than nothing.


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