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Paul D
07-28-2018, 10:28 PM
I am thinking about getting into USPSA production and/or carry optics and I would like to ask the knowledgeable some questions about ammo. I currently reload on my Dillon 650 (or buy when priced right) 115 grain 9mm ammo for my Glocks and other 9 mm guns. Right now I am using 115 gr Berry's RN with Titegroup 4.5 gr. I am willing to get a separate toolhead set up for a specific load outside what I already have.

1) I've noticed that more that half of the USPSA 9 mm shooters use 147 grain bullets (instead of 115/124). Any competitive advantage to this? Lower snappiness due to heavier bullet?

2) Do you guys use plated bullets for practice and use a different bullet (ie fully jacketed match) for competition? What is your favorite brand of bullets?

3) Do you load differently for practice vs match? More QA with match ammo or it's the same thing.

4) If I do not have time to reload; what is the best factory load for 147 grain match ammo?

By the way, I just handled a Walther Q5. The ergos and trigger on that gun is soooo much better than a Glock. I might use that as a dedicated gamer gun instead of a G34 MOS.

Thanks in advance!

Duelist
07-28-2018, 10:59 PM
I like Speer Lawman 147 gr TMJ if I donít have time to load, but I have no idea what itís USPSA power factor is.

YVK
07-28-2018, 11:21 PM
Yes, for the same power factor, 147 vs 115 is supposed to be felt softer.

I don't reload. My match ammo is 115 gr Federal Am Eagle. It clocks at 130-133 PF, is consistent and I've no issues with accuracy. Another option is 124 Am Eagle suppressor ammo but I feel that it is too close for comfort at 125-127 PF. Some people like 124 gr Am Eagle which is very consistent and clocks at 140 PF. I've shot it and found no appreciable performance difference vs milder loads. I presume that gun matters too since I've been shooting mostly 3 lbs 9 mm gun lately. However, I am about to go Glock and my recent runs with this and even hotter 9 mm ammo (Speer Lawman 115) didn't suggest much difference either. Like Duelist, I've shot a bunch of 147 gr Lawman, as well as 147 gr Federal and while I like the ammo, I feel that 115 Fed is still softer shooting. If I wanted to buy a 147 gr match load, I'd go to Atlanta Arms.

Spartan1980
07-29-2018, 12:03 AM
I am thinking about getting into USPSA production and/or carry optics and I would like to ask the knowledgeable some questions about ammo. I currently reload on my Dillon 650 (or buy when priced right) 115 grain 9mm ammo for my Glocks and other 9 mm guns. Right now I am using 115 gr Berry's RN with Titegroup 4.5 gr. I am willing to get a separate toolhead set up for a specific load outside what I already have.

1) I've noticed that more that half of the USPSA 9 mm shooters use 147 grain bullets (instead of 115/124). Any competitive advantage to this? Lower snappiness due to heavier bullet?
See below
2) Do you guys use plated bullets for practice and use a different bullet (ie fully jacketed match) for competition? What is your favorite brand of bullets?
See below
3) Do you load differently for practice vs match? More QA with match ammo or it's the same thing.
Same
4) If I do not have time to reload; what is the best factory load for 147 grain match ammo?
Federal AE
By the way, I just handled a Walther Q5. The ergos and trigger on that gun is soooo much better than a Glock. I might use that as a dedicated gamer gun instead of a G34 MOS.
My SIL has a Q5 and it's a hell of a gun. Great trigger right out of the box and a tack driver. Just watch the bullet profile as they use the original german chamber specs and have a short leade compared to US guns and Glock.

I reload, so there is that.

147 just doesn't feel near as snappy as 115. In my 9 Pro the brass just dribbles over the slide and falls at my feet with 147 coated hardcast and WST powder or Alliant e3 which isn't temp sensitive at all in my experience. I took a class with this load in this gun and one of the instructors said they sound like "bunny farts". This ammo makes about 132PF, of course depending on individual chrono. If you shoot very fast splits you'll probably like 124s better, as the real go fast folks will have to wait on the slide to cycle with 147s and it causes them heartburn. 115s have more problems knocking down steel than any other for some odd reason but, they shoot flat.

I shunned plated and plain lead (uncoated) bullets a long time ago. I'm running coated hardcast because they are just about as clean as plated, and smoke waayyyy less than uncoated lead but a little more than jacketed and they are cheaper. If you run a coated bullet make sure you get them sized .356, I will even run Hornady HAPs at .356 if I happen to find them. I would only shoot them for level 2 or 3 matches and would still be fine with my coated at those matches too. Rocky Mountain Reloading has a really thick plated bullet out that I hear shoots really well. They may be worth a look but I just don't like loading plated, it's too easy to break that coating on the Berrys and especially the Xtremes and they are a crapshoot as to whether they'll be accurate in your gun. I buy coated knowing they will shoot straight. My favorite is ACME because I've grown to love their 122 NLG (no lube groove) bullet. It works in 9mm and my .357 Sig for training. When all my heavys are gone this is my bullet. Bayou, BBI, Missouri, S&S, and Acme are all good to go and they all use the High-Tek coating and it works fabulous. Bayou has about the biggest selection out there. Blue Bullets are a huge sponsor of USPSA but their coating (not High-Tek, they use something else) will leave your hands blue which is irritating to me but, their bullets shoot good too.

For jacketed I prefer Precision Delta or sometimes Montana Gold but you gotta by in bulk to get the discount, they're not real competitive price wise if you don't and PD shoot just as good if not better.

nwhpfan
07-29-2018, 12:45 AM
147's feel "softer" to me but when I compare to 124/5 on the timer there is no difference.

Generally I shoot and practice with the same stuff of whatever I have loaded up at the time....

It all goes into the same box. Whatever I pull out for a match I will run through the case gauge.

Bucky
07-29-2018, 04:03 AM
I like the softer impulse of 147s, and I feel it tracks better, ie easier to follow the sights under recoil.

When I started the sport, I cast bullets from wheel weights. It was the only way I could afford to shoot. Today Iím better off, so I only shoot jacketed if I can help it.

During the last bullet shortage, I tried some plated. They were good at first, but then I got a bad batch. This really sucks when you load thousands at a clip.

GJM
07-29-2018, 06:03 AM
I shoot American Eagle 115 for practice and matches, and buy it from SGammo.

I love the Walther Q5, although I find getting 22 rounds in the Glock mags with Taran baseplates is an advantage. If you go Walther, I would consider direct milling a five inch PPQ, as I believe MOS systems are harder on optics.

Leroy
07-29-2018, 06:12 AM
In general I find that the heavier the bullet the softer the feel. This is most noticeable in lighter guns like Glocks. As the gun gets heavier it becomes less noticeable to almost negligible. In any given course of fire or drill shooting performance differences are basically imperceptible. But over high round count practices or matches the fatigue of shooting sharper impulsed rounds can add up to minor decreased performance. By minor I mean a really small increase in "bad" shots. Maybe 5 out of 600, hard to say. I also find it slightly easier to track soghts with a softer round.

RJ
07-29-2018, 06:16 AM
On topic, I am a noob to USPSA but it does seem to me that 147 knocks down Steel a bit more reliably than 115...for you more experienced shooters, would that be a consideration?

Or does 115 have enough zip that shot placement matters more (which I suspect) and I'm imagining it based on a grand total of 4 matches lifetime?

Artemas2
07-29-2018, 06:26 AM
On topic, I am a noob to USPSA but it does seem to me that 147 knocks down Steel a bit more reliably than 115...for you more experienced shooters, would that be a consideration?

Or does 115 have enough zip that shot placement matters more (which I suspect) and I'm imagining it based on a grand total of 4 matches lifetime?

The 147s seem more consistent on edge and low hits, particularly on any thing that is retained by a spring or rusty bolt (Texas star/ plate racks)

I have had no trouble with some of my lighter 115 loads and had trouble with factory +P. I think like everything else in shooting "bullets do funny things"

olstyn
07-29-2018, 08:28 AM
1) I've noticed that more that half of the USPSA 9 mm shooters use 147 grain bullets (instead of 115/124). Any competitive advantage to this? Lower snappiness due to heavier bullet?

I started off loading 115 gr plated because they were easily available, lighter bullets are cheaper, and I didn't know about coated. Later on I moved to 124/125 grain weight. I found that even that difference was noticeable for me in terms of being softer shooting. I haven't moved up to 147s because they're significantly more expensive, and I'm quite happy shooting 125 grain coated.


2) Do you guys use plated bullets for practice and use a different bullet (ie fully jacketed match) for competition? What is your favorite brand of bullets?
Nope. When I was shooting plated, I used it for everything, when I was shooting jacketed, I used it for everything, and now that I've finally gotten on the coated bandwagon, I intend to use that for everything. As far as brands go, I've used Berry's plated, Rainier plated, Montana Gold jacketed (both JHP and CMJ), Hornady XTP (got 500 for "free" when I bought a Hornady LnL AP press), and Blue Bullets coated. The only real performance differences I noticed was that 124/125 grain bullets shoot softer than 115s (less powder in the case), and that Hornady XTP bullets produce exceptionally good accuracy. If XTPs weren't prohibitively expensive, I'd load them exclusively, but since Blue Bullets produce good enough results for me and are WAY cheaper, they're where I've landed.

ETA: Coated bullets typically require more belling than plated or jacketed in order to avoid damaging the coating when seating/crimping, so be aware of that. It's nothing horrific to deal with, but it does slightly change the loading process.


3) Do you load differently for practice vs match? More QA with match ammo or it's the same thing.

Nope, same QA process for everything. I learned the hard way once when my sizing die got maladjusted and I didn't catch it until a case got stuck in my gun at the range. Now I plunk test/case gauge *every* round that comes off of my press. Yes, it's somewhat time consuming, but when I'm at the range, I'd rather be shooting than pounding stuck cases out of my gun's barrel, even if it's just a practice session.


4) If I do not have time to reload; what is the best factory load for 147 grain match ammo?

Sorry, can't help here.


By the way, I just handled a Walther Q5. The ergos and trigger on that gun is soooo much better than a Glock. I might use that as a dedicated gamer gun instead of a G34 MOS.

Yeah, Walthers, by and large, feel great in the hands. My P99 and P99c both have smooth DA and nice crisp SA pulls, and the PPQ is basically just a P99 SAO, so it's no surprise that its trigger is widely loved.

Bucky
07-29-2018, 09:33 AM
On topic, I am a noob to USPSA but it does seem to me that 147 knocks down Steel a bit more reliably than 115...for you more experienced shooters, would that be a consideration?

Or does 115 have enough zip that shot placement matters more (which I suspect) and I'm imagining it based on a grand total of 4 matches lifetime?

It was more of an issue before calibration ammo was mandated to be sub minor.

GuanoLoco
07-29-2018, 09:57 AM
I am thinking about getting into USPSA production and/or carry optics and I would like to ask the knowledgeable some questions about ammo. I currently reload on my Dillon 650 (or buy when priced right) 115 grain 9mm ammo for my Glocks and other 9 mm guns. Right now I am using 115 gr Berry's RN with Titegroup 4.5 gr. I am willing to get a separate toolhead set up for a specific load outside what I already have.

1) I've noticed that more that half of the USPSA 9 mm shooters use 147 grain bullets (instead of 115/124). Any competitive advantage to this? Lower snappiness due to heavier bullet?

2) Do you guys use plated bullets for practice and use a different bullet (ie fully jacketed match) for competition? What is your favorite brand of bullets?

3) Do you load differently for practice vs match? More QA with match ammo or it's the same thing.

4) If I do not have time to reload; what is the best factory load for 147 grain match ammo?

By the way, I just handled a Walther Q5. The ergos and trigger on that gun is soooo much better than a Glock. I might use that as a dedicated gamer gun instead of a G34 MOS.

Thanks in advance!

Lots of answers, and with all due respect to posters, I agree wioth only a small part of them.

You want to spend as little time and $ on as much ammo as you can shoot. You need training, particularly on how to train yourself, dry fire and live fire to test your dry fire/deal with recoil, and get a reality check. This is what matters.

1) No. All the Ďshoots softerí nonsense is exactly that. Grip the shit out of the gun and shoot drills to learn to handle recoil. As long as the gun tracks consistently (grip, grip, grip!) you are golden. Yes, I can feel/hear a difference. BUT, on the clock, checking accuracy, the bullet weight difference is meaningless and 147ís cost more. Period. Yes I was Ďthat guyí. Then I developed skills and tested the hell out of it and now realize this is all nonsense that people believe in very strongly - but it is still nonsense. Shoot more with purposeful practice. Get more better.

2) I shoot ACME 124 polymer coated for everything because bulk price (for qty 12,000) delivered is best and quality is acceptable. I used to shoot Bayou. Acceptable quality @ price is my religion - pay less = shoot more. http://www.acmebullet.com/bullets-reloading-brass/bulk%20bullets?product_id=545

3) I will shoot cheaper, harder CCI primers in practice and save my softer therefore more reiable, more expensive Federal primers for matches. I jsut scored a bulk load of Winchester at an even cheaper price, they should be between Federal and CCI in terms of hardness.

4) If you are buying ammo buy the cheapest that runs reliably in your gun. These will not be heavy (147gr bullets). The tradeoff here is time.

On reloading: IF you buy components in bulk and get good prices, and particularly if you can get your brass free (pick after matches) / buy cheap, pays. If you donít have time, or if your reloading equipment / process is too inefficient time-wise for your desired volume, then you may be better off buying loaded ammo in bulk. I invested in equipment / process and bulk purchasing, and can time-efficiently reload large quantities for well under 50% of what you can buy even the cheapest bulk ammo for.

Paul D
07-29-2018, 10:01 AM
I shoot American Eagle 115 for practice and matches, and buy it from SGammo.

I love the Walther Q5, although I find getting 22 rounds in the Glock mags with Taran baseplates is an advantage. If you go Walther, I would consider direct milling a five inch PPQ, as I believe MOS systems are harder on optics.I thought both production and CO limited one to 10 rounds a mag. Is there something I'm missing?

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

GJM
07-29-2018, 10:06 AM
I thought both production and CO limited one to 10 rounds a mag. Is there something I'm missing?

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

CO is now 140mm mag limit.

Jim Watson
07-29-2018, 10:12 AM
QUOTE=Paul D

1) I've noticed that more that half of the USPSA 9 mm shooters use 147 grain bullets (instead of 115/124). Any competitive advantage to this? Lower snappiness due to heavier bullet?

Like others, I prefer the felt recoil sensation of heavier bullets. It is kind of like a .38 Special with 10-20 rounds. I am ok with 135 gr bullets and I once even had a Princess and the Pea moment and loaded a batch of coated 124s that felt particularly soft and still made Minor. That was strange because a 124 jacketed has more snap than I like.

2) Do you guys use plated bullets for practice and use a different bullet (ie fully jacketed match) for competition? What is your favorite brand of bullets?

No, I am not good enough to tell the difference at speed. I have one gun that feeds better with the rather pointy 147 gr plated or jacketed so that is what it gets, my other main match gun is ok with the 135 coated. I am loading a lot of Xtreme plated largely because they are cheap when on holiday sales. We shall have to see what the bankruptcy reorganization does to that. I also use the even less expensive Black Bullets International coated, largely because I sometimes shoot with the proprietor.

3) Do you load differently for practice vs match? More QA with match ammo or it's the same thing.

No. I cartridge gauge 100%. Rounds are match grade or reject. Nearly all rejects will plunk and shoot and are fine for practice.


4) If I do not have time to reload; what is the best factory load for 147 grain match ammo?

Beats me. If I got in that fix, I would just put up with the snap and crack of Econoball from Cheapmart.

olstyn
07-29-2018, 10:15 AM
2) I shoot ACME 124 polymer coated for everything because bulk price (for qty 12,000) delivered is best and quality is acceptable. I used to shoot Bayou. Acceptable quality @ price is my religion - pay less = shoot more. http://www.acmebullet.com/bullets-reloading-brass/bulk%20bullets?product_id=545

I tried ACME 124 RNs, but couldn't get them to plunk in my P99's barrel when loaded any longer than 1.037", which probably means I'd have had to go down to 1.030" in order to account for variations caused by mixed brass, etc. I was uncomfortable loading that short, and as a result, I never shot any of them. I question whether I'd have been able to get them up to ~130 PF out of a 4" barrel without running into pressure issues. If the OP does end up going with a Q5 or other Walther and wants to use those bullets, I would advise ordering the smallest sample pack available and testing them out prior to committing to a big order. I initially ordered a 500-count package of them to try and now I have about 495 sitting in a cabinet above my loading bench which will probably never be used. Blue Bullets 125 gr TCs work just fine for me at more reasonable OALs, and are at least close to the ACMEs in price. IIRC the difference was about a tenth of a cent per bullet in case quantities.

GJM
07-29-2018, 10:16 AM
Most of the factory ball 147, like the AE and Lawman, is pretty snappy. To take advantage of 147, you probably will need to reload.

GuanoLoco
07-29-2018, 10:45 AM
I tried ACME 124 RNs, but couldn't get them to plunk in my P99's barrel when loaded any longer than 1.037", which probably means I'd have had to go down to 1.030" in order to account for variations caused by mixed brass, etc. I was uncomfortable loading that short, and as a result, I never shot any of them. I question whether I'd have been able to get them up to ~130 PF out of a 4" barrel without running into pressure issues. If the OP does end up going with a Q5 or other Walther and wants to use those bullets, I would advise ordering the smallest sample pack available and testing them out prior to committing to a big order. I initially ordered a 500-count package of them to try and now I have about 495 sitting in a cabinet above my loading bench which will probably never be used. Blue Bullets 125 gr TCs work just fine for me at more reasonable OALs, and are at least close to the ACMEs in price. IIRC the difference was about a tenth of a cent per bullet in case quantities.

ACME changed their 9mm 124gr nose profile a ways back to address this specific problem. Note the pointiness of the new bullets in the picture. I donít think I have any of the old rounder nose bullets handy for comparison.

The last couple/few batches I have ordered have been clearly labeled ĎNew Nose Profileí and I can load then to whatever COAL I like. Iíve run 10ís of thousands of them in Tanfo Stock 2ís, CZ P-07ís, Glock 19ís and a short-throated AR-9 I built. My current OAL is < 1.1130Ē (not too long, not too short...) and they have run fine in everything.

olstyn
07-29-2018, 10:56 AM
ACME changed their 9mm 124gr nose profile a ways back to address this specific problem. Note the pointiness of the new bullets in the picture.

That does look like a much better bullet profile for guns with short/tight throats than the ones sitting in my cabinet. The ones I have are much "stubbier."

RJ
07-29-2018, 11:14 AM
Thanks guys, good info here.

I have a case of Speer Lawman 115 from sgammo in the safe I plan to use for USPSA and my Gabe class in Sep. I took a box to the range today and shot a 97-4X on The Test with my G19.5 today.

GuanoLoco
07-29-2018, 11:28 AM
That does look like a much better bullet profile for guns with short/tight throats than the ones sitting in my cabinet. The ones I have are much "stubbier."

I formerly shot the ACME 135ís for eactly that reason. They were slightly more expensive. Now that they fixed the nose profile I am on the 124ís.

GJM
07-29-2018, 11:49 AM
Two different optics (Shield on PPQ and DP Pro on Q5), but you can get the idea how much lower a direct mount places the dot.

28561

GJM
07-29-2018, 12:01 PM
Thanks guys, good info here.

I have a case of Speer Lawman 115 from sgammo in the safe I plan to use for USPSA and my Gabe class in Sep. I took a box to the range today and shot a 97-4X on The Test with my G19.5 today.


Rich, I have done some of my best 100 yard shooting with a Gen 3 17 and Lawman 115. The Lawman 115 load seems especially accurate in multiple Gen 3 pistols. That said, I canít think of a worse loading for a class where you will shoot a lot, or for USPSA. That load is snappy!

ranger
07-29-2018, 12:12 PM
I load all my 9mm except self defense ammo. I load the 124s as best compromise on recoil, performance on steel, and cost. I shoot a lot of Bayou 124s and buy the quantity that best fits the USPS "one price shipping" box. Recently, I ran across a deal on "pulled" 147s and loaded them subsonic for my Suppressed MPX - shot them in my M&P 2.0's also and they were very nice shooting!

I load the same load for practice and competition but I pay a lot more attention on QC on match ammo. I pick up range brass and sometimes get a 9mm Major case or such that fails case gauge. I thrown this in a box to be "bulge-busted" later.

GuanoLoco
07-29-2018, 12:54 PM
>> 3) Do you load differently for practice vs match? More QA with match ammo or it's the same thing.

All ammo getís QCíd the same. Periodic checks for COAL, crimp and primer seating depth. Periodic (infrequent) checks for 20-throw average charge weights. Everything gets case gauged in a Hundo CG. No diff between practice and match ammo in terms of process. I might use different components (like Federal primers for match).

CG failures (even mildly split cases) go into a ĎCG Failureí practice ammo bin and are used to see how forgiving various guns/chambers are .

Dr. No
07-29-2018, 01:02 PM
I am thinking about getting into USPSA production and/or carry optics and I would like to ask the knowledgeable some questions about ammo. I currently reload on my Dillon 650 (or buy when priced right) 115 grain 9mm ammo for my Glocks and other 9 mm guns. Right now I am using 115 gr Berry's RN with Titegroup 4.5 gr. I am willing to get a separate toolhead set up for a specific load outside what I already have.

1) I've noticed that more that half of the USPSA 9 mm shooters use 147 grain bullets (instead of 115/124). Any competitive advantage to this? Lower snappiness due to heavier bullet?

2) Do you guys use plated bullets for practice and use a different bullet (ie fully jacketed match) for competition? What is your favorite brand of bullets?

3) Do you load differently for practice vs match? More QA with match ammo or it's the same thing.

4) If I do not have time to reload; what is the best factory load for 147 grain match ammo?

By the way, I just handled a Walther Q5. The ergos and trigger on that gun is soooo much better than a Glock. I might use that as a dedicated gamer gun instead of a G34 MOS.

Thanks in advance!

I personally prefer 124/125's. I like the snappy return to center feeling - with 147's I felt like I was waiting on the gun. Also, I shot a lot of HK's and they were all optimized for 124, so that's how it originated. Now I have a load that makes 130pf out of my Hayes Custom STI 9mm, VP9, and my MPX. So I can make one bulk load and shoot it in anything. Much preferable.

I will say that the coated lead seems to be the cheapest route. I found them to still be pretty dirty. Now I buy precision delta 50k at a time. It's a big check to drop, but it'll feed me for 2-3 years and doesn't cost that much more than coated at that point. These are JHP too, so they keep the gun a lot cleaner since the back of the bullet is sealed.

No, use the same loads for both. I chamber check everything. Probably excessive, but it means I can grab anything out of the closet and depend on it.

I'd look at the syntech stuff USPSA is making in conjunction with Federal. Makes good PF, and heavy stuff. May not be the cheapest.

Glocks are horrible. :)

Paul D
07-29-2018, 01:12 PM
Two different optics (Shield on PPQ and DP Pro on Q5), but you can get the idea how much lower a direct mount places the dot.

28561I like the PPQ/Q5 but the top of the slide seems too narrow for a direct mount without some type of plate. Am I wrong? Man that DPP sits high on that Q5. Maybe I should stick with the Glock

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

RJ
07-29-2018, 02:12 PM
Rich, I have done some of my best 100 yard shooting with a Gen 3 17 and Lawman 115. The Lawman 115 load seems especially accurate in multiple Gen 3 pistols. That said, I canít think of a worse loading for a class where you will shoot a lot, or for USPSA. That load is snappy!

K.

On the other hand I should not have any cycling issues. :cool:

GJM
07-29-2018, 03:01 PM
K.

On the other hand I should not have any cycling issues. :cool:

Yep, I use that load when I want to simulate .40 S&W in my 9mm pistols.

Clusterfrack
07-29-2018, 03:34 PM
I'm late to this party... lots of great info here already, but here are a few comments.

1) When I was competing in Production with G34s, I found 147gr bullets to be significantly more accurate than any other. There's also the advantage of it being very easy to make minor power factor with 147s. When I switched to a Sig p320, I found that 125gr bullets were superior to the 147s in those guns.

I have seen issues with accuracy and ejection using 115s in Glocks, and I just don't like the feel of them either.

Before my buddies dumped their M&Ps, the worst vertical stringing happened with 115s.

Yesterday's match: a dude bought some cheap 115gr ammo for his G34 and discovered that now he couldn't hit small targets. Half of his shots were 6 to 12" high. He was incredibly frustrated.

2) I'm using 125gr Bluebullets in my Shadow2s.

3) No. Just more QC.

4) I like the new Federal Syntech 150gr match ammo.

A buddy is now shooting a Q5 and is kicking ass. He's found them to be very reliable. It does not fit my hand (strong hand middle finger knuckle hits sharp corner of trigger guard), but it really works for a lot of folks.


I am thinking about getting into USPSA production and/or carry optics and I would like to ask the knowledgeable some questions about ammo. I currently reload on my Dillon 650 (or buy when priced right) 115 grain 9mm ammo for my Glocks and other 9 mm guns. Right now I am using 115 gr Berry's RN with Titegroup 4.5 gr. I am willing to get a separate toolhead set up for a specific load outside what I already have.

1) I've noticed that more that half of the USPSA 9 mm shooters use 147 grain bullets (instead of 115/124). Any competitive advantage to this? Lower snappiness due to heavier bullet?

2) Do you guys use plated bullets for practice and use a different bullet (ie fully jacketed match) for competition? What is your favorite brand of bullets?

3) Do you load differently for practice vs match? More QA with match ammo or it's the same thing.

4) If I do not have time to reload; what is the best factory load for 147 grain match ammo?

By the way, I just handled a Walther Q5. The ergos and trigger on that gun is soooo much better than a Glock. I might use that as a dedicated gamer gun instead of a G34 MOS.

Thanks in advance!

GJM
07-29-2018, 03:54 PM
American Eagle 115 was the load I used in my Walther PPQ and Q5 pistols. Our multiple Gen 5 34 pistols gobble up American Eagle 115, and regularly shoot five shot, 25 yard groups with American Eagle of about 1.5 inches. This is a five shot, 20 yard group I shot with AE 115 a week or two ago, while zeroing a new DP Pro in a Gen 4 34.

28574

Norville
07-29-2018, 05:29 PM
A lot of people shot 115s, 124s or 147s. I donít think there is a material difference, so if I reloaded Iíd probably go 124.

Since I donít, I shoot AE 147s. They are 140 plus power factor, but I guess I have gotten used to it. At that level my G34s cycle quick enough with a 13 lb recoil spring. I have been pleased with the accuracy and reliability.

I shot the 150gr Syntech in a match yesterday. Not sold completely, but it is definitely softer. The G34 felt a bit sluggish, so if I decide to go with it I would try a Vogel recommended 11 lb recoil spring.

Iíd say try a few and see what feels best. And that may change as you gain experience.

RJ
07-29-2018, 07:29 PM
A lot of people shot 115s, 124s or 147s. I donít think there is a material difference, so if I reloaded Iíd probably go 124.

Since I donít, I shoot AE 147s. They are 140 plus power factor, but I guess I have gotten used to it. At that level my G34s cycle quick enough with a 13 lb recoil spring. I have been pleased with the accuracy and reliability.

I shot the 150gr Syntech in a match yesterday. Not sold completely, but it is definitely softer. The G34 felt a bit sluggish, so if I decide to go with it I would try a Vogel recommended 11 lb recoil spring.

Iíd say try a few and see what feels best. And that may change as you gain experience.

See, I kind of get this.

I grip the crap out of the gun and focus on the front sight. Iíve tried 115 FM, LM, BB, AE; 124 FM, LM, AE, S&B; and 147 AE and LM. Dang if I can tell much difference. It may be my build; although being a bit plump, I actually do have an oddly large chest (44Ē) and quite a bit of upper body from weightlifting as a kid, which for a guy thatís 5í7Ē is kind of odd.

As well, since Iíve joined PF, and taken a few classes and done some matches, perhaps *some* recoil control has sunk in. So between that and my chest, maybe Iím just somewhat intolerant to feeling recoil.

Or Iím a completely ignorant on this, which is possible.

At any rate; I canít get past the positive feeling those 115 LM rounds gave me at the range today. They might be zippy but I kind of liked it; it was like pop pop pop just felt really good in my Glock 19. And the score, well a 97-4X may not be super for some of you guys but ďfor meĒ it is like really good.

GJM
07-29-2018, 08:34 PM
See, I kind of get this.

I grip the crap out of the gun and focus on the front sight. Iíve tried 115 FM, LM, BB, AE; 124 FM, LM, AE, S&B; and 147 AE and LM. Dang if I can tell much difference. It may be my build; although being a bit plump, I actually do have an oddly large chest (44Ē) and quite a bit of upper body from weightlifting as a kid, which for a guy thatís 5í7Ē is kind of odd.

As well, since Iíve joined PF, and taken a few classes and done some matches, perhaps *some* recoil control has sunk in. So between that and my chest, maybe Iím just somewhat intolerant to feeling recoil.

Or Iím a completely ignorant on this, which is possible.

At any rate; I canít get past the positive feeling those 115 LM rounds gave me at the range today. They might be zippy but I kind of liked it; it was like pop pop pop just felt really good in my Glock 19. And the score, well a 97-4X may not be super for some of you guys but ďfor meĒ it is like really good.

I suspect the reason you canít differentiate between different loads yet, is you are earlier in the journey.

RJ
07-29-2018, 08:47 PM
Also, I shot a lot of HK's and they were all optimized for 124, so that's how it originated.




Dr. No - Could you elaborate on that?

Iím not a gunsmith, but Iím assuming it has to do with the spring rate of the RSA? I also ask because my 2015 VP9 had a RSA that if Iím not mistaken later in Production was replaced by the .40 RSA. Extending this to my current gun, a Gen 5 Glock, are they Ďtunedí to a certain ammo or are they more broadly designed than that?

Dr. No
07-29-2018, 08:55 PM
Dr. No - Could you elaborate on that?

Iím not a gunsmith, but Iím assuming it has to do with the spring rate of the RSA? I also ask because my 2015 VP9 had a RSA that if Iím not mistaken later in Production was replaced by the .40 RSA. Extending this to my current gun, a Gen 5 Glock, are they Ďtunedí to a certain ammo or are they more broadly designed than that?


Can't find anything now, but I have always been told HK pistols are designed around the 124/125 round due to that being a standard German load. That info came from armorers at the factory when I was shooting for the team.

GJM
07-29-2018, 08:59 PM
Can't find anything now, but I have always been told HK pistols are designed around the 124/125 round due to that being a standard German load. That info came from armorers at the factory when I was shooting for the team.

Same understanding here. When a number of the HK pistols were first designed, like the MP5 and P7, 147 ammo wasnít really around. 147 could cause malfunctions in the MP5 and P7, as was discovered when 147 ammo became more prevalent. NATO 9mm is 124 grain.

Doc_Glock
07-29-2018, 09:10 PM
Same understanding here. When a number of the HK pistols were first designed, like the MP5 and P7, 147 ammo wasnít really around. 147 could cause malfunctions in the MP5 and P7, as was discovered when 147 ammo became more prevalent. NATO 9mm is 124 grain.

So what are Beretta 92s design ammo? I must assume 124 NATO.

JSGlock34
07-29-2018, 11:10 PM
I like the new Federal Syntech 150gr match ammo.

I'll second this - I've had good experience with this load, and the recoil is noticeably softer than any other factory load I've tried. I have some Atlanta Arms Select to use up, but once that's gone the Syntech Action Pistol will be my match ammunition.

RJ
07-30-2018, 04:42 AM
I'll second this - I've had good experience with this load, and the recoil is noticeably softer than any other factory load I've tried. I have some Atlanta Arms Select to use up, but once that's gone the Syntech Action Pistol will be my match ammunition.

Thanks Iíll look into this ammo.

GJM
07-30-2018, 06:02 AM
I'll second this - I've had good experience with this load, and the recoil is noticeably softer than any other factory load I've tried. I have some Atlanta Arms Select to use up, but once that's gone the Syntech Action Pistol will be my match ammunition.

I have a vague recollection of seeing reports that it was not particularly accurate ó anyone shot groups with it?

GJM
07-30-2018, 06:25 AM
Interesting review, who has shot a fair amount of this Syntech ammo?

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/8/23/federal-american-eagle-syntech-handgun-ammunition-review/

357carbine
08-02-2018, 07:41 PM
Good price for Syntech 9mm 150 gr at Brownells. Buy two of the 500 round ($113.99) add code "JBA" and you get a case(1000 rds) for $202.98 shipped.
Don't forget to go thru the pistol-forum link!

Norville
08-23-2019, 04:01 PM
Interesting review, who has shot a fair amount of this Syntech ammo?

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/8/23/federal-american-eagle-syntech-handgun-ammunition-review/

I know this is an older thread, but thought Iíd update with my experience.

Itís soft and quiet shooting. A case I bought last year gives me a misfire once in every box. Resetting the trigger without ejecting it will fire it on the second hit in the identical spot. If I eject it and reload, itís 50-50 if it goes off. Recently Iíve been through about 2k rounds of recent production in the slightly larger boxes with no problems.

I shot the MN section match with it and was pleased. This match had no steel due to inconsistency and wanting to run smooth with no equipment failure issues.

Two weeks later at the WI section a guy on my squad got popper screwed using this load. Decent hit but did not fall. Dude with the calibration gun dropped it like a rock. On our last stage we had 5 poppers in a close together row at about 9 yards with a clamshell and two targets behind vision barriers. I was first on my squad and had a great run. Called every shot- all 5 steel, 5 alpha and one Charlie on the paper.

At the unload and show clear I got a strange look from the RO. One of the poppers was still standing with a hit about 2Ē below the center of the circle. I ask for calibration. This time it fell slower than a tortoise, but it fell. RO tells me
I got popper Ďeffed.

Iím going back to 147 AE. Itís 142+ PF but poppers always fall.

Minnesota
08-25-2019, 03:14 AM
As a data point for whatever its worth factory blazer brass 147 made 153 power factor out of my glock 34 gen 5 at the MN section match.

IT1 Wes
04-30-2020, 10:10 PM
In general I find that the heavier the bullet the softer the feel. This is most noticeable in lighter guns like Glocks. As the gun gets heavier it becomes less noticeable to almost negligible. In any given course of fire or drill shooting performance differences are basically imperceptible. But over high round count practices or matches the fatigue of shooting sharper impulsed rounds can add up to minor decreased performance. By minor I mean a really small increase in "bad" shots. Maybe 5 out of 600, hard to say. I also find it slightly easier to track soghts with a softer round.

To get more weight into the pistol many add tungsten guide rods and heavy magazine base plates. I found a use for the cavity at the rear of the Glock grip. I crammed two ounces of tungsten putty into it. It's found in the Pinewood Derby section of Amazon.

53140

Had to leave room for the magwell's brass weight.

IT1 Wes
04-30-2020, 10:13 PM
What factory loaded brands and projectile weights will yield major power factor?

Not into reloading.

cheby
04-30-2020, 11:01 PM
What factory loaded brands and projectile weights will yield major power factor?

Not into reloading.

Basically any (Almost) 40SW and 45ACP

olstyn
05-01-2020, 08:10 AM
As a data point for whatever its worth factory blazer brass 147 made 153 power factor out of my glock 34 gen 5 at the MN section match.

Admittedly you've got a longer barrel than my P99 (5.3" vs 4 "), so that's a factor, but that load is making 22PF higher than my 125 gr hand loads (I chronoed 131 at the 2019 MN section match), which means it's traveling almost as fast even though those bullets are 22 grains heavier. I bet blazer brass 147 would still make minor with some cushion out of a 3" barrel.