Turkish Hi-power Pistols--C&S Says They're Good

[Tokarev]

I've always loved the BHP and have a strong interest in owning a C&S, Yost, etc. Problem is price ain't cheap. These guns don't come up used often and command big bucks. And we can all but forget about finding a decent used base model and commissioning a build that way.

Anyway, there's a Turkish clone made by Tisas that's recently hit the market. By and large these guns have been pretty well received. What really surprised me is that C&S is building on them.

I talked to one of the gunsmith fellows there this morning for awhile. Nice guy and quite knowledgeable about the BHP. He says the Turkish guns appear to be a solid value and are nicer guns than the FM or FEG variety. They have checked one of the guns out pretty thoroughly to include getting hardness samples for the components. Metallurgy appears good.

Are they perfect? No. The frame tang radius is off and the sight dovetails are something unique.

This pistol pictured below is a C&S full-on custom. Price is $2400 so the gun is still too much for me.

Have a good weekend!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180720/7cf9a1d5df8fc04788d9dedc5817b6f6.jpg

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[1986s4]

I like the HP too and I have owned several but haven't kept one. I can't get past the lack of even a modest beavertail, why can't one of these clone producers make a version with one? Anyway my SAO CZ 75 and Colt .38 super seem to meet my SAO needs for now.

[Tokarev]

I like the HP too and I have owned several but haven't kept one. I can't get past the lack of even a modest beavertail...

It would make sense to make a modern BHP clone. At least with a few mild tweaks.



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[1986s4]

It would make sense to make a modern BHP clone. At least with a few mild tweaks.



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Thing is, the AR 15 bug has hit me...

[Sigfan26]

I've always loved the BHP and have a strong interest in owning a C&S, Yost, etc. Problem is price ain't cheap. These guns don't come up used often and command big bucks. And we can all but forget about finding a decent used base model and commissioning a build that way.

Anyway, there's a Turkish clone made by Tisas that's recently hit the market. By and large these guns have been pretty well received. What really surprised me is that C&S is building on them.

I talked to one of the gunsmith fellows there this morning for awhile. Nice guy and quite knowledgeable about the BHP. He says the Turkish guns appear to be a solid value and are nicer guns than the FM or FEG variety. They have checked one of the guns out pretty thoroughly to include getting hardness samples for the components. Metallurgy appears good.

Are they perfect? No. The frame tang radius is off and the sight dovetails are something unique.

This pistol pictured below is a C&S full-on custom. Price is $2400 so the gun is still too much for me.

Have a good weekend!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180720/7cf9a1d5df8fc04788d9dedc5817b6f6.jpg

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A buddy and I are Hi Power fans. He bought a Turkish, I bought a MK3. Brownells drop in barrel? WILL NOT work in his Turkish clone without a lot of fitting. Drops in my MK3. Also, he has fitted C&S safeties to 3 previous Hi Powers. The Turkish clone took twice as long as legit Browning guns. I don’t think the Turks are there yet.


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[JonInWA]

They may not be totally spot on, but they seem to be the only viable game in town, particularly for a decent quality BNIB Hi Power. Frankly, I've always pretty much considered "drop in" components (especially major components-like barrels, slides, et al) to be gunsmithing propositions. Best, Jon

[Sigfan26]

They may not be totally spot on, but they seem to be the only viable game in town, particularly for a decent quality BNIB Hi Power. Frankly, I've always pretty much considered "drop in" components (especially major components-like barrels, slides, et al) to be gunsmithing propositions. Best, Jon

Just saying, components spec’d to be semi drop in in the original manufacturers guns seem to. In the Turkish clones, not so much. My buddy does love the gun, but said it is definitely not true to FN/Browning Spec (I get all the parts he doesn’t feel like fitting, so I’m ok with that)


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[Bigghoss]

I remember hearing about these somewhere else as being decent. Brownells had them for $500 iirc. I only have my Belgian surplus MKii but it would be cool to have a new one with better sights and safety.

[Inkwell 41]

A company called BHSS ran one of the stainless guns for 6K rounds. According to BHSS, the firing pin plate broke at around 5000 rounds. The extractor broke at around 500 rounds. Replacing the extractor with an FN unit resulted in poor extraction. This is all from a thread on 1911forum.com. It sounds like Tisas, the manufacturer, is aware and addressing the matter.

[Tokarev]

A company called BHSS ran one of the stainless guns for 6K rounds. According to BHSS, the firing pin plate broke at around 5000 rounds. The extractor broke at around 500 rounds. Replacing the extractor with an FN unit resulted in poor extraction. This is all from a thread on 1911forum.com. It sounds like Tisas, the manufacturer, is aware and addressing the matter.I broke a firing pin retaining plate on a genuine mid-1980s BHP so that's not a deal breaker. And I've cracked a few on a 1911 although I have never had one break in two was with my Browning.

C&S told me (IIRC) the Tisas extractor they checked was 38 RC and is within spec.

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[Tokarev]

Just saying, components spec’d to be semi drop in in the original manufacturers guns seem to. In the Turkish clones, not so much. My buddy does love the gun, but said it is definitely not true to FN/Browning Spec (I get all the parts he doesn’t feel like fitting, so I’m ok with that)


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBrownell's says their drop-in threaded barrel fit in their Tisas fine.

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[Inkwell 41]

I broke a firing pin retaining plate on a genuine mid-1980s BHP so that's not a deal breaker. And I've cracked a few on a 1911 although I have never had one break in two was with my Browning.

C&S told me (IIRC) the Tisas extractor they checked was 38 RC and is within spec.

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Admittedly, the test BHSS ran was a sample of one. Just think it's prudent to get a bigger sample size out there before jumping in. And I'm not questioning C&S, they have a great reputation. FN had what, 75 years of experience with producing the design? Tisas has an unknown amount of time producing them.

[Sigfan26]

Brownell's says their drop-in threaded barrel fit in their Tisas fine.

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My parents told me a story of a Jolly old fat man who left presents once a year... I can assure you, my buddy didn’t mail me this barrel because it fit in his Tisas. He mailed it to me because it was going to be a pain in the ass to fit to his Tisas (fits my MK3 like a glove)


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[Tokarev]

My parents told me a story of a Jolly old fat man who left presents once a year... I can assure you, my buddy didn’t mail me this barrel because it fit in his Tisas. He mailed it to me because it was going to be a pain in the ass to fit to his Tisas (fits my MK3 like a glove)


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI'm not saying your a liar. Just pointing out that Paul Levy says the Brownell's drop-in barrel fit in their sample.

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[Tokarev]

Here's the only other option I know of for a new HiPower currently.

This is from Elite Warrior Armament in Rio Rancho, NM. As I understand it, these are all more or less custom builds done one at a time as ordered. Probably not likely to be $500 a copy although quite nice regardless.

These aren't 100% correct either. Note the unique and different (more 1911 in appearance) radius behind the trigger pin. A small detail that wouldn't keep me from buying one if money became available.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180721/03297c8cb3f7d9fcfe6e787d27b6ef4f.jpg

Here's Jeff Quinn's write-up:

http://www.gunblast.com/EWA-P35.htm

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[Poconnor]

The stainless hipower clone is on my short list.

[Tokarev]

The stainless hipower clone is on my short list.C&S sells a "tweaked" stainless Tisas for a Grand. Probably the only things I'd change/add would be some Novak or Heinie sights and maybe some VZ grips.

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[Clobbersaurus]

My first pistol was a browning Hi-Power so they have always held a soft spot for me. What is the trigger reset like on Hi-Powers? I’ve heard it’s quite long. I didn’t know much about shooting when I had mine, so I really can’t remember much about the trigger.

[Tokarev]

My first pistol was a browning Hi-Power so they have always held a soft spot for me. What is the trigger reset like on Hi-Powers? I’ve heard it’s quite long. I didn’t know much about shooting when I had mine, so I really can’t remember much about the trigger.Longer than some. There are gunsmith mods to shorten reset but that's probably not necessary unless you're Leatham or Miculek.

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[JAD]

My first pistol was a browning Hi-Power so they have always held a soft spot for me. What is the trigger reset like on Hi-Powers? I’ve heard it’s quite long. I didn’t know much about shooting when I had mine, so I really can’t remember much about the trigger.

It’s long and silent, which bothers people who ride the reset. It is also an awful trigger if the magazine safety is left in place.

[Tokarev]

It’s long and silent, which bothers people who ride the reset. It is also an awful trigger if the magazine safety is left in place.The points of contact on the magazine and magazine safety can be polished. This helps clean the trigger up for those who might want to leave the safety in place.

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[Tokarev]

Some gunsmith/pricing info.

http://www.theactionworks.com/browning-hi-power/

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[Chuck Whitlock]

The stainless option is interesting.

[Tokarev]

The stainless option is interesting.Has anyone made a stainless HP previously? Not counting the Elite Warrior linked above. I seem to remember Charles Daly offering a stainless option? Maybe I'm hallucinating.

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[Chuck Whitlock]

Has anyone made a stainless HP previously? Not counting the Elite Warrior linked above. I seem to remember Charles Daly offering a stainless option? Maybe I'm hallucinating.

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Browning did some hard chrome frames, but the Elite Warrior and the Tisas are the only ones that come to mind.

[pastaslinger]

Was the practical a cast stainless frame?

[Inkwell 41]

I believe cast frames started during MKIII production. Seem to remember it had something to do with the introduction of .40 S&W to the platform.

[Corse]

I believe cast frames started during MKIII production. Seem to remember it had something to do with the introduction of .40 S&W to the platform.

That's how I understand it. The forged frame would not hold up to the 40. So the cast frame was used for MKIIIs. The 40 also got a heavier slide and another locking lug on the barrel.

[Tokarev]

That's how I understand it. The forged frame would not hold up to the 40. So the cast frame was used for MKIIIs. The 40 also got a heavier slide and another locking lug on the barrel.

Did the MKIII cast frame come out as a response to the 40 or was it an attempt to beef up the 9 that happened to also work well with the 40?

[Trooper224]

Did the MKIII cast frame come out as a response to the 40 or was it an attempt to beef up the 9 that happened to also work well with the 40?

The cast frame was in direct response to durability issues in the .40 HP, which carried over into 9mm production. I owned one of the first .40 HPs and it didn't stay long. I've never been enamored with the round and the extra snappy recoil was juice unworthy of the squeeze in that svelte pistol.

I love the High Power, unfortunately it doesn't love my big hands. I've owned several over the years and always wind up moving it along because of that. I don't think there's ever been a gun I wanted to work for me more than the P35. I think its time has passed as a top tier fighting handgun, much like the 1911. On the other hand, there are few handguns as proven as the High power. The trigger linkage is an absolute abortion to work on, but it can be done.


As far as I know, the Tisas is the only stainless HP option, now or ever. FN hard chromed their guns, they were never stainless.

[Tokarev]

I love the High Power, unfortunately it doesn't love my big hands.

I have fairly decent meathooks too.

Have you ever had a BHP with the beavertail mod? They look like heck but should help with hammer and slide bite.



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[Trooper224]

I have fairly decent meathooks too.

Have you ever had a BHP with the beavertail mod? They look like heck but should help with hammer and slide bite.



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Yes. I've never had much of a problem with hammer bite on the spur hammer version of the HP. The rowel hammer though? By Jupiter's cock, that's a different story. My issue lies with the guns overall dimensions. My thumbs interfere with the function of the slide stop. If I'm not careful premature lock back is a chronic issue. The off side thumb safety also digs into my hand like crazy, so that's an automatic removal for me. Just too many issues to make it a viable carry gun for me.

[Lester Polfus]

Yes. I've never had much of a problem with hammer bite on the spur hammer version of the HP. The rowel hammer though? By Jupiter's cock, that's a different story. My issue lies with the guns overall dimensions. My thumbs interfere with the function of the slide stop. If I'm not careful premature lock back is a chronic issue. The off side thumb safety also digs into my hand like crazy, so that's an automatic removal for me. Just too many issues to make it a viable carry gun for me.

That's pretty much my exact experience. Shooting a BHP has always reminded me of of some of the gals I met during my internet dating experiences on match.com. Looked awesome on paper, but didn't work out in real life.

Note to self: try to use the phrase "by Jupiter's Cock!" in conversation...

[awp_101]

Note to self: try to use the phrase "by Jupiter's Cock!" in conversation...
I was just wondering who I could slip that into conversation with at work. OK, maybe a bad choice of words...

[Lon]

Note to self: try to use the phrase "by Jupiter's Cock!" in conversation...

I’d have to say that 99 people out of 100 wont get it and will look at you like you’re stupid for thinking a planet has a cock.

[Trooper224]

I’d have to say that 99 people out of 100 wont get it and will look at you like you’re stupid for thinking a planet has a cock.

I disagree. Ninety nine out of one hundred won't even know Jupiter is a planet, let alone anything else.

[Tokarev]

A company called BHSS ran one of the stainless guns for 6K rounds. According to BHSS, the firing pin plate broke at around 5000 rounds. The extractor broke at around 500 rounds. Replacing the extractor with an FN unit resulted in poor extraction. This is all from a thread on 1911forum.com. It sounds like Tisas, the manufacturer, is aware and addressing the matter.Here's the thread from 1911 Forum:

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums%2E1911forum%2Ec om%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D970390&share_tid=970390&share_fid=20522&share_type=t

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[Chuck Whitlock]

I have fairly decent meathooks too.

Have you ever had a BHP with the beavertail mod? They look like heck but should help with hammer and slide bite.

I've been thinking that, when the bluing on my HP's frame has worn down and/or I start seeing corrosion issues, it's going to Robar for stippling and NP3, and might as well go all in with the beavertail treatment. My hands are small, but with the .40 HP I had in the 90's, the web of my hand would start bleeding after a couple of boxes of ammo.

[Tokarev]

Not Tisas specific but it is BHP related:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6lGsH7V5M4&feature=youtu.be

[Sammy1]

US is threatening sanctions against Turkey. Might have to buy one sooner than later.

[Bucky]

The big problem with the HP for me is that goofy slide stop. I find it interferes with my grip.


I broke a firing pin retaining plate on a genuine mid-1980s BHP so that's not a deal breaker. And I've cracked a few on a 1911 although I have never had one break in two was with my Browning.


I’ve broken a few of these on my 1911ish competition guns. The cool thing is, it never effected reliability, and I never realized it was broken until I detail stripped the slide.


Longer than some. There are gunsmith mods to shorten reset but that's probably not necessary unless you're Leatham or Miculek.


Being Miculek is a revolver guy, I’m sure he doesn’t mind reset. ;).

[Tokarev]

Being Miculek is a revolver guy, I’m sure he doesn’t mind reset. ;).

Jerry shot on my squad one year at the Nationals. He ran a S&W 1911. He's NOT just a "revolver" guy....

[Bucky]

Jerry shot on my squad one year at the Nationals. He ran a S&W 1911. He's NOT just a "revolver" guy....

Never said he was, that was just what he is most famous for. He’s a heck of a three gun shooter as well. Had the pleasure of being squadded with him as well.

[CajunMP357]

I owned a very nice TISAS .45 back in the 90's. That thing was a tack driver!

[Trukinjp13]

I have never had the pleasure of shooting a one but these Tisas look tempting. The hi-power was always one of the guns I really wanted.

[Trukinjp13]

https://bhspringsolutions.com/content/43-critical-review-of-the-tisas-regent-br9-hp-hi-power

[Bigghoss]

I was at the LGS today picking up some stuff and two Tisas Hi-Powers had come in while I was there so I got to look at them up close, one stainless and one blued. I'm no expert and I only handled them for a quick few seconds but they felt like a Hi-power. Slide to frame fit felt nice and they came with Mec-Gar 15 round mags. My only gripe was the thumb safety. It was similar to what might have come on one back in the day, not something you could ride with your thumb. I didn't ask a price, they probably wouldn't have know anyway because they hadn't even gotten them logged into inventory. But for the prices I'm seeing, they look like good guns and I'm really thinking about one.

[zeleny]

Frankly, I've always pretty much considered "drop in" components (especially major components-like barrels, slides, et al) to be gunsmithing propositions.Not so in the SIG P210 and its successors: sig p49 testing - larvatus prodeo (https://larvatus.livejournal.com/1576958.html).

[Tokarev]

I was finally able to pick one of these off Gunbroker for maybe a decent price. As soon as I can I'll update with some photos, etc.

[Tokarev]

No rail for a light. No cut for an RMR. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180818/df39db6edae63c814898a6eaa0bf7c88.jpg

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[Tokarev]

No rounds fired yet. Why not? What's wrong with me?

Anyway, here is a bit of info. The new gun appears well made and is free of nasty machine marks, sharp edges, etc. On the other side of that, it is nicely polished and has fairly crisp lines. Maybe a hint of aggressive grinding and buffing underneath the trigger guard but nothing too terrible.

The trigger is actually fairly crisp even with the mag disconnect still in place. It measures a consistent six pounds on my fish scale.

A couple things of note. The grip tang radius is wrong. It isn't as deep or curved as the real thing. The frame radius above the trigger is also wrong. Both are pretty much cosmetic and the gun feels like a BHP.

Missing from the Turkish barrel is the small alignment nub on the barrel hood and the corresponding notch in the slide. This keeps a Belgian barrel from fitting although the Turkish barrel fits into the FN with no apparent problems.

Slides assemblies interchange without issue.

More soon....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180818/98aa1f7a65d5e6a73cc48ac52a71962b.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Sort of an update.

I put about 150 rounds of mixed ammo, to include one mag of 124 HST, 3 mags of 124 Gold Dot and one mag of 124 Gold Dot +P through the gun. Mags used was a Mec-Gar 13, Mec-Gar 15 and an old factory FN mag with no markings.

The hammer is going to have to go if the gun is going to be kept. Or kept and shot. I knew it was coming and was mindful of the problem but still got nipped. I didn't get cut but I did get a small blood blister.

The gun shoots fine but isn't fun with +P ammo. A new hammer would help. At least then I'd be more apt to get a higher more aggressive grip.

I had one failure to extract about halfway through the mag of HST. No other problems before or after.


https://youtu.be/45YhGXlLKh0

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[Gary1911A1]

Just ordered one in stainless this AM. On backorder and don't know when I'll get it if ever with recent problems with the country of Turkey. The Browning was my first carry pistol when you could still pick your own and I have never own one in hard chromed. When it comes in I'll buy some pare parts. I have several holsters and magazines already.

[Tokarev]

Just ordered one in stainless this AM. On backorder and don't know when I'll get it if ever with recent problems with the country of Turkey. The Browning was my first carry pistol when you could still pick your own and I have never own one in hard chromed. When it comes in I'll buy some pare parts. I have several holsters and magazines already.There are several examples on gunbroker currently including a used one that looks close to new. Might be worth a look if you get impatient.

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[Tokarev]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdu6iXPEkBI

[Bigghoss]

No rail for a light. No cut for an RMR.

At the risk of drawing ire, how cool would a Rowland Special Hi-Power be?

[Tokarev]

At the risk of drawing ire, how cool would a Rowland Special Hi-Power be?I could see a certain appeal. At least for a railed frame option.

Ideally the frame would be aluminum to help offset the added weight of a light. It would also include some sort of extended beavertail tang.

I don't think a pistol like that would be terribly hard to produce. But would such an item sell? Maybe if the BR9 takes off we'll see additional model options...

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[Tokarev]

How about this?

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/01/05/recover-tacticals-new-hi-power-grips/

29342

:rolleyes:

[Screwball]

I have the ones for the 1911... and they are solid. Guy that designed them was on the Tavor design team.

Personally, I want light options on my handguns... but for something like a 1911 (only wanted one because of the history... not getting multiples or spending $2,000+ for one), I really don’t want to have a rail permanently installed on the dust cover. Those grips allow me to keep it fitting in non-rail holsters, but if desired, run a light (granted in their holster).

I’m likely going to pick up the stainless Tisas eventually (likely when I leave NJ... not giving them another dollar for pistol permits, so only ones I might pick up before the move will be on my FFL-03 out of state). The Recover Tactical grips could be an option, but I’d want to see if they offer a holster for the new models, like the 1911 (or if the Hi Power version fits in the 1911 holster). I am unsure about going with the SFS trigger, as that has been in YouTube media for the past few weeks... but it does interest me, as well.

Older set (prior to the holster release), but I love the grip on this one...

https://i.imgur.com/OlRjfkw.jpg

[Tokarev]

I have the ones for the 1911... and they are solid. Guy that designed them was on the Tavor design team.

Personally, I want light options on my handguns... but for something like a 1911 (only wanted one because of the history... not getting multiples or spending $2,000+ for one), I really don’t want to have a rail permanently installed on the dust cover. Those grips allow me to keep it fitting in non-rail holsters, but if desired, run a light (granted in their holster).

I’m likely going to pick up the stainless Tisas eventually (likely when I leave NJ... not giving them another dollar for pistol permits, so only ones I might pick up before the move will be on my FFL-03 out of state). The Recover Tactical grips could be an option, but I’d want to see if they offer a holster for the new models, like the 1911 (or if the Hi Power version fits in the 1911 holster). I am unsure about going with the SFS trigger, as that has been in YouTube media for the past few weeks... but it does interest me, as well.

Older set (prior to the holster release), but I love the grip on this one...

https://i.imgur.com/OlRjfkw.jpgI'm sure it is solid as heck. What are you doing for a holster?

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[Screwball]

I'm sure it is solid as heck. What are you doing for a holster?

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For the older one, I have a Fobus EMC holster. Got it because I didn’t know the holster they would put out wouldn’t work with the older grips. It’s ok, but never use it.

The newer ones (I have three sets; original in black, which are stippled, and two newer ones... one in black, one in FDE) work with their holster.

https://i.imgur.com/2oEZPeg.jpg

Is it a Safariland holster? No, but I also don’t put my life on the line with a 1911. For recreational and fundamentals... they work fine. If I were going to put my life on a 1911 (nothing wrong with it, I just rather more rounds in the magazine), I’d likely would have picked something with a rail from the factory, and find a holster setup made directly for it.

It uses the SigTac mounting system, which is a screw into nut mount, with the grooves in a circular pattern for cant adjustment. Is it an awesome mount? Nope, but it allowed me to try different setups without spending too much money (drop-leg, for example... $40-50, compared to a $150+ rig that I wasn’t sure I’d like; did pick other drop-leg holsters up, after I liked it).

[awp_101]

At the risk of drawing ire, how cool would a Rowland Special Hi-Power be?

I think it would be awesome! I could go to the range and feel like I was part of an SAS cosh and carry raid on a bad night in Belfast...:D

[Gary1911A1]

Here's another option for a rail.
https://youtu.be/AiLQzgT3wC0

[Screwball]

Here's another option for a rail.
https://youtu.be/AiLQzgT3wC0

Saw that, but not a fan of drilling...

[Tokarev]

This is probably one of the cleaner rail mods I've seen.

Jim Garthwaite pistol with what I believe was a Dawson rail. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/98938e3801b1da8de8fa42284d46123e.jpg

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[Chuck Whitlock]

Blasphemers!
:p

[Bigghoss]

Blasphemers!
:p

The ire took longer than I thought.

[JAD]

This is probably one of the cleaner rail mods I've seen.

Jim Garthwaite pistol with what I believe was a Dawson rail. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/98938e3801b1da8de8fa42284d46123e.jpg

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I am mostly offended that someone talked Mr. G into wasting his time on that. There are only so many Garthwaite pistols that will ever be produced. That should not have been one.

[Tokarev]

I am mostly offended that someone talked Mr. G into wasting his time...That should not have been one.

Well, there's no denying the pistol doesn't look as good as it probably did before the mod.

I feel the same about the weld-on beavertail. It really changes the clean svelte lines even no matter how practical the beavertail might be.

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[BigT]

This is probably one of the cleaner rail mods I've seen.

Jim Garthwaite pistol with what I believe was a Dawson rail. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/98938e3801b1da8de8fa42284d46123e.jpg

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If i had to use a BHP It would ideally be one like that. Though lets hope it never comes to that.

[ralph]

I am mostly offended that someone talked Mr. G into wasting his time on that. There are only so many Garthwaite pistols that will ever be produced. That should not have been one.

Very true..However, Mr.G is in business to make money..and while this was probably against his better judgement, it apparently is what the customer wanted, and I'm sure he made it worth his while... This would've been the perfect place to use one of the Turkish clones..

[Tokarev]

If i had to use a BHP It would ideally be one like that. Though lets hope it never comes to that.Not a fan of the old HP?

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[Bigghoss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls9uyaxK0F4

[BigT]

Not a fan of the old HP?

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I shouldn't say this with my Rhodesian heritage and all, but I think its the most overrated gun around. If I say BHP my hand starts bleeding.

[Tokarev]

my hand starts bleeding.

Fortunately that's easy to change, at least partially.

Here's mine with a later pattern hammer installed. Dropped right in with no issues.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180828/b3b35232c4e3e5f8f557b29b856310a8.jpg

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[BigT]

Fortunately that's easy to change, at least partially.

Here's mine with a later pattern hammer installed. Dropped right in with no issues.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180828/b3b35232c4e3e5f8f557b29b856310a8.jpg

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Ive yet to find a hammer that doesn't bite, requires a beavertail with everything Ive tried.

[Tokarev]

Ive yet to find a hammer that doesn't bite, requires a beavertail with everything Ive tried.I've been nipped by the slide on some models. I think it depends on how sharp the bottom edge is and how sharp the safety notch is.

The BHP isn't the only gun that can cut me if I'm not careful. Standard pattern 1911's will cut me as willl pretty much any variant of the Glock.

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[1986s4]

I like the BHP and I've owned a few but never kept them long. They are slender and light for an all steel pistol with good capacity. But a CZ75 SAO does everything else w/o the mag disconnect and a much better grip tang. The CZ is stronger too. I still have the CZ.

[Tokarev]

I like the BHP and I've owned a few but never kept them long. They are slender and light for an all steel pistol with good capacity. But a CZ75 SAO does everything else w/o the mag disconnect and a much better grip tang. The CZ is stronger too. I still have the CZ.

Did the later cast frame MKIII guns have any durability issues? I have one in 40. Shot it for a very brief period in USPSA. I never had any issues with it.



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[1986s4]

Did the later cast frame MKIII guns have any durability issues? I have one in 40. Shot it for a very brief period in USPSA. I never had any issues with it.



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Sir, it is my understanding that the cast frames are the stronger frames and that the slide of the .40 was bulked up to allow the use of .40 S&W. I was told not to use a lot of 9mm +p in a 9mm BHP, they wouldn't stand up to it for very long.

[Tokarev]

Sir, it is my understanding that the cast frames are the stronger frames and that the slide of the .40 was bulked up to allow the use of .40 S&W. I was told not to use a lot of 9mm +p in a 9mm BHP, they wouldn't stand up to it for very long.The 40 slide was thicker and the barrel had an extra locking lug. Additionally, the 40 used a very stiff recoil spring.

I'm aware of the warnings about extended use with +P ammo in the 9mm guns. But was that a holdover from the pre - cast frames? Or was it a legitimate concern with all hi Powers regardless of vintage?

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[1986s4]

The 40 slide was thicker and the barrel had an extra locking lug. Additionally, the 40 used a very stiff recoil spring.

I'm aware of the warnings about extended use with +P ammo in the 9mm guns. But was that a holdover from the pre - cast frames? Or was it a legitimate concern with all hi Powers regardless of vintage?

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*I think* the cast frame was done because of the .40 or at least because it was stronger than the forged frame. Which seems counter intuitive but that's what I read. As far as I know +p is not recommended in any 9mm BHP. The BHP uses a crazy strong mainspring, 32lb I think, to control impact and in my opinion the BHP has a sharper recoil than other lighter pistols which is one reason I stopped shooting mine. Other pistols in my inventory did a better job.

[ralph]

Got to shoot a BHP yesterday at the range, guy had one from WWII, nazi waffenamps on it, it shot to about 11 o clock, while I had the sights on center of target.. For me, felt good in the hand, I could see why they were so popular on both sides during the war..Same guy also let me shoot his G43, and a wonderful 98K, fun day at the range..

[Tokarev]

Got to shoot a BHP...For me, felt good in the hand, I could see why they were so popular on both sides during the war.

Ah, the old guns...

Tiny sights, ring hammer, wood grips. Classic!

I have a Nazi marked gun that I bought years ago. Got it super cheap because somewhere along the way it has been bumper chromed. The chrome is flaking off in a few spots and some of the lines appear to have been buffed out. Or maybe they were never that straight to begin with since the gun is wartime production.

Since it has no real collector value my plan was always to have it tweaked just a tiny bit. Maybe have a 'smith put a S&W adjustable rear and a red ramp front sight on it. Sort of a "restomod" kind of deal to make it look like a gun that would have been worked over in the 1970s.

[ralph]

Ah, the old guns...

Tiny sights, ring hammer, wood grips. Classic!

I have a Nazi marked gun that I bought years ago. Got it super cheap because somewhere along the way it has been bumper chromed. The chrome is flaking off in a few spots and some of the lines appear to have been buffed out. Or maybe they were never that straight to begin with since the gun is wartime production.

Since it has no real collector value my plan was always to have it tweaked just a tiny bit. Maybe have a 'smith put a S&W adjustable rear and a red ramp front sight on it. Sort of a "restomod" kind of deal to make it look like a gun that would have been worked over in the 1970s.

I was kinda suprised when I shot it, the trigger really was'nt bad I loved how it felt, pointed, but I don't know why it was shooting high left..a bit off topic, but the 98K this guy had, shot great, using some steel cased surplus that Aim surplus sold awhile back, it shot poa/poi, I was able to hit some 8-10"dia steel plates at 200yds, offhand, simply by raising the rear sight to the 200M notch, I was hitting them usually 3 out of 5, the bore on this rifle was in excellant shape, bright and shiny, not bad considering it was orginial to the rifle.. A great day at the range, got to shoot a pistol that had some real history behind it, and a rifle (G43) I'll probably never get to shoot again..

[Gary1911A1]

Brownells must of gotten some more of the Stainless Regent Hi-Powers in because I got an Email today mine would be at my Dealer's this Friday.:D I may replace some parts as needed, but it will mostly be for range use so f a part breaks on the range it won't cost me my life. I can see replacing the hammer with a C&S to reduce hammer bite, but that and removing the magazine safety are about all I'll do right away.

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/BfIfGUZgEqY

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[Tokarev]

I put a used MKIII safety in my Regent this afternoon. I haven't test fired it but it passes the "click" test. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180902/d567dd590ad86f65173e68fc38ae1568.jpg

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[Tokarev]

I took the pistol out today to road test the new hammer and safety.

The good news is the hammer and safety seem to work fine. No worries there. The bad news is the gun occasionally fails to extract. Out of about 150 rounds, I had six failures. Something I notice with the factory extractor is it lacks the bevel that allows the extractor to snap over a chambered round. When the gun fails to extract it usually took me a couple tries to get the extractor snapped over the rim and the slide in battery in order to clear the fired case.

Another disappointment is the firing pin retaining plate. It is cracked from the ejector notch to the firing pin hole. I've seen several 1911 firing pin plates crack in the same spot but only after extended use. I did break a factory BHP plate years ago but that, too, was after extended use.

Something to keep an eye on is the impact surface on the face of the recoil spring tunnel. It is showing a little discoloration from coming to a stop against the corresponding flat in the frame. Nothing alarms me yet but I will certainly watch carefully.

I've already taken advantage of Midway's free shipping on orders of $99 or more and have ordered a C&S extractor, a factory Browning firing pin plate and a 20# recoil spring.

More when I have it....

[Tokarev]

Here is some positive news.

I put 225 rounds through the pistol today. A mixture of JHP and ball. No failures of any kind using a mix of Mec-Gar of 13rd and 15rd mags.

The extractor I pulled from my old surplus BHP seems to have done the trick.

[Tokarev]

I just got off the phone with Gursel (spelling?) at LKCI. He says they are aware of the extractor issue and have made a change in the production line to correct the problem. Anyone with a problematic pistol can contact them for a warranty replacement. My new extractor should be in the mail tomorrow or Thursday.

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[Tokarev]

Giving my BR9 a little workout.


https://youtu.be/zOqcyETX7Nw

[Prepper_Pig]

I picked up a black one off gunbroker a couple of months ago.. I've only ran about 120 rounds through mine but everything functioned great. I was extremely impressed with the smoothness of the finish. I only found a couple of tooling marks but they were so minor I forgot about them. Mine shipped with a 13rd and a 15rd magazine. Some places are advertising 2-13rd mags but I don't know if that was what they were shipping with when they first came out or if it depends on where it was purchased from. The only negative I can really see on this Tisas is the lack of sight options but the factory sights are actually really good all in all.

I toyed with the idea of sending it to a 'smith (Garthwaite) for some serious work but in the end it wouldn't be worth it on a cheap clone IMO. Instead I picked up a garthwaite competition trigger and some navidrex grips from Brownells to install. I'll remove the mag safety, slap some skateboard tape on the front and back straps, put a mkIII safety on it (left side only), and finally a 18.5# recoil spring with a 26# hammer spring and call it good. If I get adventurous I might try my hand at beveling the mag well a bit too.

For me, these changes will make it a pretty decent gun to put in the carry rotation I think. YMMV

[Tokarev]

I was extremely impressed with the smoothness of the finish. I only found a couple of tooling marks but they were so minor I forgot about them. Mine shipped with a 13rd and a 15rd magazine. Some places are advertising 2-13rd mags but I don't know if that was what they were shipping with when they first came out or if it depends on where it was purchased from. The only negative I can really see on this Tisas is the lack of sight options but the factory sights are actually really good all in all.

Yes. The guns seem to be surprisingly well finished. My stainless pistol is really cleanly finished inside. Mine also shipped with a 15rd and a 13rd mag.


I toyed with the idea of sending it to a 'smith (Garthwaite) for some serious work but in the end it wouldn't be worth it on a cheap clone IMO.

Will he work on one of these? I know some of the bigger named 'smiths can be particular about what they'll accept into the shop. Once I get to 1,000 rounds fired, I will completely strip the pistol and take a good look at everything. If I see no signs of peening or poor heat treat I might see if The Action Works will do some work on the gun.


For me, these changes will make it a pretty decent gun to put in the carry rotation I think.

I've been carrying mine pretty regularly. It has been 100% reliable with the extractor swap. Feeds ball and JHP without issue.

[Tokarev]

Just gave Mr. Garthwaite a call. He says he's not terribly impressed with these guns and would not recommend using one for a build. I didn't want to waste too much of his time so I didn't ask for specifics.

Novak's also says these are a NO GO from what I've seen posted on another forum.

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[Tokarev]

... mine would be at my Dealer's this Friday.
Gary1911A1

Did you pick up your pistol yet? How does it look? Have you had a chance to shoot it?


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[Gary1911A1]

Gary1911A1

Did you pick up your pistol yet? How does it look? Have you had a chance to shoot it?


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I did pick it up. I didn't get a chance to shoot it when I planned, but I'm going to the range Monday and plan to shoot it then. I field stripped it and it looked nice inside.

[Tokarev]

I did pick it up. I didn't get a chance to shoot it when I planned, but I'm going to the range Monday and plan to shoot it then. I field stripped it and it looked nice inside.Any odd or nasty tool markings? How well do the grips fit?

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[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/m0mmhgflgMI

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[Gary1911A1]

Any odd or nasty tool markings? How well do the grips fit?

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The outer finish was excellent. I did see some minor tool make inside, but nothing any worse than US Manufacturers. 3068030679
I only shot 50 rounds of 124gr. Hardball through it Monday, but there were no malfunctions and it shot POA when I did my part. Being right handed I pulled some shots low and left at 15 yards. Need to work on that.

[Tokarev]

I only shot 50 rounds of 124gr. Hardball through it Monday, but there were no malfunctions and it shot POA when I did my part. Being right handed I pulled some shots low and left at 15 yards. Need to work on that.

Any updates for us? How's the BR-9 working for you?

[Gary1911A1]

Still working well. I almost hate to say this, but if mine is a representation of most of the Regents, it just might be better than my last Browning Hi-Power. Certainly my Regent has a better trigger out of the box.

[Tokarev]

Uh oh!

The importer has already been contacted and has stated that the pistol is covered under warranty and will be replaced. Unfortunately they have no stainless pistols in stock and won't have any for at least a couple of weeks.

Total round count is just a tad over a thousand. Probably right around 1,200.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190320/1b644df51f9409590c993a877d814981.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190320/52d03adccfbd706cae6d13205e3b6526.jpg

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[Alpha Sierra]

Uh oh!

The importer has already been contacted and has stated that the pistol is covered under warranty and will be replaced. Unfortunately they have no stainless pistols in stock and won't have any for at least a couple of weeks.

Total round count is just a tad over a thousand. Probably right around 1,200.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190320/1b644df51f9409590c993a877d814981.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190320/52d03adccfbd706cae6d13205e3b6526.jpg

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Those inside corners should have been radiused. Even a .020" radius at each likely would have prevented that crack from starting.

[JonInWA]

Hmmm...I hope that's a unique aberration due to flaws in that one receiver. It looks like the manufacturer is being stand-up about it, which is excellent.

Never heard of that crack/flaw occurring with any FN-produced High Power previously, though.

Best, Jon

[Alpha Sierra]

Hmmm...I hope that's a unique aberration due to flaws in that one receiver.
I assume that all of these pistols have the same sharp corners inside the trigger well as this one, since it's likely the tooling and process (likely a broach) used to open up that hole is a constant.

Sharp corners are points of stress concentration, so I would expect frame cracks starting from the corners of the trigger well in these pistols at a higher rate than normal.

[Tokarev]

Sharp corners are points of stress concentration, so I would expect frame cracks starting from the corners of the trigger well in these pistols at a higher rate than normal.

Hopefully Tisas has updated production. I guess I'll find out.



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[Alpha Sierra]

Hopefully Tisas has updated production. I guess I'll find out.

Hopefully they have a robust feedback cycle between warranty returns and their design and production processes so that issues like these are documented, analyzed for root cause, and then a design and/or process change implemented to fix the root cause.

[Tokarev]

Hopefully they have a robust feedback cycle between warranty returns and their design and production processes so that issues like these are documented, analyzed for root cause, and then a design and/or process change implemented to fix the root cause.

It sounds like they were quick to identify and fix the issues with the cracking extractors and firing pin stop plates. But those flaws seem to have been immediately apparent. If the cracking frame issue takes awhile to show itself they might not have much yet in the way of feedback.

[willie]

Something went over my head. Why not buy a used Mk111 and customize it? I see them around here.

[JonInWA]

Something went over my head. Why not buy a used Mk111 and customize it? I see them around here.

Because good as a FN-produced High Power is, unless you know the provenance/round count of the one you're buying used, they can be a bit of a crap shoot, as the forecasted barrel lifespan has been estimated to be in the vicinity of 12,000 - 15,000 rounds, and frames around 35,000, give or take.

The High Power is a great pistol, albeit with some caveats. From a durability standpoint, the fact that they have less mass than a 1911 has led to them inevitably having a more limited lifespan, all things being equal.

While these estimates may be based on forged-frame High Powers (the 1994+ cast frames are thorough-hardened and much tougher), I simply don't know of empirically derived results to substantiate that assumption (that the post 1994 cast-frames are more durable than 35,00 rounds; the barrel lifespan of 12,000 - 15,000 I assume remains the same {except, again, the 3-lugged .40 barrels might be more durable, but {again} there's a lack of empirically-derived data).

Hence there might be a willingness to go with a new clone as opposed to a used FN.

It looks like they're still a bit of a work in progress, though.

Best, Jon

[Tokarev]

Something went over my head. Why not buy a used Mk111 and customize it? I see them around here.

Buying an Israeli surplus gun is certainly an option although there's no stainless version there. But hard chrome or NP3 comes to mind for a durable corrosion finish.

[Tokarev]

I need to forward my cracked frame pics to C&S. Not to create bad blood but rather to give them a heads up.

Also, for the record, I want these guns to succeed and am really hoping the TISAS factory can get things worked out with QC and metallurgy. The market needs a source for new (and affordable) Hi Powers.

[JonInWA]

I need to forward my cracked frame pics to C&S. Not to create bad blood but rather to give them a heads up.

Also, for the record, I want these guns to succeed and am really hoping the TISAS factory can get things worked out with QC and metallurgy. The market needs a source for new (and affordable) Hi Powers.

Much agreed.

Best, Jon

[Tokarev]

Here's the latest from LKCI:


I'm sorry that this happened to you. These cracks appeared on only a few guns and the manufacturer couldn't narrow down the problem to certain batch of serial numbers. Obviously it was a bad batch of metallurgy.

We are expecting a shipment on or about the first week of April and we can arrange the replacement as soon as we receive them. Again, sorry for your inconvenience.





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[Alpha Sierra]

These cracks appeared on only a few guns and the manufacturer couldn't narrow down the problem to certain batch of serial numbers. Obviously it was a bad batch of metallurgy.

This is a HUGE red flag

Piss poor (or no) lot control and no acknowledgement that un-radiused corners will forment the propagation of cracks even if the steel is heat treated appropriately for its intended function.

If the manufacturer can't narrow the problem to a certain batch of serial numbers, who (and how) is making the determination that it was a "bad batch of metallurgy"?

And WTH is a "bad batch of metallurgy"? Completely wrong type (low vs high carbon steel) of steel? Wrong alloy (4340 instead of 4140 for ex)? Forgot to heat treat? Missed the tempering step? Tempered but not enough?

In my line of work a supplier like that would get some audits and probably be placed on source inspection until they can prove that they know what they're doing.

[Tokarev]

This is a HUGE red flag

Piss poor (or no) lot control and no acknowledgement that un-radiused corners will forment the propagation of cracks even if the steel is heat treated appropriately for its intended function.

If the manufacturer can't narrow the problem to a certain batch of serial numbers, who (and how) is making the determination that it was a "bad batch of metallurgy"?

And WTH is a "bad batch of metallurgy"? Completely wrong type (low vs high carbon steel) of steel? Wrong alloy (4340 instead of 4140 for ex)? Forgot to heat treat? Missed the tempering step? Tempered but not enough?

In my line of work a supplier like that would get some audits and probably be placed on source inspection until they can prove that they know what they're doing.

No comments on what went wrong with the materials used but I'm not seeing any deformation to the frame rails or any of the wear surfaces. I assume that means the frame is too hard?

Looking at my FEG and a factory FN Hi Power; neither pistol has radiused edges around the trigger slot.

[Alpha Sierra]

No comments on what went wrong with the materials used but I'm not seeing any deformation to the frame rails or any of the wear surfaces. I assume that means the frame is too hard?
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet. It would take a professional metallurgist to actually figure out why it happened. The frame would be destroyed in the process but it's junk anyway.


Looking at my FEG and a factory FN Hi Power; neither pistol has radiused edges around the trigger slot.I'm sure you're correct (I don't have one) but it's still poor design practice.

[feudist]

Any updates to this?

[Tokarev]

Any updates to this?Nothing yet.

I haven't heard from LKCI yet about the availability of a replacement. In the meantime, I shipped the frame to Bill Laughridge so he could take a look at it.

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[Tokarev]

Here's what I just received via email from Mr. Laughridge:


I have closely examined the crack in the frame. It is my opinion that there was a flaw in the casting causing the frame to crack at the flaw. There is a crack running forward inside of the dust cover cut and a discoloration that runs even farther forward. This flaw is something that can be encountered in investment casting. The only way to find an internal flaw is to xray the casting before you machine it. That would add costs to the item that might be too much to add into the price. This is the first flaw in any cast frame that I have encountered. We used to see some inclusions in the Caspian fames that were like little pits. I have never had a Caspian frame crack in the many years I have used them.

I sounds like TISAS is going to replace your Hi Power and that is good customer service. I would personally chalk this up to a random occurrence. Give them the benefit of the doubt and don’t give them a black eye with the publicity. I will let you know if I have proof of another cracked frame. If you report this in the media it will get blown out of proportion and magnified as the story spreads. Publicity on the social media can kill a company with the lies it will generate from those who just want to spread trash about anyone.

I'm glad it appears to be a fluke and not something inherent with TISAS's product. At least it doesn't appear to be the case.

One thing he's certainly right about is the desire of some to trash any product regardless of circumstances. That's why I've kept the photos of the crack to this board only.




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[Alpha Sierra]

Publicity on the social media can kill a company with the lies it will generate from those who just want to spread trash about anyone.
Agree. Two places I can think offhand immediately where this pistol will be trashed mercilessly by the ignorant.

[Tokarev]

No rail for a light. No cut for an RMR. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180818/df39db6edae63c814898a6eaa0bf7c88.jpg

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Just to bump my own thread here with some HP related info:

There is a fellow on another board who says works for FÉG in Hungary. Apparently they are working on a modern variant with a railed frame, suppressor sights and a slide that's cut for an RMR. No word yet on price, availability, etc. In my mind's eye I'm picturing something not unlike the Springfield Operator only not as blocky.

Elite Warrior is currently doing the RMR cut for anyone wishing to get an existing slide cut. He has pictures and pricing info on his Facebook page.

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[Tokarev]

The frame is back from Cylinder and Slide. Now I'm waiting for LKCI to receive the next batch of pistols from Turkey.

Here is another photo of the frame. In the right light the crack can be seen running up through the frame/slide bumper. There do also appear to be some small casting flaws or inclusions in the metal. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190410/56eca8ba687dc76614471fac0e1ea862.jpg

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[Tokarev]

The replacement pistol has been received from LKCI. I haven't shot it yet and may just leave it new in box for awhile.

This particular sample appears nice but it isn't as nice as my original gun. Overall fit seems about the same but my first gun has some nice clean straight lines on the frame. This one seems to be a bit "softer" overall. Almost as if it was left in the vibratory tumbler a little too long. Not that it doesn't seem to be a nice gun it just seems a little different than the original. No big deal.

So how are the BR9s holding up for other owners out there?