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Dan_S
07-20-2018, 09:30 AM
How is the customer service from Griffin? How is the typical quality/quality control from griffin?

Anyone have the Paladin, and care to share their thoughts?



I’m very interested in the Paladin specifically, but, as always, wonder where the company will be in...five years.






Thanks.

Grey
07-20-2018, 09:41 AM
Just an observation as I don't have any product of the companies I am going to mention...

I believe that Griffin gets a lot of shit for "ripping off" designs of folks like Knights.

LittleLebowski
07-20-2018, 11:30 AM
I don't do business with companies that lack integrity. Many others to choose from. Tell us what you are looking for and we will help you make a good choice. Hansohn Brothers

28236

Dan_S
07-20-2018, 05:06 PM
I want:

User serviceability with removable front cap

Versatile mounting system, featuring ability to accept a direct thread adaptors.



What isn’t an issue:

Weight

Cost

Grey
07-20-2018, 05:15 PM
I want:

User serviceability with removable front cap

Versatile mounting system, featuring ability to accept a direct thread adaptors.



What isn’t an issue:

Weight

CostSo many other cans to go with.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Dan_S
07-21-2018, 08:49 AM
Any other recommendations....??

Grey
07-21-2018, 09:48 AM
Any other recommendations....??Id take a look at Q, they talk a lot of shit but they seem to be able to back it up.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Dan_S
07-21-2018, 09:53 AM
-edit-

Grey
07-21-2018, 09:56 AM
They don’t appear to be user-serviceable, and the company doesn’t inspire confidence as to a long-term customer support availability.


That is what I was specifically interested in the Paladin, as the mounting options *and* non-welded core are unique to the market in many ways.I believe its been proven that you dont really need to service centerfire cans.

Q are the guys from AAC and then Sigs silencer line. They arent going anywhere long term.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Dan_S
07-21-2018, 10:09 AM
While I’m sure they’re a great option, it doesn’t check the necessary boxes.


Requirements:

Non-welded, serviceable core.

Removeable thread adapter than can accept various thread-pitch adapters and ideally, a muzzle brake mount.

Hansohn Brothers
07-21-2018, 04:47 PM
What hosts and applications will you be using the silencer on?

Dan_S
07-22-2018, 01:30 AM
Hansohn Brothers


PM sent.

LittleLebowski
07-23-2018, 06:27 AM
I wouldn't want a serviceable rifle can. Looking forward to what Hansohn Brothers recommends.

Dan_S
07-23-2018, 06:46 AM
Why would you not want a tube with ability to have the baffle stack pulled in case of a baffle strike?

Hansohn Brothers
07-23-2018, 08:59 AM
Why would you not want a tube with ability to have the baffle stack pulled in case of a baffle strike?

With the high operating pressures of rifle cartridges, I prefer welded silencers for the strength. As long as the serial number is intact, most manufacturers can repair or replace the baffles as needed.

LittleLebowski
07-23-2018, 11:49 AM
Why would you not want a tube with ability to have the baffle stack pulled in case of a baffle strike?

It's really not a problem that has manifested itself in the real world. Furthermore, most suppressor companies will warranty anything once.

nightstalker865
07-23-2018, 07:09 PM
It's really not a problem that has manifested itself in the real world. Furthermore, most suppressor companies will warranty anything once.

Ding ding


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dan_S
07-24-2018, 06:20 AM
I’m not particularly interested in arguing the point, but we’ll have to disagree regarding ‘real world’ practicality. Just because one persons experience doesn’t match another’s, doesn’t mean either is wrong, just a different perspective, use, or need.

Dan_S
07-24-2018, 06:40 AM
With the high operating pressures of rifle cartridges, I prefer welded silencers for the strength. As long as the serial number is intact, most manufacturers can repair or replace the baffles as needed.



There are two issues with this.

One, your use of the word ‘most’. As I don’t know *which* companies are willing to to that length to save a can, I have not been rushing out to buy a welded unit.

Second, they can ‘fix’ stuff....as long as they’re in business. With the general attitude and environment, I have absolutely no confidence that any of these companies will be around...next year, much less ten years from now. While Dead Air and Rugged are particularly impressive, I don’t know that they have enough of a track record for me to buy confidently at this point. Those companies with a track record, are pretty sketchy - AAC, Gemtech, or SIG - for reasons ranging from poor customer service, to simply instability due to buyouts.




Someone with more personal knowledge of the companies could probably assuage their concerns easier, but a grand is a fair chunk of money for me o fork out for a ‘maybe’.

LittleLebowski
07-24-2018, 08:33 AM
There are two issues with this.

One, your use of the word ‘most’. As I don’t know *which* companies are willing to to that length to save a can, I have not been rushing out to buy a welded unit.

Second, they can ‘fix’ stuff....as long as they’re in business. With the general attitude and environment, I have absolutely no confidence that any of these companies will be around...next year, much less ten years from now. While Dead Air and Rugged are particularly impressive, I don’t know that they have enough of a track record for me to buy confidently at this point. Those companies with a track record, are pretty sketchy - AAC, Gemtech, or SIG - for reasons ranging from poor customer service, to simply instability due to buyouts.




Someone with more personal knowledge of the companies could probably assuage their concerns easier, but a grand is a fair chunk of money for me o fork out for a ‘maybe’.

To be blunt, then you should just Form 1 your own can or spend money with Griffin (I won't give a dime to them). Those of us with a bit of experience are giving you the best advice we have, advice that we follow ourselves, and you disagree. Good luck with your decision.

Dan_S
07-24-2018, 08:37 AM
LittleLebowski, no need to be short with me.

I’m open to advice, based on the explanation of my concerns with regard to warranty and service.


As for the concerns you expressed with regard to a serviceable can, I’m not seeing it. You don’t know what experience I have with select-fire/cans, as I’ve never had the need to bring it up. I suspect you’re reading a tone into my words that isn’t there.

Grey
07-24-2018, 08:43 AM
Not sure why you are asking these questions if you have the requisite experience to make an informed decision...

It sounds like you want a Griffin Armament can, get one then. Everyone else is saying they are shady and there really is no need for a can like that. Take or don't take the advice. Move along.

LittleLebowski
07-24-2018, 08:46 AM
OK, AAC is owned by the Cerberus group. Gonna be around a long time. Dead Air is owned by Bergara, good financial backing, prolly gonna be around a long time. SIG has been around a long time, not going anywhere due to their commercial and govt contract success (SIG makes great cans, I own one). Griffin lacks integrity. There's a whole bunch of people (some in this thread) that also own select fire (in this thread, but not me) that have experience with suppressors and select fire. They're not worried about select fire and suppressors. Furthermore, how often are you doing mag dumps with select fire? Eleven years ago, AAC showed that their suppressors can handle select fire just fine (http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10473&sid=c1f2f17431ac9fe7f5e08188afb2a04e) and the state of the industry has moved forward since then.

I don't know a single centerfire rifle can user that worries about cleaning their can. Folks with more knowledge than I say not to worry about it. My advice is to find a 7.62 can from a company you trust, only use brakes (as a sacrificial blast baffle), and check bore alignment with a rod on the rifles you use it on.

Dan_S
07-24-2018, 08:52 AM
Excellent information. Thank you.

LittleLebowski
07-24-2018, 09:01 AM
Again, an older can, they are probably all (if you buy quality) as tough as this M4-2000 nowadays. Note the physical and chemical abuse heaped upon this can and AAC's response was "go ahead and use the dip on the entire can." "The dip" is very much a chemical agent of the last resort and AAC didn't blink.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Lets-talk-about-sealed-rifle-suppressor-cleaning-Update/5-1722007/?page=1

LittleLebowski
07-25-2018, 08:11 AM
The McMaster Carr rod recommended for checking alignment on a .30 can is part number 8893K217
https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/124/3824/=1dv72yx

drjaydvm
07-25-2018, 09:38 AM
I have a griffin alpha (old name for paladin) and i have been very happy with it. I’m waiting on a stamp for a recce 5 and a dead air wolverine. I like the griffin taper mount interface and the many choices with flash hiders, comps, and flash comps. I like that they have multiple suppressors that work with the taper mount, including the Optimus micro 22 can. I use the paladin on a 22 rifle sometimes, I like I can take it apart to clean. My next purchase will be the micro. I don’t give a crap about a companies politics, or if they copied some other company, I just care about the product. Yes I have Troy sights and vertical grips on most of my rifles. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180725/dbaf3949e4833c7a0a1ecbfeb5122ec1.png

drjaydvm
07-25-2018, 05:44 PM
OK, AAC is owned by the Cerberus group. Gonna be around a long time. Dead Air is owned by Bergara, good financial backing, prolly gonna be around a long time. SIG has been around a long time, not going anywhere due to their commercial and govt contract success (SIG makes great cans, I own one). Griffin lacks integrity. There's a whole bunch of people (some in this thread) that also own select fire (in this thread, but not me) that have experience with suppressors and select fire. They're not worried about select fire and suppressors. Furthermore, how often are you doing mag dumps with select fire? Eleven years ago, AAC showed that their suppressors can handle select fire just fine (http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10473&sid=c1f2f17431ac9fe7f5e08188afb2a04e) and the state of the industry has moved forward since then.

I don't know a single centerfire rifle can user that worries about cleaning their can. Folks with more knowledge than I say not to worry about it. My advice is to find a 7.62 can from a company you trust, only use brakes (as a sacrificial blast baffle), and check bore alignment with a rod on the rifles you use it on.

Do you mind elaborating about the Griffin lacking integrity? I pay attention to your posts and respect your opinion, but I'm not sure I've seen this much vitriol directed at Griffin before.

LittleLebowski
07-26-2018, 05:57 AM
Do you mind elaborating about the Griffin lacking integrity? I pay attention to your posts and respect your opinion, but I'm not sure I've seen this much vitriol directed at Griffin before.

First off, they have excellent machining and some good stuff. No hate on your Griffin stuff. It will serve you well.

I'll let the pictures do the talking.

rob_s
07-26-2018, 07:33 AM
I don’t give a crap about a companies politics, or if they copied some other company, I just care about the product.

While i have agreed with that sentiment at times in the past, especially when it comes to things like the Troy PR fiasco, I'm not sure you can just completely ignore the issues, or that you can make the Troy issue a 1:1 with the Griffin issue.

For me, it's as much about company longevity as anything else. That matters more to me when we're talking about something like a can vs. something like a folding sight.

Companies with low integrity tend not to be around long. Couple that with pour decision making ("front toward arabs") and possible copyright infringement or patent issues in the future, and they may be around even less long.

Additionally, sometimes people copy another design and improve it, but far more often they copy a design and make it cheaper. They have to in order to sell it. if it cost the same as the original nobody would buy it. To make it cost less, they have to make it for less. To make it for less, they often have to make it less good.

All of that said, there's "good", and then there's "good enough", and frankly the private-owner suppressor market is about as harsh as the offroad-trucks-that-never-see-mud market, so just like it probably doesn't matter when someone installs a shitty lift kit, it probably doesn't matter if a copy of a design is less good since it probably won't ever get used to breaking.