FN 509 Tactical

[HCM]

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/07/the-new-fn-509-tactical-first-shots-video/#axzz5LfbA4eOI

As it comes out of the box.

28206

Fully equipped with TBRC Micro comp, RMR and X 300U

28207


http://youtu.be/cR1sc98sE8Q

The claim is FN has developed a better method for modular optics mounting which stays tight via rubber O rings rather than Loctite or periodic re-tightening.

[einherjarvalk]

Very neat. I'm frankly once bitten, twice shy on FN handguns, but I remember saying to some friends at one point that the main reason the FNX-45 has a following with casual shooters is because it comes with all the cool guy stuff right out of the box (optics cut, suppressor sights, threaded barrel) whereas most other manufacturers don't offer all of those things together in one SKU, and that not offering a "Tactical" variant in the same vein with the 509 meant a lot of people were just going to ignore it. This will definitely grab people's attention, I think.

I'd really love to see more companies (read: HK) offer this feature set on their "Tactical" models, rather than just one or two of those features. The only other company that does it to my knowledge is S&W with the CORE series, and even that one I didn't know offered a threaded barrel model until I checked just now.

[Lon]

Nice. I heard rumors at the OTOA conference this was coming this summer.

[HCM]

Nice. I heard rumors at the OTOA conference this was coming this summer.

This looks a lot like the descriptions Of FN’s MHS entry.

[pastaslinger]

Is the trigger still as disappointing as it is on the regular 509?

[navyman8903]

Why is the cool thing now to put a comp on a 9mm? This red dot thing is also getting out of hand.

[Trukinjp13]

This is pretty badass. If the mounting system works that will be a big plus. I happen to love all
the options nowadays, being able to comp
And red dot off the showroom floor is nice. If you do not like it. You can take the shit off and run it slick. But if you do, you just took it out of the box and installed a few parts. No milling or tb to buy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HCM]

Why is the cool thing now to put a comp on a 9mm? This red dot thing is also getting out of hand.

The red dot thing is the future whether you like it or not.

[navyman8903]

The red dot thing is the future whether you like it or not.

Future for what? Gaming? Home defense? Range toy? Sure. A lot of people are trying to push them into the military, concealed carry, and police arenas with limited success. They're not the god mode mod people think they are. There's plenty of dudes with lots of rounds down range through multiple dots because their guns kill it, or they run into the stoppages/malfunctions they cause.

Let alone the pounding they'll be taking from basic police and military duty use. Getting in and out of vehicles, rolling around on them and just basic shock. Micro dots were never a serious idea on a rifle, and a pistol will prove the same concept over time. Irons don't get foggy, crack, lose power, or catch on things like that window does. They also don't cause stoppages by pinching an expended round in-between the window and the slide.


Is it popular now? Kinda sure. The future? Definitely not yet. Still in the testing phase at best.

[Grey]

Future for what? Gaming? Home defense? Range toy? Sure. A lot of people are trying to push them into the military, concealed carry, and police arenas with limited success. They're not the god mode mod people think they are. There's plenty of dudes with lots of rounds down range through multiple dots because their guns kill it, or they run into the stoppages/malfunctions they cause.

Let alone the pounding they'll be taking from basic police and military duty use. Getting in and out of vehicles, rolling around on them and just basic shock. Micro dots were never a serious idea on a rifle, and a pistol will prove the same concept over time. Irons don't get foggy, crack, lose power, or catch on things like that window does. They also don't cause stoppages by pinching an expended round in-between the window and the slide.


Is it popular now? Kinda sure. The future? Definitely not yet. Still in the testing phase at best.

Thus the backup iron sights...?

Not sure why you are so poo poo on the dots, its definitely an improvement over irons from a pure sight standpoint and you have irons as backup. The only downside now is the cost of having the MRDS break on you in time/money to get it fixed (if that occurs). There are also plenty of SMEs that have thousands of rounds through multiple dots and haven't killed them. The RMR Gen 2 is pretty much the gold standard right now for a MRDS, the Aimpoint one will be exciting to see how it works out. The real issue with MRDS is that a lot of companies are making them and they aren't built to stand up to the abuse.

[navyman8903]

Thus the backup iron sights...?

Not sure why you are so poo poo on the dots, its definitely an improvement over irons from a pure sight standpoint and you have irons as backup. The only downside now is the cost of having the MRDS break on you in time/money to get it fixed (if that occurs). There are also plenty of SMEs that have thousands of rounds through multiple dots and haven't killed them. The RMR Gen 2 is pretty much the gold standard right now for a MRDS, the Aimpoint one will be exciting to see how it works out. The real issue with MRDS is that a lot of companies are making them and they aren't built to stand up to the abuse.

That's a subjective standpoint.

[Grey]

That's a subjective standpoint.

Okay... and your standpoint isn't?

[BigT]

Its like traveling back in time to when guys started running red dots on their rifles.

[navyman8903]

Its like traveling back in time to when guys started running red dots on their rifles.

Not quite. These are mirco red dots. Which means smaller package, smaller battery, and much less robust.

[HCM]

Future for what? Gaming? Home defense? Range toy? Sure. A lot of people are trying to push them into the military, concealed carry, and police arenas with limited success. They're not the god mode mod people think they are. There's plenty of dudes with lots of rounds down range through multiple dots because their guns kill it, or they run into the stoppages/malfunctions they cause.

Let alone the pounding they'll be taking from basic police and military duty use. Getting in and out of vehicles, rolling around on them and just basic shock. Micro dots were never a serious idea on a rifle, and a pistol will prove the same concept over time. Irons don't get foggy, crack, lose power, or catch on things like that window does. They also don't cause stoppages by pinching an expended round in-between the window and the slide.


Is it popular now? Kinda sure. The future? Definitely not yet. Still in the testing phase at best.


What for ? Duty guns.

The M17/M18 are RDS capable and CBP, the largest LE Agency in North America has included RDS capability. Several major LE Agencies have approved RDS Guns, most recently the Houston PD.

There are more / better MRDS in the pipeline. They will improve and eventually become the standard the same way Tasco pro points and Aimpoint 5000s paved the way and eventually became the third generation M68 CCO of today. At this point it is simply a matter of engineering.

When the military or another large GOV organization puts out a big enough requirement, and they will, you will see the next generation of MRDS.

Re: micro dots on rifles, the Aimpoint micro T2 is the standard RDS for The Army’s Ranger Regiment among others so not sure what you are talking about.

Everything you just said about pistol RDS is what people said about RDS on carbines in the 1990s and we know how that turned out.

[navyman8903]

Okay... and your standpoint isn't?

It is, but I also didn't say "The only problem is...." when there's multiple documented issues easily searchable on youtube or google. Gun gallery near where I'm stationed has a FNP 45T that eats RMR's, it's now on it's 3rd or 4th Trijicon RMR. The "Gold Standard." You can feel free to call them right now and ask.

[navyman8903]

What for ? Duty guns.

The M17/M18 are RDS capable and CBP, the largest LE Agency in North America has included RDS capability. Several major LE Agencies have approved RDS Guns, most recently the Houston PD.

There are more / better MRDS in the pipeline. They will improve and eventually become the standard the same way Tasco pro points and Aimpoint 5000s paved the way and eventually became the third generation M68 CCO of today. At this point it is simply a matter of engineering.

When the military or another large GOV organization puts out a big enough requirement, and they will, you will see the next generation of MRDS.

Re: micro dots on rifles, the Aimpoint micro T2 is the standard RDS for The Army’s Ranger Regiment among others so not sure what you are talking about.

Everything you just said about pistol RDS is what people said about RDS on carbines in the 1990s and we know how that turned out.

How many are in the field, how many officers are carrying them? Or is it in the testing phase?

[Grey]

It is, but I also didn't say "The only problem is...." when there's multiple documented issues easily searchable on youtube or google. Gun gallery near where I'm stationed has a FNP 45T that eats RMR's, it's now on it's 3rd or 4th Trijicon RMR. The "Gold Standard." You can feel free to call them right now and ask.Multiple issues for what dot? We all know delta points are gamer dots. We know there are a bunch of dots that arent capable. We know there were battery contact issues for gen 1 RMRs.

We just had a thread on direct milling vs adapter plates for optic mounting. I wouldnt say the FNP 45T is a great case for red dot durability, first its an adapter plate, second its a case of 1.

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[HCM]

It is, but I also didn't say "The only problem is...." when there's multiple documented issues easily searchable on youtube or google. Gun gallery near where I'm stationed has a FNP 45T that eats RMR's, it's now on it's 3rd or 4th Trijicon RMR. The "Gold Standard." You can feel free to call them right now and ask.

45T has lots of issues and is old mount technology. The optic is only half the equation. Mounting MRDS on pistols is an engineering challenge. The reliability of MRDS on pistols has been far better in tight fitting custom milled slides like those done by ATEI than in first generation modular optics mounts such as the MOS and CORE systems.

FN thinks they have a better way to do a modular optics mount in the 509 Tactical which addresses these issues. Time will tell but if it works as advertised we have just seen modular optics mounting on pistols go from Gen 1 to Gen 2.

[navyman8903]

Multiple issues for what dot? We all know delta points are gamer dots. We know there are a bunch of dots that arent capable. We know there were battery contact issues for gen 1 RMRs.

We just had a thread on direct milling vs adapter plates for optic mounting. I wouldnt say the FNP 45T is a great case for red dot durability, first its an adapter plate, second its a case of 1.

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If it's a case of one, how are you saying "I wouldn't say the FNP 45T is a great case for red dot durability." ? Also what happens when the government or a PD authorizes a particular brand of dot over the "Gold standard" also if the Trijicon RMR is the gold standard how is the FNP killing it so consistently? You can try to blame the shop but gun gallery has a solid reputation and does solid work. So what's next?

[Grey]

If it's a case of one, how are you saying "I wouldn't say the FNP 45T is a great case for red dot durability." ? Also what happens when the government or a PD authorizes a particular brand of dot over the "Gold standard" also if the Trijicon RMR is the gold standard how is the FNP killing it so consistently? You can try to blame the shop but gun gallery has a solid reputation and does solid work. So what's next?How am i blaming the shop? I never even mentioned them.

Clearly you have an issue with red dots, cool keep being anti red dot. Ill just sit over here enjoying the advancements in technology.

Obviously discussing this isnt going to change your mind so carry on.

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[HCM]

How many are in the field, how many officers are carrying them? Or is it in the testing phase?

Right now ?

Houston PD has approved a list of guns and optics for full duty.

DHS / ICE has approved MOS guns as personally owned duty guns and is finalizing a list of approved optics.

Of course right now is not the future. But right now is where the standards for the future are being set, and the future has an RDS on it, whether it is one that is currently commercially availible or not.

[navyman8903]

45T has lots of issues and is old mount technology. The optic is only half the equation. Mounting MRDS on pistols is an engineering challenge. The reliability of MRDS on pistols has been far better in tight fitting custom milled slides like those done by ATEI than in first generation modular optics mounts such as the MOS and CORE systems.

FN thinks they have a better way to do a modular optics mount in the 509 Tactical which addresses these issues. Time will tell but if it works as advertised we have just seen modular optics mounting on pistols go from Gen 1 to Gen 2.

So while we wait for the future to catch up to prove the concept and finally deliver the overall bomb proof package like an aimpoint T2 on a rifle for instance. Well let's say a Comp M4s to make sure we're getting into most units down range. So when it gets to that point then it can be evaluated properly in my mind. There's more excuses and people trying to sell the dot concept. But I see a bunch of dudes out there running these pimped out rigs with no idea how to do it. Running light ass 115gr rounds with their compensated RDS pistols having all sorts of issues and can't figure out the added mass/reduced power of a delayed BLOW BACK operated weapon isn't a method for success. Plus all of the inherent issues associated with a pistol with a mounted RDS people like to overlook some of these issues to justify their project gun.

I don't care if you use it, I don't care if you carry it, and I couldn't care less if all your guns are outfitted like that. But "Pistols with RDS's are entering the tactical world" like TREX arms got laughed off discussion forums for and "They're the future" are bold statements. They're in the testing phase and the jury is out on their effectiveness. Especially on the Military and LE side of the house. I'm looking forward to hearing the feedback from officers on the ground after they've been implemented for a few years. If this trend lasts this long.

This isn't the first time people have been running dots on handguns, and they were abandoned until the tech improved. We'll see if they stick around this time.

[Trukinjp13]

Aimpoint jumping into the game is huge as far as I am concerned. Aimpoint knows that their is a future in this and they tried to test theirs on a gun that is hard as hell on equipment.

I also agree on the fn45. The thread that was mentioned is a prime example that you can not always blame the optic. This FN 509 style of mounting makes a lot of sense and hopefully will help. Whatever the case, this is just part of evolution. My g19.5 had a pro cut mill for rmr2 by atei and that bitch was solid without screws. No way it was moving once torqued down correctly. You also have to make sure you are using correct length and loctited screws.

This is the future for handguns. Now we have options from companies that are building rds for duty not gaming. It can only improve from here. No one here is saying you can not do work with irons. Just that like a carbine the red dot takes you to another level over irons. If you do not like it that is fine. We are free to feel how we want. But do not shit on it. Have you ever owned a pistol with a direct milled rmr2? Besides a fn45 tacticool what rds on pistol experience do you have? Serious questions, not trying to be a dick.

[HCM]

Multiple issues for what dot? We all know delta points are gamer dots. We know there are a bunch of dots that arent capable. We know there were battery contact issues for gen 1 RMRs.

We just had a thread on direct milling vs adapter plates for optic mounting. I wouldnt say the FNP 45T is a great case for red dot durability, first its an adapter plate, second its a case of 1.

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Actually we don't know that about the DPP. Just because GJM has broken a bunch of them doesn't mean everyone has had the same results with the DPP.
Aarron Cowan and at least one federal agency I'm aware of have had very good results with the DPP. It's worth noting the Army specified the DPP footprint for the MHS.

This does raise some good points. Everyone is focused on the next generation MRDS optic but one of the things we are learning is just how important mounting specs and methods are to MRDS on handguns. Going back to GJM, he has had much better results with the DPP on custom milled slides. Things like battery plates and proper torque spec have proven to make a big difference.

First generation anything usually has issues. The 1st generation modular mounting systems like the MOS and the CORE have not performed as well as good quality custom milling. That is a fact. I have been a critic of FN's handgun efforts but I must admit they are at least trying to push modular MRDS mounting into generation 2 and that is a win for everyone.

[HCM]

So while we wait for the future to catch up to prove the concept and finally deliver the overall bomb proof package like an aimpoint T2 on a rifle for instance. Well let's say a Comp M4s to make sure we're getting into most units down range. So when it gets to that point then it can be evaluated properly in my mind. There's more excuses and people trying to sell the dot concept. But I see a bunch of dudes out there running these pimped out rigs with no idea how to do it. Running light ass 115gr rounds with their compensated RDS pistols having all sorts of issues and can't figure out the added mass/reduced power of a delayed BLOW BACK operated weapon isn't a method for success. Plus all of the inherent issues associated with a pistol with a mounted RDS people like to overlook some of these issues to justify their project gun.

I don't care if you use it, I don't care if you carry it, and I couldn't care less if all your guns are outfitted like that. But "Pistols with RDS's are entering the tactical world" like TREX arms got laughed off discussion forums for and "They're the future" are bold statements. They're in the testing phase and the jury is out on their effectiveness. Especially on the Military and LE side of the house. I'm looking forward to hearing the feedback from officers on the ground after they've been implemented for a few years. If this trend lasts this long.

This isn't the first time people have been running dots on handguns, and they were abandoned until the tech improved. We'll see if they stick around this time.

So from an LE perspective, when was the last time you held someone at gun point. For me it was a few weeks ago when a suspect reached in his pocket when he should not have. I had to look over my iron sights to see he was pulling out a cell phone. Having also had occasion to hold suspects at gun point and evaluate their actions with an RDS carbine, I can state the target focus of the RDS (or any optic really) makes it much quicker and easier to make such assessments while remaining ready to react.

Re MRDS sticking around, 500K M17/18 and 50K CBP duty guns TBD is a good indication they are here to stay.

[Grey]

Actually we don't know that about the DPP. Just because GJM has broken a bunch of them doesn't mean everyone has had the same results with the DPP.
Aarron Cowan and at least one federal agency I'm aware of have had very good results with the DPP. It's worth noting the Army specified the DPP footprint for the MHS.

This does raise some good points. Everyone is focused on the next generation MRDS optic but one of the things we are learning is just how important mounting specs and methods are to MRDS on handguns. Going back to GJM, he has had much better results with the DPP on custom milled slides. Things like battery plates and proper torque spec have proven to make a big difference.

First generation anything usually has issues. The 1st generation modular mounting systems like the MOS and the CORE have not performed as well as good quality custom milling. That is a fact. I have been a critic of FN's handgun efforts but I must admit they are at least trying to push modular MRDS mounting into generation 2 and that is a win for everyone.

Fair enough, though I think if you asked Aaron if he would use a RMR gen 2 vs a DPP, he'd pick a RMR, pure speculation obviously but I believe his carry gun is RMR equipped.

[navyman8903]

So from an LE perspective, when was the last time you held someone at gun point. For me it was a few weeks ago when a suspect reached in his pocket when he should not have. I had to look over my iron sights to see he was pulling out a cell phone. Having also had occasion to hold suspects at gun point and evaluate their actions with an RDS carbine, I can state the target focus of the RDS (or any optic really) makes it much quicker and easier to make such assessments while remaining ready to react.

Re MRDS sticking around, 500K M17/18 and 50K CBP duty guns TBD is a good indication they are here to stay.

I did it much more at my last duty station, I can say I haven't had to yet on the ship. I have pointed my M240 at quite a few surface contacts, but I can't say I've had to point my rifle or pistol at anyone this year. You can't really control that stuff. I can say if you're consistent you can come off and onto your sights as needed. The delay for me always came with where I indexed my weapon. The aimpoint on my rifle helped sure, but I still had to pocket/get my cheek weld on the rifle. I've also been fast on irons from previous training. IT's all about reference points, muscle memory, and how comfortable you are with a particular weapon system.


You're also assuming everyone is getting RDS's on their weapons. You know damn well the average police officer, and grunt. Shit, every MA in my case isn't getting an RDS. You might get lucky to see them in special operations communities and RTTCQB Marines. Maaaaaybe. You also know training someone on a dot with a pistol isn't a fast affair. Weapons fam in general with a novice shooter is difficult. Let alone someone with trigger time going from irons to dots. Some people pick it up faster than others, but there's an understood learning curve.

You're taking a lot of things that are variables for granted. Lots of maybe's and might's for solid yes's.

[pooty]

You're also assuming everyone is getting RDS's on their weapons. You know damn well the average police officer, and grunt. Shit, every MA in my case isn't getting an RDS. You might get lucky to see them in special operations communities and RTTCQB Marines. Maaaaaybe. You also know training someone on a dot with a pistol isn't a fast affair. Weapons fam in general with a novice shooter is difficult. Let alone someone with trigger time going from irons to dots. Some people pick it up faster than others, but there's an understood learning curve.

You're taking a lot of things that are variables for granted. Lots of maybe's and might's for solid yes's.


No this is not true since at least 2005 almost all infantry who went outside the wire had RDS or ACOGs on M16/M4

What learning curve? Shooter looks at the target and puts the red dot on it, like in a video game, doesn't get any easier than that.

[HCM]

You're also assuming everyone is getting RDS's on their weapons. You know damn well the average police officer, and grunt. Shit, every MA in my case isn't getting an RDS. You might get lucky to see them in special operations communities and RTTCQB Marines. Maaaaaybe. You also know training someone on a dot with a pistol isn't a fast affair. Weapons fam in general with a novice shooter is difficult. Let alone someone with trigger time going from irons to dots. Some people pick it up faster than others, but there's an understood learning curve.

You're taking a lot of things that are variables for granted. Lots of maybe's and might's for solid yes's.

RDS on carbines used to only be for special folks - that is no longer the case. While some support troops may still run irons almost all combat arms troops who go outside the wire have optics/RDS. In the LE world, all federal LE I am aware of issue AR / M4 carbines with RDS across the board, FBI, DEA, ICE and CBP/USBP etc have tens of thousands of AR's with RDS and WML. It is simply the current professional standard and has been for the past 10 to 15 years.

RDS on handguns will, eventually be the current professional standard. With carbines it took about 10 years from special people first playing with Aimpoint 3000 and 5000s and Bushnell Holosights to the Army adopting the Aimpoint Comp M as the first M68 CCO in 1997 or 1998. They were pretty much universal with serious users between 5-10 years after that.

In the LE world, you will also get a percentage who will buy their own RDS if authorized. About 1/3 of my people have personally owned, agency approved handguns (POW). We currently have two approved optics ready POW models and await a list of authorized optics.

Teaching anyone to shoot a pistol well is harder and more time consuming that teaching them a long gun. Keep in mind teaching a new shooter to use an RDS is much easier than re-teaching someone who has ingrained iron sight shooting, particularly if they have ingrained it at the unconscious competence level. old dogs new tricks. The RDS learning curve doesn't really apply to new shooters.

From an agency perspective is an RDS helps my struggling shooters and shooters with aging eye qualify the RDS is much cheaper than the man hours for remedial training time.

[Redhat]

I really want the pistol mounted RDS to work at the level of reliability/capability needed and I am always interested in the new developments with same but I don't see (yet) how they're going to equal the carbine mounted set-ups until they can somehow decouple the sight from movement of the slide without a lot of bulk added. Shock absorption may enable it to last longer but I'm not sure that will be the final answer...it'll be interesting to see how the evolution goes.

[GJM]

It is interesting that I broke eight DP Pro optics since fall 2017 on a bunch of Glock MOS and Walther Q5 pistols, and have yet to break one of the four direct milled DP Pro optics I have on two CZ Shadow and two CZ P09 pistols.

[HCM]

It is interesting that I broke eight DP Pro optics since fall 2017 on a bunch of Glock MOS and Walther Q5 pistols, and have yet to break one of the four direct milled DP Pro optics I have on two CZ Shadow and two CZ P09 pistols.

A pistol slide is not a carbine. We are still learning. It certainly seems mounting spec is more important on pistol slides. Sooner or later someone will engineer a better mouse trap. The FN 509 tactical system might be it, or at least a step in the right direction. Time will tell.

[navyman8903]

No this is not true since at least 2005 almost all infantry who went outside the wire had RDS or ACOGs on M16/M4

What learning curve? Shooter looks at the target and puts the red dot on it, like in a video game, doesn't get any easier than that.


RDS on carbines used to only be for special folks - that is no longer the case. While some support troops may still run irons almost all combat arms troops who go outside the wire have optics/RDS. In the LE world, all federal LE I am aware of issue AR / M4 carbines with RDS across the board, FBI, DEA, ICE and CBP/USBP etc have tens of thousands of AR's with RDS and WML. It is simply the current professional standard and has been for the past 10 to 15 years.

RDS on handguns will, eventually be the current professional standard. With carbines it took about 10 years from special people first playing with Aimpoint 3000 and 5000s and Bushnell Holosights to the Army adopting the Aimpoint Comp M as the first M68 CCO in 1997 or 1998. They were pretty much universal with serious users between 5-10 years after that.

In the LE world, you will also get a percentage who will buy their own RDS if authorized. About 1/3 of my people have personally owned, agency approved handguns (POW). We currently have two approved optics ready POW models and await a list of authorized optics.

Teaching anyone to shoot a pistol well is harder and more time consuming that teaching them a long gun. Keep in mind teaching a new shooter to use an RDS is much easier than re-teaching someone who has ingrained iron sight shooting, particularly if they have ingrained it at the unconscious competence level. old dogs new tricks. The RDS learning curve doesn't really apply to new shooters.

From an agency perspective is an RDS helps my struggling shooters and shooters with aging eye qualify the RDS is much cheaper than the man hours for remedial training time.

So both of you understand, I was responding to HCM's comment about the M17's and M18's having an RDS or RMR mounted on the pistols. That will not be the case for the standard issue side arm for anyone who isn't special forces.

I'm not talking about rifles, or rifles down range.


Also HCM no, RDS's on pistols won't be the professional standard for about 20 years if it does happen at all. WILL is a very strong operative word bud.

[john c]

Also HCM no, RDS's on pistols won't be the professional standard for about 20 years if it does happen at all. WILL is a very strong operative word bud.

I disagree completely. I think we're on the cusp of the industry solving the engineering problem of making an optic that will work. There is a LOT of work being done in this space. Once the reliability crosses the "threshold", then there will be wholesale adoption. Once widespread adoption happens, prices will fall in half, for an optic that's twice as good as the current crop. At that point, every cop will have an optic on their pistol, either issued or private purchase.

The key reason for this has been mentioned: it's so much easier to train a new shooter to shoot on a optic equipped pistol. This saves money in training time, and down the road post shooting in the courtroom. What agency wants to admit to not equipping an officer with a device that increases hit probability by 50% or more? That's just adding zeros to the eventual settlement.

And I think this is going to happen almost as fast as iPhone adoption.

Granted, I know you're coming from a military perspective, and what you're saying may well be true. Pistols are one of the least lethal weapons in the arsenal, and are therefore an afterthought. There's little compelling reason to give a red dot to a tank or air crewman. But on the LE side, it's going to happen quickly.

[BigT]

How did carbine optics become the standard? By guys using every generation and finding the issues so the next gen was better. Not by saying the tech wasn't mature and shouldn't be used. I recall reading exactly the same sentiment about how we would never see optical sights on hard use carbines and rifles as they weren't robust enough. Fortunately people ignored that and kept learning the lessons and hence we find our selves were we are today.

Pistol optics are doing the same thing , and lets not pretend they just collapse if you look at them funny , nor that iron sights are imperious to damage. I agree with the sentiment that in the next 10 years or so that optics on pistols will be the norm amongst serious users.

[Trukinjp13]

Hopefully FN smoothed up the ambi release and maybe fixed the trigger. Because the ones I have felt and at my buddies shop the mag release is very hit or miss. I love the look of the gun though.

New mounting platform (hopefully works)
Coloring is cool
24 rnd mag is nice
Legitimate suppressor sights
Threaded barrel



Now as far as rds. The rmr 2 seems to work pretty damn good. Esp. When mounted correctly. Would you put your t2 in a shitty mount?

BREAK IT TIL YOU FIX IT. Someone is going to fix it but we need leo/mil/civvie to put these bitches through some hard use to figure out how to keep em alive. I know a few county cops and a couple state troopers who would love for the pistol rds to work. Esp. considering we went Glock for state police and local leo runs Glock as well.

I think one thing is skipped over quite often. Mil may use pistol as backup. But leo/civvie pistol is primary. It is what we carry all the time. It goes everywhere. Whether I am walking the dogs or going to the store. My rifle at the end of the day is secondary. Same as with leo, they are not writing a ticket with a m4 on their back. They are not going into wal mart for a shop lifter with a shotgun. Long gun is when shit goes sideways or we know danger is coming. So yeah, the pistol rds is a damn fine tool in the toolbox. Hopefully we can get more Snapon than Harbor Freight.

[Redhat]

It is interesting that I broke eight DP Pro optics since fall 2017 on a bunch of Glock MOS and Walther Q5 pistols, and have yet to break one of the four direct milled DP Pro optics I have on two CZ Shadow and two CZ P09 pistols.

So what do you suspect is the difference between what's going on between the Glock / Walther combo vs the CZ 's?

[Craig@SSD]

Trukinjp13 Thank you for getting this back on topic.

I really like the 509 in general, so I'm excited to see them expand the line. Our 509 Tactical's should hopefully be here before the month's end.

[RAM Engineer]

Less debating over the RDS on handguns as a concept and more details on the subject pistol, please.

[HCM]

I disagree completely. I think we're on the cusp of the industry solving the engineering problem of making an optic that will work. There is a LOT of work being done in this space. Once the reliability crosses the "threshold", then there will be wholesale adoption. Once widespread adoption happens, prices will fall in half, for an optic that's twice as good as the current crop. At that point, every cop will have an optic on their pistol, either issued or private purchase.

The key reason for this has been mentioned: it's so much easier to train a new shooter to shoot on a optic equipped pistol. This saves money in training time, and down the road post shooting in the courtroom. What agency wants to admit to not equipping an officer with a device that increases hit probability by 50% or more? That's just adding zeros to the eventual settlement.

And I think this is going to happen almost as fast as iPhone adoption.

Granted, I know you're coming from a military perspective, and what you're saying may well be true. Pistols are one of the least lethal weapons in the arsenal, and are therefore an afterthought. There's little compelling reason to give a red dot to a tank or air crewman. But on the LE side, it's going to happen quickly.

Blatantly stolen from Ash Hess:

28232

[mongooseman]

A pistol slide is not a carbine. We are still learning. It certainly seems mounting spec is more important on pistol slides. Sooner or later someone will engineer a better mouse trap. The FN 509 tactical system might be it, or at least a step in the right direction. Time will tell.


I ran a Suarez pistol slide and Doctor Optic on a Gen3 G17 on duty. Purchased the slide/barrel and a holster and used it for about a year. With a Gen4/5 grip I would probably still be running that set up. Phenomenal accuracy with that thing during deliberate fire.

Great system for my 50+ eyes and that bobbing red dot made me make some minor grip adjustments that resulted in me being a much better shooter.

I honestly have wondered why someone isn't exploring a mount/holster combo that would favor concealed carry. Skin that cat a different way.

[RAM Engineer]

Here's some things I'd like to know:

1. What is the thread pitch of the barrel? I'm HOPING for 13.5x1 LH, but I'm not holding my breath.
2. Details on how the new optic mounting system works.
3. Will the improved controls trickle down to the standard 509?
4. Will we ever see the 509 improvements in a compact variant, and a deletion of the FNS line of guns?

[HCM]

Here's some things I'd like to know:

1. What is the thread pitch of the barrel? I'm HOPING for 13.5x1 LH, but I'm not holding my breath.
2. Details on how the new optic mounting system works.
3. Will the improved controls trickle down to the standard 509?
4. Will we ever see the 509 improvements in a compact variant, and a deletion of the FNS line of guns?

Details on the mounting system are covered in the article and video I posted in the OP.

I don't recall mention of the thread pitch but in the video, the reviewer mounted a TBRC comp don't know if they come in more than one thread pitch

[RAM Engineer]

Details on the mounting system are covered in the article and video I posted in the OP.

I don't recall mention of the thread pitch but in the video, the reviewer mounted a TBRC comp don't know if they come in more than one thread pitch

Rewatching the video, it seems the threads are NOT left handed.

Still not grasping the advantage of this vs a normal MOS method for optics. I feel dumb.

[WOLFIE]

Rewatching the video, it seems the threads are NOT left handed.

Still not grasping the advantage of this vs a normal MOS method for optics. I feel dumb.

The mounting screws go through the optic directly to the slide. When tighting the screws, you are compressing a piece of rubber: this should keep the screws from loosing. I hope it protects the optic from recoil forces. When using the MOS systen, you screw the optic to a plate and the playe to the slide. This means more screws and more importantly-a less secure / less tight fit. The tighter the optic fits, the less jarring the optic receives.

[TomV]

Rewatching the video, it seems the threads are NOT left handed.

Still not grasping the advantage of this vs a normal MOS method for optics. I feel dumb.

Afternoon Gents,

I'm super slammed right now but hopefully this will explain the gun a little better. I probably won't be able to follow this thread for a bit so I'll be as thorough as possible:

If you visit the product page you can find some of this information. https://fnamerica.com/products/fn-509-series/fn-509-tactical/

1. Threads 1/2" x 28 RH
3. New slide stops and mag catches (Standard, Oversized, Left Hand, Right Hand) are reverse compatible with 509 and will be sold as parts eventually
4. You know I cannot comment about the future but I can say the FN 509 series of pistols will be our flagship striker platform

2. Optics:

FN started the factory optics pistol thing about a decade ago with the FNP-45 Tactical when we launched the optic 'plate' system that pretty much everyone uses today. Probably should have patented that one...

One issue with certain plate systems is you have an extra set of screws which you cannot tighten when you have an optic mounted. In order to check these screws as some manufacturer's recommend you have to un-mount your optic and re-zero when finished. Another problem is you screw your optic into a thin plate where you arguably don't have much thread engagement. In order to get around this some people just use crazy thread-locker but this is still not ideal. Other manufacturers have you screw through their plate and into the slide but the issue here is you have all this extra mass potentially slamming back and forth every slide cycle. These are some of the areas that we tried to address with the new system (Patent Pending :) ).

The new Low Profile Optics Mounting System gives you most everything you get from milling for direct mounting your optic but without locking yourself into one optic system
- The system uses custom self locking fine pitch thread Torx screws to eliminate the need for thread-locker
- The front MRD Plate incorporates recoil/alignment bosses and is supported by an o-ring
- All the optics mount with one set of screws directly into the slide, where the user can easily confirm torque if they so desire
- The MRD 'Riser' Insert, which is really only needed to raise certain optics for better co-witness with the suppressor height sights, is polymer to reduce cycling weight
- The RMR Insert covers the gasket on the bottom of an RMR to seal the optic eliminating the need for a sealing plate (many are exposed)
- You can use the suppressor height irons through the Leupold DeltaPoint Pro which is pretty much the tallest optic thanks to the low direct mount height

Hopefully that helps with the "Why". If you have more questions it might be a bit before I get back to you guys but I'll try to stop in when I get a chance.

Tom

[GJM]

Very pleased to see the BUIS work with a DP Pro.

Are these shipping now?

[WOLFIE]

Are these shipping now?

I second that question

[cjb1911]

Are these shipping now?

I second that question

Grab a gun has them for 880$ ish

[Trukinjp13]

Grab a gun has them for 880$ ish

Damn. That is a little steep in todays market. I am really interested in this mounting system though. Since ya know...acro is coming

[cjb1911]

Looks like it's priced like the fnx45 tact

[MGW]

I’m not interested in threaded barrels but I am interested in optics ready pistols and the 509 in general. I’m constantly looking for something that has the upside of owning Glocks without being a Glock. It’s probably time I give the 509 a chance and see what it’s all about.

[Polecat]

Where are the compacts/sub and the single stack a good while back? Also, any safety versions yet, I saw one in photo, but none at the shops.

[pew_pew]

I handled one today. It’s meh. Not exciting to me at all really. Guess I’m in the Glock everything or if you really want to be different M&P gang.

[einherjarvalk]

I shot one yesterday - actually the one in the OP pics, I'm pretty sure.

I can't say I'm very impressed, unfortunately. The trigger is what got to me - compared to Glocks, M&Ps, VPs, etc., the trigger itself felt very stiff and heavy. The break was clean, but it felt like it took a fair amount more force than I'm used to applying with striker guns to actually get through it. Additionally, the reset has almost no tactile feedback whatsoever. It has an audible reset, but that doesn't do much for me. An Apexed 509 was also on the line, which felt a bit better, but still not quite what I was expecting. There was also one failure I observed where a round didn't eject (the slide failed to go all the way back and instead got "stuck" with the casing still in the extractor but not quite far enough to hit the ejector), but I think this may have been caused by the compensator as I'm not sure if the sample that was being used had the reduced power recoil spring installed.

I'm sure it's going to be just fine for a lot of people, especially those wanting a Fauxland-like base gun right out of the box, but the trigger keeps me from being one of them.

[pastaslinger]

I shot one yesterday - actually the one in the OP pics, I'm pretty sure.

I can't say I'm very impressed, unfortunately. The trigger is what got to me - compared to Glocks, M&Ps, VPs, etc., the trigger itself felt very stiff and heavy. The break was clean, but it felt like it took a fair amount more force than I'm used to applying with striker guns to actually get through it. Additionally, the reset has almost no tactile feedback whatsoever. It has an audible reset, but that doesn't do much for me. An Apexed 509 was also on the line, which felt a bit better, but still not quite what I was expecting. There was also one failure I observed where a round didn't eject (the slide failed to go all the way back and instead got "stuck" with the casing still in the extractor but not quite far enough to hit the ejector), but I think this may have been caused by the compensator as I'm not sure if the sample that was being used had the reduced power recoil spring installed.

I'm sure it's going to be just fine for a lot of people, especially those wanting a Fauxland-like base gun right out of the box, but the trigger keeps me from being one of them.

The trigger is also what kills the 509 (and other FNS guns) for me. I like it for the most part otherwise.

[BenM2Tac]

I've heard multiple reports of the trigger sucking on this gun, should not have to buy a $150 dollar apex for a thousand dollar gun.

[pew_pew]

I've heard multiple reports of the trigger sucking on this gun, should not have to buy a $150 dollar apex for a thousand dollar gun.

It’s awful. Heavy like 7-8lbs with creep.

[Polecat]

I’ve had two so far, got rid of both. One trigger was ok, the other flat sucked. The gun shoots flat when shot fast like on a bill drill, easy to keep on target. I like the longer grip 19 slide size. My other complaint was the difficult mag release. I am sure some are fine.

Hope they keep working to improve them. Would love to see other sizes.

[BenM2Tac]

I'll take Q4 Tac, better buy at $650.

[RAM Engineer]

We’ve raised a generation of trigger snobs...

[Sigfan26]

I've heard multiple reports of the trigger sucking on this gun, should not have to buy a $150 dollar apex for a thousand dollar gun.


It’s awful. Heavy like 7-8lbs with creep.

Wondering if, maybe, the firing pin safety spring was carried over from the previous models (since the FPS channel is shortened, the same spring would bind).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sigfan26]

We’ve raised a generation of trigger snobs...

We truly have. However, the $1k model of a pistol shouldn’t have a shittier trigger than the $600 model.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pastaslinger]

We’ve raised a generation of trigger snobs...

This isn't being snobbish, it has a worse trigger than any other new production striker fired gun that I can think of. Being snobbish is saying Glocks are useless because of the trigger. I consider the Glock trigger as a standard, and this is well below that which is a shame because they otherwise seem like nice guns.

Like was said, I'd rather take a PPQ Q4 tac or alternatively an MOS Glock, or other similar competitor.

[einherjarvalk]

This isn't being snobbish, it has a worse trigger than any other new production striker fired gun that I can think of. Being snobbish is saying Glocks are useless because of the trigger. I consider the Glock trigger as a standard, and this is well below that which is a shame because they otherwise seem like nice guns.

Like was said, I'd rather take a PPQ Q4 tac or alternatively an MOS Glock, or other similar competitor.

This is basically my take as well. I found myself back at the range with a friend of mine who largely shoots Glocks (Gen 3 and Gen 4) with some minor tweaks like connector/trigger bar polishing or a Ghost connector at most. I had him handle a 509 in the pro shop to get his opinion of it as well. Upon picking the gun up and dry firing it he found the ergonomics to be great, and the trigger to be adequate. He then did the same to a Canik TP9 and promptly noted that with a gun to compare it to, the 509's trigger definitely felt stiffer and had a less positive reset.

As I said previously, I think this gun is going to be great for a lot of people who just want a "cool guy" handgun with all the cool features and don't shoot enough or have enough handguns to build a frame of reference, but for people who fiddle around with a variety of handguns, it may end up being a harder sell. YMMV.

[Magsz]

A Glock with a 5.5lb connector is a SHIT trigger but its serviceable and the system is reliable.

The 509's, FNS's and their ilk have truly horrible trigger's that have zero redeemable qualities. None.

With gun's like the M&P 2.0's, Walther PPQ's, CZ P10's and a myriad of other striker fired guns coming to market, why does a manufacturer think its ok to release an absolutely garbage trigger, and the 509 has a garbage trigger?

Its long, its gritty, the break is a creep fest that feels like its a mile long until the damn sear is actually released. When there are so many options out there, why would we choose to pick a gun that has an inherently bad trigger that right now, CANNOT be fixed with an aftermarket solution? No matter how awesome this mounting solution is or may be, id rather spend 150 bucks and have a Glock milled.

[RAM Engineer]

Sevigny didn't seem to have any problem with the FNS trigger.

[WOLFIE]

I have a FNS and a 509. The trigger pulls feel the same. I shoot both accuratey; i think i shoot these guns as well as i shoot glock pistols in regard to accuracy. NOW - dry firing is different. There are many differences between a glock trigger pull and the FN striker trigger pull.

I shoot HK LEM pistols, HK DA/SA pistols, Sig SRT trigger systems, and some others. Trigger pull is very important to me. All my Sig pistols have SRT systems because we have that technology. The point i want to make is that the FN 509 trigger works regarding fast shooting and accuracy. It feels like an inferior trigger compared to the VP9 for example when dry firing. I think it is a good trigger even though i will point out what i dislike about the trigger pull when i dry fire the 509.

[WOLFIE]

I have a question about the trigger system regarding Enel's hammer. The 509 stryker seems to move back and down (not simply rotating down) and i was wondering if a dead trigger is possible. I cannot find the Enel's hammer thread.

I plan on buying one in September because there may or may not be a tax break then for firearms. There was a tax relief regarding hunting equipment in Louisiana last year.

[Doc_Glock]

I have a question about the trigger system regarding Enel's hammer. The 509 stryker seems to move back and down (not simply rotating down) and i was wondering if a dead trigger is possible. I cannot find the Enel's hammer thread.

I plan on buying one in September because there may or may not be a tax break then for firearms. There was a tax relief regarding hunting equipment in Louisiana last year.

I had several FNSs. I remember being pretty impressed with the engineering. I don’t know if I wacked them before I sold them though.

As I recall, the system was pretty Glock like. Don’t remember if the sear interface was fully supported or not.

Triggers were meh, but barrels were very good and accuracy and reliability high. I liked them but did not feel FN really cared much about the consumer market. After the FN drama thread I got out of them.

[Trukinjp13]

My fns was reliable and accurate. I agree on the dry fire remarks. Mine was terrible
In dry fire but was not bad when shot. But I moved onto the vp9 because it was just flat out a better trigger.

I like the tactical 509, it looks cool and really appreciate them stepping up the mounting system game. But the trigger should have been fixed. Everyone hated the 509 trigger and that has been out for some time now. I think that would really make strides for them in the sales department.

[WOLFIE]

I had several FNSs. I remember being pretty impressed with the engineering. I don’t know if I wacked them before I sold them though.

As I recall, the system was pretty Glock like. Don’t remember if the sear interface was fully supported or not.

Triggers were meh, but barrels were very good and accuracy and reliability high. I liked them but did not feel FN really cared much about the consumer market. After the FN drama thread I got out of them.

Thank you for replying Enel. The FNS drama thread caused me to have concern as well. I have one FNS and one 509. I may sell the FNS because i prefer the 509 although i like the FNS beavertail.

[WOLFIE]

My fns was reliable and accurate. I agree on the dry fire remarks. Mine was terrible
In dry fire but was not bad when shot. But I moved onto the vp9 because it was just flat out a better trigger.

I like the tactical 509, it looks cool and really appreciate them stepping up the mounting system game. But the trigger should have been fixed. Everyone hated the 509 trigger and that has been out for some time now. I think that would really make strides for them in the sales department.

I like the VP9 trigger as well. Both guns (in 9mm) are soft shooting to me. I prefer the 509 grip and the VP9 mag release.

[Sigfan26]

I can't lie, all this talk about the 509 having a "shitty trigger" has me wanting to buy one. I'll be trawling gunbroker looking for a good deal on one. :)

It’s not Sigma bad!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sigfan26]

I've never, to the best of my recollection, handled an original Sigma but the SD9/40 series of guns are probably my favorite SFA guns. I genuinely like their triggers. If the 509 isn't "SD bad" then it's probably not bad enough for my tastes. :)

It’s not. It’s just a Glock with an NY1 that has some grit.


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[SCSU74]

It is interesting that I broke eight DP Pro optics since fall 2017 on a bunch of Glock MOS and Walther Q5 pistols, and have yet to break one of the four direct milled DP Pro optics I have on two CZ Shadow and two CZ P09 pistols.

That's really good to hear! I hadn't checked back here since we last talked and I've been doing my best to kill my DP, only have around 2K through it, but it's been running without any issues. I have it direct mounted on an P320 X-Carry. I did notice the mounting screws walking after about 1.4k with the use of vibra-tite. I just re-torqued, curious if it will be a re-occuring issue.

From a LE perspective the biggest hurdle was consistent weapon presentation. Once I had some reps with the new duty holster I ceased to have issues with finding the dot. The larger window of the DP does hang up a bit on my holster when holstering, but no issues on the draw. I'm using a 6360rds model fwiw. I have noticed shooting moving targets is much easier, as well as shooting anything over 20 yards. I was at rifle re-cert the other week and was hitting steel out to 100 yds with relative ease. I think if officers are given the choice the ones who want them will use them and the ones who don't won't. Pretty much the same as any other piece of gear with LE. There are guys who still use irons and 20 rd metal mags in their rifles..

I will say I prefer the lower profile of the RMR, but the type 2 is unusable for LE as far as I'm concerned. When in auto mode the dot washes out with my WML and Trijicon made the decision to force it into auto every 16 hours. Why? I have no idea..

[einherjarvalk]

Trijicon made the decision to force it into auto every 16 hours. Why? I have no idea..

Now that's a fine detail I haven't noticed. Guess I'm sticking with the Type 1s and saving a hundred bucks or so when I buy my next one.

[SCSU74]

Now that's a fine detail I haven't noticed. Guess I'm sticking with the Type 1s and saving a hundred bucks or so when I buy my next one.

They also bungled the new lock out feature. Instead of locking out the setting you want (which would make sense) it locks it into auto mode. Again.. why??? ha.

The argument is well you only have to set it every 16 hours, which doesn't seem like a big deal. Until you work an OT shift before your 10/12 shift or get stuck on a call and you have to set an alarm to remind you to take out your pistol and re-set your dot. Hopefully you aren't searching a building or in a chase when that alarm goes off... I've gone over the 16 hour mark the last 5 days..

For duty use, type 1 all the way. Use a battlworx plate and you're good to go..

[einherjarvalk]

Good to know. My guns are as far from duty use as they get, but it does give me a valid reason to save an extra $100 or so when equipping a new gun with an RMR.

I've had a Type 1 RM06 on an MOS Glock for a few thousand rounds using a Battleworx plate; while it's made a trip back to the mothership once it had less to do with anything the Type 2 would've solved and everything to do with someone not torqueing the windage screw down properly, which caused it to walk every few hundred rounds. It hasn't given me any more fuss since getting it back in December other than a single case of a mounting screw starting to walk and needing to be re-torqued in the first 100 rounds after reinstallation.

[runcible]

It is interesting that I broke eight DP Pro optics since fall 2017 on a bunch of Glock MOS and Walther Q5 pistols, and have yet to break one of the four direct milled DP Pro optics I have on two CZ Shadow and two CZ P09 pistols.

You'd need an accelerometer attached to the slides of each to verify the hypothesis, but if memory serves hammer-fired systems have a much slower initial slide velocity during first movement after firing - as not only are the barrel and slide still joined as they start moving to the rear and unlocking from each other, but the slide is recocking the hammer (linear motion of the slide working against the arcing motion of the hammer from rest). From this stems a gradual increase in slide velocity until the slide is moving at its fastest after the barrel unlocks and the hammer is cocked fully to the rear; that itself being slower then the equivalent period of travel for a striker-fired system, from all of the energy already bled off against that resistance.

Higher level shooters may occasionally perceive this as a greater degree of whipping sensation immediately after firing and before the slide fully cycles to the rear and then forward again. Most shooters will feel a related pattern of resistance in charging a DA\SA or DAO weapon without having cocked the hammer in advance. The separation of the different sensations\stages-of-recoil does get muddled when the recoil spring is towards the end of its service life, as the slide will be felt to finish its rearward movement much more sharply with a more violent end to the travel to the rear.

Short version: that makes sense!

[Robert Mitchum]

https://youtu.be/tbCPFGjcwso

[Grey]

https://youtu.be/tbCPFGjcwso

Nice informative video. Man Larry looks good!

[pew_pew]

I handled one at a local shop and was unimpressed. Especially with the trigger. It’s bad. But I’m thinking of getting one anyway to play with, especially with the Apex triggers coming out.

[Trukinjp13]

I think for how much these cost, the trigger should be better by far. But, I think the rest of the gun is a pretty slick setup. I would like to have a factory rds pistol that does not need a direct mill to have a reliable dot. And hopefully a 15rnd version will come out. Then you can just switch the top ends out.

A guy can dream right?

[RAM Engineer]

Handled one Wednesday. The mag release was definitely improved over the standard 509.

[tgoldie00]

I picked up a 509 last week, and have 200 rounds through it so far (more will come this weekend). I really like the platform and the feature set. I have not yet mounted an optic (an RMR is showing up today, I have a DeltaPoint on my G19 Gen 4 MOS, but that is going to stay where it is for the time being). The plate system is very forward-thinking - light years ahead of Glock in terms of design and flexibility, and add full co-witness on even the DeltaPoint with the included suppressor-height sights...win/win in my book.

There are a couple of things that aren't perfect of course, and the leading one is the trigger. I am not quite ready to call it garbage, because it is different with the trigger safety configuration. I will definitely call it a bit heavy, but that is not a surprise to me either. Lighter trigger pulls, be they DA or "striker" (if we want to separate those) are typically heavier for military applications...their civilian counterparts are often more refined and lighter pulls...but that is the reality. I will re-evaluate after 800-1000 rounds, however, as I can somewhat fairly assume that some relative lightening and smoothness will come out of use - as has been the case in every striker-fired pistol I have owned. By the time I square that circle, I am sure the Apex kit will be available, and I will be happy to continue to support them as I have in my Glocks.

Lastly, one point of contention I have is actually the magwell (or lack thereof). I have found magazine changes to be a bit awkward relative to other poly pistols/1911s, etc. It does require a bit of practice to nine them up - bordering on fine-motor skill. In a stressful situation, I would like to have 1000s of repetitions - it just isn't quite as easy as most duty style pistols at this price-point...a little beveling would go a LONG way there.

Otherwise....so far so good with the platform! I like the tactile feel and balance....the quality seems to be there...so overall I think this presents a decent value in the market - assuming one values the MHS feature-set.

[Trukinjp13]

I picked up a 509 last week, and have 200 rounds through it so far (more will come this weekend). I really like the platform and the feature set. I have not yet mounted an optic (an RMR is showing up today, I have a DeltaPoint on my G19 Gen 4 MOS, but that is going to stay where it is for the time being). The plate system is very forward-thinking - light years ahead of Glock in terms of design and flexibility, and add full co-witness on even the DeltaPoint with the included suppressor-height sights...win/win in my book.

There are a couple of things that aren't perfect of course, and the leading one is the trigger. I am not quite ready to call it garbage, because it is different with the trigger safety configuration. I will definitely call it a bit heavy, but that is not a surprise to me either. Lighter trigger pulls, be they DA or "striker" (if we want to separate those) are typically heavier for military applications...their civilian counterparts are often more refined and lighter pulls...but that is the reality. I will re-evaluate after 800-1000 rounds, however, as I can somewhat fairly assume that some relative lightening and smoothness will come out of use - as has been the case in every striker-fired pistol I have owned. By the time I square that circle, I am sure the Apex kit will be available, and I will be happy to continue to support them as I have in my Glocks.

Lastly, one point of contention I have is actually the magwell (or lack thereof). I have found magazine changes to be a bit awkward relative to other poly pistols/1911s, etc. It does require a bit of practice to nine them up - bordering on fine-motor skill. In a stressful situation, I would like to have 1000s of repetitions - it just isn't quite as easy as most duty style pistols at this price-point...a little beveling would go a LONG way there.

Otherwise....so far so good with the platform! I like the tactile feel and balance....the quality seems to be there...so overall I think this presents a decent value in the market - assuming one values the MHS feature-set.

How did the controls work? Glad to hear you are liking it. Also, have you shot the base 509 before?

[tgoldie00]

How did the controls work? Glad to hear you are liking it. Also, have you shot the base 509 before?

Controls for slide and magazine release worked fine for me. I am a lefty, and admittedly don't use the slide release much at all on any pistol, but I did work it on the 509 and it was fine. Mag release is truly Ambi, meaning actuating it on either side of the pistol works well, though I typically use my index finger to manipulate the standard release. Both worked in my testing however.

I have read on other forums that some people complain about magazine rattle....and I know I am early into using it, but I didn't notice it personally.

[Trukinjp13]

Controls for slide and magazine release worked fine for me. I am a lefty, and admittedly don't use the slide release much at all on any pistol, but I did work it on the 509 and it was fine. Mag release is truly Ambi, meaning actuating it on either side of the pistol works well, though I typically use my index finger to manipulate the standard release. Both worked in my testing however.

I have read on other forums that some people complain about magazine rattle....and I know I am early into using it, but I didn't notice it personally.

Good deal, thank you. I really want to like this gun. I enjoyed my fns but that trigger was pretty heavy. I also really like the mounting system for rds. If this gun had a Gadget available I would say fuck it and pick one up. That seems to be my biggest hang up with striker guns lately. I have become quite fond of the gadget.

[Trukinjp13]

I could probably make something that would work on the 509, but the fact that the striker spring is behind the striker (filling up the space that a Glock-style gadget would otherwise use) means it would be more complicated (and less beefy) than I would like, so it's not likely to happen. Plus, I'm not convinced I'd sell enough of them to recoup my development and production costs. It's a neat gun. I like the trigger (that every else seems to hate).

Thank you for the response and I understand.

[Mjolnir]

I could probably make something that would work on the 509, but the fact that the striker spring is behind the striker (filling up the space that a Glock-style gadget would otherwise use) means it would be more complicated (and less beefy) than I would like, so it's not likely to happen. Plus, I'm not convinced I'd sell enough of them to recoup my development and production costs. It's a neat gun. I like the trigger (that every else seems to hate).

Get on that P-10C “Gadget” already, will ya?

[emoji56]


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[Grey]

Get on that P-10C “Gadget” already, will ya?

[emoji56]


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SoonTM

[Trukinjp13]

Get on that P-10C “Gadget” already, will ya?

[emoji56]


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I think we need a big ass list of peeps with cash for that to happen. That is what is stopping me from getting mine milled for a rmr2. Hard to spend that cash and permanently customize a gun I will most likely not carry.

[Mjolnir]

I think we need a big ass list of peeps with cash for that to happen. That is what is stopping me from getting mine milled for a rmr2. Hard to spend that cash and permanently customize a gun I will most likely not carry.

I know, right?

I purchased one that was very lightly used.

I have only lightly used it. Most of the time it’s empty and I practice presentations with it. 🤪

My presentations WITH IRONS have improved but I don’t really use the RMR-pistol. I did carry it for a short period.

If you must have it back, brother, let me know.


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[Trukinjp13]

I know, right?

I purchased one that was very lightly used.

I have only lightly used it. Most of the time it’s empty and I practice presentations with it. 🤪

My presentations WITH IRONS have improved but I don’t really use the RMR-pistol. I did carry it for a short period.

If you must have it back, brother, let me know.


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Hmmmmmm.

[deputyG23]

Handled one Wednesday. The mag release was definitely improved over the standard 509.

The mag release on my base 509 drops the mag fine using the right side with my trigger finger. Using my thumb on the left side sometimes causes the mag to stick in the well.
I wonder if the newer mag release would solve the issue.
The trigger pull on mine is getting smoother with 400 rounds fired but the trigger release is still fairly gritty.
FN’s Fredericksburg, VA facility is an hour drive from me. May give them a call soon...

[Guinnessman]

Sorry for the necro, but what is the latest on this? I have a friend who wants one and asked me what I thought. Thanks in advance.

[GJM]

There is a pretty concise list of reasons to get a 509:

1) you love FN products

2) your personality is such you don’t like mainstream products like Glock and S&W

3) you don’t know better

[Trukinjp13]

There is a pretty concise list of reasons to get a 509:

1) you love FN products

2) your personality is such you don’t like mainstream products like Glock and S&W

3) you don’t know better

Disagree on all of the above.

1- not really
2- Had plenty of Glocks, lost interest in m&p s after owning a couple.
3-what even does that mean?

My 509 midsize mrd with a delta point has ran whatever ammo through it I have used. Is the bone stock trigger and after cleaning and lubing besides some initial grit on the pull it breaks better than my stock Glock triggers.

They are very easy to break down and work on.

Made in America

Maybe they will stick with this design?

It shot multiple bullseyes at 25 yards on three separate 5 shot groups. Rang 100 yard steel like nothing. Neither of which I could nor my buddy do with gen 5 Glocks even with us each having trigger work on them and dots.

Ergos are far better and the texturing while ugly works great. Even in the freezing cold and raining.

Triggerguard is glove friendly.

MRD is the best factory plate system.

MRD also comes in compact to full and has a rail on each option. You can also swap slides with whichever model and frame.

Fully ambi

My Tactical has been equally reliable but has no dot, so no I can not shoot it as good. But that is pretty much any pistol with irons vs a dot for me.

They have the best two tone fde look to them [emoji2371]

Yes these are this guys opinions, but I have had a lot of the main brands g19 sized guns. And the middy 509 MRD is by far the best in my hands and has been able to make me look like a better shooter with a stock trigger. I can come up on target faster than most other brands and can transition faster as well. So to me the performance alone makes me happy I gave them a try. What more can I ask for out of a pistol?



Mags are frikin expensive.

Jmck has no quick ship holsters.

You should throw a apex striker in it.

I would argue that most will not try the FN because of the Glock/HK/M&P cool aid drinkers out there. Most FN owners are indeed a little off and do not help promote the pistol.


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[GJM]

Having been ghosted by FN, by way of support for a number of pistols, I hope you have better luck than I did.

[GJM]

Aaron loves them.


https://youtu.be/Pw2xaBMz_qU

[Trukinjp13]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201231/6f631d73186e98b6c9927699e9b7a72f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201231/f444905bd4565946ca1eeb50f9475788.jpg

Flipped the slides around after clean and lube. If I could find some more 17 rnd mags, my life would be better.

Yes, Glock rules all in accessories and mags. No questions asked.


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[GJM]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201231/6f631d73186e98b6c9927699e9b7a72f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201231/f444905bd4565946ca1eeb50f9475788.jpg

Flipped the slides around after clean and lube. If I could find some more 17 rnd mags, my life would be better.

Yes, Glock rules all in accessories and mags. No questions asked.


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Have you experienced the issue with strikers breaking, or replaced your strikers with the Apex one?

[Trukinjp13]

Have you experienced the issue with strikers breaking, or replaced your strikers with the Apex one?

My midsize I installed the apex striker and extractor.

The tactical was a very recent build and supposedly they updated them. I will probably end up installing a apex as well. Big difference in the two.

These guns are easy to completely break down which is a plus. Once again not Glock easy, but nothing is.

These were my midsize vs apex. I am going to take down the side on the tactical and compare the midsize vs tactical strikers and see if I can tell a difference.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201231/27a4e3903c0ec08fc6c72975e91b76b3.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201231/4d2ba9ba6f573b01a1cd1987c26c03be.jpg


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[Trukinjp13]

My buddy had bought some garbage Russian ammo. Rounds were completely out of spec. He kept trying to cycle them through his new 509 tactical. I insisted he stop because they were locked up so hard you had to smash the rmr against a table to free the slide. After ten times he went to federal 115 and gun worked fine.

I went down the next week and we shot a ton of rounds through the FN 509s. We were using 124 grn reloads, 115 grn fed, 147 grn speer and 147 hst. All guns ran perfect. But his had a weak ejection. We broke his gun down after the range trip and found he had broken the ejector off while smashing the slide repeatedly to remove the bullets the week prior.

Two things.

Obviously a broken ejector is bad news. But the violence of beating the shit out of the rmr on a table would cause something to break.

The gun ran perfect, while having a weak ejection. But it ran with a broken ejector, I do not know many guns that could. His was a stock upper. No apex.

Another impressive thing was how well the mrd optic mounting system worked. No loctite, no vibratite. And he did not even torque screws with a torque stick. The rmr never lost zero nor shifted. I thought that was pretty cool.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201231/af082aabe5417e4c9bb517dcf4ddfee6.jpg

I have him my ejector out of my tac so he could get back to carrying. I ordered a new one for mine but need to see if FN will replace it. Idk if they will and can’t blame them if not.

Just trying to be transparent about what I have seen with these pistols.


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[358156hp]

FN went to an uncharacteristic lot of effort with the 509, I think they'll be around for quite a while. For some reason, they have a history of short production runs, and outright discontinuations, but they have stayed the course really well with the 509 and actually worked with the aftermarket accessory manufacturers to make the design more desirable and customizable. I still own an FNS that has yet to miss a day of work because of mechanical issues, but I still bypassed the 509 in favor of a SIG P320, which was yet another can o worms to get exactly what I wanted. However, a 509 would have been cheaper since I had to build the P320 from the ground up.

[HCM]

FN went to an uncharacteristic lot of effort with the 509, I think they'll be around for quite a while. For some reason, they have a history of short production runs, and outright discontinuations, but they have stayed the course really well with the 509 and actually worked with the aftermarket accessory manufacturers to make the design more desirable and customizable. I still own an FNS that has yet to miss a day of work because of mechanical issues, but I still bypassed the 509 in favor of a SIG P320, which was yet another can o worms to get exactly what I wanted. However, a 509 would have been cheaper since I had to build the P320 from the ground up.

FN put in the effort because A) their prior polymer pistols were all crap; and B) they wanted a legit contender for the MHS and other GOV contracts which came up in the same time period.

I heard good things about the FN MHS gun though it did not make the final round which came down to SIG vs Glock. The FN 501, a non public version of the 509 was the only gun other than SIG to pass the last round of US ICE striker fired pistol trials, though SIG got the contract..

I really like the 509 optics mounting system but given my work choices are SIG or Glock getting into another SFA platform is impractical.

The other issue is that while Tom V and his crew did a great designing and producing the 509, FN’s customer /armorer/parts support has been a weak spot for years.

[shane45]

A lot of complaints about this pistol being unable to fire coming out of water. Is that still the case and or does the Apex kit resolve this?

[Trukinjp13]

A lot of complaints about this pistol being unable to fire coming out of water. Is that still the case and or does the Apex kit resolve this?

I have yet to try any underwater excursions I would be interested as well. This was a thing with the vp9 too.


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[WOLFIE]

I like shooting my basic model 509. I am not going to fire any gun while it is submerged in water

[shane45]

The issue isnt firing while submerged. Its trying to fire after being submerged. So say you were working a wet environment like harbor, marine police, game warden etc etc and you were in the scenario where you just fell in water for whatever reason and came out and imediately needed to fire, you may have a dead pistol.

[WOLFIE]

The issue isnt firing while submerged. Its trying to fire after being submerged. So say you were working a wet environment like harbor, marine police, game warden etc etc and you were in the scenario where you just fell in water for whatever reason and came out and imediately needed to fire, you may have a dead pistol.

I should have read your post more carefully Shane. That would be an issue indeed. I would attempt to fire the handgun after it was submerged. If the firing pin channel is completely flooded, firing after being submerged (ignition) may not happen. I am definitely not an expert in this area. I like the VP9 and the 509. I wonder if this issue is potentially problematic for any handgun.

[Trukinjp13]

I should have read your post more carefully Shane. That would be an issue indeed. I would attempt to fire the handgun after it was submerged. If the firing pin channel is completely flooded, firing after being submerged (ignition) may not happen. I am definitely not an expert in this area. I like the VP9 and the 509. I wonder if this issue is potentially problematic for any handgun.

Isnt this why Glock went to maritime cups?

Bet a hammer fired gun does not give a shit lmao.


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[shane45]

Of the tests i watched vids on, the 509 was far and away the worst offender. A glock without m cups had some light primer strikes. An M17 had no failures. A vp9 had none but i have heard of other tests where it did. Of course testors and methods may vary but the common denominator seemed to be the 509 not doing well in anyones test I viewed.

[medmo]

Future for what? Gaming? Home defense? Range toy? Sure. A lot of people are trying to push them into the military, concealed carry, and police arenas with limited success. They're not the god mode mod people think they are. There's plenty of dudes with lots of rounds down range through multiple dots because their guns kill it, or they run into the stoppages/malfunctions they cause.

Let alone the pounding they'll be taking from basic police and military duty use. Getting in and out of vehicles, rolling around on them and just basic shock. Micro dots were never a serious idea on a rifle, and a pistol will prove the same concept over time. Irons don't get foggy, crack, lose power, or catch on things like that window does. They also don't cause stoppages by pinching an expended round in-between the window and the slide.


Is it popular now? Kinda sure. The future? Definitely not yet. Still in the testing phase at best.

Respectfully, what you are saying is almost exactly what a LOT of folks were saying in regards to RDS systems being deployed on rifles about 20 years ago. Status of RDS deployed today on rifles? The technology is moving fast with RDS system’s shrinking size, durability, reduced energy consumption. Prices have dropped and should continue with the increased market competition meeting the market demand increase. I’m pretty sure it is the future.

[DaBigBR]

Isnt this why Glock went to maritime cups?

Bet a hammer fired gun does not give a shit lmao.


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That's presumptuous. If the firing pin is fitted tightly enough to the channel, I could see it hydro-locking just the same.

[Trukinjp13]

That's presumptuous. If the firing pin is fitted tightly enough to the channel, I could see it hydro-locking just the same.

Call it what you want. First off that was sarcastic to a certain degree. Because no one ever talks about their p226 or 92 like the discussions with striker fired guns taking a shit after being in water. And what I believe to be some of the most reliable pistols of all time are also game fired. Different design and lends to being reliable. As long as it’s not some pile of shit.

On a side note to the 509. I wonder if the apex striker would make a difference. The design is completely different and a solid piece instead of hollow. Seems like it would allow a lot less water to rest.


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[Nephrology]

I'm less worried about the striker hydro locking than i am paying close to MSRP (in the current market) for yet another "Oh its a Glock except without the aftermarket or track record."

Yawn, pass.

[GJM]

I got to handle a 509 Tactical and 509 Compact (if that is the 12 round +/- one). Looked attractive but was distinctly underwhelmed by both triggers — least favorable trigger to dollar ratio of 2021!

[Trukinjp13]

100 rounds and a little lube goes along away. We were hitting 100 yards on steel easily with all stock trigger 509s. Everyone of them sucked out of the box. But cleaned up damn well with use. If you break em down and see all the contact points you will get a idea of why they need some rounds through to clean em up.

My middy was drilling 25 yard bullseyes for multiple people. Every one who gave her a try was a impressed. That one has at least 1k through her now though. So it is well broken in [emoji2371].


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[ThisF’NGuy]

Future for what? Gaming? Home defense? Range toy? Sure. A lot of people are trying to push them into the military, concealed carry, and police arenas with limited success. They're not the god mode mod people think they are. There's plenty of dudes with lots of rounds down range through multiple dots because their guns kill it, or they run into the stoppages/malfunctions they cause.

Let alone the pounding they'll be taking from basic police and military duty use. Getting in and out of vehicles, rolling around on them and just basic shock. Micro dots were never a serious idea on a rifle, and a pistol will prove the same concept over time. Irons don't get foggy, crack, lose power, or catch on things like that window does. They also don't cause stoppages by pinching an expended round in-between the window and the slide.


Is it popular now? Kinda sure. The future? Definitely not yet. Still in the testing phase at best.

How’re you feeling now? P365 xmacro, P365 Spectre Comp, P320 Spectre Comp, Hellcat RDP, 509 CC Edge…etc. Those are just the factory comped guns. Any gun released today absolutely has to be cut for dots. So much for it being a phase I guess.