Shotgun Upgrades

[w provence]

I have a basic Remington 870 with an 18 inch cyl bore barrel with a bead for a sight. It’s a 12 ga. I also have the same that I carry on duty.
I know there are gauge guys here like Dagga boy and Sherman House and others who can advise me on what I need to up grade and what I don’t need too?
Thanks for y’alls help. Bill


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[Lon]

21 pages of 870 goodness:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17363-Setting-up-a-870

[Screwball]

My main upgrade for any newer 870 is the follower... and by newer, I mean mid-1990s.

Have two 11-87s for hunting. My slug gun is an early gun, never missed a beat (actually, the follower on that is different from standard followers). The newer gun, which is my field gun, if it gets very cold, the OEM follower will jam in the opening of the magazine tube. Did it like three different times, across two seasons. The last time it happened, I blew into the receiver, by the follower... and that little warmth freed it. Could always dump one in the chamber, but for how difficult it was, I am not ever taking a chance on it again.

All of my Remington shotguns (slug gun excluded) have stainless followers. For my home defense gun (20” 870 Police), it is coated in NP3 Plus, like the rest of the gun. My TAC-14 will follow suite, as well as another one I might be getting at one point.

Shy of that, everything else is personal preference. For stocked guns, I like the Magpul stock. Can adjust LOP, as well as cheek height for whatever you are using for sights. Love their forends, being I can easily toss a light on it. I’m also partial for TacStar side-saddles... even though they aren’t as popular anymore (cards are the rage, but the backing doesn’t stick well on NP3 Plus).

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I have a basic Remington 870 with an 18 inch cyl bore barrel with a bead for a sight. It’s a 12 ga. I also have the same that I carry on duty.
I know there are gauge guys here like Dagga boy and Sherman House and others who can advise me on what I need to up grade and what I don’t need too?
Thanks for y’alls help. Bill


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Thank you for the shout out, William! About all I do is shorten the stock, replace the follower with something hi visibility, and put a Velcro side saddle on the stock, and a two shot side saddle on the receiver. I’m a big fan of the XS DEA sights, and I’m having a set of those put into my duty shotgun, to replace the pedestal bead.


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[David S.]

Take Darryl's class.

I took it with a stock 18" 870. After the my class with him in Fall 2016 I added a big dome safety and a Magpul SGA stock. After my second class with him in Fall 2017, I added a Mesa Tactical side saddle and extended optic rail, red dot and Fab Defense forend w/ Surefire X300U.

I'm very happy with the way I progressed from a stock gun to (my version of) a highly customized gun.

After all that, I'm strongly considering jumping on the 1301 bandwagon. Give that some thought before investing a bunch in aftermarket parts for the 870.

[w provence]

Take Darryl's class.

I took it with a stock 18" 870. After the my class with him in Fall 2016 I added a big dome safety and a Magpul SGA stock. After my second class with him in Fall 2017, I added a Mesa Tactical side saddle and extended optic rail, red dot and Fab Defense forend w/ Surefire X300U.

I'm very happy with the way I progressed from a stock gun to (my version of) a highly customized gun.

After all that, I'm strongly considering jumping on the 1301 bandwagon. Give that some thought before investing a bunch in aftermarket parts for the 870.

That is something I plan on doing. I just went through the 1st responder course.
I’ve been using a shotgun since I was seven and I’m the only one on my Dept who even likes them and wants to carry one. I prefer it over a carbine even.


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[w provence]

Thank you for the shout out, William! About all I do is shorten the stock, replace the follower with something hi visibility, and put a Velcro side saddle on the stock, and a two shot side saddle on the receiver. I’m a big fan of the XS DEA sights, and I’m having a set of those put into my duty shotgun, to replace the pedestal bead.


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Thanks Sherman. I like those sights. I’m not sure I want to sink the money for a duty SG I will eventually have to turn in. My personal one will get a set.
What do you think of the Vang Comp barrel?


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[w provence]

21 pages of 870 goodness:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17363-Setting-up-a-870

Thank you. This might take a while. [emoji3]


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[w provence]

My main upgrade for any newer 870 is the follower... and by newer, I mean mid-1990s.

Have two 11-87s for hunting. My slug gun is an early gun, never missed a beat (actually, the follower on that is different from standard followers). The newer gun, which is my field gun, if it gets very cold, the OEM follower will jam in the opening of the magazine tube. Did it like three different times, across two seasons. The last time it happened, I blew into the receiver, by the follower... and that little warmth freed it. Could always dump one in the chamber, but for how difficult it was, I am not ever taking a chance on it again.

All of my Remington shotguns (slug gun excluded) have stainless followers. For my home defense gun (20” 870 Police), it is coated in NP3 Plus, like the rest of the gun. My TAC-14 will follow suite, as well as another one I might be getting at one point.

Shy of that, everything else is personal preference. For stocked guns, I like the Magpul stock. Can adjust LOP, as well as cheek height for whatever you are using for sights. Love their forends, being I can easily toss a light on it. I’m also partial for TacStar side-saddles... even though they aren’t as popular anymore (cards are the rage, but the backing doesn’t stick well on NP3 Plus).

Thanks. My main squeeze is an 870 I’ve had for over 20 years. It’s my turkey gun, deer gun and HD gun. I usually keep it stoked with turkey #5 through a extra tight turkey choke, in my 23” Vrib barrel. It’s taken everything from turkey, coyotes and bobcats and rabid dogs. But now I plan on getting a good barrel and sights with good buckshot for HD.


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[mtnbkr]

I started off with an 870 Express I purchased new in 2000. After using it for hunting and clay games for a number of years, I converted it to HD purposes. I started off with Magpul furniture, then replaced all of the known troublesome internals (kept the trigger assembly), and installed an 18" bead site barrel. I installed a TacStar side saddle, which is supposed to be junk, but it works for me and even holds the shells upside down without dropping a single one ever. The barrel was replaced with a rifle-sighted barrel after my first class (funny that!). I've left the factory mag tube alone, but did install a new 870 Police spring and SS follower. The only bit I didn't "upgrade" was the trigger spring. I tried the Police version, but didn't like how it felt. The factory one is stiff enough IMO.

Chris

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Thanks Sherman. I like those sights. I’m not sure I want to sink the money for a duty SG I will eventually have to turn in. My personal one will get a set.
What do you think of the Vang Comp barrel?


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Vang Comp barrel mods are awesome. Some guns don’t need them though. As Tom Givens, Darryl, Chief Weems and Tim Chandler have said, “Each shotgun barrel is a unique snowflake!” One of the reasons you should always pattern your self defense shotgun is that some, pattern amazingly with NO BARREL MODIFICATIONS whatsoever! One of my PD bros has an 870 that shoots flite control OO buckshot as well as a Vang Comp modified barrel, but it’s completely stock. So in shotgun terms, his won the, “genetic,” lottery, and I’ve seen some of the aforementioned guys offer him cash money for the gun! So test it out...if it needs work, send it.


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[SeriousStudent]

I have a basic Remington 870 with an 18 inch cyl bore barrel with a bead for a sight. It’s a 12 ga. I also have the same that I carry on duty.
I know there are gauge guys here like Dagga boy and Sherman House and others who can advise me on what I need to up grade and what I don’t need too?
Thanks for y’alls help. Bill


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I have a whole bunch of 870's. Come on over to the house for some BBQ, and I'll let you try them on for size. When you find one you like, borrow it for a couple of weeks and shoot it.

I'll spot you the Federal Flite-Control and Brenneke slugs to run it through it's paces, too.

Then you are welcome to run it this fall in the shotgun class, and see how it holds up for you.

[w provence]

I have a whole bunch of 870's. Come on over to the house for some BBQ, and I'll let you try them on for size. When you find one you like, borrow it for a couple of weeks and shoot it.

I'll spot you the Federal Flite-Control and Brenneke slugs to run it through it's paces, too.

Then you are welcome to run it this fall in the shotgun class, and see how it holds up for you.

Thank you Sir. BBQ and Shotguns. That sounds like a plan. [emoji3]


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[ssb]

One suggestion I have would be a reduced LOP stock. I'm of the opinion that the Magpul SGA is the best thing going (I've used the Mesa Urbino 12.5", the Hogue 12" LOP, a custom Benelli 13" LOP PG stock, and of course the Magpul) for defensive use -- it gives all the benefits of a pistol-grip stock with none of the obtrusiveness inherent to those designs. I found that my thumb was uncomfortably close to my nose on the Hogue stock (risk of getting hit in the face if I don't ride the thumb off to the side) but it was otherwise serviceable.

I have a custom shortened 13" wood field stock for classic build that should be complete whenever Fedex gets around to delivering my Brownell's order. While I have no live fire time behind it yet, it feels like a good length to facilitate a more modern stance.

FWIW, my two shotguns are set up:

1) Remington 870 not-marked-Express Express/HD model. Police internals (lifter spring, hammer spring, firing pin spring, Police extractor properly fitted) w/ Magpul SGA stock, Magpul single-point sling mount, Vang Comp Detachable Side Ammo Carrier (explained below), Vang Comp safety, Vang Comp follower, Surefire DSF-870 forend (second model -- w/ LED upgrade), and a Wilson +1 extension from Dr. House. The barrel is the factory 18" "DEA" barrel with low-profile XS sights. This is my HD long arm and it's been through one shotgun class and will go through another next month. I'm evaluating a Vickers two-point sling at present for class use (keeping 9lbs of gun in your hands and not pointed at anything/anybody all day kind of sucks), though I doubt I'll keep it on when kept at home. I was very impressed with Chief Weems's Blue Force Gear(?) single point I tried out at his course.

2) Remington 870 Police Magnum that I'm waiting on the last of my parts for. Wooden Police forend, wooden field stock cut to 13" LOP, Vang Comp +2 extension, Vang Comp follower, factory 18.5" Police rifle sight barrel. The last of the parts (bbl and extension) are inbound, and this will likely be my PC travel long gun as -- excluding some of the asinine licensing laws in a few states -- it's 50-state legal. Without attempting to start a debate on this point, I do feel the wood/steel tilts things a bit more towards the "Grandpa's old deer gun" end of the public perception spectrum. I also have a soft spot for wood/steel guns.

The Vang DSAC is, in my opinion, the best of both worlds with the detachable side saddle game. I get no bulk/weight when I don't want it and the capability to rapidly add onboard ammunition if I choose to do so, while adding a bit in the durability department. I have had two adhesive velcro side-saddles fail when left on the receiver loaded, and to my knowledge I prepped those about as well as one can do. The Vang doesn't have that problem as it's an aluminum plate which attaches with receiver pins (which apparently have some sort of special sauce to prevent binding of the receiver by over-tightening. The big downside is, of course, cost: it's like $90. The Airidus unit performs a similar role.

[SeriousStudent]

Thank you Sir. BBQ and Shotguns. That sounds like a plan. [emoji3]


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Great minds think alike. :)

[w provence]

One suggestion I have would be a reduced LOP stock. I'm of the opinion that the Magpul SGA is the best thing going (I've used the Mesa Urbino 12.5", the Hogue 12" LOP, a custom Benelli 13" LOP PG stock, and of course the Magpul) for defensive use -- it gives all the benefits of a pistol-grip stock with none of the obtrusiveness inherent to those designs. I found that my thumb was uncomfortably close to my nose on the Hogue stock (risk of getting hit in the face if I don't ride the thumb off to the side) but it was otherwise serviceable.

I have a custom shortened 13" wood field stock for classic build that should be complete whenever Fedex gets around to delivering my Brownell's order. While I have no live fire time behind it yet, it feels like a good length to facilitate a more modern stance.

FWIW, my two shotguns are set up:

1) Remington 870 not-marked-Express Express/HD model. Police internals (lifter spring, hammer spring, firing pin spring, Police extractor properly fitted) w/ Magpul SGA stock, Magpul single-point sling mount, Vang Comp Detachable Side Ammo Carrier (explained below), Vang Comp safety, Vang Comp follower, Surefire DSF-870 forend (second model -- w/ LED upgrade), and a Wilson +1 extension from Dr. House. The barrel is the factory 18" "DEA" barrel with low-profile XS sights. This is my HD long arm and it's been through one shotgun class and will go through another next month. I'm evaluating a Vickers two-point sling at present for class use (keeping 9lbs of gun in your hands and not pointed at anything/anybody all day kind of sucks), though I doubt I'll keep it on when kept at home. I was very impressed with Chief Weems's Blue Force Gear(?) single point I tried out at his course.

2) Remington 870 Police Magnum that I'm waiting on the last of my parts for. Wooden Police forend, wooden field stock cut to 13" LOP, Vang Comp +2 extension, Vang Comp follower, factory 18.5" Police rifle sight barrel. The last of the parts (bbl and extension) are inbound, and this will likely be my PC travel long gun as -- excluding some of the asinine licensing laws in a few states -- it's 50-state legal. Without attempting to start a debate on this point, I do feel the wood/steel tilts things a bit more towards the "Grandpa's old deer gun" end of the public perception spectrum. I also have a soft spot for wood/steel guns.

The Vang DSAC is, in my opinion, the best of both worlds with the detachable side saddle game. I get no bulk/weight when I don't want it and the capability to rapidly add onboard ammunition if I choose to do so, while adding a bit in the durability department. I have had two adhesive velcro side-saddles fail when left on the receiver loaded, and to my knowledge I prepped those about as well as one can do. The Vang doesn't have that problem as it's an aluminum plate which attaches with receiver pins (which apparently have some sort of special sauce to prevent binding of the receiver by over-tightening. The big downside is, of course, cost: it's like $90. The Airidus unit performs a similar role.

I like the way your #1 is set up. Your right about how people think about those old shotguns. I hope they keep thinking that way.


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[willie]

I've used "everybody's" extensions and recommend Vangs 1 shot version. For me it's less clumsy. About extensions, note some of the problems reported here. In an earlier thread, I commented on this issue. I'm not certain that extensions are needed but am not qualified to say too much on the topic. I will assert this fact: best quality mag followers are a great idea. I've had poor luck with synthetic silicone versions regardless of who made them. One thing that I do with a new to me shotgun is use 0000 steel wool and polish the chamber even if it is functioning ok. Poor ammo quality motivates me to do so. Another thing is that I use 0000 to polish the mage tube interior. If you do so, you'll notice that shells side more easily in the tube. I'm a big fan of Federal Flite Control low recoil ammo.

I suggest that you buy a second used but excellent condition 870 of older vintage. You need one in reserve. I wish that I could stop buying them, and I don't need the several that I own. There is no finer shotgun.

[perlslacker]

Gonna piggy-back on this thread to ask: any suggestions for mounting a light on a 870 other than a Magpul or Surefire forend?

I have a po-surp Police Magnum with the po-lice wood furniture on it and I don't want to lose it. I am 100% aware that aesthetics and subjective "feel" shouldn't factor into home defense gear choices but here I am.

[MK11]

Elzetta, although supposedly you can run into problems if you screw it on too tight around the mag tube.

[TCinVA]

Gonna piggy-back on this thread to ask: any suggestions for mounting a light on a 870 other than a Magpul or Surefire forend?

I have a po-surp Police Magnum with the po-lice wood furniture on it and I don't want to lose it. I am 100% aware that aesthetics and subjective "feel" shouldn't factor into home defense gear choices but here I am.

If you eliminate replacing the forend, then you're left with a couple of options:

Streamlight 870 mount:

https://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-STL69906-Strmlght-Shotgun-Rem870/dp/B001G61K74/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531012133&sr=8-1&keywords=870+light+mount

This works reasonably well paired with something like a Viking Tactics offset light mount with a Surefire light. You lose contact with the light when you cycle the action to the rear, but that's not a huge deal.

The other is a clamp style mount. This one works by fitting around the mag tube:

https://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-STL69906-Strmlght-Shotgun-Rem870/dp/B001G61K74/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531012133&sr=8-1&keywords=870+light+mount

The L&M is probably the best of the clamp style mounts. Just use loc-tite on the screws to keep it on.

The advantage of the L&M is that you won't have to check your end cap as often. End caps and some mag tube extensions tend to loosen as the gun is fired and this can be exacerbated somewhat by the Streamlight mount.

[BobM]

I have that Streamlight mount on an 1187 and I do have to have to keep an eye on the mag cap. I have a Mesa Tactical sling/light mount I'm going to put on it when I get around to putting a mag extension on.

[willie]

I have used crush washers to stop cap lossening. I think(?)that Wilson followers are sold with crush washers.

[nalesq]

My beater 870 has a Hogue short stock, which was fine when all I had for sights was an XS Big Dot JB Welded to the pedestal bead. But when I mounted an optic (the Primary Arms micro clone) to the receiver, even using the excellent Aridus mount, which is as low as it gets, I found my cheek weld to be less than perfect, if I wanted the red dot to be centered in the optic when mounting the gun.

Incidentally, the red dot greatly improves the consistency of accuracy at speed of the shotgun. Because of the limited rounds on board, and the devastating terminal effect of each round, I think it’s perhaps even more critical to make every press of the trigger hit the target with the shotgun than with a high capacity handgun or carbine. The red dot makes this goal significantly easier to achieve, and a solid cheek weld that made the dot appear exactly where I wanted it to be with minimal visual clutter was desirable to me.

I therefore added an inexpensive adjustable cheek piece to the stock, and it works great. I know I could’ve just bought a Magpul SGA with the appropriate riser, but this is my beater, so I wanted to spend as little as possible on it while still having the functionality I desired.

The light is also an old school Surefire G2 with a Malkoff drop-in, simply clamped to the barrel.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180708/6d713fc8d06745d0ce1c6e77867d0cb8.jpg


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[TCinVA]

That looks like the Hogue stock...I find them to be just a skosh too short for me so I end up having to work hard to get low enough on the gun to see a bead properly. Rifle style sights don't have that problem as much. The DEA style XS sights, for instance, work well even with that short of a stock.

The Aridus mount is the best thing going in terms of optics on defensive shotguns, though.

[willie]

I have used crush washers to stop cap lossening. I think(?)that Wilson followers are sold with crush washers.

I should have written that Wilson magazine caps--not followers--are sold with crush washers.

[perlslacker]

I should have written that Wilson magazine caps--not followers--are sold with crush washers.

My Wilson magazine extension came with a spring washer to stop the magazine cap from loosening if you don't have a detent.

[Screwball]

Gonna piggy-back on this thread to ask: any suggestions for mounting a light on a 870 other than a Magpul or Surefire forend?

I have a po-surp Police Magnum with the po-lice wood furniture on it and I don't want to lose it. I am 100% aware that aesthetics and subjective "feel" shouldn't factor into home defense gear choices but here I am.

I used that Streamlight mount on my 870 Police after I had it redone in NP3 Plus... as I wanted to keep the wood. Think I might still have it laying around somewhere. I do like wood stocks, and when I built my Ithaca from a donor shotgun (Ducks Unlimited model, which I harvested the stock to put on my father’s... who’s was cracked), I put a Boyd’s set of wood on it.

That being said, when Magpul put out their 870 furniture, I swapped to their forend/stock on my 870. Unsure if I would on the Ithaca... if they offered something, but probably not. I like the thinness of the entire shotgun, including the forend.

My 870 is my home defense shotgun. The Ithaca is a backup (actually set it up for someone who isn’t in the picture anymore). To me, a pistol light in a fixed position off the forend is not a great method of mounting. I’m not a fan of running a support hand that far up, but your hand is moving while the light isn’t.

With the light on the forend, you get a common position for your hand to be in. Whether you have the action open/closed or are running it, your hand is right there, ready to activate the light. Did something similar on my TAC-14, but added Magpul Hand Stop kits (used one base, and the two large hooks from each) to the bottom. Positioned the light so my hand is right at the controls.

Trust me, I’m not trying to talk you out of keeping the wood. Still, I was in a similar boat as you, and while I miss the wood, I feel my 870 Police is set up a lot better in regards to functionality. Just another viewpoint.

And for the wave washers, definitely the way to go. I didn’t use one on my 870 Police, but I also have the extension clamp, so it isn’t really rotating.

[willie]

The 870 red dot user can be nicely served by replacing the original stock with a factory trap stock. These have a higher comb to make these gun shoot higher--a feature found only in trap shotguns. Large numbers of used 870 trap stocks exist from yesteryear when many trap shooters did use pump guns. Not being in demand, these obsolete stocks are not expensive. Owners replace them. Check ebay.

[okie john]

The 870 red dot user can be nicely served by replacing the original stock with a factory trap stock. These have a higher comb to make these gun shoot higher--a feature found only in trap shotguns. Large numbers of used 870 trap stocks exist from yesteryear when many trap shooters did use pump guns. Not being in demand, these obsolete stocks are not expensive. Owners replace them. Check ebay.

Is the trap stock the same as the high-comb stock sold for their pump and semi-auto rifles?


Okie John

[Drang]

... when I mounted an optic (the Primary Arms micro clone) to the receiver...

How is that Primary Arms RDS holding up? How many rounds through the gun with it on, and have you done any high-count classes with it? TIA.

[willie]

I don't know if it's the same, but having handled many shotguns with trap stocks, I think that a trap stock will raise the cheek weld sufficiently to make such an ideal alternative for using a red dot or scope on an 870 or 1100. I may begin looking for one of these among my contacts. If it's cheap, I'll buy it to pass along here on the forum. Such has to be inexpensive to be a good deal. It goes without saying that retail price or anything close to it would be prohibitive. For a friend, I changed out an 1100 trap stock and fore end for a synthetic version. This wood stock is beautiful walnut in perfect condition. The two would be a steal at $100. In my post I refer to deals like this which can be had.

[nalesq]

How is that Primary Arms RDS holding up? How many rounds through the gun with it on, and have you done any high-count classes with it? TIA.

I haven’t done any classes with it yet, but I do love the gauge. So far I’ve put about 400-500 rounds of mostly buck and some slugs (mainly for initial zero at 25m, and to reconfirm zero at the 250-ish round mark) through it, and it seems to be doing fine. I’ll reconfirm zero again once I’m finished with the second 250 round case of buck.

One caveat with this particular Primary Arms Micro in relation to how it interfaces with the Aridus mount: I had to do a little filing of some of the ridges on the bottom of the optic to make it fit properly. I don’t think this is a fault with the Aridus mount, though, because an Aimpoint Micro I already had as well as another PA Micro I bought months earlier fit just fine without issues. So it seems to me that the issue is much more likely to lie with slight inconsistencies in PA Micro manufacturing which perhaps doesn’t matter in the majority of other mounts out there.

I suppose I could have returned the thing, but since this is for my beater, and a shotgun at that, where I’m not going for tiny groups hundreds of meters distant, impatience won out and I just fitted it myself.