Dominant Hand AR Reload

[GRV]

Does anyone have any video or experience with or seen/heard of someone doing an AR reload with their shooting hand? What I'm imagining is the support hand stays on the handguard and keeps the rifle shouldered and pointed downrange, the shooting hand then (in some order, not necessarily this one) leaves the grip, drops the mag, retrieves the new one, seats it, drops the bolt catch or runs the charging handle, and then goes back to the grip.

[Drang]

When I qualified in the Army I tried to maintain a firm grip on the rifle with my support hand and do everything else with my shooting hand. My rationale was that if I had a good steady hold with my support hand and the rifle in the "pocket" off my shoulder the shooting hand could come off the grip and handle reloading, and/or reach over the rifle to release the bolt catch. Thumb manipulates the safety, trigger finger does magazine release.
ETA: Perhaps I should add that we were always firing either prone or foxhole supported.

Wish I could tell you that's why I always qualify Distinguished Expert, but that would be 2 lies...

[jellydonut]

When you insert the mag using the support hand, your thumb is in the ideal position for releasing the bolt catch.

I can't see any reason for this. It's cumbersome, it's slow, it's finicky. Why would you do this?

There's no reason to keep the rifle pointed downrange if it's empty. It serves no purpose pointing downrange when it is empty. You would be better served getting the gun back up and running as fast as possible.

[HCM]

When you insert the mag using the support hand, your thumb is in the ideal position for releasing the bolt catch.

I can't see any reason for this. It's cumbersome, it's slow, it's finicky. Why would you do this?

There's no reason to keep the rifle pointed downrange if it's empty. It serves no purpose pointing downrange when it is empty. You would be better served getting the gun back up and running as fast as possible.

Agreed.

What is the purpose for doing a dominant hand reload ?

We have spent years trying to do as many manipulations as possible with the support hand. I don’t see a purpose for this.

[HCM]

When I qualified in the Army I tried to maintain a firm grip on the rifle with my support hand and do everything else with my shooting hand. My rationale was that if I had a good steady hold with my support hand and the rifle in the "pocket" off my shoulder the shooting hand could come off the grip and handle reloading, and/or reach over the rifle to release the bolt catch. Thumb manipulates the safety, trigger finger does magazine release.
ETA: Perhaps I should add that we were always firing either prone or foxhole supported.

Wish I could tell you that's why I always qualify Distinguished Expert, but that would be 2 lies...

You may have even been taught this, along with SPORTS, and the myth that resting your magazine on the ground would induce malfunctions but all are bad info.

Put it on a timer and you would do it differently.

This kind of thing is why they are changing the Army Rifle qual to include a reload under time pressure.

If anyone is wondering why reloading as quickly and efficiently as possible is desirable please read Paul Gardner’s account of how he was wounded in Iraq:

https://www.swatmag.com/article/al-tarmiyah-firefight-lessons-learned-hard-way/

[Duke]

Leave the charging handle alone for bolt lock reloads regardless of what hand you’re using.

[rcbusmc24]

The Marine Corps used to teach this back in the days of loop slings and hasty sling use on the rifle range qaulification. It made it harder to retrain new privates at ITB to use the support hand when "fighting with a rifle vice target shooting". Its one of the reasons that we got rid of the range officer warrant officer position in the USMC and put Marine Gunners (CWO) in charge of the ranges as well. Too much "gravel belly" had snuck into our qual ranges as all the range officers cared about was divisional matches and going to camp perry...

[txdpd]

If your support gets injured you may need to do a strong hand reload. I dunno, stranger things have happened.

I'm right handed, What I do is grab the new magazine, get it oriented in my hand with a beer can grip, use my thumb to hit the mag release, insert new magazine, reach over and hit the bot release.

[psalms144.1]

As others have stated, when I need to reload my rifle FOR REAL, the last thing I'm worried about is maintaining my shoulder pocket/cheek weld. What I want is 30 more rounds in the rifle RIGHT NOW. That is most efficiently and effectively executed using the support hand - at least for me and darn near every other rifle shooter I've ever seen/met/trained/trained with.

Interesting theorycrafting on reloads, but I wouldn't want to get into that habit...

[HCM]

If your support gets injured you may need to do a strong hand reload. I dunno, stranger things have happened.

What I do is grab the new magazine, get it oriented in my hand with a beer can grip, use my thumb to hit the mag release, insert new magazine, reach over and hit the bot release.

All of that is true, but it’s not what the OP is referring to. He is referring to a training scar from high power rifle competition.

If my support hand is too injured to execute a reload I’m either gonna be cradling the rifle with my support arm or if that is not feasible loading the rifle while hanging on the sling, using my legs or even reloading while it’s laying on the ground, what ever I need to do. What I won’t be doing is maintaining my shoulder pocket and cheek weld.

[Redhat]

Going back when the old LBE (Vietnam era) gear was in use, mag pouches on the web belt were on either side of the body...so...loading with shooting hand might have been needed.

Support hand held the rifle

Shooting released old mag and withdrew and inserted new one.

Shooting hand back on grip

Support hand closed bolt

I would bet you could find some old DoD training vids on Youtube showing how it was done

[txdpd]

All of that is true, but it’s not what the OP is referring to. He is referring to a training scar from high power rifle competition.

If my support hand is too injured to execute a reload I’m either gonna be cradling the rifle with my support arm or if that is not feasible loading the rifle while hanging on the sling, using my legs or even reloading while it’s laying on the ground, what ever I need to do. What I won’t be doing is maintaining my shoulder pocket and cheek weld.

That's what you're referring to, but thanks for the lesson in reading comprehension.

[deputyG23]

I was in the courthouse this AM and saw one of our county police officers with an AR magazine pouch directly behind his holstered Glock which, to me, would indicate a strong hand reload. Is this a new trend? My agency does not issue nor authorize any rifled long arms so I have minimal first hand knowledge of what is current in the LE AR world...

[Talionis]

It's possible, but much more likely that that officer is cross dominant, and shoots rifle from the "weak" side.

[Redhat]

I was in the courthouse this AM and saw one of our county police officers with an AR magazine pouch directly behind his holstered Glock which, to me, would indicate a strong hand reload. Is this a new trend? My agency does not issue nor authorize any rifled long arms so I have minimal first hand knowledge of what is current in the LE AR world...

Sounds to me like somebody who hasn't thought things through or done any testing with his set-up...unless he was just out of space on his gear.

[deputyG23]

It's possible, but much more likely that that officer is cross dominant, and shoots rifle from the "weak" side.

Thanks. Didn’t think of that. My nephew, who is the Sheriff in a rural VA county, shoots pistol left handed and long guns right handed.
The officer’s magazine was situated for a “beer can” grip with the strong hand.

[GJM]

I watched a new PCC shooter load strong hand a month ago at a match, and it was ugly.

[holmes168]

Here is my thought- based on a lot of thinking back to my infantry days.
First scenario is in the woods and engaged in a combat scenario. You are trained to lay in the prone and take cover behind an object- pretty much trees wide enough to protect your torso. Your strongside is slightly out of cover as you point your rifle at the enemy and engage. We trained to slightly roll (for lack of a better term) onto your weak hand side- so if I am in the prone and a right handed shooter, my body during a reload is now on its left side and fully behind cover. Our ammo, which was attached to LBE, would have been near our belt buckle area on our waist. You reach in the ammo pouch with your shooting hand, pull out a magazine and put it in the rifle, hit the release, bolt goes forward, you roll back into the full prone position and continue to engage the enemy.

In order to load your weapon in this type of scenario with your shooting hand- you would be in the prone behind cover, roll onto your strongside, which exposes you to incoming rounds from the enemy.

Second scenario in urban areas- plenty of experience from Iraq bearing this out. You get behind cover and do your mag swap. In urban areas- there is plenty of time to get this accomplished safely in a building or behind a vehicle. Also remember- this isn't a one man fight when in the military (referring back to the OP) but you have a squad, platoon, company, etc providing rounds down range while you do your reload. Typically- you have at least one buddy- you yell out reloading and he ensures to put rounds down range while you are firing.

Also- to me (and maybe only to me) your non-shooting hand is grasping the handguards of the AR/M4, while your shooting hand is on the pistol grip. I personally have a more secure grasp of my weapon (and again IMO much nearer the center of gravity) with my non-shooting hand on the handguards, than I do if I am holding onto the rifle by the pistol grip.

I feel bad for the wounded Marine in the article- but based on my combat experience- he wasn't wounded because of a slow reload. He was wounded because instead of getting behind cover- he got behind concealment. Bullets go thru concealment.

Anyway- just my two cents based off 8 years in the infantry. Which 10 years later after I got out- that and 3 bucks gets me a small Starbucks black coffee.

Edit- I reread the OP's comments- I get that he wasn't necessarily talking military usage after re-reading. However- I did want to provide an example of reloading with the shooting hand and the reasoning behind it. I have done this thousands of time- I was actually blown away when I read people didn't use their strong hand. In GJM example- a PCC- I can definitely see a difference between a PCC and an AR.

[Talionis]

Thanks. Didn’t think of that. My nephew, who is the Sheriff in a rural VA county, shoots pistol left handed and long guns right handed.
The officer’s magazine was situated for a “beer can” grip with the strong hand.

It's something normal people don't have to think about. I grew up shooting rifles left handed and pistols right handed, even though I'm completely ambidextrous with a rifle these days as shown by the timer. I have at least one belt setup that looks just like what you described on that officer, except I have a mag on the opposite side too, which really confuses people.

[ViniVidivici]

I was taught that "old way" in the old days.

I don't do it that way anymore. It's called evolving.

Ample testing and usage shows that the fastest method is to bring the gun in close and use the support hand to reload. It's also why most of us don't carry our ammo in those shitty pouches anymore.

[Erick Gelhaus]

As RBUSMC wrote, with the use of the hasty sling as a shooting support, it is what was taught for many, many years. It was well entrenched before the summer of 1983 - that much I know. If one is in a supported position, slung up dealing with targets / threats at distance - the Army qual then was 50M to 300M and there was NO (very little if any) short range work in the general purpose forces - it wasn't counter-intuitive.

It is not a good choice in close and it doesn't mirror how we handle pistols - both of which argue against it as an "A" answer. I also wouldn't completely rule it out if I was across a major terrain feature (valley) and using a sling for support (something that seems to be a lost skill, or at least an unknown one).

Up until I got out of the Guard (now several years ago), its use coupled with bad magazines was the leading cause of base over bolt stoppages.

Regarding the use of the charging handle to get the BCG going going forward - as a left hander, the bolt catch is not my thumb when I finish inserting a new magazine. So automatically going to it is not my default. My work ARs have Redi-Mods on them, so pressing the bolt catch with my short trigger finger isn't a default option either. Pulling the charging handle to the rear and releasing it works regardless.

[GRV]

Very interesting to read about the historical and sling shooting perspectives!

[That Guy]

Regarding the use of the charging handle to get the BCG going going forward - as a left hander, the bolt catch is not my thumb when I finish inserting a new magazine. So automatically going to it is not my default. My work ARs have Redi-Mods on them, so pressing the bolt catch with my short trigger finger isn't a default option either. Pulling the charging handle to the rear and releasing it works regardless.

As a left-handed shooter, what I've done is reach around the magwell and hit the bolt catch with my support hand finger. I thought this was pretty much SOP in the AR-15 world?

[rcbusmc24]

One of the reasons that the Marine Corps requires the use of the Vickers Sling from Blue Force Gear as well at "requires" everyone to run it attached at the back of the stock and the front of the handguard is that this sling allows for unencumbered use close in while still allowing Marines who find themselves engaging targets at distance the ability to utilize the hasty sling for additional support. Now we just teach our guys to roll slightly while in the prone in order to access fresh mags with the strong hand vice staying slung up and using the support hand to reload the rifle. When I first came in the Marine Corps most of the time we fired our rifles was from the prone on a maneuver range. CQB shooting was not something the regular infantry did on a regular basis, not to mention what we trained new privates to be able to do at School of Infantry. 16 years of war has replaced theory for the most part now and we shoot from multiple positions to include off of barricades and in live fire/ grenade shoot houses with the brand new Privates. We have learned.... well most of us...

[Erick Gelhaus]

As a left-handed shooter, what I've done is reach around the magwell and hit the bolt catch with my support hand finger. I thought this was pretty much SOP in the AR-15 world?

It's viable, dependent on weapon set-up. For my work gun, I keep a Redi-Mod on it, here's a static pic of it doesn't work with that set-up. Yes, my fingers are really that short ... :)

27957

[DMF13]

Threads like this this amuse me, and remind me of something an old survival school (SV-80 ;)) instructor told us, "often there can be more than one right answer."

Try different methods, and see which one works for you, as what is "right" for one person, might not be "right" for you.

Here is what has what works for me:

I shoot pistols right hand dominant, and long guns left hand dominant. I also have long fingers (which actually is important).

So I keep my spare pistol mags on my left side, and spare rifle mags on my right side.

For a long gun reloads, I slide bring my right (non firing hand) back to the mag release, and drop the mag with my right thumb, and then use that same hand to pull the spare mag, and feed it into the magwell. Once the new mag is seated, the index finger (also "trigger finger") of the left hand, hits the bolt release to chamber a new round, while the right (non firing hand) moves forward, and I go to work.

That's what works best (including fastest) for me.

However, I will note, that inside approximately 25 yards, if my long gun stops working (for any reason, malfunction or running "dry"), I will most likely be transitioning to my pistol, before trying to fix the gun.

[rob_s]

Don’t overthink it.

Use your weak hand to retrieve the magazine unless the situation dictates that you can’t.

[JodyH]

If anyone is wondering why reloading as quickly and efficiently as possible is desirable please read Paul Gardner’s account of how he was wounded in Iraq:

https://www.swatmag.com/article/al-tarmiyah-firefight-lessons-learned-hard-way/
Awesome article.
I'll be sharing it with some people that suffer from the "unconscious incompetence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence)" inflicted on them by a stupid square range qualification mentality.

[taadski]

Does anyone have any video or experience with or seen/heard of someone doing an AR reload with their shooting hand? What I'm imagining is the support hand stays on the handguard and keeps the rifle shouldered and pointed downrange, the shooting hand then (in some order, not necessarily this one) leaves the grip, drops the mag, retrieves the new one, seats it, drops the bolt catch or runs the charging handle, and then goes back to the grip.

I summarily issue you a moosecock for suggesting such a thing.


https://i.imgur.com/hItTUBel.jpg