Shoulder Holster Recommendations

[JonInWA]

I know, I know-they're not ideal, and can be cumbersome and expensive. I know I can't use them in IDPA.

Unfortunately, what seems to be some sciatic nerve issues with my back may be a causal factor in me having to move away from belt holsters (hopefully only temporarily, if it does in fact become necessary).

At this point, the weapon I'd likely carry in a shoulder holster would be my P30L, but I'd also possibly consider my Beretta 92D, HK VP40 or Glock (G17 or G19).

At this point, due to their expense and possibly limited use, I'll likely only get one rig.

What are some specific recommendations/thoughts you can pass on?

Best, Jon

[SAWBONES]

First question since I don't know your size or shape: vertical or horizontal orientation of sidearm?

[JonInWA]

5'8", 195 lbs, prefer vertical orientation.

Best, Jon

[BillSWPA]

Most of my use of shoulder holsters has been with a horizontal orientation, so that may limit my ability to make recommendations.

Try to get one with a figure-8 harness, with a double spare magazine pouch under the opposite arm. Properly adjusted, a figure-8 harness will keep the pressure from the harness away from the back of your neck.

Adjust the shoulder straps tightly enough so that the gun and magazine pouch is relatively high on your torso, but not so high that the lower end is being pulled out by the straps. This way, when you bend at the waist, the gun and magazine pouch will not flop forward. Everything will also conceal better in this position.

I have not found belt tie-downs to be helpful. When I reach upward or forward, they tend to pull the gun into a position wherein it is more likely to print.

For specific recommendations, I have had very good experience with Galco (Miami Classic) and Kramer. Between the two, if I were buying again today, I would buy a Galco Miami Classic. Galco makes a vertical holster with the same shoulder strap setup. I would also suggest looking into Alessi and FIST.

My Dad used to use a Bianchi X15, which is a vertical holster with an open front that retains the gun using a flat spring within the holster body. Unfortunately it does not use the figure 8 harness. I have not worn it myself, so I cannot comment on comfort.

[Duke]

I’d do a fixed blade in a more accessible position and not worry the limitations cross body carry creates.

But that’s just me.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I'd look hard at the Sam Andrews Monarch rig. I had a Solo rig for a Kahr that was superb.

[Trooper224]

The Galco rigs really can't be beat, the Jackass, Miami Classic, etc. I know you stated vertical, but several years of wearing one showed me horizontal is really the best overall. They're also modular if you want to buy components for more than one gun, priced better than custom options and quicker to obtain.

Hint: whatever you get, choose one with a figure eight or four point harness like the Galco. When adjusting the straps make sure you take more slack out of the straps running under your arms rather than those going up over your shoulders. This will pull the swivel attachment done to a position between your shoulder blades, or close to it. This is the proper fit and a great aid in comfort. A lot of the criticism of shoulder holster comfort comes from users not knowing how to adjust them.

[SAWBONES]

For a quality balanced vertical shoulder rig, Lou Alessi's Fieldmaster is the best choice IME.
A vertical shoulder rig will almost always be more concealable (given a proper cover garment) than a horizontal rig, for a larger pistol.

The example I have for the 1911 is masterful in both design and construction.

The disadvantages of shoulder rigs are considerably minimized, and the draw is simply a grab 'n' pull proposition, with no thumb breaks or other impediments to overcome; there's a tilting inner sleeve that directly holds the pistol, which swivels in an outer frame that links to the belt.

(They're no longer made by Lou himself, of course, but the family members and associates who carry on the company are still quite good, and I have the same model, posthumously made, for the G19, so I can vouch for current production quality.)

I used to make considerable use of shoulder rigs, and will still use one for longer car trips.
They definitely fill a niche for those with back problems that make belt carry difficult, and especially if you sit down a lot, they definitely permit easier sidearm access than a hip-location holster.

[JohnO]

I'd look hard at the Sam Andrews Monarch rig. I had a Solo rig for a Kahr that was superb.

Sam Makes outstanding leather!

[JonInWA]

The Galco rigs really can't be beat, the Jackass, Miami Classic, etc. I know you stated vertical, but several years of wearing one showed me horizontal is really the best overall. They're also modular if you want to buy components for more than one gun, priced better than custom options and quicker to obtain.

Hint: whatever you get, choose one with a figure eight or four point harness like the Galco. When adjusting the straps make sure you take more slack out of the straps running under your arms rather than those going up over your shoulders. This will pull the swivel attachment done to a position between your shoulder blades, or close to it. This is the proper fit and a great aid in comfort. A lot of the criticism of shoulder holster comfort comes from users not knowing how to adjust them.

I'll certainly consider a horizontal, so as long as it'll sufficiently conceal the P30L.

Best, Jon

[BillSWPA]

A horizontal holster will not end up truly horizontal, but will much more often be angled with the muzzle pointed upward and the grip downward. This reduces the effective horizontal length which must be concealed. Maintaining this angle is one reason I dislike belt tie downs, and also one reason you will want a holster with very good retention.

[RevolverRob]

Jon,

You and I are almost the exact same size. I have yet to find a horizontal rig that will let me carry a full sized gun. And vertical rigs often place the butt too high for me to get a good grip.

You might consider the inexpensive Galco Classic Lite to try. Otherwise an Alessi bodyguard with the pull-through snap.

To be honest though, the slickest and best shoulder rig I have ever used is an upside down Martin-style rig for a Colt D-frame. A lightweight gun like a Cobra or Agent disappears and is extremely comfortable for all day carry. I’ve done probably ~25,000 miles wearing that rig and gun comfort was never a problem.

An upside down rig for a compact-subcompact gun to consider is the Null USH/USH-X.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I have the Alessi Bodyguard and while naturally it has all of the drawbacks of any shoulder holster, it sure carries nicely.

[TGS]

I have the Alessi Bodyguard and while naturally it has all of the drawbacks of any shoulder holster, it sure carries nicely.

And considering Misanthropists uses of a shoulder holster are quite a bit more.....vigorous.....than the average bear, I think that endorsement speaks volumes.

[Trooper224]

I'll certainly consider a horizontal, so as long as it'll sufficiently conceal the P30L.

Best, Jon

I never had any trouble concealing a 5" 1911.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

And considering Misanthropists uses of a shoulder holster are quite a bit more.....vigorous.....than the average bear, I think that endorsement speaks volumes.

It's one of those things where you kinda want the belt loops, but then you can't take off your pants. We've all got crosses to bear.

[greyghost]

I use them when my back/spine has flare ups.

I use a Galco Miami Classic with the SSH Harness which makes it much more comfortable for me.

[Brian T]

As I drive 5+ days a week as a profession, and most of it at night, I too have considered a shoulder holster rig. I carry a VP9 w/ SF X300 in an old RCS Phantom IWB. Unfortunately, nobody seems to make a shoulder holster, vertical or horizontal, for such a gun/light setup. It's a bummer. Galco makes a vertical shoulder holster for a P226/X300 combo, and Mike at Galco was supposed to advise how a VP9 or P30 w/ X300 would fit, but I havent heard back, so I take that as not a positive sign.

I did note that they now list the P30 as a normal component, which they didnt when I last investigated this.

[Rosco Benson]

Horizontal armpit holsters are bad ju-ju. Users usually muzzle their off-side arm while presenting or reholstering. The pistol ends up pointing at others. I will not stay in the area if a horizontal armpit holster is in use.


Even the vertical ones have issues. It is easy to get your shooting hand fouled in a necktie or just in the buttoned front of one's shirt as you try to present the pistol.


It might be better to stick with belt carry and wear suspenders to take the weight off the hips.


Rosco

[Chuck Whitlock]

I'd look hard at the Sam Andrews Monarch rig. I had a Solo rig for a Kahr that was superb.


Sam Makes outstanding leather!

He does indeed! I had the Solo and a McDaniel II for a K40, and stupidly included them in the trade for a G27. I now have a K9 and a CW9, and although I love my JM and CCC holsters for them, I sure wish I still had those Andrews rigs.

Back on topic........for a horizontal rig, you want to try to have the holster as high as you can in the armpit.

[TGS]

Horizontal armpit holsters are bad ju-ju. Users usually muzzle their off-side arm while presenting or reholstering. The pistol ends up pointing at others. I will not stay in the area if a horizontal armpit holster is in use.


Even the vertical ones have issues. It is easy to get your shooting hand fouled in a necktie or just in the buttoned front of one's shirt as you try to present the pistol.


It might be better to stick with belt carry and wear suspenders to take the weight off the hips.


Rosco

Most people muzzle themselves when holstering/unholstering a strong side OWB, too. There's a way to do it, and a way to not do it.....just the same as shoulder holsters.

Shoulder holsters have several disadvantages but there can be an appropriate use of them, as being discussed here where a medical condition precludes carry in a more conventional position. That does not mean they're "bad ju-ju"....it means the downsides should be considered and mitigated, if possible.

Otherwise it sounds like the OPs only other solution is to not have a gun at all....

[Totem Polar]

This whole thread makes me wish that S&W made a good, 4" scandium, no-lock K-frame. As one who was a kid in the 70s, I don’t think anything could be more awesome than a lightweight K-frame .357 in a classic “Dirty Harry” shoulder rig. I’d even buy the tweed sportcoats with the patched elbows to go along with it.

http://www.lawmanleathergoods.com


https://img.posterlounge.co.uk/images/wbig/poster-clint-eastwood-in-dirty-harry-358621.jpg


Hmmm... snappy, bespoke sportcoats; serious concealed firepower backed up by furtively deployed edged weapons of questionable design and origin; a mean-ass left hook; patriarchal, plainclothes cop bearing... it’s like Harry Callahan was an earlier, taller version of Craig... :D

[BehindBlueI's]

Even the vertical ones have issues. It is easy to get your shooting hand fouled in a necktie or just in the buttoned front of one's shirt as you try to present the pistol.


With a hammer fired gun it's also possible to damn near de-nipple yourself. Trust me.

[Hambo]

It is easy to get your shooting hand fouled in a necktie

Not if you never wear the stupid things.


With a hammer fired gun it's also possible to damn near de-nipple yourself. Trust me.

OK, I'm having real trouble understanding how that happens. But I'm not sure I want to understand how it happens. #conflicted (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=conflicted)

[BillSWPA]

Horizontal armpit holsters are bad ju-ju. Users usually muzzle their off-side arm while presenting or reholstering. The pistol ends up pointing at others. I will not stay in the area if a horizontal armpit holster is in use.


Even the vertical ones have issues. It is easy to get your shooting hand fouled in a necktie or just in the buttoned front of one's shirt as you try to present the pistol.


It might be better to stick with belt carry and wear suspenders to take the weight off the hips.


Rosco

A pocket carried pistol is pointed at whoever is sitting across from the wearer. A belt carried pistol is pointed at anyone on the floor below the wearer. A fanny pack carried pistol is pointed at anyone next to the wearer. An AIWB carried pistol is pointed at the wearer’s own family jewels.

Suspenders would be more likely to catch a gun than a tie.

Some situations require solutions that some might consider to be suboptimal. There are much worse ways to carry a gun than a shoulder holster.



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[BehindBlueI's]

Not if you never wear the stupid things.



OK, I'm having real trouble understanding how that happens. But I'm not sure I want to understand how it happens. #conflicted (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=conflicted)

One thing I wanted to evaluate a shoulder holster for was "is it superior to a belt holster while in plain clothes and seat belted in". I got a Galco VHS and started a bunch of dry practice draw strokes in a variety of positions.

Let's say you are seated in the driver seat of your car. Let's say there's a (simulated) problem at the driver side window. Let's say you push your left shoulder back to get your arm out of the way, which pushes your chest forward as the back of the seat won't let your shoulder go back and your chest stay stationary. Then let's say you draw into that modified retention shooting position where the gun will be in front of your chest to shoot at the threat in the window.

It's entirely possible that you drag the pistol across your chest and the rear edge of the hammer digs in right in front of your nipple and you come close to de-nippling yourself. And that was the end of that dry fire session.

[GardoneVT]

Horizontal armpit holsters are bad ju-ju. Users usually muzzle their off-side arm while presenting or reholstering. The pistol ends up pointing at others. I will not stay in the area if a horizontal armpit holster is in use.


Even the vertical ones have issues. It is easy to get your shooting hand fouled in a necktie or just in the buttoned front of one's shirt as you try to present the pistol.


It might be better to stick with belt carry and wear suspenders to take the weight off the hips.


Rosco

One major advantage of a horizontal shoulder holster is when suspected (but not confirmed!) trouble is afoot,an individual so armed can adopt a casual arms closed pose...with their primary hand now close to the sidearm, without brandishing or otherwise indicating overtly armed status.

[entropy]

I wonder how many folks that think a horizontal rig is dangerous, stick a striker fired gun in an AIWB rig lining the muzzle up with their junk?

Every method has risks. You deal with them.

I have an inexpensive little Galco Carry Lite rig for my snub SP101. Besides making me feel like a middle aged, slightly portly Steve McQueen wannabe, it works really nice for long drives. And yes, I DO have a sportcoat with elbow patches. Although it is gray denim and not tweed, I think it makes me look sophisticated. Especially if I wear a short turtleneck.

So there!

[SAWBONES]

All kinds of CCW methods potentially or actually point muzzles at others or at important parts of oneself, at least momentarily, at least some of the time.

I think we get kinda superstitious about this, or perhaps overly pious about adhering to the "Four Rules", making a bigger fuss about it than is realistic, at least sometimes.

Suppose the inclination of your hip holster permits a person behind you to be briefly covered by your pistol's muzzle as you bend over and turn; is that totally unacceptable?

Suppose your vertical shoulder holster permits momentary muzzle coverage of ones's opposite arm or of someone behind you during carry or during the draw; is that a situation genuinely promoting an accidental discharge?

Not if your sidearm is in proper working order and is functioning correctly.
Not if your finger isn't on the trigger.

No, I'm not being cavalier about muzzle consciousness, nor am I neglecting proper concern about matters of caution and care regarding firearms use.

Some people can't feel comfortable without religious and altogether-literal adherence to rules.
I understand and am sympathetic to that, though I think we carry it unnecessarily far sometimes.

Be aware of who and what is near you if at some time you truly must draw your sidearm for sake of defense of self or others.

Otherwise, don't pretend that the muzzle of your holstered CCW always and only points toward guaranteed "safe" spaces, because it isn't the case.

[Eli]

...And that was the end of that dry fire session.

"Alleged"

Alleged dry fire session.

:D

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I know this is not intended to be a discussion about the merits and faults of shoulder holsters but since I've spent more recent time in one than anyone else I know I'll just point out that in my opinion the problem is not flagging yourself or others; in fact I found that easy to train around.

The problem is that if it goes hands-on you have this thing flopping around, and your draw stroke is really easy to foul. If your clinched up with someone, getting to your gus is probably easier for them than you. Defending it is hard. If you go to the ground it's everwhere and possibly pointing at you while getting slammed around.

So while I do like them for certain applications, the entangled gunfight in a shoulder rig is really, really ugly.

[Rex G]

Another Andrews Monarch fan, here. The Monarch is horizontal, but Andrews may well make a vertical system. The Monarch has a very well-thought-out harness system, supremely stable without the need for tie-downs linked to a belt, which can be important for an older guy with a sometimes-sensitive lower digestive system. The strap that passes across the mid/lower back is an important part of the stability equation.

I found mine pre-owned, on evil-bay, set-up as a righty rig for the P228/P229. I also found a pre-owned lefty component set for the SP101, that included an Andrews holster body and modified Bianchi Scorpio ammo carrier. (The Scorpio ammo carrier has two dump pouches perfectly-sized for Bianchi Speed Strips.) When I phased-out .40 S&W and SIGs, I combined the Monarch harness with the SP101 holster body.

I may obtain another holster body, probably for a revolver, to make a double rig. This could be an entire replacement component, or, perhaps, pulling the dump pouches from their slots, and attaching a holster body (or, perhaps, a knife sheath) to the ammo carrier component.

[RevolverRob]

I don't want to be cavalier about muzzling people or myself either, but a gun in a properly made holster is about as safe as anything can be. A properly designed shoulder holster, with a thumb-break that encircles the hammer and/or goes between FP and hammer for a Cocked and Locked gun is just about as safe as can be.

Seriously, how many steps have to fail to get a hammer fired gun to go off in this mode?

1) The thumb break has to either come off - or be sufficiently weak to allow the hammer to move.
2) On a 1911 you'll need the thumb safety to come off
3) The grip safety has to be activated
4) There has to be sufficient force to activate the trigger (a few pounds for a 1911, 8-12 for a TDA handgun, 6-8 for an LEM, 8-12 for a DA revolver).

That's a lot of steps to get a gun to go off in a shoulder holster. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's less likely than an AIWB ND with a Glock, that's for sure.

FYI - after this thread I spent awhile looking at various shoulder holster designs. Most horizontal designs are too high. Gun in the armpit is okay for concealment, but bad for getting a good grip on the gun. Ideally the gun is muzzle up, butt down or as near as possible. For many guns a 45-degree cant or thereabouts is perfect. After looking across about two dozen designs, the Galco Jackass is what I would go with, because the rear attachment point on the holster allows it to be adjusted across a range of butt down/muzzle up cants. The Andrews Monarch is a very close second and appears to have good angle adjustment too, the additional strap across the lowerback on the Andrews would be really nice for when one bends over.

[JAD]

Some of y’all are arguing with a straw man. Rosco didn’t assert that a holstered gun is dangerous; Rosco was an earnest student of defensive pistolcraft when many of us were in grade school and knows what’s up.

Rosco asserted that drawing a firearm from a horizontal shoulder holster is hard to do safely — both in terms of covering yourself and in being conscious of what else you’re flagging when reholstering. In the same sense that aiwb is in many ways the safest method of carry, because muzzle direction and holster fouling is as easy as it can be to watch and control, a HSH is a worst case scenario.

If they’re really needful then fine, but as a person who does ok with belt carry I’ve never risked buying one despite being a compulsive holster collector.

[Trukinjp13]

I have a high noon shoulder rig. Its the cheaper version they make. It is okay. At best. I bought it for a long gone vp9. But may try the p30 in her. I can see the merit of a quality rig though. It does have downsides. But I also do not mind rocking a ankle rig. I make some 1100 mile trips through the year. And while not ideal the ankle holster is comfortable and fast inside a vehicle. I have been entertaining the shoulder rig again. If nothing else to have my p30 on my person and spare reloads. I keep it in my pack riding shotgun. But that is not very fast and is pretty obvious.


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[Trooper224]

We've pretty well spun this thread off the OPs question. So, now that we've all been schooled on how shoulder holsters are death incarnate, let's change directions and talk about the other redheaded step child of carry systems. OP, have you considered an ankle holster?

[deputyG23]

I had a serious bout of sciatica/L4/L5 disc slip in ‘16 which took me out of work for six weeks because I could not wear a duty belt. Nor could I tolerate belt carry off duty in civvies.
My solution was a pocket carried airweight J Frame with one speed strip reload.
Another poster brought up Mr. Null’s shoulder holsters. This along with the pocket may be a solution for two snub carry with the pocket one being the primary and the upside down shoulder carried one being accessible while seated or possibly accessible to the weak hand. Need to check KL Null’s webpage to see if either of his upside down rigs can be operated with the weak hand.

[JonInWA]

We've pretty well spun this thread off the OPs question. So, now that we've all been schooled on how shoulder holsters are death incarnate, let's change directions and talk about the other redheaded step child of carry systems. OP, have you considered an ankle holster?

The OP is relatively unimpressed with ankle holsters. I've had 3; a Galco leather, a Galco neoprene, (the Galcos were for Glock G26/G19s) and a Kramer horsehide (for a Smith & Wesson 640), and still have one-the Galco leather.

The Galco neoprene was pretty much a piece of junk-not well made or durable, and uncomfortable. The Kramer was fine up to a point, and very well made, but the all-steel 640 was somewhat uncomfortable to carry, so both the gun and the holster went away, hopefully to a more satisfied user.

The Galco leather is ok, but even with a light protective undersock still tends to chafe my leg in fairly short order. Do-able, even with a G19, but I'm not a huge fan, and would only go that route with it was situationally absolutely necessary.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

Thanks for everybody's input-it's all been exceptionally helpful for me in narrowing things down. I saw the doctor today, and he's optimistic that my aggravation will eventually go away-hopefully sooner than a lingering later.

I'm oriented now more towards either a horizontal ( e.g., Miami Classic) or butt-down (e.g., Jackass) rig. With the most likely pistol being dedicated to shoulder use being my P30L, what be the thoughts of these two types of rigs vis-a-vis the P30L's slightly longer (4.5") barrel?

Best, Jon

[BillSWPA]

I am 5’ 8”, 166 lb., and I can conceal a Glock 19 in a Miami Classic. That probably approaches my limit for really good concealment, although I have concealed larger guns in cheaper holsters. The Jackass rig will be more concealable, but will depend even more heavily on the retention strap to keep the gun secured, with most of the weight of the gun bearing down on that strap.



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[El Cid]

Thanks for everybody's input-it's all been exceptionally helpful for me in narrowing things down. I saw the doctor today, and he's optimistic that my aggravation will eventually go away-hopefully sooner than a lingering later.

I'm oriented now more towards either a horizontal ( e.g., Miami Classic) or butt-down (e.g., Jackass) rig. With the most likely pistol being dedicated to shoulder use being my P30L, what be the thoughts of these two types of rigs vis-a-vis the P30L's slightly longer (4.5") barrel?

Best, Jon

I started keeping a WML on my gun 24/7 many years ago. I wanted a shoulder rig for the times when it’s a better option (like 17hr road trips). Not wanting to give up my WML I had Coffman Concealment make this. He used a Galco harness. The muzzle are was left open so it works with a G19/17/34.

I also have back issues which is why I went with a perfectly balanced set up.

https://i.imgur.com/9HAxEze_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[Trooper224]

Thanks for everybody's input-it's all been exceptionally helpful for me in narrowing things down. I saw the doctor today, and he's optimistic that my aggravation will eventually go away-hopefully sooner than a lingering later.

I'm oriented now more towards either a horizontal ( e.g., Miami Classic) or butt-down (e.g., Jackass) rig. With the most likely pistol being dedicated to shoulder use being my P30L, what be the thoughts of these two types of rigs vis-a-vis the P30L's slightly longer (4.5") barrel?

Best, Jon

I've used an Alessi ankle holster and a Kahr K9 for over twenty years as a BUG and wouldn't use any other ankle rig.

I liked the orientation of the Jackass for concealing a 5" 1911.

[JonInWA]

I've tentatively narrowed things down to 2 main contenders:

-Galco's Jackass Rig;https://www.galcogunleather.com/jackass-rig-shoulder-system_8_2_1167.html

-El Paso Saddlery's #200 https://epsaddlery.com/product/200-shoulder-system-complete-rig/

At this point, while both are the strongly recommended "figure 8" systems mentioned in the thread, I'm slightly more inclined to El Paso Saddlery's #200; their workmanship is absolutely superb, and their leather quality is excellent-and they have a lifetime warranty (as I just recently discovered with one of their belts which after some 20 years of use required a billet to be replaced after cracking and breaking-they beautifully repaired it, and refinished the entire belt-at zero charge. I've been very pleased with Galco as well, but I think that like the leather flared shoulder straps of the El Paso rig a bit more than the suede of the Galco Jackass for comfort and durability.

Both rigs utilize a canted butt-down approach, which I suspect will work best with 4.5" barrels, as the cant will provide for a bit more concealment/lack of printing for such full-size barrel/slide lengths. Price is about the same for both (the Galco can probably be obtained for a bit less, but not so much that it's of any real significance in the decision)

Now another decision point: Platform. My initial intention is to utilize my HK P30L (and possibly use the same rig for my VP40; the viability of such an interchangeability between the two HKs is being check out). This year in particular I've really committed to primarily using my P30L and Beretta 92D; out of those two, I think the HK is the better choice, from a weight and balance standpoint in particular for use in a shoulder rig.

However (and there's always a "however," isn't there?...Another thought would be to go back to my Glocks for shoulder carry, as the same rig could be interchangeably used for my G17, G19 and G22. I do well with Glocks, and mine are all well vetted performers. Their weight and finish durability (including that of their magazines) is another plus. The downside to Glocks is that in a duty/threat management pistol, I think that the P30L in V1 LEM (and the Beretta 92D DAO) are better choices, as we've discussed in some detail here on p-f, with Darryl/Dagga Boy's thoughts being the best proponent of this; I've certainly bought into it for the past year with no regrets.

Again, continued thoughts and inputs appreciated.

Best, Jon

[03RN]

There is no comparison between the leather of Elpasso saddlery and galco.

Check out ebay. They have some Elpasso saddlery holsters nearly half off. I'm not sure if there are any in the exact configuration you're looking for though. I saw a fully carved spider shoulder rig for $160ish

[Brian T]

Jon,

With your desire to carry a P30L, how are you planning to get an El Paso holster considering they dont offer a shoulder rig for it? Do they have other HK options and just havent updated their website?

Anyone, have any of you found a company that offers a line of shoulder rigs for pistols with WMLs?

[TGS]

Jon,

With your desire to carry a P30L, how are you planning to get an El Paso holster considering they dont offer a shoulder rig for it? Do they have other HK options and just havent updated their website?

Anyone, have any of you found a company that offers a line of shoulder rigs for pistols with WMLs?

JRC is currently making some for a coworker and I.

[JonInWA]

Jon,

With your desire to carry a P30L, how are you planning to get an El Paso holster considering they dont offer a shoulder rig for it? Do they have other HK options and just havent updated their website?

Anyone, have any of you found a company that offers a line of shoulder rigs for pistols with WMLs?

They do make them for the P30, and just haven't updated their ordering options on the website. I had an excellent conversation with them, and they're checking to see if their #200 can be blocked to allow for interchangeable use with both my P30L and VP40. Otherwise, I may go it with a Glock holster, allowing for interchangeable use with my G17/G19/G22 (or just suck it up and accept that the HK P30 holster can only be used for a P30...).

Best, Jon

[Chuck Whitlock]

I've tentatively narrowed things down to 2 main contenders:

-Galco's Jackass Rig;https://www.galcogunleather.com/jackass-rig-shoulder-system_8_2_1167.html

-El Paso Saddlery's #200 https://epsaddlery.com/product/200-shoulder-system-complete-rig/

The whole strap-around-the-grip-tang would preclude the EP version. While it secures the gun, it is wholly unsat for actually drawing the thing.

Just on a person note, my one experience with EP was less than satisfactory. I ordered a Summer Cruiser IWB for a G19......which was molded so well that my son uses it for his Beretta 92F.
I sent it back, and they did swap the tan belt loops for black like I asked, but that was it.






Now another decision point: Platform. My initial intention is to utilize my HK P30L (and possibly use the same rig for my VP40; the viability of such an interchangeability between the two HKs is being check out). This year in particular I've really committed to primarily using my P30L and Beretta 92D; out of those two, I think the HK is the better choice, from a weight and balance standpoint in particular for use in a shoulder rig.

No experience with the HKs, but using a G27 in Jackass holster was less than pleasant just because ALL the weight was in the butt, and the barrel/slide length was too short to offer any kind of counter balance. The P30L might not have such an issue, but the 92D just might balance better, with better weight distribution.




However (and there's always a "however," isn't there?...Another thought would be to go back to my Glocks for shoulder carry, as the same rig could be interchangeably used for my G17, G19 and G22. I do well with Glocks, and mine are all well vetted performers. Their weight and finish durability (including that of their magazines) is another plus. The downside to Glocks is that in a duty/threat management pistol, I think that the P30L in V1 LEM (and the Beretta 92D DAO) are better choices, as we've discussed in some detail here on p-f, with Darryl/Dagga Boy's thoughts being the best proponent of this; I've certainly bought into it for the past year with no regrets.

I fall into the same camp about threat management triggers, but the NY1 spring /(-)connector combo works well in the Glock, and with the SCD would not give me any heartburn to carry.

Just a couple of thoughts.

[Duelist]

The whole strap-around-the-grip-tang would preclude the EP version. While it secures the gun, it is wholly unsat for actually drawing the thing.

Just on a person note, my one experience with EP was less than satisfactory. I ordered a Summer Cruiser IWB for a G19......which was molded so well that my son uses it for his Beretta 92F.
I sent it back, and they did swap the tan belt loops for black like I asked, but that was it.






No experience with the HKs, but using a G27 in Jackass holster was less than pleasant just because ALL the weight was in the butt, and the barrel/slide length was too short to offer any kind of counter balance. The P30L might not have such an issue, but the 92D just might balance better, with better weight distribution.




I fall into the same camp about threat management triggers, but the NY1 spring /(-)connector combo works well in the Glock, and with the SCD would not give me any heartburn to carry.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Chuck,

I agree about the retention strap on that El Paso rig - non-starter.

Do you think the Jackass rig’s holster angle contributed to the relative unpleasantness of carrying your G27? IOW, would a horizontal holster (Miami Classic, for example) work better?

I hope so, since I just ordered one to try with my G26. But if it doesn’t work out, at least it’s usable with a longer slide Glock, so I can hopefully find a happy place. And if not, I can put a Beretta holster on the rig.

[JonInWA]

I had a good follow up discussion with El Paso Saddlery today; they can block the #200 holster body so that it can be interchangeably be used for both the P30L and VP40; that's good news.

Glock still might be a contender; I'm mulling that over.

Chuck, thanks for muddying the waters with the Beretta 92 suggestion....I've been considering that as well. While I'm thinking a polymer-framed pistol might be a tad more easier/comfortable with a shoulder holster from a weight/balance standpoint (and length-my 92D is fairly long, with an overall length of some 8.5" with a 4.9" barrel).

Best, Jon

[TGS]

I had a good follow up discussion with El Paso Saddlery today; they can block the #200 holster body so that it can be interchangeably be used for both the P30L and VP40; that's good news.

Glock still might be a contender; I'm mulling that over.

Chuck, thanks for muddying the waters with the Beretta 92 suggestion....I've been considering that as well. While I'm thinking a polymer-framed pistol might be a tad more easier/comfortable with a shoulder holster from a weight/balance standpoint (and length-my 92D is fairly long, with an overall length of some 8.5" with a 4.9" barrel).

Best, Jon

Not sure about length, but as far as weight I found a P229 to be supremely comfortable in a shoulder holster.

Except for guys with back problems, most of us that do have a shoulder rig typically only wear them when seated in a vehicle for an entire day (like when assigned as a driver), so my experience is limited in that regard.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Chuck,

I agree about the retention strap on that El Paso rig - non-starter.

Do you think the Jackass rig’s holster angle contributed to the relative unpleasantness of carrying your G27? IOW, would a horizontal holster (Miami Classic, for example) work better?

I hope so, since I just ordered one to try with my G26. But if it doesn’t work out, at least it’s usable with a longer slide Glock, so I can hopefully find a happy place. And if not, I can put a Beretta holster on the rig.

I think it was more weight distribution. I'd had a Sam Andrews Solo shoulder rig for Kahr K40 that was supremely comfortable. I attempted to duplicate that with a Glock Jackass rig by replacing the off-side with an elastic setup. With the 27, ALL the weight is in the butt of the gun, and gravity just wanted to have its way. I used both successfully under a zipped leather bomber jacket and tucked in button-up shirts, but the 27's weight distribution was out of whack. (The shoulder harness points were at the muzzle and ejection port) I didn't try it a lot with the 23 or 22, and that could've made a difference. I still have the Jackass rig + pieces.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I had a good follow up discussion with El Paso Saddlery today; they can block the #200 holster body so that it can be interchangeably be used for both the P30L and VP40; that's good news.

Glock still might be a contender; I'm mulling that over.

Chuck, thanks for muddying the waters with the Beretta 92 suggestion....I've been considering that as well. While I'm thinking a polymer-framed pistol might be a tad more easier/comfortable with a shoulder holster from a weight/balance standpoint (and length-my 92D is fairly long, with an overall length of some 8.5" with a 4.9" barrel).

Best, Jon

1) How do the overall dimensions compare between the P30L and the 92D?

2) Compare the balance point between the two with fully loaded magazines. The more weight toward the butt, the more it's going to want to droop and or swing. With the horizontal rig, the more weight toward the center of the gun or muzzle, the better. Weight distribution is more important than total weight.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Except for guys with back problems, most of us that do have a shoulder rig typically only wear them when seated in a vehicle for an entire day (like when assigned as a driver), so my experience is limited in that regard.

My use was as a BUG under a sport coat, or when an untucked shirt was contraindicated. Worked nicely at my kids' functions in the school gym with a partially zipped short bomber jacket and a spare mag in a pocket carrier.

[El Cid]

My use was as a BUG under a sport coat, or when an untucked shirt was contraindicated. Worked nicely at my kids' functions in the school gym with a partially zipped short bomber jacket and a spare mag in a pocket carrier.

I’ve used a shoulder rig under a tucked in button down shirt. If I need it quickly I just do the Superman and rip the shirt open. You do have to be careful if it’s a place where people hug. Go low and force their arms up over yours. Lol!

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I’ve used a shoulder rig under a tucked in button down shirt. If I need it quickly I just do the Superman and rip the shirt open. You do have to be careful if it’s a place where people hug. Go low and force their arms up over yours. Lol!

think of how impressive it would be if you wore it under a tucked in t-shirt, and instead of doing the Superman, you did the Hulk Hogan

[El Cid]

think of how impressive it would be if you wore it under a tucked in t-shirt, and instead of doing the Superman, you did the Hulk Hogan

Lol! Seeing me shirtless would scare away any attacker.

[TGS]

I don't know why I did not think to mention this earlier, and I don't know if it would help the OP.

However, for other people with back problems or other people who are simply in the business of carrying a lot of weight on their belt for extended periods of time, I strongly recommend looking into Perry suspenders. I personally wear the uBEE model, which essentially mimics an elastic shoulder holster harness system that Clips to each side of your belt. In addition to taking weight off of the hips and turning a gun belt and suspenders set up into what is essentially load-bearing equipment, it also allows me to mount equipment to it such as a tourniquet and my radio wires. Some people put other stuff on it, like a flashlight, small pocket knife (so it doesn't tear up their suit pocket), etc.

I have the more ubiqitous traditional 3-clip attachment Perry's too, and they also work well and are generally easier to work around equipment on your belt. However, those suspenders have a habit of wanting to come off my shoulders and need frequent readjusting in this regard, as well as my findings that I can foul my draw with the front right suspenders. Hence, I switched to the uBEE, which has the attachment points right at the two heaviest points on my belt: the gun on the right side, and between the double mag pouches and radio on the left.

Highly suggested. Perry's are extremely popular at my job for all of the above reasons, and while it might not help someone with a shoulder injury who can't easily reach their gun at 3 O'clock, I think they should be your first attempted solution if you have some ailment prior to making the big cash investment into a shoulder holster that has so many down sides and moves the gun from a position where you've spent a lifetime building reps and muscle memory.

Perry uBEE is here: http://perrysuspenders.com/2uborpesu.html

[JTQ]

Regarding the Perry uBEE suspenders...

Does that model cause problems with holster placement for a strongside IWB/OWB holster?

[SAWBONES]

...for other people with back problems or other people who are simply in the business of carrying a lot of weight on their belt for extended periods of time, I strongly recommend looking into Perry suspenders. I personally wear the uBEE model, which essentially mimics an elastic shoulder holster harness system that Clips to each side of your belt. In addition to taking weight off of the hips and turning a gun belt and suspenders set up into what is essentially load-bearing equipment, it also allows me to mount equipment to it such as a tourniquet and my radio wires. Some people put other stuff on it, like a flashlight, small pocket knife (so it doesn't tear up their suit pocket), etc.

I have the more ubiqitous traditional 3-clip attachment Perry's too, and they also work well and are generally easier to work around equipment on your belt. However, those suspenders have a habit of wanting to come off my shoulders and need frequent readjusting in this regard, as well as my findings that I can foul my draw with the front right suspenders. Hence, I switched to the uBEE, which has the attachment points right at the two heaviest points on my belt: the gun on the right side, and between the double mag pouches and radio on the left.

Highly suggested.


Glad you posted that.


I've used the Perry 3-point suspenders in this manner for over 20 years.

Since as a professional wearing business-type clothing I carry just behind the hip rather than AIWB, the 2-point uBEE Perry's are the ones that foul the draw for me, not the regular 3-point type (left and right front-lateral and central-posterior belt clips).

I've found that judicious adjustment of the shoulder strap lengths obviates the potential problem with a strap slipping off a shoulder.

Sidearm, reloads, knife, keys & pager add up to a load that would sag and tilt if suspended wholly by the belt at the area between waist & hips, and the added support of the Perry's suspenders is a real boon.

I've tried and used all their differing-strength types at different times (Original, 2" Ruf-N-Tuf, 2" Construction) for guns of differing weights, and found the 2" Ruf-N-Tuf to be the most versatile and broadly applicable.

The Perry's suspenders in effect give you belt-level CCW concealment-access benefits combined with the back-relieving support of a shoulder rig.

Definitely recommended for those who feel a need for such.

:D

[BillSWPA]

Given the criticality of the retention strap with a downward angled holster, I would not want one that is detachable. I would want it to be made as one piece with the rest of the holster. This would definitely make Galco my choice as between the two choices posted above.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TGS]

Since as a professional wearing business-type clothing I carry just behind the hip rather than AIWB, the 2-point uBEE Perry's are the ones that foul the draw for me, not the regular 3-point type (left and right front-lateral and central-posterior belt clips).

Ahh, that makes sense. I carry at 2:30-3 in a suit.



The Perry's suspenders in effect give you belt-level CCW concealment-access benefits combined with the back-relieving support of a shoulder rig.


Perfect way of putting it...….and even if "you" (the reader) do not feel back pain but carry a heavy loadout, it can still be a huge advantage for comfort because of how well supported your equipment is. It allows me to loosen my belt to a comfortable tension without having my pants fall down.


Regarding the Perry uBEE suspenders...

Does that model cause problems with holster placement for a strongside IWB/OWB holster?

I wear the suspenders reversed (clipping the belt from inside instead of outside) which allows me to place the clip right in between the holster body and belt slide/loop of the holster. I imagine this could be holster dependent, but it works fine with my RCS Phantom(?) and JRC OWB pancake. I imagine an RCS Perun would work even better.

ETA: No idea how it would work with IWB, but I'd danger not well. The suspenders are OWB, while your gun would be IWB...….

[SAWBONES]

Ahh, that makes sense. I carry at 2:30-3 in a suit.

With never any inadvertent sidearm exposure? I'd be afraid leaning forward would "show", and my environment is such that concealment is pretty much paramount.


...….and even if "you" (the reader) do not feel back pain but carry a heavy loadout, it can still be a huge advantage for comfort because of how well supported your equipment is. It allows me to loosen my belt to a comfortable tension without having my pants fall down.

Definitely a plus sometimes when peeing...:p

[HeavyDuty]

I might as well throw my limited experience in.

My reason for using a shoulder holster is a little different, but now that I blew out four discs I may be doing it more often. I mostly wear a shoulder holster when I’m driving my Miata (my ass is maximum width as it is, a belt gun is very uncomfortable.) For years it’s been a 442 in a Ken Null SKR, but lately I’ve been working with my G43 in a Safariland 7052 or 7053 horizontal ALS shoulder holster. I’m impressed with the Safariland so far, it works well for my purposes.

FWIW

[TGS]

With never any inadvertent sidearm exposure? I'd be afraid leaning forward would "show", and my environment is such that concealment is pretty much paramount.

If I'm wearing a suit, it's generally as LE business. Everyone knows we have guns regardless, so occasional exposure is fine as long as it's not some sort of embarrassing or otherwise unwanted display that would detract from our mission. When wearing suits on personal business (attending a wedding, dinner, etc) I haven't noticed it being overly exposed that would cause concern.

Carrying on or slightly forward of the hip is much easier to keep track of my weapon and defend it if necessary, too.

I haven't noticed it being a concealment problem to begin with...When wearing a suit (or untucked shirt) I actually think it conceals better at or just forward of the hip compared to behind the hip. Leaning forward is almost certainly more exposing if the gun is behind the hip, anyways, as the butt of the gun now becomes an apex that the garment has to drape over.

[03RN]

JonInWA
If you pay shipping you can borrow this.
28028

[03RN]

28029
:eek:

[JonInWA]

JonInWA
If you pay shipping you can borrow this.
28028

That's a huge offer-I assume the holster's for a Glock? I'll PM you.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

I don't know why I did not think to mention this earlier, and I don't know if it would help the OP.

However, for other people with back problems or other people who are simply in the business of carrying a lot of weight on their belt for extended periods of time, I strongly recommend looking into Perry suspenders. I personally wear the uBEE model, which essentially mimics an elastic shoulder holster harness system that Clips to each side of your belt. In addition to taking weight off of the hips and turning a gun belt and suspenders set up into what is essentially load-bearing equipment, it also allows me to mount equipment to it such as a tourniquet and my radio wires. Some people put other stuff on it, like a flashlight, small pocket knife (so it doesn't tear up their suit pocket), etc.

I have the more ubiqitous traditional 3-clip attachment Perry's too, and they also work well and are generally easier to work around equipment on your belt. However, those suspenders have a habit of wanting to come off my shoulders and need frequent readjusting in this regard, as well as my findings that I can foul my draw with the front right suspenders. Hence, I switched to the uBEE, which has the attachment points right at the two heaviest points on my belt: the gun on the right side, and between the double mag pouches and radio on the left.

Highly suggested. Perry's are extremely popular at my job for all of the above reasons, and while it might not help someone with a shoulder injury who can't easily reach their gun at 3 O'clock, I think they should be your first attempted solution if you have some ailment prior to making the big cash investment into a shoulder holster that has so many down sides and moves the gun from a position where you've spent a lifetime building reps and muscle memory.

Perry uBEE is here: http://perrysuspenders.com/2uborpesu.html

The suspenders are a great idea, and one that I similarly incorporated this year, choosing to go with the CCW ComfortSling http://www.ccwcomfortsling.com/. It's worked quite nicely, and I've used it for both regular carry and IDPA competition; they too also have a full suspender version.

My current issue leading towards the quest for a shoulder holster is not so much the weight of the gun, it's where the gun/holster rubs against the nerve in my lower back/hip. Hence the quest for the shoulder holster, hopefully for the short term. It's much worse with some holsters/guns than others, so finding the right combination for strong-side IWB/OWB carry is a bit of a trial-and-error work in progress.

O3RN's exceptionally generous offer to lend me his wide-strapped Miami Classic for Glocks will be a huge step in narrowing the field for me (as has been everyone's shared experience, suggestions and guidance-one of the outstanding features of the p-f community here).

Best, Jon

[Brian T]

Galco got back to me after 2 months. Their only WML capable holster wont work with my particular choice. They have no plans at all to expand their catalog to include WML equipped pistols. As I drive mostly at night, being without a WML is a no-go. While the RCS Phantom I am using now isnt the most comfortable, it's what I have.

[Rex G]

Galco got back to me after 2 months. Their only WML capable holster wont work with my particular choice. They have no plans at all to expand their catalog to include WML equipped pistols. As I drive mostly at night, being without a WML is a no-go. While the RCS Phantom I am using now isnt the most comfortable, it's what I have.

Depending upon how much concealment you actually need, in the darkness, you may be able to find what you need in the Safariland system, if Safariland makes a WML-compatible holster body for your pistol/WML combo. I seem to recall a shoulder rig, for an ALS and/or SLS belt holster body. The Safariland maze is difficult to navigate, but there are so very many combinations.

Some customs makers, also, make various things combatible with the Safariland bold hole pattern.

[Brian T]

Depending upon how much concealment you actually need, in the darkness, you may be able to find what you need in the Safariland system, if Safariland makes a WML-compatible holster body for your pistol/WML combo. I seem to recall a shoulder rig, for an ALS and/or SLS belt holster body. The Safariland maze is difficult to navigate, but there are so very many combinations.

Some customs makers, also, make various things combatible with the Safariland bold hole pattern.

Oh they do. The problem is their shoulder holster rig is atrocious. Its elastic on one side, and I guess vinyl on the strong side. It doesnt offer means of attaching extra mags or a handheld light. The reviews on Safariland's own website aren't, shall we say, inspiring. Neither is the design. If I could find a way to use Galco's MCHX and a Safariland holster, I'd be all in.

I'm gonna have to go back through this thread, I could swear someone mentioned a leathersmith that marries up a Safariland holster.

[El Cid]

Oh they do. The problem is their shoulder holster rig is atrocious. Its elastic on one side, and I guess vinyl on the strong side. It doesnt offer means of attaching extra mags or a handheld light. The reviews on Safariland's own website aren't, shall we say, inspiring. Neither is the design. If I could find a way to use Galco's MCHX and a Safariland holster, I'd be all in.

I'm gonna have to go back through this thread, I could swear someone mentioned a leathersmith that marries up a Safariland holster.

Check my post #41. He will make it with a traditional off-side if you don’t want two pistols. He used the Galco harness I asked him to.

[Rex G]

Depending upon how much concealment you actually need, in the darkness, you may be able to find what you need in the Safariland system, if Safariland makes a WML-compatible holster body for your pistol/WML combo. I seem to recall a shoulder rig, for an ALS and/or SLS belt holster body. The Safariland maze is difficult to navigate, but there are so very many combinations.

Some customs makers, also, make various things combatible with the Safariland bold hole pattern.

Err, the above should have been typed “Some custom makers, also, make various things combatible with the Safariland bolt hole pattern.”

[S Jenks]

I just ordered a Jackass rig for my DW Guardian for a Boston - Beaumont, TX road trip next month and I’m looking forward to trying it out. The DW is my restricted-state LEOSA companion when I pass through NY, CT, Dirty Jersey, etc.

I have a Miami Classic set up for Glocks but want to give the butt-down/muzzle up orientation a shot. I did carry a G23 AIWB going from Boston - San Diego 6 years back, in a black Camaro SSII :) ...but that was about 15 lbs ago.

[GJM]

Best shoulder holster I have used.

28552

[HeavyDuty]

Depending upon how much concealment you actually need, in the darkness, you may be able to find what you need in the Safariland system, if Safariland makes a WML-compatible holster body for your pistol/WML combo. I seem to recall a shoulder rig, for an ALS and/or SLS belt holster body. The Safariland maze is difficult to navigate, but there are so very many combinations.

Some customs makers, also, make various things combatible with the Safariland bold hole pattern.

This is the Safariland holster I mentioned above in post 64. Mine is 7TS based, can those be had in WML versions? You’d have to remove the T nuts, but I think it would be easily accomplished.

[JonInWA]

Best shoulder holster I have used.

28552

Which is whose, George??

Best, Jon

[Brian T]

I ordered a Safariland ALS LH VP9 w/ X300U holster with plain, smooth finish. I figure if the shoulder holster doesnt work out, I have a good OWB for it. I will call Coffman Concealment tomorrow.

[GJM]

Which is whose, George??

Best, Jon

Survival Sheath Systems, but they are tough to do business with.

[Sigfan26]

Survival Sheath Systems, but they are tough to do business with.

Yes, they are


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian T]

According to Mr Coffman, its a no-go.

[El Cid]

According to Mr Coffman, its a no-go.

Which part exactly? Using a Safariland ALS?

[Gary1911A1]

Best shoulder holster I have used.

28552

Does anybody make this style of holster besides the maker of this one?

[Brian T]

Which part exactly? Using a Safariland ALS?

Yes. He said it wont work. I asked if there was another way, and comms ceased.

Its this holster, btw

http://www.safariland.com/products/holsters-and-gear/holsters/concealable-holsters/belt-slide/model-6376-als-concealment-hi-ride-belt-slide-holster-model_6376.html?dwfrm_holsterfinder_gunid=273425&dwfrm_holsterfinder_lightid=11258&dwfrm_holsterfinder_addonid=&dwfrm_holsterfinder_guntype=pistol&dwfrm_holsterfinder_manufacturer=Heckler+%26+Koch&dwfrm_holsterfinder_model=P30&dwfrm_holsterfinder_barrellength=3.86&dwfrm_holsterfinder_caliber=9x19mm+Parabellum&dwfrm_holsterfinder_haslight=&dwfrm_holsterfinder_lighttype=Surefire+-+X300&dwfrm_holsterfinder_hasaddon=&dwfrm_holsterfinder_addontype=

[HeavyDuty]

Yes. He said it wont work. I asked if there was another way, and comms ceased.

Its this holster, btw

http://www.safariland.com/products/holsters-and-gear/holsters/concealable-holsters/belt-slide/model-6376-als-concealment-hi-ride-belt-slide-holster-model_6376.html?dwfrm_holsterfinder_gunid=273425&dwfrm_holsterfinder_lightid=11258&dwfrm_holsterfinder_addonid=&dwfrm_holsterfinder_guntype=pistol&dwfrm_holsterfinder_manufacturer=Heckler+%26+Koch&dwfrm_holsterfinder_model=P30&dwfrm_holsterfinder_barrellength=3.86&dwfrm_holsterfinder_caliber=9x19mm+Parabellum&dwfrm_holsterfinder_haslight=&dwfrm_holsterfinder_lighttype=Surefire+-+X300&dwfrm_holsterfinder_hasaddon=&dwfrm_holsterfinder_addontype=

I’m confused, because I have a factory made ALS shoulder holster. There are a few minor changes from a belt version, but nothing spectacular.

[El Cid]

Yes. He said it wont work. I asked if there was another way, and comms ceased.

Its this holster, btw

http://www.safariland.com/products/holsters-and-gear/holsters/concealable-holsters/belt-slide/model-6376-als-concealment-hi-ride-belt-slide-holster-model_6376.html?dwfrm_holsterfinder_gunid=273425&dwfrm_holsterfinder_lightid=11258&dwfrm_holsterfinder_addonid=&dwfrm_holsterfinder_guntype=pistol&dwfrm_holsterfinder_manufacturer=Heckler+%26+Koch&dwfrm_holsterfinder_model=P30&dwfrm_holsterfinder_barrellength=3.86&dwfrm_holsterfinder_caliber=9x19mm+Parabellum&dwfrm_holsterfinder_haslight=&dwfrm_holsterfinder_lighttype=Surefire+-+X300&dwfrm_holsterfinder_hasaddon=&dwfrm_holsterfinder_addontype=

Hmm. I’m betting it’s the holster you want to use. I had him make Kydex holsters for the Galco harness and am very happy with it. Looking at my duty ALS holsters I don’t think I’d like them as a shoulder holster anyway based on how wide they are.

I contacted Coffman after researching this topic and not wanting to roll the dice with Survival Sheath Systems.

[Brian T]

The holster I ordered isnt really a duty a holster. It's more of an OWB concealment holster.

[El Cid]

The holster I ordered isnt really a duty a holster. It's more of an OWB concealment holster.

If you already have a holster you want to use, what about buying the harness and rigging them up yourself? Doesn’t seem like you’d need a Kydex bender for that. That could be why Coffman declined. I could ask Mitch Rosen if he could make me a shoulder rig with a leather Bianchi belt holster and I bet he’d say no as well.

[Brian T]

If you already have a holster you want to use, what about buying the harness and rigging them up yourself? Doesn’t seem like you’d need a Kydex bender for that. That could be why Coffman declined. I could ask Mitch Rosen if he could make me a shoulder rig with a leather Bianchi belt holster and I bet he’d say no as well.

I could, but I was just trying to offer someone some business. I would figure as a small businessman, he might be inclined to take on work to make money, especially considering he wouldnt have much product overhead. I also thought that since he has already used other manufacturers products to make holsters mine wouldnt be any different or much of a stretch. Seems I was wrong on multie counts. Oh well.

I dont really like G Code holsters (which he carries....other company's products!), and while his holsters look fine, I dont like the thumbreak.

[BillSWPA]

The holster I ordered isnt really a duty a holster. It's more of an OWB concealment holster.

I doubt that a belt holster would make a good starting point for a shoulder holster.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JonInWA]

Update: p-f member O3RN was very kind in providing me his like-new Galco Miami Classic shoulder holster for Glocks, nominally for the compact G19-sized Glocks, but equally usable for full-sized G17/G22 pistols, for an extended test period.

My thoughts and conclusions: As some of you mentioned, the horizontal set-up was perfectly acceptable, both from a concealment and draw standpoint. It seems optimized for the compact Glocks, but the full-sized ones didn't excessively protrude or print when carried. Unless I was choosing a shoulder holster for a longer than compact-to-standard sized slide pistol, I would now likely select a horizontal carry set-up

While viable, I never really warmed up to the shoulder holster system for routine carry. While concealable and comfortable enough, drawing the gun successfully required both hands-one to draw the weapon out of the holster, and another to maintain a hold on the holster to stabilize it to facilitate the draw. Drawing a reload magazine was somewhat difficult and cumbersome; if I do ultimately decide to get a shoulder holster, I'll likely specify one with a single magazine pouch and carry any further reload magazine(s) on a belt pouch.

For non-concealed field carry, I much prefer a tanker-style shoulder holster, which I find to be inherently more stable and easy to draw from; but unless your concealment garment is sufficiently bulky and/or loose, concealment is a significant issue with a tanker.

The good news is that my lower back/nerve issues seem to have gone away, and my physical therapist is coming up with some good exercises to stave off recurrences (hopefully). If I do go the shoulder holster route, I will probably choose one for a striker-fired pistol, either for my HK VP40 or Glocks. I would probably go with one of El Paso Saddlery's offerings, but the Galco holster was pretty decent. I might also explore utilizing belt tie-down straps for both the holster and magazine pouch for better draw stability (particularly to facilitate one-handed drawing), or at least having removable ones as a scenario/clothing driven option.

O3RN, again, many thanks-your lending of the holster without any constraints or time limits was much appreciated-the p-f brotherhood is alive and well.

Best, Jon

[El Cid]

While concealable and comfortable enough, drawing the gun successfully required both hands-one to draw the weapon out of the holster, and another to maintain a hold on the holster to stabilize it to facilitate the draw. Drawing a reload magazine was somewhat difficult and cumbersome; if I do ultimately decide to get a shoulder holster, I'll likely specify one with a single magazine pouch and carry any further reload magazine(s) on a belt pouch.


I suspect the rig was too low and too loose. It’s possible the leather wasn’t broken in either. You should be able to draw one handed. The holster should be more in the armpit than many realize. It kills me to see our DoD wearing them so low the gun is almost at belt level.

The rig from Andrews Leather has a strap across the back that helps stabilize the rig without attaching it to your pants.

[BillSWPA]

I suspect the rig was too low and too loose. It’s possible the leather wasn’t broken in either. You should be able to draw one handed. The holster should be more in the armpit than many realize. It kills me to see our DoD wearing them so low the gun is almost at belt level.

The rig from Andrews Leather has a strap across the back that helps stabilize the rig without attaching it to your pants.

This was my thought as well when I read of the lack of stability. I never needed tie downs when wearing a horizontal shoulder holster. I also found that tie downs tend to pull the gun into a position wherein it is more likely to print when reaching upward.

Galco’s Miami Classic is one of my favorite shoulder holsters.



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[Duelist]

I suspect the rig was too low and too loose. It’s possible the leather wasn’t broken in either. You should be able to draw one handed. The holster should be more in the armpit than many realize. It kills me to see our DoD wearing them so low the gun is almost at belt level.

The rig from Andrews Leather has a strap across the back that helps stabilize the rig without attaching it to your pants.

I got a Miami Classic at about the same time as the one discussed. I had to add a hole to the holster side strap to get it to ride satisfactorily.

I've only carried a G26 in it. Works well, doesn't require two hands to draw.

[willie]

I tried four shoulder rig brands including Galco and Null. They did not work for me. Comfort and fit were my complaints. I gave away a lot of expensive leather.

[JonInWA]

El Cid and BillSWPA, thanks for the comments; while the holster definitely wasn't hanging down to belt level, there doubtlessly was some surplus space to where it could have been snugged up tighter against my armpit, which would have facilitated drawing. Breaking in probably would have helped as well, as it appeared to be virtually brand new (or O3RN may just take exceptionally good care of his kit).

Bill good advice against tie-down straps-thanks.

Best, Jon

[BillSWPA]

If the holster is right up against the armpit, the straps will pull the end of the grip outward. However, if it is no more than a few inches below the armpit, it will ride right up against your side and be quite stable. Finding the right balance may take some trial and error.



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[Tod-13]

I suspect the rig was too low and too loose. It’s possible the leather wasn’t broken in either. You should be able to draw one handed. The holster should be more in the armpit than many realize. It kills me to see our DoD wearing them so low the gun is almost at belt level.
<snip>

Where to wear the holster really depends on the gun, holster, and your body type. I'm 6'1" and 201-215lbs. Up in the armpit, anything as larger or larger than a G19 starts to rub my bicep raw. Carrying lower, which is more comfortable for me, I clamp the holster down with my left arm (if needed) and draw with my right. I prefer the vertical shoulder holsters that attach to the belt at the bottom.

Maybe if/when I get down to 180lbs things will change. :o

ETA: armpit to bicep

[Tod-13]

If the holster is right up against the armpit, the straps will pull the end of the grip outward. However, if it is no more than a few inches below the armpit, it will ride right up against your side and be quite stable. Finding the right balance may take some trial and error.

Definitely trial and error. For my body, I have it about 4-6 inches below the armpit, in the dip of the "pear shaped body".

[Tod-13]

My favorite setup is a vertical that attaches to the belt with the offside being an elastic strap or other system that wraps the off shoulder. This works for me driving, hiking around hunting, and on motorcycles.

I want to try out the Craft Holsters (Falco) Vertical Roto-Shoulder Holster.

[03RN]

Glad I could help you make an informed decision.

It's definitely a niche holster for me and doesn't get much use.

It is nice to know I can grab one harness and have a gun and 2 reloads no matter what I'm wearing.

[JonInWA]

Thread update: It's been an interesting year, medically-wise. Between the hip flexor issue and what turned out to be a quadruple hernia surgery, I did decide to go ahead and put my toe in the water with a shoulder holster. Many, many thanks to all the participants and suggestions on the thread here.

What did I end up with? This: https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/ra-shoulder-holster-s-92-bwn-bwn-lthr/e02226/

It's Beretta's proprietary vertical shoulder holster for my 92D. While I'm generally a bit wary of manufacturer's direct offerings (figuring that someone else likely gave them a low bid to re-label one of their middling-quality products), there were some features on this that I found interesting;

-The leather quality looked decent;

-Other user's reviews of this, and similar Beretta holsters was pretty impressive;

-I didn't come with a support-side magazine pouch set-up, which to me was a plus, and most manufacturers feel compelled to tack on a dual magazine pouch, which adds significant bulk and weight. When I experimented with O3RN's Galco loaner (thanks again, O3RN), I was pretty unimpressed with the attached-magazine-pouch-on-the-harness approach. In my (admittedly limited) trials and use, I found the dual pouch set-up to be bulky and somewhat difficult and cumbersome to actually extract a magazine out of it, especially single-handedly (with the gun in my strong hand while attempting). I am perfectly content with, and strongly preferential towards, spare reload magazines on a belt pouch(es). Currently, I'm placing the reload magazine(s)/pouch(s) on my weak side, behind the holster itself.

-The Beretta holster comes with a spider-web set-up, with the straps connected with a heavy leather back plate. The surgical elk/suede straps from the holster swivel at both the holster and back plate, and the underarm securing strap is adjustable, suitably heavy, and elastic. The bottom of the holster features a belt retention tab, fastened by a sturdy gripper (it also has cuts for a belt, so a belt can be either held by grippered tab, or can be threaded through the loop-it's a very well-thought out system/option).

-The thumb-break is nicely shaped, and probably better released via the support hand. On release, the holster opens slightly like a clamshell, facilitating the draw. I've used it for two days, and I'm impressed. It conceals the big 92D very effectively under a vest or jacket, although with a vest from the right position, the weak-side elastic retention strap may be somewhat visible through the vest's armhole. Since there's a thumb-break, and by intrinsic design, draws and re-holstering will be slower than with my normal kydex belt holsters, but are still quite operationally viable. Overall comfort is quite good as well, but I'll need to spend more time wearing it to decide if that's truly the case (or if I need to make any other adjustments-it literally fit me like a glove out of the box the way Beretta had it set-up).

-Price was also a factor, being about half of what other contenders were. I realize that was mostly because of there not being a magazine pouch attached, but I didn't want or need an attached magazine pouch, and this way I didn't have to pay for one. Not that the asking price was onerous, but Beretta was also kind enough to give me an additional 15% discount price as well when I tactfully asked, which was decent of them (particularly since these Beretta holsters are pretty much only available directly from the Beretta store, and not through other distributors, so any pricing flex is up to Beretta).

Why the Beretta as opposed to the HKs? Well, I'm launching into my Beretta 92D carry/duty/competition period, which goes from April through August. Why a vertical as opposed to horizontal orientation? Because I thing that with a large gun like the 92D the vertical works better, likely prints less, and is more comfortable. If I pursue a shoulder holster for my HK P30L/VP40, that one will likely be a horizontal set-up, though (although I'll concurrently inquire with El Paso Saddlery if they'll similarly construct one without an attached magazine pouch, or, at the very most, a single magazine pouch).

I'll keep the forum posted on my longer-term results with this. While I much prefer my normal IWB/OWB holsters, it looks like this shoulder rig is very viable, and of commendable quality. I don't know specifically which Italian holster maker makes it for Beretta, but to date I'm impressed.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

Other features that I appreciate on the rig is how the triggerguard is totally enclosed, but the magazine release is not at all-that way there's no interference with my release, particularly important in that I am using an extended release.

Best, Jon

[TGS]

Very cool, Jon.

I can see how the standard flapped mag pouches can be bulky. I'd encourage you to try horizontal friction-fit retention pouches, too. I bought the Galco Miami Classic II, which has the horizontal mag pouches. It's certainly not as quick/easy as a belt pouch, but it's definitely not a bear to use. It's fairly flat as well since it isn't flapped, so it conceals nicely.

With mine, I keep a mag in one pouch and a flashlight in the other. I most commonly used mine as an at-home rig since it's so comfortable when lounging around on a big soft couch. This way when I throw it on, if I have to go get the mail, take out the trash, whatever, I at least have the gun, spare mag, and a flashlight.

I'm interested in your experience that it took two hands to draw, though. With mine, I simply chicken-wing my left arm to clear it from the muzzle upon drawing, and just draw with my right hand. I only have to use my left hand to help with the re-holster. When drawing, the holster will come forward a few inches and then stop as the harness runs out of "travel", I guess you could call it.

Did you try wearing it tighter/higher up to mitigate how much it would travel before hitting resistance, allowing you to pull out the gun?

In the mean time, I'm glad to hear you found a workable solution with the Beretta rig.

[JonInWA]

Very cool, Jon.

I can see how the standard flapped mag pouches can be bulky. I'd encourage you to try horizontal friction-fit retention pouches, too. I bought the Galco Miami Classic II, which has the horizontal mag pouches. It's certainly not as quick/easy as a belt pouch, but it's definitely not a bear to use. It's fairly flat as well since it isn't flapped, so it conceals nicely.

With mine, I keep a mag in one pouch and a flashlight in the other. I most commonly used mine as an at-home rig since it's so comfortable when lounging around on a big soft couch. This way when I throw it on, if I have to go get the mail, take out the trash, whatever, I at least have the gun, spare mag, and a flashlight.

I'm interested in your experience that it took two hands to draw, though. With mine, I simply chicken-wing my left arm to clear it from the muzzle upon drawing, and just draw with my right hand. I only have to use my left hand to help with the re-holster. When drawing, the holster will come forward a few inches and then stop as the harness runs out of "travel", I guess you could call it.

Did you try wearing it tighter/higher up to mitigate how much it would travel before hitting resistance, allowing you to pull out the gun?

In the mean time, I'm glad to hear you found a workable solution with the Beretta rig.

I'll freely admit that I may not have done true justice to the Galco Miami Classic that O3RN was good enough to lend me; doubtlessly if I'd more judiciously adjusted the holster/strap set-up, one-handed draw would have been better facilitated. The rig was pretty much brand new, so some further use/break-in doubtlessly would have further facilitated things for the better as well.

The open magazine pouches that Galco uses in the Classic II look to be an improvement from both speed of draw and reduction of bulk. However, I still prefer using a belt-mounted pouch(s) for spare magazine stowage, and, in my case, with a double-stack magazine pistol, I normally find 1 spare magazine to be sufficient (However for duty use, I admit that I normally carry 2 reload magazines).

I thought that there might be an imbalance issue with he Beretta vertical rig, in that there were no spare magazines on the opposite side of the rig to counterbalance, but so far that doesn't seem to be the case, as the provision of the belt mounting at the bottom of the holster seems to provide nice stability (both from excessive movement and sway and balance-wise). If necessary, I can snug the securing elastic strap tighter for additional stability, although it seems fine set up the way it currently is.

Best, Jon

[Chuck Whitlock]

When/if you go looking for a horizontal rig, given your thoughts on off-side mag pouches, I recommend Sam Andrews' Solo rig.
I had one for a Kahr that was superb.

http://www.andrewsleather.com/traditional.htm

[JonInWA]

Thanks, Chuck. Interestingly, it looks very, very similar in construction philosophy to the Beretta rig. I'll definitely keep them in mind.

Best, Jon

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

5'8", 195 lbs, prefer vertical orientation.

Best, Jon

I have been looking at these lately for my P30L, they seem like you get the best of both worlds (vert./horiz.). Expensive though, too scared to pony up the dough to give it a try not having used anything like it before...

http://www.ritchieholsters.com/catalog/p-100025/tac-tactical-shoulder-holster-for-autos

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

The OP is relatively unimpressed with ankle holsters. I've had 3; a Galco leather, a Galco neoprene, (the Galcos were for Glock G26/G19s) and a Kramer horsehide (for a Smith & Wesson 640), and still have one-the Galco leather.

The Galco neoprene was pretty much a piece of junk-not well made or durable, and uncomfortable. The Kramer was fine up to a point, and very well made, but the all-steel 640 was somewhat uncomfortable to carry, so both the gun and the holster went away, hopefully to a more satisfied user.

The Galco leather is ok, but even with a light protective undersock still tends to chafe my leg in fairly short order. Do-able, even with a G19, but I'm not a huge fan, and would only go that route with it was situationally absolutely necessary.

Best, Jon

Though I have not tried them, Ritchie Leather makes one of the best ankle rigs out there by many's opinion. If I were so inclined as to try ankle carry I would start there, I would also look at Alessi as I believe they are very similar being Skip Ritchie worked with Lou Alessi for many years in the shop.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Thanks, Chuck. Interestingly, it looks very, very similar in construction philosophy to the Beretta rig. I'll definitely keep them in mind.

Best, Jon

Sam is good people. Call the shop with any questions and he will help you out.

[JonInWA]

Minor update: With increased use, I've found that some adjustment is desirable to stabilize the holstered gun close to my body, to prevent undesirable sway/printing. And that's with the holster toe secured to my belt.

Best, Jon