Best battle rifle under 1800$

[Trukinjp13]

Ideally I would want a Scar. But that is not in my budget. I am looking to spend around 2800$ with glass. Want either bushy tactical or trijicon 1-8x. Here is a few I am looking at. Will be used for hunting and to have a legit 308 in the stable. My savage 99 is not a gtw and I really do not like the idea of taking her out in the winters anymore. ( was a hand me down and is in perfect condition)

M&p 10 sport, uses sr25 stuff and s&w warranty (needs stock/grip/mlok)

Dsa fal (heavy/heard a few parts breakages)

M1a scout (heavy/not ar accurate)

Build a larue with their upper kit (not a keymod fan)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rob_s]

I am a huge FAL lover.

I am not a lover of dealing with the issues revolving around optics on a FAL, in particular magnified tube optics.

[LOKNLOD]

You say battle rifle and hunting.

Is it more important that it's a battle rifle, or for hunting? Not that they can't be lumped together, but I think I would prioritize different feature sets depending.

[DamonL]

The M1A and FAL do not have good scope mounting options.

Here is an old thread on the M&P 10 and hunting.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22915-Wife-s-go-to-Long-Gun

I think the Larue or M&P 10 would be the better options.

[HCM]

Ideally I would want a Scar. But that is not in my budget. I am looking to spend around 2800$ with glass. Want either bushy tactical or trijicon 1-8x. Here is a few I am looking at. Will be used for hunting and to have a legit 308 in the stable. My savage 99 is not a gtw and I really do not like the idea of taking her out in the winters anymore. ( was a hand me down and is in perfect condition)

M&p 10 sport, uses sr25 stuff and s&w warranty (needs stock/grip/mlok)

Dsa fal (heavy/heard a few parts breakages)

M1a scout (heavy/not ar accurate)

Build a larue with their upper kit (not a keymod fan)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

M1A and FAL have issues mounting optics and other issues, the M1A more that the FAL.

Best two options for a pure battle rifle are an AR-10 or a good quality G3 clone with a welded on optics rail. Of those two an AR-10 wins out due to it ability to be more of a precise / hunting type rifle.

The negative to the M&P 10 is it is even more proprietary than other AR-10s and S&W won’t sell the parts.

The Larue kit would be my pick of your four options.

Some other options-

Buy and Armalite DEF -10 for about $1k, add a free float rail from Troy, centurion or Wilson and an upgraded trigger of you choice for another $400 to $500.

Build an AR-10 (DPMS pattern) using an Aero M5 upper and Lower set. I’m leery of Aero’s complete rifles because the small parts they buy are not of commensurate quality with the items the produce themselves like receivers.

If this is more hunting rifle than battle rifle check out the DPMS GII , hunter model.

[Jay585]

You say battle rifle and hunting.

Is it more important that it's a battle rifle, or for hunting? Not that they can't be lumped together, but I think I would prioritize different feature sets depending.

Agreed. However, the Ruger Gunsite rifle does a pretty good job of blending the two, IMO.

I have a left handed one in .308 and I'm quite fond of it. Took off the scope rail (with true 1x scopes, I believe that the forward scope concept isn't as relevant as it once was), running irons for now. Since the LH version doesn't come with a synthetic stock variant, I may someday get a McMillan HTG stock to throw on it. If you're a righty, they have the OEM Ruger synthetic stock which should be G2G.

The only thing that could really improve the GSR is a Tikka Arctic-style rear sight for it. The OEM rear requires an allen key and adjusting sights is more guesswork than anything. No "clicks" or anything like that, just a 1/8th to 1/4 turn of the key and hoping that's correct.

I also have a SCAR and owned an FAL. I'm not sure on the value of the SCAR yet. I've had 1100 rounds through it, and while it's light and never malfunctioned (except for once, when I had my thumb over the ejection port) I'm not sure it's worth the $3k + price. edit: is it me, or has the SCAR 17 actually gone up in retail price?

If I were doing this again, I'd get a Springfield Armory imported paratrooper FAL (I think the model is SA 48 or SAR 4800) slap on some BLO-refinished wooden handguards and grips (in an effort to make it "softer" looking to the non-gun folks) and call it good. Grab a bunch of mags (I'd ask over on FALFiles for mag reccomendations), paint the front sight florescent red (https://www.amazon.com/FLUORESCENT-28915-Enamel-Paint-Bottle/dp/B004QJOCNC), and go run it. No optics, just irons. Similar to this guy here:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/mgm-content/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2014/12/16/3817134_01_fn_fal_para_640.jpg

[HCM]

Agreed. However, the Ruger Gunsite rifle does a pretty good job of blending the two, IMO.

I have a left handed one in .308 and I'm quite fond of it. Took off the scope rail (with true 1x scopes, I believe that the forward scope concept isn't as relevant as it once was), running irons for now. Since the LH version doesn't come with a synthetic stock variant, I may someday get a McMillan HTG stock to throw on it. If you're a righty, they have the OEM Ruger synthetic stock which should be G2G.

The only thing that could really improve the GSR is a Tikka Arctic-style rear sight for it. The OEM rear requires an allen key and adjusting sights is more guesswork than anything. No "clicks" or anything like that, just a 1/8th to 1/4 turn of the key and hoping that's correct.

I also have a SCAR and owned an FAL. I'm not sure on the value of the SCAR yet. I've had 1100 rounds through it, and while it's light and never malfunctioned (except for once, when I had my thumb over the ejection port) I'm not sure it's worth the $3k + price. edit: is it me, or has the SCAR 17 actually gone up in retail price?

If I were doing this again, I'd get a Springfield Armory imported paratrooper FAL (I think the model is SA 48 or SAR 4800) slap on some BLO-refinished wooden handguards and grips (in an effort to make it "softer" looking to the non-gun folks) and call it good. Grab a bunch of mags (I'd ask over on FALFiles for mag reccomendations), paint the front sight florescent red (https://www.amazon.com/FLUORESCENT-28915-Enamel-Paint-Bottle/dp/B004QJOCNC), and go run it. No optics, just irons. Similar to this guy here:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/mgm-content/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2014/12/16/3817134_01_fn_fal_para_640.jpg

The Ruger Gunsite is a nice rifle, particularly in the synthetic stock but no matter how much Jeff Cooper wanted to re-fight the Boer War in his head, bolt guns are obsolescent as “battle rifles.”

While not obsolescent, irons sights are a disadvantage vs optics on the battle rifle side and even more so on the hunting side. Positive ID is a real issue in hunting and magnified optics are a great help in that regard if you are hunting anywhere shots over 100 yards are an option.

Having tried both a Styer scout and vintage bolt guns in practical competition I agree 100% with the Intange TV guys on this subject.


http://youtu.be/pC4Gqvd7T1s

[Trukinjp13]

You say battle rifle and hunting.

Is it more important that it's a battle rifle, or for hunting? Not that they can't be lumped together, but I think I would prioritize different feature sets depending.

My hunting is inside 250 yards max for most everywhere I hunt. In my eyes a 16-18” rifle with 1-8 glass would work well enough for killing critters. I would rather it be setup more towards defensive purposes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Trukinjp13]

M1A and FAL have issues mounting optics and other issues, the M1A more that the FAL.

Best two options for a pure battle rifle are an AR-10 or a good quality G3 clone with a welded on optics rail. Of those two an AR-10 wins out due to it ability to be more of a precise / hunting type rifle.

The negative to the M&P 10 is it is even more proprietary than other AR-10s and S&W won’t sell the parts.

The Larue kit would be my pick of your four options.

Some other options-

Buy and Armalite DEF -10 for about $1k, add a free float rail from Troy, centurion or Wilson and an upgraded trigger of you choice for another $400 to $500.

Build an AR-10 (DPMS pattern) using an Aero M5 upper and Lower set. I’m leery of Aero’s complete rifles because the small parts they buy are not of commensurate quality with the items the produce themselves like receivers.

If this is more hunting rifle than battle rifle check out the DPMS GII , hunter model.

Thank you, the m&p price point was attractive. I and accuracy seems pretty good. I do understand the lower being proprietary. Is the bcg also m&p proprietary?

My ar is a aero based rifle. I agree on their small parts and full builds. I used their upper and lower. I had thought about building a 308 ar from them as well. Their machining is awesome for the price point and often come on sale.

I will look into the armalite. I want a reliable, fairly accurate rifle. The fal and the m1a have too many faults for what I am looking to get into. Thanks guys.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jay585]

HCM, I agree 100%. I'm thinking of the OP as more of a civilian who is unlikely to be in a situation requiring the use of an semi-auto battle rifle. And if Michigan is as I picture (thickly wooded) iron sights may not be as huge a disadvantage like it could be in say... eastern Montana. In my case a deer hunting rifle in southern Idaho would need a good optic, however a iron-sighted deer rifle in the panhandle would do quite well.

GSR is cheaper than the alternatives (especially if you find one used on gunbroker - I got mine for about $675) so there's more more money for optics, ammo, training, etc. It'd do a fine job as a ranch rifle and hunting rifle and I would not be "embarrassed" to use it at a shooting competition. All in all, it's another option to consider more than a recommendation.

[HCM]

HCM, I agree 100%. I'm thinking of the OP as more of a civilian who is unlikely to be in a situation requiring the use of an semi-auto battle rifle. And if Michigan is as I picture (thickly wooded) iron sights may not be as huge a disadvantage like it could be in say... eastern Montana. In my case a deer hunting rifle in southern Idaho would need a good optic, however a iron-sighted deer rifle in the panhandle would do quite well.

GSR is cheaper than the alternatives (especially if you find one used on gunbroker - I got mine for about $675) so there's more more money for optics, ammo, training, etc. It'd do a fine job as a ranch rifle and hunting rifle and I would not be "embarrassed" to use it at a shooting competition. All in all, it's another option to consider more than a recommendation.

The Ruger is a great ranch / hunting rifle but when it comes to the Battle / fighting side of the equation bolt guns are obsolete. Period. As noted have run a Styer scout, an 03A3 and a Kar 98 in 2 gun type competition just for my own education. It not a matter of being embarrassed, it is simply that bolt guns are obsolete for two way range / gun fighting.

On an unrelated note, for the uses where a scout / practical rifle make sense I’m thinking of switching from the Styer to a GSR synthetic simply for the ability to run a suppressor or muzzle break. Mostly suppressor.

[OlongJohnson]

Mega Arms machining and attention to detail beats Aero quality up and down all day. I haven't read up on their .308 stuff, but I'd certainly check it out if I was in that market.

[ranger]

Would you consider a compromise and try an AR15 size weapon in 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel?

[PearTree]

Mega Arms machining and attention to detail beats Aero quality up and down all day. I haven't read up on their .308 stuff, but I'd certainly check it out if I was in that market.Mega is no longer. Zev bought them and completely gutted them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

Would you consider a compromise and try an AR15 size weapon in 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel?

Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180702/a9ae096513e081625ebdd2a9ca8ba5eb.jpg

[Trukinjp13]

Would you consider a compromise and try an AR15 size weapon in 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel?

I thought about a 6.5 grendel. I also like the long range potential but in reality I would not stretch it out. The weight and size is a big plus also.

I like 308 and have been shooting it for a long time. I already own one and have some ammo stocked. And truthfully I have always wanted a 308 in a semi auto.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HCM]

Mega is no longer. Zev bought them and completely gutted them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I know Zev bought them but this is the first I’ve heard of Mega being “gutted”. Seems like killing the go,den goose.

[spelingmastir]

The Larue upper kit is an insane deal. Especially since you are looking for a battle rifle, this seems like the obvious way to go.

[schüler]

The LMT LM8MWS is probably the closest "battle" option pricewise but that'll eat your whole budget for rifle+optic. They tend to be overgassed compared to others. The older, original MWS might be a few to several hundred cheaper but they are pigs at 11lbs+.

I like the S&W and DPMS G2 options mentioned by HCM. Affordable, slightly lighter options. The G2 has matured a bit.

The Larue combo would be my personal pick at your price. Mainly for reasonable accuracy and quality potential. You might want to research Larue chamber dimensions, they may not be "battle" spec.

[PearTree]

I know Zev bought them but this is the first I’ve heard of Mega being “gutted”. Seems like killing the go,den goose.Okay maybe gutted was the wrong word. Significantly decreased product offerings. Now it's only 4 different receiver sets, a couple upper receiver groups, and a few complete rifles. All with the prices increased from what they were with mega.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[RevolverRob]

If I had to have a .308 semi - I’d really want a FAL. But in your case the need for optics mounting out weighs everything else. I would buy an AR10 of some type and be done. Depending on what you want - a M&P10 may work just fine. If you want to get fancy, a DPMS-pattern lower, with a JP side-charging upper. Barrel it to your specs.

[Clusterfrack]

I’ve seen a bunch of folks try to keep AR15s and AR10s running in rain, mud, and dust at precision rifle matches. JP rifles (and any gun with JP anything in it) had by far the most problems. Even under ideal conditions.

I’d go with LaRue, GAP, or Seekins if your budget allows.

[Trukinjp13]

I have narrowed it down to a larue build or s&w I believe.

The larue has very good accuracy and should be reliable for me. I dislike the keymod, but I could deal with it I guess. Debating on the value of having it pre built. I do like that they test fire. Save the hassle if something is out of spec. But I will be pinning a gas block on her.

The s&w has a good starting price and has mid length gas system. They seem to be reliable and accurate. Also comes with s&w warranty. I can install a mlok 15” handguard on her with adjustable gas block if need be. But I prefer to pin the gas block on, idk if an adjustable can be pinned.

Thank you for your help. I will not be going to battle everyday nor probably put 20k rounds through it. But I shoot as much as I can and just like my ar-15 I want a reliable rifle that can do what I need it to, when I need it to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Old Man Winter]

Did you get a chance to check out the Armalite? DEF-10 is a hell of value and comes with one of the best bolt groups. If you want to build or upgrade you have tons of options because all but one component can use the DPMS pattern parts.

[Trukinjp13]

Did you get a chance to check out the Armalite? DEF-10 is a hell of value and comes with one of the best bolt groups. If you want to build or upgrade you have tons of options because all but one component can use the DPMS pattern parts.

I looked at them but I am confused on gas system. I thought they used to be mid length but now they are listed as carbine length? They look solid but I got conflicting answers on gas system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

I’d get a mid or rifle length gas system.

My opinion: LaRue / Keymod >> S&W / MLok

[Old Man Winter]

I looked at them but I am confused on gas system. I thought they used to be mid length but now they are listed as carbine length? They look solid but I got conflicting answers on gas system.

It's a bit confusing as Armalite calls it carbine length but it's carbine length in name only. I no longer have the parts but the gas tube was very close in size to the intermediate length on some of my 556 rifles.

[Trukinjp13]

It's a bit confusing as Armalite calls it carbine length but it's carbine length in name only. I no longer have the parts but the gas tube was very close in size to the intermediate length on some of my 556 rifles.

Thank you, I much prefer a mid-length gas system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ASH556]

I had an M&P10 a few years back. I never found it to be enough for anything, but maybe I wanted too much out of it. In other words, not accurate enough to be a precision gun. Not compact enough to use as a carbine. Not reliable enough with a suppressor (not to mention massive shift due to the barrel profile).

If you google around you can find some detailed pics and reports on my setup. I wouldn't consider it to be "duty" rated and from a hunting perspective, it's bigger, and more expensive than a bolt gun.

Honestly, for my needs, I determined that a 5.56 with good ammo (64gr Gold dots in my case) filled all the roles I thought I needed a battle rifle for. YMMV.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29251-The-One

[JRB]

I have a Troy AR-308 that I am very happy with. It's not as well known as its weird pump-action cousin but it comes out of the box around $1100-1200 already set up with pile of Troy stuff including nice Troy iron sights and the Troy alpha rail.
I'm currently around 300 rounds through it with Pmags, zero issues. I've mostly run a bunch of milsurp FNM and Czech surplus through it and while the FNM is dirty as hell I haven't had any reliability problems, even with 25 round mag dumps as fast as I could, but I've only done a couple of those.

Hornady TAP 168grn had no problems shooting sub MOA 3 round groups at 100yrds, but 5 round groups tended to produce at least one flyer that opened it up to ~1.75" or so. Might be me, might be the so-so stock trigger, might be the rifle itself, might be that particular ammo since it's a 1:11 twist, but I'm leaning toward it being me.
Next time I take the rifle out I'm planning on bringing some quality 150grn ammo just to see if it likes the lighter bullets a bit more.

I'd take a SCAR or MR762 over it, no question, but for the money spent I'm very happy with it.

[Trukinjp13]

I had an M&P10 a few years back. I never found it to be enough for anything, but maybe I wanted too much out of it. In other words, not accurate enough to be a precision gun. Not compact enough to use as a carbine. Not reliable enough with a suppressor (not to mention massive shift due to the barrel profile).

If you google around you can find some detailed pics and reports on my setup. I wouldn't consider it to be "duty" rated and from a hunting perspective, it's bigger, and more expensive than a bolt gun.

Honestly, for my needs, I determined that a 5.56 with good ammo (64gr Gold dots in my case) filled all the roles I thought I needed a battle rifle for. YMMV.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29251-The-One

5.56 is no go in my state for hunting. I have been using 75gr gold dots and it hits hard for what it is. Destroyed a couple groundhogs with her. Thank you for the m&p info. Seems to be the larue might be my decision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duelist]

5.56 is no go in my state for hunting. I have been using 75gr gold dots and it hits hard for what it is. Destroyed a couple groundhogs with her. Thank you for the m&p info. Seems to be the larue might be my decision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In that case, 6.8x43 SPCII or 6.5 Grendel would be the way I would go. More compact, lighter receiver. Effective hunting cartridges at normal deer ranges, both have been used with success in elk (though that wouldn’t be my first choice), and the Grendel has a following for long range target shooting.

We have a 16” 6.8. Works.

[Clusterfrack]

I have to say, I love my 6.5 Grendel. It's got .308 ballistics in an AR-15 package. Easy reloading, and plenty of factory ammo. Even cheap Wolf steel case for 20/$5. Very minimal recoil. And since it's low pressure it has a basically unlimited barrel life.

[psalms144.1]

I have to say, I love my 6.5 Grendel. It's got .308 ballistics in an AR-15 package. Easy reloading, and plenty of factory ammo. Even cheap Wolf steel case for 20/$5. Very minimal recoil. And since it's low pressure it has a basically unlimited barrel life.I may be mistaken, and I'm out of my lane commenting on rifle issues that aren't related to issued weapons, but I thought the 6.5G had reliability issues due to it's overall shape/profile? I thought I remembered reading that it requires a very specific magazine design to work well - or has that changed?

[Clusterfrack]

It requires a 6.5G magazine, but with quality mags like the eLander from AA, reliability isn’t an issue. I have had zero malfunctions with mine.

[zeleny]

The M1A and FAL do not have good scope mounting options.The LRB M25 can (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/775849046) be had (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/776493273) within the OP’s budget.

[RevolverRob]

Our own P.E. Kelley has reviewed the Savage MSR-10 - which is one of the guns I'd be very interested in this price bracket (in fact it is one of the guns I'm very interested in, because 6.5CM availability).

[Trukinjp13]

Our own P.E. Kelley has reviewed the Savage MSR-10 - which is one of the guns I'd be very interested in this price bracket (in fact it is one of the guns I'm very interested in, because 6.5CM availability).

I looked at the savage. It seems really solid for the price point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Trukinjp13]

Okay, I believe for now I am going to put a lpv on my ar and use that for everything but hunting. I will have to just use my savage 99 for hunting. I thought a lot about what everyone has said and the 5.56 will take care of a lot of my needs. But I need to put some good glass on it. Then in the future when I can afford the 308 that I really want I can transfer glass to it. Thanks again!

I am looking at.

Vortex razor 2e
Uso 1-6 svs
Bushnell elite 1-6.5

That will greatly improve the use of my ar and should make for a very reliable scope.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DamonL]

The LRB M25 can (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/775849046) be had (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/776493273) within the OP’s budget.

Even with the integral bases, the scope is very high above the iron sights.

[HCM]

Even with the integral bases, the scope is very high above the iron sights.

True, and M1A /M14’s have several other negatives as well.

[zeleny]

Even with the integral bases, the scope is very high above the iron sights.Works for me. (https://goo.gl/photos/P3LFcZaUoUjzNvfn8)
27851

[zeleny]

True, and M1A /M14’s have several other negatives as well.Please name a weapon free of negatives.

[Trukinjp13]

Please name a weapon free of negatives.

My interpretation of this. There are no weapons without negatives. But there are weapons that have a far longer CON to PRO list. So you may have one or two negatives with one and a lot with another. We all have to judge for ourselves what the pros and cons of each is for our own personal use.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HCM]

Please name a weapon free of negatives.


None but M14 has the more negatives than it’s contemporaries the FAL and the G3, all three of which are inferior to curremt AR-10s or the SCAR.

Despite the myth of the M14, there are legitimate reasons the M14 had the shortest service life of an U.S. Service rifle.

Besides being unsuited to optics, the M14 is, essentially, an upside down AK. Rack grade M14s are capable of mechanical accuracy in the 3 to 6 MOA Range. You can do a variety of voodo and chicken bone fixes to get the gun to shoot better but you have to take it out of the stock to maintain the gun and every time you take it out of the stock you are degrading the improved accuracy.

The M14 is also prone to malfunctions if the mag is rested on anything, something which was subseqntly mis-attributed to the M16.

For all it’s failings, the M14 is an actual battle rifle and a far better choice for fighting than a bolt or lever gun.

[ranger]

Works for me. (https://goo.gl/photos/P3LFcZaUoUjzNvfn8)
27851

How much does that weigh? "battle rifle" implies that it will be carried a whole lot more than it will be shot.

[zeleny]

How much does that weigh? "battle rifle" implies that it will be carried a whole lot more than it will be shot.About 20 pounds as shown. Not quite as much as this one, now that it wears US Optics’ MST-100 backed up by Trijicon RMR. And that’s before adding a bipod up front and a monopod in the back.

Heavy metal rules the roost.
27859

[RevolverRob]

Conceptually, I think "battle rifle" is a LARPing term, best suited to imaginary war games. In the book series I am writing, the protagonist, a French Foreign Legion Officer - carries a MAS 49/56 MSE with a scope/off-set mount red-dot and a Manurhin MR73 - because fiction...my character can hump a billion pounds if he needs to. Also, everything that he ships appears magically where it is supposed to be, he never has logistical problems that actually exist.

Meanwhile, back in reality, if I was shipping out tomorrow for all points Syria please give me an Colt 6940 with an LPV and light and as many magazines as I can stuff into my kit OR an Arsenal or Valmet AK side-folder with an Aimpoint, flashlight, and as many magazines as I can fit into my kit.

[HCM]

Conceptually, I think "battle rifle" is a LARPing term, best suited to imaginary war games. In the book series I am writing, the protagonist, a French Foreign Legion Officer - carries a MAS 49/56 MSE with a scope/off-set mount red-dot and a Manurhin MR73 - because fiction...my character can hump a billion pounds if he needs to. Also, everything that he ships appears magically where it is supposed to be, he never has logistical problems that actually exist.

Meanwhile, back in reality, if I was shipping out tomorrow for all points Syria please give me an Colt 6940 with an LPV and light and as many magazines as I can stuff into my kit OR an Arsenal or Valmet AK side-folder with an Aimpoint, flashlight, and as many magazines as I can fit into my kit.

7.62 nato rifles battle rifles are niche items.

Shooting through light cover, shooting at longer ranges 300 to 600/800 with enough ass to do damage and doing double duty vs large animals. There may be more but that is a start.

Other wise, for general purpose - yeah 5.56 all day.

[Clusterfrack]

20 pounds??? Dude. My 6.5G is under 8 lbs with a scope and suppressor.

[RevolverRob]

7.62 nato rifles battle rifles are niche items.

Shooting through light cover, shooting at longer ranges 300 to 600/800 with enough ass to do damage and doing double duty vs large animals. There may be more but that is a start.

Other wise, for general purpose - yeah 5.56 all day.

Hey, I'll go one more....7.62 NATO 'battle rifles' are fun to shoot. A short barrel FAL? Is like you're Thor wielding Mjolnir...it's damn fun and I'm all for that as an excuse to own one.

I tend to think of high volume hog hunting as being one of the few places where we regularly see conditions that favor 'battle' rifles over other platforms here at home. And even there, a 6.5G, 6.8SPC, or .300BLK will tend to do what is needed.

I agree that 7.62 is becoming more of a "niche" round. Particularly, now that we have 6.5G and 6.5CM, we're seeing the efficacy of the 6.5mm bullet profile at longer ranges from the Creedmoor, and at shorter ranges in the Grendel - there isn't much that 7.62 does better...

[jellydonut]

These days they are there so that you have one to shoot that plentiful .308 ammunition, and because they're cool.

There's nothing an AR10 in 6.5 Creedmoor won't do better, other than being 1960s cool.

[Trukinjp13]

Everything has a term now a days that butt hurts someone. But usually they also help someone understand what you are saying. Most seem to agree what the term battle rifle represents. I used it to try and simplify what I was looking for. A large caliber semi auto rifle, that is going to be carried quite a bit. Higher in capacity and shorter in barrel. I am not pretending to be or to do anything.

I prefer to have the best tool available. Or the most useful to my given circumstances. After listening to a lot of the people here I have realized that I can use what I have for most of my needs.

You could say most all civvies are larping. If you want to be that guy. What are the chances I need to carry a reload. Or a gun that carries more then 10 rounds. Needing a rifle for home defense. But being prepared is never a bad thing. I would rather own too many tools for my job and not need them, then need a tool when it matters. So my toolbox has multiples sometimes.

Does my car need 600hp? Does my truck need 37s? Does my wife have to look better than yours? Nope. But I like it and I am still a free man. So I am going to use the shit out of what was given to me. My great grand daddy came here from France a long time a go for a reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DpdG]

Any thoughts on a G3 with a welded pic rail for optics and some Spuhr goodies? Their stock and hand guards are interesting, if expensive, but seem to rectify some of the traditional ergonomic complaints. Having said that, I’ve got 0 rounds through any G3 pattern rifles and limited time on a MP5.

[HCM]

Any thoughts on a G3 with a welded pic rail for optics and some Spuhr goodies? Their stock and hand guards are interesting, if expensive, but seem to rectify some of the traditional ergonomic complaints. Having said that, I’ve got 0 rounds through any G3 pattern rifles and limited time on a MP5.

It’s a good option. The welded pic rail a the real game changer.

[psalms144.1]

Any thoughts on a G3 with a welded pic rail for optics and some Spuhr goodies? Their stock and hand guards are interesting, if expensive, but seem to rectify some of the traditional ergonomic complaints. Having said that, I’ve got 0 rounds through any G3 pattern rifles and limited time on a MP5.My very first personally owned firearm was a HK91. It was AWESOME. Heavy, kicked like a mule, but shot well (in the day, I used to be able to iron sight E-type silhouettes with it out to 800 meters - love the diopter sights!)

That said, if I was looking to go old-school retro 7.62 "battle rifle", I'd have to go with the FAL. DSA makes a pic-rail upper that would likely be plenty OK for mounting magnified optics.

Having said all that, I can't imagine what either could do that a well-built AR10 pattern rifle that takes PMags doesn't...

[zeleny]

20 pounds??? Dude. My 6.5G is under 8 lbs with a scope and suppressor.I need the exercise. Your needs are your business.

[zeleny]

I prefer to have the best tool available.The best tool available? That would be the SIG PE57 fed with 7.5x55mm GP11 ammo. And you can get one for CHF 630 (https://www.aats-shop.ch/shop/occasionen/occasion-sturmgewehr-sig-stgw-57-kaliber-7-5x55mm-gw-pat-11-zustand-1/).

[Croesus]

I have owned M1As, FALs, Valmets and a Galil over the years. All had their strengths. I currently only have a HK91 -- the same one for the last 20 yrs.

There are an abundance of G3 parts and mags available at very reasonable prices. The original HK scope mounting system is not ideal, but it works acceptably for me. If you can locate an acceptable HK91 clone in your price range, I think it would meet your needs. Five round "hunting" magazines are available from a few sources.

In S. Texas, the HK91 w/ a S&B short dot, HK 30mm mount, has proven to be a very good hog and deer rifle. Spuhr makes several excellent "upgrades" should you desire.

[TheRoland]

I need the exercise. Your needs are your business.

Are you sure about that weight, though? That's how much an LMG with a belt weighs.

[overton]

Any opinions on the SIG716?

[HCM]

Any opinions on the SIG716?

Heavy, short rail with limited replacement options, some have reported accuracy issues.

For the $ I’d likely buy a SW or Armalite or kick up in price and buy a used LMT.

[OlongJohnson]

It's probably not perfectly aligned with what the OP was thinking, but the Benelli R1 in .30-06 might be interesting. Not a lot of data on how reliable it would be for "battle," but eventually George will buy one and carry it around AK for us. The ten-round mags make it look pregnant and are expensive, but it's probably pretty good overall. Maybe even grizzly-reliable. It's also not an "assault rifle" under any U.S.-based ban I've bothered to pay attention to so far.

On Mega Arms, it looks like JSE Surplus is carrying on the "Gator" forged receiver line as a private label. They had the best price when they were marked Mega, and they say their own-branded parts are now made by Mega. Having enough experience with business deals like that, it's fully believable. To me, the "Gator" was the way to go for a build-your-own. Nothing proprietary, just outstanding quality.

[JonInWA]

I'll throw out an outlier for consideration: CZ 527 Carbine, in 7.62 x 39. Exceptionally accurate, extremely well made, very nice handling, 5 round steel detachable box magazine (relatively inexpensive at around $40). 7.62 x 39 is the ballistic equivalent of 30-30, and there are very credible cartridges available quite inexpensively (Wolf Polycoat 123 gr) and Hornady Black SST 123 gr for a higher grade hunting cartridge.

The antithesis of the Timmy Tactical approach...

Best, Jon

[DamonL]

Some old AR 10 posts I found doing some research.


https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?30079-AR-10-Suggestions

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5683-308-Semi-Auto-Rifle&highlight=Larue

I had an old SR25 many years ago. You guys are making me think I should get back into an AR 10.

[JonInWA]

If, and this is a big if, magazine restrictions or some type of an AR ban go into effect, an old-school, well-built, vetted bolt rifle might see a bit of a resurgance. Built for extreme environmental possibilities, significantly soldier-proofed, easy to clean, lubricate and maintain. Preferably with decent 10 round magazines, which I think is a reasonable compromise between on-board capacity and possessing a decent lower profile. Yes, if you're on a military op, an AR is certainly desirable for putting out an immediate and somewhat sustainable base of suppressive fire, but how many of us realistically are involved in that scenario?

An accurate rifle, in a credible cartridge, capable of good (or excellent) performance, viable as a general purpose, multi-role/target rifle throughout a reasonable spectrum of ranges while maintaining sufficient effective terminal power might have a lot to offer.

I'm currently taking a hard and serious look at a Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1 or 2, and Tikka's T3X Arctic (an under-the-radar truly vetted organizationally deployed scout rifle-but with apparently limited availability and expensive magazines, at $100 'Murrican at a crack....)(and was the exact rifle choosen to replace the Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1 after testing/competition for Canada's Ranger organization).

But in the meantime, my CZ527 is going nowhere. :-)

Best, Jon

[MK11]

I've said it before but IMO the Ruger GSR is the modern Jungle Carbine. Quick, handy, powerful, multiple optic mounting options, 3, 5 or 10 round magazines and produced by a company known for fixing stuff if it needs fixing.

I bought one a few years ago when I thought a ban was coming. Since then the ARs have continued to multiply in my safe but I'm still glad I got the GSR.

[JonInWA]

I've said it before but IMO the Ruger GSR is the modern Jungle Carbine. Quick, handy, powerful, multiple optic mounting options, 3, 5 or 10 round magazines and produced by a company known for fixing stuff if it needs fixing.

I bought one a few years ago when I thought a ban was coming. Since then the ARs have continued to multiply in my safe but I'm still glad I got the GSR.

And it doesn't have the notorious floating zero the Jungle Carbines were notorious for...(which is one of the reasons in my Enfield quest that I'm restricting myself to No 4 Mk 1 and 2...) and the Tikka T3X Arctic)

The only things I don't like on the Ruger GSR is the physical size of their 10 round magazines, and, if I remember correctly, the trigger guard is plastic/polymer (in fairness, that's probably not a big deal).

Best, Jon

[Half Moon]

And it doesn't have the notorious floating zero the Jungle Carbines were notorious for...(which is one of the reasons in my Enfield quest that I'm restricting myself to No 4 Mk 1 and 2...) and the Tikka T3X Arctic)

The only things I don't like on the Ruger GSR is the physical size of their 10 round magazines, and, if I remember correctly, the trigger guard is plastic/polymer (in fairness, that's probably not a big deal).

Best, Jon

Well if arctic rifles are on the table, there's always the other Enfield, US Model 1917 :-) Still fascinated that they soldier on with Denmark's Sirius Patrol (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Dog_Sled_Patrol)...

[HCM]

Any opinions on the SIG716?

The original Piston 716 you asked about was meh, however the new 716i Tread is a good value Direct Impingement AR-10, it’s essentially the same rifle recently adopted in quantity by the Indian Army.

[MK11]

The only things I don't like on the Ruger GSR is the physical size of their 10 round magazines, and, if I remember correctly, the trigger guard is plastic/polymer (in fairness, that's probably not a big deal). Best, Jon

Definitely true of the steel factory 10-rounders. Ridiculously huge, heavy and worse, rough feeding.

72251

Ruger made polymer versions that have a much smaller footprint (and feed better, too). I can't find the polymer mags anywhere and even saw one site say they were discontinued but AICS-pattern mags like Magpuls work as well.

72252

[Borderland]

Hey, I'll go one more....7.62 NATO 'battle rifles' are fun to shoot. A short barrel FAL? Is like you're Thor wielding Mjolnir...it's damn fun and I'm all for that as an excuse to own one.

I tend to think of high volume hog hunting as being one of the few places where we regularly see conditions that favor 'battle' rifles over other platforms here at home. And even there, a 6.5G, 6.8SPC, or .300BLK will tend to do what is needed.

I agree that 7.62 is becoming more of a "niche" round. Particularly, now that we have 6.5G and 6.5CM, we're seeing the efficacy of the 6.5mm bullet profile at longer ranges from the Creedmoor, and at shorter ranges in the Grendel - there isn't much that 7.62 does better...

It's less than a "niche" as a battle rifle cartridge. I would say it's obsolete in that capacity. If I wanted an AR platform rifle that had to be something more than .223, I would choose a 300 BLK. Although it isn't a 250 yd deer rifle a person can limit the range to 150 yds. Most whitetail are killed within that range anyway. Lots of bow hunters take deer within 50 yards.

[Borderland]

If, and this is a big if, magazine restrictions or some type of an AR ban go into effect, an old-school, well-built, vetted bolt rifle might see a bit of a resurgance. Built for extreme environmental possibilities, significantly soldier-proofed, easy to clean, lubricate and maintain. Preferably with decent 10 round magazines, which I think is a reasonable compromise between on-board capacity and possessing a decent lower profile. Yes, if you're on a military op, an AR is certainly desirable for putting out an immediate and somewhat sustainable base of suppressive fire, but how many of us realistically are involved in that scenario?

An accurate rifle, in a credible cartridge, capable of good (or excellent) performance, viable as a general purpose, multi-role/target rifle throughout a reasonable spectrum of ranges while maintaining sufficient effective terminal power might have a lot to offer.

I'm currently taking a hard and serious look at a Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1 or 2, and Tikka's T3X Arctic (an under-the-radar truly vetted organizationally deployed scout rifle-but with apparently limited availability and expensive magazines, at $100 'Murrican at a crack....)(and was the exact rifle choosen to replace the Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1 after testing/competition for Canada's Ranger organization).

But in the meantime, my CZ527 is going nowhere. :-)

Best, Jon

Realistically, a bolt carbine is probably going to be all any civilian will ever need.

Trying to combine a "battle" rifle and "hunting" rifle really muddies up the water.

[fatdog]

I bought the Savage 110 version of their scout rifle a year ago, it was a real bargain. Takes AICS compatible mags, nice iron sights, their accutrigger and their new modular adjustable stock system. I am sure the Ruger is just as good a rifle, but there is no real defect in my Savage for the money.

[Trigger]

Tikka T3x, pick your favorite caliber. Put it in a KRG Bravo stock. Done. Well under $1800.

For accurate shooting, I can run a bolt gun almost as fast as I can shoot an AR-10. For blasting, not so much. (But I don’t do that very much, either)

[JonInWA]

The Ruger Gunsite is a nice rifle, particularly in the synthetic stock but no matter how much Jeff Cooper wanted to re-fight the Boer War in his head, bolt guns are obsolescent as “battle rifles.”

While not obsolescent, irons sights are a disadvantage vs optics on the battle rifle side and even more so on the hunting side. Positive ID is a real issue in hunting and magnified optics are a great help in that regard if you are hunting anywhere shots over 100 yards are an option.

Having tried both a Styer scout and vintage bolt guns in practical competition I agree 100% with the Intange TV guys on this subject.


http://youtu.be/pC4Gqvd7T1s

I finally had an uninterrupted chance to see the video-and I totally agree with their conclusions, which basically are that a semi-automatic, lighter cartridge (lower recoiling), larger capacity platform makes for a better battle rifle.

However, what we may be forced to deal with are if in fact platform and/or magazine constraints come into effect. In that case, my preference would be towards a semi-automatic within capacity restraints, or a medium-to-larger capacity bolt action rifle.

Other factors perhaps worthy of consideration could be durability, maintainability, ease of use, and inherent resistance to environmental factors inhubiting operastions.

Best, Jon

[UNK]

What about the Barrett 308 AR?

https://barrett.net/products/firearms/rec10/

[Phaedrus]

The REC10 looks sweet but it's $1000 over the OP's stated price goal.

[HCM]

I’ll re-iterate, scout rifles are cool and useful, I’ve had one since the late 90s and prefer them over lever guns for a “ranch” gun, but in the modem era where fighting guns are semi or full auto they are not viable “Battle Rifles.”

They’re hunting rifles that could be used for personal defense if necessary.

Everyone thinks they are Simo Häyhä. 1) You’re not; 2) he got many of his kills with a sub machine gun.

[HCM]

Savage is actually building some very nice (and under rated) AR’s.

The Savage MSR-10 meets the OP’s price ceiling.

[rcbusmc24]

I had one of these for a bit, I ended up selling it off to a buddy who wanted it for hunting back home but I put several hundred (admittedly not a lot) rounds of various milsurp .308 and 7.62x51 ammo through it and did not have any accuracy issues or performance problems. There are some proprietary parts on it, to include the charging handle, which is annoying, but not insurmountable. Honestly out of the box the gun is pretty set up for just adding a optic and light of your choice and starting to shoot. During the time that I had it I ran it as a battle rifle with a Aimpoint Comp M4 and a light and also as a DMR with a Vortex Razor mounted. It performed well at both of those roles. Best thing- price is around 1500 or so.... Typically I'm loath to recommend Sig to anyone but their long guns seem to be pretty good anymore

72693

[Rex G]

Revisiting this thread, because road rage is such a thing, now. I have been followed, twice, recently, by angry drivers, in vehicles which could easily outrun my V6 Tundra, so, “running away” was not an option. The plan, if one persists in following, is to calmly get off the road, and calmy park near solid cover, or, broken terrain that would favor The Prepared, but, then what? The G3 clone, perhaps with Spuhr furniture, is starting to look like a good idea, yet again.

Yes, of course, the Benelli, loaded with 12 gauge Tru-Ball Penetrators, is the answer, but, this is the Rifles and Carbines section of the forums. ;)

Edited to add: Yes, I know, I would probably have to solve the problem with a big pistol, because I do not “keep” a long gun in the truck.

[DDTSGM]

Revisiting this thread, because road rage is such a thing, now. I have been followed, twice, recently, by angry drivers, in vehicles which could easily outrun my V6 Tundra, so, “running away” was not an option. The plan, if one persists in following, is to calmly get off the road, and calmy park near solid cover, or, broken terrain that would favor The Prepared, but, then what? The G3 clone, perhaps with Spuhr furniture, is starting to look like a good idea, yet again.

Yes, of course, the Benelli, loaded with 12 gauge Tru-Ball Penetrators, is the answer, but, this is the Rifles and Carbines section of the forums. ;)

Edited to add: Yes, I know, I would probably have to solve the problem with a big pistol, because I do not “keep” a long gun in the truck.

Rex, I'd suggest continuing to drive in the direction of the nearest LE agency until they do something beyond following you. I wouldn't, however, drive to my neighborhood with them following me. Heck, drive to the ER or a fire department.

I'm not sure how sympathetic a jury would be to a guy who 'calmly got off the road, calmly parked near cover' after the gunfight. I'm sure the prosecutor/plaintiffs attorney would paint that as you challenging poor Mr. X, who only honked at you, to a fight.

[JCN]

Revisiting this thread, because road rage is such a thing, now. I have been followed, twice, recently, by angry drivers

Is there something different you could do in your driving habits?

[Lex Luthier]

Savage is actually building some very nice (and under rated) AR’s.

The Savage MSR-10 meets the OP’s price ceiling.

I'd like to hear your impressions of the Savage rifles, both 5.56 and 7.62x51, if you would care to share.

[Rex G]

Is there something different you could do in your driving habits?

Well, I could get myself a helicopter. ;)

In one case, a totally proper and legal lane change, preceded by signaling, was seen as a personal affront. The left lane, ahead, was closed, so everyone had to move to the right lane. He was far behind me, in the same lane, at the time I started changing lanes. The second incident involved my making a totally proper left turn, into the correct lane, at an intersection where the two left lanes could turn left. I guess that he thought that only the left lane could turn left, and felt that I needed a lesson in what he thought was legal. In each case, the other driver was clearly incorrect. (I enforced the Texas Traffic Code, for 33+ years.) I returned gestures in neither case. No escalation on my part.

Houston police are really thinly distributed, lately, for the obvious reasons, while so many drivers’ sense of entitlement, “MY road,” has been indexing upward. The above incidents occurred in what can best be described as “southwest” Houston, specifically Alief, a particularly anarchic part of town. I reckon that I could avoid driving in that part of Houston. (No racism intended…)

[Rex G]

I had one of these for a bit, I ended up selling it off to a buddy who wanted it for hunting back home but I put several hundred (admittedly not a lot) rounds of various milsurp .308 and 7.62x51 ammo through it and did not have any accuracy issues or performance problems. There are some proprietary parts on it, to include the charging handle, which is annoying, but not insurmountable. Honestly out of the box the gun is pretty set up for just adding a optic and light of your choice and starting to shoot. During the time that I had it I ran it as a battle rifle with a Aimpoint Comp M4 and a light and also as a DMR with a Vortex Razor mounted. It performed well at both of those roles. Best thing- price is around 1500 or so.... Typically I'm loath to recommend Sig to anyone but their long guns seem to be pretty good anymore

72693

Truly interesting. Thanks for posting this.

[Borderland]

Is there something different you could do in your driving habits?

That's pretty funny but I know what he's talking about. If you go too slow or get caught in the wrong lane people get angry. Heck, I even had a guy come after me because he thought I should have made a dangerous entry onto a highway from a stop sign. He actually got out of his car and approached my vehicle with a metal pipe. Of course he would have died for his very poor judgement if had used that pipe. I left him standing in the road with his pipe. There's people out there just looking for a confrontation no matter how you drive.

I think I'm a pretty normal driver. I haven't had any ins. claims or tickets in about 20 years and I still get the odd ball who flips me off and tail gates me when I'm doing the limit. Strange times we live in.

[JCN]

Rex G
Borderland

Note that I’m not saying anything regarding being a legal, safe or good driver.

If I see someone driving aggressively, I generally try to GTFO the way… way before they get to me.

That’s not always possible, but I try and give rabid dogs wide berths.

Not saying that there was anything you could have done differently. Just asking if there are mitigation steps that are independent of “being a safe and good driver” that could avoid having to plan for a long gun fight.

[Caballoflaco]

Rex G don’t you have a rattler or another pistol in .300 BO? That should do car windows and auto bodies just fine I would think and be a lot easier to deal with putting in or taking out of a car all the time.

FWIW around here we’ve seen a big rise in car to car shootings where they don’t wait until people stop or get out of cars they just open up with rifle caliber pistols or pistols with ‘stendos while both cars are still driving. So I reckon situational awareness and good driving skills would be more important that shooting back in that scenario (that’s what I tell myself since I drive al it for work, though fortunately rarely deal with road rage)

Best I can tell from media reports (in reality not much) some of these are targeted, but a few seem pretty random.

[Super77]

Revisiting this thread, because road rage is such a thing, now. I have been followed, twice, recently, by angry drivers, in vehicles which could easily outrun my V6 Tundra, so, “running away” was not an option. The plan, if one persists in following, is to calmly get off the road, and calmy park near solid cover, or, broken terrain that would favor The Prepared, but, then what? The G3 clone, perhaps with Spuhr furniture, is starting to look like a good idea, yet again.

Yes, of course, the Benelli, loaded with 12 gauge Tru-Ball Penetrators, is the answer, but, this is the Rifles and Carbines section of the forums. ;)

Edited to add: Yes, I know, I would probably have to solve the problem with a big pistol, because I do not “keep” a long gun in the truck.

Drive straight to the police station or sheriff if possible.

[HCM]

Drive straight to the police station or sheriff if possible.

That is one of those ideas that sounds good but is rarely practical. Both due to proximity and the fact that there may or may not be an armed officer at the station. As Rex mentioned, it also depends on your ability to outrun your aggressors.

[Borderland]

Rex G don’t you have a rattler or another pistol in .300 BO? That should do car windows and door just fine I would think and be a lot easier to deal with putting in or taking out of a car all the time.

FWIW around here we’ve seen a big rise in car to car shootings where they don’t wait until people stop or get out of cars they just open up with rifle caliber pistols or pistols with ‘stendos while both cars are still driving. Best I can tell from media reports (in reality not much) some of these are targeted, but quite a few seem pretty random.

That happens around here on I-5 more and more every year. Vehicles being hit from other vehicles while driving...... and the drivers having no clue why they were targeted. It's like the movie hit in Bullit. When you see the black Charger take the next exit.


https://youtu.be/FJZ-BHBKyos?t=494

[Borderland]

Rex G don’t you have a rattler or another pistol in .300 BO? That should do car windows and auto bodies just fine I would think and be a lot easier to deal with putting in or taking out of a car all the time.

FWIW around here we’ve seen a big rise in car to car shootings where they don’t wait until people stop or get out of cars they just open up with rifle caliber pistols or pistols with ‘stendos while both cars are still driving. So I reckon situational awareness and good driving skills would be more important that shooting back in that scenario (that’s what I tell myself since I drive al it for work, though fortunately rarely deal with road rage)

Best I can tell from media reports (in reality not much) some of these are targeted, but a few seem pretty random.

We have 10 rd limit here after July 1. Buy those >10 rd mags while you can and document the purchase. We're going surfing with the CA dudes and roller blade babes in Ocean Shores baby. ;)

I'll check it out the next I'm there. I hope it's worth it. :)

[Rex G]

Rex G don’t you have a rattler or another pistol in .300 BO? That should do car windows and auto bodies just fine I would think and be a lot easier to deal with putting in or taking out of a car all the time.

FWIW around here we’ve seen a big rise in car to car shootings where they don’t wait until people stop or get out of cars they just open up with rifle caliber pistols or pistols with ‘stendos while both cars are still driving. So I reckon situational awareness and good driving skills would be more important that shooting back in that scenario (that’s what I tell myself since I drive al it for work, though fortunately rarely deal with road rage)

Best I can tell from media reports (in reality not much) some of these are targeted, but a few seem pretty random.

To answer the last part first, yes, many local road rage shootings appear to be random.

I do have a 10”+ Daniel Defense DDM4 V7P, with a LAW folder; 300 BLK. It requires a substantial backpack; it ain’t a courier-/messenger-bag gun. In my reality, it has not (yet) displaced a holster-able or bag-able handgun, on the smaller end, or a 16” M4-ish 5.56 carbine, on the larger end. (I have, recently, been windows-shopping for shorter uppers.)

Situational awareness and good driving skills are definitely The Way. Shooting would be Plan B, and that only when driving away is not practicable. My Tundra may be 2WD, but it has substantial ground clearance, so, climbing over curbs is on the menu of options.

Having said that, I just checked Midway dot com, and found Federal Premium Tru-Ball Penetrator 12 gauge slugs, in stock, for the first time in forever, so I ordered some, to refresh my minimal supply, which I bought in late 2016, to get ready for the Stupid Bowl, in early 2017. [That was a time when the radical Islamists were using lorries, to drive into crowded venues, in Europe. I worked for a PD that expected me to provide my own duty ammo, so, I was glad to do so.] Tru-Ball Penetrators are the ticket, when dealing with vehicle bodies.

Of course, the mostly likely “truck gun,” at any given time, is going to be a more-or-less duty-sized handgun, on my person, or, in a bag that I keep with me, when I exit the vehicle.

[Borderland]

To answer the last part first, yes, many local road rage shootings appear to be random.

I do have a 10”+ Daniel Defense DDM4 V7P, with a LAW folder; 300 BLK. It requires a substantial backpack; it ain’t a courier-/messenger-bag gun. In my reality, it has not (yet) displaced a holster-able or bag-able handgun, on the smaller end, or a 16” M4-ish 5.56 carbine, on the larger end. (I have, recently, been windothews-shopping for shorter uppers.)

Situational awareness and good driving skills are definitely The Way. Shooting would be Plan B, and that only when driving away is not practicable. My Tundra may be 2WD, but it has substantial ground clearance, so, climbing over curbs is on the menu of options.

Having said that, I just checked Midway dot com, and found Federal Premium Tru-Ball Penetrator 12 gauge slugs, in stock, for the first time in forever, so I ordered some, to refresh my minimal supply, which I bought in late 2016, to get ready for the Stupid Bowl, in early 2017. [That was a time when the radical Islamists were using lorries, to drive into crowded venues, in Europe. I worked for a PD that expected me to provide my own duty ammo, so, I was glad to do so.] Tru-Ball Penetrators are the ticket, when dealing with vehicle bodies.

Of course, the mostly likely “truck gun,” at any given time, is going to be a more-or-less duty-sized handgun, on my person, or, in a bag that I keep with me, when I exit the vehicle.

We aren't ready for long guns in vehicles in urban areas. The threat doesn't justify a long gun in vehicles in an urban area. A pistol works fine in these areas. Get a permit to carry if you need one and train. So many states are going to mag restrictions a rifle makes little sense. On the other hand states are moving to constitutional carry or carry without a permit. Take advantage of that if you can. If you need to get a permit, get one. If you can't than you might be the part of national problem.

[JRB]

On Road rage - just let people pass. Don't sit in the left lane of a highway at the posted speed limit. Pass with purpose and not your cruise control. Use your turn signals.
I personally try to drive as if my vehicle was completely invisible, and I expect every other vehicle on the road to keep doing what they're doing and not change their speed or actions in any way for my presence. I never expect or assume that another driver sees me.

That method's kept me out of serious trouble over the past ~25 years of driving.



I'd like to hear your impressions of the Savage rifles, both 5.56 and 7.62x51, if you would care to share.

From what I understand, our own P.E. Kelley has some direct knowledge of Savage's MSR lineup and can also speak with authority.

[Rex G]

We aren't ready for long guns in vehicles in urban areas. The threat doesn't justify a long gun in vehicles in an urban area. A pistol works fine in these areas. Get a permit to carry if you need one and train. So many states are going to mag restrictions a rifle makes little sense. On the other hand states are moving to constitutional carry or carry without a permit. Take advantage of that if you can. If you need to get a permit, get one. If you can't than you might be the part of national problem.

Well, the thing is, there are, already, plenty of long guns, in vehicles, locally, especially if one counts the abbreviated rifles, that chamber rifle cartridges, but may be legal pistols. The weapons that are glorified in a popular, particular form what is said to be “music” is, according to some sources, the Draco, an abbreviated AK, usually chambered for 7.62x39. (I cannot confirm this, as I cannot understand a thing they are saying.) I collected, into evidence, plenty of 7.62x39 brass, during my time with Houston PD, so such weapons are not a particularly recent phenomena. (I retired in 2018.)

Notably, the geographic location of my two above-mentioned incident is Alief, a portion of the Houston area that is “home” to so many “artists” of this particular form of what is said to be music. Travis Scott, of mass-suffocate-your-fans notoriety, for example, calls Alief home.

We cannot simply avoid Alief drivers, and those of similar mentality, by staying out of the Alief area. We live in a “nice” area, but partially surrounded by not-so-nice areas, and we are located along the logical route between Alief, and another notorious part of town, in southeast Houston. They come to us.

Again, I will emphasize that the most-likely weapon, that I would use, in any defensive incident, is probably going to be a more-or-less duty-sized handgun, chambered for a duty-type cartridge.

[Coyotesfan97]

That is one of those ideas that sounds good but is rarely practical. Both due to proximity and the fact that there may or may not be an armed officer at the station. As Rex mentioned, it also depends on your ability to outrun your aggressors.

My agency had four districts. Three are substations and unless it’s shift change there probably isn’t anyone there. The only one I’d count on having an Officer at the station would be the Main Station/HQ. Id suggest getting on 911 and have the dispatcher give you directions to the responding Officers.