ATM fills and security

[wmu12071]

I know some people here have security backgrounds so I’m looking for some advice. A loved one fills ATMs as part of their job. For a long time the only security was watching their own back. They got away with it do to the rural area. Now the company is looking into armed security. The question that has come up is “undercover” or uniform?
Any other info on this type of security would be appreciated.

[Casual Friday]

I don't know who they are, but the ATM in the business next door is filled by 2 dudes in plain clothes that pull up in an SUV, not high speed dudes but they are carrying concealed. They're in and out in a couple minutes. The ATM is independently owned apparently.

[BehindBlueI's]

I did it with an armored car company. One guy fills the machine, overwatch guy is in the truck and actually watching. Truck equipped with PA and siren. Both guys armed.

[Coyotesfan97]

The armored car companies in my area are mostly uniformed. One guy in the truck, one guy filling the ATM, and one guy in overwatch covering him. I see it almost every night on the light rail stations while they’re servicing the ticket machines. Just my observations. I’ve never worked it.

[Cypher]

I know some people here have security backgrounds so I’m looking for some advice. A loved one fills ATMs as part of their job. For a long time the only security was watching their own back. They got away with it do to the rural area. Now the company is looking into armed security. The question that has come up is “undercover” or uniform?
Any other info on this type of security would be appreciated.


Uniformed. Having a visible deterrent is a big part of security. One person services the ATM, one does over watch. Most of the people I've seen the over watch is posted at the machine facing out. Another rule is staggered schedules. Never have a set schedule for servicing the ATM

[txdpd]

Just don't do it. The people that do armored car and ATM robberies are in the murder first and steal second category.

I've responded to 3 capital murders involving ATM robberies and those are also the only three that I've responded to.
1. Uniformed guard exchanging is cash magazine, suspect is hiding behind the dumpster, run 25 feet and shoots the guard in the back of the head. $12k and change stolen. Second shooter at dumpster simultaneously engages the armored car driver. First guard never had a chance.
2. Armored car pulls into parking lot at a liquor store, two suspects with AK's hiding in a SUV engage the guard as he exits the vehicle with cash magazine. Third suspect engages driver as tries to exit the vehicle. Driver of armored car drives off. $20k stolen.
3. ATM tech working on drive thru machine. Crime of opportunity, suspect pull into line and shoots the tech in the head. Suspect is unable to steal any property.

Personally I would do plain clothes, a rotating schedule and any request to service the machine would carry a minimum 24 hour hold over.

[Duelist]

Looks like a kind of scary job, but ... I find myself saying, “yeah, I’d do it, under the right circumstances.”

[TheNewbie]

Our very own Sherman House has articles about his time doing this kind of work at his site.

https://civiliandefender.com/author/shermanahouse/


I am not sure how to find the exact article but it's there. Was a great read.

[jellydonut]

https://www.houstoniamag.com/articles/2017/3/21/houston-armored-car-robbery-capital-world

How well could this job possibly pay? I'd rather work the garbage truck or something. The risk is not commensurate with the reward.

[TGS]

https://www.houstoniamag.com/articles/2017/3/21/houston-armored-car-robbery-capital-world

How well could this job possibly pay? I'd rather work the garbage truck or something. The risk is not commensurate with the reward.

$15-$20 per hour in NJ. Over-the-road guys get $55k+/year, I think.

Basically, you can do the driving part of the job on a regular CDL gig without any of the excess risk for the same amount of pay (or more). Or, if you have a SWAT or .mil background, get hired with DOE/OST as a Nuclear Materials Courier and make really good money, and do a ton of shooting when you're not on the road.

[Cypher]

https://www.houstoniamag.com/articles/2017/3/21/houston-armored-car-robbery-capital-world

How well could this job possibly pay? I'd rather work the garbage truck or something. The risk is not commensurate with the reward.

In Colorado Springs Loomis pays about 13 bucks an hour.

[HCM]

$15-$20 per hour in NJ. Over-the-road guys get $55k+/year, I think.

Basically, you can do the driving part of the job on a regular CDL gig without any of the excess risk for the same amount of pay (or more). Or, if you have a SWAT or .mil background, get hired with DOE/OST as a Nuclear Materials Courier and make really good money, and do a ton of shooting when you're not on the road.


DOE / OST has nothing to do with the Armored car industry. $15 to $20 per hour sounds right, some places have OT or premium pay for working nights or weekends / Sundays.

Did the armored car thing for a few years in college. There were 4 basic types at my place:

- Young guys going to college and / or testing for police and fire jobs. In the days before internet dating this job was also a good way to meet girls.
- Retired Cops - I learned A LOT from these guys regarding tactics, awareness and how to read the racing form and complete off track betting slips ;-)
- older semi retired union tradesmen who did not want to travel for work or were physically unable to do their old jobs.
- A few guys who made a career of it.

I had three coworkers who were killed in robberies and another who was shot in his body armor but survived. Two of the three who were killed were “career” guys, the third was a retired cop. The guy shot in his body armor was a retired cop - oh, did I mention he was wearing a borrowed vest that day because he had forgotten his own ?

[TGS]

DOE / OST has nothing to do with the Armored car industry.

I know, my point being that it's over-the-road secure transportation and pays way, way better if you're qualified and want to do over-the-road secure transportation.

As for your point on pay, there's a good company I know of that works their guys on a UPS style schedule...so you get assigned a certain number of jobs for your shift and get paid for your whole shift regardless if you get out early. Encourages good work ethic, shorter work day for the same amount of money elsewhere, etc. So I guess like any job, it "pays" to shop around before signing below the dotted line....

[Cypher]

I've never done armored car but everyone I know who has HATED it. As mentioned robberies are rare but when they happen the thieves tend to shoot the guards first then take the money. Many robberies are committed by guards who get tired of driving around in a truck full of hundreds of thousands of dollars and bringing home $453.17 a week. So you're watching for bad guys and your coworkers. It's also heavy labor especially if you're moving coins.


I don't know a single person who ever did armored cars that did it any longer than it took to get a better job.

[olstyn]

In Colorado Springs Loomis pays about 13 bucks an hour.

That is nowhere near commensurate with the risks involved, and not nearly enough incentive for the employees not to start thinking that stealing from the company would pay better. They must have an insane rate of employee turnover.

[Cypher]

That is nowhere near commensurate with the risks involved, and not nearly enough incentive for the employees not to start thinking that stealing from the company would pay better. They must have an insane rate of employee turnover.

I mean it's a job, it pays the bills. I know a lot of guys that think that duty belt and that body armor look soooo cool. I also know a lot of guys that got snookered into going to one of those two-year for-profit colleges that cost like $50,000 and give you an associate's degree in criminal justice that in Colorado qualifies you to work for Securitas.

I know a lot of guys who take it because it's armed experience and they can use it to go to work for the private security companies that handle the Castle Rock courthouse or the Denver International Airport or the Denver City buildings that pay like 20 bucks an hour.

[vaglocker]

A while back I had the opportunity to observe an ATM fill while sitting in a surgical waiting room in a hospital. The ATM itself was on the wall outside the waiting room but the fill was being done from inside the waiting room. I witnessed what was a single (armed) guard transfer what I estimated to be close to $10k of currency during the procedure. The whole time his back was to the room he was on his knees and had no back-up. Don't know if this is SOP for the location of this ATM, but WTF?

[Peally]

You can make more than $13 an hour working for McDonald's. Hard fucking pass.

[TGS]

A while back I had the opportunity to observe an ATM fill while sitting in a surgical waiting room in a hospital. The ATM itself was on the wall outside the waiting room but the fill was being done from inside the waiting room. I witnessed what was a single (armed) guard transfer what I estimated to be close to $10k of currency during the procedure. The whole time his back was to the room he was on his knees and had no back-up. Don't know if this is SOP for the location of this ATM, but WTF?

As long as companies can get away with minimal manpower, they will.

IMO the way to do ATM fills is with two uniformed on the courier team and 1 plainclothes advance pulling counter-surveillance. There's no advantage for the actual courier to be plainclothes in most places.....assailants are just going to sit and watch the ATM waiting for someone to change it. Being plain clothes ain't gonna hide you changing the money, and if something kicks off or at the very least you need to draw your weapon then there are distinct advantages to being in uniform.

However, manpower kicks in. Now we are talking a team of 5 dudes (2 couriers, 2 advances frog-leaping sites, 1 driver) to do ATM fills, as opposed to 1-2, and you wouldn't be able to make a profit and stay in business in the current market. I don't think it's safe or effective to do it otherwise, unless you're only concerned with preventing a very low threshold of opportunistic crimes.

[HCM]

A while back I had the opportunity to observe an ATM fill while sitting in a surgical waiting room in a hospital. The ATM itself was on the wall outside the waiting room but the fill was being done from inside the waiting room. I witnessed what was a single (armed) guard transfer what I estimated to be close to $10k of currency during the procedure. The whole time his back was to the room he was on his knees and had no back-up. Don't know if this is SOP for the location of this ATM, but WTF?

Should be a 2 man job - 1 contact/ service and 1 cover. Also cash should be Pre loaded in cassettes to minimize exposure time.

Of course there are always gonna be smaller companies trying to cut costs, compete in the bottom of the market etc but doing such work alone is unsafe.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Been there, done it. I liked it.

I enjoyed the varied schedule, and being on the road. I was an active participant in a robbery attempt against me, in which me and my overwatch reacting to precursor cues, caused the bad guys to abort their plan and leave the scene, where they were apprehended some time later.

In my later years at that job, my sole responsibility was riding shotgun, on a 3 man crew. I would accompany the messenger on bank/ATM runs, and my only function was to shoot what needed to be shot. If I was managing a shop, I’d make all the runs work in that fashion. It’s the safest way to work.

It’s not a bad job. The stakes are high, but if you’re a doer, it’s a great way to build superb situational awareness capabilities in a hurry. I worked there during college, and after undergrad, while waiting to get into professional school. I’m pretty sure I was the only triple degreed person to work there, ever. But I had fun, I had seniority, so I could pick my crews, and I shot 100% and got the TOP GUN award every year I was there. Life is what you make it.


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[Sherman A. House DDS]

https://civiliandefender.com/2016/03/07/nobody-ever-recounts-a-defensive-gun-use-as-i-knew-that-day-would-be-horrible/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[andre3k]

In Houston a lot of the gangs have made robberies / burglaries their primary means of making money. No doubt that ATM machines are many of their targets. Some armored truck companies have now utilized plain clothes employees in unmarked vehicles as backup to the armored vehicles. Having uniformed guards doesn't seem to be a deterrent. They don't seem to mind engaging the guards to get to the cassettes with 90k in them. We had one crew that utilized a sniper on several occasions. Killed the guard from about 100 yards out and the turds got away with the money. Turned out to be a Toyota 4 Runner with a hole in the tailgate, very similar to the beltway sniper setup. The sniper was shot and killed in this incident.

https://www.houstoniamag.com/articles/2017/3/21/houston-armored-car-robbery-capital-world


Now the trend seems to be simply taking the entire ATM. The large outdoor ATM's are stolen with construction forklifts. The indoor ones are simply picked up and carried to an awaiting vehicle.

[BigD]

www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-doting-father-who-robbed-armored-cars/amp/

Better article about the same gang. Well worth a read.

[andre3k]

www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-doting-father-who-robbed-armored-cars/amp/

Better article about the same gang. Well worth a read.

Looks like a good article. One thing I do remember about the case is that when they searched Bastiste's house they found a lot of training materials. He was doing his research and focused on team tactics and counter-surveillance. I can't speak about gang members in general but the robbery crews I come into contact with are becoming more technically proficient at their craft.

[Cypher]

The bottom line is the money is insured and the employee(s) are insured.

If the employee is killed the Workman's Comp provider pays out what ever the death benefit (usually less than what it would cost if the employee killed a bystander while shooting at a robber) is and the employer puts an ad on Craigslist.

If you're really lucky the client names the Sabine Holcum* Memorial Guard Shack in your honor and 6 months later no one on the site even knows who you were or why they named the guard shack after you.

*Selene Holcom was a site supervisor at the Fontanero Service Center (Colorado Springs Utilities) for HSS in 2008. They really did rename the guard shack at the front gate in her honor and no one there really has the slightest idea who she was.

[Bart Carter]

Just to add: I've owned an ATM company for 22 years. Started out doing my own fills "undercover" by showing up with a paper bag with cash at different times. It was a year and a half before I was in a position to hire armored. Now when competition offers ATM provision and undercuts my pricing, I ask an owner what is his liability when a customer gets shot because of paper-bag filling an ATM. I would never do that again, especially for $15 an hour.

I have used all the majors for fills all over the country. They are the weakest part of the chain in being able to provide good service. Once in a while you will get good, dependable armored service due to a good supervisor for a given location. There are much better ways to make money than armored carrier.

[Kommander`]

I worked in this industry for about 7 years (quit in 2014) and the threat level simply is not high enough in the US for the companies to be willing to use more then two guys. When I left the job they were still using trucks left over from the 1980s and were converting things over to one man routes for ATM fills.

I will say though that the vast majority of robbers who hit our trucks were "professionals" who had no interest in shooting someone if they could avoid it. The only time we had someone get shot was when some meth head hit one of our routes. When the robber picked up the bag the courier had dropped the sympathetic response in his gun had resulted in the robber pulling the trigger and hitting our guy in the leg. Just barely missed his femoral artery. After that I started carrying a gun shot wound kit. They only first aid supplies they would give us were those boo boo kits in metal boxes bolted to the inside of the trucks.