Tuning the P-07/P-09

[spinmove_]

There’s plenty of knowledge and buzz around here on making Berettas more awesomer. Not a lot on making these sing around here just yet. Right now I’m just looking to clean up the press and lighten the DA weight. Later when I get a full Production rig I’d be down for doing more if necessary.

I see Cajun Gun Works has got a few different packages listed for duty/carry and for competition. Not sure if CZ Custom has similar packages, I’ve just heard CGW typically has the parts you want.

Specifically I’d be looking to modify my P-07 for carry for now. Already eyeing the Dawson sights, flat hammer spring plug, reduced power TRS, and possibly their pro-grade spring package.

Should I do anything different/additionally or should I be doing something different?


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[Clusterfrack]

Here’s some info pasted from previous threads, plus a little more. Personally, I like CGWs work and parts better than CZC, especially for a carry gun.

[QUOTE=Clusterfrack;744301]Short answer is if you're willing to spend an hour or two working the trigger, you probably don't need to send it to CGW. If you're in the market for a new P-07, buying it directly from them with the kit installed is a good way to go. If you want to carry a gun that you understand mechanically, then installing the kit yourself like I did is a good project.

NOTE: There are two potentially problematic issues with the P-07/09, but both are easily solvable.

1) The guns are not designed to be dryfired. "Unprotected" dryfire smashes the firing pin into the FP retaining roll pin, causing damage to the roll pin. Eventually, this can cause a malfunction where the FP does not move freely. I insert a half a foam earplug between the hammer and firing pin to protect the FP roll pin from peening. I also installed a CGW tempered steel roll pin (https:jjcajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/) that resists damage.

2) As with other CZs there are reports of trigger return springs breaking. This appears to be much less of an issue in the P-07/09 than with the CZ-75 line, and my OEM trigger return spring has been fine so far (thousands of cycles). The armorers manual lists 20000 rounds as the replacement interval for the TRS. An obvious solution is to replace the trigger return spring with a CGW spring (https:/ /cajungunworks.com/product/rp-trsreduced-power-trigger-return-spring/), which I used in my Shadow 2's. These are very durable, and can last for over 50,000 cycles.

Now on to the break-in process:
I cleaned the gun, lubricated the action with Lucas grease and oil. Then I dryfired the gun in DA for a few hundred cycles. Think of this as a workout for your trigger fingers. I used compressed air to blow out the sear area, and re-lubricated with grease.

Next, focusing on rough spots in the single action pull, I worked the trigger repeatedly without dropping the hammer.

The result was dramatic. DA pull dropped from over 13# to 9#, the low end of the published spec for this gun. The SA pull smoothed out as well. Now if you aren't familiar with them, the OEM gun is hard to distinguish from the CGW ProGrade gun. The CGW P-07 has a crisper SA break, and a slightly shorter reset.

Am I glad I spent the time and money to install a ProGrade kit on one gun? Absolutely. The gun is amazing. And it was worth it to learn how the P-07 works and to gain confidence in the design. It's a remarkably simple and well-engineered system. I especially like the ability to tune the weight of the SA pull using the CGW increased weight sear springs ( "https :/ /cajungunworks.com/product/50020-p0709-increased-weight-sear-spring/"). Since I carry it, I chose the heaviest 0.020" spring to increase the SA pull to 4# in the ProGrade gun (stock weight is listed as 3.3 - 5.5lbs).

I replaced the trigger return spring in my stock P-07 with the CGW TRS because of the added durability. It is supposed to reduce the DA pull by about 1/2 lb. I had a hard time noticing or measuring a difference in the DA pull. However the SA pull was measurably lower, around 3.5#, I swapped in a CGW heavy sear spring (0.020"), which brings the SA up to 4.25 to 4.5#, actually heavier than with all OEM springs. I think this setup is perfect for a carry gun.

I recently discovered that the smoothness of the SA pull depends in part on fitting and lubrication of the sear spring. A bit of grease helps a lot. Also make sure the open end of the spring is facing left when looking from the muzzle end of the gun.

[Lon]

Cluster has some good advice.

Here's what I did. I bought the Pro-Grade kit from CGW and installed the parts myself. I did some additional polishing to a couple parts. That's been thousands of rounds ago and I have not had any issues. Currently I've got 2 slides for my 07. The original slide was sent to Mark H at L&M for an RMR install. I bought a second slide - an original 07 Duty slide - from Stuart at CZC and put a set of Dawson sights on it (FO front, black rear). If I were you (since it's a carry gun) I would look at the new Night Fusion sights or these from CZC:
https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/front-and-rear-sights/front-sight/tritium-front-sights/p07-p09-gold-f-s-5-5mm-tritium.html
https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/front-and-rear-sights/cz-rear-sights-all/p07-p09-rear-sights/p07-p09-h-tac-rear-tritium.html

[ranger]

I usually try to gunsmith my own - for once I just paid for a CGW Pro-grade P09 with all the bells and whistles and had delivered to my local FFL.

[holmes168]

Clusterfrack how much alike are the P-07, P-09, and a Shadow 2? Are the very consistent in manipulation? A ccw, nightstand and gaming pistol trio?

I really like the price of the P-07 for sure.

[Clusterfrack]

holmes168, I find the P-07 and Shadow 2 quite similar. Like a G19 and a gamer G34 with a custom trigger. Of course the weight couldn’t be more different. And I’ve had to add decocking to my defensive drills with the P-07 (see the thread on that).

I like having multiple of the same gun for carry and general defense, so I’d probably go with a second P-07 for home as well. But your plan makes good sense too.

[Clusterfrack]

I can’t help adding something here. If you browse the Web, you’ll find all manner of Bubba mods for CZs. Grinding sear geometry, bending trigger bar springs, all sorts of fuckery. In my personal opinion, I recommend strongly against any of that. If I thought the P-07 needed anything more invasive than what I’ve listed above, I don’t think I would trust it as a carry/defense gun. I like that the P-07 is Glock-like in having a robust design that works reliably.

[spinmove_]

Here’s some info pasted from previous threads, plus a little more. Personally, I like CGWs work and parts better than CZC, especially for a carry gun.

[QUOTE=Clusterfrack;744301]Short answer is if you're willing to spend an hour or two working the trigger, you probably don't need to send it to CGW. If you're in the market for a new P-07, buying it directly from them with the kit installed is a good way to go. If you want to carry a gun that you understand mechanically, then installing the kit yourself like I did is a good project.

NOTE: There are two potentially problematic issues with the P-07/09, but both are easily solvable.

1) The guns are not designed to be dryfired. "Unprotected" dryfire smashes the firing pin into the FP retaining roll pin, causing damage to the roll pin. Eventually, this can cause a malfunction where the FP does not move freely. I insert a half a foam earplug between the hammer and firing pin to protect the FP roll pin from peening. I also installed a CGW tempered steel roll pin (https:jjcajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/) that resists damage.

2) As with other CZs there are reports of trigger return springs breaking. This appears to be much less of an issue in the P-07/09 than with the CZ-75 line, and my OEM trigger return spring has been fine so far (thousands of cycles). The armorers manual lists 20000 rounds as the replacement interval for the TRS. An obvious solution is to replace the trigger return spring with a CGW spring (https:/ /cajungunworks.com/product/rp-trsreduced-power-trigger-return-spring/), which I used in my Shadow 2's. These are very durable, and can last for over 50,000 cycles.

Now on to the break-in process:
I cleaned the gun, lubricated the action with Lucas grease and oil. Then I dryfired the gun in DA for a few hundred cycles. Think of this as a workout for your trigger fingers. I used compressed air to blow out the sear area, and re-lubricated with grease.

Next, focusing on rough spots in the single action pull, I worked the trigger repeatedly without dropping the hammer.

The result was dramatic. DA pull dropped from over 13# to 9#, the low end of the published spec for this gun. The SA pull smoothed out as well. Now if you aren't familiar with them, the OEM gun is hard to distinguish from the CGW ProGrade gun. The CGW P-07 has a crisper SA break, and a slightly shorter reset.

Am I glad I spent the time and money to install a ProGrade kit on one gun? Absolutely. The gun is amazing. And it was worth it to learn how the P-07 works and to gain confidence in the design. It's a remarkably simple and well-engineered system. I especially like the ability to tune the weight of the SA pull using the CGW increased weight sear springs ( "https :/ /cajungunworks.com/product/50020-p0709-increased-weight-sear-spring/"). Since I carry it, I chose the heaviest 0.020" spring to increase the SA pull to 4# in the ProGrade gun (stock weight is listed as 3.3 - 5.5lbs).

I replaced the trigger return spring in my stock P-07 with the CGW TRS because of the added durability. It is supposed to reduce the DA pull by about 1/2 lb. I had a hard time noticing or measuring a difference in the DA pull. However the SA pull was measurably lower, around 3.5#, I swapped in a CGW heavy sear spring (0.020"), which brings the SA up to 4.25 to 4.5#, actually heavier than with all OEM springs. I think this setup is perfect for a carry gun.

I recently discovered that the smoothness of the SA pull depends in part on fitting and lubrication of the sear spring. A bit of grease helps a lot. Also make sure the open end of the spring is facing left when looking from the muzzle end of the gun.

Ok, so definitely the CGW Tempered Steel Roll Pin and the RP-TRS. Does the work you described include the whole Pro-Grade kit or just the Pro-Grade Springs?


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[Clusterfrack]

ok, so definitely the CGW Tempered Steel Roll Pin and the RP-TRS. Does the work you described include the whole Pro-Grade kit or just the Pro-Grade Springs?


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One gun has just those two parts, plus a heavy sear spring.

The other has a full CGW ProGrade kit.

I’d go either nearly stock, or Full ProGrade.

Also: CZ USA has the P-07 Armorer's Manual (http://shop.cz-usa.com/ProductDetail/19628_Cz-P07p09-Armorers-Manual) for $39. It's a quality publication with nice photos of everything. A little expensive for what it is, but I'm glad I have it. While you're shopping there, you might as well pick up spare pins, a slide stop, and an extra decocker spring or two. It's nice that parts are so cheap. (Another Glock-like feature).

NOTE: getting the decocker spring back on the decocker during reassembly can be difficult and frustrating. I recommend making a special tool by grinding a notch in a tiny flat blade screwdriver. Lots of light, and reading glasses help too. It's the only obviously stupidly engineered part of the whole gun.

[spinmove_]

One gun has just those two parts, plus a heavy sear spring.

The other has a full CGW ProGrade kit.

I’d go either nearly stock, or Full ProGrade.

Also: CZ USA has the P-07 Armorer's Manual (http://shop.cz-usa.com/ProductDetail/19628_Cz-P07p09-Armorers-Manual) for $39. It's a quality publication with nice photos of everything. A little expensive for what it is, but I'm glad I have it. While you're shopping there, you might as well pick up spare pins, a slide stop, and an extra decocker spring or two. It's nice that parts are so cheap. (Another Glock-like feature).

NOTE: getting the decocker spring back on the decocker during reassembly can be difficult and frustrating. I recommend making a special tool by grinding a notch in a tiny flat blade screwdriver. Lots of light, and reading glasses help too. It's the only obviously stupidly engineered part of the whole gun.

Awesome, thank you very much! Yeah, the manual will come in handy. I’d normally look such things up on YouTube, but given their policies as of late, I’d feel much better simply having a quality resource like that straight from the mothership on hand.

I guess I have my shopping list and some work to do. I might need some specialized punches though, given that it’s not a Glock. Any recommendations there?


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[Clusterfrack]

Awesome, thank you very much! Yeah, the manual will come in handy. I’d normally look such things up on YouTube, but given their policies as of late, I’d feel much better simply having a quality resource like that straight from the mothership on hand.

I guess I have my shopping list and some work to do. I might need some specialized punches though, given that it’s not a Glock. Any recommendations there?


Stanley-Proto J48332 3/32-Inch Super-Duty Punch
http://a.co/gKTJoil

Stanley-Proto J48018 1/8-Inch Super-Duty Punch
http://a.co/1AmUbbI

Mayhew Pro 21232 2mm Metric Punch
http://a.co/cocuTde

Red Iron Tactical Roll Pin Starter Punch Set Hollow End Stainless Steel
http://a.co/371ZtXK

[s0nspark]

David from CGW has posted a walk-through of the polishing they do to the P-07/P-09 on the czfirearms forum. Very good stuff if you are one to polish as you upgrade.

[Clusterfrack]

David from CGW has posted a walk-through of the polishing they do to the P-07/P-09 on the czfirearms forum. Very good stuff if you are one to polish as you upgrade.

Here's the link (http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=66147.0). Some of the mods shown here are too invasive for me to be comfortable with. For non-competition use, I would vastly rather have a 100% reliable gun that has a less "smooth" trigger pull.

[s0nspark]

Here's the link (http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=66147.0). Some of the mods shown here are too invasive for me to be comfortable with. I would vastly rather have a 100% reliable gun that has a less "smooth" trigger pull.

Honestly I feel the same. I do install the ProGrade kit in my guns but prefer to let the parts wear in naturally.

[Duke]

Confusingly worded - delete

[spyderco monkey]

The most useful upgrade I've found was the CGW competition hammer. The hammer is wire EDM, which results in a very crisp break - pretty close to a bolt action hunting rifle.

So if you don't want the whole CGW package, just snag the hammer, and do the polish on all the other trigger parts.

[Greg]

Bending the trigger bar spring downwards a bit is one of the things CGW does to reduce the stacking sensation in DA.

[Clusterfrack]

I like Tractiongrips better than Talon for the CZ P07, and they're half the price ($10 on Amazon)

Link: http://a.co/4PSJxSG

[Francis]

Next, focusing on rough spots in the single action pull, I worked the trigger repeatedly without dropping the hammer.



Cluster, I'm not tracking on this one. How do you work the trigger in SA without dropping the hammer?

This and the M&P question are due to an increasing interest in finding an alternative to Glock that I would be comfortable carrying appendix.

[Clusterfrack]

Cluster, I'm not tracking on this one. How do you work the trigger in SA without dropping the hammer?

This and the M&P question are due to an increasing interest in finding an alternative to Glock that I would be comfortable carrying appendix.

Yeah, that might not have been clear. Pull up to the "wall". Sometimes the hammer will drop and you have to re-cock it. Also, hold the hammer back and work the trigger. You'll feel the roughness of the FP safety cam and the sear spring. Those parts can use some lubrication and break-in.

[spinmove_]

Yeah, that might not have been clear. Pull up to the "wall". Sometimes the hammer will drop and you have to re-cock it. Also, hold the hammer back and work the trigger. You'll feel the roughness of the FP safety cam and the sear spring. Those parts can use some lubrication and break-in.

So, which components are you using grease on? Which ones oil?


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[Lon]

I don’t use oil on anything. I use TW25B on every pistol and some rifle parts.

[spinmove_]

1) The guns are not designed to be dryfired. "Unprotected" dryfire smashes the firing pin into the FP retaining roll pin, causing damage to the roll pin. Eventually, this can cause a malfunction where the FP does not move freely. I insert a half a foam earplug between the hammer and firing pin to protect the FP roll pin from peening. I also installed a CGW tempered steel roll pin (https:jjcajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/) that resists damage.



So, are snapcaps good to use here or would I really be better off using half an earplug or an appropriately sized O ring on top of the firing pin to cushion the hammer blow?


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[Clusterfrack]

I use an earplug cut in half. I like that it is obvious. The o ring seems like it could stay in there and you might not notice. No idea on snap cap.

Grease on sear with a bit of oil. Blow in with canned air.

[Mirolynmonbro]

I like ear plugs better. I either lose the black o rings or forget to take them out. So far I've noticed it at the safe areas

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[holmes168]

Double checking the links to the CGW site:
https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/
https://cajungunworks.com/product/rp-trs-reduced-power-trigger-return-spring/
https://cajungunworks.com/product/p-07-p-09-pro-grade-package/

Definitely am interested in some new sights- the three dot stock sights are decent- but think an upgrade would be a big benefit.
Also want to reduce the DA trigger pull.

[Lon]

Double checking the links to the CGW site:
https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/
https://cajungunworks.com/product/rp-trs-reduced-power-trigger-return-spring/
https://cajungunworks.com/product/p-07-p-09-pro-grade-package/

Definitely am interested in some new sights- the three dot stock sights are decent- but think an upgrade would be a big benefit.
Also want to reduce the DA trigger pull.

I recommend Dawson for FO sights. If you’re looking for something w tritium I’d wait until those of us who have ordered the night fision sights have gotten ours and can report back.

[GJM]

I heard Trijicon has HD sights in the works.

[holmes168]

I recommend Dawson for FO sights. If you’re looking for something w tritium I’d wait until those of us who have ordered the night fision sights have gotten ours and can report back.

definitely want to read your reviews.....saw that they have a pretty nice selection.

[spinmove_]

Just threw a set of Dawson FO/black rear on mine. Can’t wait to zero them.


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[JTPHD]

Just threw a set of Dawson FO/black rear on mine. Can’t wait to zero them.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

+1
I've stopped buying sights from other manufacturers because of Dawson's perfect impact policy.

[holmes168]

are these the Dawson sightes?
https://dawsonprecision.com/copy-of-dawson-precision-colt-1911-22-rimfire-rail-gun-fixed-carry-sight-set-black-rear-fiber-optic-front/

[Lon]

are these the Dawson sightes?
https://dawsonprecision.com/copy-of-dawson-precision-colt-1911-22-rimfire-rail-gun-fixed-carry-sight-set-black-rear-fiber-optic-front/

That’s what I have

[spinmove_]

This is the set I just got.

https://cajungunworks.com/product/92050-competition-grade-all-steel-sight-set-p-0709-series/

They’re a little on the tall side, but oddly enough they’re tall enough, with enough of a shelf at the base of the rear sight, to do one handed manipulations. So long as they zero, I’ll keep them.


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[s0nspark]

I love Dawsons but the CZ Custom fiber front/HTAC rear is also a great combo.

I'm really looking forward to my Night Fisions, though.

[holmes168]

after doing some research- think step one is the Yellow SD spring from CGW and step two will be swapping out sights. I will have to think about how much extra work to do- I think Clusterfrack has it right with on Pro Grade upgrade w/18# spring on the carry gun and another mainly stock. at least that is what my understanding of his comments will be. time to start saving for that second P-07- then the third, and then the P-09 for home defense and range fun. Long term goals.

Edit- correct spring weight

[Clusterfrack]

I use the CGW 18# mainspring in my ProGrade gun, but that’s augmented by the extended firing pin. I’m reluctant to carry a gun that has a less-than-standard primer strike. I’m often in dirty environments.

[holmes168]

The slide release lever has started off incredibly stiff. So far- only drawback to the P-07- the position of the slide release and how stiff it is. I hope as I work on dry fire this week, the lever begins to loosen up- that would be a major bonus. I plan on doing around 30 reloads a day as I work to improve my technique. Worked on reloads during dry fire today- I am pretty confident in every part of manipulation of the P-07 right now- except the reloading portion. Now- as a ccw pistol it does not bother me too much. I do have to adjust my grip a bit- but after GuanoLoco's recommendation on holding the pistol at eye level- it was not too much of a change.

If Clusterfrack doesn't mind answering my one millionth question on the CZ's- on the Shadow- is the slide release in about the same position? Where I was able to get ahold of P-07/09's to try out- the Shadow would be unseen.

Edit- read through some other comments from CF- think I have my answer. They are close but not identical

[s0nspark]

I am pretty confident in every part of manipulation of the P-07 right now- except the reloading portion. Now- as a ccw pistol it does not bother me too much. I do have to adjust my grip a bit- but after GuanoLoco's recommendation on holding the pistol at eye level- it was not too much of a change.


Just to clarify what I do... I don't raise the gun any higher than normal - I just rotate the magwell up a bit more.

[Clusterfrack]

The slide release on the Shadow2 is much easier to reach, and requires way less force. With a little practice, my slidelock reloads are now nearly as fast as standard reloads—important for USPSA Production.

The P-07’s slide release is just really far forward. The good thing is you won’t hit it accidentally. But it’s not as ergonomic as most for slide lock reloads. But with practice, I am satisfied with it for defensive use. It would be a problem for a USPSA Production gun though. As a CO gun with a big stick, it’s probably ok because how often do you reload from slide lock?

Edit: about reloads: I like to raise the gun so I don’t have to flip it as much. That way the time to make an aimed shot is reduced because the sights are closer to aligned.


The slide release lever has started off incredibly stiff. So far- only drawback to the P-07- the position of the slide release and how stiff it is. I hope as I work on dry fire this week, the lever begins to loosen up- that would be a major bonus. I plan on doing around 30 reloads a day as I work to improve my technique. Worked on reloads during dry fire today- I am pretty confident in every part of manipulation of the P-07 right now- except the reloading portion. Now- as a ccw pistol it does not bother me too much. I do have to adjust my grip a bit- but after GuanoLoco's recommendation on holding the pistol at eye level- it was not too much of a change.

If Clusterfrack doesn't mind answering my one millionth question on the CZ's- on the Shadow- is the slide release in about the same position? Where I was able to get ahold of P-07/09's to try out- the Shadow would be unseen.

Edit- read through some other comments from CF- think I have my answer. They are close but not identical

[holmes168]

The slide release on the Shadow2 is much easier to reach, and requires way less force. With a little practice, my slidelock reloads are now nearly as fast as standard reloads—important for USPSA Production.

The P-07’s slide release is just really far forward. The good thing is you won’t hit it accidentally. But it’s not as ergonomic as most for slide lock reloads. But with practice, I am satisfied with it for defensive use. It would be a problem for a USPSA Production gun though. As a CO gun with a big stick, it’s probably ok because how often do you reload from slide lock?

Edit: about reloads: I like to raise the gun so I don’t have to flip it as much. That way the time to make an aimed shot is reduced because the sights are closer to aligned.

I’ve not done a competition yet- but a light went off with your comment. If I remember correctly- you plan your reload during the stage so you don’t do a slide lock reload. Very important to not run out of rounds during the stage because of the extra time a slide lock reload could take.

[Lon]

I kinda like where the slide stop is at. It really hasn’t slowed down my reloads. And one thing I don’t do with the 07 that I tend to do with most other semiautomatic pistols is ride the slide stop. I deactivate it with my left thumb when my hands come back together.

[Clusterfrack]

I’ve not done a competition yet- but a light went off with your comment. If I remember correctly- you plan your reload during the stage so you don’t do a slide lock reload. Very important to not run out of rounds during the stage because of the extra time a slide lock reload could take.

Right. Especially in Production (and Single Stack if you’re into that) because there are several reloads in every field course and that can add up. I had a recent match win that depended on taking a chance on a standing slide lock reload (that I didn’t need). I practice my reloads until they are 100% and super fast.

[JTPHD]

Not to hijack, from the reload discussion, but does anyone use bicycle inner tubes for grip?

I was shooting my P-07 in light rain at a steel challenge match, but the traction grips were still too slick.

My improvised fix was to slip a piece of inner tube over the grip. I found it both improved the traction while shooting and gave me enough leeway to adjust my grip during the draw if needed. I know this was a grip fix in the past, just wondering if anyone else still does it, or there are better solutions? For me, the P-series pistols could definitely use some more traction on the angled areas of the back strap inserts.

27835

[ralph]

I've been following this, and the other P-07 thread..I've been kicking around the idea of a P-07, I had thought seriously about a P-01omega, but they seem hard to find unless you're looking for a suppressor ready model.. Anyway the P-07 seems like it's much easier to find, and about $100 cheaper. Right now, I'm liking the OD green. My game plan was to install a upgrade kit from CGW, and pretty much run with that. I've seen where P-10 mags can be used in the P-07, does anybody have a pic of a P-07 with a P-10mag in it ? One of the drawbacks to the P-07 is the price of mags, compared to my steel " SP-01 compact" (99021) which are about $20 apeice for Mec-Gar's. Buying just a couple extra P-07 mags would wipe out any savings had over the P-01.. I've been watching a few videos about dissasembly of the Omega system, and it does seem like it's more robust that the standard CZ75 lockwork, installing one of the CGW kits dosen't look all that difficult..

I had a P-07 a few years ago, had some work done to it, but at the time I was primarily carrying a Glock, and did'nt put the time in to learn a DA/SA system, I could'nt shoot it all that well (not the pistol's fault) and sold it..I kinda regret it now..Now, I've switched away from striker fired pistols in favor of DA/SA pistols, as I'm comvinced they offer a level of saftey that striker fired pistols can't.. So here I am, a few years later, maybe a little wiser, and thinking of jumping back in with a P-07. Another thing I noticed that will need a little more investgation, is the last time I was out practicing, I had my steel framed CZ compact, and my PX4cc, I shot much tighter groups with the steel framed compact, than I did with the PX4, as I said, I need to try this some more, But, it sure makes me wonder.. If I do end up with another P07, any upgrades would be done as money allows, so, I may not be carrying it for awhile, I want to shoot it for awhile first, and see if I like it enough to start sinking money that I'll never get back out of it, into it.. Another reason for the OD green P07, it comes with three dot night sights (real night sights) that with a sharpie, I can convert to one dot sights.. Those also can be swapped out down the road..

[Greg]

I've never noticed the P-07 slide stop/release being too stiff but I use my support hand thumb on all slide releases.

[s0nspark]

I've never noticed the P-07 slide stop/release being too stiff but I use my support hand thumb on all slide releases.

Same and same.

It took me a while to adjust from using my strong side thumb but now I love it.

[spinmove_]

Same and same.

It took me a while to adjust from using my strong side thumb but now I love it.

I was never able to comfortably operate a slide release with my primary hand thumb on anything but a SIG. Support hand thumb for me all the way.


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[JTPHD]

I do wonder about the P-series guns in the long term...I mean, as far as aftermarket support, we have essentially CGW and CZC, whereas Beretta has LTT and the factory parts support. If those shops ever close up, then the support for making these guns great will be nil (like the 3rd gen? Smith & Wessons). Perhaps my concerns are unfounded, just something I think about before investing more into the platform.

[spinmove_]

I do wonder about the P-series guns in the long term...I mean, as far as aftermarket support, we have essentially CGW and CZC, whereas Beretta has LTT and the factory parts support. If those shops ever close up, then the support for making these guns great will be nil (like the 3rd gen? Smith & Wessons). Perhaps my concerns are unfounded, just something I think about before investing more into the platform.

They’re not Glocks, so you’re simply not going to get anywhere near the same level of aftermarket support for them unless people start buying them in droves. That’s ok though so long as what is available in the aftermarket for those guns works for you. I don’t think Beretta, CZC, or CGW are going anywhere anytime soon.

If that doesn’t give you the warm fuzzies, then I’d stick to Glocks and 1911s and either option is obviously here to stay.


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[Clusterfrack]

JTPHD, I thought about that too. My answer is that the P-07/09 are good guns in stock configuration. I’d carry one bone stock with no concerns.

For competition, the P-09 is looking good in Carry Optics so I predict an expansion in aftermarket support for both guns.