Newbie needs advice on a PCC 9mm

[Dismas316]

Had an opportunity to shoot a few at the range recently and I think I may have the bug. Just loads of fun. Shot the scorpion and the HK UMP 45. Been thinking about these for a while. Would likely be a fun range toy but since I have started to get into competition, may jump into that down the road. That said, I like the sbr around the 8" length, which probably wouldn't be great for competition. I'll just say it now, I just love the "cool" factor of the short barrel pistol. but open to suggestions.

In doing the internet search, there are tons of options out there, but again I am a newbie to this so don't assume I know a lot about these. In doing the usual internet thing, it seems like the scorpion certainly is popular but I have gravitated to the CMMG guard, MPX, and the wilson AR9. Yeah I know, pretty broad smf kind of expensive. I am not opposed to spending the money if it's worth it. I do like glock compatibility but not a must. Clearly spending the money I would want reliability first and foremost. One of the reasons the Wilson AR9 is in the mix, so it seems by reviews. I figure high quality I can grow into with experience. If this is nutty, say so. Is there one PCC I could grow into, or should I start at the lower end and upgrade as I become experienced in these. The smart move financially would probably be the way to go but you know what they say about a fool and his money. :D

So what would be a good choice, and why? The purpose would be fun, potentially have something to compete with, (mainly for the fun of it as well) open to any suggestions to get started on this route. Again, money isn't the main driver if it's worth the cash. thx for taking the time to comment.

[GJM]

If you don’t have a specific preference for exact components, want to shoot USPSA PCC, and have about $1,500, either:

1) get a Sig MPX, which shoots factory ammo softly, but has some warts in durability and function with certain specimens. (Also a competition model has been announced)

2) get a JP GMR 13/15, which is the most common factory carbine I see in USPSA competition. Another good option is the Nordic Components, which Patrick Kelley favorably reviewed. You will want to use lower PF reloads to maximize performance with a blow back.

[Grey]

For a budget of 1500 i would look at the ghm 9 by B&T.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[LittleLebowski]

MPX or Scorpion Evo. I have the latter, love it.

[GJM]

MPX or Scorpion Evo. I have the latter, love it.

I think the Evo works well if you leave it basically stock with standard capacity magazines. In USPSA, the higher capacity mags seems to have fleas, and a number of folks have had trouble trying to work the triggers and perform other customization.

[Dismas316]

Has the MPX proven to be reliable? Thought I heard it had issues but that could have been another sig.

Also, what is a good optic to run on it?

[GJM]

Has the MPX proven to be reliable? Thought I heard it had issues but that could have been another sig.

Also, what is a good optic to run on it?

Yes and no. I shot 1,200 rounds thru mine at a recent TPC carbine class without a stoppage. Buddy had a stoppage with his at a big match back in May. I have another MPX that needs to go back for reliability issues. Seems to vary by individual gun. Plus, the gas system requires frequent cleaning for top performance. Brian Nelson, a top 3 gun shooter, cleans his gas system each night of a major match, and that necessitates removing the barrel.

A bunch of friends run a Trijicon MRO on the MPX, as do I.

[rob_s]

Any advice on gaming uppers for a Colt-mag-based 9mm AR lower? My current upper is effectively integrally suppressed which I understand they won’t let me use.

[olstyn]

effectively integrally suppressed which I understand they won’t let me use.

I think that's mainly due to shot timers having a tough time with picking up shots from suppressed guns. Hard to give you a legitimate score that way.

[ranger]

I SBR'd a SIG MPX pistol. Only mods are adding a SIG MPX/MCX folding stock, C-More red dot, and a replacement 4.5 inch barrel so I can use a TiRant 9 suppressor. My MPX is a Gen 2 and I have had no issues with mine with the 8 inch barrel unsuppressed or the 4.5 inch barrel suppressed. It has eaten every kind of cheap steel case I have on hand plus my 124 or 147 grain reloads.

However, before the MPX, I bought a cheap PSA 16" 9mm AR kit (everything minus the lower receiver - uses the Colt style mag) that served me well at a very cheap price.

[RevolverRob]

Any advice on gaming uppers for a Colt-mag-based 9mm AR lower? My current upper is effectively integrally suppressed which I understand they won’t let me use.

JP GMR-15 Upper. If I was going to do another one, this is what I would do, with the JP silent capture 9mm buffer assembly.

[LittleLebowski]

I think the Evo works well if you leave it basically stock with standard capacity magazines. In USPSA, the higher capacity mags seems to have fleas, and a number of folks have had trouble trying to work the triggers and perform other customization.

I like the trigger just fine as is, but trigger snobbery does not afflict me :cool:

[Grey]

I like the trigger just fine as is, but trigger snobbery does not afflict me :cool:

Might get you kilt in the streets if you don't have a 6 oz trigger for them sweet mozambique quadruple navy seal delta taps.

[ranger]

I think that's mainly due to shot timers having a tough time with picking up shots from suppressed guns. Hard to give you a legitimate score that way.

That is what I ran into with my suppressed SBR - shot timer missed many of the suppressed shots.

[underhook]

The purpose would be fun, potentially have something to compete with,

I own a Kriss Vector, MPX, and Scorpion Evo 3 all in 9mm. They are all a tone a fun to shoot and I compete in local PCC matches with them.

The MPX is the most easily concealed and carried in a back pack. I added a Timney trigger as the stock is not so great. Magazines are great quality (I think Lancer makes them) but expensive. The rails is great and I found it easy to setup with small light. The manual of arms carries right over from the AR.

The Scorpion is Glock simple. A little rougher to shoot thanks to the massive unstoppable bolt. It's form factor is much larger than the MPX.

The Kriss is Glock mag compatible and real smooth easy to shoot gun. Stock trigger is good. I added a SB Tactical brace. I've had FTEs problems with it with 115 ammo. 147 runs great. The ejection port in tinny so when you get FTEs it's a pain.

All three work great with a Silencer Omega 9k.

[ranger]

I need to try that Timney trigger for the MPX. I have been very lucky and caught MPX Gen 1 mags on sale much cheaper than the normal retail - I grab MPX mags whenever I see them on sale. I have added some 20 round mags for "reloads" and when the MPX is in a backpack or such where the 30 rd mags are problematic.

[Dismas316]

I need to try that Timney trigger for the MPX. I have been very lucky and caught MPX Gen 1 mags on sale much cheaper than the normal retail - I grab MPX mags whenever I see them on sale. I have added some 20 round mags for "reloads" and when the MPX is in a backpack or such where the 30 rd mags are problematic.

Can you use the gen 1 mags for the gen 2 mpx?

[ranger]

Can you use the gen 1 mags for the gen 2 mpx?

They have been working fine in my Gen 2 MPX 9mm.

[Sensei]

In order of reliability and shear fun, I recommend the following:

Z5P or Z5RS. Built on HK licensed machinery by HK trained techs, they’re about as close as you can come to a German MP5 without getting an SP5K
27439

Sig MPX Gen 2. Has been reliable both suppressed and unsuppessed for about 1000 rounds without cleaning
27440

Scorpion Evo 3. Needs about $400 of aftermarket parts to bring it into compliance and up to speed with the MPX, IMHO
27441

I also have a KRISS Vector with brace. While it is more of a novelty gun, mine has been reliable and it does feed from Glock mags.

[Dismas316]

Everything I am seeing on the Gen 2 MCX is in the $1999 range, if even available, seems they are the one to get in terms of reliability vs. the gen 1. Might have to bit the bullet on this one. Seems to check all the boxes, and the modularity is certainly a plus.

[rob_s]

I like the trigger just fine as is, but trigger snobbery does not afflict me :cool:

says every finisher 10th place and below at every match ever.

[momano]

You didn't mention in your OP if you already owned any ARs. By getting one of the AR-9 options, you would be building familiarity with that platform- which is valuable. I would seriously consider GJM's suggestions if I were in your place.

[Dismas316]

You didn't mention in your OP if you already owned any ARs. By getting one of the AR-9 options, you would be building familiarity with that platform- which is valuable. I would seriously consider GJM's suggestions if I were in your place.

I do own an AR so familiar with the platform. I do like GJM's suggestions, the JP-GMR 15 looks like a pretty nice competitive option. I think I am leaning more towards the MPX mainly due to the flexibility of that platform but will try not and make an impulse buy at this point and try to evaluate all the options.

[underhook]

I think I am leaning more towards the MPX mainly due to the flexibility of that platform but will try not and make an impulse buy at this point and try to evaluate all the options.

The MPX is a solid choice. Love mine and the AR manual of arms is great. Please be warned that the MPX will lead you to purchase a Rattler. That will then lead you to the Sisyphus hell of thinking through every situation and which is the most appropriate tool.

[ranger]

I love my MPX but it is kind of a money pit although I have had no reliability issues (knock on wood). MPX pistol + tax stamp for SBR + SIG folding stock + used CMore + extra mags + tax stamp for 9mm suppressor + 4.5 barrel

PS - I need to buy a Timney trigger for this MPX. Stock trigger bites.

I did not have to SBR and Suppress but that became the goal/purpose. This was definitely a "want" not a "need". Meanwhile I have a perfectly good PSA 9mm AR in the safe that realistically does what PCC needs to do.

[GJM]

If you shoot an MPX a lot, like serious USPSA competitors do, you will be regularly removing the barrel to clean the gas system if you want your gun to run. Based on a sample of a dozen guns with friends, about fifty percent will come with or develop issues that require a trip back to Sig, or parts purchases from In Lead We Trust, since Sig’s answer to everything is to send the whole gun back.

A month ago I called to tell them my MPX was not running, and the problem followed an individual BCG to each of my MPX carbines. They said no to my request to return just the BCG.

That said, the MPX is a joy to shoot, even with factory ammo that will rattle your fillings in an AR9. The AR9 guns pretty much run forever, if you replace the firing pin with a Wilson unit. Oh, and of course all these 9mm carbines chew up triggers, but I hardly count that. You will need to handload for your AR9 to get a soft shooting gun.

[olstyn]

A month ago I called to tell them my MPX was not running, and the problem followed an individual BCG to each of my MPX carbines. They said no to my request to return just the BCG.

Why would they save shipping costs by trusting your diagnosis when they had the opportunity to pay to ship an entire gun instead? :rolleyes:

That said, PCC looks like an AWFUL lot of fun, and I have a serious case of the wants when it comes to the MPX; I like that it's not blowback operated, and was designed to run 9mm vs adapted to it. My heart says yes, but my bank account says "HELL FUCKING NO," so I'm probably safe from worrying about whether I get a good one or a bad one, at least for now. Maybe sometime after I get my car paid off...

[Dismas316]

Anyone run a cmmg guard? Seems to be in the mid price range, reviews all seem great but I’d rather hear from PF members.

[Dismas316]

One other questin for those who shoot competition. Is it useless to shoot with an 8 inch barrel or should I just get the 16 inch?

[LittleLebowski]

says every finisher 10th place and below at every match ever.

There's folks here whom have competed against my stock Glock and I.

[LittleLebowski]

Scorpion Evo 3. Needs about $400 of aftermarket parts to bring it into compliance and up to speed with the MPX, IMHO


Mine has an aftermarket charging handle and mag release, what did you add to yours?

[GuanoLoco]

Anyone run a cmmg guard? Seems to be in the mid price range, reviews all seem great but I’d rather hear from PF members.

It has my eye but I’ve never run one. I’ve built a couple AR9’s from sale parts. It can be a valuable learning experience...frustrating as hell when things don’t work, deeply satisfying when they do.

Biggest thing seems to be getting a barrel with a chamber that is appropriately ramped - or break out the Dremel and polish and ramp your own. Some vendors are now selling barrels with external ramps, you use their bolts or cut back the lip of your own.

Another thing is getting a deep chamber. Too many of the chambers are cut way too shallow and have issues with longer-loaded rounds.

Another key decision is Glock vs. Colt Mags. I have receivers for both but would have to say that I have a preference for the Glock Mags. Yes, they are more expensive; the Colt mags can be found on sale periodically.

[Sensei]

Mine has an aftermarket charging handle and mag release, what did you add to yours?


I had to make 922r compliance since mine is a SBR with an Omega 9K under the handguard. The options are a 922r kit at $200, but that still leaves a lot to be desired in terms of grip, charging handle, stock ergonomics, etc., IMHO. Thus, I did it a little piecemeal. The Zhukov stock and adapter was $160 or so. The Yeti Wurks grip was about $40. The foregrip was another $60 or so. I had another $100 or so in various additional parts to get to 6 to make 922r.

[Dismas316]

Found out Sig is going to be discontinuing the 8 inch barrel version of the MPX. May have to move quicker than I wanted.

[Dismas316]

If you don’t have a specific preference for exact components, want to shoot USPSA PCC, and have about $1,500, either:

1) get a Sig MPX, which shoots factory ammo softly, but has some warts in durability and function with certain specimens. (Also a competition model has been announced)

2) get a JP GMR 13/15, which is the most common factory carbine I see in USPSA competition. Another good option is the Nordic Components, which Patrick Kelley favorably reviewed. You will want to use lower PF reloads to maximize performance with a blow back.


So I think I’ve narrowed down (at least for the time being) to the JP GMR 15, and the Nordic Compenents. Price difference is close to $500 (JP is more expensive) Leaning to the JP only because there is very little info on the Nordic, I did watch the Pat Kelly video and he sure liked it. Have you shot the NC gun? I am thinking the JP might be a good option out of the box with not a lot to do with it initially in terms of upgrading the gun. Seems the JP would be a fairly safe choice. Thoughts?

Edit: The price on the JP-GMR was for the 13 not the 15. More like $800 difference, closer to the sig MPX price

What’s the difference between the 13 & 15?

[GJM]

So I think I’ve narrowed down (at least for the time being) to the JP GMR 15, and the Nordic Compenents. Price difference is close to $500 (JP is more expensive) Leaning to the JP only because there is very little info on the Nordic, I did watch the Pat Kelly video and he sure liked it. Have you shot the NC gun? I am thinking the JP might be a good option out of the box with not a lot to do with it initially in terms of upgrading the gun. Seems the JP would be a fairly safe choice. Thoughts?

Edit: The price on the JP-GMR was for the 13 not the 15. More like $800 difference, closer to the sig MPX price

What’s the difference between the 13 & 15?

I have a Nordic 8 inch. It has a MLOK fore end, and is lighter in weight than the JP. JP comes with a better trigger, although I installed an ALG with a JP spring, and it is fine. Both are good choices. The 15 has some more desirable competitive features/parts.

[Dismas316]

I have a Nordic 8 inch. It has a MLOK fore end, and is lighter in weight than the JP. JP comes with a better trigger, although I installed an ALG with a JP spring, and it is fine. Both are good choices. The 15 has some more desirable competitive features/parts.

Do you compete with the Nordic? Going back and forth if the 8” barrel is to small for competition or if it’s not that big a difference. Thx

[GJM]

Do you compete with the Nordic? Going back and forth if the 8” barrel is to small for competition or if it’s not that big a difference. Thx



No. It is primarily a sub caliber trainer for a .300 Blk.

I started competing with a pair of MPXs then went to a pair of custom AR9s, built locally.

[rob_s]

I can't seem to find the JP uppers (or really any of the uppers) for sale by themselves anywhere, or if I do don't see any confirmation that they will work with a Colt-pattern lower (the JP complete rifles take Glock mags, no?). I was under the impression that 9mm AR uppers needed to be matched to the mag type. Is that not the case?

Any links to uppers suitable for use in USPSA PCC that I can just drop on to my Colt-pattern lower?

[Dismas316]

Well now the waiting begins, 6-8 weeks for the custom build I requested from JP. Ended up getting the JP-GMR 15 w/14.5 inch barrel.

Can’t wait, but unfortunately I will have to. Thanks for all the input, I blame you GJM!! I likely will be thanking you is 6-8 wks. :D

[El Cid]

If I was buying one today I’d likely get the Wilson Combat that takes Glock mags. I have plenty of mags and the controls are identical to the AR’s I rely on for work and home defense.

[P.E. Kelley]

I wish I would have jumped in earlier. JP...everything JP is well crafted, but you do pay for JP because JP

I have a Lone Wolf and a Nordic and the Nordic with a trigger is ready to win.

I have a managed a few wins and some lesser podiums with mine...as delivered with the addition of a trigger and sight.

[Dismas316]

I wish I would have jumped in earlier. JP...everything JP is well crafted, but you do pay for JP because JP

I have a Lone Wolf and a Nordic and the Nordic with a trigger is ready to win.

I have a managed a few wins and some lesser podiums with mine...as delivered with the addition of a trigger and sight.

I watched your review of the Nordic components and was leaning pretty hard that direction because of it, but after handling the JP at my LGS it was pretty much a done deal. I figured couldn't really go wrong with either so spend the few extra dollars on the JP.

[rob_s]

Anyone familiar with these guys at all?

https://mbxextreme.com/index.php?page=PCC_Barrel_Handguard

[ranger]

Anyone familiar with these guys at all?

https://mbxextreme.com/index.php?page=PCC_Barrel_Handguard

They are well know for supplying magazines for Paras, etc for competition uses. Cannot comment on other capabilities.

[Dismas316]

Finally picked up my GMR 15 what a blast. Trigger is fantastic, what a fun shooting gun. Put about 200 rounds through it today for a little break in. Unfortunately my range had worked being done to it unexpectedly so had a small area really just to zero my sights. Hopefully I’ll have the full range this weekend to run and gun with it. Was having second thoughts of spending the money but once I started shooting, that went away prettt quickly