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Al T.
02-17-2012, 10:33 AM
On The Firearms Blog, there is an interesting video of a new Russian handgun. I am not much interested in the pistol, but found it illuminating to watch the shooting.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/02/17/new-russian-arsenal-firearms-strike-one-strizh-polymer-pistol/

Are those cardboard targets the EU IPSC targets?

RoyGBiv
02-17-2012, 10:43 AM
Gotta love the Russian idea of proving something is accurate (last 15 seconds) :eek:

Jay870
02-17-2012, 10:43 AM
On The Firearms Blog, there is an interesting video of a new Russian handgun. I am not much interested in the pistol, but found it illuminating to watch the shooting.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/02/17/new-russian-arsenal-firearms-strike-one-strizh-polymer-pistol/

Are those cardboard targets the EU IPSC targets?

That is the IPSC "Classic" Target, which is the standard paper target for all IPSC regions other than the US/USPSA.

Shellback
02-17-2012, 10:58 AM
I am not much interested in the pistol, but found it illuminating to watch the shooting.

By illuminating do you mean suicidal? Russians never got the memo on gun safety.

LOKNLOD
02-17-2012, 11:15 AM
Were they trying to demonstrate that the barrel does not tilt like (or as much as) a Glock?
The frame looks very slim. I wonder what the capacity is?

Al T.
02-17-2012, 11:44 AM
Thanks Jay. New one on me.

About 1:50 the shooter has a decent grip. Some of the other gun handling was sub-par IMHO.

I think the final scene was shot from an angle as shown by the smoke. At least one can hope. :eek:

beltjones
02-17-2012, 12:04 PM
On The Firearms Blog, there is an interesting video of a new Russian handgun. I am not much interested in the pistol, but found it illuminating to watch the shooting.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/02/17/new-russian-arsenal-firearms-strike-one-strizh-polymer-pistol/

Are those cardboard targets the EU IPSC targets?

Those are indeed the official IPSC targets. In the US we call them "classic" targets for some reason. Most people refer to them as turtle targets. I like them quite a bit because they are smaller and demand better accuracy than the US "metric" targets.

The gun looks ok, but it kinda looks like a Glock and a Kel-Tec got drunk on Stoli and accidentally made a baby.

Tamara
02-17-2012, 12:14 PM
Safe gun handling as we know it is a fairly recent concept that hasn't even completely penetrated the lower 48, much less had much chance to spread overseas.

jthhapkido
02-17-2012, 12:38 PM
Those are indeed the official IPSC targets. In the US we call them "classic" targets for some reason. Most people refer to them as turtle targets. I like them quite a bit because they are smaller and demand better accuracy than the US "metric" targets.

And I hate them. :) I don't mind the "demand better accuracy part" but we shoot them so little I have trouble remembering at speed where the stupid A-zone is. (Please, don't tell me "it is in the middle"---I know. But how far OUT does it go? How precise do my shots need to be? Grrrrr..... I end up wasting time putting the shots right into the middle because I don't remember how much error I can allow and still get an A.)



The gun looks ok, but it kinda looks like a Glock and a Kel-Tec got drunk on Stoli and accidentally made a baby.

:) Nice.

I've got to admit, I thought the top looked like a Glock and the frame looked like an XD.

phil_in_cs
02-17-2012, 12:55 PM
By illuminating do you mean suicidal? Russians never got the memo on gun safety.

I think they take pride in proving their masculinity by doing very dangerous things. There's a reason life expectancy for Russian men is now into the low 50's.

TGS
02-17-2012, 01:25 PM
I just think it's amazing how many different ways you can skin a cat........you know, make a SFA gun that's either the same or slightly different than the rest....

Glock
Steyr M/S series (we never hear ANYTHING about these....new P-T.com endurance gun? :) )
P99
M&P
PPQ
Caracal
ect.....

I don't speak Russian, but it looked like he was pretty proud of some features that are pretty standard among guns these days......like mag releases.....and the Browing tilt-barrel locked breech.....and light rails.......Whoop'de doo, Russia. Now you can all stop dressing like it's still the 80's and join the new millennium.....

iakdrago
02-17-2012, 03:11 PM
.and the Browing tilt-barrel locked breech.....and light rails.......Whoop'de doo, Russia. Now you can all stop dressing like it's still the 80's and join the new millennium.....

Actually it's a fixed barrel--nothing like the Browning tilt-barrel. The ambi magazine release is still a relatively new feature--ex: latest gen glocks don't have it. Light rails were added to Gen3 in the late 90's. While Russian weapons are generally not pretty--they are generally overbuilt reliable and get the job done. The Russian gun designs of the 90's were as turbulent as it's politics--that saw a number of new designs. For the most part they never saw any use outside of the special forces--thus leaving most to believe that besides the AK, the SKS, and the Makarov--there is nothing going on in the Russian gun industry. While i agree that the Russian gun market is a tiny fraction of what it is in the US (partially due to the lack of the private consumer), the notion that the Russian small arms is completely stagnant and buried under the ruble of the Berlin wall is far from the truth.

On a different note--here is the transcript of what was said during the clip:

"Strij" is a type of bird

"The design was created and designed as a private venture. There are reports that indicate that “Strij” is capable of very “high flight” in the arms market. Maybe it sounds immodest, but a professional shooter Andrey Kerisenko, says “believe me, the Black Strij is our answer to the legendary Glock 17 which is one of the favorites in the special forces of the world.” There they are next to each other, the Russian on the left and the Austrian on the right. Though it seems like they are similar in appearance, in function they are different. One of the ways that it’s different is the way that the slide (they referred to it as the “bolt” but I’m guessing that they mean the slide) operates. “You see, the barrel lifts. Here in our pistol the barrel always remains parallel. This allows the pistol to have a high degree of “vizfors” (I have no idea what technical term he is referring too—it was muffled). Because of that characteristic it’s claimed that there is very little recoil. Another feature that is well received is the lack of the traditional safety. The negligent discharge is prevented by 3 internal safeties. It’s a 9mm caliber, or for those who undersantd—9x19 luger. The magazine holds 17 rounds. The process of loading is also interesting, because traditional pistols have a button, but here we have buttons—1 on each side. “Look how it works. I push a button and right away insert another magazine. This is because there is a flared magwell. “ It’s also possible to compliment “Strij” with a flashlight and also an “assault” magazine for 30 rounds, it’s also possible to lengthen the barrel—converting the pistol into a submachine gun. Even without the upgrade, in trained hands it’s already really fast. Andrey Kirisenko repeated the word “unique” many times, according to him that’s because from the start the designers of the pistol were aided with ex/current members of the special forces. They also made 124 critiques of the first prototype. With that input the 2nd prototype was created. Tens more criticisms later, another prototype was made—Strij 3. But even this prototype is going to get updated. Experts are already noticing the new guy. “At the beginning of its journey it already met all the requirements required of the modern pistols. Whether it will surpass them, through its success on the market, its success in the gov forces—only time will show.” For now, the pistol is being demonstrated to the potential buyers. I hope that the pistol will not be one of a limited production, but instead will be mass produced. For quality, the creator is ready to answer with his head. <this is where they put the target next to his head and shoot it>"

iakdrago
02-17-2012, 03:21 PM
Just re-read what i wrote. TGS, if it came off as me being disrespectful--i apologize as it was not my intent.

jetfire
02-17-2012, 03:25 PM
Hey, I like the turtle targets. I backed Phil Strader when he suggested that USPSA should switch over to them entirely.

Al T.
02-17-2012, 03:33 PM
iakdrago, thanks much for the translation. :)

Fixed barrel huh? Looks like a low bore axis as well. They might be onto something there.

TGS
02-17-2012, 03:44 PM
Just re-read what i wrote. TGS, if it came off as me being disrespectful--i apologize as it was not my intent.

Not in the least bit, dude.

Thanks for the translation and pointing out that it's fixed barrel, cause it definitely looked like it was tilting at :43-:48.

If it's a fixed barrel, then what are they using to delay breech opening? Is it a gas-retarded blowback like the P7 or ZVI Kevin?

barstoolguru
02-17-2012, 03:58 PM
a glock russian knock off comming to a gun store near you

BaiHu
02-17-2012, 07:02 PM
Not in the least bit, dude.

Thanks for the translation and pointing out that it's fixed barrel, cause it definitely looked like it was tilting at :43-:48.

If it's a fixed barrel, then what are they using to delay breech opening? Is it a gas-retarded blowback like the P7 or ZVI Kevin?

That was the Glock. It had yellow taped stripes on it. At :40 you see the barrel not move when the slide was racked. I just re-watched it after reading the translation. Very helpful-thanks iakdrago.

WDW
02-17-2012, 07:09 PM
You mean Russia finally made a gun not based on the AK platform? I was about to comment how much like a G17 it was until I realized that was a G17 they were comparing it to.:o

LHS
02-17-2012, 08:12 PM
iakdrago, thanks much for the translation. :)

Fixed barrel huh? Looks like a low bore axis as well. They might be onto something there.

To me, it looked like the barrel was moving back with the slide for a short distance before unlocking, but it did not appear to tilt. Perhaps a rotating barrel a la the Beretta Storm/Cougar, or a locking block like the P38/Beretta 92?

LittleLebowski
02-17-2012, 10:44 PM
You know the gun forum mythology..... The Russians and the Israelis are so much better at war and firearms proficiency than us. Never mind our country being at war for over a decade.

Kyle Reese
02-18-2012, 10:14 AM
I'm not selling my 9mm Glocks just yet...

Soviet / Russian handguns have just never impressed me much.

It's interesting to note that a Russian LE agency made a purchase of Gen 3 Glock 17's in 2010.

600

Nephrology
02-18-2012, 10:42 AM
At 1.04 during the muzzle view of the pistol it looks like the front sight is WAY misaligned in its dovetail.

LOKNLOD
02-18-2012, 11:08 AM
At 1.04 during the muzzle view of the pistol it looks like the front sight is WAY misaligned in its dovetail.

That explains why they were missing way left trying to hit the ninja idiot at the end.

TCinVA
02-18-2012, 11:38 AM
You know the gun forum mythology..... The Russians and the Israelis are so much better at war and firearms proficiency than us. Never mind our country being at war for over a decade.

Anyone who throws hatchets during backflips has obviously got the finer points of modern warfare down pat.

David Armstrong
02-18-2012, 01:13 PM
You know the gun forum mythology..... The Russians and the Israelis are so much better at war and firearms proficiency than us. Never mind our country being at war for over a decade.
Not sure that being at war for a long time necessarily has that much to do with being better at war or with firearms proficiency. Putting aside the idea of who is best at what, isn't length of war usually more a matter of political terms than who is a better fighter, especially these days? Or am I missing something in the mix?

JV_
02-18-2012, 01:21 PM
At 1.04 during the muzzle view of the pistol it looks like the front sight is WAY misaligned in its dovetail.

You should have seen my Gen4 Glock's rear sight ... both of them!

machak_silver
02-18-2012, 02:07 PM
The drill which was demonstrated in the last 15 seconds of the video is a standard drill in the one particular unit. The main purpose of that unit is HRT operations, that is why on a certain part of the training instructors demonstrating this kind of drills. Also, it is the way to knock people off the square range mentality and defeat "I can't draw my weapon because there are people downrange". Instead of this you have to draw you weapon but make everything possible not to sweep anybody else but the threat, that includes muzzle aversion positions, changing angles and much more.
When I was a SO in the competition in this unit, I NEVER saw a finger on the trigger, no negligent discharges (considering the fact that more than a 100 people fired more than 200 rounds each with Aks and handguns in just a few hours). I felt way safer than on an IPSC level 3 competition, because the safety (4 rules and it's application) is the skill, you have to train it just as every other aspect of shooting, and that's what they do in the unit.

Talking about the pistol... It will never replace the glock in international market, doubt it will be successful, doubt it will be in the market at all. But now guys are stock with glocks, which have one critical issue - they are not designed and made in Russia, so the politicians have a tough time accepting this fact.

Sorry for my English.

YVK
02-18-2012, 02:19 PM
“You see, the barrel lifts. Here in our pistol the barrel always remains parallel. This allows the pistol to have a high degree of “vizfors” (I have no idea what technical term he is referring too—it was muffled).

He said это позволяет пистолету иметь очень большой ресурс, last word being a "resource" in English. In parlance of our times, he is trying to say that pistol has good capabilities because of this feature.

When I had to shoot my pistol qual during a boot camp training in 1991, the pistol course was three rounds at 25 meters, one handed (bullseye stance) from a Mak. We had three fam-fire rounds, and then three for a score at an IDPA sized target. From that prospective, seeing a dude holding a pistol with an iso grip looks like a quantum leap to me.

Suvorov
02-18-2012, 02:43 PM
He said это позволяет пистолету иметь очень большой ресурс, last word being a "resource" in English. In parlance of our times, he is trying to say that pistol has good capabilities because of this feature.

When I had to shoot my pistol qual during a boot camp training in 1991, the pistol course was three rounds at 25 meters, one handed (bullseye stance) from a Mak. We had three fam-fire rounds, and then three for a score at an IDPA sized target. From that prospective, seeing a dude holding a pistol with an iso grip looks like a quantum leap to me.

Absolutely! Good marksmanship training of simple conscripts aside (six rounds - amazing), one of the obvious disadvantages of an unarmed citizenry is that there is no civilian competitive community that can develop new techniques. The thought of a man like Cooper who fathered the "modern technique" and all the people who followed is simply unimaginable.

Militaries, especially in authoritarian countries are extremely conservative by nature and this is why units like the HSLD ones within the US looked to civilian trainers instead of military trainers to develop their shooting programs. It should not be surprising that other nations lag behind when it comes to small arms skills.

LittleLebowski
02-18-2012, 03:25 PM
Not sure that being at war for a long time necessarily has that much to do with being better at war or with firearms proficiency. Putting aside the idea of who is best at what, isn't length of war usually more a matter of political terms than who is a better fighter, especially these days? Or am I missing something in the mix?

The experience gained from the wars we are in are being directly cross pollinated over to our thriving civilian shooting community. Example (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2620-F2S-Consulting-Practical-Carbine-Feb-25-26-High-View-WV-(NOVA))

WDW
02-18-2012, 04:22 PM
War is the breath of life when it comes to weapons manufacturing and innovation. Almost every innovation in arms technology occurred as a direct result of actual or impending war from the machine gun to the atom bomb. The relationship between war, arms innovation, and its effect on civilian arms is so obvious that if it were a snake it would bite you.

Suvorov
02-18-2012, 05:29 PM
The experience gained from the wars we are in are being directly cross pollinated over to our thriving civilian shooting community. Example (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2620-F2S-Consulting-Practical-Carbine-Feb-25-26-High-View-WV-(NOVA))


This is really a remarkable thing about the US - I can think of no other country that has such a cross pollination between military and civilian when it comes to shooting skills.

Kyle Reese
02-18-2012, 05:35 PM
This is really a remarkable thing about the US - I can think of no other country that has such a cross pollination between military and civilian when it comes to shooting skills.

Nor can I. Tis a very good thing, IMHO.

Joseph B.
02-18-2012, 06:35 PM
I would not mind running a few mag's through one. Looks like it has all the right designing, I am wondering what the trigger, sights and accurcy are like. It almost looked like in the video that the front sight was pushed over to one side?:confused:

David Armstrong
02-19-2012, 12:51 PM
The experience gained from the wars we are in are being directly cross pollinated over to our thriving civilian shooting community. Example (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2620-F2S-Consulting-Practical-Carbine-Feb-25-26-High-View-WV-(NOVA))
OK, I'm following you. I thought you were equating "length of war" with "enhanced shooting skills and better fighters", and that wasn't connecting for me. But I see what you mean. Thanks.

Failure2Stop
02-22-2012, 10:45 AM
That explains why they were missing way left trying to hit the ninja idiot at the end.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

I had an overwhelming urge to put in my own sub-titles while watching the clip.

Seriously though, thanks to those speakers of non-English that willing to let us know what the rest of the world is saying.
Though I think my translation is funnier. . .

fuse
02-22-2012, 11:40 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

I had an overwhelming urge to put in my own sub-titles while watching the clip.

Seriously though, thanks to those speakers of non-English that willing to let us know what the rest of the world is saying.
Though I think my translation is funnier. . .

I will do this if you post or send me your translation.

Currently doing one of those Hitler videos for a friend at work (based on recent inside jokes)

Long tom coffin
02-22-2012, 12:40 PM
Anyone who throws hatchets during backflips has obviously got the finer points of modern warfare down pat.



Careful....you are inviting in hordes of Spetsnaz themed demotivational posters.

EMC
02-22-2012, 06:56 PM
I'm not selling my 9mm Glocks just yet...

Soviet / Russian handguns have just never impressed me much.

It's interesting to note that a Russian LE agency made a purchase of Gen 3 Glock 17's in 2010.

600

Unrelated note. This guys name/organizational tape spells "Homo" backwards.

YVK
02-22-2012, 07:11 PM
ОМОН (it is, obviously, in Cyrillic, with last letter pronounced as "n") is a Russian abbreviation standing for a police equivalent of a military Spetznaz, somewhat similar to U.S. SWAT.

TGS
02-22-2012, 07:40 PM
ОМОН (it is, obviously, in Cyrillic, with last letter pronounced as "n") is a Russian abbreviation standing for a police equivalent of a military Spetznaz, somewhat similar to U.S. SWAT.

Emphasis on the "somewhat."

617

:)

EMC
02-22-2012, 11:31 PM
Emphasis on the "somewhat."

617

:)

You mean our SWAT don't have thermobaric RPG rounds for room clearing? I suppose if you need to go in and police up Chechnya, you need those.

YVK
02-22-2012, 11:46 PM
Don't know what you see there, but to me seems like the dude is just relaxing and smoking counterfeit Marlboro.

EMC
02-22-2012, 11:53 PM
He said это позволяет пистолету иметь очень большой ресурс, last word being a "resource" in English. In parlance of our times, he is trying to say that pistol has good capabilities because of this feature.

When I had to shoot my pistol qual during a boot camp training in 1991, the pistol course was three rounds at 25 meters, one handed (bullseye stance) from a Mak. We had three fam-fire rounds, and then three for a score at an IDPA sized target. From that prospective, seeing a dude holding a pistol with an iso grip looks like a quantum leap to me.

Wow, I thought annual qualification in the US Army was as minimal as you could get. 6 rounds total is amazing.

YVK
02-23-2012, 12:05 AM
Wow, I thought annual qualification in the US Army was as minimal as you could get. 6 rounds total is amazing.

I didn't serve in a regular Army and I am not very sure about it but, to the best of my knowledge, the pistol qual for enlisted/drafted personnel is non-existent, zero rounds. Only officers carry sidearms, regular soldiers do not. The above mentioned qual was given during a boot camp for future reserve officers - which was basically every Soviet man with higher education. Our rifle qual was 15 rounds from AK74 at three targets at 100-400 meters, and we were expressly forbidden to shoot in a semi-auto mode (???). I am sure that regular Army gets a bit more practice from AK.

machak_silver
02-23-2012, 10:08 AM
ОМОН (it is, obviously, in Cyrillic, with last letter pronounced as "n") is a Russian abbreviation standing for a police equivalent of a military Spetznaz, somewhat similar to U.S. SWAT.

Not true. OMON (pronounced as OMON) is a riot control unit, they could be used as a security on any big events, such as sport games, concerts, shows. Their primary focus is not forced entry, hostage rescue.
Russia equivalent of SWAT is SOBR (СОБР).

YVK
02-23-2012, 10:42 AM
Not true. OMON (pronounced as OMON) is a riot control unit, they could be used as a security on any big events, such as sport games, concerts, shows. Their primary focus is not forced entry, hostage rescue.
Russia equivalent of SWAT is SOBR (СОБР).

Doubt that there was a strict role designation, at least, when I was there. I personally know of at least one instance of OMON taking down hostage takers in a very SWAT-like operation in Ekaterinburg prison's medical facility in early 90s. My classmate was a doc in that facility.
I hear that SOBR was supposed to be dismantled some 10 years ago. However, on a big scheme - I don't really care who does what over there.

iakdrago
03-22-2012, 10:23 AM
There was an update on the russian pistol posted on the original blog:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/03/22/arsenal-firearms-strike-one-pistol/

Takeaways:


looks like i was wrong, and the barrel is not fixed--but has short inline recoil movement
50,000 round test? Is this why we have not been hearing from TLG?
The front sight was indeed off in the video--it looks perfectly centered in the provided picture
It looks like SIGis creating the accessories for the new pistol (at this rate i won't be supprised if there is a Kursk version with a t-34 for a front sight post, and a katyusha for the rear).
$780 MSRP according to the comments--if so i will buy it.


Did some google research--here is some further info

http://frankwjames.blogspot.com/2012/03/pistols-both-new-and-knock-offs.html

iakdrago
03-22-2012, 10:30 AM
Not true. OMON (pronounced as OMON) is a riot control unit, they could be used as a security on any big events, such as sport games, concerts, shows. Their primary focus is not forced entry, hostage rescue.
Russia equivalent of SWAT is SOBR (СОБР).

OMON is far from a riot control. Even in Russia ak-74U is not quite legal for riot control. OMON was recently renamed to Otryad Mobil'nyi Osobogo Naznacheniya--meaning Mobile Unit for Special Purpose. It retained the same abbreviation. Can they be used for riot control? Absolutely, however they are a lot more than that. In Russia, there are many overlapping agencies--one could easily get lost trying to figure out who does what and when.

Suvorov
03-22-2012, 12:23 PM
There was an update on the russian pistol posted on the original blog:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/03/22/arsenal-firearms-strike-one-pistol/

Takeaways:


looks like i was wrong, and the barrel is not fixed--but has short inline recoil movement
50,000 round test? Is this why we have not been hearing from TLG?
The front sight was indeed off in the video--it looks perfectly centered in the provided picture
It looks like SIGis creating the accessories for the new pistol (at this rate i won't be supprised if there is a Kursk version with a t-34 for a front sight post, and a katyusha for the rear).
$780 MSRP according to the comments--if so i will buy it.


Did some google research--here is some further info

http://frankwjames.blogspot.com/2012/03/pistols-both-new-and-knock-offs.html

It will be interesting to see where this pistol goes. I have no doubt that it COULD be a good gun (or at least acceptable) but like every other modern piece of Russian equipment they are eying to market to the West (The Sukhoi SuperJet comes to mind), while the product may be good, the Russian track record of product and customer support prevents their products from any serious consideration.

All that said, at an MSRP of $780, I don't see how anyone will consider it over a cheaper and much more proven Glock or M&P unless they just have a hard on for a Russian plastic blaster.

TGS
03-22-2012, 12:26 PM
There was an update on the russian pistol posted on the original blog:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/03/22/arsenal-firearms-strike-one-pistol/

Takeaways:


looks like i was wrong, and the barrel is not fixed--but has short inline recoil movement
50,000 round test? Is this why we have not been hearing from TLG?
The front sight was indeed off in the video--it looks perfectly centered in the provided picture
It looks like SIGis creating the accessories for the new pistol (at this rate i won't be supprised if there is a Kursk version with a t-34 for a front sight post, and a katyusha for the rear).
$780 MSRP according to the comments--if so i will buy it.


Did some google research--here is some further info

http://frankwjames.blogspot.com/2012/03/pistols-both-new-and-knock-offs.html

Thanks for the updates.

From looking at the photos, I can already tell that when using my normal grip, my firing hand middle finger is going to activate the right side ambi mag release; my finger will pretty much be sitting right on top of it. The locking system looks interesting, I wonder how it will fair.

Check out the Long Range Conversion. Obviously of sound thought and purpose.

ETA: Here's another video I just saw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUyOuwNCtNM

Suvorov
03-22-2012, 12:39 PM
So is this a Russian gun marketed from Italy or is it an Italian gun made in Russia ???

iakdrago
03-22-2012, 01:54 PM
.

Check out the Long Range Conversion. Obviously of sound thought and purpose.



Yeah that was the point of my attempted SIG stab :)

jstyer
03-22-2012, 11:17 PM
ETA: Here's another video I just saw.

"Lowest barrel axle in history!"

I dunno... My axles sit pretty low.

Tamara
03-24-2012, 05:52 AM
All that said, at an MSRP of $780, I don't see how anyone will consider it over a cheaper and much more proven Glock or M&P unless they just have a hard on for a Russian plastic blaster.

Do not discount that factor. The second most potent marketing word to American Walter Mittys after "Mossad" is "Spetznaz". Pay some U.S. firearms instructor to come up with a "Spetznaz tactical warrior manual of arms" for the thing and endorse it in ads, offer a version with a flat dark earth frame, and you'll be farting through silk, my friend.

TGS
03-24-2012, 10:16 AM
Do not discount that factor. The second most potent marketing word to American Walter Mittys after "Mossad" is "Spetznaz". Pay some U.S. firearms instructor to come up with a "Spetznaz tactical warrior manual of arms" for the thing and endorse it in ads, offer a version with a flat dark earth frame, and you'll be farting through silk, my friend.

Very true.

I don't think the price of $780 would deter too many people if you can create a perception of value at that price. HK sells pistols at much more than $780...

Especially when the whole "proven" aspect of Glock and M&P isn't bomb-proof to begin with. Proven what? Proven inaccuracy? Proven unreliability? Proven unwillingness of the company to actually fix design issues?

Tamara
03-26-2012, 05:18 AM
I don't think the price of $780 would deter too many people if you can create a perception of value at that price. HK sells pistols at much more than $780...

MSRP of $780 to me sounds like a street price of ~$500, assuming that, like a lot of places, they're basing MSRP on a fantasy markup over distributor pricing. (Of course, this is assuming that the importability status of centerfire self-loading pistols from Russia were to change...)

EMC
03-26-2012, 07:34 AM
When Glock initially broke into the American gun market, Gaston wanted to price it in the 300's but was wisely talked out of it by Karl Walter, who knew that Americans would look down on a cheaply priced import gun. I would dare guess these guys are taking the same approach to pricing.

Tamara
03-26-2012, 07:51 AM
When Glock initially broke into the American gun market, Gaston wanted to price it in the 300's but was wisely talked out of it by Karl Walter, who knew that Americans would look down on a cheaply priced import gun. I would dare guess these guys are taking the same approach to pricing.

*coughHS2000cough*

Still, I remember when Glocks were generally priced head-to-head with the P-series Rugers. (This was before the polymer-frame P-series. And nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em!)