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TCinVA
02-17-2012, 09:34 AM
If you ever wondered what a gunfight in a phonebooth might look like... (http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Drive-Thru-Owner-Shoots-Guy-Who-Tried-To-Rob-Store/MwifoKVaPkq4gdQB-fkrDA.cspx)
More footage here. (http://www.wlwt.com/video/30474274/detail.html)

Some notable features of the event:

- Note how fast it all went down
- Note how many shots were exchanged between the combatants
- Note that the bad guy was hit at least 4 times...including at least one "good hit" to the chest...and took no immediate notice of it
- Note how the bad guy took off for the place he entered from even though that took him within inches of the dude who was shooting at him. Sort of makes you think about the wisdom of mentally acknowledging other possible avenues of exit in case of emergency.

Shellback
02-17-2012, 09:45 AM
I also noted the fact that the teller was compliant and not a threat to the robbers yet the bad guy still attempted to execute him while his back was turned.

Mr. Hahn handled himself very well.

TCinVA
02-17-2012, 09:46 AM
I also noted the fact that the teller was compliant and not a threat to the robbers yet the bad guy still attempted to execute him while his back was turned.


Ya. So much for expecting bad men to behave rationally as a survival plan.

RoyGBiv
02-17-2012, 09:58 AM
Ya. So much for expecting bad men to behave rationally as a survival plan.
+ A zillion.

And kudos to Mr. Hahn for refusing the TV interview.!

Sparks2112
02-17-2012, 10:16 AM
This happened less than 4 miles the "wrong" direction from our shop.

NETim
02-17-2012, 10:18 AM
I may be going out on a limb here, but I have a feeling that both BG's have had prior experience with the legal system.

And it may even be possible the BG didn't possess the handgun legally.

Anyways, I've heard it said once or twice that handguns are notoriously poor manstoppers.

Sparks2112
02-17-2012, 10:35 AM
On reviewing the video we've come to the conclusion the unarmed individual has been in our shop before, but never purchased anything from us.

JDM
02-17-2012, 11:10 AM
On reviewing the video we've come to the conclusion the unarmed individual has been in our shop before, but never purchased anything from us.

That's rather unsettling.

Zhurdan
02-17-2012, 12:03 PM
Wow! BG's rounds were inches away from the store owner! Looks like he had a pretty decent stance and tracked the bad guy all the way out.

On a side note... is that place literally a "drive thru"? As in where the cars drive thru the middle of the building? Never heard of such a thing.

Shellback
02-17-2012, 12:17 PM
On a side note... is that place literally a "drive thru"? As in where the cars drive thru the middle of the building? Never heard of such a thing.

I've seen them in New Orleans and Albuquerque. Not sure if they have them anywhere else though.

LOKNLOD
02-17-2012, 12:22 PM
We have similar ones around here and I've seen them in TX, too.

JeffJ
02-17-2012, 12:25 PM
Also interesting to note that the BG was shooting from a distance that many would consider "can't miss" - he was hauling ass at the time, but still - he managed to completly miss a man-sized target from a matter of feet

RoyGBiv
02-17-2012, 12:31 PM
I've seen them in New Orleans and Albuquerque. Not sure if they have them anywhere else though.

One down the road from me, several others nearby. I've seen them from time to time in many states while traveling the country.

TCinVA
02-17-2012, 12:36 PM
Also interesting to note that the BG was shooting from a distance that many would consider "can't miss" - he was hauling ass at the time, but still - he managed to completly miss a man-sized target from a matter of feet

Hence our tendency to favor some sort of useful visual index for aiming. :D

peterb
02-17-2012, 12:59 PM
Also interesting to note that the BG was shooting from a distance that many would consider "can't miss" - he was hauling ass at the time, but still - he managed to completly miss a man-sized target from a matter of feet

Ed McGivern's book(Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting, 1938) has photos of training to shoot at stationary targets while running.

TGS
02-17-2012, 01:07 PM
Hence our tendency to favor some sort of useful visual index for aiming. :D

Gamer. :p

On the part about being at such a close distance yet still missing, how about that story about the 2 LEO's who were escorting a suspect in an elevator, and the 3 of them got in a gunfight inside an elevator, emptying their pistols, and no one got hit. I can't remember the specifics, I'm sure someone here can reference it/give more information since it's so applicable to this thread.

ToddG
02-17-2012, 02:06 PM
On the part about being at such a close distance yet still missing, how about that story about the 2 LEO's who were escorting a suspect in an elevator, and the 3 of them got in a gunfight inside an elevator, emptying their pistols, and no one got hit. I can't remember the specifics, I'm sure someone here can reference it/give more information since it's so applicable to this thread.

That involved my former unit chief at the U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia (he was a DC cop before becoming a lawyer). Three snubbies emptied in an elevator, no hits.

BaiHu
02-17-2012, 02:06 PM
First off, Mr Hahn was smart enough not to mug for the camera like the DEagle in TX.

Second, this is proof that ISO beats running Weaver any day of the week-LOL!!

Third, I also recall Mr Hahn was quite a H2H fighter back in the late 60's early 70's-gave Bruce Lee a run for his money. ;)

David Armstrong
02-17-2012, 02:09 PM
Gamer. :p

On the part about being at such a close distance yet still missing, how about that story about the 2 LEO's who were escorting a suspect in an elevator, and the 3 of them got in a gunfight inside an elevator, emptying their pistols, and no one got hit. I can't remember the specifics, I'm sure someone here can reference it/give more information since it's so applicable to this thread.
Situations like that generally are not the result of any sort of aiming issue but more often an improper hold and/or trigger pull issue, IME. One of the things I liked about the F.A.T.S. system was the ability to track the muzzle of the gun during the scenario. Had lots of folks who would start with the gun on-target and be almost off the screen by the time the trigger pull was completed.

NickA
02-17-2012, 02:33 PM
We have similar ones around here and I've seen them in TX, too.

Pretty common in south Texas, especially around lakes and rivers. Wouldn't want to lug all that beer and ice yourself would you? :)

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

cmoore
02-17-2012, 03:13 PM
I also noted the fact that the teller was compliant and not a threat to the robbers yet the bad guy still attempted to execute him while his back was turned.

Mr. Hahn handled himself very well.

Supports the first post in this thread that's a classic read:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1285487_Street_robberies_and_you___The_Basics.html

bbqbologna
02-17-2012, 07:19 PM
I used to pass this store on my way to and from work, almost every day, for a couple of years.

As some people commented, yes, the convenience store is a drive-through, which is pretty common in this part of Ohio. I actually stopped there once, on my way home from work one night. Never did that again. The location is totally sketchy, and there are a couple of good spots for criminals to ambush patrons.

The owner was very lucky.

nar472
02-17-2012, 07:44 PM
Wow amazing how fast it happens and he put how many rounds in him and the perp still ran out. Scary stuff.

JodyH
02-17-2012, 07:55 PM
Caliber?

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nar472
02-17-2012, 08:05 PM
"He suffered four gunshot wounds to his chest, abdomen, leg and arm."
According to the article, does not say what caliber that would be interesting to know.

UNK
02-17-2012, 09:12 PM
"He suffered four gunshot wounds to his chest, abdomen, leg and arm."
According to the article, does not say what caliber that would be interesting to know.

Probably a mere 9mm. If it had been .45 he would have exploded on the spot. :rolleyes:

nar472
02-17-2012, 09:30 PM
Probably a mere 9mm. If it had been .45 he would have exploded on the spot. :rolleyes:

:D

TCinVA
02-18-2012, 12:42 AM
The .45 ACP will actually go back in time and kill a bad guy's ancestors...wiping his existence permanently from the cosmos.

UNK
02-18-2012, 06:17 AM
The .45 ACP will actually go back in time and kill a bad guy's ancestors...wiping his existence permanently from the cosmos.

Time travel in other words. Good info to have. 357 Sig would have done the job. It does have that well documented "Lightning bolt effect"
I wonder if the dude was hopped up?

Al T.
02-18-2012, 08:03 AM
I wonder if the dude was hopped up?

Adrenaline is a very powerful drug. Once the BGs "flight" reflex kicked in, I'd imagine his adrenaline level was pegged out.

fixer
02-18-2012, 08:43 AM
On reviewing the video we've come to the conclusion the unarmed individual has been in our shop before, but never purchased anything from us.

lovely. I remember your story about the unruly customer. be careful over there.

Kyle Reese
02-18-2012, 09:28 AM
I also noted the fact that the teller was compliant and not a threat to the robbers yet the bad guy still attempted to execute him while his back was turned.

Mr. Hahn handled himself very well.

If you listen to the liberal "experts" on TV, the bad guys just want your money, not your life. Don't resist. Be a good victim.

Shellback
02-18-2012, 10:53 AM
If you listen to the liberal "experts" on TV, the bad guys just want your money, not your life. Don't resist. Be a good victim.

"Sometimes it is far better just to let it happen and then deal with the aftermath," said Helen Jones, co-chairwoman of the Rape Crisis Federation.

For Pete's sake don't defend yourself! More great advice from "rape prevention experts"...

"Claim you have a sexually transmitted disease (STD) or your period: urinate, fake a convulsion, even vomit." - http://www.watpa.org/wcbol/pub/rapeprev.htm

"It may sound disgusting, but putting your fingers into you throat and making yourself vomit usually gets results." - Illinois State Police http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/saconfronted.cfm

Kyle Reese
02-18-2012, 10:56 AM
"Sometimes it is far better just to let it happen and then deal with the aftermath," said Helen Jones, co-chairwoman of the Rape Crisis Federation.

For Pete's sake don't defend yourself! More great advice from "rape prevention experts"...

"Claim you have a sexually transmitted disease (STD) or your period: urinate, fake a convulsion, even vomit." - http://www.watpa.org/wcbol/pub/rapeprev.htm

"It may sound disgusting, but putting your fingers into you throat and making yourself vomit usually gets results." - Illinois State Police http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/saconfronted.cfm


None of which are likely to deter someone who is criminally insane or under the influence of drugs.

Shellback
02-18-2012, 11:23 AM
None of which are likely to deter someone who is criminally insane or under the influence of drugs.

Exactly, they're grooming people to be victims instead of fighting for themselves and what's right. F that.

Nephrology
02-18-2012, 12:32 PM
"Sometimes it is far better just to let it happen and then deal with the aftermath," said Helen Jones, co-chairwoman of the Rape Crisis Federation.

For Pete's sake don't defend yourself! More great advice from "rape prevention experts"...

"Claim you have a sexually transmitted disease (STD) or your period: urinate, fake a convulsion, even vomit." - http://www.watpa.org/wcbol/pub/rapeprev.htm

"It may sound disgusting, but putting your fingers into you throat and making yourself vomit usually gets results." - Illinois State Police http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/saconfronted.cfm

How disgusting. Don't these people have sisters, daughters, wives?

If my sister were to be assaulted by a rapist the only place I would want her index finger going is straight on the face of the trigger, and the only thing she should be spitting in the direction of her attacker would be jacked hollow points.

Chuck Haggard
02-18-2012, 12:51 PM
Exactly, they're grooming people to be victims instead of fighting for themselves and what's right. F that.


Was it Col. Cooper who said "the proper response to an armed robbery is a shot armed robber" or words to that effect?

TexBuckeye
02-18-2012, 09:17 PM
How disgusting. Don't these people have sisters, daughters, wives?

If my sister were to be assaulted by a rapist the only place I would want her index finger going is straight on the face of the trigger, and the only thing she should be spitting in the direction of her attacker would be jacked hollow points.

Quoted for truth.

bcauz3y
03-02-2012, 02:34 PM
Did anyone notice the proper stance of the shop owner, and the fact that he took the time to place his shots, and make them count, albeit without landing an incapacitating blow.

Still, it goes back to the old saying "Speed is fine, but accuracy is final".

:)

barstoolguru
03-06-2012, 02:06 PM
Once equal force came into play the BG didn't want anything to do with it and left his partner. They were big and bad when they were the only ones with a gun