Wilson trigger bar lifespan ?

[Duke]

Forgive the question.

2 of my Wilson trigger bar guns are getting a bit of hiccup in the DA pull. Round count in both cases is 2k ish.

Neither of these guns needed the bar fit/stoned in any way and functioned with buttery smoothness from day one until lately.

So my carry gun is nearing the same round count and still utterly smooth. Can I expect it will get a hiccup soon as well?

If one gently stones a gritty bar until smooth - does that solve it from now on or will the problem arise again?


Thanks for the input

If it matters the 2 gritty Guns have elite II hammers. Carry gun has a spurless Allegheny arms

[cyberiad]

I bought a used 92A1 with a Wilson trigger bar installed (by Wilson as part of an action job) that was said to have had 4000 rounds on it and I've fired another 3000 myself and I haven't noticed anything unusual about the trigger pull. It also has an Elite II hammer. I have another 92 that has a Wilson trigger bar but it only has a few hundred rounds through it. What does 'hiccup' mean?

[Duke]

I bought a used 92A1 with a Wilson trigger bar installed (by Wilson as part of an action job) that was said to have had 4000 rounds on it and I've fired another 3000 myself and I haven't noticed anything unusual about the trigger pull. It also has an Elite II hammer. I have another 92 that has a Wilson trigger bar but it only has a few hundred rounds through it. What does 'hiccup' mean?

A slight but always present sticking point as the hammer arcs back. Happens at about 2/3 through the DA trigger pull

[cyberiad]

Is it possible the trigger bar is moving outward slightly when the trigger is pulled and rubbing up against the right grip panel? I did polish the inside of the trigger bar (the part that faces the frame) I installed with a stone and then Flitz but I can't tell much of a difference.

What mainspring do you use? Have you tried a different one?

[Jared]

2k is an absurdly short lifespan for a part that is supposed to last longer than the factory part. I'd suspect something else is going on other than the trigger bar, although what exactly, I can't say.

[Matt O]

Even the stock trigger bar shouldn’t be failing at that kind of round count. Are there any burrs on the rear part of the frame? Any issues with the trigger bar spring?


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[Duke]

Trigger springs in all cases is Wilson 14LB. Trigger pull is the same with and without the grips installed. The trigger bars aren’t rubbing the grip panel. All is in the same order as day one when they were all smooth.

I too think 2k is very short for a hardened part to begin getting burrs from use. Some small imperfections in the engagement surface can be seen.

My hope is someone will ring in (with 1000’s more Rounds on their gun) and say it’s just wear in.

[Matt O]

FWIW I’ve got 9k on the Wilson trigger bar in my main practice gun. No hiccups in the trigger pull to date. The finish on the frame where the trigger bar rubs is completely worn off.

Can you carefully pull the trigger with the slide and right side grip off (catching the hammer) and see if you can identify where it’s occurring?


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[Duke]

Edit.

[Duke]

FWIW I’ve got 9k on the Wilson trigger bar in my main practice gun. No hiccups in the trigger pull to date. The finish on the frame where the trigger bar rubs is completely worn off.

Can you carefully pull the trigger with the slide and right side grip off (catching the hammer) and see if you can identify where it’s occurring?


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It looks to be as the hammer, trigger bar and hammer strut all align. Is it possible that I’m feeling the hammer strut compress the spring and it’s just now causing the spring to catch slightly?



Hammer struts has a smooth portion rubbed in to them

[Matt O]

It looks to be as the hammer, trigger bar and hammer strut all align. Is it possible that I’m feeling the hammer strut compress the spring and it’s just now causing the spring to catch slightly?



Hammer struts has a smooth portion rubbed in to them

Any burrs on the spring or on the hammer spring cap where the spring rotates? Have you tried polishing the bottom of that spring so that it rotates evenly and making sure it's greased or lubricated?

[pastaslinger]

I don't know if this is a common issue but I've seen at least one of the 14# springs that came with the Wilson bar have an inner diameter that is too small for the hammer strut causing a really shitty trigger pull for the trigger weight. The trigger pull was actually better with the 16# Beretta spring. Switching to the 13# Wilson fixed it (for some reason only the 14# had the size issue).

I really doubt that the actual trigger bar is failing at 2k rounds, that seems pretty low. Did you or the previous owner do any other trigger work? Any polishing/cutting of sear or hammer engagement surfaces?

[Duke]

I don't know if this is a common issue but I've seen at least one of the 14# springs that came with the Wilson bar have an inner diameter that is too small for the hammer strut causing a really shitty trigger pull for the trigger weight. The trigger pull was actually better with the 16# Beretta spring. Switching to the 13# Wilson fixed it (for some reason only the 14# had the size issue).

I really doubt that the actual trigger bar is failing at 2k rounds, that seems pretty low. Did you or the previous owner do any other trigger work? Any polishing/cutting of sear or hammer engagement surfaces?

Negative on the work.

All guns/parts new - I will check the spring diameter though.

[JonInWA]

Why not contact Wilson directly, and send it to them for examination/replacement?

Best, Jon

[Jeep]

Any burrs on the spring or on the hammer spring cap where the spring rotates? Have you tried polishing the bottom of that spring so that it rotates evenly and making sure it's greased or lubricated?

Langdon Tactical polishes the bottom of its hammer springs, perhaps to prevent just such an issue.

[Duke]

Langdon Tactical polishes the bottom of its hammer springs, perhaps to prevent just such an issue.

Bottom and top of springs are polished.

Reason I’m picking at the trigger bar:

Ernest commented at the class in April that catches in double action are quite often some
Portion of the trigger bar, and suggested the Wilson bar to smooth out the rough feeling factory set up

[CraigS]

Look at the sear and hammer contact area. just a few weeks ago I first noticed that, in DA, the sear is moved by the hammer before the trigger bar comes into play. I have polished that section of the hammer on mine.

[Sal Picante]

2k is an absurdly short lifespan for a part that is supposed to last longer than the factory part. I'd suspect something else is going on other than the trigger bar, although what exactly, I can't say.

These are the big questions:
1.) Are the guns from Wilson?
2.) Did you, or wilson actually replace with the wilson trigger bar as part of a trigger job?

Wilson doesn't actually put a WC trigger bar into the WC guns. You have to fit it, or send the gun in for a trigger job and ask them to fit it.

Regarding the 2K rounds before they got soft: Yeah. That's a bit below my average experience, but not out of the norm... I'd wear grooves in the stock bar after ~2 weeks of dry fire when I was doing that for ~hour ever night.

[Duke]

These are the big questions:
1.) Are the guns from Wilson?
2.) Did you, or wilson actually replace with the wilson trigger bar as part of a trigger job?

Wilson doesn't actually put a WC trigger bar into the WC guns. You have to fit it, or send the gun in for a trigger job and ask them to fit it.

Regarding the 2K rounds before they got soft: Yeah. That's a bit below my average experience, but not out of the norm... I'd wear grooves in the stock bar after ~2 weeks of dry fire when I was doing that for ~hour ever night.

The Guns in question are Brig tacs - both of these purchased new from Wilson

The trigger bars - also purchased new from Wilson

Dropped in by me. No fitting. None needed - full function in Da/SA with reduced over travel from day one.


I want to love these guns for the long run. If this part is known to wear that quickly, my enthusiasm will be heavily dampened

[Duke]

Les - please overlook my misreading of your post.

Wilson told me today that they were surprised the parts dropped in with no issues.

It was then that your post became clear to me.

Again - my fault.

So that leads us to - if I fit them/have them fit will they still do go soft and wear in 2-3k rounds/dry fire?

[CraigS]

As a data point, I have installed to Wilson trigger bars a part of LTT TJIBs. Neither bar required any fitting by me.

[GyroF-16]

Another data point:I got a Wilson Trigger bar from LTT shortly before I took the Langdon class in April.
Mine also dropped right in, no fitting required. I was under the impression that the early production Wilson trigger bars required fitting, but more recent ones usually did not. I have easily 2k on this trigger bar and haven’t noticed anything changing (yet).

[JonInWA]

Wilson modified the triggerbar after it had been out on the market for a bit; too many individuals got a wee bit too aggressive with their files in their attempts to properly adjust to their Berettas, ruining the part.

My understanding is that the contemporary WC Beretta triggerbars are likely in the majority of cases to be a drop-in proposition. I believe the production change was made in January of 2017.

That was the case with mine that I acquired and put in my 92D last year, but then again the 92D is DAO and doesn't have a sear, so even the older WC triggerbar likely would have been a drop-in proposition on a 92D.

My 92D with its WC triggerbar is running superbly, with a magnificent triggerpull; the WC component removed the "hitch" towards the end of the triggerpull caused by wear in the OEM triggerbar.

Best, Jon

[Sal Picante]

Les - please overlook my misreading of your post.

Wilson told me today that they were surprised the parts dropped in with no issues.

It was then that your post became clear to me.

Again - my fault.

So that leads us to - if I fit them/have them fit will they still do go soft and wear in 2-3k rounds/dry fire?

Mine have years of shooting and dry fire on them. I am on my original WC trigger bars. They are not wearing at all...

I'd urge you to send 'em back! Was there an issue with the heat treating, etc?

They should make it right... Also, confirm you bought the right part from them...
(https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-Ultimate-Action-Tune-Kit-Beretta-90-Series/productinfo/748/)

[Doc_Glock]

As another data point, I had the exact problem as the OC, a slight hiccup in the DA pull. Inspection showed the Wilson Trigger bar (installed as part of a trigger job by Langdon) had grooves and burrs in it. I was able to easily stone it smooth and the hiccup went away. I have a total of 3000 rounds of live fire on the gun. It remains to be seen if the problem will reoccur.

@Duke (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=16355) have you seen the problem come back after removing burrs?

[LangdonTactical]

First of all, the trigger bar is the weak link in having a good DA trigger on almost any gun. This remains true for the Beretta 92 Series as well. The contact point of the trigger bar that hits the DA hook on the hammer is the culprit of the hickup in the DA pull. The trigger bar snags on a grove that gets beat into that spot by the sear, not by the DA hook on the hammer. This happens to both the factory bar and the Wilson Trigger bar, although the Wilson Trigger bar is much less susceptible to this issue as it is made from a better material, heat treated better and finish better as well. Having a smooth DA hook on the hammer help as does nock the sharp corner off the sear where it contacts the trigger bar.

Yes, you can stone this spot back smooth and it will fix the issue. It may or may not come back depending on several issues including the heat treatment of the trigger bar. I wish I had the magical answer for you guys, and I am working on that for sure, but right now the Wilson Trigger bar is the best answer.

Hope this helps!

[Sal Picante]

The trigger bar snags on a grove that gets beat into that spot by the sear, not by the DA hook on the hammer.

Great info - I always wondered why the DAO models weren't quite as "wear prone" (It just took a bit longer, honestly, but it still happened after ~ 2 months... )

[Duke]

Been a while and Playing catch up.

I did stone the bar in the rough feeling gun and it helped to a degree but doesn’t feel as it once did.
Though I’m certainly not qualified to make TJIB parts, the bar engagement surfaces look as smoot as feasible.

That said - the minor amount of stoning with an ultra fine spyderco stone wouldn’t have touched a quality knife edge to any appreciable degree.

Somewhere I thought the Wilson trigger was harder steel than the oem unit.

If that’s true things get weird when you consider the oem 20Lb hammer spring vs the 13lb unit a lot of us are running.

[Doc_Glock]

That said - the minor amount of stoning with an ultra fine spyderco stone wouldn’t have touched a quality knife edge to any appreciable degree.

That is exactly what I noticed. It took very little effort to remove metal fro the trigger bar.