RIP 2010 RAV4. Soliciting advice for replacement

[Nephrology]

So, last night, I got rear ended for the third time in 6 months, this time at a much higher rate of speed. Ended up as car #3/4 in the pileup. Myself and my girlfriend are OK - just shook up and generally whiplash-y. My RAV4 (gray vehicle), however, is probably toast.

https://i.imgur.com/BJvuJ1K.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/AHmo8Er.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BlYcAsS.jpg

Filed my claim and from what I can tell it looks likely to end up as a total loss. Not sure of the KBB value of the vehicle, but basically am planning to use it as a down payment on a CPO/lightly used vehicle to replace it.

This is where I'd like some advice. After this wreck, and my luck in CO in general, I am looking to upgrade to something slightly bigger. Essentially want a truck w/o the pickup bed. The 4Runner is so far my top choice, but the Nissan XTerra would definitely be a consideration if I come across one in good condition on the used market.

Any other vehicles to look at? Don't want to break the bank on this one, probably want to keep it at/under $30k for a used model, but open to any/all input at present time.

[blues]

Glad you're okay. That's a bad run of luck.

I'm prejudiced, but as the happy owner of a 2016 4Runner, (Trail Edition Premium), I highly recommend it.

(And so does virtually every independent review of the most reliable and long lasting vehicles. There are other excellent vehicles on those lists worth looking into as well, but I have no or limited experience with them personally.)

[RevolverRob]

Toyota 4Runner
Honda Pilot

But remember bigger doesn't always equal better - You really want to investigate the crash ratings of anything you buy. The advantage of the CRV/HRV/Rav4/CX5 line of vehicles is - they crash test at car levels of safety - Trucks crash test differently. FYI - I noticed the other day that the Honda offers the HRV with a manual transmission.

Go cool and old school - Buy an FJ40. :cool:

PS: Also glad you're okay. I mean sorta...you're cool...for a Glock guy. ;)

[NH Shooter]

IMO, 4Runner would be a good choice - especially if you do any off-roading beyond dirt roads. If I was in the position to get a new vehicle for myself, I'd be giving the 4Runner a serious look.

You may also want to take a look at the Subaru Outback while you're at it - long-lasting, excellent quality, top scores for crash rating and their AWD systems are very capable.

[Duelist]

Been looking at getting my wife a RAV4 or CRV. Maybe a Forester or Outback.

Your RAV4 looks like it did good in the accident: neither of you got hurt.

I’d either get another one, or get the 4Runner.

[fixer]

CPO 4runner. Try to find an SR5 premium package.

I had a 2016 SR5 premium that was awesome. I traded up to a Limited because 3rd row and full leather seats.

[Nephrology]

Been looking at getting my wife a RAV4 or CRV. Maybe a Forester or Outback.

Your RAV4 looks like it did good in the accident: neither of you got hurt.

I’d either get another one, or get the 4Runner.

Yeah, I was quite happy with my RAV4. Especially pissed because I took great care of it and was looking forward to driving it into the ground (68k miles, just finished paying off the loan). I've heard the newer 4th generation RAVs (2011-present) aren't as good as the 3rd generation cars and I don't want to buy something with 100k+ miles on it at this point, so i'm probably going to be looking at a newer car.

[Duelist]

Yeah, I was quite happy with my RAV4. Especially pissed because I took great care of it and was looking forward to driving it into the ground (68k miles, just finished paying off the loan). I've heard the newer 4th generation RAVs (2011-present) aren't as good as the 3rd generation cars and I don't want to buy something with 100k+ miles on it at this point, so i'm probably going to be looking at a newer car.

Coworker has a 2013 Limited she bought last year. We drove it all over creation to client sites Friday, and she let me drive part of it. I quite liked it. Hers has about 70k on it.

[Nephrology]

Coworker has a 2013 Limited she bought last year. We drove it all over creation to client sites Friday, and she let me drive part of it. I quite liked it. Hers has about 70k on it.

Is it for sale by any chance :D

[Duelist]

Is it for sale by any chance :D

No, she loves it. I’ve been looking around. There are quite a few pre-2013 and post-2013 RAV4s around at not terrible prices - easy to keep under $20k, quite possible to keep under $15k. 2013 is an easy year to mark for my neophyte eyes: 2012 and earlier had the spare tire on the back, side-swing door. 2013 and newer have a lift gate and tire under the cargo floor. Limited has a power lift gate. Wife would appreciate that. Don’t remember if other trim levels have or offer that.

[Nephrology]

No, she loves it. I’ve been looking around. There are quite a few pre-2013 and post-2013 RAV4s around at not terrible prices - easy to keep under $20k, quite possible to keep under $15k. 2013 is an easy year to mark for my neophyte eyes: 2012 and earlier had the spare tire on the back, side-swing door. 2013 and newer have a lift gate and tire under the cargo floor. Limited has a power lift gate. Wife would appreciate that. Don’t remember if other trim levels have or offer that.

I had the Sport edition, which I liked - slightly tighter suspension so it handled much more like a sedan in many ways. I'll definitely look at other RAVs, ultimately it will come down to what I get from my insurance and what things are priced at around here. I would like to finance <50% of the vehicle if possible, but we'll see. I would be open to another RAV if it ends up being the more fiscally responsible choice vs. the 4Runner.

[Jim Watson]

One friend has Rogue. Another has a Pilot. Three with CRVs. Two have Outbacks. All are pleased.
One couple was looking at Subaru but inexplicably bought the Volvo crossover, the which I cannot understand.
One friend called the first gen CRV "the greatest baby hauler known to man," but got something bigger after a wreck injured her and scared the children.

[Duelist]

Just ran your car and what data you mentioned through the KBB online app. Your car, in my area, would have had a private party sale value of about $12k. Trade in is a bit less.

[Duelist]

I had the Sport edition, which I liked - slightly tighter suspension so it handled much more like a sedan in many ways. I'll definitely look at other RAVs, ultimately it will come down to what I get from my insurance and what things are priced at around here. I would like to finance <50% of the vehicle if possible, but we'll see. I would be open to another RAV if it ends up being the more fiscally responsible choice vs. the 4Runner.

If you like sedan-handling, you might not be as happy with a 4Runner. Very truck handling. And truck mileage, too. We’re looking to change from a 4WD Durango my wife has trouble seeing out of and doesn’t really like to drive for something with better visibility for her and handling she will like better. While we will both miss the power and cargo capacity, we will not miss the thirsty V8’s gas pump diet.

[Nephrology]

Just ran your car and what data you mentioned through the KBB online app. Your car, in my area, would have had a private party sale value of about $12k. Trade in is a bit less.

That's not a bad start.

[Nephrology]

If you like sedan-handling, you might not be as happy with a 4Runner. Very truck handling. And truck mileage, too. We’re looking to change from a 4WD Durango my wife has trouble seeing out of and doesn’t really like to drive for something with better visibility for her and handling she will like better. While we will both miss the power and cargo capacity, we will not miss the thirsty V8’s gas pump diet.

I might be able to live with the truck handling, but the mileage will be something of a bummer. Definitely don't want an 8cyl; V6 would be OK. I'll widen my search to crossovers like the RAV4, CRV etc. I do like the idea of something bigger though, after this incident. I could get used to driving a heavier vehicle if only for the (potentially imagined) peace of mind.

[Dan_S]

My 4.0L Taco gets around 20/21 mpg, rural/highway driving.

I know a guy that has a ‘17 with the 3.6L, and gets 24ish under similar driving conditions.

My old 4Runner was awesome, and I wish I could replace it. Financial reasons aside, I would in a heartbeat.

Just a thought - unless you’re putting steel bumpers on the 4Runner, I don’t know that it’ll fair substantially better than anything else when impacted.

Personally, I think the newer Subaru Foresters are hard to beat. Plenty of clearance, and a proven drive train. If you don’t need all the bells and whistles, they’re pretty affordable too.

[Clusterfrack]

Subaru Crosstrek is a good option.

And— you came out of that ok. Looks like it could have been so much worse.

[Nephrology]

My 4.0L Taco gets around 20/21 mpg, rural/highway driving.

I know a guy that has a ‘17 with the 3.6L, and gets 24ish under similar driving conditions.

My old 4Runner was awesome, and I wish I could replace it. Financial reasons aside, I would in a heartbeat.

Just a thought - unless you’re putting steel bumpers on the 4Runner, I don’t know that it’ll fair substantially better than anything else when impacted.

Personally, I think the newer Subaru Foresters are hard to beat. Plenty of clearance, and a proven drive train. If you don’t need all the bells and whistles, they’re pretty affordable too.

My girlfriend has the 3.6L Taco, so I probably won't go with that if only because it seems silly to have two pickups. I'll look into the Subarus, though from what I recall I always felt that they were ~$5k extra vs. comparable Honda/Toyota offerings without offering a ton more. I guess we'll see what the local CPO market looks like once all of the checks clear.

Also won't lie... I may be turning this accident simply into the excuse I've been looking for to upgrade to a 4Runner ;) we'll see how things look financially - a crossover would probably be a financially more sensible option.


Subaru Crosstrek is a good option.

And— you came out of that ok. Looks like it could have been so much worse.

You're very right. Driver of the white van went to the hospital with what looked like an ankle fracture from the couple minutes I spent assessing him before EMS arrived. the F150 that caused the accident was doing easily 50mph; my car was rolling to a stop. Feeling very sore today, but also very lucky.

[Dan_S]

I wasn’t suggesting a Taco, but rather, that the 4.0 and 3.6 litre V6 offerings from Toyota get substantially better fuel mileage than some of the previous iterations.

[Nephrology]

I wasn’t suggesting a Taco, but rather, that the 4.0 and 3.6 litre V6 offerings from Toyota get substantially better fuel mileage than some of the previous iterations.

Ahh copy that. I certainly wouldn't mind a 4Runner, as you may be able to tell ;)

[Dan_S]

And I wouldn’t discourage that. They’re the only option for a reliable body-on-frame SUV at this point in time.


For the money though, the Subaru is all-around more affordable, I think, though obviously they’re not directly comparable.

[Nephrology]

And I wouldn’t discourage that. They’re the only option for a reliable body-on-frame SUV at this point in time.


For the money though, the Subaru is all-around more affordable, I think, though obviously they’re not directly comparable.

the Forester? I'll take a look. What are some of the selling points of the subaru? I remember looking at them when I bought the RAV 5 years ago and felt they were overpriced vs. the RAV4/CRV, but I was also not considering a 4Runner then either.

[Dan_S]

The Subaru AWD system is the most mature on the market, in my opinion.

They’re pretty bullet proof rigs, very few common/known issues, etc.

They hold up well, and the newer ones get pretty ridiculously good fuel mileage for the capabilities of the vehicle.


I wouldn’t limit my recommendation to the Forester, just that it’s the most comparable to the 4Runner, unless you want to look at the new Ascent model.


Here in the rural northeast, pretty much every other car is a Subaru. There’s a reason for that.

[Nephrology]

The Subaru AWD system is the most mature on the market, in my opinion.

They’re pretty bullet proof rigs, very few common/known issues, etc.

They hold up well, and the newer ones get pretty ridiculously good fuel mileage for the capabilities of the vehicle.


I wouldn’t limit my recommendation to the Forester, just that it’s the most comparable to the 4Runner, unless you want to look at the new Ascent model.


Here in the rural northeast, pretty much every other car is a Subaru. There’s a reason for that.

Thanks for the input. I'll definitely keep my eyes peeled then. Reliability is definitely my #1 priority in a car; I loved that quality in my RAV and would be unhappy if my next vehicle had fleas.

[blues]

the Forester? I'll take a look. What are some of the selling points of the subaru? I remember looking at them when I bought the RAV 5 years ago and felt they were overpriced vs. the RAV4/CRV, but I was also not considering a 4Runner then either.

FWIW, my buddy who owns two 4Runners, a '97 and a '15, said he'd probably be pretty happy driving his wife's Subaru, (Forester, I think), if it was a bit bigger and accommodated his size better. He's a few inches taller and a fair amount stouter than I am. I haven't sat in one so I don't know.

[Poconnor]

I had a rav4. I liked it but it was small. I bought my wife a 4Runner and she loves it.

[NH Shooter]

The Subaru AWD system is the most mature on the market, in my opinion.



This.

FWIW, the CRV AWD system is anemic, Rav4 no better. There is a reason for the high density of Subaru ownership in the northeast, and I can attest first-hand to their ability in winter weather. Put a set of winter tires on a Subie and you end up with near-snowmobile ability. In the end, the extra $$ you are paying for the Subie is for its excellent AWD system, which is perhaps the most capable available in a cross over.

https://www.consumerreports.org/video/view/cars/auto-test-track/4503044972001/awd-showdown-subaru-forester-vs-honda-cr-v-vs-toyota-rav4/

[idahojess]

I'm averaging around 18 MPG in my 2018 4-runner. I don't believe I lead foot it (the little eco light is usually on). That's fine with me, but if mileage is important, the 4 runner is kind of heavy...

I liked the new CRV and the Subaru Outback when I was test driving, but I thought the 4-runner was better for me. But I don't put a ton of miles on my vehicles each year.

[NH Shooter]

FWIW, we just got a 2018 Toyota Highlander AWD for my wife (because that's what she wanted). Really nice vehicle - very comfortable, quiet, smooth riding and very spacious. Not bad on gas either, around 26 highway and 20 to 22 combined. Did I mention it's very spacious?

If you felt a bit cramped in the RAV4 and you don't need the hard core off-road capability of the 4Runner, the Highlander is worth a look too.

[Clusterfrack]

Here in the Portland area, there are lots of Subaru Foresters, in part because they are popular among lesbians.

https://priceonomics.com/how-an-ad-campaign-made-lesbians-fall-in-love-with/

[blues]

Here in the Portland area, there are lots of Subaru Foresters, in part because there are popular among lesbians.

https://priceonomics.com/how-an-ad-campaign-made-lesbians-fall-in-love-with/

Do they offer it with a stick?




(I hear Stephanie knocking at my door...donning ghillie suit)

:p

[trailrunner]

I still have my 2002 Rav4 (and it's a stick shift -- 148k miles with the original clutch). I've had it 16.5 years. It's a perfect car for me. I can fit my bike inside or several bikes on the roof. I've hauled kayaks on the roof, gone camping in it, hauled a lot of stuff to my rental home when I still had it. It's been reliable, with a very low cost of maintenance.

My wife has a 2004 Highlander. She has had it 14.5 years. Very nice car - rides nice, and has enough power. Now that our kids are grown, she will probably replace it with a Rav4. She wants a new car, but the Highlander keeps running and running, and we can't justify getting rid of it just because she wants something new and shiny. Again, low cost of ownership and very reliable. She has about 145k miles on it.

[Jason M]

Add another vote for the 4Runner. I have had several over the years and they have been nothing but totally reliable.

[HCM]

My girlfriend has the 3.6L Taco, so I probably won't go with that if only because it seems silly to have two pickups. I'll look into the Subarus, though from what I recall I always felt that they were ~$5k extra vs. comparable Honda/Toyota offerings without offering a ton more. I guess we'll see what the local CPO market looks like once all of the checks clear.

Also won't lie... I may be turning this accident simply into the excuse I've been looking for to upgrade to a 4Runner ;) we'll see how things look financially - a crossover would probably be a financially more sensible option.


Two Tacos is the start of a Toyota Horde ;-)

http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-toyota-horde

[NH Shooter]

Here in the Portland area, there are lots of Subaru Foresters, in part because they are popular among lesbians.

https://priceonomics.com/how-an-ad-campaign-made-lesbians-fall-in-love-with/

Subaru is IMO a cult brand. The gay-lesbian cult was their first with Billy Jean King in their advertisements. But IMO, it is the least of the next two cults Subaru established.

The next cult began in 2002 with the introduction of the WRX to the North American market (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a4306/history-subaru-impreza-wrx/). Subaru was a major player in the road rally racing circuit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_World_Rally_Team) at the time and the 2002 Impreza WRX was a huge hit with American fast-car enthusiasts. Having owned two myself, a 2006 WRX and a 200 Forester XT (which was modified to about 380 BHP at the crank), I can attest to the major fun factor of turbocharged Subarus. To this day there is a HUGE aftermarket for these wicked-fast cars.

Here's my Forester XT which recorded a 12.9 ET @ 107 MPH at New England Speedway in 2011;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/fxt-50.jpg


Watch this video>>>> Subaru Setting Mt. Washington Hill Climb Record (https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a10290487/travis-pastrana-mt-washington-hillclimb-record/) <<<<Watch this video

The third and most recent is a what I call the tree-hugger/dog-lover cult. As a dog over myself (my wife and I are involved with a local dog rescue organization here in NH) the Subaru commercials featuring dogs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rp7n5vsM5U) truly resonate.

Call me an unabashed Subaru enthusiast.

[blues]

4Runners and Subarus are the vehicles of choice here in the western NC mountains, with good reason. Performance matters on gravel, clay, mud and snow. There's plenty forest trails as well.

I think they're pretty popular with all of our communities, straight, gay, outdoor / adventure oriented and even the tourists and leaf peepers, though many of them like two wheels as well.

You've got some good suggestions, Neph. Hopefully the next one lasts a dozen years or more until you start driving around in a German luxury vehicle. ;)

[Nephrology]

4Runners and Subarus are the vehicles of choice here in the western NC mountains, with good reason. Performance matters on gravel, clay, mud and snow. There's plenty forest trails as well.

I think they're pretty popular with all of our communities, straight, gay, outdoor / adventure oriented and even the tourists and leaf peepers, though many of them like two wheels as well.

You've got some good suggestions, Neph. Hopefully the next one lasts a dozen years or more until you start driving around in a German luxury vehicle. ;)

Good god I hope so. I bought that RAV4 in 2013 and have never had an accident of any kind until I moved to CO. Since then I have been rear ended 3x, hit and run on my parked car once, and also managed to drive my car into a muddy ditch that required having the center exhaust and radiator replaced. I am cursed. This new vehicle better bring with it much better luck.

I literally just took delivery of it from the auto body shop 10 days ago, where it had its bumper replaced from the LAST time I got rear ended...

edit: after looking at prices more carefully, it seems like I could get a lot more car for my money with the Forester or the Crosstrek... as tempting as the 4Runner is (and I will definitely take a close look at them), they may not fit in my small apt. complex garage (...ask my girlfriend about her Tacoma) and I could save ~8g vs a 4runner with equivalent mileage/year/options.

[RevolverRob]

Here ya go man - http://www.wirewheel.com/1966-Austin-Mini-Honda-V-TEC-For-Sale.html

Full roll cage, six point harnesses, AWD, and a horsepower-to-weight ratio that will make sure you never get hit, because no one will ever catch you. And this will definitely fit in your garage.

Don't leave home without an extra pair of pants.

[Nephrology]

Here ya go man - http://www.wirewheel.com/1966-Austin-Mini-Honda-V-TEC-For-Sale.html

Full roll cage, six point harnesses, AWD, and a horsepower-to-weight ratio that will make sure you never get hit, because no one will ever catch you.

Does it come with a .32 PPK?

[RevolverRob]

Does it come with a .32 PPK?

Nah, Bond never drove a Mini.

But Jason Bourne did, so it comes with a 9mm Sig.

[JAD]

I don’t know if you’re cursed, Neph, it could be that you’re surrounded by idiots.

I looked very hard at the Forester when I got my outback. The 2.0XT is very quick, which addresses the Outback ‘s glaring flaw. The visibility in a Foz is just outstanding — reminds me of a BMW2002 on stilts. I really like them.

I will eventually have to go back to German cars, but for now I am a legit Birkenstock -wearing Ruby fan.

For me with safety it’s less about mass and more about height. When a Ford ranger with no brake lights lit ‘em up in front of my Saab 9-3 wagon I slid /under/ his car. It worked out all right but I do not recommend the approach.

[Spartan1980]

Wife just picked out a 2014 Honda CR-V between those and RAV4. I told her I was good with either but preferred the Honda since it gets slightly better mileage. 44k miles and under $15k. It's not loaded out but has most of the niceties that she would actually use. So far so good and I'm really impressed with Honda as to their electronics. They are well thought out vehicles from what I can tell in 3 months of ownership.

[Grey]

If I could do ot over again id get s subie xt. I just have an outback for the wife. Got myself a gti because city driving.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Nephrology]

I don’t know if you’re cursed, Neph, it could be that you’re surrounded by idiots.

I looked very hard at the Forester when I got my outback. The 2.0XT is very quick, which addresses the Outback ‘s glaring flaw. The visibility in a Foz is just outstanding — reminds me of a BMW2002 on stilts. I really like them.

I will eventually have to go back to German cars, but for now I am a legit Birkenstock -wearing Ruby fan.

For me with safety it’s less about mass and more about height. When a Ford ranger with no brake lights lit ‘em up in front of my Saab 9-3 wagon I slid /under/ his car. It worked out all right but I do not recommend the approach.

Thanks for the input. The forester is looking like a strong contender. We'll see whats available when the money comes through - locally it seems like most of the XT models are pretty close to brand new and pushing my $30k budget. Still, I did buy the RAV4 with the intention of driving it into the ground...

Do Subarus use a timing chain or a belt? How are they for maintenance?

[Grey]

Pretty sure they use a belt. No real issues with maintaining mine other than like all the wheel bearings taking a shit at the same time. Might have been due to an earlier accident though. They also need full synthetic oil.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[butler coach]

Wife has a highlander an loves and will be getting another one of them. I like the 4 runner better
Can’t go wrong with a Toyota.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NerdAlert]

The RAV 4 is undergoing a major redesign for 2019. The prices on the previous generation RAVs will take a hit after the new design comes out. Might save you a few thousand to wait a few months.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NH Shooter]

Do Subarus use a timing chain or a belt? How are they for maintenance?

The 2.5 liter engines (both SOHC and DOHC) use a belt, but I think the newer 2.0 uses a chain. The 3.6 liter six (available in the Outback as the 3.6R model) uses a chain.

The turbocharged 2.5 DOHC engine is an entirely different engine than the naturally-aspirated 2.5 SOHC. Older versions of the latter were notorious for head gasket problems.

Maintenance is what I would call normal compared to other makes, nothing really stands out as a red flag.

[Nephrology]

The RAV 4 is undergoing a major redesign for 2019. The prices on the previous generation RAVs will take a hit after the new design comes out. Might save you a few thousand to wait a few months.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unfortunately not sure I can swing that. Don't have rental coverage and am borrowing my GF's truck in the interim. There seem to be lots of other competitive models on the market to look at... I won't jump on an overpriced car, but I can probably find a good deal on a Forester/Crosstrek/4Runner without looking too hard.


The 2.5 liter engines (both SOHC and DOHC) use a belt, but I think the newer 2.0 uses a chain. The 3.6 liter six (available in the Outback as the 3.6R model) uses a chain.

The turbocharged 2.5 DOHC engine is an entirely different engine than the naturally-aspirated 2.5 SOHC. Older versions of the latter were notorious for head gasket problems.

Maintenance is what I would call normal compared to other makes, nothing really stands out as a red flag.


Good to know. The 2.0XT sounds like it might be up my alley, assuming that uses a chain too. I'll see what's on the market.

Hopefully I'll wrap this saga up soon... I rely on my car to commute to/from work. Want to make the right call and willing to be patient, but don't want to dally either.

[RevolverRob]

Seriously - someone buy that VTec-swapped Mini before I do...:eek:

[Stephanie B]

Do they offer it with a stick?


(I hear Stephanie knocking at my door...donning ghillie suit)

:p

You do know, I hope, that Subaru is the unofficial state car of Vermont?

(And yes, for aging lesbians.)

[Stephanie B]

Here ya go man - http://www.wirewheel.com/1966-Austin-Mini-Honda-V-TEC-For-Sale.html

Full roll cage, six point harnesses, AWD, and a horsepower-to-weight ratio that will make sure you never get hit, because no one will ever catch you. And this will definitely fit in your garage.

Don't leave home without an extra pair of pants.

And if you do get into an accident, all they’ll have to do is weld a set of handles onto the balled-up wreck and drop the whole shebang into a grave.


Damn the iPhone Typos!

[NH Shooter]

Good to know. The 2.0XT sounds like it might be up my alley, assuming that uses a chain too. I'll see what's on the market.


Don't fear the belt, they are very durable and totally silent. It's not the belt that fails, but usually an idler pulley that eventually seizes and destroys the belt. I changed mine at 105,000 miles and it looked fine, but one idler pully had some minor bearing play in it.

Don't get bit by the mod bug if you end up with an XT - it can quickly become an expensive obsession. Having a sleeper grocery-getter SUV that goes like a snowmobile in the winter and is as fast as a Corvette becomes very addicting.

[fixer]

The 4runner and Highlander come with full time 4wd but on their higher end trims.

[NerdAlert]

The CR-V is cheaper for a comparable year and mileage to either the RAV4 or the Subaru offerings, at least in my area. The new 2017 redesign CRVs with the turbo are larger, get better mileage than the previous CR-V, and have a very car like ride. Get out and test drive all your choices. If you find a large dealership in your area they may have all the options you’re looking at for you to drive, and you can get it done in one stop. If you need any tips on how to get a good deal send me a PM, I’ll help if I can. *car sales hat off*

That Subaru XT is...wow. I may be smitten.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fatdog]

Another vote for the 4runner. Mine is a 2011 SR5 Trail Limited 4WD. Could not be happier, decent performer both on and off road, it may last longer than I will.

[JHC]

IMO, 4Runner would be a good choice - especially if you do any off-roading beyond dirt roads. If I was in the position to get a new vehicle for myself, I'd be giving the 4Runner a serious look.

You may also want to take a look at the Subaru Outback while you're at it - long-lasting, excellent quality, top scores for crash rating and their AWD systems are very capable.

I just got a new Outback. There are many on the used market in his price range. Years in the future I'll be sorely tempted to build it out a bit. ;)

26999

[NH Shooter]

I just got a new Outback. There are many on the used market in his price range. Years in the future I'll be sorely tempted to build it out a bit. ;)

26999

Congrats on the Outback!

The aftermarket support for Subaru, whether you want to go fast or go off-road, is extensive. Even when my 2007 Forester XT was stock right after I purchased it new, it acquitted itself amazingly well in the soft sand of Fire Island, NY. We had previously ran a 1996 Jeep Cherokee and a 2000 Grand Cherokee so I had first-hand point-of-reference to driving two other very capable vehicles in soft sand. The looks we got out there in the Forester were priceless!


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/fxt-24.jpg

[blues]

The 4runner and Highlander come with full time 4wd but on their higher end trims.

The 4Runner only has full time 4WD on the Limited...which is more of the soccer mom version of the 4Runner. I don't know anything about the Highlander.

(No offense intended toward anyone who owns one.)

[Stephanie B]

I know long-time CRV owners who hate the look of the rearmost pillar.

(“Hate” is putting it mildly, too.)

[zuplex]

My wife and I bought a 2014 Subaru Forester last September. Here are my thoughts so far:

1. The AWD system is awesome. Very secure. We have some steep hills and driveways where I live and with some FWD vehicles Ive had tires slip even in dry conditions. No slipping with the Forester.

2. Very good visibility, particularly rear visibility. Subaru makes a point of making their pillars strong yet thin. So you have great roof strength without compromising your ability to see things.

3. Gas mileage isn't bad. Averaging 21.3 mpg city. Highway mileage is impressive, easily getting 30-35 mpg.

4. The Forester has a shorter wheelbase than the Outback, so you sacrifice some legroom and the ride is a little bumpier. Headroom is good, though.

5. I wish it had more cup holders and storage areas.

6. Seats are okay, but nothing compared to the Volvo we had years ago.

7. Headlights are bright and easy to change.

8. Accelerates well, brakes well.

9. Emergency handling is impressive.

10. Has clever hidden storage in the trunk. Good place to keep emergency supplies.

11. BIG ONE: has one of the best across the board safety ratings and records on the market. Subaru really wants you to survive a crash.

12. It is possible to fit a small adult between two kids' car seats in the back.

13. A/C is cold.

[NH Shooter]

The 4Runner only has full time 4WD on the Limited...which is more of the soccer mom version of the 4Runner. I don't know anything about the Highlander.


Two different beasts. The 4Runner is a traditional 4X4 with a transfer case, a longitudinally mounted engine and body-on-frame construction. It's actually competes with other off road capable vehicles like the Jeep Grand Cherokee or Nissan X-Terra.

The Highlander is a unibody, front-wheel-drive vehicle with an optional clutch pack to transfer power to the rear wheels to give it AWD capability - the true definition of "cross-over SUV." This system is not nearly as robust as the 4X4 (four-wheel drive) system in the 4Runner, but should be wholly adequate for snow, mud or other slippery surfaces. You certainly won't be doing any rock crawling in a Highlander.

What the Highlander gives over the 4Runner is better ride comfort, better MPG, more interior room with AWD capability and more ground clearance than a typical soccer-mom mini van. It's actually very comparable to the Ford Explorer, which is built on the AWD Taurus platform.

Subaru vehicles like the Forester, Crosstrek and Outback are unibody vehicles with longitudinally mounted engines. Their full-time AWD systems are legendary, and certainly more capable than the typical AWD systems found in cross-over SUVs such as the Highlander, RAV4, CR-V, etc. The Subaru AWD system is why they cost a bit more and weigh a bit more than comparable competitors.

I think the question you need to answer first is how much off-road capability do you need? If the answer is "not much" stick with a traditional cross-over such as a RAV4 or Highlander. If on the other hand you regularly go off-roading on terrain more challenging than mud or sand, something like the 4Runner would be the best choice. If you're not sure and just want to split the difference, Subaru has a vehicle for you. ;-)

[JHC]

The 2.5 liter engines (both SOHC and DOHC) use a belt, but I think the newer 2.0 uses a chain. The 3.6 liter six (available in the Outback as the 3.6R model) uses a chain.

The turbocharged 2.5 DOHC engine is an entirely different engine than the naturally-aspirated 2.5 SOHC. Older versions of the latter were notorious for head gasket problems.

Maintenance is what I would call normal compared to other makes, nothing really stands out as a red flag.

I got the 3.6L six and it's got plenty of power for my purposes. I did not expect to see 36 mpg cruising on the highway but I have.

[David S.]

We rented a Crosstrek several years ago for a wedding we attended up above Golden. I was impressed with the silly little thing.

I wonder if they are cheaper in flatter, less snowy states.

While not the cheapest way to buy a used car, I’ve liked my CarMax experiences.

[blues]

I find my 4Runner, (Trail Edition Premium) quite comfortable. I can never really relate to the criticisms people level about truck-like ride etc (despite it being a truck). We have KDSS in ours but my buddy's SR5 without it seems pretty much equivalent comfort-wise. It has less of the high tech stuff like crawl control, multi-terrain etc.

I was actually concerned that my wife would think it less comfortable than the well appointed 2002 Eddie Bauer Explorer (4WD) we had which featured several more creature comforts and amenities. But somewhat surprisingly and very happily, she says she prefers the ride and comfort of the 4Runner.

I prefer it because it is a far more capable and reliable vehicle. I can live without the dual zone climate control and automatic headlamps etc.

[ubervic]

1. Glad that you are not injured.
2. Third time rear-ended within 6 months? That is an absolutely crazy statistic.
3. 4Runner all day long.

[JAD]

(And yes, for aging lesbians.)

I’ve settled on wearing Birks while driving and putting on my Keens when I get out.

[NH Shooter]

We rented a Crosstrek several years ago for a wedding we attended up above Golden. I was impressed with the silly little thing.



The 2018 model is on an entirely new platform with significant upgrades/improvements over the previous models: stiffer, wider unibody structure (less body flex), improved handling and ride, more interior room, improved sound deadening. The 2018 is getting universal rave reviews and can be had with a 6-speed manual. It's only universal complaint is lack of horsepower (155 HP) so us Subie enthusiasts are screaming "turbocharge it!"

Somebody somewhere has undoubtedly dropped the 268 HP WRX version of the same 2.0 into a Crosstrek and addressed that issue. ;-)

[JHC]

The 2018 model is on an entirely new platform with significant upgrades/improvements over the previous models: stiffer, wider unibody structure (less body flex), improved handling and ride, more interior room, improved sound deadening. The 2018 is getting universal rave reviews and can be had with a 6-speed manual. It's only universal complaint is lack of horsepower (155 HP) so us Subie enthusiasts are screaming "turbocharge it!"

Somebody somewhere has undoubtedly dropped the 268 HP WRX version of the same 2.0 into a Crosstrek and addressed that issue. ;-)

Have you heard any rumors that the new turbo 4 cylinder arriving in the Ascent will, over time, be applied throughout the model line up?

[NH Shooter]

Have you heard any rumors that the new turbo 4 cylinder arriving in the Ascent will, over time, be applied throughout the model line up?

No, but it would make a lot of sense to do so. It wasn't that long ago they had an Outback XT model with the turbocharged WRX engine.

If I were to buy an Outback today, it would certainly be the 3.6R model like yours.

[JRB]

Thanks for the input. The forester is looking like a strong contender. We'll see whats available when the money comes through - locally it seems like most of the XT models are pretty close to brand new and pushing my $30k budget. Still, I did buy the RAV4 with the intention of driving it into the ground...

Do Subarus use a timing chain or a belt? How are they for maintenance?

I would emphatically encourage everyone to stop worrying about timing chains vs timing belts.
In years past with old indestructible anemic engines like the Nissan KA24 and Toyota 22R, timing chains were amazing for longevity.

In modern engines (especially German engines) timing chains seem wonderful until a $15 plastic timing chain guide falls apart and you get the same result as a broken timing belt. With the prevalence of variable valve timing and higher static compression these days that always means a cylinder head rebuild with new valves.
The component depth of many of these timing chains is significantly worse than the component depth of a timing belt so it's much more expensive and time consuming to replace those guides. The fun thing? Those guides often fail within intervals far far shorter than a typical timing belt life.


That all said, the newer FA series Subaru engines run a timing chain but do NOT have pants-on-head issues with chain guides and component depth like most of the German makes. The only problem I've observed with FA20's is that they're very picky about engine oil and their recommended oil change intervals are fantastically optimistic.
I would gravitate toward the 'severe' duty schedule for oil changes (which I believe is every 3750miles on the turbocharged FA20's) for at least the first few oil changes, and always use the recommended Subaru factory fill or a provably better option in the same viscosity. (e.g. Oil developed for motorsport/Dexos certified etc) I'd also insist on factory Subaru filters or WIX filters. Napa Gold filters are always Wix filters as well, and often cheaper than WIX branded filters. Avoid Fram and STP filters at all costs.

A lot of Subaru kids love the Rotella T diesel engine oil for no good reason and I got *really* tired of pouring that crap out of rod-knocked WRX's and STI's in my speed shop days.

2014+ Turbo Foresters and 2015+ WRX's have the newer FA engine. Prior years got the EJ series which has been around since the 90's, uses a timing belt that's not a pain to change, and is very well sorted out as far as reliability especially from ~2006 onward. Like the FA, they're sensitive to crappy engine oil and an accelerated change schedule is always a good idea.

[JHC]

I would emphatically encourage everyone to stop worrying about timing chains vs timing belts.
In years past with old indestructible anemic engines like the Nissan KA24 and Toyota 22R, timing chains were amazing for longevity.

In modern engines (especially German engines) timing chains seem wonderful until a $15 plastic timing chain guide falls apart and you get the same result as a broken timing belt. With the prevalence of variable valve timing and higher static compression these days that always means a cylinder head rebuild with new valves.
The component depth of many of these timing chains is significantly worse than the component depth of a timing belt so it's much more expensive and time consuming to replace those guides. The fun thing? Those guides often fail within intervals far far shorter than a typical timing belt life.


That all said, the newer FA series Subaru engines run a timing chain but do NOT have pants-on-head issues with chain guides and component depth like most of the German makes. The only problem I've observed with FA20's is that they're very picky about engine oil and their recommended oil change intervals are fantastically optimistic.
I would gravitate toward the 'severe' duty schedule for oil changes (which I believe is every 3750miles on the turbocharged FA20's) for at least the first few oil changes, and always use the recommended Subaru factory fill or a provably better option in the same viscosity. (e.g. Oil developed for motorsport/Dexos certified etc) I'd also insist on factory Subaru filters or WIX filters. Napa Gold filters are always Wix filters as well, and often cheaper than WIX branded filters. Avoid Fram and STP filters at all costs.

A lot of Subaru kids love the Rotella T diesel engine oil for no good reason and I got *really* tired of pouring that crap out of rod-knocked WRX's and STI's in my speed shop days.

2014+ Turbo Foresters and 2015+ WRX's have the newer FA engine. Prior years got the EJ series which has been around since the 90's, uses a timing belt that's not a pain to change, and is very well sorted out as far as reliability especially from ~2006 onward. Like the FA, they're sensitive to crappy engine oil and an accelerated change schedule is always a good idea.

Do have a blog? You should have a blog. Very interesting!

[JRB]

The 2018 model is on an entirely new platform with significant upgrades/improvements over the previous models: stiffer, wider unibody structure (less body flex), improved handling and ride, more interior room, improved sound deadening. The 2018 is getting universal rave reviews and can be had with a 6-speed manual. It's only universal complaint is lack of horsepower (155 HP) so us Subie enthusiasts are screaming "turbocharge it!"

Somebody somewhere has undoubtedly dropped the 268 HP WRX version of the same 2.0 into a Crosstrek and addressed that issue. ;-)

I'd bet a 3in N-frame that it'd much simpler to just turbocharge the XV's stock engine. It's fundamentally almost identical to the FA20/4UGSE engine found in the FRS/BRZ/GT86 and over fifty different vendors developed turbo kits for that engine, that I'm aware of.
The Crosstrek XV's PCM can be tuned with ECUtek much like any other modern Subaru so I'm sure other custom-tuning options such as Cobb pro tuners, etc could tune it as well.
I'm sure it'd be a simple matter of upgrading the fuel pump and making sure the intake cam phasing was advanced a bit to drop the dynamic compression ratio, dial back some timing advance at peak torque and in high airflow regions on the map, tweak fuel delivery as needed in that higher airflow range and call it a day. Perhaps a WRX's MAFS would be required but I'd bet the stock injectors could hang. Worst case would be swapping the D4S intake and port injectors over from an FRS/BRZ and adding larger port injectors as needed.

Speaking from my experience with other Subarus I'd probably keep it to ~250awhp at most for engine & driveline preservation but I'm sure it'd be just fine at that level. AT models should get a substantial trans cooler if so equipped.

The trick of course, would be keeping warranty coverage, and that's really the best reason ever for a factory turbo model.


Do have a blog? You should have a blog. Very interesting!

Thank you for the kindness - but I do not. You're far from the first to suggest such a thing, so maybe I need to take that hint...




Gosh, got sidetracked on my main point - if someone wants a modern midsized SUV that they can drive forever and basically never worry about, a 4Runner is the answer.

[scw2]

2014+ Turbo Foresters and 2015+ WRX's have the newer FA engine. Prior years got the EJ series which has been around since the 90's, uses a timing belt that's not a pain to change, and is very well sorted out as far as reliability especially from ~2006 onward. Like the FA, they're sensitive to crappy engine oil and an accelerated change schedule is always a good idea.

For newer Foresters that do not have the turbocharged engines, would you recommend the same with regards to engine oil/filter selection and schedule as detailed in your post?

[JRB]

For newer Foresters that do not have the turbocharged engines, would you recommend the same with regards to engine oil/filter selection and schedule as detailed in your post?

Essentially all of my experience with the naturally aspirated (non-turbo) versions of the FA20 have been in the BRZ/FRS/GT86.
With those, they weren't left in a OEM state long enough for me to have any real empirical conclusions on oil change intervals.

My gut tells me that a change after the first 1000 miles and following the recommended intervals with the Subaru recommended oil should be just fine.

With today's very low viscosity oils such as 0w-20, there's less and less padding/wiggle room for crappy additive packages or crappy base stock from bargain basement oils - as Chevy found out the hard way with the new 2014 C7 Corvettes that had a very real crisis in that first 2014 model year. The new 6.2L LT1 specified 0w20 Mobil 1 Dexos synthetic and nothing else, with a mandatory 500 mile change for break-in.
Some dealers were shaking down those new C7 owners saying the Mobil 1 required a substantial upcharge, others refused to do the 500 mile change under a prepaid maintenance plan and said the first change should be at 3000 miles.

The result was a LOT of 6.2L V8's spinning rod bearings or suffering other internal damage because of contaminated oil that wasn't changed at 500, or using the McGM 0w-20 oil instead of the Mobil 1 at additional expense. Most of those failures were experienced with less than 3000 miles on the odometer.

So with that very low-viscosity oil, stuff gets bad very quickly if something isn't right.

[jwperry]

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned a Kia/Hyundai? At a $30k price point you can get one pretty decked out an AWD. My wife has a 2011 Sportage with 168k on it. She's blown the turbo twice, but that's because she doesn't know how to drive. It has been covered 100% by Kia both times (second time out of warranty too). She's been looking at moving up in size to the Sorrento and I haven't found anything negative about them.

Personally, I've had horrible luck with everything Nissan, everyone I know has had bad luck with them and the only product of theirs I'd own is a GT-R....because racecar.

[JRB]

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned a Kia/Hyundai? At a $30k price point you can get one pretty decked out an AWD. My wife has a 2011 Sportage with 168k on it. She's blown the turbo twice, but that's because she doesn't know how to drive. It has been covered 100% by Kia both times (second time out of warranty too). She's been looking at moving up in size to the Sorrento and I haven't found anything negative about them.

Personally, I've had horrible luck with everything Nissan, everyone I know has had bad luck with them and the only product of theirs I'd own is a GT-R....because racecar.

Speaking from 20+ years of experience with turbocharged vehicles, there's almost nothing that is simply 'driver error' about a blown turbocharger.

Turbochargers fail mostly from oiling problems - either insufficient oil pressure or incorrect oil being used that causes bearing damage in the CHRA.
Second leading cause of failure is excessive compressor/turbine shaft speed exceeding the engineering limits of the materials, oil, and CHRA design - these failures can be pretty spectacular.
Third is FOD typically caused by running an unfiltered, open compressor inlet ala jet turbine nacelle, or pesky things like exhaust valves deciding to say 'F this' at 8000rpm and getting shot out of the exhaust port, through the turbine and housing, and ending up with an interesting grapeshot blast of turbo & engine parts out of the exhaust piping.

Being a stock 2011 Sportage at sea level with that kind of mileage, my suspicion is going too long in between oil changes or going too cheap on oil/filters.

Overall, I have not seen anything about Kia's that would elevate them above 'throwaway car' status. The Kia Stinger is exciting but time will tell on longevity and tuning potential.

Hyundai is very solid for typical passenger cars and has a very good warranty program. But their SUV offerings are a far cry from 4Runner or Subaru levels of capability, reliability, and resale value.

[Darth_Uno]

We had a 2012 4Runner and after it got totaled last year (lady hit me) we bought a 2017. Highly recommended. Be aware of two things, if you care; 1, mileage on both was/is usually around 17-18mpg, and 2, starting in I think '16 or '17 the "leather" in the SR5 is composite leather (vinyl), you'll need the Limited for real leather. Which I shelled out for because I didn't know how well the faux leather would hold up to little terrier dog nails.

[blues]

We had a 2012 4Runner and after it got totaled last year (lady hit me) we bought a 2017. Highly recommended. Be aware of two things, if you care; 1, mileage on both was/is usually around 17-18mpg, and 2, starting in I think '16 or '17 the "leather" in the SR5 is composite leather (vinyl), you'll need the Limited for real leather. Which I shelled out for because I didn't know how well the faux leather would hold up to little terrier dog nails.

Yeah, we had real leather in the Explorer and the fake leather "SofTex" in our '16 TEP.

The solution (https://www.amazon.com/Mud-River-Barrel-Double-Cover/dp/B071JCN6KS) for "Skyler", who has the rear seat to herself was this product, which has held up most excellently:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41rqn8ROlNL.jpg

[luckyman]

No, but it would make a lot of sense to do so. It wasn't that long ago they had an Outback XT model with the turbocharged WRX engine.

If I were to buy an Outback today, it would certainly be the 3.6R model like yours.

Yeah I got the 3.6R model last year and love it. No way could I put up with the smaller engine.

[Nephrology]

1. Glad that you are not injured.
2. Third time rear-ended within 6 months? That is an absolutely crazy statistic.
3. 4Runner all day long.

The Denver Metro area has literally the worst drivers I've ever had the misfortune of sharing the road with, and I have lived in all 4 CONUS time zones (CT, OR, MN, CO). I once saw someone with Arkansas plates come to a complete stop at the "Yield" sign at the top of the onramp to the freeway. We had maybe ~30-40 feet of lane left before we had to merge onto the highway at highway speeds. To this day I do not know what he was thinking.

[Dan_S]

Denver? Worse than CT?


I haven’t been in the Denver area for a few years, but I don’t think ANYTHING can be worse than I-95 thru CT.

I breathe a sigh of relief every time I get into NYC as the drivers there are polite compared to the nutjobs in CT.

[JRB]

Denver? Worse than CT?


I haven’t been in the Denver area for a few years, but I don’t think ANYTHING can be worse than I-95 thru CT.

I breathe a sigh of relief every time I get into NYC as the drivers there are polite compared to the nutjobs in CT.

Driving in the Denver area has gotten orders of magnitude worse in the past 5 years. After my last visit 2 years ago, I believe it now rivals the worst I've ever seen which includes SoCal, Boston, NYC, and DC metro.

The particularly egregious moment for me during that last visit was seeing an F250 quad cab go straight through an intersection from the left turn lane on a green left arrow. Opposing traffic also going left on the green left arrow had to swerved and honked , then the F250 overcorrected, lost control in classic Mustang almost-recovered-from-oversteer fashion, jumped the curb sideways, and came to a stop.

The driver then accelerated, spraying grass chunks until it was back on pavement and drove on like nothing happened.

[blues]

^^^^Don't leave Miami off any list of pathetic, dangerous drivers.

[Stephanie B]

things like exhaust valves deciding to say 'F this' at 8000rpm and getting shot out of the exhaust port, through the turbine and housing, and ending up with an interesting grapeshot blast of turbo & engine parts out of the exhaust piping.

The DC-7s had turbos that didn’t boost the engines, they just recovered some of the energy. Supposedly, about 150 hp. The official term was Power Recovery Turbines, the unofficial term was Parts Recovery Turbines.

[GardoneVT]

Driving in the Denver area has gotten orders of magnitude worse in the past 5 years. After my last visit 2 years ago, I believe it now rivals the worst I've ever seen which includes SoCal, Boston, NYC, and DC metro.

The particularly egregious moment for me during that last visit was seeing an F250 quad cab go straight through an intersection from the left turn lane on a green left arrow. Opposing traffic also going left on the green left arrow had to swerved and honked , then the F250 overcorrected, lost control in classic Mustang almost-recovered-from-oversteer fashion, jumped the curb sideways, and came to a stop.

The driver then accelerated, spraying grass chunks until it was back on pavement and drove on like nothing happened.

Rumor has it the freeway chase scene from the Matrix 2 was live footage of the San Antonio freeway system.....

[Stephanie B]

Denver? Worse than CT?

I haven’t been in the Denver area for a few years, but I don’t think ANYTHING can be worse than I-95 thru CT.
I take it you never drove the Central Artery in Boston? Or see somebody pull off a “left turn on red after slightly slowing down”? The rotary in Jamaica Plain was almost like driving a demolition derby.

I-95 in CT, going south, goes from “meh” to “shitshow” to “sweet Jesus, take me now.” The road is horribly over-capacity. There are some situations, like coming south on I-95 and having to get off at the Long Wharf exit in New Haven, that cry out for using an armored car.

[rd62]

I just bought a Tacoma. If we didn't already have an SUV and a need for pickup I'd have gotten a 4 Runner. Either would be 4x4. With your luck I'd put some plate bumpers on it.

[RevolverRob]

I thought it was going to go down Saturday. My wife was driving and she had the AUDACITY to yield to oncoming traffic before turning left here in Chicago. The guy behind us lost his shit and started honking. My wife gave him that universal gesture of good will towards men. At this point he follows us through the intersection, cuts off two cars, barrels into oncoming traffic and cuts us off. I thought it was going to come to a fight on the street when he slammed on the brakes and threw his car into park as he started to get out of the car a cop drove up from the opposite direction and whooped the siren at him - he got back in his car and drove away.

I let out a sigh of relief, because I had left my pepper spray and midget sap at home. Leaving me only a knife and a .45...

All this over a properly executed left turn...

Tl;dr - Chicago has stupid drivers too.

[Stephanie B]

This thing posted two of the same messages. At least I thought it did. After I deleted the second one, it deleted the first one.

I’m going to bed.

[Stephanie B]

Deleted

[Darth_Uno]

...seeing an F250 quad cab go straight through an intersection from the left turn lane on a green left arrow.

That's how I lost my 4runner. Driver went straight through a turn lane.


^^^^Don't leave Miami off any list of pathetic, dangerous drivers.

I've not been to NYC but Miami is the worst place I've ever been for driving. Dallas is a close 2nd place.


Rumor has it the freeway chase scene from the Matrix 2 was live footage of the San Antonio freeway system.....

And Blackhawk Down is just Baltimore traffic cams with audio.

[MGW]

Subaru Crosstrek is a good option.

And— you came out of that ok. Looks like it could have been so much worse.

I just traded off a 2016 Crosstrek in a 2018 Forrester. I bought the black edition so it has most of the options I wanted and the 2.5 liter engine. Payments went down and so did insurance oddly. I’m very pleased with the Forester so far. The Crosstrek was just too small and very under powered.

I like to look at 4 Runners and they are great off road vehicles. For daily drivers with highway time they don’t cut it for me. They’re under powered, don’t get good gas mileage, and don’t drive that well down the highway. And my Forester was almost half the price.

I know Subarus are not sexy but they’re also not like the Subarus that were being made 10 years ago. They’re really nice vehicles. I owned three Toyota pickups in a row before this and for daily drivers the Subaru is a really nice choice.

We ended up buying my wife a two year old CRV. I hate it. It’s ugly, feels squishy going down the road, and has no get up and go at all. It’s like driving a smaller mini van.

[Nephrology]

I take it you never drove the Central Artery in Boston? Or see somebody pull off a “left turn on red after slightly slowing down”? The rotary in Jamaica Plain was almost like driving a demolition derby.

I-95 in CT, going south, goes from “meh” to “shitshow” to “sweet Jesus, take me now.” The road is horribly over-capacity. There are some situations, like coming south on I-95 and having to get off at the Long Wharf exit in New Haven, that cry out for using an armored car.

I-95 is especially bad around Stamford/into NY state. It's also not great around Hartford or New Haven, but otherwise, I'd absolutely take it any day over Denver. Drivers know their lanes, know when to be appropriately aggressive, and know when/where they can get away with speeding, passing etc.

Denver is like playing bumper cars with a bunch of drunks. I could get into a litany of egregiously stupid and dangerous things I've seen around Denver but I am trying to keep my blood pressure low...


I just traded off a 2016 Crosstrek in a 2018 Forrester. I bought the black edition so it has most of the options I wanted and the 2.5 liter engine. Payments went down and so did insurance oddly. I’m very pleased with the Forester so far. The Crosstrek was just too small and very under powered.

I like to look at 4 Runners and they are great off road vehicles. For daily drivers with highway time they don’t cut it for me. They’re under powered, don’t get good gas mileage, and don’t drive that well down the highway. And my Forester was almost half the price.

I know Subarus are not sexy but they’re also not like the Subarus that were being made 10 years ago. They’re really nice vehicles. I owned three Toyota pickups in a row before this and for daily drivers the Subaru is a really nice choice.

We ended up buying my wife a two year old CRV. I hate it. It’s ugly, feels squishy going down the road, and has no get up and go at all. It’s like driving a smaller mini van.

I'm definitely leaning towards the Subaru right now. Seems like the right compromise between price, vehicle power, cargo capacity, milage, etc. Good to know re: Crosstrek/Forester; I'll keep that in mind. Don't want to have a car that struggles to accelerate at sea level - my RAV barely cut it in the mountains as it is. I'll keep an eye out for a 2.5L.

[Nephrology]

I just bought a Tacoma. If we didn't already have an SUV and a need for pickup I'd have gotten a 4 Runner. Either would be 4x4. With your luck I'd put some plate bumpers on it.

What I really want are these : 27030 mounted in an array on the rear bumper assembly plate...

[Stephanie B]

I-95 is especially bad around Stamford/into NY state. It's also not great around Hartford or New Haven, but otherwise, I'd absolutely take it any day over Denver. Drivers know their lanes, know when to be appropriately aggressive, and know when/where they can get away with speeding, passing etc.
For those of you not familiar with New England, Hartford is on I-91. The I-84/91 interchange is bad, especially with CT Route 2 joining I-84 about a thousand feet to the east.

I-95 in western Fairfield County, CT has always been bad. But there was a time when the traffic generally went in one direction. That changed in the `70s.

We're not even talking about "The Mixing Bowl", the I-95/395/495 interchange in Springfield, VA. It was a horror show when I lived there in the mid-`80s. But I gather they've improved the hell out of it.

[CWM11B]

I am dangerously close to pulling the trigger on an outback. I've looked at all the crossovers, SUVs, and mid size pickups. For pretty much anything short of extreme off roading or actually needing a pick up, the outback is the way to go from my point of view. I just cant bear the thought of a car payment

[Mitch]

I’m really hoping the crosstrek gets more power in the next few years. I’d really like to get one but I don’t think I’d be happy with that lack of power for 10 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NerdAlert]

I like to look at 4 Runners and they are great off road vehicles. For daily drivers with highway time they don’t cut it for me...We ended up buying my wife a two year old CRV. I hate it. It’s ugly, feels squishy going down the road, and has no get up and go at all. It’s like driving a smaller mini van.

Totally agree on the 4Runner. Disagree on the CR-V. My minivan has near-as-makes-no-difference 300 hp. It makes the older CRVs look positively lethargic. Don’t dishonor the dad van by comparing it to that anemic station wagon. The new CR-V with the turbo is a little better, but the modern V6 vans are MUCH more powerful, comfortable, and practical. The only reason to buy a CRV is if you don’t want to put your dog in the trunk of an Accord.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jim Watson]

I agree. I see all manner of SUVs and "crossovers" and as I said, know people who like them.
Me? My serious vehicle is a Toyota van. If anything happened to my BMW or pickup, I would probably not look for a replacement, but the van has everything but style and manure capability.

[JHC]

I-95 is especially bad around Stamford/into NY state. It's also not great around Hartford or New Haven, but otherwise, I'd absolutely take it any day over Denver. Drivers know their lanes, know when to be appropriately aggressive, and know when/where they can get away with speeding, passing etc.

Denver is like playing bumper cars with a bunch of drunks. I could get into a litany of egregiously stupid and dangerous things I've seen around Denver but I am trying to keep my blood pressure low...



I'm definitely leaning towards the Subaru right now. Seems like the right compromise between price, vehicle power, cargo capacity, milage, etc. Good to know re: Crosstrek/Forester; I'll keep that in mind. Don't want to have a car that struggles to accelerate at sea level - my RAV barely cut it in the mountains as it is. I'll keep an eye out for a 2.5L.

I bet some deals can be had on new 2018 Foresters since there is a new 2019 model about to release (in a few months?). Early reviews of it are pretty strong. IIRC it gets a skosh more of everything, size, refinement etc. http://www.motortrend.com/cars/subaru/forester/2019/2019-subaru-forester-first-look-review/

BUT if you want the Turbo XT you gotta jump. It goes away in 2019.

[Nephrology]

For those of you not familiar with New England, Hartford is on I-91. The I-84/91 interchange is bad, especially with CT Route 2 joining I-84 about a thousand feet to the east.

I-95 in western Fairfield County, CT has always been bad. But there was a time when the traffic generally went in one direction. That changed in the `70s.

We're not even talking about "The Mixing Bowl", the I-95/395/495 interchange in Springfield, VA. It was a horror show when I lived there in the mid-`80s. But I gather they've improved the hell out of it.

Oops,, you're right. 95 and 91 connect in New Haven. They feel very much like the same road to me :P

[Stephanie B]

Oops,, you're right. 95 and 91 connect in New Haven. They feel very much like the same road to me :P

I do my absolute best to stay off I-95 west south of New Haven.

(I-95 signs say "north" and "south", but from about Westerly, RI to the George Washington Bridge, it's an east-west road. Which causes a little bit of confusion. Sort of how one once could be simultaneously southbound on MA Rt 128 and northbound on I-93.))

[Larry Sellers]

For those of you not familiar with New England, Hartford is on I-91. The I-84/91 interchange is bad, especially with CT Route 2 joining I-84 about a thousand feet to the east.

I-95 in western Fairfield County, CT has always been bad. But there was a time when the traffic generally went in one direction. That changed in the `70s.

We're not even talking about "The Mixing Bowl", the I-95/395/495 interchange in Springfield, VA. It was a horror show when I lived there in the mid-`80s. But I gather they've improved the hell out of it.

Don’t forget the 691/91/15 exchange conflagration in Meriden. I swear if I had $1 for every poor sap I’ve met from out of state who totaled a car in that mess I’d be able to retire 18 years early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ranger]

Atlanta commute. Two cars rear ended - both times headed north away from work. Both times - I stopped for traffic and vehicles behind me did not. We cannot get the new GA "hands-free" law soon enough.

PS - watching the 4Runner comments with interest. Also considering borrowing one of the last M577s in GAARNG as a commuter.

[JHC]

Atlanta commute. Two cars rear ended - both times headed north away from work. Both times - I stopped for traffic and vehicles behind me did not. We cannot get the new GA "hands-free" law soon enough.

PS - watching the 4Runner comments with interest. Also considering borrowing one of the last M577s in GAARNG as a commuter.
LOL
On GA 400 one morning I got rear ended while going 60 mph. Totaled both our cars.

[RJ]

Just saw this, glad you are ok Neph.

[RJ]

We're not even talking about "The Mixing Bowl", the I-95/395/495 interchange in Springfield, VA. It was a horror show when I lived there in the mid-`80s. But I gather they've improved the hell out of it.

Very familiar lol.

I lived in Springfield for High School at Lee High , and watched Springfield Mall get built. Small world. :cool:

[Nephrology]

Just saw this, glad you are ok Neph.

thanks friend! Spoke to my claim manager today - they should have an adjustor out to the tow lot tomorrow, so hopefully I'll be able to at least start shopping online seriously this week, with plans to get something purchased by the end of the month.

[Stephanie B]

Very familiar lol.

I lived in Springfield for High School at Lee High , and watched Springfield Mall get built. Small world. :cool:

I went to the movies there a lot. I saw The Wrath of Khan there, first time I saw people wearing costumes to a movie in the daytime. I wondered who were those weirdos. The best time to go to that mall was when the Redskins were playing. Later on, I wrote a mystery (https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Witness-Sam-Hawkins-Book-ebook/dp/B00884J0WO/) and placed a killing there.

(Maybe I should change my title to "Queen of Thread Drift".)

[Stephanie B]

Don’t forget the 691/91/15 exchange conflagration in Meriden. I swear if I had $1 for every poor sap I’ve met from out of state who totaled a car in that mess I’d be able to retire 18 years early.

With the current construction going on, the Gold Star Bridges over the Thames on I-95 have been a great source of wrecks. ConnDOT had to close an on-ramp because people are assholes.

[Stephanie B]

Spoke to my claim manager today - they should have an adjustor out to the tow lot tomorrow, so hopefully I'll be able to at least start shopping online seriously this week, with plans to get something purchased by the end of the month.
Do you have rental reimbursement?

[scw2]

thanks friend! Spoke to my claim manager today - they should have an adjustor out to the tow lot tomorrow, so hopefully I'll be able to at least start shopping online seriously this week, with plans to get something purchased by the end of the month.

If you go with a new Subaru, try and find someone to give you an ambassador coupon. You might be able to get a loyalty coupon, though not sure exactly on the T&C as to whether you can have a family or friend member call on your behalf. If you can get either, that's another $500 off the final deal price as a rebate to you.

[Dan_S]

-edit-

[Nephrology]

Do you have rental reimbursement?

Negative - while I have great coverage otherwise, that was something I opted out of....

Fortunately I have my girlfriend's Tacoma to borrow in the meantime and she works from home, so I am not in desperate need to purchase ASAP .... but close ;)


If you go with a new Subaru, try and find someone to give you an ambassador coupon. You might be able to get a loyalty coupon, though not sure exactly on the T&C as to whether you can have a family or friend member call on your behalf. If you can get either, that's another $500 off the final deal price as a rebate to you.

Who would I ask for one of these?

[Robinson]

LOL
On GA 400 one morning I got rear ended while going 60 mph. Totaled both our cars.

I am not at all surprised by what you and ranger posted. Lots of crazy in Atlanta area traffic.

[Trigger]

Speaking from 20+ years of experience with turbocharged vehicles, there's almost nothing that is simply 'driver error' about a blown turbocharger.

Turbochargers fail mostly from oiling problems - either insufficient oil pressure or incorrect oil being used that causes bearing damage in the CHRA.
Second leading cause of failure is excessive compressor/turbine shaft speed exceeding the engineering limits of the materials, oil, and CHRA design - these failures can be pretty spectacular.
Third is FOD typically caused by running an unfiltered, open compressor inlet ala jet turbine nacelle, or pesky things like exhaust valves deciding to say 'F this' at 8000rpm and getting shot out of the exhaust port, through the turbine and housing, and ending up with an interesting grapeshot blast of turbo & engine parts out of the exhaust piping.

Being a stock 2011 Sportage at sea level with that kind of mileage, my suspicion is going too long in between oil changes or going too cheap on oil/filters.

Overall, I have not seen anything about Kia's that would elevate them above 'throwaway car' status. The Kia Stinger is exciting but time will tell on longevity and tuning potential.

Hyundai is very solid for typical passenger cars and has a very good warranty program. But their SUV offerings are a far cry from 4Runner or Subaru levels of capability, reliability, and resale value.

JRB, I wish you were there when I blew the motor on my 1999 Subaru WRX STi at the racetrack in Sendai, Japan ten years ago. Long story, but the engine suddenly started running like a diesel on the track. No over-rev, no oil in coolant or coolant in water. The fun part was I was a gaijin at the track and do not speak Japanese. Had to get the car flat-bedded to my US airbase (Misawa) where I lived. Pull the motor. Buy a new short block, swap accessories, install it. Then move with the military and sell it.

I never found out why it failed, or what I did to cause it. Nice car, but not a gas-n-oil track car like a BMW or Porsche. Fun in the snow, though.

[JRB]

JRB, I wish you were there when I blew the motor on my 1999 Subaru WRX STi at the racetrack in Sendai, Japan ten years ago. Long story, but the engine suddenly started running like a diesel on the track. No over-rev, no oil in coolant or coolant in water. The fun part was I was a gaijin at the track and do not speak Japanese. Had to get the car flat-bedded to my US airbase (Misawa) where I lived. Pull the motor. Buy a new short block, swap accessories, install it. Then move with the military and sell it.

I never found out why it failed, or what I did to cause it. Nice car, but not a gas-n-oil track car like a BMW or Porsche. Fun in the snow, though.

I *LOVE* the GC8 STi's! Cool car! Being a 99 I'm assuming it was a Ver.6 - was it a coupe or sedan? I especially love the coupes.

Assuming the valves were fine when you swapped the shortblock, I can all but guarantee it was a piston ringland failure and I'd bet money it was cylinder #4. If an EJ engine gets a bit too hot and runs just a little too lean, #4 is almost always the first cylinder to let go, and the factory Subaru piston designs were really geared towards cold start emissions more than durability, so the compression ring is pretty close to the crown of the piston.

EJ's in general suffer from some lubrication and piston design issues if you really flog on them, so track events see some failures like that. On really sticky tires and road courses, you can out g-force the factory oil pan and oil pickup and spinning rod bearings as a result is also fairly common.

I'm not sure what you mean about 'gas-n-oil track car' because I've seen just about everything blow up at a track. A lot of older Japanese cars have problems but they're typically twice the age and substantially higher mileage than their German and US counterparts that are blowing up at the same track events.
If I were building an outright AWD track weapon I'd personally go with a Evo 8 or Evo 9, but a GC8 Impreza coupe would be a close second.
There's a lot of things to address with an EJ to make it really bulletproof, but you can build a fresh ~550whp capable forged rods/pistons EJ257 longblock for the cost of a used 100k mile BMW S54 engine.

I'm sure you noticed gobs of understeer on that stock Ver. 6 you had at that track event - the factory Subaru alignment settings are preposterously conservative even in their performance models, so a set of Konis + Eibachs with some crash bolts or camber plates (or both) to get some more negative camber and dial out some of the rear toe makes a gigantic difference in steering feel and handling, even with crappy tires.

It's always been a dream of mine to visit Japan. Sadly I joined the wrong branch of the military to have any chance of getting there for work!

[JHC]

I *LOVE* the GC8 STi's! Cool car! Being a 99 I'm assuming it was a Ver.6 - was it a coupe or sedan? I especially love the coupes.

Assuming the valves were fine when you swapped the shortblock, I can all but guarantee it was a piston ringland failure and I'd bet money it was cylinder #4. If an EJ engine gets a bit too hot and runs just a little too lean, #4 is almost always the first cylinder to let go, and the factory Subaru piston designs were really geared towards cold start emissions more than durability, so the compression ring is pretty close to the crown of the piston.

EJ's in general suffer from some lubrication and piston design issues if you really flog on them, so track events see some failures like that. On really sticky tires and road courses, you can out g-force the factory oil pan and oil pickup and spinning rod bearings as a result is also fairly common.

I'm not sure what you mean about 'gas-n-oil track car' because I've seen just about everything blow up at a track. A lot of older Japanese cars have problems but they're typically twice the age and substantially higher mileage than their German and US counterparts that are blowing up at the same track events.
If I were building an outright AWD track weapon I'd personally go with a Evo 8 or Evo 9, but a GC8 Impreza coupe would be a close second.
There's a lot of things to address with an EJ to make it really bulletproof, but you can build a fresh ~550whp capable forged rods/pistons EJ257 longblock for the cost of a used 100k mile BMW S54 engine.

I'm sure you noticed gobs of understeer on that stock Ver. 6 you had at that track event - the factory Subaru alignment settings are preposterously conservative even in their performance models, so a set of Konis + Eibachs with some crash bolts or camber plates (or both) to get some more negative camber and dial out some of the rear toe makes a gigantic difference in steering feel and handling, even with crappy tires.

It's always been a dream of mine to visit Japan. Sadly I joined the wrong branch of the military to have any chance of getting there for work!

Heck with the blog, go Youtube channel and monetize it. I find "Engineering Explained" to be fascinating but haven't found time to watch them all. Seen it? A lot of car tech.

[Trigger]

I *LOVE* the GC8 STi's! Cool car! Being a 99 I'm assuming it was a Ver.6 - was it a coupe or sedan? I especially love the coupes.

Assuming the valves were fine when you swapped the shortblock, I can all but guarantee it was a piston ringland failure and I'd bet money it was cylinder #4. If an EJ engine gets a bit too hot and runs just a little too lean, #4 is almost always the first cylinder to let go, and the factory Subaru piston designs were really geared towards cold start emissions more than durability, so the compression ring is pretty close to the crown of the piston.

EJ's in general suffer from some lubrication and piston design issues if you really flog on them, so track events see some failures like that. On really sticky tires and road courses, you can out g-force the factory oil pan and oil pickup and spinning rod bearings as a result is also fairly common.

I'm not sure what you mean about 'gas-n-oil track car' because I've seen just about everything blow up at a track. A lot of older Japanese cars have problems but they're typically twice the age and substantially higher mileage than their German and US counterparts that are blowing up at the same track events.
If I were building an outright AWD track weapon I'd personally go with a Evo 8 or Evo 9, but a GC8 Impreza coupe would be a close second.
There's a lot of things to address with an EJ to make it really bulletproof, but you can build a fresh ~550whp capable forged rods/pistons EJ257 longblock for the cost of a used 100k mile BMW S54 engine.

I'm sure you noticed gobs of understeer on that stock Ver. 6 you had at that track event - the factory Subaru alignment settings are preposterously conservative even in their performance models, so a set of Konis + Eibachs with some crash bolts or camber plates (or both) to get some more negative camber and dial out some of the rear toe makes a gigantic difference in steering feel and handling, even with crappy tires.

It's always been a dream of mine to visit Japan. Sadly I joined the wrong branch of the military to have any chance of getting there for work!

I lived in Misawa from 05-08, and bought the four-door 1999 STI with about 75000km on the odo. Came with two sets of suspension, a summer set of ohlins coil-overs, with Rays wheels and sticky tires, and a wintry set of red Subaru factory coil overs. I bought another set of 4 Subaru factory STI wheels used with Blizzaks on them and had a ball. Aftermarket sway bars and camber adjustable shock mounts. The engine had equal length headers on it, and I’m pretty sure aftermarket software. For the 2.0 liter Japan spec engine, I was guessing around 320hp for the 2700lb four-door. The funniest part was the aftermarket DVD based nav system where th screen folded out and up. Spoke only Japanese. I had great difficulty getting directions to anywhere!

When I say gas-n-oil track car, I’ve owned three BMW M3s for the past 24 years, and they have been very reliable. 95 M3, 95M3LTW, and a 2011 M3. I sold the first one to buy the LTW, and owned that for 13 years. I put a fair amount of track miles on it. Bone stock for the first few years, then upgraded software and the brake rotors to the euro-floating rotors, then coil-over suspension and sway bars, second set of track wheels and tires, then finally Porsche 993 brakes and disks all around. Wonderful car. Highly reliable, very little need for dedicated track prep. I frequently changed the Oil and brake fluid, and that was about it. The 2011 four-door M3 replaced the LTW, as I needed a “practical family sedan”. Heh. That thing goes like a raped ape, and it’s chassis balance belies it’s 3600lb girth. That engine has a completely different personality above 5000rpm, and sings all the way to its 8400rpm redline. It responds very well to throttle steering, and in many respects reminds me of my friends e30 M3. Especially after he dropped the 286hp euro 3.0liter engine into it.

Like I said, the driving schools are a lot of fun, and the first hit of crack is free . . .

[Trigger]

I *LOVE* the GC8 STi's! Cool car! Being a 99 I'm assuming it was a Ver.6 - was it a coupe or sedan? I especially love the coupes.

Assuming the valves were fine when you swapped the shortblock, I can all but guarantee it was a piston ringland failure and I'd bet money it was cylinder #4. If an EJ engine gets a bit too hot and runs just a little too lean, #4 is almost always the first cylinder to let go, and the factory Subaru piston designs were really geared towards cold start emissions more than durability, so the compression ring is pretty close to the crown of the piston.

EJ's in general suffer from some lubrication and piston design issues if you really flog on them, so track events see some failures like that. On really sticky tires and road courses, you can out g-force the factory oil pan and oil pickup and spinning rod bearings as a result is also fairly common.

I'm not sure what you mean about 'gas-n-oil track car' because I've seen just about everything blow up at a track. A lot of older Japanese cars have problems but they're typically twice the age and substantially higher mileage than their German and US counterparts that are blowing up at the same track events.
If I were building an outright AWD track weapon I'd personally go with a Evo 8 or Evo 9, but a GC8 Impreza coupe would be a close second.
There's a lot of things to address with an EJ to make it really bulletproof, but you can build a fresh ~550whp capable forged rods/pistons EJ257 longblock for the cost of a used 100k mile BMW S54 engine.

I'm sure you noticed gobs of understeer on that stock Ver. 6 you had at that track event - the factory Subaru alignment settings are preposterously conservative even in their performance models, so a set of Konis + Eibachs with some crash bolts or camber plates (or both) to get some more negative camber and dial out some of the rear toe makes a gigantic difference in steering feel and handling, even with crappy tires.

It's always been a dream of mine to visit Japan. Sadly I joined the wrong branch of the military to have any chance of getting there for work!

I lived in Misawa from 05-08, and bought the four-door 1999 STI with about 75000km on the odo. Came with two sets of suspension, a summer set of ohlins coil-overs, with Rays wheels and sticky tires, and a wintry set of red Subaru factory coil overs. I bought another set of 4 Subaru factory STI wheels used with Blizzaks on them and had a ball. Also came with Aftermarket sway bars and camber adjustable shock mounts. The previous owner’s updated the engine with equal length headers, and I’m pretty sure aftermarket software. For the 2.0 liter Japan spec engine, I was guessing around 320hp for the 2700lb four-door. The funniest part was the aftermarket DVD based nav system where the screen folded out and up. Spoke only Japanese. I had great difficulty getting directions to anywhere!

When I say gas-n-oil track car, I’ve owned three BMW M3s for the past 24 years (left in storage while I lived overseas for 5 years), and they have been very reliable. 95 M3, 95M3LTW, and a 2011 M3. I sold the first one to buy the LTW, and owned that for 13 years. I put a fair amount of track miles on it. Bone stock for the first few years, then upgraded software and the brake rotors to the euro-floating rotors, then coil-over suspension and sway bars, second set of track wheels and tires, then finally Porsche 993 brakes and disks all around. Wonderful car. Highly reliable, very little need for dedicated track prep. I frequently changed the Oil and brake fluid, and that was about it. The 2011 four-door M3 replaced the LTW, as I needed a “practical family sedan”. Heh. That thing goes like a raped ape, and it’s chassis balance belies it’s 3600lb girth. That engine has a completely different personality above 5000rpm, and sings all the way to its 8400rpm redline. It responds very well to throttle steering, and in many respects reminds me of my friends e30 M3. Especially after he dropped the 286hp euro 3.0liter engine into it.

Like I said, the driving schools are a lot of fun, and the first hit of crack is free . . .

[Nephrology]

So my car is officially totalled. A little miffed because they are only offering me $10300 as base vehicle value and subtracting ~$1k for "hail damage" when I did not have any hail damage on my car body... some very minor scratches/defects from normal wear, but as you can see from the photos, the car was in pretty great shape before it was wrecked. I just got it back from the auto body shop 10 days ago...

After their reimbursement for sales tax + DMV fees they're offering me just under a grand, which is ~$1-2k lower than I was expecting. Am I just being unrealistic? Their comps did not include my mileage, either (listed as "unknown" on the sheet), which leads me to believe that it wasn't factored into the calculation for my vehicle's price

[JRB]

So my car is officially totalled. A little miffed because they are only offering me $10300 as base vehicle value and subtracting ~$1k for "hail damage" when I did not have any hail damage on my car body... some very minor scratches/defects from normal wear, but as you can see from the photos, the car was in pretty great shape before it was wrecked. I just got it back from the auto body shop 10 days ago...

After their reimbursement for sales tax + DMV fees they're offering me just under a grand, which is ~$1-2k lower than I was expecting. Am I just being unrealistic? Their comps did not include my mileage, either (listed as "unknown" on the sheet), which leads me to believe that it wasn't factored into the calculation for my vehicle's price

That is an initial offer - they act like there isn't any wiggle room but there is.

Find comparable listings for identical Rav4's with similar mileage in your area and argue the value, I'd bet you can cover the $2k discrepancy that way.

[Nephrology]

That is an initial offer - they act like there isn't any wiggle room but there is.

Find comparable listings for identical Rav4's with similar mileage in your area and argue the value, I'd bet you can cover the $2k discrepancy that way.

Well, just asking about my odometer got my statement revised up 2 grand to $11.8k after their adjustments for damages. I am going to try to wiggle them down on some of those damage adjustments too but their new figure is much more fair. Here is the new quote + the comps they pulled for the new quote:

For reference, mine was a 2010 with Sport trim, just under 68k on the odometer:

https://i.imgur.com/gIV84tQ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DwDg0sw.jpg

[RevolverRob]

Well, just asking about my odometer got my statement revised up 2 grand to $11.8k after their adjustments for damages. I am going to try to wiggle them down on some of those damage adjustments too but their new figure is much more fair. Here is the new quote + the comps they pulled for the new quote:

For reference, mine was a 2010 with Sport trim, just under 68k on the odometer:

I get $12,436.80 as the average of those 5 comps....

[Nephrology]

I get $12,436.80 as the average of those 5 comps....

There is a 6th hat I didn't post because it was on a 2nd page. Also note the -$1000 down-revision from what they are calling "hail damage" (extremely minor body damage some of which may pre-date crash, but not certain as it doesn't square my view of the car's exterior).

[RevolverRob]

There is a 6th hat I didn't post because it was on a 2nd page. Also note the -$1000 down-revision from what they are calling "hail damage" (extremely minor body damage some of which may pre-date crash, but not certain as it doesn't square my view of the car's exterior).

I mean unless the other comp is 10k - 12-12.5k seems to be the number you should get. Who is your insurance company and how long have you been with them? Might be time to think about switching and mentioning that to the adjuster.

[ranger]

I went down that path when my 2005 BMW 330ZHP was totaled. They lowballed the first offer and used comps for stripped BMW 325 versus the limited edition 330 ZHP. I refused the offer - did my homework off BMW enthusiast pages and presented my case. Got significantly more money. During the back and forth, it got irritating and I started asking about how to file a claim for my back ache and other injuries obviously caused by the wreck.

PS - if you did any work to the car recently like new tires or such, submit the receipts and they may add that to the value.

[Nephrology]

I went down that path when my 2005 BMW 330ZHP was totaled. They lowballed the first offer and used comps for stripped BMW 325 versus the limited edition 330 ZHP. I refused the offer - did my homework off BMW enthusiast pages and presented my case. Got significantly more money. During the back and forth, it got irritating and I started asking about how to file a claim for my back ache and other injuries obviously caused by the wreck.

PS - if you did any work to the car recently like new tires or such, submit the receipts and they may add that to the value.

Yeah I had new tires put on about a year ago, also had body work done. Going to fight the -1000 deduction about hail damage. I could see maybe -$500 for paint/scratches/a small dent, but some of that damage doesn't seem appropriate to me.

[Nephrology]

I mean unless the other comp is 10k - 12-12.5k seems to be the number you should get. Who is your insurance company and how long have you been with them? Might be time to think about switching and mentioning that to the adjuster.

They're calling the base value of the vehicle as 12.3k, which is inline with your calculations. The 11.8k value they get is after $1k of deductions that includes my $200 deductible and some body damage that I disagree with.

[ranger]

I swore to myself after my last insurance experience over totaled car rear end event, I will call one of the "one call that's all" type lawyers next time. Assuming when not if in Atlanta.

[MGW]

I bet some deals can be had on new 2018 Foresters since there is a new 2019 model about to release (in a few months?). Early reviews of it are pretty strong. IIRC it gets a skosh more of everything, size, refinement etc. http://www.motortrend.com/cars/subaru/forester/2019/2019-subaru-forester-first-look-review/

BUT if you want the Turbo XT you gotta jump. It goes away in 2019.

I got a really good deal on my ‘18 Forester. Two year old Crosstrek with 40k miles trade. Payments went down, insurance went down. I also got a nicer, bigger, better engine, same gas mileage vehicle.

[MGW]

For what it’s worth the absolute worst traffic I’ve ever driven in was in, around, near San Juan PR. This wasn’t long after Maria and the power grid was iffy at best. I’ve done a lot of big metro areas but PR was crazy. I’m pretty sure I saw every traffic law known to man broken more than once. I’m pretty sure it was a local game to figure out new ways to to turn left from the far right lane. The narrow and winding backroads were just as bad if not worse than the interstates.

I’m not sure how I made it out of there with all my body parts still attached.

[Nephrology]

So, my adjuster is jerking me around for the $1k in body damage. There were definitely some scratches/dents on the car when it totaled, but they are very embellished, and $1k seems like an excessive adjustment given how minor it is. Keep in mind, I already am not particularly pleased that she "forgot" to include the mileage on my comps report; I would have been out over $2k if i was a hapless idiot and took the report at face value.

After the corrected report, I wrote a carefully phrased email last night acknowledging some of the damage but asking pointedly if some of the other dents/scratches she notes could have been from the collision, and whether or not she has photos of the damage.

Today at 4:55 local time she emails me a very defensive and snippy email with 3 photos (none of which include the damage I asked about), also summarily informing me that she can no longer pay to keep the car on the lot (I got her first adjustment yesterday) and that she had forwarded the claim to the loss department.

I am planning on contacting my local insurance agent who I had already been in touch with because I was not super impressed with this lady - any other advice on what to do here? Royally pissed to be treated this way, will be looking for quotes from other insurers after I get my check from Allstate.

[ranger]

Just my 2 cents after my last few rear-end wreck events plus raising two teenagers during the original "Fast and Furious" era

1) $1k does not pay for a lot of body work unfortunately - that is one reason insurance companies total cars so fast - they want to cut their losses, sell the wreck for scrap, and move on.
2) My son and several of his buddies worked for GEICO after college. I learned this from them - they have agents that deal with simple claims, agents that deal with more complicated claims, agents that deal with bodily injury related claims, etc. Your "adjuster" may be bumping you up to another agent since you did not take the first settlement.
3) During both my rear end events, I kept my insurer USAA out of the deals (I told them about the events) because it was between me and the other driver's car/insurance. Are you dealing with your insurance company or the insurance company of the driver that hit you? Maybe I missed that. In my case, I seemed to have more leverage as I was the injured party since the other driver caused the incident and was charged by the police as the "at fault".
4) Are you prepared to turn it over to a personal injury lawyer?
5) They played the same "paying to $$ store wreck in a lot" game to pressure me to take the offer. I did not bite.
6) I really did start asking about how to file a personal injury claim to get their attention.
7) I had an extra vehicle available so I could drag it out to get more $$

[Nephrology]

Just my 2 cents after my last few rear-end wreck events plus raising two teenagers during the original "Fast and Furious" era

1) $1k does not pay for a lot of body work unfortunately - that is one reason insurance companies total cars so fast - they want to cut their losses, sell the wreck for scrap, and move on.
2) My son and several of his buddies worked for GEICO after college. I learned this from them - they have agents that deal with simple claims, agents that deal with more complicated claims, agents that deal with bodily injury related claims, etc. Your "adjuster" may be bumping you up to another agent since you did not take the first settlement.
3) During both my rear end events, I kept my insurer USAA out of the deals (I told them about the events) because it was between me and the other driver's car/insurance. Are you dealing with your insurance company or the insurance company of the driver that hit you? Maybe I missed that. In my case, I seemed to have more leverage as I was the injured party since the other driver caused the incident and was charged by the police as the "at fault".
4) Are you prepared to turn it over to a personal injury lawyer?
5) They played the same "paying to $$ store wreck in a lot" game to pressure me to take the offer. I did not bite.
6) I really did start asking about how to file a personal injury claim to get their attention.
7) I had an extra vehicle available so I could drag it out to get more $$

Thanks for the tips. That's all really helpful info.

I'm working thru my insurance because the at fault driver has some fly-by-night insurance agency (of course the other 2 drivers not-at-fault drivers had progressive, state farm....).

I had an initial MD appointment the next business day after the loss and was referred to PT at that time. XRay showed no fracture, so I am not sure entirely if it would be worth going to a personal injury lawyer given that medical expenses seem for now minimal, but I haven't had my appointment with PT yet and knowing that it's a soft tissue injury there's a strong possibility it will nag me for a long time.

I already forwarded the email in full to my agent, explaining that I was a loyal customer for 3 years and very disappointed by the interaction with the adjuster. If they are not helpful I am happy to immediately cancel my auto insurance plan with their office once I get my reimbursement check. I've never been the at-fault driver in a collision and have gotten a whopping 1 moving violation in my >10 years of being a licensed driver. Having shopped around for insurance in the Denver metro area before, I know the plans from most major insurance companies are basically priced the same. More than happy to insure the new car I bought with their money via somebody else.

[RevolverRob]

Thanks for the tips. That's all really helpful info.

I'm working thru my insurance because the at fault driver has some fly-by-night insurance agency (of course the other 2 drivers not-at-fault drivers had progressive, state farm....).

I had an initial MD appointment the next business day after the loss and was referred to PT at that time. XRay showed no fracture, so I am not sure entirely if it would be worth going to a personal injury lawyer given that medical expenses seem for now minimal, but I haven't had my appointment with PT yet and knowing that it's a soft tissue injury there's a strong possibility it will nag me for a long time.

I already forwarded the email in full to my agent, explaining that I was a loyal customer for 3 years and very disappointed by the interaction with the adjuster. If they are not helpful I am happy to immediately cancel my auto insurance plan with their office once I get my reimbursement check. I've never been the at-fault driver in a collision and have gotten a whopping 1 moving violation in my >10 years of being a licensed driver. Having shopped around for insurance in the Denver metro area before, I know the plans from most major insurance companies are basically priced the same. More than happy to insure the new car I bought with their money via somebody else.

Solid effort on your part. Insurance companies tend to listen to squeaky wheels. At the end of the day, they've made more off of your premiums, (non-)claims, and value they'll recoup selling your wrecked vehicle, than the check they write to you. It's unfortunate, but what they are looking to do is maximize their profit (at your cost) rather than do the right thing and get as close to a $0 balance as possible and look long-term at keeping you as a happy customer.

If there is any possible way to get them, I highly recommend USAA. I'm fortunate that my wife has it through her father (retired Air Force Officer) and by extension I have it now. USAA is excellent. State Farm and Farmers come in second and third respectively and they've been very good to my family over the years.

[GardoneVT]

Solid effort on your part. Insurance companies tend to listen to squeaky wheels. At the end of the day, they've made more off of your premiums, (non-)claims, and value they'll recoup selling your wrecked vehicle, than the check they write to you. It's unfortunate, but what they are looking to do is maximize their profit (at your cost) rather than do the right thing and get as close to a $0 balance as possible and look long-term at keeping you as a happy customer.

If there is any possible way to get them, I highly recommend USAA. I'm fortunate that my wife has it through her father (retired Air Force Officer) and by extension I have it now. USAA is excellent. State Farm and Farmers come in second and third respectively and they've been very good to my family over the years.

For what it’s worth I second the plug for USAA as well.

Note that if the OPs experience is any indication, there’s probably a high number of loss claims in his area from crappy drivers. Enough so that his insurance company might decide they’re better off without him as a customer- hence the hardball treatment .

A lot of larger corporate firms unfortunately hold the attitude that individual customer retention doesn’t matter- X number of new people sign up regardless,so losing Y number of clients to other companies is an acceptable business cost.

[butler coach]

So we need to know what you despise to buy and there must be pictures.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spartan1980]

My mother had her house and auto with the same agent for almost 40 years. She was shocked when I finally got her to shop around. She just couldn't believe that there is ZERO value in customer loyalty to insurance companies anymore. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. At least that's their perception.

It pays to shop your policies every 3 to 5 years. USAA seems to be the sole exception, I've yet to hear anything bad about them.

[Salamander]

- Chicago has stupid drivers too.

There are still drivers out there who bought their license from George Ryan... pretty sure I see a few of them every time I'm back in Chicago. last trip in April, saw someone stop in the middle of a block on a four lane highway for no apparent reason.

[NH Shooter]

I'd bet a 3in N-frame that it'd much simpler to just turbocharge the XV's stock engine. It's fundamentally almost identical to the FA20/4UGSE engine found in the FRS/BRZ/GT86 and over fifty different vendors developed turbo kits for that engine, that I'm aware of.


Yes indeed, but it sure would be nice to have that as a factory option. That said, the Crosstrek is not marketed as a go-fast vehicle and the stock engine, though a bit under-whelming, is certainly adequate for normal driving and any off-roading someone might do in a Subaru. Getting 30+ MPG in a full time AWD vehicle isn't too shabby either.

[Nephrology]

My mother had her house and auto with the same agent for almost 40 years. She was shocked when I finally got her to shop around. She just couldn't believe that there is ZERO value in customer loyalty to insurance companies anymore. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. At least that's their perception.

It pays to shop your policies every 3 to 5 years. USAA seems to be the sole exception, I've yet to hear anything bad about them.

My agent got back to me personally at 9:30 the next business day to loop me in with a customer advocate, so we'll see what happens. I want to give them a chance to make this right as this is my first real problem with them in 3 years. if I feel miffed in any way, I am happy to look for a new quote.

Ironically, just got the reminder that my registration on the RAV4 was due to expire in July. Saved myself ~$160 I guess...