“Why Can’t We Hate Men?”

[TR675]

Here is a real article published in the Washington Post.

My mind never fails to be blown by the tone of our current discourse in the academy, media, and politics.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-cant-we-hate-men/2018/06/08/f1a3a8e0-6451-11e8-a69c-b944de66d9e7_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.619f8d9af776


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[blues]

I agree that there's plenty of historic and current injustice to point at...but going to war about it isn't going to end well. For anyone. But probably some more than others.

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm dumb enough I thought it was going to be "because they are so cute and cuddly" at the end. Plus, I had to look up "incel".

So, since women are so often victimized and are at a physical disadvantage, I wonder what the author's take on firearms ownership is.

[TR675]

The “incel”...movement?...is pretty interesting. Take the attitude from this garbage article, turn it 180 degrees, add an unhealthy dose of entitlement and even more whining about victimization, set it on fire, and you’ve got incels.


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[Bigghoss]

So, since women are so often victimized and are at a physical disadvantage, I wonder what the author's take on firearms ownership is.

She already used the term "mass gun violence" so we know she'd rather force everyone down to her level rather than do anything to hoist herself higher.

[JodyH]

I'm so glad I live in flyover middle of freakin nowhere desert country and have been married to a sane woman for over 25 years.

[Trooper224]

God forbid, if anything happened to my wife I'd probably be a volcel. This shit's just too tots cray cray for me.

[fixer]

Is this where we are at now with current thinking? That there is flat out vitriolic hatred for people with a penis? This is academic?

Ok...

Fix your own damn car, bitch.

Modern academia is literally in business of shaping their own gender roles: turning men into women and women into men.

Good luck with that.

[fixer]

I'm so glad I live in flyover middle of freakin nowhere desert country and have been married to a sane woman for over 25 years.

I wonder how many people have been upset or 'triggered' by the huge 'SUPPORT THE NRA' bill board in Hobbs. So awesome.

[Clusterfrack]

Yeah, that article was pretty hateful.

[Joe in PNG]

It's the kind of utter stupidity that only a really spoiled, privileged, and prosperous culture could come up.

[SeriousStudent]

I didn't need to read anything past the byline:

Suzanna Danuta Walters, a professor of sociology and director of the Women’s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies Program at Northeastern University, is the editor of the gender studies journal Signs.

[blues]

https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1429114964p5/9810.jpg

"Frankly, I think people have interpreted relativity a little too liberally. I should have just kept my mouth shut."



/s

[fixer]

I was told once in a Women' studies class at Ariz. State, (yeah electives... and bad decisions) with full attendance that so much as asking a woman what time it is amounts to violence against a woman.

yeah.

The female professor had PHD and a tenure track.

Keep raising that tuition!

[blues]

Kobe tried to tell men that they were heading down a dark road...


https://media.giphy.com/media/xT1XGESDlxj0GwoDRe/giphy.gif



/s

[LOKNLOD]

The world has gone fuckin' crazy, man.

Or,
The world has gone fuckin' crazy, cisgender male-identifying penis-wielding toxic oppressor.

[olstyn]

There's no denying that there are men who have behaved and continue to behave in inexcusable ways, but I'm tired of reading the sort of argument that article puts forth, that I'm somehow culpable for crimes I had no part in committing simply because I'm a white male. It is interesting that there are people out there who think that sort of argument is persuasive, though. It feels like they're saying that everybody else (or at least their disfavored group) is guilty until proven innocent, while they get to remain innocent until proven guilty.

[45dotACP]

I didn't need to read anything past the byline:

Suzanna Danuta Walters, a professor of sociology and director of the Women’s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies Program at Northeastern University, is the editor of the gender studies journal Signs.Thank God she's not in a position to mold the minds of the next genera....

Fuck.

Maybe Jordan Peterson is on to something when he talks about the validity of gender studies.

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[RJ]

I got about 30 seconds, in my normal low-coffee warning light early Sunday condition, before I realized it was the Washington Compost and stopped reading.

On topic, if my wife ever got really mad at me, I’d experience Eunuch-cel, let alone incel, whatever the heck that is.

Just insert ‘why can’t we hate blacks’ or ‘why can’t we hate gays’ or ‘why can’t we hate Police’ here to see the utter insanity of this dangerous line of thinking. The problem is that this mindset seems to be gaining traction among the Samantha Bee types. I’m not quite sure what, if anything, can be done, given we live in a free society. I just hope our American values will endure.

[JodyH]

The problem is that this mindset seems to be gaining traction among the Samantha Bee types. I’m not quite sure what, if anything, can be done, given we live in a free society.
Things are being done.
A lot of young men are "checking out" of society in areas of the country where this mentality is prevalent.
These young men are no longer participating to better (or even maintain) society, they're doing just enough to get by.
The ramifications of that will be felt big time when the things only men can do (yes Dear, there are things women can't do) start to shut down.

What I find really funny is that as the Samantha Bee types age they start to realize that cat ranching isn't the future they really wanted but it's too late now because their "expiration date" has come and gone.

This'll self correct in a decade or so, but it's going to be interesting to see what happens in the mean time.

[RevolverRob]

Why can’t we hate men?

Because sperm is still necessary to produce more people...

[Dan_S]

Things are being done.
A lot of young men are "checking out" of society in areas of the country where this mentality is prevalent.
These young men are no longer participating to better (or even maintain) society, they're doing just enough to get by.
The ramifications of that will be felt big time when the things only men can do (yes Dear, there are things women can't do) start to shut down.

What I find really funny is that as the Samantha Bee types age they start to realize that cat ranching isn't the future they really wanted but it's too late now because their "expiration date" has come and gone.

This'll self correct in a decade or so, but it's going to be interesting to see what happens in the mean time.


How, and in what capacity, are large numbers ‘checking out’?

How will things self-correct?


Genuinely curious, as none of this makes any sense to me (the whole mentality behind the article, etc).

[JodyH]

How, and in what capacity, are large numbers ‘checking out’?

How will things self-correct?


Genuinely curious, as none of this makes any sense to me (the whole mentality behind the article, etc).
Men are checking out by playing video games and working menial retail jobs well into their 30's.
Society is built and maintained by men that age trying to impress women.
When the women aren't appreciative (or worse, actually hostile) towards those men they'll just stop trying.
That's when things start to grind to a halt.
Even the most rabid feminist is scared of starving to death in the dark.
When the power is flickering and winter is coming, that Starbucks barista isn't nearly as appealing of a mate as the power plant mechanic.

[Dan_S]

Ah, ok. Makes sense.



On the flip side of that, I’ve checked out to a large degree as well.

I pretty much live to work, and don’t choose to interact socially with the video gaming, clueless crowd that would fall into my ‘peer-group’.

[SAWBONES]

Because sperm is still necessary to produce more people...

Yeah, well, those who compose screeds like the OP-referenced article know that the the existing frozen semen stockpiles will suffice for a while, after which we "penised-oppressors" can simply be "milked", with or against our wills, on "sperm farms".
:p

Lotsa good responses in this thread!

When I read crap like the article in question, I thank God for my straight-thinking, normal-feeling wife, and that I'm old and experienced enough to be no longer subject to any of the currents of Western Zeitgeist!

[GardoneVT]

Men are checking out by playing video games and working menial retail jobs well into their 30's.
Society is built and maintained by men that age trying to impress women.
When the women aren't appreciative (or worse, actually hostile) towards those men they'll just stop trying.
That's when things start to grind to a halt.
Even the most rabid feminist is scared of starving to death in the dark.
When the power is flickering and winter is coming, that Starbucks barista isn't nearly as appealing of a mate as the power plant mechanic.

No sale.

The men (and women for that matter)who are playing video games and working menial retail jobs tend to be stuck in a position where they can’t afford college,but don’t qualify for a job without a degree that pays well enough to afford it. I solved this problem by joining the military. Many don’t have that option,and resign themselves to the dilemma .If military service isn’t an option and trade jobs aren’t plentiful or easy to join, it is a long and tough road to earn a degree out of pocket these days.

The successful guys are still angling to impress women as they’ve always done. Lamborghini isn’t hurting for income ,and the three big US car companies are printing money making bigger and more expensive pickup trucks. It’s almost like the world keeps on turning despite the extremist opinions of socially maladjusted men and women.

[Dan_S]

The GM sales lot inventory is not an accurate metric of reality...

[JodyH]

If military service isn’t an option and trade jobs aren’t plentiful or easy to join,
$100k+ a year, pass a DOT physical/drug screen, zero experience required.
Hundreds of those jobs open in the oilfield right now.
Trades apprenticeships (welders helper, instrumentation, electrician, mechanic, etc) have the same low requirements and pay damn near as much right now.
One major oil company I do work for has over 100 job openings and practically zero applicants.

A real job interferes with their dope smoking and video game schedule.

[Greg]

I took a Gender Studies "class" in the early 1990s at that hotbed of crazy leftism, the University of Utah. I did it because it fulfilled a number of graduation requirements and, on paper, seemed like the most reasonable choice.

It was absolutely the most fucked-up, batshit crazy bullshit I had to endure (and pay for). The professor was your classic fat, dumpy, man hater, so much so that she was annoyed that her dog liked me. (All dogs like me - babies, not so much)

Eating meat was becuz the patriarchy. Heterosexuality was a societal mandate forced upon us. Motherhood was slavery - I can only imagine how bad it is now in Universities. This was 25 years ago.

Any push back or challenging the lunacy was not welcome. Academically, it was easy as hell - just regurgitate the BS back at them. Listening to the lunatics (she had 2 acolytes) was the hard part. One of her assistants passed the hat around the room seeking donations to have her breast implants removed. Since society made her get a fake rack, she felt fine hitting up the students for money to have them removed.

[fixer]

I took a Gender Studies "class" in the early 1990s at that hotbed of crazy leftism, the University of Utah. I did it because it fulfilled a number of graduation requirements and, on paper, seemed like the most reasonable choice.

It was absolutely the most fucked-up, batshit crazy bullshit I had to endure (and pay for). The professor was your classic fat, dumpy, man hater, so much so that she was annoyed that her dog liked me. (All dogs like me - babies, not so much)

Eating meat was becuz the patriarchy. Heterosexuality was a societal mandate forced upon us. Motherhood was slavery - I can only imagine how bad it is now in Universities. This was 25 years ago.

Any push back or challenging the lunacy was not welcome. Academically, it was easy as hell - just regurgitate the BS back at them. Listening to the lunatics (she had 2 acolytes) was the hard part. One of her assistants passed the hat around the room seeking donations to have her breast implants removed. Since society made her get a fake rack, she felt fine hitting up the students for money to have them removed.

fucking wow.

Mirrors my trip through a similar class at ASU.

[RJ]

$100k+ a year, pass a DOT physical/drug screen, zero experience required.
Hundreds of those jobs open in the oilfield right now.
Trades apprenticeships (welders helper, instrumentation, electrician, mechanic, etc) have the same low requirements and pay damn near as much right now.
One major oil company I do work for has over 100 job openings and practically zero applicants.

A real job interferes with their dope smoking and video game schedule.

My son is learning to be a big rig Diesel engine mechanic. He’s pretty busy.

My work is offering a four figure bounty for anyone referring a successful hiree (I’m in Aerospace).

Retail and Commercial constructing is booming. We had 10% housing price rise in our county last year. In Florida at least the economy is begging for people to fill jobs.

[Peally]

Why can't I hate women?

Because that would make me a piece of shit lunatic for hating literally half the population on the planet based on their genitals.


Fucking world we live in.

[SAWBONES]

Why can't I hate women?

Because that would make me a piece of shit lunatic for hating literally half the population on the planet based on their genitals.


Fucking world we live in.


Common sense, really.
What is wrong with such people?
How were they so weak-minded as to be capable of being influenced into becoming this way?

[Shoresy]

Common sense, really.
What is wrong with such people?
How were they so weak-minded as to be capable of being influenced into becoming this way?

Well given that they can't look at an event through a lens other than a single, binary demographic, my guess is that they started out weak-minded and never matured/developed past it. The bigger issue is that anyone in our society pays any attention (awards degrees to, publishes ideas from, hires, etc) these clowns.

[SAWBONES]

Well given that they can't look at an event through a lens other than a single, binary demographic, my guess is that they started out weak-minded and never matured/developed past it. The bigger issue is that anyone in our society pays any attention (awards degrees to, publishes ideas from, hires, etc) these clowns.

It's my hope that very few people actually pay any attention to articles or editorials written by such people.

Modern college-level academia in the social sciences is already a lost cause, however, I'm afraid.

I fear for my grandchildren, given my pessimistic assumptions about the character of the society in which they must grow up.

[okie john]

Common sense, really.
What is wrong with such people?
How were they so weak-minded as to be capable of being influenced into becoming this way?

I think rage is a big part of it. They’re furious about something that happened to them and they need an outlet. Same is true for a lot of men.


Okie John

[OnionsAndDragons]

$100k+ a year, pass a DOT physical/drug screen, zero experience required.
Hundreds of those jobs open in the oilfield right now.
Trades apprenticeships (welders helper, instrumentation, electrician, mechanic, etc) have the same low requirements and pay damn near as much right now.
One major oil company I do work for has over 100 job openings and practically zero applicants.

A real job interferes with their dope smoking and video game schedule.

Agreed. If one can relocate, there are still lots of opportunities.

If one can't, I still call BS.

It may be pretty rough putting oneself through a decent 4-year degree program with no assistance. I grant that. It isn't that hard to put oneself through a 2-year community college program or certificate school like EMT/Paramedic.

There are lots of med tech programs that pay really good money that don't involve busting your nuts out on a rig. Here in bumfuck indiana you can do a 3-6mo dialysis tech program and get hired in at $18-20/hr with bonus gap pay and 5-10hrs OT every week you want it. And a well-mannered monkey could do that job. You just have to put up with miserable people that did it all to themselves every day.


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[RevolverRob]

I read this crap and the crap posted by the otherside (Incels).

Then I go over to Instagram and check out the thousands of pictures women post of themselves daily - that tells me that they don't hate men (or at least the attention they get from men).

I wonder if the women who pen this stuff are the female versions of the male Incels? It's all hate and rage.

[Clusterfrack]

I was thinking about this some more during a run today, and how the social justice movement will affect my daughters (18 & 22). My hope is that my girls will have as many choices as possible in their future. I want them to be able to compete for jobs with a 6 figure salary if they choose to take that path. I also want them to have healthy, long-lasting marriages--and to have a family if they choose to. And, it is my firm belief that success requires competing (explicitly or implicitly) against other people.

So, when I see people becoming social justice activists and majoring in Ethnic or Gender Studies, I think: fewer people for my daughters to compete against. So far, they are off to a good start.

[Jared]

I read this crap and the crap posted by the otherside (Incels).

Then I go over to Instagram and check out the thousands of pictures women post of themselves daily - that tells me that they don't hate men (or at least the attention they get from men).

I wonder if the women who pen this stuff are the female versions of the male Incels? It's all hate and rage.

Yeah, that's the thing, the hugest majority of men and women actually enjoy the company of the opposite sex and the attention they get from the opposite sex. You'd know more about it than me Rob, but it seems to me like basic level survival of the species biology. Lunatics like this chick are outliers, the incel morons are outliers, but that's what makes them so attention grabbing, isn't it, the sheer absurdity of it all.

[RevolverRob]

.

So, when I see people becoming social justice activists and majoring in Ethnic or Gender Studies, I think: fewer people for my daughters to compete against. So far, they are off to a good start.

True. If I had kids your age - I would put out - Computer Science, Geoscience, and Chemistry degrees are the most employable post-bacclaurette. I’ve not yet had a CS major student who failed to get a job as long as they had quasi-decent grades and one internship.


Yeah, that's the thing, the hugest majority of men and women actually enjoy the company of the opposite sex and the attention they get from the opposite sex. You'd know more about it than me Rob, but it seems to me like basic level survival of the species biology. Lunatics like this chick are outliers, the incel morons are outliers, but that's what makes them so attention grabbing, isn't it, the sheer absurdity of it all.

Well, even if it permeates our culture - the reality is we’re a sexually reproducing species. If our culture doesn’t reproduce? Others have shown they will fill the gap. Men and women will never not exist for humanity unless we get to extinction levels. Even if we could artificially produce viable semen (we can’t currently) - production could never keep up with demand.

[DallasBronco]

I read this crap and the crap posted by the otherside (Incels).

Then I go over to Instagram and check out the thousands of pictures women post of themselves daily - that tells me that they don't hate men (or at least the attention they get from men).

I wonder if the women who pen this stuff are the female versions of the male Incels? It's all hate and rage.
I think this is pretty accurate. I also think this is a bunch of jackasses who can't get dates feeling empowered because now the say the don't WANT dates.

[okie john]

I wonder if the women who pen this stuff are the female versions of the male Incels? It's all hate and rage.

Hard to say. I used to work with two women like this, one of whom was my boss for a while. Both were funny, off-the-charts intelligent, and very good at their jobs, which were not in academia. At times being around them could be a lot of fun. Neither was celibate, but both had this massive sensitive spot around men (especially middle-aged white men), who they blamed for their own spectacularly shitty life choices. Once they got triggered, things got ugly fast. It was always someone else making their lives miserable. To be honest, both of them had endured heavy-duty sexual discrimination and harassment that resulted in legitimate rage, but none of their bad choices were ever their own fault.

The other thing that I remember about them is that they were the first to crow about feminism and women's rights, but both wanted men to pay the bills.


Okie John

[critter]

...who they blamed for their own spectacularly shitty life choices...but none of their bad choices were ever their own fault.

The other thing that I remember about them is that they were the first to crow about feminism and women's rights, but both wanted men to pay the bills.



This is pretty much a summation female nature in action even with women who don't identify with the batshit parts of feminist ideology. The same behaviors are present but simply in less toxic, less overt manners.

Men delude themselves into believing otherwise right up to point of drinking the poison... or hiring lawyers... whichever comes first :cool:

[Sensei]

I wonder what the feminist think about this heart warming story of triumph over adversity.

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/06/10/latest-boys-beat-girls-track-event-story/

[olstyn]

I wonder what the feminist think about this heart warming story of triumph over adversity.

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/06/10/latest-boys-beat-girls-track-event-story/

Seems to me that this is functionally equivalent to taking performance-enhancing drugs. I really cannot understand how it's allowed, as it virtually guarantees that no actual girl ever has a chance at winning. Might as well just quit having separate competitions for boys and girls.

[critter]

I wonder what the feminist think about this heart warming story of triumph over adversity.

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/06/10/latest-boys-beat-girls-track-event-story/

SMH... apparently one already chimed in:



The Daily Wire goes on to ask the pertinent follow-up question. What about the actual girls who came in third and fourth in the race but would have otherwise won had the event been properly restricted by gender? And since only the top six competitors are able to advance to the New England regional event, how about the girls who came in 7th and 8th who will not have a chance to go?

CIAC executive director Karissa Niehoff had this to say. “We do feel for them. Fully agree it doesn’t feel good. The optic isn’t good. But we really do have to look at the bigger issues that speak to civil rights and the fact this is high school sports.”


Paraphrasing: "No biggie, it fits our agenda."

[willie]

A mean woman told me that she had a dresser drawer full of dicks at the house, and they were all bigger than mine. That was in 1973, and I ain't got over it yet.

[JodyH]

As soon as the trannies take over NCAA women's sports and the olympics it's game over.
All those sweet scholarships, gold medals and endorsement contracts will go to men.

This is almost as sweet as Bruce Jenner being named the 2015 woman of the year.
How pathetic are women when a mentally ill man is the best representation of what it is to be a modern woman?
Women can't even beat a man at being a woman.

Progressive "logic" is hilarious at times.

[olstyn]

This is almost as sweet as Bruce Jenner being named the 2015 woman of the year.

Man, don't bring that up anywhere near my wife - she'll go off on a rant about how his/her/its comments make women in general look silly and stupid. I 100% agree with her; I just don't need to hear it again. :)

[Peally]

Women can't even beat a man at being a woman.

OK, I laughed

[JodyH]

OK, I laughed
I like to get my feminist SJW sister-in-law wound up with that one.
:p

[fixer]

We've politicized pro sports.
We've politicized news.
We've politicized guns and ammo
We've politicized entire geographical locations in US.

Now we have moved on to sex and gender.

When the famous quote 'the personal is political' became a mantra, I didn't think it would become a bonafide declaration.

People have literally lost their fucking minds.

[cheby]

The scariest thing is the people like this one are absolute majority in every college in this country. It didn't happen overnight. It's been a steady process for a long while that now is complete. It's a huge echo chamber that is very rigid and judgmental. This monster destroys anyone who deviates from the approved party line.

[Ed L]

Men are checking out by playing video games and working menial retail jobs well into their 30's.
Society is built and maintained by men that age trying to impress women.


Even if the men ignore women and have no interest in sex with anyone, that doesn't make sense. I can understand some men may do that, but it makes sense to strive to make as much money as you can--be it by a college path that leads to something serious, or a well selected trade--be it welding, electrician, plumbing, auto mechanics, or air conditioning repair, etc. You money to spend on things that you like--be it a nice lifestyle, hobby, retirement, etc.

[Ed L]

$100k+ a year, pass a DOT physical/drug screen, zero experience required.
Hundreds of those jobs open in the oilfield right now.
Trades apprenticeships (welders helper, instrumentation, electrician, mechanic, etc) have the same low requirements and pay damn near as much right now.
One major oil company I do work for has over 100 job openings and practically zero applicants.

A real job interferes with their dope smoking and video game schedule.

Oops, I responded to your first post before I read the rest of the thread. Maybe I spoke too soon.

I think it is more of a matter many young people who because of how and where they grew up see those types of skilled trade jobs as something as foreign as being an astronaut.

So they get a college degree that may be in a subject of dubious value and go to work in retail, which doesn't nearly pay as much.

[Hambo]

Men are checking out by playing video games and working menial retail jobs well into their 30's.

I think they're just lazy.

My wife works with recently graduated nurses, meaning they're 20-22 years old. One of them was living with her boyfriend, who managed to donate enough sperm for her to have a child with him. Her brother also lived with her. Neither of the drones had a job and she paid all the bills and did most of the work around the house. They sat around playing video games.

You can't check out if you never advance past 13.

[Joe in PNG]

The scariest thing is the people like this one are absolute majority in every college in this country. It didn't happen overnight. It's been a steady process for a long while that now is complete. It's a huge echo chamber that is very rigid and judgmental. This monster destroys anyone who deviates from the approved party line.

The monster is also destroying itself- Higher Education is a big bubble right about to pop, and we're going to see a big crash when it does.

[blues]

This sort of thread makes one not mind being midway through their 60's. I wouldn't trade a second of the life I've lived to go back in time...especially if this is what I had to look forward to.

[DocGKR]

"True. If I had kids your age - I would put out - Computer Science, Geoscience, and Chemistry degrees are the most employable post-bacclaurette. I’ve not yet had a CS major student who failed to get a job as long as they had quasi-decent grades and one internship."

As noted, there are lots of good jobs available. I have yet to find an RN who was unable to rapidly secure a job; same for PA's. To get a BSN degree, go to community college for 2 years to complete prerequisites (less than $6000 in tuition); then transfer to a state college for 2 years (about $18,000 in tuition)--start working at $95,000 or more per year. Get additional graduate school training (often paid by the employer) and advanced nursing salaries can climb up to $200,000 per year; the highest paid APP I know is making $330,000 per year...

Likewise various med tech programs only require 2 years of community college; so far an outlay of $6000 or so, you can get a job starting at $55-75k a year....

[JRB]

$100k+ a year, pass a DOT physical/drug screen, zero experience required.
Hundreds of those jobs open in the oilfield right now.
Trades apprenticeships (welders helper, instrumentation, electrician, mechanic, etc) have the same low requirements and pay damn near as much right now.
One major oil company I do work for has over 100 job openings and practically zero applicants.

A real job interferes with their dope smoking and video game schedule.

If you have an online job listing or point of contact number/email address for these jobs, please PM that to me!
I would love to provide that information to the Soldiers in my Army Reserve unit. Many of them have maintenance and petroleum MOS's and mil experience as well, and would absolutely love to get a job that pays that well even if it's in southern NM.

There's a few former roughnecks in my unit but they tell us countless stories of working (and we do mean *HARD WORK*) 12-16 hours a day for weeks at a time, sleeping what little they can in tents, campers, and single-wide trailer barracks off 285 because a crappy hotel in Roswell or Ft Stockton is hundreds of dollars a night - and bringing home 45k-55k salaries for it. Predictably, the burnout factor is high. One of them makes about the same as he did roughnecking by working as a cook during the day and working at Walmart stocking shelves at night, and driving for Uber/Lyft in between and he says the hours about match up and it's a lot less stressful and physically demanding.


As noted, there are lots of good jobs available. I have yet to find an RN who was unable to rapidly secure a job; same for PA's. To get a BSN degree, go to community college for 2 years to complete prerequisites (less than $6000 in tuition); then transfer to a state college for 2 years (about $18,000 in tuition)--start working at $95,000 or more per year. Get additional graduate school training (often paid by the employer) and advanced nursing salaries can climb up to $200,000 per year; the highest paid APP I know is making $330,000 per year...

Likewise various med tech programs only require 2 years of community college; so far an outlay of $6000 or so, you can get a job starting at $55-75k a year....

I believe this varies significantly from region to region.

There are limited class sizes in the local community college nursing program and the wait list is typically in the 1.5-3 year range for beginning students. Transferring to UNM for the rest of the 4 year degree can also take time, as UNM prioritizes their own nursing students over transfers, so required classes can take 2-3 semesters to get.

The only competition for this are private colleges such as Brookline and Carrington which cost $35-50k for a A.S. in Nursing with an RN - which is going out of style fast, as most major hospitals and providers in the area are no longer hiring RN's as RN's unless they've got a BSN. They'll hire you as an LPN, though.

Jobs in this area start LPN's & 2-year RN's in the high 30's to low 40's. Following through with a BSN is worth another 10-15k to start. It's a decent living in the area, especially with housing costs in this area compared to Cali.
But the only 'Nursing' fields in the area truly into the triple digits with regularity are CRNA's.

Here, dialysis techs are in the $15-17/hr range and require much less schooling, as previously mentioned.


Truth be told, I always hear stories about all of the high-paying jobs that are available and typically from folks that are advanced in their own lucrative careers or otherwise doing well for themselves.
Then I send my Reserve Soldiers after these jobs and they've got all the qualifications - physically good shape, pass drug tests, have field-related experience in maintenance, petroleum, etc. and believe me, these guys *WANT* these jobs - and the jobs either don't exist or pay substantially less than everyone's saying.

[JodyH]

httphttps://www.jobfairsnow.com/job-fair-dates.html
My partner company had a booth at the last job fair here.
While I was walking around the place I saw the following:
Frac sand and water hauling trucking companies had pay scales starting at $22/hr. (water haulers) and going up to $40/hr. for sand haulers with OTR experience (and all the hours you want up to DOT limits), plus monthly safety bonuses and signing bonuses of $2000-$3000.
Companies like Concho Resources, Oxy, Devon and other producers all have dozens of open entry positions for lease operators, and entry field tech jobs starting at $55k plus great benefit packages.
There are big tax incentives for companies to hire vets as well.
My Linked-In inbox gets blown up every week with hundreds of oilfield jobs in the Texas/NM Permian Basin (I track it so I know what the job market looks like as I hire for new positions) and nobody pays less than $20-$25/hr. because that's pretty much "minimum wage" around here if you want any applicants at all.

[Stephanie B]

This sort of thread makes one not mind being midway through their 60's. I wouldn't trade a second of the life I've lived to go back in time...especially if this is what I had to look forward to.
My grandmother's family thought that her uncle was crazy because, when she was a child, that she would live to see men fly. She lived to see men walk on the Moon.

She once told me that she thought that I'd live to see amazing things. And in some ways, I have. But when I look at the trends and then I look at children playing, my first thought it to say "it's going to suck to be you."

[Stephanie B]

Q: What's the difference between a women's studies major and a pizza?
A: You can feed four people with a pizza.

Q: How do you get a women's studies major to leave your front porch?
A: Pay her for the pizza.

I've got no issue with majors such as women's studies or art history or philosophy. But they really should double-major in something that'll be reasonably calculated to lead to employment at a decent rate of pay.

[Stephanie B]

Here is a real article published in the Washington Post.

My mind never fails to be blown by the tone of our current discourse in the academy, media, and politics.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-cant-we-hate-men/2018/06/08/f1a3a8e0-6451-11e8-a69c-b944de66d9e7_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.619f8d9af776

I don't see where that article passes the "so, what" test. Yes, discrimination exists. But at the end of the day, anger, unless one channels it to do positive things, is futile.

[willie]

Stephanie, what about archaeology for a major? I'm thinking of applying to Harvard or Yale and becoming a mummy specialist?

[Clusterfrack]

Q: What's the difference between a women's studies major and a pizza?
A: You can feed four people with a pizza.

Q: How do you get a women's studies major to leave your front porch?
A: Pay her for the pizza.

I've got no issue with majors such as women's studies or art history or philosophy. But they really should double-major in something that'll be reasonably calculated to lead to employment at a decent rate of pay.

[emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]

I’m not convinced that X Studies are valid academic disciplines. They seem more like an excuse to promote activism over scholarship, exclude dissenting opinions and publish in the Circle Jerk Journal of X Studies where you get hugs for reviews.

Even Environmental Studies is probably better done in Poly Sci, Econ, and Bio.

A few interdisciplinary fields —like Materials Science—have managed to carve our truly fertile, highly competitive niches at the interface of other fields. But only a few.

[RevolverRob]

[emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]

I’m not convinced that X Studies are valid academic disciplines. They seem more like an excuse to promote activism over scholarship, exclude dissenting opinions and publish in the Circle Jerk Journal of X Studies where you get hugs for reviews.

Interdisciplinary studies programs are usually poorly run - that's the biggest problem. The pet project of a few faculty members.


Even Environmental Studies is probably better done in Poly Sci, Econ, and Bio.

Geosciences. They are best done in geology - because 99% of the jobs in "Environmental Studies" are "environmental monitor" jobs, where people test water, observe construction, do survey work, etc. It's best done by someone with training in mineralogy, hydrology, and maybe a little bit of biology.


A few interdisciplinary fields —like Materials Science—have managed to carve our truly fertile, highly competitive niches at the interface of other fields. But only a few.

The general idea, these days, is that interdisciplinary approaches - give the degree holder/seeker options with respect to employment. Also builds on the parallel fields theory that is permeating business. That is - people who have experience with similar problems in different fields are able find novel solutions that specialists within a field may not see. That said, I'm not convinced an interdisciplinary undergrad degree is better than a targeted BS and a targeted MS in a different (but closely related) field in terms of building skills.

In my case, when I'm done, I'll have three degrees in three different fields and thus have options for employment - but they're all interrelated fields and most importantly, I have built networking connections and published work that intersects across them. I could just as easily have accomplished this with degrees in one field and publications in another, it just worked out that way for me.

[cheby]

[emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]

I’m not convinced that X Studies are valid academic disciplines. They seem more like an excuse to promote activism over scholarship, exclude dissenting opinions and publish in the Circle Jerk Journal of X Studies where you get hugs for reviews.

Even Environmental Studies is probably better done in Poly Sci, Econ, and Bio.

A few interdisciplinary fields —like Materials Science—have managed to carve our truly fertile, highly competitive niches at the interface of other fields. But only a few.

very true.
From what I see, the people who are getting promoted the most in the colleges these days, are women with "PhD"s in something like women study or "lesbian dance theory" to quote Ben Shapiro. They dominate all administrative positions and control the hiring policies.

[DocGKR]

JRB--My comments regarding nursing salaries are definitely germane only to this locale. I work at a large academic medical center that is always in need of nurses, so much so that they are constantly bringing in high paid travelers. I know the pay sale here, but realize it may differ in other areas of the country.

Likewise, I have a daughter who is about to graduate with a BSN and another who is about to start her nursing training; the one who is graduating did two years at community college and transferred to a state school. When she applied, she got into 30 nursing programs and had no waiting list issues. Her imminent new grad salary is quite impressive for a 4 year degree. She plans on working for 2 years as an RN, then going back for an NP in Critical Care which should about double her salary based on what the NP's here are earning.

[Darth_Uno]

$100k+ a year, pass a DOT physical/drug screen, zero experience required.
Hundreds of those jobs open in the oilfield right now.
Trades apprenticeships (welders helper, instrumentation, electrician, mechanic, etc) have the same low requirements and pay damn near as much right now.
One major oil company I do work for has over 100 job openings and practically zero applicants.

A real job interferes with their dope smoking and video game schedule.

Same here. While not 100k a year, I pay my top carpenters $30/hr plus health/vision/dental, and some of them get a company van or truck. You start at the bottom but I will literally pay you to learn a trade.

And the biggest issue I have is these kids (up to late 20's, but mentally still children) just won't show up on time or at all. They think I'll just go along with any excuse they throw at me, and are genuinely shocked when I tell them it's not gonna fly. Everybody's got problems, and yours are not going to become mine. I'm not a big company (got 10 other guys currently on payroll) and the biggest and almost only reason I fire anyone is for being consistently late or not showing up.

[willie]

A safe generalization is that nurses can easily find employment, and that their salaries are highly competitive. High certifying standards and very strict state board rules for maintaining certification are two reasons. Nursing programs are not producing numbers of graduates needed. These programs are difficult to set up. For them obtaining accreditation is a stringent and not easily attained goal. The programs are expensive to maintain because instructor salaries are very high. Thus, nursing programs are few when compared to others. The folks in charge may maintain this shortage.

[45dotACP]

As noted, there are lots of good jobs available. I have yet to find an RN who was unable to rapidly secure a job; same for PA's. To get a BSN degree, go to community college for 2 years to complete prerequisites (less than $6000 in tuition); then transfer to a state college for 2 years (about $18,000 in tuition)--start working at $95,000 or more per year. Get additional graduate school training (often paid by the employer) and advanced nursing salaries can climb up to $200,000 per year; the highest paid APP I know is making $330,000 per year...

Likewise various med tech programs only require 2 years of community college; so far an outlay of $6000 or so, you can get a job starting at $55-75k a year....

As noted, there are lots of good jobs available. I have yet to find an RN who was unable to rapidly secure a job; same for PA's. To get a BSN degree, go to community college for 2 years to complete prerequisites (less than $6000 in tuition); then transfer to a state college for 2 years (about $18,000 in tuition)--start working at $95,000 or more per year. Get additional graduate school training (often paid by the employer) and advanced nursing salaries can climb up to $200,000 per year; the highest paid APP I know is making $330,000 per year...

Likewise various med tech programs only require 2 years of community college; so far an outlay of $6000 or so, you can get a job starting at $55-75k a year....

*sigh*

I wish being a nurse in IL paid like being a nurse in California.

Still...I had two 65k a year jobs with benefits at hospitals lined up loooong before I graduated. Although, if your hospital that offers lots of OT and report pay you can make close to six figures by just picking up a few extra shifts a pay period.

The worst part about nursing school was having to go to a college to do the dumbass liberal arts prereqs and deal with their professors.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[DocGKR]

"I wish being a nurse in IL paid like being a nurse in California."

Of course living in CA is a bit more expensive than IL.....

[Stephanie B]

A safe generalization is that nurses can easily find employment, and that their salaries are highly competitive. High certifying standards and very strict state board rules for maintaining certification are two reasons. Nursing programs are not producing numbers of graduates needed. These programs are difficult to set up. For them obtaining accreditation is a stringent and not easily attained goal. The programs are expensive to maintain because instructor salaries are very high. Thus, nursing programs are few when compared to others. The folks in charge may maintain this shortage.

All this is cyclical. There was a time in the late `80s or so when there were more nurses than jobs. It's kind of like being an aerospace engineer, timing is everything.

[TAZ]

All this is cyclical. There was a time in the late `80s or so when there were more nurses than jobs. It's kind of like being a potential employee.

Fixed it fir ya. EVERYTHING is cyclical. Some markets swing wildly while others have moderate swings, but they all swing.

[Stephanie B]

Stephanie, what about archaeology for a major? I'm thinking of applying to Harvard or Yale and becoming a mummy specialist?

You got a trust fund? :rolleyes:

Seriously, I don't know. The rules for what one can do with a degree from an Ivy-league school are different. The rules are also different if you're going to go into a family business.

And then there is student debt: It seems to cost much, much more. I remember what a full year's tuition, room, board and books cost when I went to school. It's doubled over the rate of inflation.

A full-cost semester was akin to buying a Chevy Vega back then, which was a car that exemplified "piece of shit". A full-cost semester now is a Chevy Impala.

[Clusterfrack]

A PhD in Archeology? Is this a real question?

[blues]

A PhD in Archeology? Is this a real question?

Maybe he meant the study of arches. 'Cause he's gonna wear 'em out looking for a job with that degree. ;)

[critter]

Maybe he meant the study of arches. 'Cause he's gonna wear 'em out looking for a job with that degree. ;)

I think i'd be looking for private or even government project funding rather than employment. Maybe something like "the study of the institutional oppression of dinosauric minorities and women throughout the fossil record." That should push the right buttons...

[blues]

I think i'd be looking for private or even government project funding rather than employment. Maybe something like "the study of the institutional oppression of dinosauric minorities and women throughout the fossil record." That should push the right buttons...

You forgot non-cisgendered. That's gonna set your funding back some...

[willie]

You forgot non-cisgendered. That's gonna set your funding back some...


A PhD in Archeology? Is this a real question?

I must confess to pulling Stephanie's leg. I'm too old, too dumb, too broke, too tired, and too whatever to do much other than what I'm doing now.

[Clusterfrack]

I must confess to pulling Stephanie's leg. I'm too old, too dumb, too broke, too tired, and too whatever to do much other than what I'm doing now.

I think you need to go dig up some mummies.

[RevolverRob]

-Ahem- as a degree holding former archeologist - I would be remiss to not set the record straight. 99% of archeology jobs are 'rescue archeology' positions, which are archeological surveys done by archeologist before and during construction projects. All states have archeology survey requirements as well as federal requirements.

This means, that an archeology degree is actually quite employable. Though, I will point out that an MS is really all you need to be hired at a senior level. A BA/BS with field school is all you need to go entry level. Of the dozen of us that went to field school together, nine of us have or continue to work as professional archeologists. Only three of us have gone on for advanced degrees of some type.

As for where to go - depends on your specialty. Arizona or Texas for Southwestern and Mayan Archeology. UChicago for Mesopatamia. Harvard or Oxford for Europe. Stony Brook for early human (pre-Homo saipien) studies. Texas A&M for underwater. Just about anywhere with a field school can get you an entry level job.

I know we like to make fun of Liberal Arts majors in general, but the latest numbers tell us that business administration degrees are the new underwater basketweaving these days.

[TGS]

A safe generalization is that nurses can easily find employment, and that their salaries are highly competitive. High certifying standards and very strict state board rules for maintaining certification are two reasons. Nursing programs are not producing numbers of graduates needed. These programs are difficult to set up. For them obtaining accreditation is a stringent and not easily attained goal. The programs are expensive to maintain because instructor salaries are very high. Thus, nursing programs are few when compared to others. The folks in charge may maintain this shortage.

The hospital system I worked for actually shuttered the nursing school it ran for about a hundred years.

Money pit.

[Stephanie B]

You forgot non-cisgendered.

CompuServe had a gender? I was on that service for almost 20 years, and I never knew that.

(All kidding aside, I know it means something else. But I’m getting too old to keep up with the current jargon, or to even care. So if you don’t mind, I’m going to go grab my M1 and tell those kids to get off my fucking lawn.)

[blues]

CompuServe had a gender? I was on that service for almost 20 years, and I never knew that.

(All kidding aside, I know it means something else. But I’m getting too old to keep up with the current jargon, or to even care. So if you don’t mind, I’m going to go grab my M1 and tell those kids to get off my fucking lawn.)

I prefer to think of you with a Sharps or Henry. But the M1 will do.

[willie]

What's wrong with under water basket weaving?;)

[olstyn]

It's kind of like being an aerospace engineer, timing is everything.

No kidding. My freshman year of college (late '90s), I met a 6th-year senior who had switched from Aerospace Engineering to Computer Science in his 4th year because he realized that at that point, AeroE was akin to getting a degree in pre-unemployment. It would not shock me at all to learn that things have changed in 20 years.

[Stephanie B]

I prefer to think of you with a Sharps or Henry. But the M1 will do.

I don’t have either. How about a Winchester 94?

[Stephanie B]

What's wrong with under water basket weaving?;)

If they can do it at a minimum water depth of ten feet, without an airline or SCUBA tanks, and if they can stay underwater for at least twenty minutes at a time, then go for it. They could make a living on the carny circuit. (Or they could have, until some yutz posts their act on YouTube.)

[willie]

All jokes aside, a young lady from my former high school left Texas and enrolled in a Missouri college because that college had the nation's best basket weaving program. I don't remember the specifics but do wonder whether or not she found employment after completing the program. I'm certain that the world has basket weaving experts that hold great fame within this specialty which probably has subspecialties like under water weaving or toe weaving or one hand weaving. Since I can barely tie a good fishing line knot, I hold weavers in great esteem. Remember the posts about incels? Not knowing this term and after looking it up, I learned that there is a high correlation between incel persons and one hand weavers. Fascinated, I lurked on an incel forum and concluded that many losers post there. I'm not saying that basket weavers are losers whether they be one hand or two hand types. Being a liberal, I overlook fruity behavior. Just say'in. :D