SICARIO II Day of the Soldado

[UNK]

June 29 2018. I'm already building a list of guys to go together see this when it comes out. Maybe make an outing of it. Smoke some ribs for before and billiards after. So grateful that whiny ass FBI Agent is not in this one. Liberal heads are already exploding that there are no female leads in this movie.

https://youtu.be/Pymm6cmE9uQ

https://youtu.be/Um5vH28jcFk

[ubervic]

I'm looking forward to seeing this. I really enjoyed the action in the original film, but the tense tone and the complex dynamics were the most compelling factors for me, making it very memorable. Some were annoyed by Emily Blunt's character, but I enjoyed witnessing her struggling through personal dilemmas as she discovered just how deep and misleading things are. Existential crisis writ large.

Oh, and I doubt that so-called 'liberals' will dislike this film any more or less for the presence or absence of female leads. :)

[UNK]

Oh, and I doubt that so-called 'liberals' will dislike this film any more or less for the presence or absence of female leads. :)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/12/19/sicario-2-trailer-no-emily-blunt-almost-no-women-at-all/#20311f101ffb


26798 26799

[UNK]

Another one worth watching in my opinion.

Interview of the filmmaker https://deadline.com/2016/02/oscars-matthew-heineman-cartel-land-best-documentary-interview-1201696793/


https://youtu.be/xC5bpPfltOI

[JM Campbell]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/12/19/sicario-2-trailer-no-emily-blunt-almost-no-women-at-all/#20311f101ffb

LOL, right...keep writing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ubervic]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/12/19/sicario-2-trailer-no-emily-blunt-almost-no-women-at-all/#20311f101ffb

That's really funny.

I can't imagine living my life looking for things to be annoyed about and complaining. I'm too busy enjoying things in my life.

[blues]

June 29 2018. I'm already building a list of guys to go together see this when it comes out. Maybe make an outing of it. Smoke some ribs for before and billiards after. So grateful that whiny ass FBI Agent is not in this one. Liberal heads are already exploding that there are no female leads in this movie.

Do you girls all go to the powder room at the same time?


(Duckin' and runnin'. I just couldn't help myself and the gibe is meant in fun.)

[Casual Friday]

According to a FB friend I went to high school with who works in Hollywood, it doesn't disappoint. It's different than the first but if you liked the first you should enjoy the second.

[Hambo]

Do you girls all go to the powder room at the same time?

Don't judge him.

[RoyGBiv]

I'm looking forward to seeing this. I really enjoyed the action in the original film, but the tense tone and the complex dynamics were the most compelling factors for me, making it very memorable. Some were annoyed by Emily Blunt's character, but I enjoyed witnessing her struggling through personal dilemmas as she discovered just how deep and misleading things are. Existential crisis writ large.

Oh, and I doubt that so-called 'liberals' will dislike this film any more or less for the presence or absence of female leads. :)
Really enjoyed the first one... thought the Blunt story line was great... interesting perspective.
Is it necessary to the sequel? No.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/12/19/sicario-2-trailer-no-emily-blunt-almost-no-women-at-all/#20311f101ffb
https://media1.tenor.com/images/6b8e6c270150eb9f6a8b3e8afa2586e6/tenor.gif?itemid=5514584

<facepalm>

[JM Campbell]

Do you girls all go to the powder room at the same time?


(Duckin' and runnin'. I just couldn't help myself and the gibe is meant in fun.)

Powder rooms are dangerous places man.

[emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blues]

Powder rooms are dangerous places man.

[emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You bet! Wouldn't catch me in one, that's for sure.

Pretty sure it was a man that coined the term "keep your powder dry!". ;)

[UNK]

Ft Niagra Powder Room

[holmes168]

No female leads is completely unacceptable. Therefore- I will not go this movie in the theaters.....more than twice.

People need to grow up.

[UNK]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/12/19/sicario-2-trailer-no-emily-blunt-almost-no-women-at-all/#20311f101ffb


26798 26799

He deserves the kydex tactical toothbrush holder award. Most telling is that there is no allowance for comments after the article

[Gadfly]

SIDE RANT:
The FBI would not be the ones doing what she was doing in the movie. According to one of my PAO buddies at HQ, the producers were told that HSI is the agency they would need to show, but the producers said "who the hell has heard of HSI, people can relate to the FBI?"

Well, if you never put us into movies, NO ONE will ever hear of us.

FBI, USMS, USSS, FAMS, BP, all get movies made about them. HSI got "Crossing Over", a straight to DVD turd staring Harrison ford, and "Human Trafficking", a lifetime movie with Mira Sorveno and Donald Sutherland. we need a better PR department. NCIS doesn't do jack, and they get a TV show with 3 spin offs!

End of Rant...

I found Emily Blunt's character rather annoying. Glad she is not back for the squeal.

[UNK]

Don't judge him.

I'm sure you have your vocabulary confused. It's doubtful he's judging. More likely projecting. :D

[blues]

I'm sure you have your vocabulary confused. It's doubtful he's judging. More likely projecting. :D

I thought I was shaming. Things are so confusing these days, it's hard to be politically correct. ;)

[scjbash]

SIDE RANT:
The FBI would not be the ones doing what she was doing in the movie. According to one of my PAO buddies at HQ, the producers were told that HSI is the agency they would need to show, but the producers said "who the hell has heard of HSI, people can relate to the FBI?"



I had to google HSI. ;)

[MVS]

I had to google HSI. ;)

Hang Seng Index. ��

[RoyGBiv]

Hang Seng Index. ��

Humane Society International. <good doggies>

[Gadfly]

(in my best Rodney Dangerfield voice)
"I don't get no respect, none I tell ya."

This is us...
https://www.ice.gov/hsi (http://www.ice.gov/hsi)
http://www.ice.gov/hsi

#ShittyMarketing (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=ShittyMarketing)
#NoOneLovesUs (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NoOneLovesUs)

[HCM]

SIDE RANT:
The FBI would not be the ones doing what she was doing in the movie. According to one of my PAO buddies at HQ, the producers were told that HSI is the agency they would need to show, but the producers said "who the hell has heard of HSI, people can relate to the FBI?"

Well, if you never put us into movies, NO ONE will ever hear of us.

FBI, USMS, USSS, FAMS, BP, all get movies made about them. HSI got "Crossing Over", a straight to DVD turd staring Harrison ford, and "Human Trafficking", a lifetime movie with Mira Sorveno and Donald Sutherland. we need a better PR department. NCIS doesn't do jack, and they get a TV show with 3 spin offs!

End of Rant...

I found Emily Blunt's character rather annoying. Glad she is not back for the squeal.

Regardless of the Emily Blunt character - keep in mind there was nothing remotely realistic about Sicario. It's the Hollywood fantasy version of the Border. It is literally a case of that's not the ways any of this works.

Jeffery Donovan's character is my spirit animal and all but the plot is preposterous.

Enjoy the action but don't be one of those retards posting about how this movie is "realistic."

PS - Gadfly - y'all also had Jessica Alba in Machete.

[HCM]

(in my best Rodney Dangerfield voice)
"I don't get no respect, none I tell ya."

This is us...
https://www.ice.gov/hsi (http://www.ice.gov/hsi)
http://www.ice.gov/hsi

#ShittyMarketing (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=ShittyMarketing)
#NoOneLovesUs (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NoOneLovesUs)

HIS - even autocorrect gives you no respect !

[23JAZ]

I had to google HSI. ;)

Why would they put the Health and Safety Institute in this type of movie?

[Grey]

Really looking forward to this, I loved the first movie. This looks exactly like what I want to see!

[blues]

Regardless of the Emily Blunt character - keep in mind there was nothing remotely realistic about Sicario. It's the Hollywood fantasy version of the Border. It is literally a case of that's not the ways any of this works.

Jeffery Donovan's character is my spirit animal and all but the plot is preposterous.

Enjoy the action but don't be one of those retards posting about how this movie is "realistic."

PS - Gadfly - y'all also had Jessica Alba in Machete.

Things are looking up.

[GardoneVT]

I think Emily Blount’s character was genious,actually.One of the problems of Hollywood moviemaking is creating a screenplay that’s technically accurate,entertaining ,and accessible to Joe Ordinary.

Most of the guys here are probably LE,Military,or former members of those professions. So the subject matter of Sicario isnt new news here. Hell some guys here lived it .

It is new news for the 90% of moviegoers who know nothing of LE, weapons, or cartel activities. Blounts character thus serves as a way for the movie to explain itself to the clueless audience .

[Gadfly]

Never said the action was real... Just that FBI would not dirty their hands doing alien work or ANY border work.

And yes, after 19+ years, I know that's not how any of that works.

Side Note:
Did a case in El Paso. Spent about 3-4 months there over a years time. Mostly out in Fabens and Clint. In downtown El Paso, by the bridge, hearing gunfire from across the river was way more common than I expected. And one morning, hearing the low Boom. The local Agents just shrugged and said "oh, Grenades", and went back to eating their lunch.

One morning I open my Hotel blinds, and I see about a dozen+ pillars of black smoke on the Juarez side. I assume, with as cold as it was, folks had space heater accidents. Upon meeting with my CI, he tells me the local city was told to pay "the Quaota" to Sinaloa for the buses. 10% tax to the cartel for protection. The city did not pay. So that morning, buses were stopped, drivers shot, and buses burned. I did not see more black smoke, so I assume the city paid the Quota. Its a different world across that thin river. Reporters don't report it, because the get shot if they do.

[RJ]

Humane Society International. <good doggies>

Geez I read Hardware Software Integration...:cool:

[blues]

Geez I read Hardware Software Integration...:cool:

It actually means Hot Shit Investigations (and Investigators)


When my former agency was being folded into ICE...I thought it must stand for "I Can't Even..."

[Gadfly]

INS stood for "I'm Not Sure"

Them: Can you deport this guy from Senegal? he had valid entry, but his asylum claim had been on hold for 8 years, and the A file is lost.
Me: Im Not Sure. For every law, there is a waiver, for every waiver, there is another waiver. So regardless of what the law says, I'M NOT SURE.

DEA was "Doesn't Ever Arrest"
The would drag a case out for years...

[TC215]

DEA was "Doesn't Ever Arrest"
The would drag a case out for years...

Gotta get that OCDETF overtime for the TFO's.

[blues]

INS stood for "I'm Not Sure"

Them: Can you deport this guy from Senegal? he had valid entry, but his asylum claim had been on hold for 8 years, and the A file is lost.
Me: Im Not Sure. For every law, there is a waiver, for every waiver, there is another waiver. So regardless of what the law says, I'M NOT SURE.

DEA was "Doesn't Ever Arrest"
The would drag a case out for years...

For us it was Don't Expect Anything, Don't Even Ask

FBI: Forever Bothering Italians, Fan Belt Inspectors, Fumbling, Bumbling Idiots... (with apologies in advance to my friends here)

[Gadfly]

CBP = Couldn’t Be Police.
(I kid, I kid... my daughter is CBP)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[LOKNLOD]

SIDE RANT:
The FBI would not be the ones doing what she was doing in the movie. According to one of my PAO buddies at HQ, the producers were told that HSI is the agency they would need to show, but the producers said "who the hell has heard of HSI, people can relate to the FBI?"

Well, if you never put us into movies, NO ONE will ever hear of us.

FBI, USMS, USSS, FAMS, BP, all get movies made about them. HSI got "Crossing Over", a straight to DVD turd staring Harrison ford, and "Human Trafficking", a lifetime movie with Mira Sorveno and Donald Sutherland. we need a better PR department. NCIS doesn't do jack, and they get a TV show with 3 spin offs!

End of Rant...

I found Emily Blunt's character rather annoying. Glad she is not back for the squeal.

The new show “The Crossing” features HSI as the government agents dealing with an arrival of strangers on a random beach.

[blues]

The new show “The Crossing” features HSI as the government agents dealing with an arrival of strangers on a random beach.


Refugees from a war-torn country 180 years in the future start showing up in the present to seek asylum in an American town.

There may still be an HSI then...but it'll be close. It took 214 years before the gov't in its infinite wisdom decided that U.S. Customs had a long enough run, and with the stroke of a pen...poof!

[TGS]

SIDE RANT:
The FBI would not be the ones doing what she was doing in the movie. According to one of my PAO buddies at HQ, the producers were told that HSI is the agency they would need to show, but the producers said "who the hell has heard of HSI, people can relate to the FBI?"

Well, if you never put us into movies, NO ONE will ever hear of us.

Bitch, please. We all know if they wanted to be accurate she would have been a Lake Arthur reserve. :cool: (too soon?)


FBI, USMS, USSS, FAMS, BP, all get movies made about them. HSI got "Crossing Over", a straight to DVD turd staring Harrison ford, and "Human Trafficking", a lifetime movie with Mira Sorveno and Donald Sutherland. we need a better PR department. NCIS doesn't do jack, and they get a TV show with 3 spin offs!

End of Rant...


At least you guys don't die in pretty much every movie like DSS.....and largely with no actual mention.

Static security at a dinner venue? All killed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZKzOkzSM4

Motorcade? All killed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJlmYy-mAZY

Even as a cunning evil villain, traitor? Killed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3puvEO326yA

Try to detain a ground branch operative? At least not killed, but still losing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og3cr0qR3sk

[Greg]

The pearl clutching Forbes writer would probably fit in better at Vox.

Read this steaming pile if you need a good laugh > https://www.vox.com/mischiefs-of-faction/2018/6/1/17406942/woke-droid

#wokeasfuck (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=wokeasfuck)

[LOKNLOD]

There may still be an HSI then...but it'll be close. It took 214 years before the gov't in its infinite wisdom decided that U.S. Customs had a long enough run, and with the stroke of a pen...poof!

The agents are in the part set in the present, and clearly the problems in the future are due to the lack of proper customs enforcement finally bringing the world to its knees.

[blues]

The agents are in the part set in the present, and clearly the problems in the future are due to the lack of proper customs enforcement finally bringing the world to its knees.

I tried to 'splain that to Bush 43 but whaddya gonna do...?

[HCM]

The agents are in the part set in the present, and clearly the problems in the future are due to the lack of proper customs enforcement finally bringing the world to its knees.

Lumber tarriff fraud and counterfeit trademark mecrchadise are serious matters....

[TDA]

Damn, I’m way too slow to be funny. Carry on, nothing to see here...

[Gadfly]

Lumber tarriff fraud and counterfeit trademark mecrchadise are serious matters....

Don’t forget our serious national security case of the mislabeled Honey. Chinese Honey, sent to Russian and labeled as Russian Honey... because Russia pays less in Tariff.

So your Honey Nut Cheerios were made with real Honey, that had a fake label.

THAT was a real Customs case our office worked. Mighty fine fine police work. Just like Dirty Harry. [emoji41]

Customs, keeping counterfeit Golf clubs and counterfeit Rubic’s Cubes off the shelves of Target and WalMart for 214 years.

(Ducks for cover as a barrage of INS insults are surely inbound [emoji6])

[HCM]

Never said the action was real... Just that FBI would not dirty their hands doing alien work or ANY border work.

And yes, after 19+ years, I know that's not how any of that works

That was “pour encouraget les autres”

You and I both know this is one of the most realistic Immigration Enforcement scenes ever filmed:


http://youtu.be/NfqLYfsVSy8





Side Note:
Did a case in El Paso. Spent about 3-4 months there over a years time. Mostly out in Fabens and Clint. In downtown El Paso, by the bridge, hearing gunfire from across the river was way more common than I expected. And one morning, hearing the low Boom. The local Agents just shrugged and said "oh, Grenades", and went back to eating their lunch.

One morning I open my Hotel blinds, and I see about a dozen+ pillars of black smoke on the Juarez side. I assume, with as cold as it was, folks had space heater accidents. Upon meeting with my CI, he tells me the local city was told to pay "the Quaota" to Sinaloa for the buses. 10% tax to the cartel for protection. The city did not pay. So that morning, buses were stopped, drivers shot, and buses burned. I did not see more black smoke, so I assume the city paid the Quota. Its a different world across that thin river. Reporters don't report it, because the get shot if they do.

Was in Laredo at one of the bridges a few years back, around the time they were shooting RPGs at the U.S. Consulate, and saw a GOM helicopter providing fire support to the federal police via belt fed about a mile or so inside Mexico. A Very different world.

Reporters have been replaced in large part by anonymous bloggers and social media due to security concerns.

[Gadfly]

You and I both know this is one of the most realistic Immigration Enforcement scenes ever filmed:


Even though that was filmed 30 years ago, I have that same conversation several times a week. 100% real. They shovel the lies, we sift through the bullshit. At least the media was not shitting on us daily back then. They did not love us, but they did not blatantly shit on us.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[blues]

Lumber tarriff fraud and counterfeit trademark mecrchadise are serious matters....

I just got wood...

(HCM, turn spellcheck back on. ;))

Full Disclosure: I only worked narcotics, money laundering and arms smuggling. We used to lower our eyes out of respect for the dead when we walked past the fraud group, the poor orphaned bastards. There but for the grace of God...:p


Meanwhile, back at the Customs House:


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0WLFx2UaJxI/S7FO68eLuFI/AAAAAAAAAWQ/EF4gGZ4KKwo/s1600/bartleby.jpg

"I'm done preparing the writ, Ebeneezer. Let's hit the street!"

[Arbninftry]

GADFLY,
I lived ElPaso for almost 10 years. The border really went down hill about 2006 and just got worse. Cartels started car bombing in 2008. It got really bad when bullet holes started showing up in university apartments, UTEP, that had originated in Juarez. We live in interesting times, and just turn a blind eye.

The corruption bled over, the city government of Sunland Park, NM got arrested for for prostitutes, and being on Cartel payrolls. Fun times

[blues]

(Ducks for cover as a barrage of INS insults are surely inbound [emoji6])


I got nothin'. Best I can come up with is that I retired rather than work Immigration cases. ;)

[HCM]

I just got wood...

(HCM, turn spellcheck back on. ;))

Full Disclosure: I only worked narcotics, money laundering and arms smuggling. We used to lower our eyes out of respect for the dead when we walked past the fraud group, the poor orphaned bastards. There but for the grace of God...:p


Meanwhile, back at the Customs House:


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0WLFx2UaJxI/S7FO68eLuFI/AAAAAAAAAWQ/EF4gGZ4KKwo/s1600/bartleby.jpg

"I'm done preparing the writ, Ebeneezer. Let's hit the street!"

Is that Bartleby the Scrivener ?

[blues]

Is that Bartleby the Scrivener ?

Yep. I thought he'd be the perfect example of a federal agent...after all, who hasn't had to say "I'd rather not" a time or two? ;)

[SAWBONES]

Warning: Literary Pedantry ahead!


...or more precisely, "I prefer not" (Bartleby's oft-repeated assertion).

And for accuracy's sake, it appears there's a confusion of a character of Dickens with one of Melville.

:cool:

(Sorry, I can't help it.)

[blues]

Warning: Literary Pedantry ahead!


...or more precisely, "I prefer not" (Bartleby's oft-repeated assertion).

And for accuracy's sake, it appears there's a confusion of a character of Dickens with one of Melville.

:cool:

(Sorry, I can't help it.)

Hey, smartypants, I've read the above referenced tales and what you perceive as errata and accidental (negligent?) discharges...were, in fact purely intentional. (Though I may have forgotten in the intervening years that it was "I prefer not to" as opposed to "I'd rather not")

Otherwise, there was no confusion and no dusty old tomes were injured in the process of publishing that post. I liked the name Ebeneezer for the role.

Now, get back to limb removal, would ya fer the love of Pete?

BTW, did you know that Melville worked for Customs? It all comes around in a big circle. And don't expect any Christmas presents or a day off this year either.

The effrontery! :p

[Gadfly]

Nathaniel Hawthorne was also a customs officer in Salem, MA.

https://www.nps.gov/sama/learn/historyculture/customhouse.htm



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blues]

Nathaniel Hawthorne was also a customs officer in Salem, MA.

https://www.nps.gov/sama/learn/historyculture/customhouse.htm



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think Edgar Allan Poe either worked for Customs at one time or attempted to and was unable to secure the position. Memory fails me.

[RoyGBiv]

Nathaniel Hawthorne was also a customs officer in Salem, MA.

https://www.nps.gov/sama/learn/historyculture/customhouse.htm

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
More way off topic.... since we already are...
Gadfly ... What's the logic behind charging the cost of Customs inspections to the cost of the shipment being inspected, rather than charging every shipment a small fee to cover whatever inspections CPB deems necessary? Why not just bump MPF up enough to cover the cost for all inspections?

I woulnd't mind paying an extra 0.25% on everything to improve security and avoid paying thousands (rare, but happens) when a full container gets inspected.

Maybe a hybrid system.... If a shipment triggers some specific flags, charge the shipment for the inspection. If the inspection is random, the cost would be covered by the pooled fees... ??

/tangent

[HCM]

Yep. I thought he'd be the perfect example of a federal agent...after all, who hasn't had to say "I'd rather not" a time or two? ;)

Bartlesby the Scrivener was written by Herman Melville, around the time he was a Customs Inspector in the port of New York - and thus the circle is complete

[SAWBONES]

Hey, smartypants, I've read the above referenced tales and what you perceive as errata and accidental (negligent?) discharges...were, in fact purely intentional. (Though I may have forgotten in the intervening years that it was "I prefer not to" as opposed to "I'd rather not")

Otherwise, there was no confusion and no dusty old tomes were injured in the process of publishing that post. I liked the name Ebeneezer for the role.

Now, get back to limb removal, would ya fer the love of Pete?

BTW, did you know that Melville worked for Customs? It all comes around in a big circle. And don't expect any Christmas presents or a day off this year either.

The effrontery! :p


Love it!:cool:

[Gadfly]

More way off topic.... since we already are...
Gadfly ... What's the logic behind charging the cost of Customs inspections to the cost of the shipment being inspected, rather than charging every shipment a small fee to cover whatever inspections CPB deems necessary? Why not just bump MPF up enough to cover the cost for all inspections?

I woulnd't mind paying an extra 0.25% on everything to improve security and avoid paying thousands (rare, but happens) when a full container gets inspected.

Maybe a hybrid system.... If a shipment triggers some specific flags, charge the shipment for the inspection. If the inspection is random, the cost would be covered by the pooled fees... ??

/tangent

I have ZERO clue, as I am not a customs type guy. I was detailed to be an Immigration inspector for a while, and all my investigative work has been immigration based with a 5 year side trip to a DEA task force type group. I know nothing about customs duties (thankfully).

[HCM]

I have ZERO clue, as I am not a customs type guy. I was detailed to be an Immigration inspector for a while, and all my investigative work has been immigration based with a 5 year side trip to a DEA task force type group. I know nothing about customs duties (thankfully).

I remember one thing from customs cross training - one armed persons are exempt from the prohibition on importing switchblade knives.

[blues]

I remember one thing from customs cross training - one armed persons are exempt from the prohibition on importing switchblade knives.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/b/bd/Fugitive.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141128211928

"I know a retired Customs special agent who was the subject of an internal affairs investigation based on an allegation by an inspector that he was facilitating their import by a French knife maker named Fred Perrin. Ain't that a doozy?"




(Actually it was an evil balisong...but under the same statutes.)

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Back to THE American Literature thread swing...

I seem to remember Melville as a character in Joseph Conrad’s (Heart of Darkness), “The Secret Sharer.” I think he was in the role of agent/harbor master, possibly?


civiliandefender.com

[blues]

Back to THE American Literature thread swing...

I seem to remember Melville as a character in Joseph Conrad’s (Heart of Darkness), “The Secret Sharer.” I think he was in the role of agent/harbor master, possibly?


civiliandefender.com

Too many years since I read either of those books. I wouldn't doubt it.

[JHC]

27268

[JHC]

27269

[blues]

What I want to know is, why isn't it "dia del soldado"?

Too much Español? Or is it Spanglish?

[RoyGBiv]

I hope this movie is as good as the trailer.

Looking forward to it.

[TheNewbie]

What I want to know is, why isn't it "dia del soldado"?

Too much Español? Or is it Spanglish?

A week ago we were dealing with a drunk El Salvadorian guy. He was walking around streets because his friend "was crazy". I would talk to him in Spanish and he would respond in drunk broken Spanglish. It was interesting.

[blues]

A week ago we were dealing with a drunk El Salvadorian guy. He was walking around streets because his friend "was crazy". I would talk to him in Spanish and he would respond in drunk broken Spanglish. It was interesting.

Been in similar situations in Miami.

[Stephanie B]

27269

According to the FAA, that’s not a valid N number. Arrest the pilot!


Damn the iPhone Typos!

[NPV]

Just a curious thought but why use a fake N number on a fake USG/mil A/C

[TheNewbie]

Been in similar situations in Miami.

Cuban Spanglish ?

[blues]

Cuban Spanglish ?

Cuban, Colombian, other South American etc.

[Stephanie B]

Just a curious thought but why use a fake N number on a fake USG/mil A/C

Probably because they think that nobody’s going to bother to check it.

It’s sort of like that stupid TV show Suits, where it doesn’t occur to anyone that the New York state attorney registry is a public record and is available online (and it gives the law school).

[NPV]

Probably because they think that nobody’s going to bother to check it.

It’s sort of like that stupid TV show Suits, where it doesn’t occur to anyone that the New York state attorney registry is a public record and is available online.

Very true. I just meant USG/mil don't use N numbers so why decide to use them on this A/C. I could understand it if it was a real N number on a commericial S-70i but this just confuses me.

[GardoneVT]

Just a curious thought but why use a fake N number on a fake USG/mil A/C

“Your American eyes won’t understand. And you will doubt everything we do.But you will learn....”

[NPV]

“Your American eyes won’t understand. And you will doubt everything we do.But you will learn....”

Close but not exact :p

[blues]

Very true. I just meant USG/mil don't use N numbers so why decide to use them on this A/C. I could understand it if it was a real N number on a commericial S-70i but this just confuses me.

Best thing I ever saw regarding aircraft, tail numbers and switcheroos: Back in the late 80's I was training at a base in AZ co-located with a three letter outfit that ran an airfield adjacent to our facility and which we were warned not to trespass onto, under penalty of being shot.

One day we saw a "commercial" airliner that went into a hangar there...it went in marked Pan Am and came out a day or two later marked TWA.
(This was around the time that we were running a lot of ops in Central America.) It was truly impressive work.

Richard Marcinko refers to some of the goings on there, (during the time I was on site), in at least one of his books.

[NPV]

Best thing I ever saw regarding aircraft, tail numbers and switcheroos: Back in the late 80's I was training at a base in AZ co-located with a three letter outfit that ran an airfield adjacent to our facility and which we were warned not to trespass onto, under penalty of being shot.

One day we saw a "commercial" airliner that went into a hangar there...it went in marked Pan Am and came out a day or two later marked TWA.
(This was around the time that we were running a lot of ops in Central America.) It was truly impressive work.

Richard Marcinko refers to some of the goings on there, (during the time I was on site), in at least one of his books.

Now that's badass and makes me even prouder to be an American

[Sero Sed Serio]

Best thing I ever saw regarding aircraft, tail numbers and switcheroos: Back in the late 80's I was training at a base in AZ co-located with a three letter outfit that ran an airfield adjacent to our facility and which we were warned not to trespass onto, under penalty of being shot.

One day we saw a "commercial" airliner that went into a hangar there...it went in marked Pan Am and came out a day or two later marked TWA.
(This was around the time that we were running a lot of ops in Central America.) It was truly impressive work.

Richard Marcinko refers to some of the goings on there, (during the time I was on site), in at least one of his books.

I get to wander all over AZ for work, and I'm pretty sure I know where this facility is (seen references to the area in both fiction and non-fiction books by people who did spooky stuff for a living). If you know to keep your eyes peeled in that area, you can see a lot of interesting stuff--HALO jump formations that seem to appear out of nowhere, random civilian-looking helicopters behaving strangely, Blackhawks doing insertions, etc. It both makes me feel good that there are rough men, preparing to do violence on our behalf, and livens up an otherwise boring drive across the desert...

[blues]

I get to wander all over AZ for work, and I'm pretty sure I know where this facility is (seen references to the area in both fiction and non-fiction books by people who did spooky stuff for a living). If you know to keep your eyes peeled in that area, you can see a lot of interesting stuff--HALO jump formations that seem to appear out of nowhere, random civilian-looking helicopters behaving strangely, Blackhawks doing insertions, etc. It both makes me feel good that there are rough men, preparing to do violence on our behalf, and livens up an otherwise boring drive across the desert...

When we first arrived, during our briefing, we were told to ignore any loud thumps on the roofs of our dormitories and not go out and challenge anyone seen scuttling down as they may be SEALS performing HALO jumps.

In fact, during my time there, one unfortunate SEAL had a chute failure and deployed his auxiliary without having jettisoned the main chute, resulting in a streamer and leading to his death.

When I went to report what I had seen to the base brass, I was told it was a wind dummy. I got a little P.O.'d and told him that I had TS clearance and knew the difference between a wind dummy and a man waving his arms as he fell to his death.

ETA: I did my only sky diving at that base...given the course by the aforementioned three letter agency. Jumped from a Cessna 152 (as I recall) at 3000' AGL. (No tandem jumps, just ripcord.)

Funny thing, one of the other guys from my outfit who jumped a little later on, happened to land astraddle the only fence line in the general area. Ouch!
(He lived. His voice was a little higher, but he lived to take a great deal of abuse for years afterward.)

I also got to take off and fly a 152 while there...but never attempted a landing. I left that to those who knew what they were doing. :cool:

I spent a lot of time on Blackhawks during my career in South FL, occasionally being transported while on SRT ops out in the Everglades or west coast of FL...and also frequently when I worked out of our air wing / air smuggling group at Homestead AFB and worked alongside Bahamian officers on patrols.

[60Driver]

Very true. I just meant USG/mil don't use N numbers so why decide to use them on this A/C. I could understand it if it was a real N number on a commericial S-70i but this just confuses me.

Perhaps that is the point, though I doubt the movie guys were that sophisticated.

As the Navy Hawk guy, for the record those are not Blackhawks but MH-60S Knighthawks and in the ramp scene incorrectly CGIed. ALQ-144 (should be mounted down not up on Sierra). Bravo and Romeo mount the FLIR/Laser as CGIed.

Points for using Navy Hawks to add to the undeclared war theme. Why...pointless law fact for the day, because Technically 18 USC 1835 Posse Comitatus "does not explicitly mention the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps" Obviously we adhere to it by DOD and Navy Regulation.

[Stephanie B]

I made a few training jumps, decades ago. It didn’t take me very long to satisfy my need to (a) jump out of an airplane; (b) fall through the air; and (c) survive the process.

It seemed to me that skydiving was a matter of repeating those steps until you either gave up the sport, or failed at the last step.

Not to mention that at least half of the guys at that jump zone seemed to be certifiable. Maybe they were putting on a show for the newbie (me). But what they did was call up a question in my mind of whether or not I really wanted to associate with those lunatics.

[NPV]

Perhaps that is the point, though I doubt the movie guys were that sophisticated.

As the Navy Hawk guy, for the record those are not Blackhawks but MH-60S Knighthawks and in the ramp scene incorrectly CGIed. ALQ-144 (should be mounted down not up on Sierra). Bravo and Romeo mount the FLIR/Laser as CGIed.

Points for using Navy Hawks to add to the undeclared war theme. Why...pointless law fact for the day, because Technically 18 USC 1835 Posse Comitatus "does not explicitly mention the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps" Obviously we adhere to it by DOD and Navy Regulation.

Gee I wonder where you got the name 60Driver lol, I haven't seen the scene you're referring yet.

And as a matter of coincidence the picture of the month in the Sikorsky calendar is an MH-60S.

[Gary1911A1]

27269

Does the actor Jeffrey Donovan have his flash suppressor resting on the ground?

[JHC]

Does the actor Jeffrey Donovan have his flash suppressor resting on the ground?

On the tarmac, yes. Pretty common practice is it not? Well advised or not, I can't really say from experience.

Notable IMO, that team isn't full of TV style archetypes that look all of 24 years old. ;)

[Mark D]

Does the actor Jeffrey Donovan have his flash suppressor resting on the ground?

I always tried to keep my rifle muzzle off the deck, until Panone told me it wasn't a big deal. In fact, his procedure for clearing a brass-over-bolt malfunction requires putting the muzzle on the ground. He explained that you could plug the barrel full of dirt, almost to the gas block, without it causing a problem.

[GyroF-16]

He explained that you could plug the barrel full of dirt, almost to the gas block, without it causing a problem.

Wow. That just sounds scary.

[Mark D]

Wow. That just sounds scary.

Right? But the dude knows far more about gunfighting than I ever will, so I'll take his word for it.

[JHC]

I always tried to keep my rifle muzzle off the deck, until Panone told me it wasn't a big deal. In fact, his procedure for clearing a brass-over-bolt malfunction requires putting the muzzle on the ground. He explained that you could plug the barrel full of dirt, almost to the gas block, without it causing a problem.

Ah, I forgot I've watched that Noner video over and over.

[23JAZ]

On the tarmac, yes. Pretty common practice is it not? Well advised or not, I can't really say from experience.

Notable IMO, that team isn't full of TV style archetypes that look all of 24 years old. ;)

Pointing at the ground is better then the actor next to him that is pointing his rifle at his teammate's leg!

[HCM]

Y’all are getting spun up about minutia with regard to the sequel when none of y’all even understand what SICARIO was actually about - Emily Blunt’s character’s secret Love for Dreamy Steve.

That’s right, SICARIO was actually a Romance. ;-)


http://youtu.be/OXK48e0JmDY

[UNK]

Regardless of the Emily Blunt character - keep in mind there was nothing remotely realistic about Sicario. It's the Hollywood fantasy version of the Border. It is literally a case of that's not the ways any of this works.


Y’all are getting spun up about minutia with regard to the sequel when none of y’all even understand what SICARIO was actually about - Emily Blunt’s character’s secret Love for Dreamy Steve.

That’s right, SICARIO was actually a Romance. ;-)

I will not let HCM ruin this for me
I will not let HCM ruin this for me
I will not let HCM ruin this for me.....:D

[blues]

Y’all are getting spun up about minutia with regard to the sequel when none of y’all even understand what SICARIO was actually about - Emily Blunt’s character’s secret Love for Dreamy Steve.

That’s right, SICARIO was actually a Romance. ;-)

I will not let HCM ruin this for me
I will not let HCM ruin this for me
I will not let HCM ruin this for me.....:D

You didn't know that HCM secretly stood for Hot Chick Movie.

Now you know.

Deal with it.

;)

[JHC]

Y’all are getting spun up about minutia with regard to the sequel when none of y’all even understand what SICARIO was actually about - Emily Blunt’s character’s secret Love for Dreamy Steve.

That’s right, SICARIO was actually a Romance. ;-)


http://youtu.be/OXK48e0JmDY

BRILLIANT!

[Wayne Dobbs]

BRILLIANT!

BCGs do NOT equal Dreamy.

[Josh Runkle]

This thread is like talking about the movie Armageddon and then reading 100 pages about why the oil rig scenes weren’t legit and how the premise was unrealistic and the chick who was gonna possibly lose her dad and lover was too emotional.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Josh Runkle]

...it’s like listening to my father-in-law during a movie tell me how the car is just a prop vehicle, and I’m like, “Well, we’re watching Transformers, so, yeah, since it can turn into a giant robot it’s probably either a prop or CGI.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RoyGBiv]

...it’s like listening to my father-in-law during a movie tell me how the car is just a prop vehicle, and I’m like, “Well, we’re watching Transformers, so, yeah, since it can turn into a giant robot it’s probably either a prop or CGI.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You know he's f-ing with you because it's his job as father in law to do so... ?
He's waited his entire adult life to give to you what his FIL gave to him.
Every time you reply with logic he chuckles inside, then goes home and tells the wife and they LOL together.
You'll do the same some day... It's part of the circle of life.

[mtnbkr]

BCGs do NOT equal Dreamy.

I dunno, I find bolt carrier groups pretty dreamy, but I suspect that's a side effect of being a gun nerd.

Chris

[SeriousStudent]

BCG = Birth Control Glasses. AKA, military issue spectacles.

For the other gender, they are known as RPG's, or Rape Prevention Glasses.

Please do not shoot the messenger.

[mtnbkr]

BCG = Birth Control Glasses. AKA, military issue spectacles.

For the other gender, they are known as RPG's, or Rape Prevention Glasses.

Please do not shoot the messenger.


http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/623/835/bd7.png

Chris

[HCM]

BCGs do NOT equal Dreamy.

Well, she is always stealing looks at him .....

[JHC]

Well, she is always stealing looks at him .....

Just sayin' she ain't exactly glam neither.

[Duelist]

27498


Just sayin' she ain't exactly glam neither.

Guess that all depends on the day. And the makeup artist, camera, lighting, intent, etc.

[JHC]

27498



Guess that all depends on the day. And the makeup artist, camera, lighting, intent, etc.

The dickens you say! I would not have recognized the Special Agent! :D

[Gadfly]

https://youtu.be/4FyQy8ul7-U

VIDEO: 7 Things You (Probably) Didn't Know About Sicario

[Stephanie B]

BCG = Birth Control Glasses. AKA, military issue spectacles.

For the other gender, they are known as RPG's, or Rape Prevention Glasses.

Please do not shoot the messenger.

Why? That’s what I remember them being called. RMOAS:


Port visit, Haifa, Israel: It is Saturday night and officers are gathering in the wardroom to go out for a steak and some nightclubbing.

The Weapons Officer is waxing ecstatically: “Man, this is one friendly town. The women are fantastic. Anybody can get laid in this place.”

The Chief Engineer is skeptical. “Even the EWO?* I got a hundred bucks, says that you can’t get him laid, not without hiring a hooker.”

Weaps: “Hell, I’ll take that bet.” Other officers offer up bets, as well, and soon there is about $500 riding on whether the Weapons Officer can get the EWO laid.

Then the EWO, who knows nothing about this, walks into the wardroom. He is wearing plaid trousers and a striped shirt. He is the poster child for bad taste. The Weapons Officer takes one look at him and yells: “The bet is off!”

* Electronic Warfare Officer.

[RoyGBiv]

Got my tickets for Thursday night. See you there.

[HCM]

Local draft house cinema is doing double feature - Sicario and Sicario 2 back to back.

[CCT125US]

Just set the DVR for the original tonight.

[JHC]

A very timely release of a movie.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/26/cartels-no-easy-answers-border-crisis/

"Part of what’s driving the violence in northern Mexico is the breakdown of the Gulf and Los Zetas cartels. The most recent wave of violence began last April when Mexican authorities in Reynosa killed Juan Manuel Loisa Salinas, the leader of the Gulf Cartel. His death created a power vacuum, and various factions are now competing for a piece of the cross-border drug trade and other criminal enterprises.

Signs of the grisly cartel violence that was associated with Juárez back in 2010—severed heads, bodies hanging from highway overpasses—are now cropping up in border towns further east along the Rio Grande. In March, cartel gunmen dumped bags filled with dismembered body parts outside a gas station in Reynosa, where more than 500 people have been killed in the past 12 months."

[blues]

Those who enjoy the Sicario movies may also enjoy the books of Don Winslow, specifically "The Cartel" (https://www.amazon.com/Cartel-Vintage-Crime-Black-Lizard/dp/1101873744) and its predecessor, "The Power of the Dog" (https://www.amazon.com/Power-Dog-Don-Winslow/dp/1400096936/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=85WG9ZTDZEG5BHRJWQYD).

[Stephanie B]

Just set the DVR for the original tonight.

What network?

[blues]

What network?

My DirecTV guide shows FX at 8 pm and again at 10.30

[CCT125US]

FX @ 8

[Mark D]

Fox News: In Mexico, rising 'mass crime' defies security forces


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/06/27/in-mexico-rising-mass-crime-defies-security-forces.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fworld+%28Internal+-+World+Latest+-+Text%29

Form the article:

Javier Oliva, a political science professor at the National Autonomous University of Mexico, said the military is unprepared to handle "the process of social breakdown we are experiencing."

"This situation is cancerous. It is going to spread more and more with all the political and social instability that come with it," he said. "If today you have hundreds of thousands, it could become millions who think like this."

[HCM]

A very timely release of a movie.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/26/cartels-no-easy-answers-border-crisis/

"Part of what’s driving the violence in northern Mexico is the breakdown of the Gulf and Los Zetas cartels. The most recent wave of violence began last April when Mexican authorities in Reynosa killed Juan Manuel Loisa Salinas, the leader of the Gulf Cartel. His death created a power vacuum, and various factions are now competing for a piece of the cross-border drug trade and other criminal enterprises.

Signs of the grisly cartel violence that was associated with Juárez back in 2010—severed heads, bodies hanging from highway overpasses—are now cropping up in border towns further east along the Rio Grande. In March, cartel gunmen dumped bags filled with dismembered body parts outside a gas station in Reynosa, where more than 500 people have been killed in the past 12 months."

None of this is new. It’s just cycling back around. It will get crazy, settle down and get crazy again. Tamaulipas was crazy like that in 2008 -2010 then it stabilized and Juarez got crazy.

[JHC]

Sure. Just that recent events really drew eyes to that border.

[Mark D]

None of this is new. It’s just cycling back around. It will get crazy, settle down and get crazy again. Tamaulipas was crazy like that in 2008 -2010 then it stabilized and Juarez got crazy.

I agree that crime rates ebb and flow in Mexico. But don't think the latest uptick is just another part of the normal cycle. I think we're watching a slow but steady deterioration that, left unchecked, will result in a failed state.

[blues]

I agree that crime rates ebb and flow in Mexico. But don't think the latest uptick is just another part of the normal cycle. I think we're watching a slow but steady deterioration that, left unchecked, will result in a failed state.

Yep...I'm afraid ol' Méjico may not be able to pull out of the suck dragging it right down the drain. Though I truly hope it does.

And for different reasons, I fear we too may be in the inescapable grasp of a black hole. Time will tell.

[HCM]

I agree that crime rates ebb and flow in Mexico. But don't think the latest uptick is just another part of the normal cycle. I think we're watching a slow but steady deterioration that, left unchecked, will result in a failed state.

I’m not talking about “crime rates” - this is not random street crime. This is about the internal control cycle between and writhing these groups. They cycle between stability and security and instability and insecurity both within their own organizations and between organizations. Thanks to U.S. drug money the cartels are part of the political landscape in Mexico.

This Cycle has occurred in Mexico before in the 1920s. This is particularly relevant when you consider the same families who control the Gulf Cartel were running liquor and shooting it out with the Border Patrol and Texas Rangers in the 1920’s.

[JHC]

This Cycle has occurred in Mexico before in the 1920s. This is particularly relevant when you consider the same families who control the Gulf Cartel were running liquor and shooting it out with the Border Patrol and Texas Rangers in the 1920’s.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? That is amazing!

[Gun Mutt]

Those who enjoy the Sicario movies may also enjoy the books of Don Winslow, specifically "The Cartel" (https://www.amazon.com/Cartel-Vintage-Crime-Black-Lizard/dp/1101873744) and its predecessor, "The Power of the Dog" (https://www.amazon.com/Power-Dog-Don-Winslow/dp/1400096936/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=85WG9ZTDZEG5BHRJWQYD).

Don Winslow is one of my favorite authors, people are well advised to read his books no matter what movie(s) you do or do not like.

[Stephanie B]

My DirecTV guide shows FX at 8 pm and again at 10.30

Thanks. I hope they don't cut too much out of it, as I've never seen it.

There's a 1996 movie of the same title. Has anyone seen it?

[Stephanie B]

And for different reasons, I fear we too may be in the inescapable grasp of a black hole. Time will tell.

It's called "political entropy". No national structure, except maybe the Icelandic government, lasts forever.

[RoyGBiv]

Thanks. I hope they don't cut too much out of it, as I've never seen it.
If you have a subscription to FX with your current cable provider, you should be able to stream it for free at FXNow..
https://www.fxnetworks.com/movie/sicario

[blues]

Thanks. I hope they don't cut too much out of it, as I've never seen it.

There's a 1996 movie of the same title. Has anyone seen it?

I think I have. I don't remember much about it in terms of anything particularly special. I believe it was on Netflix.


Icelandic government? Throughout junior and senior high and most of my college years, my closest friend was from Iceland. He was very proud of its heritage and its many achievements.

Beautiful country as well. (Regretfully, I've never been...yet.)

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

My DirecTV guide shows FX at 8 pm and again at 10.30

What Blues said, FX on DTV is 248 @ 1900 & repeated again on 248 @ 2130, both on CST.

[TiroFijo]

Don't forget that every cent spent in good 'ol USA in drugs goes to funding the mob and the cartels and their power and influence in every aspect of life, both in Mexico and the US.

Every drug consuming american is a fundamental part of this cycle.

Think about it when you or your friends/acquaintances smoke weed, take pills, or inhale whatever the crap they want.

[blues]

^^^Your shouting is completely unnecessary and unwarranted here. Many of us have spent many years of our lives combating the mob, the cartels and the trafficking of illegal drugs.

This is not a revelation, nor is the tone appreciated.

[CCT125US]

Don't forget that every cent spent in good 'ol USA in drugs goes to funding the mob and the cartels and their power and influence in every aspect of life, both in Mexico and the US.

Every drug consuming american is a fundamental part of this cycle.

Think about it when you or your friends/acquaintances smoke weed, take pills, or inhale whatever the crap they want.

Not all weed originates south of the border.

[LittleLebowski]

Tagging.

[TiroFijo]

^^^Your shouting is completely unnecessary and unwarranted here. Many of us have spent many years of our lives combating the mob, the cartels and the trafficking of illegal drugs.

This is not a revelation, nor is the tone appreciated.

Blues, I have the highest respect for every one, anywhere, that does what is possible to combat the mob and cartels.

The "shouting" was not directed like: "gringo, is your fault". It was not my intention, and I apologize. As you well know, english is not my native language and I sometimes struggle to convey my thoughts/feelings with better manners. Hell, I am blunt in spanish too.

But sometimes it seems some people forget, of choose to not see, the evident.

Mexico is an endemically corrupt country, with lots of problems. Same, to a larger degree, many countries in Central America. But this does not erase the responsability of the other main responsible: the relatively rich, well educated country, with stronger LE and judiciary system is at the root of the problem.

I hate drugs, and I truly despise cartels. We heve them here, too. In some ways perhaps Paraguay is to Brazil what Mexico is to the US. The problem is essentially the same.

But enforcing restrictive laws on substances people (and from a comparatively much richer country) are willing to pay a great deal on money on is not easy. Some would say it is a lost case.

[TiroFijo]

Not all weed originates south of the border.

I know. In this case the money at least stays in the country :D

[Stephanie B]

My DirecTV guide shows FX at 8 pm and again at 10.30

Thanks. I had to set it for the second showing in order to avoid screwing up recording The Expanse.

[Stephanie B]

Don't forget that every cent spent in good 'ol USA in drugs goes to funding the mob and the cartels and their power and influence in every aspect of life, both in Mexico and the US.

Every drug consuming american is a fundamental part of this cycle.

Think about it when you or your friends/acquaintances smoke weed, take pills, or inhale whatever the crap they want.

I vote for full legalization. Whatever the public health effects are of legalization, I think we be better off by cutting the criminals completely out of it. Or as far as out of it as we can.

[blues]

Blues, I have the highest respect for every one, anywhere, that does what is possible to combat the mob and cartels.

The "shouting" was not directed like: "gringo, is your fault". It was not my intention, and I apologize. As you well know, english is not my native language and I sometimes struggle to convey my thoughts/feelings with better manners. Hell, I am blunt in spanish too.

But sometimes it seems some people forget, of choose to not see, the evident.

Mexico is an endemically corrupt country, with lots of problems. Same, to a larger degree, many countries in Central America. But this does not erase the responsability of the other main responsible: the relatively rich, well educated country, with stronger LE and judiciary system is at the root of the problem.

I hate drugs, and I truly despise cartels. We heve them here, too. In some ways perhaps Paraguay is to Brazil what Mexico is to the US. The problem is essentially the same.

But enforcing restrictive laws on substances people (and from a comparatively much richer country) are willing to pay a great deal on money on is not easy. Some would say it is a lost case.

Thanks for your explanation. I think your points can be made much more clearly and cogently when offered in a manner which does not invite an emotional response.

As one who has seen at firsthand, (and in a very personal way), what cartels and the mob can do, I appreciate and share your loathing of such groups...both foreign and domestic.

[Casual Friday]

27536

[Stephanie B]

27536
Yep. I don’t use drugs. I never have. But I’d be willing to bet that I could make, at most, two phone calls and score some weed.

[HCM]

^^^Your shouting is completely unnecessary and unwarranted here. Many of us have spent many years of our lives combating the mob, the cartels and the trafficking of illegal drugs.

This is not a revelation, nor is the tone appreciated.

This ^.

[HCM]

Not all weed originates south of the border.

Some originates north of the border. Southbound BC bud is big business.

[TiroFijo]

Yep. I don’t use drugs. I never have. But I’d be willing to bet that I could make, at most, two phone calls and score some weed.

Almost every Hollywood movie depicts some kind of drug "recreational" use as normal, and weed as harmless.

But they seldom show what lies behind, and sometimes they portrait traffickers in a favorable (or at least non-judgemental) way too.

No offense intended to anyone, but if I may go out on a limb I bet many in this forum have smoked/smoke weed, and in most cases the source is not their backyard.

[Casual Friday]

Yep. I don’t use drugs. I never have. But I’d be willing to bet that I could make, at most, two phone calls and score some weed.

I wouldn't have to make any phone calls to get weed, just have to walk a block down the street to the weed store. #washingtonstate (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=washingtonstate)

But I understand your point. I've tried having conversations with people about the failure of the war on drugs and about the legalization of drugs, but it's like you're recommending making kiddie porn legal or something.

[TheNewbie]

When Blues, HCM, and TiroFijo post, I am happy because I enjoy reading their stuff. I think everyone is on the same side here. We all hate the evils of the cartels and we all despise drug use.

I sometimes wonder if legalization coupled with less government welfare, what government welfare there is coming with extremely strict requirements, stiffer criminal penalties for crimes like burglary etc., and a better prison system, would be a better solution.

[Casual Friday]

Almost every Hollywood movie depicts some kind of drug "recreational" use as normal, and weed as harmless.

But they seldom show what lies behind, and sometimes they portrait traffickers in a favorable (or at least non-judgemental) way too.

No offense intended to anyone, but if I may go out on a limb I bet many in this forum have smoked/smoke weed, and in most cases the source is not their backyard.

Hollywood makes pretend movies about pretend subjects and pretend situations. I don't need them to show me the dead bodies littering the streets of Juarez or the starving Ethiopian kids or whatever. I can find that stuff on the internet for myself.

And yeah, I've hit the trees till I looked Japanese in the past.

[TheNewbie]

Blues, I have the highest respect for every one, anywhere, that does what is possible to combat the mob and cartels.

The "shouting" was not directed like: "gringo, is your fault". It was not my intention, and I apologize. As you well know, english is not my native language and I sometimes struggle to convey my thoughts/feelings with better manners. Hell, I am blunt in spanish too.

But sometimes it seems some people forget, of choose to not see, the evident.

Mexico is an endemically corrupt country, with lots of problems. Same, to a larger degree, many countries in Central America. But this does not erase the responsability of the other main responsible: the relatively rich, well educated country, with stronger LE and judiciary system is at the root of the problem.

I hate drugs, and I truly despise cartels. We heve them here, too. In some ways perhaps Paraguay is to Brazil what Mexico is to the US. The problem is essentially the same.

But enforcing restrictive laws on substances people (and from a comparatively much richer country) are willing to pay a great deal on money on is not easy. Some would say it is a lost case.

My understanding is that Paraguay is much safer than many other Latin American countries, especially Mexico. Am I wrong?

[TiroFijo]

It is. But the border towns with Brazil are rife with drug cartels violence. Mostly 'among them' and under the rug, but the corruption permeates the entire cities.

[TheNewbie]

It is. But the border towns with Brazil are rife with drug cartels violence. Mostly 'among them' and under the rug, but the corruption permeates the entire cities.

I think I have asked you before, but how are the police and military forces there? Competency and corruption wise.

If you use a firearm in self defense in your country, will you be fairly treated?

[blues]

When Blues, HCM, and TiroFijo post, I am happy because I enjoy reading their stuff. I think everyone is on the same side here. We all hate the evils of the cartels and we all despise drug use.

I sometimes wonder if legalization coupled with less government welfare, what government welfare there is coming with extremely strict requirements, stiffer criminal penalties for crimes like burglary etc., and a better prison system, would be a better solution.


https://youtu.be/BoiJRKwiC1Y

[TiroFijo]

Police and .mil are corrupt. Some more than others.

Using a gun in self defense would not be a major problem in itself. But since the judicial system is also pretty corrupt, that could be major hurdle to begin with.

[Stephanie B]

Almost every Hollywood movie depicts some kind of drug "recreational" use as normal, and weed as harmless.

But they seldom show what lies behind, and sometimes they portrait traffickers in a favorable (or at least non-judgemental) way too.

No offense intended to anyone, but if I may go out on a limb I bet many in this forum have smoked/smoke weed, and in most cases the source is not their backyard.

That is not responsive at all to my point. You want to stand on your soapbox and preach, then I request that you not use me as your sidewalk.

[Stephanie B]

IBut I understand your point. I've tried having conversations with people about the failure of the war on drugs and about the legalization of drugs, but it's like you're recommending making kiddie porn legal or something.

After 48 or so years of the War on Drugs, with essentially no progress, I respectfully would suggest that those advocating “do more of what we’ve been doing for the last five decades” may be DSM-5 diagnosable.

[TiroFijo]

I did not say: 'yo smoke weed'
You clearly stated you don't.

I just pointed out that weed is so prevalent in the US that chances are someone does/did it, with no regard to where the money really goes. Same as in the prohibition era. I don't know if Hollywood reinforces the myth of the 'harmless crime' or is merely a reflection of the attitude of the society in general, I suspect the later.

[TheNewbie]

I did not say: 'yo smoke weed'
You clearly stated you don't.

I just pointed out that weed is so prevalent in the US that chances are someone does/did it, with no regard to where the money really goes. Same as in the prohibition era. I don't know if Hollywood reinforces the myth of the 'harmless crime' or is merely a reflection of the attitude of the society in general, I suspect the later.

I think it's both. Plus most people don't want to consider how their actions truly affect others.

[JSGlock34]

Those who enjoy the Sicario movies may also enjoy the books of Don Winslow, specifically "The Cartel" (https://www.amazon.com/Cartel-Vintage-Crime-Black-Lizard/dp/1101873744) and its predecessor, "The Power of the Dog" (https://www.amazon.com/Power-Dog-Don-Winslow/dp/1400096936/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=85WG9ZTDZEG5BHRJWQYD).

I thought the "Power of the Dog" was the better of the two as "The Cartel" dragged in a few places, but anything by Winslow is usually an entertaining read. "The Cartel" is being turned into a movie by Ridley Scott, but I bet Narcos will cover this territory on Netflix well before the movie hits theaters.

[blues]

I thought the "Power of the Dog" was the better of the two as "The Cartel" dragged in a few places, but anything by Winslow is usually an entertaining read. "The Cartel" is being turned into a movie by Ridley Scott, but I bet Narcos will cover this territory on Netflix well before the movie hits theaters.

Wholeheartedly agree.

I look forward to "Narcos", especially since they've made mention of cases and agents I've worked on and with.

[GardoneVT]

After 48 or so years of the War on Drugs, with essentially no progress, I respectfully would suggest that those advocating “do more of what we’ve been doing for the last five decades” may be DSM-5 diagnosable.

I disagree- only with the aspect of the “War on Drugs” being an act of insanity. By no means does Latin America have a global monopoly on drug-related corruption. In many US cities strict drug laws represent leverage for municipal politicians seeking “seed(y) funding” for expensive election campaigns. Drug related violence also conveniently keeps an urban electorate busy blaming police and guns ,instead of questioning the integrity of their city councils and mayors.

[Josh Runkle]

I vote for full legalization. Whatever the public health effects are of legalization, I think we be better off by cutting the criminals completely out of it. Or as far as out of it as we can.

Why trade a set of criminals in another country for a set in Washington?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[critter]

I vote for full legalization. Whatever the public health effects are of legalization, I think we be better off by cutting the criminals completely out of it. Or as far as out of it as we can.

Same here. Mostly from a libertarian position, but also for taking the criminality and profit out of the distribution loop and seeing what happens. It would probably be similar to alcohol use. There are people who legally drink and turn violent, become alcoholics, etc. Most don't have such tendencies. I don't recall anyone ever smoking a joint and starting a fight. I think the worst would be the loud whining after someone snatched the Doritos bag out of their hands.

[TC215]

I’ve said this before on here, but the people that think legalization will “cut the criminals out of it” or whatever don’t know much about the drug trade.

[Casual Friday]

I’ve said this before on here, but the people that think legalization will “cut the criminals out of it” or whatever don’t know much about the drug trade.

I don't know a lot about the drug trade, but I know what we've been doing since before I was born has never worked from day 1.

[TC215]

I don't know a lot about the drug trade, but I know what we've been doing since before I was born has never worked from day 1.

Why, because you read it on the internet?

The drug of choice in my area has been crack cocaine since the late 80’s. People come from all over the country to my area to sell crack, because we have so many addicts and there’s so much money to be made. Five years ago, I started a case with a couple federal agencies that has turned into one of the largest crack conspiracy cases in the southeast. We have put a large number of upper-level crack and cocaine dealers in federal prison, many of whom got 20+ year sentences, stretching from New York to California and into Mexico. It has made a huge impact locally, and crack cocaine is no longer our biggest problem.

I will admit that it’s a never-ending cycle, but that does not mean there are not victories. If I knew a better way, I would try it. But I do know legalization is not the better way.

[HCM]

https://youtu.be/BoiJRKwiC1Y

This is nothing new. Down south they would call it a “Zona de tolerancia.”

[blues]

This is nothing new. Down south they would call it a “Zona de tolerancia.”

There's one or more of those in every city I've ever lived and worked in...north, south or west.

Hell, you used to be able to buy the best weed in my old neighborhood in NYC down the block from the local precinct.

[Casual Friday]

Why, because you read it on the internet?

The drug of choice in my area has been crack cocaine since the late 80’s. People come from all over the country to my area to sell crack, because we have so many addicts and there’s so much money to be made. Five years ago, I started a case with a couple federal agencies that has turned into one of the largest crack conspiracy cases in the southeast. We have put a large number of upper-level crack and cocaine dealers in federal prison, many of whom got 20+ year sentences, stretching from New York to California and into Mexico. It has made a huge impact locally, and crack cocaine is no longer our biggest problem.

I will admit that it’s a never-ending cycle, but that does not mean there are not victories. If I knew a better way, I would try it. But I do know legalization is not the better way.

I'm glad things improved in your little corner of the country for a brief period of time, but I'd be willing to guess that as soon as crack was no longer numbero uno, there was another drug right there to take it's place. Estimates are over $1 trillion dollars has been spent on the war on drugs and if all you can produce as victories are what you've described I'd say we haven't been victorious. What was the objective of the war on drugs? To keep people from using drugs? If it was then it has failed big time.

[JAD]

The argument that x effort is not going to eliminate a problem is only effective if you have a compelling argument for y effort.

[HCM]

I'm glad things improved in your little corner of the country for a brief period of time, but I'd be willing to guess that as soon as crack was no longer numbero uno, there was another drug right there to take it's place. Estimates are over $1 trillion dollars has been spent on the war on drugs and if all you can produce as victories are what you've described I'd say we haven't been victorious. What was the objective of the war on drugs? To keep people from using drugs? If it was then it has failed big time.

Mao waged an effective war on drugs. He eliminated the demand by executing the users. Given current events on the border we don’t have the stomach for that sort of thing but that is what it would take to truly “win.”

[Drang]

I sure do seem to be putting a lot of threads on "ignore" lately...

[Bigghoss]

So yeah. Looks like it's gonna be a good movie...

[CCT125US]

https://youtu.be/BoiJRKwiC1Y

Wife and I tried to like that show. Should have given it a few more episodes.

[TC215]

I'm glad things improved in your little corner of the country for a brief period of time, but I'd be willing to guess that as soon as crack was no longer numbero uno, there was another drug right there to take it's place. Estimates are over $1 trillion dollars has been spent on the war on drugs and if all you can produce as victories are what you've described I'd say we haven't been victorious. What was the objective of the war on drugs? To keep people from using drugs? If it was then it has failed big time.

Obviously another drug will rise to the top. In our case it has been crystal meth.

I’ve always thought the term “war on drugs” was a misnomer. Wars are, generally, won or lost with clear winners and losers. The “war on drugs” was never going to be anything like that, and I don’t think it can, or should, be measured like that.

Getting drugs off the street is a good thing. Taking money out of the cartels’ hands is a good thing. I read recently that drug use is down with teenagers. I think that’s a good thing too. Small victories are still victories. We will never totally eradicate drugs and drug use, just like we will never be able to keep people from continually breaking a bunch of other laws.

[UNM1136]

Wow. This went so south so suddenly. Still want to see the movie.

pat

[GyroF-16]

So... The movie opens tonight some places, right?
I’ll be interested to hear about it from the first P-F attendees.

[Hambo]

So... The movie opens tonight some places, right?
I’ll be interested to hear about it from the first P-F attendees.

This thread is about a movie?

For those wanting to see the first one, if you have Amazon Prime you can watch it gratis now and then.

[Stephanie B]

Why trade a set of criminals in another country for a set in Washington?

Noted. Moving on...

[Stephanie B]

I’ve said this before on here, but the people that think legalization will “cut the criminals out of it” or whatever don’t know much about the drug trade.

Maybe you can point to the criminals involved with the legal sale of alcohol.

What we have been doing since Nixon declared his war on drugs has not worked. "Keep doing the same, only more vigorously" is not a viable option.

[GyroF-16]

So, when’s the first showing of THE MOVIE start?

[NEPAKevin]

What we have been doing since Nixon declared his war on drugs has not worked. "Keep doing the same, only more vigorously" is not a viable option.

The theory that makes the most sense to me is that the war on "drugs" should have been the war on "drug money." The problem with the supply side is that the product has virtually an unlimited supply and negligible production costs. OTOH, you stop the money going back.... Problem with the money side, past street level, it is virtually all electronic at which point there is a lot of conflict of interest on all sides of the border.

[TC215]

Maybe you can point to the criminals involved with the legal sale of alcohol.

What we have been doing since Nixon declared his war on drugs has not worked. "Keep doing the same, only more vigorously" is not a viable option.

Cigarettes are legal, and that hasn't stopped the trafficking of untaxed cigarettes.


The theory that makes the most sense to me is that the war on "drugs" should have been the war on "drug money." The problem with the supply side is that the product has virtually an unlimited supply and negligible production costs. OTOH, you stop the money going back.... Problem with the money side, past street level, it is virtually all electronic at which point there is a lot of conflict of interest on all sides of the border.

Not really. Cash is still king. We do see electronic transfers but it still gets cashed out at some point. Not uncommon to see interdiction officers on major interstates get six and seven-figure cash seizures.

[blues]

The theory that makes the most sense to me is that the war on "drugs" should have been the war on "drug money." The problem with the supply side is that the product has virtually an unlimited supply and negligible production costs. OTOH, you stop the money going back.... Problem with the money side, past street level, it is virtually all electronic at which point there is a lot of conflict of interest on all sides of the border.

Trust me, the battle was (and is) being fought on all fronts, targeting:...the drugs themselves, the laundered funds-both in cash as well as electronic form, and goods (and property) purchased with the proceeds; and the embedded groups living among us that facilitate both the trafficking and the laundering.

The problem is vast.

[Casual Friday]

Cigarettes are legal, and that hasn't stopped the trafficking of untaxed cigarettes.

Outside of Eric Garner, how many deaths can be attributed to the illegal untaxed cigarette trafficking market?

[blues]

Outside of Eric Garner, how many deaths can be attributed to the illegal untaxed cigarette trafficking market?

I don't know if it would surprise you how many gangs were involved in this activity which was often facilitated by Native American reservations along both sides of the northern border. (Just as one example.) More than enough bad hombres involved. Where there's lots of money and criminal activity afoot there tend to be some buried bodies along the way.


(Consider that a pack of smokes in NYC is $13 or more.)



Links to organized crime
Numerous reports,[11][1][12] have forged links between the illegal tobacco trade and organised crime groups, whom are attracted by high consumer demand, high potential profits, and relatively low potential penalties. In Malaysia, first time offence results in up to RM100,000 fine and a 3-year sentence; with a RM200,000 fine and 6-year jail sentence for subsequent offences. Organised crime syndicates garner wide reach through diverse distribution channels in the form of small retailers and street vendors. While retailers may be charged in court if found to be in possession of cigarettes, it has been widely assumed that crime syndicates pay these fines in order to maintain cooperation with retailers, and sustain their distribution network. Beyond these traditional distribution channels, the World Customs Organization (2012) highlights that the resale of tobacco products on the Internet is being actively developed—enabling greater reach, more discretion, and lesser chances of being caught. In 2012, French police disrupted this trend through deleting domain names of online trading sites selling tobacco products (WCO 2012).

Evidence suggests tobacco smuggling operations have been linked to terrorist organisations such as Hamas and Hezbollah, which utilize these profits to finance terrorism around the world.[13][14] since the 1980s. The WCO Illicit Trade Report 2012 highlights the illicit tobacco trade represents a good opportunity for organized crime groups and/or terrorists to generate large sums of criminal profits. Billingslea (2004) [15] wrote, terrorist groups work with organized crime groups as well as International drug trafficking organisations due to their “established trafficking routes and business contacts for the transfer of commodity for profit”. He adds, known and suspected Hezbollah and Hamas members have established front companies and legitimate businesses in the cigarette trade in Central and South America. The IRA (Irish Republican Army) was one of the first groups to begin using cigarettes to fund their activities. Police estimate that the IRA made $100million in the past 5 years from trafficking illicit cigarettes. In the Middle East, the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK) has known involvement in the trafficking of contraband cigarettes and tax stamps. The EU Commission report that the PKK has been smuggling American cigarettes into Iraq, which were then controlled by Saddam Hussein’s son. The combined efforts from cigarette and oil smuggling was reported to have made Saddam Hussein as much as $2.7billion annually after 1991.

Most recently, 16 Palestinian men arrested due to a cigarette smuggling scheme in New York were found to have some ties to convicted terrorists. One criminal in particular, had known financial ties to Omar Abdel-Rahman, a cleric serving a life sentence for a conspiracy to blow up New York City landmarks. Others arrested also had ties to a top Hamas official.

Similarly in Hong Kong, police arrested 1,200 individuals from a wide range of gangs for drug trafficking, illegal possession of arms, and contraband cigarettes. Operation Thunderbolt, which aims to target triads in Hong Kong and neighboring provinces, has been successful in infiltrating various branches of the gang’s operational networks.

The World Customs Organisation (2013) notes that while the number of illegal cigarette seizures has increased globally, the number of smuggling routes and channels continue to diversify accordingly. In Ireland, four men were recently caught transporting 9 million cigarettes with a retail value of €4.3 million, which arrived via sea freight from Malaysia. Police believe this shipment was destined for Ireland’s largest smuggling gangs, who have also been involved in armed robberies and burglaries. In the United Kingdom, cigarette smuggling has become so increasingly profitable that smuggling syndicates have turned to bribing young women to smuggle cigarettes in exchange for free summer holidays. UK border officials have revealed that close to 50 million cigarettes are seized each month from girls as young as 15, who were given flights to Spain, accommodation and pocket money. Cigarette smuggling has since become one of Europe’s fastest growing forms of organized crime,[16] and has been responsible for funding larger operations such as drug smuggling or people trafficking. South Africa faces similar problems with cigarette smuggling, as police report the sale of illegal cigarettes is bigger than drugs in South Africa.[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illicit_cigarette_trade

[TC215]

I brought up untaxed cigarettes to make the point that making something legal doesn't necessarily stop the illegal sales/black market.


“The related crimes are staggering,” said William V. Pelfrey Jr., an associate professor of criminal justice at Virginia Commonwealth University’s Wilder School of Government who is one of the few academics in the country to examine illicit cigarette trafficking. “This is a significantly understudied area, particularly given the substantial revenue available and the potential for organized crime activity.”


But cigarette trafficking is generating the same sort of associated crimes, among them burglary, credit card fraud, identity theft, money laundering — and possibly murder.


A 2013 report by the staff of the Virginia State Crime Commission said Virginia police agencies were aware of armed robberies among competing cigarette traffickers.

Four Richmond-area men were charged in federal court last month with conspiracy to commit armed robberies — including the Jan. 7 robbery described above — that netted $300,000 worth of cash and cigarettes.

https://www.richmond.com/news/local/crime/cigarette-trafficking-spawning-other-crimes-and-possibly-violence/article_e101477f-1c3d-5117-bcce-f8839f52485c.html

[CCT125US]

Skirting the sin tax seems to be a reason for crime to become organized. Which takes me to the Libertarian viewpoint of taxation is theft. Albeit government santioned.

[critter]

I brought up untaxed cigarettes to make the point that making something legal doesn't necessarily stop the illegal sales/black market.



Wouldn't a little more accurate crime comparison be that of alcohol prohibition and repeal? Granted, other than a few news blurbs or movie portrayals, I know next to nothing about the war on drugs. It would seem the tax revenue alone on legal marijuana should be rather astounding and could properly fund detox clinics for the harder drugs, more personnel for going after the deadlier narcotics, etc.

At least with pot (and cocaine for that matter), it was 'legal' for hundreds of thousands of years and has been illegal for a little over half a century or so. I don't recall reading about massive drug wars in history when most everything was legal (but also sans taxation). From the outside looking in, it would appear that buying clean, regulated stuff from your local Walgreens would eliminate much of the blood money even if not totally eliminate it, decrease prison overpopulation, etc. We don't exactly have gangland turf war body counts over alcohol anymore. Seems the extrapolation is logical even if not entirely accurate.

[schüler]

I heard there were teh hott blunt(s) in this thread. I am half disappointed. But not by Ms Emily.

With legalization I expect a comedy about disenfranchised bangers - Pina Colada Express pls.

Will be seeing the movie tonight at 7pm.

[HCM]

Wouldn't a little more accurate crime comparison be that of alcohol prohibition and repeal? Granted, other than a few news blurbs or movie portrayals, I know next to nothing about the war on drugs. It would seem the tax revenue alone on legal marijuana should be rather astounding and could properly fund detox clinics for the harder drugs, more personnel for going after the deadlier narcotics, etc.

At least with pot (and cocaine for that matter), it was 'legal' for hundreds of thousands of years and has been illegal for a little over half a century or so. I don't recall reading about massive drug wars in history when most everything was legal (but also sans taxation). From the outside looking in, it would appear that buying clean, regulated stuff from your local Walgreens would eliminate much of the blood money even if not totally eliminate it, decrease prison overpopulation, etc. We don't exactly have gangland turf war body counts over alcohol anymore. Seems the extrapolation is logical even if not entirely accurate.

Cocaine is a chemical compound developed in the mid 1800s which became popular in the 1880s. It is significantly stronger than the coca leaves from which it is derived and had devastating effects on people. Devastating enough it was regulated with about 30 years of it becoming popular.

Regarding marijuana - the tax money is not free, there are human, societal and monetary costs associated with legal marijuana. Even the “no worse than alcohol” arguments fail to take into account how many lives are lost and ruined via alcohol. It is just culturally ingrained so we are stuck with it.

[HCM]

Wife and I tried to like that show. Should have given it a few more episodes.

Begin at the beginning. The Wire is the best / most accurate depiction of the criminal justice system in action I’ve ever seen on TV.

That reality can be ugly so I can see why someone might not find that enjoyable viewing, but it is accurate. Especially the first couple seasons.

[CCT125US]

Begin at the beginning. The Wire is the best / most accurate depiction of the criminal justice system in action I’ve ever seen on TV.

That reality can be ugly so I can see why someone might not find that enjoyable viewing, but it is accurate. Especially the first couple seasons.

We may sit through a couple more episodes. (Picked it up at the library) Wife and I were both criminology / sociology majors, so it is definately our genre. I think it was more to do with the characters, than anything else. Preacher man (Seth Gillim) from the Walking Dead was interesting.

[RoyGBiv]

Well... I was disappointed.

Story line wasn't what I was expecting. Lots and lots of holes in times and distances.

Brutality conveyed, but below what you see in the news.

I'll leave it at that.

[blues]

Well... I was disappointed.

Story line wasn't what I was expecting. Lots and lots of holes in times and distances.

Brutality conveyed, but below what you see in the news.

I'll leave it at that.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Josh_Brolin_Emily_Blunt_Cannes_2015_%28cropped%29. jpg/170px-Josh_Brolin_Emily_Blunt_Cannes_2015_%28cropped%29. jpg

[GardoneVT]

I plan on watching it tomorrow. Hopefully the story doesn’t suffer from All Bullets and No Brains Syndrome.




Wouldn't a little more accurate crime comparison be that of alcohol prohibition and repeal? Granted, other than a few news blurbs or movie portrayals, I know next to nothing about the war on drugs. It would seem the tax revenue alone on legal marijuana should be rather astounding and could properly fund detox clinics for the harder drugs, more personnel for going after the deadlier narcotics, etc.

At least with pot (and cocaine for that matter), it was 'legal' for hundreds of thousands of years and has been illegal for a little over half a century or so. I don't recall reading about massive drug wars in history when most everything was legal (but also sans taxation). From the outside looking in, it would appear that buying clean, regulated stuff from your local Walgreens would eliminate much of the blood money even if not totally eliminate it, decrease prison overpopulation, etc. We don't exactly have gangland turf war body counts over alcohol anymore. Seems the extrapolation is logical even if not entirely accurate.

There are two points to note here. One is that the costs of intoxicant use are shared by society. Lots of people die in DUI related car wrecks,and usually not the intoxicated perpetrator. It would be little different for legalized narcotics: sure the open economic trade of the drug cuts down on the direct social costs of gang wars and business disputes being settled with Uzis. But there’s no free lunch- we simply shift the social burden from one side of the ledger to another.

The goal ultimately is for people to not want to get high in the first place,regardless of what the intoxicant is or who’s selling it. Anything less then this is simply moving the problem around.

[schüler]

Well... I was disappointed.

Story line wasn't what I was expecting. Lots and lots of holes in times and distances.

Brutality conveyed, but below what you see in the news.

I'll leave it at that.Yeah, it was mostly threadbare sock.

But. "Let's talk about your future."

[Stephanie B]

But there’s no free lunch- we simply shift the social burden from one side of the ledger to another.

The goal ultimately is for people to not want to get high in the first place,regardless of what the intoxicant is or who’s selling it. Anything less then this is simply moving the problem around.
I submit that the goal you propose is unreachable.

Liquor distributors aren’t shooting up each other’s premises. Neither are the gas stations and “Stop ‘n Rob” stores which sell cigarettes.

Legalization of drugs will, no doubt, have its own problems. But if we can take the crime and corruption associated with the sale and distribution of drugs off the board, I think that is a net win.

But I expect that any move to legalize drugs will be vigorously opposed by a lot of people in and out of government for whom legalization will break their rice bowls.

[TheNewbie]

Well... I was disappointed.

Story line wasn't what I was expecting. Lots and lots of holes in times and distances.

Brutality conveyed, but below what you see in the news.

I'll leave it at that.

Was it a "America is really the bad guy" movie?

[RoyGBiv]

Was it a "America is really the bad guy" movie?
I didn't get that vibe.

When Matthew Modine showed up as SecDef, I knew the movie was in trouble.

[TheNewbie]

I didn't get that vibe.

When Matthew Modine showed up as SecDef, I knew the movie was in trouble.

But he flew the Memphis Belle, so it kind of makes sense???

[HCM]

But he flew the Memphis Belle, so it kind of makes sense???

Private Joker.

[blues]

Private Joker.

Secretary Joker.

[jlw]

I saw it last night. It started out great, and it had some action scenes that were well done, but it just didn't hold together all the way through the movie.

The entire movie was clearly a setup for a part three and was not meant to stand alone.

[Casual Friday]

I saw it last night. It started out great, and it had some action scenes that were well done, but it just didn't hold together all the way through the movie.

The entire movie was clearly a setup for a part three and was not meant to stand alone.

That was my take as well.

[GardoneVT]

I submit that the goal you propose is unreachable.

Liquor distributors aren’t shooting up each other’s premises. Neither are the gas stations and “Stop ‘n Rob” stores which sell cigarettes.

Legalization of drugs will, no doubt, have its own problems. But if we can take the crime and corruption associated with the sale and distribution of drugs off the board, I think that is a net win.

But I expect that any move to legalize drugs will be vigorously opposed by a lot of people in and out of government for whom legalization will break their rice bowls.

Ideally the mods will continue this subject in a different thread.

While the prevailing media and social opinions are that MJ legalization has nothing to do with the increase in crimes recorded in Denver,the numbers are telling a different narrative. According to an MSU study, in the year after legalization was passed property crimes increased by 44% and “social crimes” listed as gambling,prostitution and parole violations increased by 47% .Homeless shelter surveys also showed that respondents felt there were more users on account of easier access to MJ then before.

It’s also documented that legal marijuana businesses are still targeted for violent crime , as like banks they store a valuable substance. While few of the stats listed can be directly connected to legalization, it’s a social groupthink pipe dream to suggest it’s a policy free of cost.Had these stats increased in the year after CCW issuance ,the gun control lobby would be wailing like a fire alarm.

[Bigghoss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omkf9s80gIQ

[RoyGBiv]

While the prevailing media and social opinions are that MJ legalization has nothing to do with the increase in crimes recorded in Denver,the numbers are telling a different narrative. According to an MSU study, in the year after legalization was passed property crimes increased by 44% and “social crimes” listed as gambling,prostitution and parole violations increased by 47% .Homeless shelter surveys also showed that respondents felt there were more users on account of easier access to MJ then before.
Correlation does not equal causation...

It's possible that the crime increases are due to increased bad behavior directly related to MJ sales/consumption.... Or... It might be that CO legalization drew more criminals/abusers/etc from outside CO. It would require much more information to conclude that legal MJ nationwide would yield the same increases, vs the theory that since CO was an early adopter, those that would be inclined to commit related crimes have come from many outside places and concentrated the criminal activity where the risk (possession risk in this case) is lower.

[TiroFijo]

Wow! All these deep analyses of Sicario... I guess it is as realistic regarding this topic of "war on drugs on the border" as Rambo is to real SF operations.

[Stephanie B]

While the prevailing media and social opinions are that MJ legalization has nothing to do with the increase in crimes recorded in Denver,the numbers are telling a different narrative. According to an MSU study, in the year after legalization was passed property crimes increased by 44% and “social crimes” listed as gambling,prostitution and parole violations increased by 47% .Homeless shelter surveys also showed that respondents felt there were more users on account of easier access to MJ then before.

And there've been an uptick in reported hate crimes since 2016. Does that mean that Trump is somehow responsible?

I can't see how an increase in vice arrests correlates to legalization of cannabis.


It’s also documented that legal marijuana businesses are still targeted for violent crime , as like banks they store a valuable substance. While few of the stats listed can be directly connected to legalization, it’s a social groupthink pipe dream to suggest it’s a policy free of cost.Had these stats increased in the year after CCW issuance ,the gun control lobby would be wailing like a fire alarm.

Part of that is because the Feds won't allow the dispensaries to access the banking system. So they have buttloads of cash.

[Trooper224]

I'm going to see this one this afternoon. Afterward I'll give everyone my opinion on its cinematic worth, while sparing everyone my opinion on drug issues.

[Stephanie B]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omkf9s80gIQ

I don’t know if “villain” is a good term. As a moral compass, Kate was 100% ineffective. I got the sense that the director was trying to make a shoot-‘em-up while disapproving of the shooting.

[Trooper224]

I don’t know if “villain” is a good term. As a moral compass, Kate was 100% ineffective. I got the sense that the director was trying to make a shoot-‘em-up while disapproving of the shooting.

I saw the character more as a rather overt and clumsy attempt to provide a moral sounding board. I hate it when movie makers feel they have to hit the audience over the head with an issue to get the point across. She was there to remind us how complex, unfortunate and just plain screwed up the issue is, as if we didn't know that already.

[NEPAKevin]

The entire movie was clearly a setup for a part three and was not meant to stand alone.

Pretty much what they said about "The Empire Strikes Back" back in the day. All they need are three really crappy prequels and "S2, Day of the Soldado" will be good to go.

Have not read the book, but Amazon has Border Wars (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GL3NM9G/ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_7_w?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-2&pf_rd_r=8A9HVRQFH15PKY69MPHV&pf_rd_r=8A9HVRQFH15PKY69MPHV&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=efbd074c-33ab-4b82-9b90-7265f897ce5d&pf_rd_p=efbd074c-33ab-4b82-9b90-7265f897ce5d&pf_rd_i=11552285011) by Lou Dobbs and James O'Born as one of their Kindle daily deals.

[Stephanie B]

Pretty much what they said about "The Empire Strikes Back" back in the day. All they need are three really crappy prequels and "S2, Day of the Soldado" will be good to go.


If there is a more pointless form of movie then a prequel, I don’t know what it is.

[GardoneVT]

And there've been an uptick in reported hate crimes since 2016. Does that mean that Trump is somehow responsible?

I can't see how an increase in vice arrests correlates to legalization of cannabis.



Part of that is because the Feds won't allow the dispensaries to access the banking system. So they have buttloads of cash.

The product itself is valuable enough to rob . As far as the data goes,no informed conclusions can be drawn either way. Which is why further research is necessary,absent political bias one way or the other. It’s clear to me at the moment any data which points to potential downsides of legalization is not being objectively considered.

[UNM1136]

If there is a more pointless form of movie then a prequel, I don’t know what it is.

Oh, come on....I can think of many....some....a few...oh damn.

pat

[blues]

I don’t know if “villain” is a good term. As a moral compass, Kate was 100% ineffective. I got the sense that the director was trying to make a shoot-‘em-up while disapproving of the shooting.


I saw the character more as a rather overt and clumsy attempt to provide a moral sounding board. I hate it when movie makers feel they have to hit the audience over the head with an issue to get the point across. She was there to remind us how complex, unfortunate and just plain screwed up the issue is, as if we didn't know that already.

Isn't that what they call "nuanced".

I love the evolution of language. We have "narratives", "optics", "no there there" and then as quickly as they appear on the scene, they are replaced by the next buzzword du jour.



https://youtu.be/nvjYuIBy-oQ

[Bigghoss]

I don’t know if “villain” is a good term. As a moral compass, Kate was 100% ineffective. I got the sense that the director was trying to make a shoot-‘em-up while disapproving of the shooting.

Yeah, villain is too strong. But it's an interesting perspective that I had not considered.

[NEPAKevin]

Oh, come on....I can think of many....some....a few...oh damn.

pat

The "Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" were not bad... except that they probably enabled the making of episodes 1-3. Disregard.

ETA. OK, the Hobbit movies. Sure, they milked the ever living crap out of the book and added stuff, but still, Brit Office dude did a good job playing Bilbo and it didn't suck balls or enable delusions of grandeur.

[GardoneVT]

It’s a tragedy,really. Sicario II is not one movie but is actually composed of three good movies- good because these subplots are acted well and would be great stories told in their own venues. Instead they are tragically strung together in a badly edited and implausible sequence which meets then crosses the cartoon event horizon. Maybe Quentin Tarantino’s non linear editing would have saved the story,but as written Sicario II is what you get by sticking a liberal geopolitics class and a Magpul dynamics DVD in a blender.

[Robinson]

If there is a more pointless form of movie then a prequel, I don’t know what it is.

The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly wasn't bad as far as hokey-ass western prequels go.

[Redhat]

But he flew the Memphis Belle, so it kind of makes sense???

He'll always be "Joker"

[LOKNLOD]

He'll always be "Joker"

Isn’t he running a lab in Indiana these days?

[Trooper224]

Well, that was pretty average.

Not a bad movie, but it lacked the gritty sense of claustrophobic tension that made the first movie effective. If this is the second of a planned trilogy the lack of focus is understandable, since the second of three is always more filler than anything else. The plot was really all over the place and lacked focus, which didn't help. It was as if they couldn't decide what kind of movie it was going to be, an all too common thing in Hollywood. Benicio Del Torro and Josh Brolin were a bit misused in this one. Del Torro's character didn't have the sense of painful vengeance that seemed to inhabit him the first time around. The character just seemed to be moving through the plotline because the script told him to. Giving Brolins character some kind of moral compass he completely lacked in the first movie totally changed the tone and not for the better.

[Mobettadefense]

I saw it this afternoon. I don't understand why there is disappointment with the flick. Yes, there are holes in the times/distances covered by the characters. Yes there are issues with structure and plot development but as a summer adventure shoot 'em up flick it really satisfies. The U.S. trying to start a war between the cartels was a pretty cool story line and I was able to suspend my disbelieve enough to enjoy the action.
Sets up for a third Sicario flick that I will be ready to enjoy next time. Could it have been better? Certainly but....if you are wanting lots of deep meaning, subtly and character examination to go with your violent shoot 'em ups you can always re-watch No Country for Old Men.

[blues]

...but....if you are wanting lots of deep meaning, subtly and character examination to go with your violent shoot 'em ups you can always re-watch No Country for Old Men.


https://youtu.be/OLCL6OYbSTw

[Redhat]

Well, that was pretty average...Giving Brolins character some kind of moral compass he completely lacked in the first movie totally changed the tone and not for the better.

I didn't perceive any lack of a moral compass in the first movie, in fact, he was mission focused and seemed committed to doing the right thing (winning)...no matter what.

So would you recommend seeing part 2 or is it a waste of money?

[GardoneVT]

I saw it this afternoon. I don't understand why there is disappointment with the flick.

Unrealistic character choices. Because the overall story is weaksauce, characters do unrealistic things to drive the plot.
No clear protagonist.
Contrived coincidences in said weaksauce story.
Caricature characters- this is what really sticks ,because the first Sicario takes time to build charaters,even the supporting players. Here they just fill out a stereotype. May as well be a totally different Matt and Alejandro in this movie then in the first.Ironically the only consistent character between the two movies was Jeffery Donovan’s role.

I could keep going,but I’ll end my critiques here. This is a “watch once to check the box” movie at best.

[Trooper224]

I didn't perceive any lack of a moral compass in the first movie, in fact, he was mission focused and seemed committed to doing the right thing (winning)...no matter what.

So would you recommend seeing part 2 or is it a waste of money?


No, I wouldn't call it a waste of money because it isn't a bad movie. It just lacks the focus and intensity of the original. If you thought the laser like focus of Brolins character was cool in the first movie, you won't like the characters portrayal in the second. Personally, I didn't find his character objectionable in the first movie. The character obviously put mission objectives above anything else, including morals and ethics which he found to be an encumbrance. That takes a dive in the second movie without any real set up or development to explain it. The character I found objectionable in the first movie was Emily Blunts. The characters wide eyed Mary Sue attitude was a turn off. The gun handling is pretty decent (I'll give Del Torro a pass on bump firing a Beretta 92 'cause 92s are sexy.) and Sexy Steves reaction when he takes a hit during one shootout is the high point of the movie. A movie is a medium by which to tell a story. This one just didn't tell it as well as the first, but I've seen far worse.

[Vinh]

My wife surprisingly enjoyed the movie. My daughter had been waiting 6 months to see it, she liked the score. I would have been fine with two movies, did not appreciate a possible setup for a third.

[Rosco Benson]

Saw it yesterday. Not bad. Not as good as the first.

Rosco

[Redhat]

Thanks Trooper for the breakdown.

I'm kinda bummed now...sounds like they showed most of the best parts in the trailers. Guess I'll stay home and watch the old stand-by...Black Rain.

[blues]

Thanks Trooper for the breakdown.

I'm kinda bummed now...sounds like they showed most of the best parts in the trailers. Guess I'll stay home and watch the old stand-by...Black Rain.

I sense a pattern...Red hat, Black Rain...what's next? White Knights? Blue Velvet? Soylent Green? ;)

[Redhat]

I sense a pattern...Red hat, Black Rain...what's next? White Knights? Blue Velvet? Soylent Green? ;)

It' an old joke between me and the wife. Back before DVRs if nothing was on to watch, I'd ask if she wanted to watch Black Rain...answered shortly after by the "eye roll". It's one of my favorite movies though.


Oh..and you forgot Black Hat

[vcdgrips]

Saw it last night. If the first one was an A-, this one was a solid B at best. I thought the score was quite good, though not used as well as in the first film. Benicio's "Mexicanismo" first developed in Traffic was excellent as Isabel's father. Isabel herself was well cast in that she had the right mix of child/adult in her words and deeds.

Having said that, I have told my children (and anyone else who will listen) for some time now that there is a world of difference between a movie and a film. The vast majority of titles released are simply movies, a way to pass a couple of hours. No more or less.

[Trooper224]

Saw it last night. If the first one was an A-, this one was a solid B at best. I thought the score was quite good, though not used as well as in the first film. Benicio's "Mexicanismo" first developed in Traffic was excellent as Isabel's father. Isabel herself was well cast in that she had the right mix of child/adult in her words and deeds.

Having said that, I have told my children (and anyone else who will listen) for some time now that there is a world of difference between a movie and a film. The vast majority of titles released are simply movies, a way to pass a couple of hours. No more or less.

That's an excellent way to phrase it.

[Trooper224]

Thanks Trooper for the breakdown.

I'm kinda bummed now...sounds like they showed most of the best parts in the trailers. Guess I'll stay home and watch the old stand-by...Black Rain.

They've been showing Black Rain a lot on cable recently. I've caught it several times late at night. Who doesn't dig snubbie wheelguns and New York reloads?

I was in Japan when that movie premiered, it gives a good feel for the country's vibe back then.

[Casual Friday]

Saw it last night. If the first one was an A-, this one was a solid B at best. I thought the score was quite good, though not used as well as in the first film. Benicio's "Mexicanismo" first developed in Traffic was excellent as Isabel's father. Isabel herself was well cast in that she had the right mix of child/adult in her words and deeds.

Having said that, I have told my children (and anyone else who will listen) for some time now that there is a world of difference between a movie and a film. The vast majority of titles released are simply movies, a way to pass a couple of hours. No more or less.

A good example of that is Heat. Heat is a film. Triple 9 and Den of Thieves are movies. New range buddy had never watched Heat and wasn't too interested in it because it looked "dated". I talked him into watching it since it's on Netflix now and he was amazed how good it was for a 23 year old movie.

[blues]

https://youtu.be/HkrREsDTfmo

[Hambo]

They've been showing Black Rain a lot on cable recently. I've caught it several times late at night. Who doesn't dig snubbie wheelguns and New York reloads?

I'm in, plus there is a pre-Shockwave shotgun: a cut off Stevens 67.

[Dagga Boy]

First....Black Rain is on my favorites list. It was an “era” movie like Colors.

Saw Sicarrio II yesterday. I liked it and hopefully there will be a third. It will be a good trilogy and hopefully leave it at three. I am likely a bit different than many because of some exposure I have had to a bit different world of government combined with a traditional LE career and some interesting private sector stuff. Black and White type people working in a very gray playing field is always a good story line for me. This had that. I am also a huge Benicia Del Toro fan, so that helps as well. All three main characters have developed and I like.

[Bigghoss]

I re-watched the first one just to make sure I'm up to speed. I might go catch the second later today. I also like Benicio Del Toro as an actor. He's done a great job in everything I've seen him in.

[GyroF-16]

I also re-watched Sicario last week, and then went to see Sicario II yesterday.
I thought it was a pretty good movie. I’d put it just a tick below the first one, but still a good use of 2 hours of my life.
I’d recommed it to friends.

Also, in the previews, saw one for “First Man,” about Neil Armstrong and the space program. Seems like a “The Right Stuff” for this era, and it appears to pick up about where that movie left off. Will definitely be seeing it with my two young sons, as they both have interest in that direction.

[Trooper224]

I also re-watched Sicario last week, and then went to see Sicario II yesterday.
I thought it was a pretty good movie. I’d put it just a tick below the first one, but still a good use of 2 hours of my life.
I’d recommed it to friends.

Also, in the previews, saw one for “First Man,” about Neil Armstrong and the space program. Seems like a “The Right Stuff” for this era, and it appears to pick up about where that movie left off. Will definitely be seeing it with my two young sons, as they both have interest in that direction.

I've really hoping First Man has some decent inclusion of the Gemini Program. Gemini was my favorite of the three spacecraft used in the race to the moon and it usually gets neglected in movies, in favor of either Mercury or Apollo.

[Casual Friday]

I hope I don't get banned for this, but I've never seen Black Rain. I'll have to look for it streaming somewhere.

[blues]

I hope I don't get banned for this, but I've never seen Black Rain. I'll have to look for it streaming somewhere.

WTF!!! How is that even possible?

I just checked my DirecTV search and it shows on Encore (STARZ) on demand and channel 541 (SEACHD)

(I think amazon had a link to a free trial if you don't already have it.)


Amazon Prime Video has it also...as a rental or purchase, however.

[JSGlock34]

WTF!!! How is that even possible?

It's possible? Manned space flight is possible.

[blues]

It's possible? Manned space flight is possible.

Fake news!!!

[Casual Friday]

WTF!!! How is that even possible?

I just checked my DirecTV search and it shows on Encore (STARZ) on demand and channel 541 (SEACHD)

(I think amazon had a link to a free trial if you don't already have it.)


Amazon Prime Video has it also...as a rental or purchase, however.

I'll probably rent it from Amazon one night this week. Free trials end up with me forgetting to cancel and paying for a channel for several months that I forgot I had access to.

[Coyotesfan97]

https://youtu.be/OLCL6OYbSTw

What the most you ever lost on a coin toss? Great scene!

[blues]

What the most you ever lost on a coin toss? Great scene!

Scary dude... bad hairdo notwithstanding.

[Stephanie B]

I hope I don't get banned for this, but I've never seen Black Rain. I'll have to look for it streaming somewhere.

Me, either. Is it about living in Pittsburgh in the `40s? I heard that back then, businessmen would take in a spare shirt so they could change out of the one that smog and pollution had made gray between leaving home and lunchtime. The initial rain must have been very filthy.

(Not that?)