HK LEM V1 trigger help.

[KeithH]

OK. I have NO idea how to use this trigger. So rather than just randomly trying more of what is not already working and building in bad habbits I would like some suggestions on how to build competnecy with the LEM trigger. There has to be some protocol or drill I could do clean up my reactivity to it. Looking around online I could not find any tutorials and I can't find any trainers in my area that specialize in LEM triggers.

I am transitioning from single action and striker fired. I would love to hear from anyone who can shoot this thing.

This is a HK P30 SK.

[David S.]

What aspect of the trigger are you struggling with?

What metrics are you measuring yourself by? What are your expectations?

[KeithH]

For some odd reason I am inconsistent with the trigger, every third or fourth round is 12" off center at 5 yards, (slow rate of fire 2 rounds a second). Thinking about the trigger makes it worse. For some reason the long take up confuses me.

I wanted to stay close to the x ring at that distance with that rate of fire.

[David S.]

Some people struggle with the LEM, some don't. I'm a mediocre shooter, so take this with a grain of salt.

I can get away with slapping the crap out of the LEM on high probability targets, but I shoot the LEM best when I aggressively prep the trigger.

[navyman8903]

Every trigger is about taking up the slack to the wall, a clean consistent press, and follow through. The LEM trigger throws people off at first because of the light take up to the wall, then the short reset if you ride the reset. Some trigger slappers do well with the LEM also.

My recommendation is dry fire. Very slow follow through at first. Then start going live. But stay at that pace, maximum follow through, even if you feel like you're going slow motion. Then speed it up once you're hitting 100%. I would say start at 3,7, and 10 yards to keep it easy to see what the follow through gets you. Shooting tight groups at 3 yards isn't something to brag about obviously. But if you focus on your fundamentals and make super nice tiny groups, then you can start pressing out.

One thing I used to do with a Medium LEM which I can't do with a light LEM is draw, once on target take the slack out, then press the shot. Some guns I just draw and press the shot once on target. Taking the slack out with a pause helped me learn and master the trigger. I actually prefer the Light LEM for a multitude of reasons, but could still be effective with a medium. But once you master the LEM you start to favor it. It's as fast as you are in a lot of ways. There's that "It's a weird trigger system" thin your brain has to get over at first. But after a while you'll be able to shoot it just like any other gun. I recommend riding the reset for maximum success until you get the trigger down. I've found having had a lot of buddies shoot my LEM HK's that the trigger slappers tend to hate it, especially the P series variants. I actually gave it to a buddy and didn't describe the trigger at all to him, and he shot the lights out with it. I explained it to him later and he couldn't grasp it, but shot it very well.

Also if you overthink any aspect of shooting, you tend to drop shots. Dry practice goes a long way. Also ride the reset.

[Spartan1980]

I'm in the same boat as you are, trying to leave the striker fired and SA guns behind. However I have some time behind DA revolvers but I'm pretty dated there.

I was shooting my P30 DA/SA and found myself throwing the DA shot very low EVERY time. As in 5 to 6" low at 15. It brought back the fact that follow through is critical. Two things: I was anticipating the shot. Not really a flinch really, just trying to "get on the gun" too soon. Also the muzzle was recoiling down when the hammer broke. The DA is pull is pretty stout. It was a little confusing at first because I don't see anything in dryfire but all the fundamentals are just a wee bit more critical than a nice striker or 1911 trigger. Grip, and more importantly maintaining that grip all the way to hammer fall. I got back into the swing of it by just shooting the DA first shot, dropping the hammer, and repeating for about 100 rounds. I'm out of practice and will have to put in a lot more time but I know it's not insurmountable to get good hits in DA.

Keep at it. What navyman8903 says is true. I found the same in DA revolvers, once you get it down you'll actually like it better.

[Leroy]

When I dabbled with LEM my best results came from prepping to the wall and from that point treating the trigger like I would a DA. Smooth and consistent speed, it feels like a SA but I had to shoot it more like a DA. Didn't really have to be careful with the trigger at 7 yards though. It was when I got out to 15-25 yards that I had to pay attention.
For reference, on every DA/SA I have owned (5 different models), I could basically mash the trigger in SA and hold the A zone 95% of the time at 25 yards. The DA I would have to do it right to get consistent good hits, same with LEM.

[YVK]

Shoot it like a striker with a very long takeup and reset. Your work when resetting and prepping the trigger is what likely needs some tuning. Don't shoot it like a DA unless your target is huge.

[David S.]

I agree with YVK. I don’t understand the “shoot it like a DA trigger” technique that people suggest. My LEMs (all TGS) have a pronounced pressure wall much closer in feel to a striker action than a double action trigger.

Then again, I suck.

[cornstalker]

Shoot it like a striker with a very long takeup and reset. Your work when resetting and prepping the trigger is what likely needs some tuning. Don't shoot it like a DA unless your target is huge.

My limited experience puts me in agreement with YVK as well.

[Mark D]

Just for giggles, I shot my P2000 with light LEM yesterday. I've been shooting Glocks exclusively for 10 months, so it was quite a change. My targets, and the timer, told me I have to be much more patient on the trigger. Slapping it like my Glock resulted in poor hits. Slowing down 0.15 - 0.20s as I worked through the wall made a huge difference. Keeping a hard front sight focus while working through the wall also helped. My Glocks are much more forgiving of marginal technique.

With work, I could probably learn to run the LEM trigger faster. And I'd probably be a much better shooter because of it.

Caveat: I'm an intermediate shooter with only about 3000 rounds through an LEM gun.

[Alembic]

I've been working exclusiving with a G19.3 for the last 9 months, a total of just over 6,000 rounds. 5,000 in the last 4 months on a timer, tracking times and working drills. Failure to Stop, Bill Drill, and single shoot to CNS all at 7 yards. My splits run 1.45 to 1.60 draws and .40 to .60 splits for good COM and CNS, hits. By that I mean 6 inch COM groups and 4in. CNS groups.

Anyway, based on this thread I brought my USPc9 TLG LEM to the range yesterday. My splits dropped by as much as .2 tenths. My draws were 1.0 to 1.2. I was amazed. The groups opened up a bit. But times definitely improved.

Maybe it was the grip angle, I don't know... but I need to get in front of a good pistol instructor and see what is different about the way I shoot a.Glock vs. a HK.

My only advice to the OP is, don't think about the difference b/t triggers, just focus on the front sight and pull the trigger.

[GJM]

I've been working exclusiving with a G19.3 for the last 9 months, a total of just over 6,000 rounds. 5,000 in the last 4 months on a timer, tracking times and working drills. Failure to Stop, Bill Drill, and single shoot to CNS all at 7 yards. My splits run 1.45 to 1.60 draws and .40 to .60 splits for good COM and CNS, hits. By that I mean 6 inch COM groups and 4in. CNS groups.

Anyway, based on this thread I brought my USPc9 TLG LEM to the range yesterday. My splits dropped by as much as .2 tenths. My draws were 1.0 to 1.2. I was amazed. The groups opened up a bit. But times definitely improved.

Maybe it was the grip angle, I don't know... but I need to get in front of a good pistol instructor and see what is different about the way I shoot a.Glock vs. a HK.

My only advice to the OP is, don't think about the difference b/t triggers, just focus on the front sight and pull the trigger.

Technique wise, you have a bunch of low hanging fruit available to pick with the Glock.

[tsf1225]

I’ve had a P30 V1 for about 5 years now and it’s all I am shooting at the time being. For me what works best is I just pull straight through the wall and don’t stop. For harder shots where more accuracy is needed I pull a little slower and focus more on the front sight. The trigger is pretty light so I make sure I am not pulling too hard and trying to make the gun go off “NOW”. I think the light long take up followed by the wall causes most issues. Lastly my groups tighten up if I sink more finger on the trigger especially SHO & WHO.

Unless you are slapping the trigger in comparing it with a Glock the difference is the Glock reset pushes your trigger finger forward where you have very little take up before you are at the wall. The LEM is more deliberate and after the longer reset you have more take up before you get to the wall. That’s where I try and stay smooth and pull straight through without stopping. When shooting multiple shots at the same target for speed my trigger finger is in continuous motion and is moving what feels like a much further distance than a Glock.

[Alembic]

Technique wise, you have a bunch of low hanging fruit available to pick with the Glock.

Can you be more specific? Your insight is always appreciated. In my simplistic way, I'm guessing you are being polite and mean, my splits are slow and my groups are big. If so, I agree.

I was just suprised my splits improved with a LEM vs. a Glock, otherwise, I should not be offering instruction. Buyer beware.

[JohnK]

I’ve had a P30 V1 for about 5 years now and it’s all I am shooting at the time being. For me what works best is I just pull straight through the wall and don’t stop. For harder shots where more accuracy is needed I pull a little slower and focus more on the front sight. The trigger is pretty light so I make sure I am not pulling too hard and trying to make the gun go off “NOW”. I think the light long take up followed by the wall causes most issues. Lastly my groups tighten up if I sink more finger on the trigger especially SHO & WHO.

Unless you are slapping the trigger in comparing it with a Glock the difference is the Glock reset pushes your trigger finger forward where you have very little take up before you are at the wall. The LEM is more deliberate and after the longer reset you have more take up before you get to the wall. That’s where I try and stay smooth and pull straight through without stopping. When shooting multiple shots at the same target for speed my trigger finger is in continuous motion and is moving what feels like a much further distance than a Glock.

This is exactly what I do and I don't have flinch issues or any of the like as I do when I am taking out all the slack and then squeezing through the "wall."