Brass Prep

[holmes168]

Range was packed this morning so I headed home and decided to get the reloading station cleaned up. Had a couple hundred rounds to run through the case gauge and about 30 failed. Some were user error- but about half were due to bulged brass.
Was wondering if anyone had any suggestions to fix that error. I usually just grab a handful of brass, put it in the auto feeder and crank rounds out.
I don’t mind some up front work to save on powder, bullet, etc- or do I just accept the small percentage of bulged cases and move on?

[revchuck38]

I use mostly Lee resizing dies in my RL550. When I broke the decapping pin in my 9x19 die, I replaced the standard die with a "U" (undersized) die even though I never had an issue with the standard die.

Question: Have you checked the rounds that failed the case gauge in the chamber of your pistol? My understanding is that case gauges are made to absolute minimum specs to ensure that rounds that pass the case gauge will fit all chambers.

[Clusterfrack]

A Lee factory crimp die can help. But a push through debulging die is the only sure fire solution. I don’t bother with that because I don’t shoot .40 anymore. Bulged 9mm rarely fail to chamber.

I do sort my match ammo based on whether they pass the Hundo gauge.

[holmes168]

Something like this is what concerns me most
26734

[ranger]

I pick up range brass at my club - few of the shooters reload. However, one of the members shoots 9 major and leaves it so there is some bulged brass in the mix. I load all the brass through my 550 with Lee dies. If just practicing - I just take and shoot. I use check all my match ammo or serious practice ammo. Any bulged get tossed in a box marked bulged and I run those though the Lee bulge buster when I get enough in the box and have some time. DO not shoot much 40 now but same process.

[Clusterfrack]

The Hundo Gauge (http://benstoegerproshop.com/100-round-9mm-luger-hundo-chamber-checker-cartridge-case-gauge/) is $100 but money well spent.

Flip tray (http://benstoegerproshop.com/flip-tray-for-the-hundo-100-round-case-gauge/) is good to have as well.


http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-m49pmlf/products/173/images/2841/CG9-100_9__88666.1467125309.1280.1280.JPG

[holmes168]

Clusterfrack you wouldn't have an issue shooting a round sticking out of a case gauge that much- like in the picture I posted? I need to save up my monthly allowance and grab that Hundo case gauge.
Thanks

Matt

[holmes168]

I haven't checked in the pistol chamber.

[ranger]

Clusterfrack you wouldn't have an issue shooting a round sticking out of a case gauge that much- like in the picture I posted? I need to save up my monthly allowance and grab that Hundo case gauge.
Thanks

Matt

Not CF but yes most of my 9mm pistols and especially my MPX PCC would choke on the round you pictured. I that exact type bulged casing picking up 9mm major brass that is mixed in with all the other brass. I can run that through a Lee bulge buster and "fix" it.

[holmes168]

Not CF but yes most of my 9mm pistols and especially my MPX PCC would choke on the round you pictured. I that exact type bulged casing picking up 9mm major brass that is mixed in with all the other brass. I can run that through a Lee bulge buster and "fix" it.

May have to look into the Bulge Buster- I have a few thousand pieces of brass- I just sorted through a bunch today with a quick case gauge and dump into ammo box.

[BN]

Something like this is what concerns me most
26734

I use range pick up brass. For matches, everything must check OK in my Hundo. Anything that doesn't pass goes into a box marked practice only. Most of the practice ammo runs fine in my Glocks, CZ's, 1911's etc. Once in a while a round won't completely chamber and I just throw it away. Sometimes a round like you have pictured is a bad crimp. I will put them into the hundo upside down to check. I use a Lee sizing die and a Dillon crimp die. I used to use a Lee factory crimp die but quit using it for some reason that I don't remember. :)

[Clusterfrack]

In 9mm, if it chambers I’ll shoot it. In .40... be careful unless your chamber is FULLY supported.

[GuanoLoco]

I’m assuming 9mm.

Lee Full Length Sizing Die, not the Lee/EGW U-Die is fine. The U-Die will wear out your arm even with One-shot lubed brass and I’n not convinced it works any better - although it may well overwork your brass and lead to a lot of split cases.

Heavier bullets that are seated more deeply into a tapered 9mm case may be more problematic.

Your taper crimp set to about 0.378-0.380”. A hundo case gauge is awesome, but a regular case gauge or even your barrel will do if it is all you have.

You should be able to minimize the number of case gauge (CG) failures. Check a batch of brass that has been re-size BEFORE you load it - that will give you a clue as to where the problems are starting.

IMHO stay away from the Factory Crimp Die - by crimping the entire case and (lead) bullet you can reshape it - yes, but the led deforms and doesn’t spring back while the brass case WILL spring back and you are just introducing new problems.

Separate all your CG failures. You might even try sorting them into 2-3 groups ranging from ‘sticky’ to protrudes the most. Then go shoot them. See what your chamber/gun will reliably chamber and shoot. I’ve learned that my Tanfo Stock 2, Glocks and 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbines seem to run all but the worst CG failures - even split cases, pretty reliably. Other guns may be much pickier.

Also, some brass is more prone to failing than others - check the head stamps, there may be an avoidable pattern if you want to sort it, but I gave up on that long ago. I’ll pick out stepped brass when I see it but other than that I load everything.

Good luck with it!

[ranger]

I still load the stepped brass with 124s - see some issues with stepped brass and 147s. YMMV etc.

[Jim Watson]

I use range pickup brass.
Subsonic 135 and 147 gr 9mms for IDPA get Dillon sizer, Dillon flare, Hornady seat, Lee CFC. The CFC crimps the mouth and irons out the case near the base where the sizing die radius does not touch. I hardly ever see one with rub marks indicating the Internet Horror of the Squeezed Bullet.
When I load a batch of 115 gr JHPs for defense load simulation, I use the "U" sizing die. I want to see a pronounced "coke bottle" effect under those short bullets.

I load 200 SWC -230 gr .45 ACP with Dillon sizer, Dillon flare, Hornady seat, Dillon crimp.
But 185 - 200 gr JHP get the "U" die, the 185s get a case cannelure, I do not want bullets setting back against the feed ramp.
I only use a CFC on .45s that fail the gauge.

I gauge everything. Gauge failures go to practice. I can't recall the last time I had a 9mm that would not chamber in a real gun, but I have seen the very occasional bad .45.

[LittleLebowski]

Good thread, I need a hundo.

[holmes168]

Thanks for all the responses. My reloading journey has been by myself so I am just glad I still have all my fingers.
Will have more questions upcoming.

[Clusterfrack]

... The CFC crimps the mouth and irons out the case near the base where the sizing die radius does not touch. I hardly ever see one with rub marks indicating the Internet Horror of the Squeezed Bullet.

...I can't recall the last time I had a 9mm that would not chamber in a real gun.

Exactly. The Lee Factory Crimp die is an excellent way to prevent occasional oversize cases in high-throughput reloading. I don't recommend it for novice reloaders, because as Guanoloco points out it can mask serious problems. I and my buddies have loaded 100's of thousands of 9mm rounds using the Factory Crimp die. The only bullets of mine that got swaged were an out-of-spec batch from a vendor that I do not use anymore. The second ring on the FC die typically doesn't touch, or barely scrapes the case. But, when the case is bulged, the FC die fixes it. It's obvious from the feel of the press stroke, and from inspecting the case, when the second ring of the FC die engages.

After adding a Mr. Bullet Feeder to my 1050, I lost a station and had to decide between my powder check (RCBS Lockout die) and the FC die. I chose the powder check, and am still not sure it was the right decision. I have more rounds that don't gauge, and that adds a sorting step in my process.

Oh, yeah, and fucking stepped brass... that causes powder check problems.

[holmes168]

Exactly. The Lee Factory Crimp die is an excellent way to prevent occasional oversize cases in high-throughput reloading. I don't recommend it for novice reloaders, because as Guanoloco points out it can mask serious problems. I and my buddies have loaded 100's of thousands of 9mm rounds using the Factory Crimp die. The only bullets of mine that got swaged were an out-of-spec batch from a vendor that I do not use anymore. The second ring on the FC die typically doesn't touch, or barely scrapes the case. But, when the case is bulged, the FC die fixes it. It's obvious from the feel of the press stroke, and from inspecting the case, when the second ring of the FC die engages.

After adding a Mr. Bullet Feeder to my 1050, I lost a station and had to decide between my powder check (RCBS Lockout die) and the FC die. I chose the powder check, and am still not sure it was the right decision. I have more rounds that don't gauge, and that adds a sorting step in my process.

Oh, yeah, and fucking stepped brass... that causes powder check problems.

Sorting through more brass this morning. Had a few hundred bulged pieces that I tossed into an old coffee can.
So- just checking before I spend the money...
The Lee Bulge Buster and the Factory Crimp Die will solve the bulged case problem- then I can throw the formerly bulged cases in with the other brass and then through the Dillon.
Or do I need the FC Die at all?

Edit- I am reloading 9mm- the brass bulged out of the cage gauge pretty bad. I am just taking time sorting through up front instead of finding the bulges on the back side.


Thanks again for the reloading help.

Matt

[Clusterfrack]

Quick answers: last time I checked, the bulge-buster is an add-on kit for the FC die.

My experience is that in 9mm, the FC die will take care of your problems. I've never used a bulge-buster in 9mm.

They are so cheap, you might as well get both.


Sorting through more brass this morning. Had a few hundred bulged pieces that I tossed into an old coffee can.
So- just checking before I spend the money...
The Lee Bulge Buster and the Factory Crimp Die will solve the bulged case problem- then I can throw the formerly bulged cases in with the other brass and then through the Dillon.
Or do I need the FC Die at all?

Edit- I am reloading 9mm- the brass bulged out of the cage gauge pretty bad. I am just taking time sorting through up front instead of finding the bulges on the back side.


Thanks again for the reloading help.

Matt

[BN]

Sorting through more brass this morning. Had a few hundred bulged pieces that I tossed into an old coffee can.
Edit- I am reloading 9mm- the brass bulged out of the cage gauge pretty bad. I am just taking time sorting through up front instead of finding the bulges on the back side.
Matt

Are you case gauging empty brass? It will all be bulged before it is re-sized.

[holmes168]

Are you case gauging empty brass? It will all be bulged before it is re-sized.

I had some extra time on my hands this morning and spent most of it working on cleaning up brass that I have collected the past couple years. So- while going through my bucket- I decided to take an extra minutes and find a couple hundred pieces of brass that were clean and stuck them in the case gauge- so that is a long answer to say yes. About half of it was bulged and the other half was not. Then I ran some of the bulged through the resizing die and it ended up just fine.

This has been a learn by myself and on the go type of operation- so I didn't mind taking some extra time this morning. Most likely- I am doing WAY to much analysis on loading 9mm :(

[holmes168]

Something like this is what concerns me most
26734

Thanks again for the helpful comments.
Went to the range this morning with my reloads and had three guns that didn’t feed into the barrel of the PX4CC. All three stuck out like the picture I had posted earlier. Not sure if it’s a PX4CC thing or if the same issue would happen in a Glock. At least I’ve narrowed down a tolerance level.

[Hambo]

holmes168, what do these bulged cases look like?

I agree with CF that if you need a FC die, you need to fix what's really wrong and not use a FC die.

[Clusterfrack]

holmes168, what do these bulged cases look like?

I agree with CF that if you need a FC die, you need to fix what's really wrong and not use a FC die.
Hambo, actually if it’s just a few bulged cases and most of his loads gauge, I think the FC die will fix his issue.

[holmes168]

Round 1
27170

Round 2
27171

Round 3
27173

All don’t pass the case gauge and aren’t really that close. I am wondering if Staton 1 on the 650 isn’t set right. Maybe I need to set the die further down in order to resize the round better?

[holmes168]

Case gauge of round prior to depriming and reshape in Station 1 of 650.
27175

Here it is after I deprimed and resized.
27176

Wow- I just checked the die for station 1 and it was not even hand tight. Think I could have over time not it out of position?

27177

[Clusterfrack]

Is the size/decap die not all the way down to the shellplate???

[holmes168]

Mystery solved
27178

27180

Just a simple bit of tightening and eliminating some stupidity. Couldn’t have done it without all you though. Appreciate the comments which made me think through a problem!

[Clusterfrack]

Hambo you were right. FCD can’t solve that problem [emoji3]

[holmes168]

Hambo you were right. FCD can’t solve that problem [emoji3]

Can’t fix stupid. I don’t know it didn’t occur to me to check the resizing station. Thanks again for the help.

[Clusterfrack]

Once you verify that everything is set up correctly, take a Sharpie and put witness marks on the sockets, lock rings, dies, and adjustment knobs.

[cjb1911]

I noticed the redding competition sizer die does a slightly better job of removing glock buldge from 9mm. The cost is your shoulder bc it's alot more work. As a result I went back to a dillon sizer to go along with the redding micrometer seater and micrometer crimper. I literally can't remember a round that didn't chamber in my glocks with this setup(30k+). Can't speak highly enough of redding dies.

[willie]

I agree that Redding dies are excellent. When discussing dies in general, a safe generalization is that there is much variation among and between brands. Sometimes when having issues, using a different die will resolve the problem. In such instances, the original was not defective. It simply did not work well for your firearm.