Mini-14 failure to feed

[That Guy]

My Redneck Rifle* has been having some feeding issues, pretty much from when I got it. At first I was willing to blame the questionable aftermarket magazines that came with this rifle when I purchased it used, but now that I have three Ruger manufactured magazines and the gun does the same thing with all of them, I think we can pretty much exclude magazine related issues.

What happens is that the bolt does not "catch" the round but rather lets the base of the cartridge jump to the left, thusly:

26649

This has happened with all ammunition types I have fed the gun (all IMO good quality, brass cased ammunition, that work without issues when fed from PMAG's in my AR). The gun has been kept reasonably clean and well lubricated. The malfunction doesn't happen every time a round is fired, but quite bloody often enough to be aggravating.

Some of you kind people have had experience with this firearm in the past, so I was hoping someone might recognize the issue and give me some ideas as to how to fix it? (Do note that shipping the firearm overseas to Ruger is not an option. And if I may ask, let's not get into AR-15 versus Mini-14 in this discussion? I am fully aware of the shortcomings of the Mini. I still like the darn thing though and would wish to see it working reliably.)

Thank you kindly for any help you may be able to give me in fixing this issue.

( * My Mini-14 is the only firearm I own that has acquired a name/nickname. Everything else is "the AR" or "the Beretta", etc. I can't fully explain why I like the Mini as much as I do, especially regarding all its downsides, but I just do. It would be by no means my first choice for any sort of serious use, but I am glad to have it in my safe nonetheless.)

[willie]

I suggest a thorough cleaning including bolt disassembly and extractor and its spring removal. Since the round points to the left, I think you will see that it occurs when that round on the mag's right side comes up. In a controlled feed design, the extractor will pick up the case as the case rim rides up and behind the case. If not controlled feed, then the bolt hits the case and pushes it forward and then snaps over it as it's chambered. If you have controlled feed, the the extractor must be clean and burr free so that it moves back and forth freely.

Don't forget to clean the mags iside and out. You can always tweak mag lips using long nose needle nose pliers applied longitudinally along the lips. In your case, the left lip would be bent slightly inward. Let this fix be a last resort. Detailed cleaning will likely correct the issue.

[TGS]

I was holding off pending statements from a qualified armorer on what is wrong, but it appears you're not getting that so I'll throw in my 2 cents....

You have an out of spec extractor. It's not radiused properly, and isn't grabbing the rim correctly. I bet if you had it replaced, your problem would go away. I guess it's possible that it could be so dirty to cause this, but I'm guessing you would've already known to clean behind the extractor.

[HCM]

ST911

[Wayne Dobbs]

Those rifles are well known for terrible extractor performance. Make sure it's clean (and it has to be disassembled to achieve that well) and the spring is fresh. Good luck.

[ST911]

Easier to fix in-hand than on the net, but some of all this should work. Leading possibilities: extractor and/or ejector binding.

Any difference between hand-cycling and firing? Happens each time or occasional? History of the gun? Any aftermarket parts?

You already cross-checked ammo and mags.
Left side of gun, check free movement of slide catch, spring tension returns it down, side plate in place, look for obvious issues.
Raceways left and right are clear, nothing slowing anything down, bolt and op rod move smoothly.
Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTYXmiUzQk8
Remove bolt, disassemble, clean, look for burrs and shavings, extractor hook good, ejector compresses and returns, breechface good, no other breakage or cracks. Reassemble dry.
Function check hand-cycling, live fire.
If not solved, find another Mini. Swap bolts, follow the problem.

If this doesn't work, send it home to Ruger.

[Wayne Dobbs]

If this doesn't work, send it home to Ruger.

Or follow the advice I was given back in 1994 by a retired and very salty Marine Gunny when I tried to use a Mini-14 in a week-long instructor class: "Use it for a fucking fencepost!"

Alas, it was inadequate for that purpose also, being way too short for a fencepost. I dumped that thing and never looked back. Bill Ruger produced that gun for a plinking fun gun and never intended it for serious service use.

[willie]

Ruger introduced the rifle 45 years ago and has made design changes since then. Law enforcement and other government agencies in several nations have adopted the rifle in one form or another. I agree that it has a poor track record but am surprised that the company never fixed the problems. Is quality of parts the issue, manufacturing issues not resolved, or the design?

[ST911]

This post encapsulates my Mini observations... https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?18274-San-Bernadino-County-SO-Mini-14s&p=380101&viewfull=1#post380101



I've been a factory cert'ed Ruger armorer, maintained a batch of them, carried a few on patrol, and took them to some multi-day, 1k rd+ classes. I still help with a few here and there and see them in training occasionally. The sum of my experience, applicable to the pre-580 (newest variant) series:

The Mini-14 is pretty reliable but not durable. Best reliability is with stainless steel guns, copious amounts of lube, 20rd OEM mags, using quality domestically produced .223 SAAMI spec ammo. Where there are problems, it's usually one or more deviations from this. Firing pins go between 2500-5000rds, extractors about that time as well. Other small parts here and there. Gas block screws should be checked often. Mechanical accuracy is "accurate enough" for its intended purposes, and certainly exceeds the ability of most shooters. A good shooter can produce some interesting deviations with hot barrels in some guns.

When the above advice is heeded, I expect most Minis to go ~200-300 rds at a stretch, which will get most folks through a LE training rotation or TD1 of a sleep-away class. If the gun isn't PM'ed thereafter, all bets are off.

The manner of firing seems to make a difference, but not with enough consistency for intelligent comment. I suspect it's stacking tolerances. Hard firing, rough ammo, and burning lube, along with a bolt that has no real smooth transitions in its travel make the gun what it is.

Several mods have helped dedicated users of the Mini get the most out of their guns.

Shortening the barrel leaves less length in play ahead of the gas block. When shortened to 16", I found that group sizes typically decreased by 1/4 to 1/3 with less variability when heated up as well. Feedback from the field drove the heavier profile and 16" options currently available from the factory.

After shortening the barrel, installation of a GB type sight was popular. This was best done by true smiths to ensure the sight was top dead center. Many a canted sight were seen in the field due to WECSOG.

There were various barrel stiffening attachments on the market as well. Usually a rod or weight attached to the barrel ahead of the gas block to stiffen the barrel. Group sizes decreased about the same, but the ones I played with would move.

Removal and reinstallation of the gas block and screws for even torque is also thought to help. I don't know how much so by itself, but cumulatively with the above it seems to work.

A shorter stock, along with a shorter barrel, made for a very handy and fast handling carbine. The OEM stock is simply too long, and is much like running an A1 or A2 length on an AR.

Polishing and breaking the edges of the bolt lugs was also popular and seems to help wonky guns. Wonky guns that went back to Ruger often came back so tweaked.

Other aftermarket efforts included stronger firing pins, FP recess chamfering, harder extractors. Some of these, other stuff from the custom houses working Minis, and the above were integrated in the new 580 series, which makes it a better choice in the line than its predecessor models.

In the right hands, with the right PM, and with the right armorer watching the fleet, the Mini isn't unserviceable. It is what it is though.

[That Guy]

I apologise for forgetting to post an update. Busy busy busy...

I disassembled and cleaned the bolt. Did not observe anything unusual regarding the extractor.

The next day I had a chance to do a quick testfire. I shot 100 rounds using three different Ruger magazines. Up-drills, double taps, Mozambique Drills, some deliberate shots as well.

Older 20 round magazine: 1 failure to feed within the first few rounds, no other malfunctions in 40 rounds.

New 30 round magazine: many malfuntions in 40 rounds. Malfunctions also when magazine loaded with 10 rounds or less.

New 20 round magazine: several malfunctions in 20 rounds. I noticed all malfunctions happened when I attempted to shoot quickly. When I fired single deliberate shots the magazine functioned. When I tried two quick shots, I could get the magazine to malfunction quickly. Strange.

Anyways, while this was a very quick and inconclusive test, it showed some promise. Next, I shall take a closer look at the magazine. Careful cleaning of the newer magazines and comparison of their feedlips versus the older magazine is the next step.

Final observation: when the rifle functioned, shooting it was a hoot! :) Not as easy as shooting an AR, but fun.

Considering the price I paid for the rifle, and especially the price compared to AK and AR prices, and the fact that I acquired it before our magazine capacity ban making it a pre-ban firearm, and the fact I would not have been able to buy a more expensive rifle at the time, I'm still happy that I bought it. It is firmly delegated to the role of not-at-all serious use only, though. Oh well.

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[Wendell]

In my experience, Ruger has pretty good warranty; you can send it back to them and they'll make it right, and probably at no charge to you.

https://ruger.com/service/partsService.html

[Suvorov]

I apologise for forgetting to post an update. Busy busy busy...

I disassembled and cleaned the bolt. Did not observe anything unusual regarding the extractor.

The next day I had a chance to do a quick testfire. I shot 100 rounds using three different Ruger magazines. Up-drills, double taps, Mozambique Drills, some deliberate shots as well.

Older 20 round magazine: 1 failure to feed within the first few rounds, no other malfunctions in 40 rounds.

New 30 round magazine: many malfuntions in 40 rounds. Malfunctions also when magazine loaded with 10 rounds or less.

New 20 round magazine: several malfunctions in 20 rounds. I noticed all malfunctions happened when I attempted to shoot quickly. When I fired single deliberate shots the magazine functioned. When I tried two quick shots, I could get the magazine to malfunction quickly. Strange.

Anyways, while this was a very quick and inconclusive test, it showed some promise. Next, I shall take a closer look at the magazine. Careful cleaning of the newer magazines and comparison of their feedlips versus the older magazine is the next step.

Final observation: when the rifle functioned, shooting it was a hoot! :) Not as easy as shooting an AR, but fun.

Considering the price I paid for the rifle, and especially the price compared to AK and AR prices, and the fact that I acquired it before our magazine capacity ban making it a pre-ban firearm, and the fact I would not have been able to buy a more expensive rifle at the time, I'm still happy that I bought it. It is firmly delegated to the role of not-at-all serious use only, though. Oh well.

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I've been a dabbler in the Mini14 for years. I understand the strange attraction to the platform and appreciate the fact that unless "tacticool'ed" out - it maintains a low visual profile for such a gun. Don't feel bad about liking "chubby chicks" - I like them too ;)

Have you detail stripped and cleaned the extractor yet? Someone has posted a pretty good YouTube video on it - do it before YouTube pulls it! That seems to be the most likely cause to me right now. Has the rifle always done this or is this a recent development?

Also, are you getting much lateral play in when the magazine locks into the rifle? When you rapid fire are you maybe pushing on the magazine in such a way to induce a malfunction?

[HCM]

In my experience, Ruger has pretty good warranty; you can send it back to them and they'll make it right, and probably at no charge to you.

https://ruger.com/service/partsService.html

So I guess you didn’t read the OP ?

[Wendell]

So I guess you didn’t read the OP ?

Yes, I read it. My experience didn't involve sending it directly to Ruger either; per Ruger's directive, I sent it to a factory-approved warranty station. If the OP wishes to contact Ruger, they'll tell him where to seek service.

[That Guy]

Have you detail stripped and cleaned the extractor yet?

Yup, part of the whole disassembling and cleaning the bolt.


Also, are you getting much lateral play in when the magazine locks into the rifle? When you rapid fire are you maybe pushing on the magazine in such a way to induce a malfunction?

Eh, how much is "much"? All magazines wiggle about a bit when locked into the gun, both front to back and side to side.

So, I got the chance to do some shooting. Took my Mini and the two Ruger 20 round magazines. Action shooting pits were full (again...) so I ended up at the 150 meter rifle range. I shot from prone with sling support (this didn't go so well...), prone unsupported, kneeling, standing supported (leaning against a vertical support), offhand, and from the bench. I shot 60 rounds with the older magazine that had been more reliable, and 80 rounds through the newer magazine. I purposefully placed lateral pressure against the magazine when shooting kneeling, and I pulled straight back and down on the magazine when posting up against one of the supporting pillars of the range facility when shooting from supported standing. This had no effect whatsoever on the function of the magazines.

Throughout my range trip, I had about 1 failure to feed per magazine. All but one of the failures were when I was not deliberately touching the magazine (in fact twice the failure to feed was the first round from the magazine, when my support hand was near the charging handle). And for the first time ever, I had a few failures to extract! And few of the casings that extracted went straight up, not to the right as usual.

One thing that was missing from this range trip was rapid fire (what with the targets being 150 meters away, not 15 meters like the last time). But it does look like I might try a new extractor.

All ammunition was PPU bulk 55 grain FMJ. Same ammunition has worked well in my AR.

[That Guy]

In my experience, Ruger has pretty good warranty; you can send it back to them and they'll make it right, and probably at no charge to you.

https://ruger.com/service/partsService.html

This is a rifle built in the 90's and bought second-hand. While Ruger in the U.S. might be inclined to fix the rifle if asked, I very much doubt the local importer is that generous.

[Suvorov]

Yup, part of the whole disassembling and cleaning the bolt.



Eh, how much is "much"? All magazines wiggle about a bit when locked into the gun, both front to back and side to side.

So, I got the chance to do some shooting. Took my Mini and the two Ruger 20 round magazines. Action shooting pits were full (again...) so I ended up at the 150 meter rifle range. I shot from prone with sling support (this didn't go so well...), prone unsupported, kneeling, standing supported (leaning against a vertical support), offhand, and from the bench. I shot 60 rounds with the older magazine that had been more reliable, and 80 rounds through the newer magazine. I purposefully placed lateral pressure against the magazine when shooting kneeling, and I pulled straight back and down on the magazine when posting up against one of the supporting pillars of the range facility when shooting from supported standing. This had no effect whatsoever on the function of the magazines.

Throughout my range trip, I had about 1 failure to feed per magazine. All but one of the failures were when I was not deliberately touching the magazine (in fact twice the failure to feed was the first round from the magazine, when my support hand was near the charging handle). And for the first time ever, I had a few failures to extract! And few of the casings that extracted went straight up, not to the right as usual.

One thing that was missing from this range trip was rapid fire (what with the targets being 150 meters away, not 15 meters like the last time). But it does look like I might try a new extractor.

All ammunition was PPU bulk 55 grain FMJ. Same ammunition has worked well in my AR.

Wow, you are in a pickle. I think a new extractor might be a good path - it should solve your extraction issues and also might ride over your case rim easier preventing the failures to go into battery. One last question - do you have any modifications to the gas and recoil system? The only time I had serious problems with on of my mini's was when I stupidly installed a recoil buffer (because it was thinking less jarring of the action would result in better accuracy). That buffer created a multitude of issues from short stroking to failure to go into battery, once I removed it - the gun when back to full reliability.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[That Guy]

One last question - do you have any modifications to the gas and recoil system? The only time I had serious problems with on of my mini's was when I stupidly installed a recoil buffer

Not that I know of. I bought the rifle used, and the previous owner had changed front and rear sight, added an optics mount (removed) and a short piece of Picatinny rail to the stock. I am not aware of any other modifications and I have disassembled the rifle. I imagine any sort of buffer or other modification would be clearly visible during disassembly.

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[Suvorov]

Not that I know of. I bought the rifle used, and the previous owner had changed front and rear sight, added an optics mount (removed) and a short piece of Picatinny rail to the stock. I am not aware of any other modifications and I have disassembled the rifle. I imagine any sort of buffer or other modification would be clearly visible during disassembly.

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Yeah, buffers would be visible. Have you tried any of the factory 5 round magazines? The fact that the rifle is used means that a lot could have been done to the rifle without your knowledge. I would start with the extractor and only factory magazines (I don't know how easy it would be for you to get a new magazine) and go from there.

[That Guy]

Yeah, buffers would be visible. Have you tried any of the factory 5 round magazines? The fact that the rifle is used means that a lot could have been done to the rifle without your knowledge. I would start with the extractor and only factory magazines (I don't know how easy it would be for you to get a new magazine) and go from there.Actually no, I haven't. I really would like to have a Ruger 5 round magazine, but because of this magazine ban thing we're having, I've been focusing on getting larger capacity magazines while I can. The 20 round magazines are Ruger mags though.

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[Suvorov]

The 20 round magazines are Ruger mags though. The factory Rugers should be good to go.