.357 Magnum Duty/Self-Defense Cartridge Recommendations

[JonInWA]

It looks like I'll be stoking my 4" GP100 with full-house .357 magnum cartridges to meet a IDPA Match Director's challenge for June, which means I'll be concurrently using the gun for duty/carry to a significant extent.

I'll be using Sellier & Bellot 158 gr .357 for the match to make the requisite power floor; since I'm zeroed for 158 gr, what cartridges does the p-f community recommend?

I have Hornady Custom 158 gr XTP on hand, which is my standard .357 hunting cartridge; how would it stack up concurrently as a defensive round?

Thoughts and recommendations appreciated-I perused the older threads using the Search function, but didn't find all that much, particularly recently, so I thought I'd initiate this thread.

Best, Jon

[jetfire]

Lucky Gunner compiled some pretty useful data on terminal performance from .357 rounds out of a 4 inch gun, the Hornady XTPs all penetrated around 25 inches and expanded to .50 inches out of a 4 inch gun. If overpenetration is a concern, the Remington SJHP “only” penetrated 20 inches.

[revchuck38]

There's a dearth of current info on .357 Magnum effectiveness. For those times I carry one, I go with the Remington 158 grain SJHP based largely on the LG tests and things I've read that conclude that clear gel tends to overstate penetration.

Maybe I'll dig out my 681 for when I go out to dinner tonight...

[BobM]

If you can find some, I'm pretty sure the 145 grain Winchester Silvertip had a good reputation

[357carbine]

I always thought there was a lot of sound advise here - http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/can_less_be_more.htm.

[Hambo]

Send up the Dagga Boy signal.


That last time I carried .357 was a long time ago and was 125gr JHP, although I may have used Silvertips.

[Tokarev]

I'd probably look at the Hornady Critical Duty stuff.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[JAH 3rd]

If you can find some, I'm pretty sure the 145 grain Winchester Silvertip had a good reputation

I have a S&W J-frame (scandium) in .357. I have a partial box of Winchester Silvertip...145 grain .357. Shooting 5 rounds was brutal, but I just had to give 'em a whirl. Off the bucket list. I settled on Gold Dot in .357 135 grain. Big difference between GD's and Silvertips. The GD's were actually doable, warm, but not smoking hot. Settled on Winchester Ranger (RA38B) 130 grain .38 +P for carry. More controllable with easier for follow-up shots. And recommended by the good Doc.

[Leroy Suggs]

Federal 140 gr. Vortex with the Barnes XPB bullet.
When I do carry my 3 in. SP-101 that's whats in it.

[Totem Polar]

4" GP?

145 silvertips. They’ll be close to POI with 158s, IME.

Or possibly buffalo bore’s " "FBI" " note extra set of quotes; the load may be derived from the fabled Feeb fodder, and may use a LSWCHP, but it’s knocking on the door of .357 external ballistics.

Those are two of my favorite medium frame and up .38/.357 loads. FWIW.

[LOBO]

I carry 145 gr. Silvertips in mine. If I didn't have the Silvertips, I'd carry the Federal load with the X bullet.

[revchuck38]

I'd love to try some .357 Mag Silvertips, but it's been years since I've seen any available online or in a store.

[jd950]

I'd love to try some .357 Mag Silvertips, but it's been years since I've seen any available online or in a store.

They are available from several stores online and thru the end of the month Winchester has a 25% rebate, so if you want some now may be the time. Use one of the ammo seeking websites and they will show you where the stuff is in stock.

[BehindBlueI's]

I'd probably look at the Hornady Critical Duty stuff.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Fairly small sample size, but I've yet to have one stop in the person. I've got a nice evidence photo of a leather jacket, entrance hole on one side and exit "spider" shape on the other. High chest hit, survived, but it looked like it sucked.

[Tokarev]

High chest hit, survived, but it looked like it sucked.

I love the understatement!




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[Inspector71]

My last .357 duty load was the Federal "357B", in the red & white boxes. What a flame thrower. It made night shoot quals interesting.

[Chuck Haggard]

Older info from FBI testing protocols done by Winchester. Back in the day I carried the Remington 125gr .357mag, which was issued. Knowing then what I know now I'd have bought my own Silvertips, or 158gr JHPs.

From a 4" S&W 686;

Symbol Description MV FPS "BareGelatin" "HeavyCloth" Wallboard Plywood Steel Autoglass

X357SHP 357 Mag 145 STHP 1290
Penetration 15.3 16.4 18.7 18.2 16.9 15.9
Expansion 0.55 0.58 0.57 0.45 0.56
Ret Wt. % 87 73 98 97 95 81
Ret Wt. Gr. 126 106 142 140 138 117

X3574P 357 Mag 158 JHP 1048
Penetration 17 17.7 17.5 18.2 13.9 11.4
Expansion 0.53 0.48 0.45 0.44 0.53 0.681
Ret Wt. % 99 99 100 98 96 83
Ret Wt. Gr. 157 156 158 155 152 131.2

X3576P 357 Mag 125 JHP 1450
Penetration 10.7 12.3
Expansion 0.53 0.54
Ret Wt. % 74 79
Ret Wt. Gr. 93 99

[willie]

I used to buy 110 grain ammo which recoiled less, bit I have no published data on effectiveness. I liked it, though.

[BobM]

I used to buy 110 grain ammo which recoiled less, bit I have no published data on effectiveness. I liked it, though.

I have 110 grain Cor-Bon in my SP101. I used to buy the Winchester white box 110 JHPs for it but the velocity seemed low. If I carried the SP more often I’d consider going to a 38 Special load.

[JAH 3rd]

Have ya'll heard the yarn of a .357 magnum going through an engine block? Remembered that from 40 some years ago.

[willie]

Although I as a non l.e. guy have always been comfortable with the .38 Spl, I'm aware that many experts say that research findings don't support my choice. I agree with the data. In my old age, if I do give advice, I say use as much gun as you can handle. My fudd side allows me even to accept a single action .45 Colt as an occasional vehicle gun, but I hesitate to recommend such to someone else.

[RichY]

Have ya'll heard the yarn of a .357 magnum going through an engine block? Remembered that from 40 some years ago.

Oh yeah, I remember that well; I decided to test it once. We went back and forth with Detroit as to which city had the highest rate of auto thefts in the nation, and a wooded area a few miles from home was a favorite spot for stripping and dumping them. I wandered out there one day and found a car that had been there a few years. The 357 was worthless on the engine block. It merely made a splash. An old Colt SP1 with what was probably M193 worked fine,though. That would have been sometime between 1969 and 1971.

[JAH 3rd]

Firearm and ammo advice is always welcomed from individuals on the front line so to speak. Experience and results speak volumes. Pistol/revolver choice is a personal preference. Just practice and be proficient with what you shoot.

[JAH 3rd]

Oh yeah, I remember that well, I decided to test it once. We went back and forth with Detroit as to which city had the highest rate of auto thefts in the nation, and a wooded area a few miles from home was a favorite spot for stripping and dumping them. I wandered out there one day and found a car that had been there a few years. The 357 was worthless on the engine block. It merely made a splash. A old Colt SP1 with what was probably M193 worked fine,though. That would have been sometime between 1969 and 1971.

Thanks for sharing!

[Bigghoss]

Have ya'll heard the yarn of a .357 magnum going through an engine block? Remembered that from 40 some years ago.

I bet modern ammo against a small I-4 from the last couple decades might have a chance. I bet the idea mostly comes from the bullet going through the engine bay and whoever just assuming it went through the block.

[Malamute]

There used to be metal tippped and metal penetrating loads for 357. The latter used a heavy convetional jacket that was pointed shape. They may have been what was used to poke holes in engines. I dont think it could be done any old place, but a thin spot over a water jacket area may be thin enough to crack or hole. I shot several engine blocks with different calibers and loads, where you hit them made a big difference if it holed them or just made a smear, even with 45-70 loads. Just black powder 45-70, fwiw. Some were 75 grs 3f with 300 gr Hornady jacketed. If the right spot wasnt hit, it didnt work. I believe most high velocity rifle loads work better.

I suspect the whole "shoots through an engine block!" thing was PR and hype from the day more than repeatable fact.

[JonInWA]

Guys, the info and anecdotal discussions are great, but remember what I'm seeking is a carry .357 magnum cartridge that will be in synch zero-wise with the 158 grain .357 magnum cartridges (Sellier and Bellot) that I'm using in the match.

I already know that a 125 grain .357 magnum is probably the best-performing defensive cartridge, and I already know the benefits of .38 Special +P. That's not what I'm seeking in this thread.

Best, Jon

[LSP552]

The Win 145 gr STHP was an excellent performer and very popular with LSP back in our mag days. It might hit close to POA/POI with your 158 gr.

[Chuck Haggard]

Guys, the info and anecdotal discussions are great, but remember what I'm seeking is a carry .357 magnum cartridge that will be in synch zero-wise with the 158 grain .357 magnum cartridges (Sellier and Bellot) that I'm using in the match.

I already know that a 125 grain .357 magnum is probably the best-performing defensive cartridge, and I already know the benefits of .38 Special +P. That's not what I'm seeking in this thread.

Best, Jon

I used to think the 125gr JHPs were the best performers. I've since changed my opinion.

I'd look at this; https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/family/personal-defense/personal-defense-revolver/c357e

or this; https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/family/premium-personal-defense/personal-defense-hydra-shok/p357hs1#4

The Hydrashocks load into a wheelgun rather nicely from a speedloader or strips due to the conical shape and no exposed lead.


Since Mag Tech and S&B are so closely tied, you might also look at this one; https://www.luckygunner.com/magtech-357-mag-ammo-for-sale-357mag158sjhpmt-50

[Chuck Haggard]

I used to buy 110 grain ammo which recoiled less, bit I have no published data on effectiveness. I liked it, though.

The 110gr .357s and .38 +p+ loads performed poorly in real life. Wayne Dobbs has also noted this trend.

[JonInWA]

Thanks, guys-that's exactly the information I was looking for.

So far, it sounds like the leading contenders are Federal Premium 158 gr, Federal HydraShok 158 gr, Winchester Silvertip 145 gr, and Remington 158 gr.

Since when I carry a revolver my reloads normally consist of 1 Speed Strip carried strong-side in an upsidedown Galco pouch on the strong side hip (immediately ahead of the strong-side holster), 2 Speed Strips carried in a Tactical Tailor Phone Case pouch (normally carried on the weak side hip), and one Safariland Speedloader carried loose in a strong-side jacket or pants pocket, Chuck's comment about the HydraShoks being a bit easier to load due to their shape and lack of exposed lead make excellent sense. Their muzzle velocity (1240) is also close to the S&B's (1263), so that should provide both a similar POA/POI and feel is my thought.

Keep the thoughts coming, guys-great input and much appreciated. Hey, who else but p-f can come up with with relevant .357 magnum effectiveness updates with the credibility of this thread's participants?!

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

And it sounds like that while my Hornady Custom 158 gr XTP is an excellent hunting round, due to its performance and penetrativeness, it's probably bit overly penetrative for me as a duty/self-defense cartridge, particularly if used when non-threats are in the immediate or close proximity to threats.

Best, Jon

[Wondering Beard]

What about the 158gr Gold Dot?

[Wayne Dobbs]

Another vote for the WW 145 STHP. It was the issue .357 load for lots of agencies back in the heyday of the .357 Magnum revolver and was used in dozens of OISs just here in the Dallas area alone. There were few rounds needed and few survivors of the experience. Having seen it used on whitetails several times, I can say it's simply excellent. I wonder how the 158 GDHP works as it seems like a nice juncture of known good construction, standard weight and decent velocity. Speer loaded a 140 JHP back in the day that was also an excellent performer.

I'd like to see a well constructed 135-145 grain .357 load at about 1100 fps in a 3" barrel that would be controllable and that showed good penetration and expansion at moderate pressures. Seems like the Gold Dot would be an obvious choice for this.

[Dagga Boy]

While I didn't carry one of those little baby sub caliber .357's on duty....;), I did carry a 3" Model 13 as both a back up and off duty and it was stoked with Silvertip, just like my .45 Colt duty revolver. For some reason, Silvertip was a MUCH better revolver round than an auto round. Silvertip in various revolvers tended to just drop crooks. We never had anything other than one stop dumps in .45 Colt, and the .357 version was fairly legendary for taking the fight out of bad guys. These days, when I do carry .357, I am using Gold Dot. It is consistent with what I carry in .38. I use the GDHP in my N frames.

Like Wayne said, a well constructed .357 at 1100 from a 3" is a solid formula.

[revchuck38]

I'd like to see a well constructed 135-145 grain .357 load at about 1100 fps in a 3" barrel that would be controllable and that showed good penetration and expansion at moderate pressures. Seems like the Gold Dot would be an obvious choice for this.

I agree with the concept and would be happy with the upper end of the suggested weight. IME the lower end weight-wise leaves those of us with fixed-sight .357s flapping in the wind since there's too much difference between POA and POI. I tried the GDSB .357 load in my M13-2 and it just hits too low. Adding 20 grains to the current GDSB bullet and pushing it at ~1050-1100 fps would be perfect for older fixed-sight K frames. I don't know what it would do with newer/current ones.

[LOBO]

FWIW, here are the places that have Winchester 145 gr. Silvertip in stock.

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/357-magnum/Winchester-handgun-145grains-

[revchuck38]

LOBO - Thanks!

[Wayne Dobbs]

I agree with the concept and would be happy with the upper end of the suggested weight. IME the lower end weight-wise leaves those of us with fixed-sight .357s flapping in the wind since there's too much difference between POA and POI. I tried the GDSB .357 load in my M13-2 and it just hits too low. Adding 20 grains to the current GDSB bullet and pushing it at ~1050-1100 fps would be perfect for older fixed-sight K frames. I don't know what it would do with newer/current ones.

Sounds like a great load to me!

[Brian T]

I'm curious about the OAL of the .357mag 140gr X-Bullet loaded by Federal. Because its all copper, I wonder how close it is to 158gr.

I gotta be honest, I think it is probably the best .357mag offering going, when talking full house.


I kick myself when I think of those cheap cases of 165gr Remington Core-Lokt and 180gr Winchester Partition Gold that CDNN was selling for dirt cheap many years ago.

A caution about the 145gr Silvertip of today versus yesterday; the old Silvertips were aluminum jacketed, but the Silvertips of today are just the old Super-X JHP painted silver.

[JAH 3rd]

While I didn't carry one of those little baby sub caliber .357's on duty....;), I did carry a 3" Model 13 as both a back up and off duty and it was stoked with Silvertip, just like my .45 Colt duty revolver. For some reason, Silvertip was a MUCH better revolver round than an auto round. Silvertip in various revolvers tended to just drop crooks. We never had anything other than one stop dumps in .45 Colt, and the .357 version was fairly legendary for taking the fight out of bad guys. These days, when I do carry .357, I am using Gold Dot. It is consistent with what I carry in .38. I use the GDHP in my N frames.

Like Wayne said, a well constructed .357 at 1100 from a 3" is a solid formula.

+1 on the model 13. I have a S&W model 13 blue 3" heavy barrel, round butt. A friend of mine, now retired FBI, had it as an issue sidearm. I am talking a good 30 years (or more) ago. I was immediately struck by the basic, no frills nature of the revolver. Glad it's one of the revolvers I have held onto over the years.

[SWAT Lt.]

I'm curious about the OAL of the .357mag 140gr X-Bullet loaded by Federal. Because its all copper, I wonder how close it is to 158gr.

I gotta be honest, I think it is probably the best .357mag offering going, when talking full house.


I kick myself when I think of those cheap cases of 165gr Remington Core-Lokt and 180gr Winchester Partition Gold that CDNN was selling for dirt cheap many years ago.

A caution about the 145gr Silvertip of today versus yesterday; the old Silvertips were aluminum jacketed, but the Silvertips of today are just the old Super-X JHP painted silver.

The 357 Silvertip never had an aluminum jacket but always had a nickel plated copper jacket (as has the 44 Mag Silvertip). Other revolver and semi auto rounds came with an aluminum jacket but not the magnum rounds.

[JAH 3rd]

+1 on the model 13. I have a S&W model 13 blue 3" heavy barrel, round butt. A friend of mine, now retired FBI, had it as an issue sidearm. I am talking a good 30 years (or more) ago. I was immediately struck by the basic, no frills nature of the revolver. Glad it's one of the revolvers I have held onto over the years.

Just to clarify, I bought my own model 13, not the agent's.

[Wheeler]

Thanks, guys-that's exactly the information I was looking for.

So far, it sounds like the leading contenders are Federal Premium 158 gr, Federal HydraShok 158 gr, Winchester Silvertip 145 gr, and Remington 158 gr.

Since when I carry a revolver my reloads normally consist of 1 Speed Strip carried strong-side in an upsidedown Galco pouch on the strong side hip (immediately ahead of the strong-side holster), 2 Speed Strips carried in a Tactical Tailor Phone Case pouch (normally carried on the weak side hip), and one Safariland Speedloader carried loose in a strong-side jacket or pants pocket, Chuck's comment about the HydraShoks being a bit easier to load due to their shape and lack of exposed lead make excellent sense. Their muzzle velocity (1240) is also close to the S&B's (1263), so that should provide both a similar POA/POI and feel is my thought.

Keep the thoughts coming, guys-great input and much appreciated. Hey, who else but p-f can come up with with relevant .357 magnum effectiveness updates with the credibility of this thread's participants?!

Best, Jon

Is that the same setup you’ll use in the IDPA matches?

[JonInWA]

No. In an IDPA match, I'll use a Speed Strip to administratively load the revolver at the "Load and Make Ready" command (to maintain some sort of familiarity and proficiency with them), but I'll be using a Hogue Universal Speedloader Holder immediately in front of the holster to hold 2 Safariland Comp III Speedloaders and a Tactical Tailor rifle magazine pouch with the bungee retention cord removed to hold the third allowable Comp III Speedloader immediately in back of the holster, all IAW IDPA equipment rules for reloads necessary throughout the scenarios.

The holster I use is the same as for carry, a Kramer horsehide IWB.

The problem with Comp III Speedloaders for normal carry is their bulk makes them very difficult to carry concealed, especially on the strong side of a belt without you looking like you're wearing a colostomy bag. I will carry one loose in a jacket or pants pocket.

Speed Strips are an ideal marriage for revolver concealed carry, but admittedly you're not gonna have lightening fast reloads with them. They're a compromise.

As we discussed in a lengthy thread several years ago, I'll carry a revolver for defensive/duty use in daylight, but not normally in low light/night situations, due to their limited ammunition capacity and the inherent difficulty in the mechanics of unloading and reloading. A 10-17 round semiautomatic just plain makes more sense, is easier to carry concealed (especially reload magazines), and is intuitively easier to unload and reload, especially under stress and in low light.

I thoroughly enjoy and appreciate my revolvers, but I'm also fully aware of their limitations, and will configure my selection of platforms as best appropriate to the use situation involved. I certainly wouldn't feel unarmed with a revolver in most situations, but there are often better tools/choices available, and given the available options that I have at my disposal, I think I'd be a bit of a fool not to make appropriate selection choices.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

After reviewing everyone's input, I checked around locally to see what was available.

Federal Hydra-Shok 158 gr https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/family/premium-personal-defense/personal-defense-hydra-shok/p357hs1#4

Federal "Blue Box" 158 gr JHP https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/family/personal-defense/personal-defense-revolver/c357e

Federal Fusion 158 gr JHP https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/family/fusion/fusion-handgun/f357fs1

No Winchester Silvertips, Speer Gold Dots or Remingtons were available locally.

While I realize that pretty much everything is available on line for delivery, all things being relatively equal I prefer to purchase locally from a store.

My thought is that all 3 Federal cartridges specify a muzzle velocity of 1240 fps, which makes me assume that the only difference of significance is the bullet/bullet configuration.

The Fusion seems to be optimized for hunting/deep penetration, which leads me to immediately discard it from consideration for my purposes as a duty/defensive cartridge.

Any thoughts/recommendations for (or against) the other two Federal 158 gr offerings? The Hydra-Shok seems to be the most readily available, but I also found the "Blue Box" available from several. The 125 gr Hydra-Shok that Lucky Gunner tested seemed to do well in terms of expansion and reasonable, but not excessive penetration.

Conversely, if the experienced feedback is that the Winchester 145 gr Silvertips or Speer 158 gr Gold Dots are significantly better performers than the Federal Hydra-Shok or "Blue Box" offerings, I'd certainly consider getting them from one of the on-line providers.

I much appreciate the feedback and experienced opinions/recommendations this thread has generated.

Best, Jon

[revchuck38]

I'll carry a revolver for defensive/duty use in daylight, but not normally in low light/night situations, due to their limited ammunition capacity and the inherent difficulty in the mechanics of unloading and reloading. A 10-17 round semiautomatic just plain makes more sense, is easier to carry concealed (especially reload magazines), and is intuitively easier to unload and reload, especially under stress and in low light.

I thoroughly enjoy and appreciate my revolvers, but I'm also fully aware of their limitations, and will configure my selection of platforms as best appropriate to the use situation involved. I certainly wouldn't feel unarmed with a revolver in most situations, but there are often better tools/choices available, and given the available options that I have at my disposal, I think I'd be a bit of a fool not to make appropriate selection choices.

I carried a revolver almost exclusively until about a year ago, when I (grudgingly) came to the same conclusion concerning capacity. My Performance Center-tuned M10-8 and M681-2 are now pretty much safe queens. I've been carrying a full-size Beretta PX4 DA/SA, and recently picked a DAO version of the same gun. I just got the slide for the DAO back with new sights installed; assuming the POA and POI are the same, it'll take the place of the DA/SA version and be what I've always wanted - an 18 shot 4" K frame. It just won't have quite the panache. :(

Last Sunday I carried the 681 with the Remington load and didn't feel as defenseless as I was supposed to. ;)

[LOBO]

LOBO - Thanks!

You are most welcome!

[RevolverRob]

What about the 158gr Gold Dot?

That was my thought.

Go to for years in my GP100 was 158-grain Gold Dot. Mostly, because the 145-grain Silvertips have been rare for years

[Rex G]

A bit late to see this, but a number of years ago, probably early/mid Nineties, I went with the 145-grain Silvertip for my fixed-sight .357 revolving pistols, because the point-of-impact was generally acceptable, and because enough real incidents had occurred for the .357 STHP to have a very favorable track record. Another factor was that it was a bit more user-friendly when fired from SP101 and K-Frames, compared to the hot 125-grain loads. The STHP gradually became my default .357 load for everything except my adjustable-sight GP100 revolving pistols. (I did have to drop-down to milder and milder stuff for the SP101 snub-guns, as age, wear, and tear starting affecting my hands, and right wrist/arm.)

I have not tried to buy .357 STHPs recently, due to having a decent, if modest supply, but it is about time to replenish. I checked locally, with little luck, at the usual places, so may have to finally start ordering ammo, for shipment.

[JonInWA]

I've been somewhat surprised at the low amounts and choices of .357 available locally (Seattle Metro area); agreed, 9mm and even .40 are easier to shoot, and semi-autos have reigned supreme for decades, but I still would have expected a moderate demand for .357 defensive cartridges for accumulated legacy revolvers, let alone current ones. In my survey of local retail establishments, the only one that seems to be consistently available in 158 grain is Federal Hydra-Shok. When I spoke with a Federal Tech he specifically recommended the Hydra-Shok over the Federal Blue Box Personal Defense alternative. He also mentioned that in 50 round boxes (code P357HS1G) is't significantly less expensive that the normal retail 20 round boxes (but by the time you factor in shipping and tax a lot of that price advantage is significantly diminished....sigh-it makes more sense if you're ordering in bulk or other cartridges along with it).

Best, Jon

[BobM]

Back in the mid 2000s, I luckily walked into a gun shop that was closing out their 357 Silvertips for $17 a box so I’ve still got five or six boxes left

[LOBO]

I used the below to find .357 mag. 145 gr. Silvertip in stock, https://ammoseek.com/ammo/357-magnum/Winchester-handgun-145grains-

I ordered from the second place down, www.grabagun.com & had the ammo in three days. It was my first time using them, but they did not disappoint.

[RevolverRob]

I've been somewhat surprised at the low amounts and choices of .357 available locally (Seattle Metro area); agreed, 9mm and even .40 are easier to shoot, and semi-autos have reigned supreme for decades, but I still would have expected a moderate demand for .357 defensive cartridges for accumulated legacy revolvers, let alone current ones. In my survey of local retail establishments, the only one that seems to be consistently available in 158 grain is Federal Hydra-Shok. When I spoke with a Federal Tech he specifically recommended the Hydra-Shok over the Federal Blue Box Personal Defense alternative. He also mentioned that in 50 round boxes (code P357HS1G) is't significantly less expensive that the normal retail 20 round boxes (but by the time you factor in shipping and tax a lot of that price advantage is significantly diminished....sigh-it makes more sense if you're ordering in bulk or other cartridges along with it).

Best, Jon

Jon,

I would grab the Hydra-Shoks and go forth. I spent quite a bit of time agonizing over this when I was carrying my GP and 3" M65 regularly. While I prefer Silvertips or Gold Dots, I would take what I could get. We're fortunate, in some respects, that revolvers are able to utilize a variety of bullet types, it makes exposed soft lead, or mixed-medium bullets available that wouldn't work (well) in a bottom-feeder. And case length gives us that dash of extra juice to make those bullets work just as well as modern bonded JHPs from semi-autos that we all love.

I do agree that it is a shame that modern bullets haven't really evolved for the revolvers yet. The closest is the HSTs for .38s and the Gold Dots. The 140-grain Barnes are great rounds, but overkill for 2-legged critters. I'd love to see Federal make a ~145-150 grain HST in .357" size for both .38s and .357s. Such a round should be extremely reliable from a 2.5"+ revolver. Alas, the reality seems to be low demand.

Anyways, I'd confidently carry the Hydra-Shoks or even the blue-box stuff if I knew it shot accurately from my gun.

PS: I do really want to like the Buffalo Bore - 140-grain Barnes Bullet "Tactical" Load - https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=324 - 140-grain bullet at 1250fps should be a sweet spot. I'd love to see some Gel-testing and live medium testing of it.

[Tom Duffy]

On those rare occasions when I actually shoot .357 out of my .357, I like the Federal Vital-Shok. Uses the 140 grain Barnes Expander @ an advertised 1400 fps. I trust the quality control of Federal and figure it has the softest primers available.

[Leroy Suggs]

Lucky Gunner tested both the Barnes and Federal loading of the 140 Expander. Chrono 1352 and 1300 respectively in a 4 inch.
Nice expansion and penetration in the clear gel. (For whatever that's worth.)

I carry it in my 3" SP 101.

[JHC]

Self defense against BEARS! Right?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=349&v=k57xyqXxQfA

[JonInWA]

Jon,

I would grab the Hydra-Shoks and go forth. I spent quite a bit of time agonizing over this when I was carrying my GP and 3" M65 regularly. While I prefer Silvertips or Gold Dots, I would take what I could get. We're fortunate, in some respects, that revolvers are able to utilize a variety of bullet types, it makes exposed soft lead, or mixed-medium bullets available that wouldn't work (well) in a bottom-feeder. And case length gives us that dash of extra juice to make those bullets work just as well as modern bonded JHPs from semi-autos that we all love.

I do agree that it is a shame that modern bullets haven't really evolved for the revolvers yet. The closest is the HSTs for .38s and the Gold Dots. The 140-grain Barnes are great rounds, but overkill for 2-legged critters. I'd love to see Federal make a ~145-150 grain HST in .357" size for both .38s and .357s. Such a round should be extremely reliable from a 2.5"+ revolver. Alas, the reality seems to be low demand.

Anyways, I'd confidently carry the Hydra-Shoks or even the blue-box stuff if I knew it shot accurately from my gun.

PS: I do really want to like the Buffalo Bore - 140-grain Barnes Bullet "Tactical" Load - https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=324 - 140-grain bullet at 1250fps should be a sweet spot. I'd love to see some Gel-testing and live medium testing of it.

RR (and others-thanks, all), at the end of the day, that's exactly what I did; I went with the Hydra-Shoks, which I found at a decent price locally. While the Winchester 145 gr Silvertips are probably "the best," especially given the credibility and experience of those recommending them, I think the Hydra-Shoks will adequately get me through the night, metaphorically speaking.

I also like their slightly pointed bullet nose configuration, which as previously mentioned in the thread should slightly aid in reloading (both from speedloaders and Speed Strips).

And speaking of Speedstrips, I found that their urethane does degrade over time; my two oldest ones, which are probably at least 10-15 years old, had both cracked at their ends, with the tongue of one actually fallen off. Since I'd kept 'em pretty much permanently in the cases I was using, and using my others for match use, I now realize that now I have another piece of equipment to regularly check...

Thanks again for everyone's contributions to this thread; it's all been exceptionally helpful to me. I suspect I'll keep the GP100 set up for 158 gr .357 magnums, and keep my Security Six set up for .38 Special 125 gr +P (Remington Golden Sabers for carry, Remington/UMC SJHP for matches/practice.

And for two days running I've found myself examining GP100 Match Champions (the fixed-sight {Novak} variant)...this likely won't end well...Especially since for some unknown reason I continue to long for the 4" half-lug fixed-sight GP100 that I foolishly (in retrospect, of course) traded off for something I just had to have at the time (to my recollection it was a partial trade for a SIG P210-6)...

This entire process ended up involving a fairish amount of effort and consumed bandwidth for something that I'll likely only compete with (and concurrently carry) for a couple of months at best out of the year. But I think it was worth it, and my confidence and education have increased because of it-hopefully others on p-f benefited as well.

Best, Jon