Shooting without Corrective Lenses

[farscott]

I am the kind of person who needs eyeglasses to do most everything. As in, glasses are the first thing I put on in the morning and the last thing I take off at night. My uncorrected vision is something like 20/200. I am very nearsighted plus my eyes are old enough that my arms are not long enough. There is no way I can find the front sight without my glasses.

That being said, eyeglasses are the kind of thing that could easily go missing or get knocked off in a confrontation. So I have been trying to prepare for functioning without glasses. So far, I have been working on muscle memory and lining up shots by the top of the slide against the practice targets. That works for larger unobstructed targets, but is a total disaster on obscured targets. I would like to try a RMR, but I have not yet done so. I think it may meet my needs.

Are there any techniques that I can use to compensate for my poor vision?

[JHC]

I wish I were 20/200. I was when I was about 20. Got as bad as about 20/400 or more. But always corrected to 20/20 with glasses or contacts. I've used contacts primarily for a long time. I'm 54 so I'm long into the presbyterian (sp?) lol short arm vision thing too. BUT . . . my salvation has been monovision with contacts.

For one, for about 4 years now my vision has shifted less nearsighted. Eye doc says not really unusual with old nearsighted guys. OK, I'll take it. But with monovision one contact is full corrections (non-dominant eye) and my dominant eye gets about 75% corrected. When a near sighted eye gets partial correction it focuses closer than when corrected to 20/20. So . . . . my front sight is sharp. That's huge. Target is a little fuzzy but that's worth a sharp front sight.

I really should shoot with glasses and then without any glasses sometime. I won't be pretty. I'll go to the "chin point" stuff Ken Hackathorn showed us. I shot the hell out of plates on the move in his class that way. Just extend gun just below line of sight, STARE HARD where you want to hit and execute GREAT trigger presses.

[JAD]

I am not a huge fan of verbal compliance for individuals. However, I drill it when I'm practicing every once in a while, because if my vision is compromised target id becomes pretty important and I can't think of how else I'd do it.

[farscott]

Something I have started experimenting with during dry firing is bringing the gun closer to me so that I can find the front sight. I start by executing a normal draw and pulling the gun in and up once I reach low ready. It is slow, but slow is better than hitting someone or something I was not meaning to shoot. It is not optimum, and I feel like I am fumbling towards a solution.

[JHC]

Something I have started experimenting with during dry firing is bringing the gun closer to me so that I can find the front sight. I start by executing a normal draw and pulling the gun in and up once I reach low ready. It is slow, but slow is better than hitting someone or something I was not meaning to shoot. It is not optimum, and I feel like I am fumbling towards a solution.

Good idea. There I might find a place for the very bent elbowed Weaver stance I left so many years ago.

[98z28]

I'm not quite that nearsighted, but it is bad enough that I can not find a front night sight in the dark without glasses or contacts. This is one place that a laser really works well.

I have not tried an RMR on a handgun, but without glasses or contacts I can only see a smeared red blob from the H-1 red dot on my carbine. I doubt that the RMR would be any better. From what I have read that is because of my astigmatism. If you are just nearsighted, the dot may be nice and clear as long as it is close enough to your face.

For me, the laser is still a red blob, but at least it is on the target and not in front of you face. YMMV, but it is the best solution I have found for shooting without corrected vision.

[LHS]

I'm not quite that nearsighted, but it is bad enough that I can not find a front night sight in the dark without glasses or contacts. This is one place that a laser really works well.

I have not tried an RMR on a handgun, but without glasses or contacts I can only see a smeared red blob from the H-1 red dot on my carbine. I doubt that the RMR would be any better. From what I have read that is because of my astigmatism. If you are just nearsighted, the dot may be nice and clear as long as it is close enough to your face.

For me, the laser is still a red blob, but at least it is on the target and not in front of you face. YMMV, but it is the best solution I have found for shooting without corrected vision.

This is exactly why my bedside gun will always have a laser. OP, try some CT Lasergrips for your pistol if available. They really do make a world of difference at night, especially with my glasses off.

[farscott]

Thanks for the information on the RMR and the laser. I am going to give the laser a try. A buddy has one for a SIG P220, so I can give that a try.

[barstoolguru]

crimson trace lasers are a good ones. the CO will send you a free CD if you go on line and order it at their Webb site , its free and has a lot of good tips on home defense with a laser

[farscott]

Today I got to try my buddy's P220 with the laser in an outdoor setting. The interesting thing about his P220 is that it is chambered in 9x19. I had thought it was chambered in .45 ACP, so I was pleasantly surprised. Anyway, back to the shooting without corrective lenses and with a laser.

I first tried shooting with my prescription safety glasses to get a feel for the gun and the laser. The laser's bouncing location on the twenty-five yard target as my finger pressed the trigger showed how much more work I need. That being said, my slow-fire groups were very good, which is the usual for me and a P220. I have always shot them well during slow-fire and very poorly at higher speeds. Even during slow-fire, I had lots of trouble finding the dot on the target, and I kept going back to the front sight to find the dot. This surprised me as I am used to shooting an Ultradot for Bullseye. Not good, but I did not want to judge based on a single session. I also wanted to try the laser on closer targets.

So I tried at about twenty-five feet, still with my prescription safety glasses. I found it much easier to find the dot, and I thought things were looking positive. So I switched my prescription safety glasses for ones with no corrective lenses. And I could not see the laser. No way and no how. The dot was too small for me to find, and I had to index the gun based on the slide. My eyes just could not find the dot in daylight -- and it was cloudy and overcast. I could find the target but not the dot ON the target. When I found the dot, I was not on target as I was dropping the muzzle to find the dot. I was really bummed.

I guess it is back to the drawing board. I did try my G17 and my "bring the gun in to find the front sight" accommodation. I was able to shoot decent groups with this technique, but I need a lot more practice. It feels wrong, and I had trouble with my footing as leaning into the up-close gun messed with my balance. Still, it is the foundation of a technique.

[LSP972]

Farscott,

The red dot sight will provide the solution to your problem. Suggest you check out the several excellent threads on this site regarding RDS-equipped carry pistols, and search other forums. There is a wealth of info out there, but understand that even though this has been done for over ten years, it has just recently become more than a niche project by a few folks. IOW, it is still emerging technology and doctrine.

I have three RDS-equipped Glocks, two 19s and a 30, done by Bowie Tactical Concepts. I got the first one almost two years ago, and have been dabbling with the concept, on and off, since then. Depending on where you are in your "learning curve", adapting to the subtle differences of the RDS will be easy or arduous. IOW, if you are a relatively new shooter, you won't have too much drama learning how to use the RDS. If, OTOH, you've been doing this for 40 years, and as a result have a VERY ingrained way of presenting your piece, etc.; well, you're in for a tough row to hoe. It can be done, but its going to take time and ammunition downrange.

At any rate, I have recently realized I need to get serious with this, as my ability to see the front sight AT ALL is just about gone. And that's big, prominent front sights, like on the HK45C, or an XS Big Dot. I was handling grandson #1's Beretta 92 a little while ago. I could not see those tiny sights, period. Keep in mind, this is WITH my glasses. I haven't been able to see squat without them in years.

The type of astigmatism I have does not respond to the new "miracle surgeries" (lasik, etc.). And now, macular degeneration has entered the picture, so to speak. It can be slowed down, but its already sounded the death knell for me and irons.

But the red dot sight fixes all of that. It has its challenges and drawbacks, sure. But, for me at least, it means the difference between being able to place accurate fire on a target at reasonable handgun distances (out to 50 yards), and having to guess at anything beyond ten yards.

The dot is at arm's length to you. Even without your glasses, you will be able to see it. The big question is, can you make target discrimination decisions without those glasses?

.

I should add, that I can't see the sights with my glasses using the distance vision portion of the lens. I can see them fine using the close-up bifocal... and cannot see anything past the muzzle then. Getting old truly sucks...

.

[GJM]

Shotgun with buckshot.

[farscott]

An RDS-equipped G17 might be in my future, but the target discrimination issue is a huge concern. I also need to think about what I can do to retain my prescription eyeglasses. I may start to use a set of "Croakies" to help keep the glasses with me. I already use them on a set of prescription sunglasses that I use for outdoor work.

Yes, getting old sucks, but the alternative is much worse. I need to investigate the surgical options for decreasing my reliance on prescription glasses.

[JHC]

An RDS-equipped G17 might be in my future, but the target discrimination issue is a huge concern. I also need to think about what I can do to retain my prescription eyeglasses. I may start to use a set of "Croakies" to help keep the glasses with me. I already use them on a set of prescription sunglasses that I use for outdoor work.

Yes, getting old sucks, but the alternative is much worse. I need to investigate the surgical options for decreasing my reliance on prescription glasses.

When I went to "jump school" I had to double the elastic bands on my glasses and winch them in so tight I must have looked like I had a thyroid condition. I did so because on my 1st jump - instead of counting to "four thousand" I was watching my glasses blowing in the wind pulled out away from my face until they snapped back in under my chin.

[UNK]

Im going through the same thing. My first compromise was having a buddy who is a machinist make a sight set for me and this worked for several years. Now I am at the point I think I will try Fiber Optic sights next. Have any of you guys tried this option? FO for daytime and laser for night.

[UNK]

Shotgun with buckshot.

Kind of difficult to CC.

[cracker]

Farscott
Was the laser site of your friends a red laser, If so check these out. My wife has these on hers gun and i will say they are bright and you can see them most of the time. I say most of the time because 1 time on a very bright day with the sun hitting on with paper I could not see the dot, that was the only time. I can still use the iron sites on my handgun but rifle are out of the question, you said it right it sucks to get old. Did you see that,? hear what? can we slow down? my ----- hurts.
Cracker
http://www.viridianlasersights.com/

[mcracco]

Contacts? I started shooting again after a 20 year lapse and found my first hurdle was to find the right corrective lenses. Went through all sorts of gyrations with glasses and wound up with contacts. My eye doc is a shooter so he understood what I needed. I now wear a multifocus in one eye and a fixed in the other and have near perfect vision for near, intermediate, and far. It really is nice not to have to change glasses to suit the task. :)

[JHC]

Contacts? I started shooting again after a 20 year lapse and found my first hurdle was to find the right corrective lenses. Went through all sorts of gyrations with glasses and wound up with contacts. My eye doc is a shooter so he understood what I needed. I now wear a multifocus in one eye and a fixed in the other and have near perfect vision for near, intermediate, and far. It really is nice not to have to change glasses to suit the task. :)

I need to look into this "multi-focus" thing this year. I've had great luck with mono-vision. But multi vision was just recently explained me on line. Neat.

[jkm]

Now I am at the point I think I will try Fiber Optic sights next. Have any of you guys tried this option? FO for daytime and laser for night. When I noticed I was having an issue, I tried FO and like it during daylight. I've also been able to simply change to a different carry gun with a different sight picture, and that has helped too. Never tried lasers.

[farscott]

Sorry for not replying sooner; life got in the way.

Contacts, for me, are currently not an option as my eyes are very sensitive and susceptible to infection. Corrective lenses will be eyeglasses until I have surgery to replace my "organic" lenses. I do have one set of eyeglasses that has my dominant (left) eye focus set to front sight distance and the right side (weak) eye set to distance. That works very well for range shooting.

I have not yet tried a green laser, but I have arranged to try an RDS-sighted gun. It will only be a test as it is an SVI wide-body without BUIS, but it should be sufficient to see what I can and cannot do with an RDS.

[LSP972]

I do have one set of eyeglasses that has my dominant (left) eye focus set to front sight distance and the right side (weak) eye set to distance. That works very well for range shooting.



Sucks for walking around, though... at least, it did for me. If the lasik, etc. works for you, then there ya go. Its not an option for me; ditto contacts, for pretty much the same problems you have.

I finally scored an InSight MRDS (my chosen red dot sight), and should have my USPc up and running with it soon. My two G19s showed me that the concept is viable, but I just could not bring myself to give up the HKs.

.

[farscott]

Figured I would provide an update on my ongoing saga. I was able to shoot a course that meets the Alabama POST requirements for LEOs (I am not a LEO) with and without prescription lenses. For LEOs, a score of 70 or higher on two of three runs is required to pass. The course is as follows: 50 rounds total. 12 at 25 yards, 12 at 15 yards, 14 at 7 yards, and 12 at 5 yards. Targets are "Q" targets. This is a daylight course, scored on a 100 point scale. Not very hard. I shot it all two-handed.

I first ran the course with a 1911 with three-dot tritium sights. On my first run, I wore safety glasses with my latest prescription. Did fine there; scored 92. Should have done better. The test is not very difficult.

Next two runs were without prescription glasses, just safety glasses. The first was with the same iron-sighted 1911. Did horrible. 76. The next was with a 1911 with a nominal 4-MOA red dot, my newly updated Bullseye gun. Did even worse. 68. I literally could not see the more distant targets as anything other than blurs and had to squint hard to see the front sight on the iron sight run. I had a difficult time picking up the dot without glasses and then kept losing the dot on the target. Without the friend acting as RO/SO to help me (thank the heavens for good friends) make sure my shooting was safe, I would not have completed the red dot sight run. I had to index the gun off the left top edge of the slide and then try to find the dot. Not very good at all.

Long story short, my wife has made an appointment for me with a specialist. Time for that lens replacement I have been putting off for the last six years. Needing different prescriptions every six months for the last two years is what is called a clue.

[mongooseman]

The OP may want to try green lasers. The gun shop I part time at has cheap ones that show up well in the daytime at pretty good distances. I stepped out the back door and put one on a telephone pole approximately 50 yards away. Midday in the Georgia summer and it was clearly visible. I can only imagine how one from a quality manufacturer would compare. My eyes find it very difficult to find the red ones in outdoor daylight conditions.

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

What about something like the Trijicon HD or Ameriglo Pro I-dot night sights? Even if the front sight was very blurry, I'd think that the color difference would at least allow you to put the orange "blob" on target. As a guy with normal vision, I've found that the Pro I-dot front has helped to speed front sight acquisition for me.

[StainlessSteel215]

This is a great thread, and something I switch back and forth on constantly. I have a pretty mild prescription for corrective lenses.

I personally use glasses only on occasion, for distance, usually while driving at night. However...most times I shoot without them because I convinced myself that in a pinch, I will NOT have time to fetch my glasses for better accuracy. I have learned now to find my center mass on a paper target at 15 yards....and guesstimate dead center to hit the bullseye. I basically call it "using the force" since it does require trusting my instinct and less on the eyeballs. I am obviously a better shooter with tighter groups when I do wear my lenses.

Thanks for posting this thread. Glad I'm not alone with how I choose to shoot on range trips