View Full Version : Apex VS 2.0 Stock
I am having some trouble deciding whether or not to replace the stock trigger, in my M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm, with an Apex Flatty.
Here are my concerns:
(1) I kinda like up take, wasn't really looking for less. I carry holsterless (I know I know) and the uptake is an added safety. I know the Apex has less, but I see a lot of travel on the trigger dingus so part of me thinks I will still feel safe with it.
(2) There is really only one main issue with the stock trigger. It is difficult to explain, but I'll try - there is a little spot, immediately before the "wall" that the trigger "falls" into as you pull it. Imagine going over a little hump and falling into a valley right at the edge of the wall. Almost like you click the trigger into position but not as pronounced as a click. I don't know if this will be remedied with the Apex. Is the part causing this a part that will be replaced by the kit? Or is it part of the striker and going to be present with a complete new kit?
(3) I know USPSA has declared the trigger g2g in stock class but what about IDPA? Would that trigger kick you up into Enhanced Service Pistol? Or could it be ran in Stock Service Pistol?
Any one who has replaced the 2.0's trigger with one, lemme know how much difference it made. I don't just mean in weight but overall.
Thanks guys.
HopetonBrown
05-24-2018, 07:53 PM
What's "holsterless"?
Larry Sellers
05-24-2018, 08:29 PM
What's "holsterless"?
Ditto, that's more pressing than the type of aftermarket trigger we're after.
Holsterless -
I have not used a holster (off duty) for decades. I have heard all the hypotheticals of what could possibly happen AND have tested those theories and found them (at least for me) to be unrealistic.
Years ago, I took my on/off duty gun (a G23 with a 3.5# connector), cleared it, and tried several different ways to dry fire it while in my waistband. I even pulled my shirt tail through the trigger guard (one of the "what ifs" I've heard so much about) and shoved it back in my waistband. The only way I was ever able to get a "click" was to place my thumb around the backstrap, push my trigger finger through my pants, fish around for the trigger, then press it while holding pressure on the grip. Even that was VERY difficult and well into what I would call "intentional". Since those tests, I have carried this way through all sorts of events including motorcycle crashes. I'm sure some will say it is unsafe but, after 15-20 years of doing it daily without incident, I have to disagree.
ETA - I have been eyeing a few, considering them, mainly just to keep the sweat off my gun but doubt I will ever find one I am comfortable with.
HopetonBrown
05-24-2018, 08:50 PM
Maybe you could hang out at the Defensive Carry forums until you fix yourself, because this is the one place on the gun internet where I shouldn't have to see derp like this.
45dotACP
05-24-2018, 09:26 PM
So...in a circuitous fashion, you are asking if an APEX kit will make your gun less drop safe?
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Bowman_15
05-24-2018, 09:46 PM
http://rcsgear.com/vanguard-2-holster-basic-kit/
Here ya go. Absolute minimalist holster that keeps you from putting a hole in your body that doesn't belong.
scjbash
05-24-2018, 10:00 PM
How many rounds do you have through the gun?
How many rounds do you have through the gun?
680
Everyone else - there were other questions there. Wanna take a stab at those? The "hump/valley" being the important one.
scjbash
05-25-2018, 05:00 PM
680
Everyone else - there were other questions there. Wanna take a stab at those? The "hump/valley" being the important one.
Check to see if the little hump you're feeling is the trigger safety catching the frame. I press pretty high on the trigger and have had that problem with all of mine. A thin file and/or sand paper will radius the corner of the safety just enough to stop it.
Both of my 2.0 triggers, particularly the compact, feel quite a bit different after a few thousand rounds than they did at 680. I'd spend the Apex money on more ammo.
Check to see if the little hump you're feeling is the trigger safety catching the frame. I press pretty high on the trigger and have had that problem with all of mine. A thin file and/or sand paper will radius the corner of the safety just enough to stop it.
Both of my 2.0 triggers, particularly the compact, feel quite a bit different after a few thousand rounds than they did at 680. I'd spend the Apex money on more ammo.
Interesting, I'll look at that, thanks. And yea, I'm in no hurry. I reload and, if I'm not working a lot of OT, try to shoot twice a month. I found out IDPA will not allow aftermarket shoes in SSP, but haven't found out about my local (unsanctioned) tournaments yet.
Glad to hear yours smoothed out after a few K. Now that work has leveled off, I should get up to that number pretty quick.
CraigS
05-27-2018, 06:34 AM
I haven't worked on a 2.0 trigger so can't be too specific but have worked on G19 an M&P1.0. There are several things that happen in different portions of the overall the trigger stroke. One possibility would be that the striker safety plunger is pushed up by a hump in the trigger bar. It may reach the top of it's travel, and therefore the effort needed to move it levels off or declines, just a little bit before the sear starts to move. The striker safety moves in the pre-travel and the sear movement is the wall so, my WAG could explain what you are feeling.
ranger
05-27-2018, 07:42 AM
I had an M&P 1.0 exhibit a trigger issue like you describe. I found a small piece of "plastic" in the "tunnel" under the rear sight when I installed the Apex USB. Issue was gone after installing the Apex USB plus trigger improved. I suspect that small piece of debris was causing the "hitch" in that M&P trigger pull.
I am having great results with my M&P 2.0 Compact with two Apex parts installed with stock springs - the Apex USB and the Apex sear (2.0 9mm uses the "45" sear).
I had an M&P 1.0 exhibit a trigger issue like you describe. I found a small piece of "plastic" in the "tunnel" under the rear sight when I installed the Apex USB. Issue was gone after installing the Apex USB plus trigger improved. I suspect that small piece of debris was causing the "hitch" in that M&P trigger pull.
I am having great results with my M&P 2.0 Compact with two Apex parts installed with stock springs - the Apex USB and the Apex sear (2.0 9mm uses the "45" sear).
Now that is interesting. Appreciate the info. Now you got me wanting to knock that rear sight off and look. You're talking about the hole the plunger rides in, right? I'm guessing USB stands for "something striker block"?
ranger
05-28-2018, 06:56 AM
Now that is interesting. Appreciate the info. Now you got me wanting to knock that rear sight off and look. You're talking about the hole the plunger rides in, right? I'm guessing USB stands for "something striker block"?
Yes, Ultimate Striker Block. https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Details/191853
Sherman A. House DDS
05-28-2018, 09:24 AM
I carry a 2.0 on duty as well, and to date, have about 3.5k through it (need to write it up in the 2k challenge, as the trip from 1500 to 3500 took place in the span of a week through a Dave Spaulding class and in-Service training). I’ve found that the STOCK 2.0 is superior to the Apex 1.0’s (all stock components replaced with Apex parts). I’d put more ammo through it, then settle on something aftermarket if it hasn’t evened out after 2k plus.
Also, on duty guns, I think it’s best to keep it as stock as possible.
civiliandefender.com
Up1911Fan
05-28-2018, 11:27 AM
I carry a 2.0 on duty as well, and to date, have about 3.5k through it (need to write it up in the 2k challenge, as the trip from 1500 to 3500 took place in the span of a week through a Dave Spaulding class and in-Service training). I’ve found that the STOCK 2.0 is superior to the Apex 1.0’s (all stock components replaced with Apex parts). I’d put more ammo through it, then settle on something aftermarket if it hasn’t evened out after 2k plus.
Also, on duty guns, I think it’s best to keep it as stock as possible.
civiliandefender.com
I'm a big fan of the stock 2.0 triggers as well. Only changes to my two 2.0C's and Shield 2.0 are Heinie Sights and the APEX trigger shoe, no internal changes.
ranger
05-28-2018, 11:30 AM
I had multiple M&P 1.0s for carry and competition. I am really loving my M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm with the APEX USB, APEX sear (45), stock springs, and stock trigger.
Holsterless -
I have not used a holster (off duty) for decades. I have heard all the hypotheticals of what could possibly happen AND have tested those theories and found them (at least for me) to be unrealistic.
Years ago, I took my on/off duty gun (a G23 with a 3.5# connector), cleared it, and tried several different ways to dry fire it while in my waistband. I even pulled my shirt tail through the trigger guard (one of the "what ifs" I've heard so much about) and shoved it back in my waistband. The only way I was ever able to get a "click" was to place my thumb around the backstrap, push my trigger finger through my pants, fish around for the trigger, then press it while holding pressure on the grip. Even that was VERY difficult and well into what I would call "intentional". Since those tests, I have carried this way through all sorts of events including motorcycle crashes. I'm sure some will say it is unsafe but, after 15-20 years of doing it daily without incident, I have to disagree.
ETA - I have been eyeing a few, considering them, mainly just to keep the sweat off my gun but doubt I will ever find one I am comfortable with.
Are you this guy ? If not, then “holsterless Carry” aka “Mexican Carry” is a bad idea.
26679
Seriously, Are you running a thumb safety on your 2.0 ? If not please invest in at least vanguard type trigger guard cover. Re: carrying a Glock without a holster, you have simply been luck. I am aware of at least one example of a federal LEO being shot via the gun going off in the waistband while carrying a Glock “holsterless.”
Re: the Apex trigger, many Glock shooters prefer the Apex shoe. If you are getting good results with the factory shoe, rock on. A detail strip of the gun isn’t a bad idea before dropping the cash on Apex parts.
HCountyGuy
05-29-2018, 01:27 PM
You may have had an inordinate amount of luck thus far in not plugging yourself and winding up a newspaper clipping for not carrying in a holster, but luck isn’t something you want to solely bank on when a small goof-up could end in the aforementioned outcome.
Your logic of “it hasn’t happened yet, must not be that dangerous” is akin to playing Russian roulette continuously because you’ve beaten the odds thus far. Everyone’s luck tends to run out.
There is absolutely zero sensible reason not to carry in a respectable holster. None.
You may have had an inordinate amount of luck thus far in not plugging yourself and winding up a newspaper clipping for not carrying in a holster, but luck isn’t something you want to solely bank on when a small goof-up could end in the aforementioned outcome.
Your logic of “it hasn’t happened yet, must not be that dangerous” is akin to playing Russian roulette continuously because you’ve beaten the odds thus far. Everyone’s luck tends to run out.
There is absolutely zero sensible reason not to carry in a respectable holster. None.
You are the second person to mention "luck". I do not believe luck lasts 20 years in a row, thousands of times over and over. I DO believe everyone who shot themselves had one thing in common - a finger on the trigger. Not a shirt tail, not the seam of their jeans, but a booger hook resting on the bang switch. I also am pretty convinced that none of the people saying how dangerous it is have EVER ONCE dry fired a weapon in their waistband. Have you?
That said, I have ordered a holster. Going to give them another day in court, see what happens. Might get used to it, might not but I'll give it a fair shake.
BehindBlueI's
05-30-2018, 11:02 AM
I DO believe everyone who shot themselves had one thing in common - a finger on the trigger. Not a shirt tail, not the seam of their jeans, but a booger hook resting on the bang switch. I also am pretty convinced that none of the people saying how dangerous it is have EVER ONCE dry fired a weapon in their waistband. Have you?
Nope. There are documented cases of guns firing due to objects other than fingers. Most recently on my department it was a key. Multiple witnesses, the shooter's hand was nowhere near his gun, forensics confirmed.
Not properly covering the trigger works right up until it doesn't.
LockedBreech
05-30-2018, 11:23 AM
You are the second person to mention "luck". I do not believe luck lasts 20 years in a row, thousands of times over and over.
A fun trivia fact about the Cold War: For a significant portion of it, the nuclear launch code was set to 0-0-0-0-0-0. We got lucky because nobody ever hit the button. That luck held out for years. That doesn't mean it was a good idea.
I won't pile on, I hope you're able to find a holster that works for you and take the advice in the offered spirit. I used to be very stubborn about car-stowed guns reasoned discussion here showed me I was thinking wrong. We all just want to be better, safer shooters.
I like my 2.0 trigger a lot, to contribute to the topic at hand.
On a more positive note, if you dislike the bulk of a holster, trigger guard covers like the Raven Vanguard are available for the M&P.
https://www.amazon.com/Concealment-Systems-Vanguard-Tuckable-Trigger/dp/B016H5AYI4
On a more positive note, if you dislike the bulk of a holster, trigger guard covers like the Raven Vanguard are available for the M&P.
https://www.amazon.com/Concealment-Systems-Vanguard-Tuckable-Trigger/dp/B016H5AYI4
I was actually pretty mad, when these first came out. I used to make and sell kydex holsters (the irony, eh?) and, right about the time, I stopped doing it..... somebody comes up with an amazing idea that I should've. Would have loved to have been the one that thought of that little guy.
Nah, I went with a Muddy River. Should be here in a few days.
As for the Apex, not doing it. The local tournament DEFINITELY considers that modified and it WILL limit you to the "open" class. I borrowed a weapon with an RMR today to see if I liked it. I DID. So... now the plan is to keep my M&P 2.0 Compact ("Deuces") completely stock AND buy a CZ P10c to host an RMR Type II (so much for the buying freeze). This way, I'll have one pistol for "limited" and one for "open" (as they call it there)
I was actually pretty mad, when these first came out. I used to make and sell kydex holsters (the irony, eh?) and, right about the time, I stopped doing it..... somebody comes up with an amazing idea that I should've. Would have loved to have been the one that thought of that little guy.
Nah, I went with a Muddy River. Should be here in a few days.
As for the Apex, not doing it. The local tournament DEFINITELY considers that modified and it WILL limit you to the "open" class. I borrowed a weapon with an RMR today to see if I liked it. I DID. So... now the plan is to keep my M&P 2.0 Compact ("Deuces") completely stock AND buy a CZ P10c to host an RMR Type II (so much for the buying freeze). This way, I'll have one pistol for "limited" and one for "open" (as they call it there)
Why not another M&P ?
Why not another M&P ?
Thought hard about that. Honestly, still might happen, but I borrowed a P10c and fell in love with the trigger. Bore axis is low, good ergos, just an all round feel good gun.
I'm hoping the platform hopping won't slow down my progress but it just seems like having both would be cool because I was originally trying to decide between the two. Now if SW makes a 2.0 CORE, I might end up going that route.
Thought hard about that. Honestly, still might happen, but I borrowed a P10c and fell in love with the trigger. Bore axis is low, good ergos, just an all round feel good gun.
I'm hoping the platform hopping won't slow down my progress but it just seems like having both would be cool because I was originally trying to decide between the two. Now if SW makes a 2.0 CORE, I might end up going that route.
Word is 2.0 CORE and 2.0 CORE compact are coming soon.
If the trigger is the attraction for the CZ why not just full APEX an M&P 2.0 etc and keep support gear compatibility?
Wake27
05-31-2018, 01:56 AM
A fully Apex’d M&P is a thing of polymer glory.
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Word is 2.0 CORE and 2.0 CORE compact are coming soon.
If the trigger is the attraction for the CZ why not just full APEX an M&P 2.0 etc and keep support gear compatibility?
Well it wasn't just the trigger - the shorter grip was a selling point because it could actually be carried and not just a game gun. CORE 2.0 Compact? Now THAT would be one that got me. No idea on time frame?
I wish guns were more like phones, you can pretty much bank on a Note 9 this September.
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