What would you pay for an intro to pistol shooting class?

[Odin Bravo One]

Working with local LE, I’ve been asked to teach some CCW type courses for citizens under the banner of the area LE agencies.

The course is projected to be a couple (maybe 3) hours on a Friday evening, a full day (8-10 hours) Saturday, and a couple (2-4) hours review and a testing course of fire on a Sunday afternoon. The course will meet the requirements for obtaining a CHL, and each student will have a basic background check conducted prior to admission. This doesn’t add any work on my end, but will take someone’s time for running names and DOBs through NICS.

Our area is poor to say the least. Every child in the local schools gets free lunch because it would cost more to hire someone to take the money from students who don’t qualify for nutritional assistance than they would bring in. ~40 % of the local population lives below the poverty line.

Given the financial realities, and the fact that the target audience isn’t “gun people”, but rather people who are considering buying and/or carrying a gun for defense, we’re looking at cost:benefit ratios, and trying to come up with a number that is affordable and appropriate to the circumstances.

Round count will very likely be less than 150 rounds total, with 25 of those fired as part of the testing process. I’m also considering providing ammo and rolling that into the cost. This is a not-for-profit endeavor, and local LE is providingn the range and training facilities, conducting background checks, advertising, and providing some insurance. Our LLC will provide the training materials and additional insurance for our staff on top of what the City/County provide.

What would you pay for 16 hours of basic firearms training with (and without) ammunition? What about a rental firearm? (To keep it simple it would most likely be a Glock 19 across the board).

[vcdgrips]

Going rate here in MO is 70 to 99 for an 8 hr class with perhaps another 10.00 for the gun rental based on memory and a quick interwebs search. Typically, the student is asked to bring the ammo for the rental gun.

Given that 150 rds of is going to cost somebody 20-30.00 per student, 5.00 in student materials plus misc., you have 35.00ish min. in real costs per student right off the bat.
Even if you are not for profit, given that you are giving 16 hours of instruction, anything under 99.99 would be an absolute bargain. I am really considering the economics of your stated demographic.


I myself would easily pay 150.00 for something like this all day long, particularly if I had some idea as to your training background, experience etc.

[Casual Friday]

The 8hr basic pistol class at the local range here is $149, 2 day is $279 with no rental or ammo provided. They have no trouble selling out classes after mass shootings. During peace time, there is always spots available the day of. We're a middle/upper middle class area and that is predominantly who fills the seats.

[scw2]

I agree with what vcdgrips mentioned above. I had to take a CCW class to apply for a permit last year, and prices were in the $70-100 range for an 8 hour class. The level of instruction frankly sucked, and it was a waste of time except for the fact it was a requirement to get my permit. Rental for a pistol was $10 I believe, with ammo provided by the student. I also agree on the pricing for 9mm being in the $20-30 range.

If you take the $70 price I paid for my class, and add $30 for ammo + rental, I'd say the students would be getting a very good price at $100 or less for a random CCW class of questionable value. For the quality of class that you'd be putting on, which happens to be twice as long, $100 or less would be a steal.

[jc000]

I worked somewhere running a 5hr (4hr classroom / 1hr range) basic pistol / CCW class for $125. In our affluent neck of the woods there didn’t seem to be any issues with keeping the classes filled.

Being sympathetic to people without a lot of disposable income, it would be great to see more intro courses in the $50-75 range. Is it possible that 16 hrs of instruction may be too much for people who are at the start of their firearms exposure? This may help minimize the costs. Also what is the expectation regarding class size?

I think if you could possibly pare the class down to less than 8 hours and keep costs under $100 that would be reasonable but in my opinion (as a cheap ass) if you could make something workable with a $50 cost, plus $10 rental / $10 box of ammo, you’d appeal to a broader pool of people.

Dealing with a good number of new shooters myself, I’ve seen that it’s hard for people without a lot of firearms exposure to see the value in training. Anything that could be done to make the process smooth and painless should be considered, IMO.

[rcbusmc24]

Down here in NC I just paid 75 bucks for a 8 hour CCH permit class that had the minimum 30 round course of fire and written test in order to qualify for my NC permit as my new orders have me staying here in Lejeune and not making my way back up to Quantico or Chesapeake as I had hoped (at least they didn't send me back to CA....). This did not include the cost of the box of ammo but did include range fees, target, NC CCH booklet and Cert cost. There is a outfit down here that runs a Concealed carry development course that I have done a few times and it runs 250 for a two day class, ammo not included. Other than the Marines stationed here, this area is pretty economically depressed as well, with minimum wage and just above jobs being the norm in the area, It is hard to fill a class here, even at a low cost, but I would like to think that offering loaner pistols, ammo and everything else would be a value add for those attending. As for me, I would pay (and have before) a premium for a concealed carry class taught by a knowledgable individual that stays framed in the realities of civilian concealed carry, knowledgably covers legal issues and considerations, actively discourages derp... and has a instructor who demonstrated commitment to student improvement during the course.

Here in NC the class is a requirement to get a permit, but most of the classes are literally permit mills..... the guy teaching mine was defiantly into it for the 75 bucks per student he was getting paid and while he had to follow the provided NC course material his asides were particularly cringe worthy. Most are going to look for the cheapest class they can find though, because all they want is the certificate number to put on their permit application. If this is a not for profit endeavor then perhaps add up the cost of providing the training, targets and ammo, add a percentage to that number and see how many bites you get... I, and most members of this board would probably pay way more for a Sean M carry class that your average gun owner though simply cause we already know the value of what we would be getting.

[Robinson]

Similar to what someone else mentioned, I'm wondering if a 6-8 hour intro class for say $75 with ammo might make sense. Or maybe $50 and they bring their own ammo.

But if a 16-hour class has already been decided on in order to make room for ample lecture time and scoring for evaluation then $150 is more than fair, in fact generous.

[LSP552]

In Louisiana, basic CCW training was basically 9.5 hrs and costs were around $125.

Up here in RI, much more effluent, classes are about $100 for 4 -5 hrs.

It sounds like you are proving much more than would be required as a state minimum for the license. The attendees are extremely fortunate!

Sounds like maybe the local price point might be around $150 -$200? I’d personally pay more, on top of ammo cost. Not sure what Glock rental costs are.

PM inbound.

[Gewehr3]

I have a friend that teaches a course like you describe in a similar rural area. He charges $50 per 8 hr. course. Students bring their own supplies. Also, the local Sheriff's Dept. offers a similar course for $75 a day.

I applaud you for your efforts.

[Totem Polar]

Sean, for 2 to 2.5 day shooting classes with reputable folks having even remotely near your level of operational experience , the real market value back here in the PacNW seems to run from 400-650 or so for 2.5/20hrs, depending largely on materials (up to and including sims, range set up, or junker cars with fresh glass to shoot from within).

On the other hand, a basic 1-day 8-5 CCW with qual—but BYOgat and ammo—is pretty much represented (and sewn up) by these guys that I believe you might know, here:

http://www.centertargetsports.com/course/id-enhanced-ccw-cts-300

A quick look at their offerings gives you an idea of regional pricing. You know the Cd’A area; cars can be anything from junker trucks from the fringes with no tabs to mint ‘63 split window ‘vettes or 488 Ferraris, so it’s all over the map, economically.

From what it sounds like, your neighbors can’t afford you and you know it, so thanks for giving back. I’d strongly suggest condensing down to two days and either lengthening the Friday leg a couple of hours, or just doing Sat/Sun at 8per. It’s not just the dough that working class folks have trouble sparing—three days away from life/work/family/dependents/etc is an exponentially harder sell than a weekend.

Everyone has an opinion, and mine is to keep it to no more than 16 on two days with a probable local market friends and family price of roughly 100/day including student supplies, but not counting your life experience which you are clearly supplying pro bono. Adjust from there as needed to fill seats. Even with the sponsorship intent, anything less than 2 benjamins for 16hours including rental and rounds is a total givaway. Doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t do it for less, but folks need to appreciate it, especially including supplies. That’s a crazy good opportunity for folks.

Seriously though, a class that spans across three calendar days is that year’s vacation for many people (including me, since I blocked out booking work for 2.5+ to take another run at ECQC including craft whiskey and hosting a free-range Canadian in a few weeks, because, everyone needs a vacation).

For an intermediate version of a 2.5 with you, I’d expect to do 4-5 bills depending upon set up, and bring a bucket of my own loaded mags and kit.

FWIW. Sounds like a great opportunity for your local peeps. Let us know how it evolves, if you would.

[okie john]

Working with local LE, I’ve been asked to teach some CCW type courses for citizens under the banner of the area LE agencies.

The course is projected to be a couple (maybe 3) hours on a Friday evening, a full day (8-10 hours) Saturday, and a couple (2-4) hours review and a testing course of fire on a Sunday afternoon. The course will meet the requirements for obtaining a CHL, and each student will have a basic background check conducted prior to admission. This doesn’t add any work on my end, but will take someone’s time for running names and DOBs through NICS.

Our area is poor to say the least. Every child in the local schools gets free lunch because it would cost more to hire someone to take the money from students who don’t qualify for nutritional assistance than they would bring in. ~40 % of the local population lives below the poverty line.

Given the financial realities, and the fact that the target audience isn’t “gun people”, but rather people who are considering buying and/or carrying a gun for defense, we’re looking at cost:benefit ratios, and trying to come up with a number that is affordable and appropriate to the circumstances.

Round count will very likely be less than 150 rounds total, with 25 of those fired as part of the testing process. I’m also considering providing ammo and rolling that into the cost. This is a not-for-profit endeavor, and local LE is providingn the range and training facilities, conducting background checks, advertising, and providing some insurance. Our LLC will provide the training materials and additional insurance for our staff on top of what the City/County provide.

What would you pay for 16 hours of basic firearms training with (and without) ammunition? What about a rental firearm? (To keep it simple it would most likely be a Glock 19 across the board).

What's the insurance situation? Are you covered under the agency's policy? When I worked on ranges we required anyone teaching in our facility to carry $1,000,000 in liability coverage.


Okie John

[Shoresy]

It’s not just the dough that working class folks have trouble sparing—three days away from life/work/family/dependents/etc is an exponentially harder sell than a weekend.

This is a very good point.

Personally, when I did the NC CCW class, I didn't own a pistol. I was in a better financial position than most of your target audience, but getting a friend to loan me one (buying meant a Pistol Purchase Permit or CCW) was a pain in the butt. I would imagine that loaner/rental firearms will make a substantial difference in accessibility for the people you're reaching.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

What are your actual costs?

Ammo, gun rental, targets, range fees, misc.

How many do you think would take it?

How much to you want for profit (if you want a profit)?

Start with an economic model first. My opinion, worth crap, is that I would figure on covering costs and making $100 bucks (if I were interested in making some but not exhorbitant profit).

[Jay Cunningham]

a couple (maybe 3) hours on a Friday evening, a full day (8-10 hours) Saturday, and a couple (2-4) hours review and a testing course of fire on a Sunday afternoon

The course will meet the requirements for obtaining a CHL

each student will have a basic background check conducted prior to admission

Round count will very likely be less than 150 rounds total, with 25 of those fired as part of the testing process.

not-for-profit endeavor

local LE is providing the range and training facilities, conducting background checks, advertising, and providing some insurance.

Our LLC will provide the training materials and additional insurance for our staff on top of what the City/County provide.



What would you pay for 16 hours of basic firearms training with (and without) ammunition? What about a rental firearm? (To keep it simple it would most likely be a Glock 19 across the board).


$240 byo ammo or $285 ammo provided. Extra $25 for rental firearm.

A good 20% discount would be $230 ammo provided plus $20 rental firearm.

An even $250 all-inclusive.

[RevolverRob]

Average cost of the required 16-hour course block for an IL CCL is $200.

That doesn't include ammo, gun rental, or actual shooting instruction, beyond extremely basic CCL requirements.

So...anything $200 or less would be a great deal here in Chicago. In more rural areas, I imagine that dropping to $125-150.

[MistWolf]

For liability reasons, if you offer range rental pistols, you should have the range provide the ammo.

[ubervic]

Sounds like you're trying to do right by some local folks and are trying to figure out how to manage the effort. Good on you.

Having said that, it seems to me that asking about how to go about that here----a forum with mainly highly motivated and experienced shooters who must have a decent if not good degree of discretionary income----might not yield answers that reflect the budgets and motivators of your target group of prospective students. If that population is as financially compromised as you suggest, they will not devote more than $95 to any such training, if that much. Their larger priorities are probably very basic, such as putting food on the table and keeping a roof over their heads.

Again, good on you for trying to do right by folks. Please do not take my words as discouragement or disrespect by any means.

[Odin Bravo One]

From what it sounds like, your neighbors can’t afford you and you know it, so thanks for giving back. I’d strongly suggest condensing down to two days and either lengthening the Friday leg a couple of hours, or just doing Sat/Sun at 8per. It’s not just the dough that working class folks have trouble sparing—three days away from life/work/family/dependents/etc is an exponentially harder sell than a weekend.

Seriously though, a class that spans across three calendar days is that year’s vacation for many people (including me, since I blocked out booking work for 2.5+ to take another run at ECQC including craft whiskey and hosting a free-range Canadian in a few weeks, because, everyone needs a vacation).


The time issue is certainly not one to be trivialized. Which is why I broke it up over three days instead of two. I'm not willing to condense a course to less than 16 hours. I can't in good conscience put my signature to anything saying someone has demonstrated any level of proficiency in less time. It's not even the time so much as it is very difficult to cover the bare minimum of what I feel needs to be covered in a course that assumes zero prior experience.

And if we didn't allow Sunday AM for church, we would not have any students. Irrelevant if the students attend church or not............no agency around here will sponsor an event that cuts into church time.


What's the insurance situation? Are you covered under the agency's policy? When I worked on ranges we required anyone teaching in our facility to carry $1,000,000 in liability coverage.


The City/County will cover the insurance, but I carry $10,000,000 for "just in case".


What are your actual costs?

Ammo, gun rental, targets, range fees, misc.

How many do you think would take it?

How much to you want for profit (if you want a profit)?



None.
None.
No idea. There are plenty of places that offer such classes, but none that are sponsored by LE, and this one is unique in that it is sponsored by all three of the local LE Agencies.
None.


For liability reasons, if you offer range rental pistols, you should have the range provide the ammo.

Anyone using a rental will be required to use ammunition provided. For liability issues you mention.

My bigger reasons for considering providing ammo are:

Bubba Loads- The only thing cheaper than a cop is two cops. The only thing cheaper than two cops is Bubba. Having trained a handful of civilian oriented courses, I've seen these Bubba Loads, and watched people waste an entire weekend unfucking their gun after feeding it some bullshit they built in their basement the night before class without any QA/QC.

Economy- I can buy in bulk, and pass those savings onto the students at cost. but broken down into smaller lots appropriate for the course. Another option I like better is to have the agencies foot the bill for the ammo, and they can worry about recovering their costs, and leave me out of it............but the agencies aren't in much better financial shape than most of the population.

I'm just trying to find the bottom end of what it can be done for, since training shouldn't be something only hobbyists, people with extra disposable income, or the government can afford.

[Totem Polar]

The time issue is certainly not one to be trivialized.

Points taken. Sounds like you have a good handle on the needs of your area.




...since training shouldn't be something only hobbyists, people with extra disposable income, or the government can afford.

Copy. With all that sponsorship, it’s quickly boiling down to ammo, targets, supplementary reading material, fleet gun maintenance, sets of eyes/ears and advertising. You could certainly do it for, say, $99 all in—noting the list of sponsors/agencies making it possible in the promo lit. There has to be some stake for participants, otherwise there’s always going to be some people who won’t value it.

So long as we are on the topic, any hard feelings if random hobbyists or people with extra disposable income mysteriously sign up/show up?

;)

[BN]

Here in South Eastern Ohio, the basic class to get a CCW is commonly 8 hours for $100. Some places provide 22 pistols for everybody.

Quality of the classes vary widely. :(

Quality of the pistols also varies widely. One class I saw a Heritage Rough Rider, a Hi Point and a Scandium 44 mag.

Good luck on your endeavor.

[okie john]

Sounds like you've got a good handle on things, and that you're doing the Lord's work out there.

Best of luck, and keep us posted. Should be some good stories come out of this one...


Okie John

[H&KFanNC]

The first thought that comes to mind is that 150rds to non-gun people is a bit much. Not including those that may have physical issues.

I would say break it into 2 classes, Intro to Handguns and a CHL course. Both 8 hours, over however many days, and 50rds per class.

$50/class plus ammo being bring your own or $10. Having what this class will cost in materials, ammo, gun etc etc will drive your base cost of looking for a non-profit Org or cost + $20 to help purchase better training aids/loaner guns.


What you are trying to do for your community is awesome. I love that the local LEO’s are partnering with you.

Good Luck!!!


Edit: After reading some posts that were written while I was typing, I’d still stick with charging a bit extra to cover furthering your class. Having extra $$$ will always make future growth easier. Especially once your local population wants to further their basic training. Use the money to buy some steel targets. Who doesn’t like shooting steel??

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[Chance]

The only thing I could suggest is to charge whatever amount of money it would take to make sure you're not taking cash out of your own pocket.

For folks in that income bracket, $100 is no shit, anxiety-inducing, food-on-the-table money. So it's not really a question of what the course is worth, because it's worth far more than what those folks could afford.

Sorry I have nothing useful to add.

[Nocturnalis Discipulo]

The only thing I could suggest is to charge whatever amount of money it would take to make sure you're not taking cash out of your own pocket.

For folks in that income bracket, $100 is no shit, anxiety-inducing, food-on-the-table money. So it's not really a question of what the course is worth, because it's worth far more than what those folks could afford.

Sorry I have nothing useful to add.

I would second this Chance absolutely. I live in a pretty similar area with no costs to you and everyone volunteering their time I would try to go at $50 or so. That would be with ammo and rental gun included. If you make it much more you will lose a lot of people. That should be enough to get people invested in it while not pricing out many who are dedicated. If you can then reinvest the money you take in above the cost of ammo to help you continue offering training for people in your community would be a great thing.

People in this income bracket have a hard time affording guns, gear, and ammo. I am sure that many people here would be interested in taking a class from you, doubly so if it would be some tactical philanthropy. I don’t know if you are interested in doing classes or lectures but I am sure we would be able to help make sure that the people who needed the help were supplied good gear.

[olstyn]

MN basic carry permit classes run around $100, sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less, and include zero shooting instruction - it's purely a class in legal requirements and responsibilities. The shooting proficiency test is generally a case of bring your own gun and ammo, and round count and content of that test varies from instructor to instructor, as there is no set requirement in MN law other than that you must demonstrate proficiency. The definition of proficiency is left up to the instructors. In my case, last time I took the class, it was $100, I had to bring my own gun and ammo, and the shooting test was 30 rounds and felt too easy. (All 30 rounds were shot at a silhouette target at 7 yards, and while a shot timer was used, the allowed times were laughably high.) I've heard of some instructors making it much harder, and some making it much easier.

Regardless, I think that if you do a course that includes actual shooting instruction and training in addition to the classroom legal stuff at $100 or under, you're giving people a very real bargain. The $50 some others have suggested is basically giving it away. Whatever you end up deciding to charge, I hope your community appreciates the gift you're giving.

[jwperry]

These are the price points that put beginner asses in seats around here. Add a free lunch and you can push the price up an extra few $$.


I have a friend that teaches a course like you describe in a similar rural area. He charges $50 per 8 hr. course. Students bring their own supplies. Also, the local Sheriff's Dept. offers a similar course for $75 a day.

I applaud you for your efforts.If you're looking to introduce them to guns that they might actually buy, I'd look at something that's closer to $300.
Shield, SD9, Ruger American, etc..

I have friends who do pretty well for themselves, yet won't justify $350 for a decent LE trade in gun for their primary firearm.

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[Surf]

In my AO the public is mandated to take a basic firearm safety course (w/live fire) or a hunters safety course (no live fire) to obtain a permit to acquire a handgun. This is not a concealed carry course as that does not exist. The course is six hours total. Four hours of classroom, to include safety, handling and current laws and 2 hours of live fire training. Instructors supply everything, paperwork, targets, venue, firearms, and ammunition. Live fire is generally 50 rounds max. Costs go anywhere from $100 for non-profit groups, to around $150.

I think reasonableness of pricing has a lot to do with the instructor(s) and what the local market will bear. I generally steer as far clear as I can in teaching this type of class, and I only do it for friends/family or new private clients. I do a full 8 hours and go way beyond the minimum when I do it.

[pangloss]

The state operated public range near me (central Mississippi - Turcotte) offers one day classes for $17.66. They have a level 1 and level 2 class. I'm not sure what the round count is, but I think they provide some pistols and limited ammunition for people to try different weapons. I've been on the range once when some recent students showed up and the rangemaster disappeared for a couple of minutes and returned with a big box o' pistols and some ammo. The concealed carry class at the same range is about $100. I think students are expected to bring their own guns and ammo for that class.

The instructor is retired military and just really loves helping people become better shooters. I know he personally bears part of the costs because he once mentioned buying pistols for other people to try.

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[TCinVA]

Working with local LE, I’ve been asked to teach some CCW type courses for citizens under the banner of the area LE agencies.

The course is projected to be a couple (maybe 3) hours on a Friday evening, a full day (8-10 hours) Saturday, and a couple (2-4) hours review and a testing course of fire on a Sunday afternoon. The course will meet the requirements for obtaining a CHL, and each student will have a basic background check conducted prior to admission. This doesn’t add any work on my end, but will take someone’s time for running names and DOBs through NICS.

Our area is poor to say the least. Every child in the local schools gets free lunch because it would cost more to hire someone to take the money from students who don’t qualify for nutritional assistance than they would bring in. ~40 % of the local population lives below the poverty line.

Given the financial realities, and the fact that the target audience isn’t “gun people”, but rather people who are considering buying and/or carrying a gun for defense, we’re looking at cost:benefit ratios, and trying to come up with a number that is affordable and appropriate to the circumstances.

Round count will very likely be less than 150 rounds total, with 25 of those fired as part of the testing process. I’m also considering providing ammo and rolling that into the cost. This is a not-for-profit endeavor, and local LE is providingn the range and training facilities, conducting background checks, advertising, and providing some insurance. Our LLC will provide the training materials and additional insurance for our staff on top of what the City/County provide.

What would you pay for 16 hours of basic firearms training with (and without) ammunition? What about a rental firearm? (To keep it simple it would most likely be a Glock 19 across the board).

If you want some assistance putting some of these on, holler. I'll see what I can do. I have family not too far from you.

Based on my read of the area, cost would need to be under $100 for you to see numbers in participation.

[David S.]

This may not work for you, but it might work for someone.

I've been tossing around the JUCO night school model. You could spread the classroom portion over a few 2-3 hour weeknight evening classroom blocks and then run a half day (or whatever) live-fire lab on the weekend. To graduate, they would have to attend all the required training blocks within an approved time frame of say a month or two. Add in some electives, like a gun selection class, revolver class, medical, whatever.

[Duces Tecum]

Legally Required: Is a class required for a CCW? If so, are there already classes available? What are your competitors charging? If CCW class is not required for licensing, how likely is it that poor folks will somehow find the money and decide that decide to spend it on a class?

Not Legally Required: It's difficult to provide the service you are thinking about if the class is not legally necessary and the people are poor. But it's not impossible. The man who raised me in San Soo retired and moved to a mountain community where there were already a couple of struggling martial art studios scattered about. After settling in he resumed teaching and soon had more students than he could accommodate. But he had no overhead, enjoyed the work, and taught for free. It might be that your class would be viable as a charity but not a business. Sometimes that's acceptable, depending.

In any event, Sean, I wish you good luck in this.

[Odin Bravo One]

For those who don’t know, or don’t remember what my particulars for intermediate/advanced pistol or carbine course, I had a max student limit of 16 per class with a 1:4 instructor/student ratio for 16 hours of instruction, and the cost was set by the host (locations varied in additional fees), but my rate was $2500 per day, which usually worked out to $350-400 per student for a two day course, which was generally along the lines of what Jack and I did for the members of PF.com in PA a couple of years ago.

Again, I’m not doing it for a business. We have a business (LLC) for the advantages such a piece of paper provides, but I wouldn’t teach this class for the money. Or rather, I won’t teach any firearms related class for money. I mean, I collect a whopping $24k a year pension/disability......... obviously we don’t need the money.......The reason this is being considered and I’m crunching the numbers is because I truly believe that poor people shouldn’t be excluded from having access to quality training, and as many of already mentioned, this type of class for the target demographic generally suck. There are no shortages of classes being offered within a 25 mile radius, but none that are sponsored as a community service provided for residents by their local LE community. While it meets the requirements for a CHL, it’s designed for a new shooter, or one without any previous formal instruction.

So I’ve come up with the following general guidelines:

-8 students max
-16 hours total, spread out over several days, with the classroom instruction over two days during the week (Tu/Thurs) and range skills building Saturday, with refresher and testing the following week. Homework will also be assigned on T1 and will be due on Test day.
-150 rounds of 9mm will be provided in the course fee of $60. If a student chooses not to shoot 9mm, or wants to bring their own factory ammunition, the cost will be $40.
-The classroom will cover general safety and handling, and work into dry drills covering fundamentals of marksmanship. Classroom session 2 will be the legal aspect of carrying concealed, and use of force taught by the Commonwealth Attorney. Range day 1 will consist of dry fire drills, and live fire intro into safe handling/marksmanship drills. Range day 2 will consist of additional dry fire, some refresher, and two opportunities to pass the final exam.
-There will be two certificates awarded upon completion; version one is certificate of attendance for someone who completed the entire course and didn’t get booted over a safety violation but failed to pass the practical exam. Version 2 is for those who attended the entire course, didn’t get booted for safety, and successfully passed the skills test. They will get a certificate of successful completion. The first will meet the minimum requirement for a CHL, and the second can be used as verification of skills, much like LE uses with their COF to demonstrate competency. The semantics and language of the two different certs came from the Commonwealth Attorney, so I’m going to assume he knows what he is talking about since he charges people for unlawful use of firearms and related criminal indictments on a fairly regular basis. Each cert will also contain an explanation of the language used.
- Once the exam is complete, we will provide a handful of popular carry guns (G19, G42, G43, M&P 9mm, M&P Shield, etc) some with accessories such as lasers, MRDS, WML, holsters, etc. for familiarization fire so those who are curious about a particular firearm has the opportunity to put a magazine through one, and have had at least basic training to be able to note the various difference, advantages, and disadvantages each piece carries with it. Ammunition for this event will be provided at no cost to the student.
- Students who complete the course will also be offered private or small group instruction at a reduced rate if they should choose to elevate their skill level.
- We will offer a Women’s only version of the course every few months, with a handful of woman Adjunct Instructors/RSOs.

Thanks for everyone taking the time to provide input. I appreciate and consider all of your points.

For those who have offered assistance, also much appreciated. I will certainly not hesitate to take you up on your offers when we get to the stage of this endeavor. We’re just not quite there yet. We still have numerous closed door sessions with the City Council, County Board of Supervisors, all three LE agencies (and working to get the Staties on board), and the Commonwealth Attorney. Once that is all hashed out, it has to go public, and survive the local governmental processes before we can commence.

The three department heads of the local LE believe an optimistic start date would be after October 1.

Anyway, thanks again for your input.

[jc000]

This is an amazing service you are offering and I would love to support it anyway I can. Really inspiring!

[Guerrero]

Can P-F members take this class for double the cost? 'Cause I would totally pay that.

[scw2]

Can P-F members take this class for double the cost? 'Cause I would totally pay that.

Same. Plus, I have at least a few friends/family that would also be a perfect demographic for an introductory class, and they would be able to afford a higher price. Assuming this wouldn't steal seats from local students, I'm wondering if the higher rate might allow you to offer scholarships to local students, invest in the staff or materials and equipment for future classes, etc.

[Odin Bravo One]

We have to get it off the ground first. We still have some sizeable obstacles to overcome, most notably city Council types who take their positions entirely too seriously.........

[Robinson]

You're a good dude for doing this.

[JM Campbell]

We have to get it off the ground first. We still have some sizeable obstacles to overcome, most notably city Council types who take their positions entirely too seriously.........

I’m capable of sponsoring at least 1-2 spots a month, say when and where/how you’d like the funds.


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[David S.]

Under the circumstances, I wonder if it’s worth running it as a non-profit....

[Hambo]

Sean, that's fucking awesome. :cool:

[Odin Bravo One]

Under the circumstances, I wonder if it’s worth running it as a non-profit....

Our LLC is not set up as a Non-Profit, and we specifically elected not to for a variety of reasons.

[mmc45414]

I truly believe that poor people shouldn’t be excluded from having access to quality training
I agree, the person working the midnight shift at Sac-O-Suds needs a pistol and skills more than I do.

Is there an application cost for the CHL? Since this is a cooperative LE effort perhaps the application fee might be bundled into the class. Some of it might be specified by law but if the issuing agency has any latitude maybe they can help offset the cost of training, and help insure people follow through with the permit. Like if the license fee is $75, and the Sherriff can agree to do it for $25 for graduates, you could probably create a training and CHL bundle that costs $100 and everybody wins, people get trained and they have a county more populated with trained people. And when people finish the class they don't have to wait three more paydays before they can get their license.

There is a bit of a parallel here in Ohio with motorcycle licensing, if you take the comprehensive weekend MSF course that is offered by the industry you do not have to do the riding test (which is rather silly, weaving through tight cones).

[Odin Bravo One]

Pretty sure it’s like that just about everywhere with the bikes. At least it had been everywhere I’ve had a MC endorsement.

I’ll certainly bring it up, but I’d guess the County Sheriff will balk at that to an extent, since it is revenue for them, whereas this training is not....... but perhaps I can talk him into a discount or other perks to get people to take the course and obtain their permit........

[Odin Bravo One]

These are the price points that put beginner asses in seats around here. Add a free lunch and you can push the price up an extra few $$

Don’t know how I missed this nugget....... very good idea. I would bet if I had some local business sponsors, I could advance everyone’ Agenda to an extent.

Chic-Fil-A does a lot of things like this, as well as some of the other, locally owned/operated food joints. I’ll have one of the local businesses where I have some influence to use their influence to get local sponsors on board for catering lunch on the full day range session.

Great idea. Thanks.

[mmc45414]

I’ll certainly bring it up, but I’d guess the County Sheriff will balk at that to an extent, since it is revenue for them, whereas this training is not....... but perhaps I can talk him into a discount or other perks to get people to take the course and obtain their permit........
Yup, that would be typical, but the net loss is probably noise, cause the people that would be getting the discount would most likely never be getting a permit if there wasn't a streamlined and discounted option, but that is how people tick.

I know you don't train for money, but you used to train for money, and it probably be good to establish a perceived value for some of this, potentially/especially if you are doing anything that might include helping any of the sworn people. I would expect there might be people that agree with you and might support your effort, but would be cautious of being scrutinized for "giving something away". But those people might be willing to link their agreement to an exchange of service for a highly knowledgeable and extensively trained person, a person that is a new member of the community, delivering training to their officers. Training that has a market value of $XX,000, equivalent to alternative classes that would require travel costs of $XX,000 and tuition costs of $XX,000.