DHS transitioning to 6.5 Creedmoor

[HCM]

https://www.armytimes.com/off-duty/gearscout/2018/05/08/homeland-security-shooters-are-dumping-308-for-this-long-range-round/

Homeland Security shooters are dumping .308 for this long-range round


INDIANAPOLIS ― The Department of Homeland Security plans to get rid of all its 7.62mm NATO, or .308 caliber, long-range rifle ammunition and replace it with an intermediate caliber that Special Operations snipers will field next year — the 6.5mm Creedmoor.

Speaking Monday during a panel at the National Defense Industrial Association Armament Systems Forum here, Devin Patterson, a DHS engineer, told the audience that the switch would give their “tactical observers,” civilian speak for snipers, a more accurate round for their sensitive security missions.

And because the dimensions of the cartridge are not drastically different, the change mostly involves just a barrel change.

“It’s an easy swap,” Patterson said.

Not the best article but an interesting development.

[schüler]

Wonder what fed/mil orders will do to ammo and component availability.

On the flip side it should have a positive effect on .264 bullet development.

[TAZ]

Surplus 308 stuff gonna be available fir civilian purchase??? I could handle being hampered by a good precision 308 rifle.


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[Ski85]

Surplus 308 stuff gonna be available fir civilian purchase??? I could handle being hampered by a good precision 308 rifle.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNope. Fed LE is prohibited from selling old guns. They're required by law to be destroyed.

If your talking surua ammo supply, they'll shoot it up before getting rid of the rifles.

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[Matt Helm]

The Creedmoor is a fine cartridge round. It , when loaded with a 120 gr. bullet . it out performs the .308 (with a 150 gr. pill) by a measurable margine.

When and how often did the .308 fail , at the hands of well trained and justifiably skilled marksmen ?
6.5 CM. the new toy, with it's new Fanboys. Seems like the story goes on and on.

Here it is again, Ladies & Gentlemen; bureaucracy restocking it's stores at our expense.

[HCM]

Surplus 308 stuff gonna be available fir civilian purchase??? I could handle being hampered by a good precision 308 rifle.


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No. On the DHS side I'm sure it will either get shot up or transferred to another agency still using .308.

The. Mil will still have 308 for years to come.

The user group for match /precision .308 is pretty small in both DHS agencies and .mil.

[HCM]

The Creedmoor is a fine cartridge round. It , when loaded with a 120 gr. bullet . it out performs the .308 (with a 150 gr. pill) by a measurable margine.

When and how often did the .308 fail , at the hands of well trained and justifiably skilled marksmen ?
6.5 CM. the new toy, with it's new Fanboys. Seems like the story goes on and on.

Here it is again, Ladies & Gentlemen; bureaucracy restocking it's stores at our expense.

So when did manual transmission vehicles fail ? Can't waste money on them new fangled automatic transmissions.

Technology advances, and equipment which is actually used wears out and has to be replaced periodically.

Have you ever worn out a handgun or rifle and had to have it rebuilt or re-barreled? I have and it is a regular occurance in the groups which will be using these rifles. Just like the military they train regularly and run gear hard. This, combined with operational wear and tear means precision guns get rebarreled and rebuilt every few years with or without a caliber change. Swapping a 308 barrel for a 6.5 CM barrel on existing guns is a simple and cost effective fix.

Speaking of cost, the DOD and SOCOM are going to 6.5 CM with or without DHS. Given DHS already tries to buy common items off existing DOD contracts as a cost saving measure (testing, selection and contracting all cost money) staying with what the DOD is purchasing in bulk is actually a cost saving measure in the long run.

On another note, this switch is for precision / long range rifles which are normally running 168 or 175 grain ammunition in .308, not 150 grain.

[TAZ]

Nope. Fed LE is prohibited from selling old guns. They're required by law to be destroyed.

If your talking surua ammo supply, they'll shoot it up before getting rid of the rifles.

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No. On the DHS side I'm sure it will either get shot up or transferred to another agency still using .308.

The. Mil will still have 308 for years to come.

The user group for match /precision .308 is pretty small in both DHS agencies and .mil.

Way to go and kill my Friday afternoon. Thanks!!


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[LittleLebowski]

The Creedmoor is a fine cartridge round. It , when loaded with a 120 gr. bullet . it out performs the .308 (with a 150 gr. pill) by a measurable margine.

When and how often did the .308 fail , at the hands of well trained and justifiably skilled marksmen ?
6.5 CM. the new toy, with it's new Fanboys. Seems like the story goes on and on.

Here it is again, Ladies & Gentlemen; bureaucracy restocking it's stores at our expense.

I like less drift and less drop with less recoil. I want the shooting world to move onto 6.5. Change doesn’t bother me.

[TAZ]

The Creedmoor is a fine cartridge round. It , when loaded with a 120 gr. bullet . it out performs the .308 (with a 150 gr. pill) by a measurable margine.

When and how often did the .308 fail , at the hands of well trained and justifiably skilled marksmen ?
6.5 CM. the new toy, with it's new Fanboys. Seems like the story goes on and on.

Here it is again, Ladies & Gentlemen; bureaucracy restocking it's stores at our expense.

6.5 Creedmore is better than just a bit. The 140 grain pills have a BC in the .650 range while the 175 grain 308 pills are stuck in the .50 range. There is a lot to be gained with that kind of efficiency increase.

Best part is that the 2 actions are interchangeable. All you need is a new barrel and ammo. DHS will actually save $$ by going with what DOD is doing. They can consume DOD left overs till their barrels are shot out and then purchase in bulk with DOD orders. Staying with 308 means they end up being a low volume island.

There is a lot of government wasted going around, but I’m not sure this ranks as such.

[TGS]

Is DHS preempting individual agency purchase of 7.62 precision rifles/ammunition with this, or is it simply an ammo contract that agencies can buy from?

[HCM]

Is DHS preempting individual agency purchase of 7.62 precision rifles/ammunition with this, or is it simply an ammo contract that agencies can buy from?

I think the latter. It will likely be a rolling transition as guns go back for service and get re-barreled or new uppers in 6.5.

[Mjolnir]

Nope. Fed LE is prohibited from selling old guns. They're required by law to be destroyed.

If your talking surua ammo supply, they'll shoot it up before getting rid of the rifles.

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They don't need to sell the rifles - just rebarrel them.


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[Mjolnir]

I like less drift and less drop with less recoil. I want the shooting world to move onto 6.5. Change doesn’t bother me.

If we could get extended barrel life with it, too, it would be a true trifecta.

Let me dream this shit, bro. Don't tell me it eats barrels faster than .308Win.

I
Ain't
Listenin'

[emoji41]


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[Ski85]

They don't need to sell the rifles - just rebarrel them.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWasn't trying to imply they would need to see them, just answering his question hearing the possibility of Fed LE surplus.

Can't exist with the current law.

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[BJJ]

Well, since nobody has said it yet...

THIS IS AN OBVIOUSLY A MOVE TO PREPARE TO SEND GUN OWNERS TO FEMA CAMPS!!!!!

All joking aside, I love this forum and the level of discussion.

[Suvorov]

It’s all cool and all - but I’m just wondering how many shots DHS is planning to take at the ranges that the Creedmoor significantly out performs the .308?

[HCM]

It’s all cool and all - but I’m just wondering how many shots DHS is planning to take at the ranges that the Creedmore significantly out performs the .308?

You need to be a little more specific. There is no “DHS” like people think from watching 24.

The most likely practical applications at longer ranges would be USSS Protection operations, USBP BORTAC operations and some specialized USCG applications.

Big empty desert and big oceans make for long range shots. Not a common thing, but it happens.


Easier math and wind calls at distance are not the only advantages of 6.5. It’s also a bit easier on the shooter in volume such as ain a training enviornment.

[Hambo]

Asked and answered.