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JV_
03-08-2011, 07:05 PM
I'm interested in getting a 9mm 1911. I'm not interested getting a tinkering gun, which probably rules out most 1911s. I want one that just works, and I don't want to spend $3K on a custom gun.

What are your recommendations? This one caught my eye - S&W:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766209_-1_757754_757752_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

Kyle Reese
03-08-2011, 07:14 PM
How much are you willing to spend?

JV_
03-08-2011, 07:15 PM
It depends on what I have to spend to get something that works. $1500?

SecondsCount
03-08-2011, 07:45 PM
I have a 2002 era Springfield Loaded 9mm that I picked up used and it shoots well. The mags that came with it are Metalform and seem to do the job. Most of the time I give it to my younger son to shoot or a newbie shooter that might be recoil sensitive.

STI seems to be a fairly popular brand of 9mm 1911s but I have no experience with them or S&W. I think Dawson Precision can setup an STI how you would like and give it a tune up before sending it to you.

TAP
03-08-2011, 07:46 PM
Someone asked this question to Larry Vickers in his 1911 operators class last August and his response was a Wilson Combat 9mm.

JV_
03-08-2011, 07:51 PM
a Wilson Combat 9mm.Unfortunately, I don't want one that bad. It's just too much money.

SecondsCount
03-08-2011, 08:05 PM
Someone asked this question to Larry Vickers in his 1911 operators class last August and his response was a Wilson Combat 9mm.

That SpecOps 9mm is pretty sweet. Pricey but sweet.

LittleLebowski
03-08-2011, 08:23 PM
I believe that the Spec Ops 9mm is around $1800. Close to your budget

JV_
03-08-2011, 08:25 PM
I believe that the Spec Ops 9mm is around $1800. Close to your budget

I wasn't finding them that cheap. Got a link?

LittleLebowski
03-08-2011, 08:50 PM
Asked WC to take look at this thread.

VolGrad
03-08-2011, 08:54 PM
Someone asked this question to Larry Vickers in his 1911 operators class last August and his response was a Wilson Combat 9mm.

He called it a "pussycat".

TCinVA
03-09-2011, 07:58 AM
LAV's general advice on 9mm 1911's is:

- one of the most fun weapons you can own
- as a whole, 9mm 1911's are problematic weapons with a bad track record
- getting the right magazines for them is hugely important if you want one to work
- they should be considered "fun" guns, not guns you would carry for serious social purposes.

I've had the chance to fire LAV's Wilson 9mm, and it's a sweet pistol. When the guy with the American Pistolsmith's Guild award wants a 9mm 1911 and sees fit to go out and buy a Wilson, that seems to indicate that they might just have their stuff dialed in on buying one.

If I was incurably enamored with a 9mm 1911, that's the route I would go. Expensive, yes...but probably the best bet at getting a pistol that will keep up with you, JV.

JV_
03-09-2011, 08:03 AM
Thanks guys, I appreciate all of the feedback.

This is definitely for a fun gun, not a carry gun.

SteveK
03-09-2011, 09:22 AM
I can't say anything bad about my Springfield loaded. After rounding the sharp edges on the target sight and tweaking the followers on my Springfield mags, I can't recall ever having an issue in well over 10,000 rounds. As stated, it's only a fun gun, but it has been problem free.

LittleLebowski
03-09-2011, 10:24 AM
LAV's general advice on 9mm 1911's is:

- one of the most fun weapons you can own
- as a whole, 9mm 1911's are problematic weapons with a bad track record
- getting the right magazines for them is hugely important if you want one to work
- they should be considered "fun" guns, not guns you would carry for serious social purposes.



I remember him saying that and an hour later, a Springfield 9mm 1911 started barfing.

Odin Bravo One
03-09-2011, 11:36 AM
I have a SA 9mm.

It is a fun gun. And despite TG's annoyance, I shot it for 1/4 of a day at the AFHF COI. I even managed a sub-7.0 (barely) run with it. That said, it was re-worked from factory condition by a competent gunsmith which added a few hundred to the price tag. Since it was a gift, that few hundred was added to $0, making it easier to swallow. It also does not get run hard, compared to other guns. I use it often for newer shooters, or some who have shown some recoil sensitivity in past range sessions.

I use the Wilson 9mm mags, and quality ammo, and haven't had any issues with it. The factory mags I have are decent, and are mostly trouble free. I have a couple that suck, and I have marked them as such, but I still use them because I am not ever going to carry it for real, and they only hiccup every so often. For horsing around, plinking, having fun, introducing new or younger/smaller shooters it is great. But I would not consider it a serious pistol by any means.

I had an STI double stack 2011 9mm for about a month, sold it for a $300 loss, and considered myself lucky to have found someone willing to pay that much for it. I figured I was the only idiot out there. Apparently not. STI = Absolute piece of shit.

The Nighthawk Ladyhawk is a very nice version of a 9mm 1911. A friend bought one for his wife, and we spent an afternoon putting a can of 9mm through it to "break it in" before he gave it to her. He just wanted to "be sure" it was 100% reliable before he gifted it to her. Very considerate of him. It proved to be 100%, and was very pleasant to shoot. She loves it, and makes sure she embarrasses us with it any time we take her to the range with us. Yet her go to gun for SHTF is a G17. She is not a "gun gal", and her arguement for the 17 is that it holds more bullets.

Certainly Wilson Combat makes quality stuff. Can't argue that.

But if it is just for fun, I don't think I could pay that much for the WC or the NH.

JulieG
03-09-2011, 01:15 PM
I'm interested in getting a 9mm 1911. I'm not interested getting a tinkering gun, which probably rules out most 1911s. I want one that just works, and I don't want to spend $3K on a custom gun.

What are your recommendations? This one caught my eye - S&W:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766209_-1_757754_757752_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

I have been VERY impressed w/ my S&W 9mm 1911 right out of the box. I had one re-worked by Pete Single. It's GORGEOUS and smoooooth, but for a back up gun last year, I just had an out of the box stock gun.

Note - I am sponsored by S&W, but this is also one of my all time favorite guns to shoot.

jetfire
03-09-2011, 03:15 PM
I've had two 9mm 1911s, one is a Commander sized Para LTC that for whatever reason continues to work, although it won't feed certain types of hollowpoints. I can't recommend it though specifically because it took some work to make it run right.

If I wanted a 1911 in something other than .45, I'd probably go with a .38 Super. 1911s tend to me more reliable with the longer .45/.38 Super cartridges.

Rappahannock
03-09-2011, 08:11 PM
Have you considered a Colt Defender in 9mm? I have found it almost flawless (I tossed the one aftermarket magazine that bothered it) and use it for EDC. You didn't mention if you wanted a full size or not, but if you want or need a small 1911 you should consider this design.

JV_
03-09-2011, 09:31 PM
I'd have a hard time picking a .38 Super, since I don't currently reload. Plus, all of my handguns are 9mm (except for the AA Glock slide). I don't like stocking a lot of different kinds of ammo.

I think I'd prefer a full size gun, but I'm flexible.

I'll check out the Colt. Thanks.

CK1
03-10-2011, 02:34 PM
I run an STI Trojan 9mm and I highly recommend taking a hard look at one if you do indeed want to take the plunge on a 9mm 1911. After literally years of hating them down (9mm 1911's in-general) I'm coming up on 2000rds without a failure, 1000 since that last cleaning, and one-whole groups at 15 yards have become routine, super-fun.

It should be noted that I'm pretty much a total Glock 9mm die-hard. As far as a carry/duty/combat pistol is concerned, the G17 (NOT Gen4) is my all-time go-to favorite and I consider them to be every bit as much of a "classic" as any 1911, Luger, or Hi-Power and as a working-gun I far and away prefer one over any of the newcomers like the M&Ps or any H&K... I say this to hopefully demonstrate that my tolerance for a "moody" pistol is quite low.

That said, the 9mm 1911 is awesome, super enjoyable to shoot and far easier on one's wallet to run than a .45, but not without it's caveats. I chose the Trojan as it's the 9mm 1911 that I've seen put through the most hardship, and the one I've most often seen in the hands of enthusiasts who've tried most of them and would surely buy a better one if there really was one to buy. The Trojans have a pretty large following amongst IDPA and USPSA shooters as they don't cost a fortune (about $1K) and they have a few things that most of the other sub-$2K offerings do not have: ramped barrel, barrel-slide-frame fitting on par with the best available, and fire-control parts that are legit and will last with real use. There are many out there that have seen thousands upon thousands of rounds.

As has been mentioned, there are some Springfield's out there with ramped barrels that are pretty nice too, but they tend to be much more hit-or-miss, some are great, many are not, and the fire-control stuff isn't in the same echelon as STI's, plus, STI has been building 1911-style guns in calibers other than .45 longer and in more volume than anyone.

For a long time there weren't really any 9mm 1911's out there under at least $800 or so, and the quality in the more affordable ones tended to be spotty, so that may have a little to do with their reputation as being finicky, although IMOHO, many of the far higher-priced custom guns from Ed Brown and Wilson have added to that rep somewhat by maybe being built more to appease an 1911-snob/aficionado's eye for fit-and-finish more so than to really be run hard... checkering sharp enough to lemon zest your mango salsa with is nice, but a slide that moves like it's on ball bearings is really what's important, and that's what the Trojan's deliver for a grand or more less than the other's.

The thing with 9mm 1911's that seems to mess people up the most is that they're not a good platform for someone who isn't into or doesn't have the patience to pay attention to how they're working/feeling and dial them in a little bit. Their timing is the thing, you can't skimp on mags and you need to get the gun's slide speed matched up with how your mags feed; recoil springs on out-of-the-box guns are usually around 12lbs (maybe to seem "tight" in the shop?), but pretty much anybody who runs one lands on a 9lb or 10lb spring. The object is you are helping to balance out the physics of having a round with a smaller recoil-impulse having to move a slide with the same mass as a bigger .45 would have to move, and still having the energy to extract and feed reliably... once you've got it set up right it's a beautiful thing. The ramped barrel is kind of like insurance, the feed ramps are steep and are just really there to guide in rounds that for one reason or another didn't end up as in-line with the chamber as you would normally hope for, pretty much a necessity IMO as you're dealing with a shorter OAL round than the much longer OAL .45, and since the whole design isn't scaled-down the space in both the mags and in the breech can be your enemy if things start to "roam" around during cycling.

So, hopefully without scaring you off, I'd just say there's a "science" to it that isn't really all that hard to figure out, but more than some are up to. Just like any 1911, like LAV has said, you won't be able to just treat 'em like a lawnmower like you would a Glock, but it's worth the effort and honestly my gun runs well enough that I wouldn't feel worried if I had to carry it.

JV_
03-10-2011, 08:13 PM
CK1 - Thanks for all of the details.

I've got a lot of thinking to do; it's a lot of money for something that seems like a big gamble.

CK1
03-10-2011, 08:54 PM
CK1 - Thanks for all of the details.

I've got a lot of thinking to do; it's a lot of money for something that seems like a big gamble.

Yeah, no doubt, when you factor in mags and holsters and such it can get expensive quick. That said, it really is a pleasure to shoot one that's dialed in and it's less a gamble and more like taking out a Ferrari instead of the tried-and-true F-150. I end up telling guys all the time that as a "fun gun or game gun" it's pretty hard to beat; the same slight mistake that'd have you off the paper at 25 yards or so with a Glock will land maybe an inch or 2 left with a nice heavy crisp-triggered 1911, a nice SA trigger on a heavy light-recoiling gun can really make you feel good about yourself :)...


Not to completely change the subject on you, but if you're looking for something that'll do most of the good things a 9mm 1911 will do without the drama and in a gun that can honestly be run hard, carried and used for legitimate SD work, and won't bleed you dry, might want to check out a Shadow variant from the CZ custom shop, they're fantastic and born for 9mm, IMHO the ergos are the best out there.

1911Nut
08-20-2011, 10:06 PM
If you are open-minded about gun size, I recommend the Springfield EMP. This is not a down-sized 1911. It was designed around the 9mm cartridge from the ground up. Quite accurate and reliable, Quality workmanship, and great Springfield customer service if needed. Welll worht looking at.

mnealtx
08-20-2011, 10:39 PM
I remember 9 x 23 Win being sorta popular a few years back...is it still in the running as an alternate to the 9mm / 38 super 1911?

fuse
08-21-2011, 01:50 AM
Dan Wesson is another option.

I would personally have a tough time with idea of 10+ 1 in a full size 9mm, and would opt for one of the double stack guns, even if it took more work to run well.

Then again I lust nightly over Nighthawk's offering.

fuse
08-21-2011, 01:57 AM
I remember 9 x 23 Win being sorta popular a few years back...is it still in the running as an alternate to the 9mm / 38 super 1911?

I believe this was mainly used when making major power factor was much more difficult than it is currently.

Tamara
08-21-2011, 09:34 AM
I remember 9 x 23 Win being sorta popular a few years back...is it still in the running as an alternate to the 9mm / 38 super 1911?
Sadly, 9x23 Win is deader than Elvis.

A shame, too, really. .38 Super or 9x23 could both launch a 147gr bullet at supersonic velocities; with a heavy .355" bullet tailored to operate at those speeds, it would probably offer very good downrange performance and you could probably get... what? 19? 20? of 'em into a G20/21-sized package...

Georgia Arms used to offer a .38 Super with a 147gr Gold Dot at 1200fps...

DocGKR
08-21-2011, 09:38 AM
Of course the problem is that the GD 147 gr was not designed to operate at that velocity...

Tamara
08-21-2011, 09:54 AM
Of course the problem is that the GD 147 gr was not designed to operate at that velocity...
Yup. I'm not sure any heavy .355" projectile is.

I was just speculatin' on an alternate universe where 9x23 caught on for some unknown reason...

Heavy-for-caliber bullets at 1100+fps seem to remain the province of revolvers and beat-your-gun-to-death 10mm loads. Conversely, I remember those GA 147gr loads as being quite pleasant to shoot in a steel 1911, certainly no worse than .40 S&W duty loads from a polymer service auto, and thinking "It's kind of a shame this idea never caught on..."

irishshooter
08-21-2011, 10:12 AM
love my Springfield EMP. its a compact so may not be the based for IDPA/IPSC but its a great carry gun and shoots incredibly well. never a hiccup through mine with about 4K rounds or so through it. can get it for about 1K or so.

mnealtx
08-23-2011, 06:43 PM
Sadly, 9x23 Win is deader than Elvis.

A shame, too, really. .38 Super or 9x23 could both launch a 147gr bullet at supersonic velocities; with a heavy .355" bullet tailored to operate at those speeds, it would probably offer very good downrange performance and you could probably get... what? 19? 20? of 'em into a G20/21-sized package...

Georgia Arms used to offer a .38 Super with a 147gr Gold Dot at 1200fps...

Thanks, Tam. Shame about the round dying out.

jlw
08-23-2011, 10:23 PM
I have had the opportunity to shoot two 9mm 1911s. Once was a Colt worked over by the folks at Clark. The other was also a custom from Harrison Precision. I am not a 1911 guy in the least, but these were very fun to shoot, and they got me to look strongly at getting one. I had it narrowed down to one of the STI models, but in the end I didn't figure extra scratch was worth it.

1986s4
08-25-2011, 12:11 PM
I've owned two, both Springfields. Both worked well but I never really tested them with high round counts and such. I believe STI makes two single stack versions, the Trojan and Spartan. The Spartan is a cheaper version made on a cast Philippine made frame and slide. I found my SAO CZ 75 did everything I needed it to do in a competitive arena.