92 and NATO

[Ballistic_RT]

Are there any issues running NATO spec ammo equivalent in pressure to +P in a standard new production 92? Non-brig slide to be specific. Given the design intent and lineage of the 92 series i doubt it, but have seen reports of slide developing cracks from extended use of hot ammo.

[azerious]

Are there any issues running NATO spec ammo equivalent in pressure to +P in a standard new production 92? Non-brig slide to be specific. Given the design intent and lineage of the 92 series i doubt it, but have seen reports of slide developing cracks from extended use of hot ammo.

Negative, just make sure you have the newest locking block and you will be fine. It's what it was made to shoot :cool:

Slide cracks were on Over pressured UZI ammo at like 9mm +P++

Cliff notes:
Don't worry about it

[Ballistic_RT]

Negative, just make sure you have the newest locking block and you will be fine. It's what it was made to shoot :cool:

Slide cracks were on Over pressured UZI ammo at like 9mm +P++

Cliff notes:
Don't worry about it


Thanks. I always shoot NATO spec when training, so wanted to check about any future issues.

[TiroFijo]

Not all NATO loads are equal... it allows for mild loads too, and most of current 9 mm NATO loads are not even close to SAAMI +P.

[Ballistic_RT]

Not all NATO loads are equal... it allows for mild loads too, and most of current 9 mm NATO loads are not even close to SAAMI +P.

The current NATO load i train with is equal to Speer GD +p.

[PNWTO]

The current NATO load i train with is equal to Speer GD +p.

Which offering is that?

To echo @azserious, don't worry about it. 92s and other modern, reputable 9mm pistols will chew through +P.

[Ballistic_RT]

Which offering is that?

To echo @azserious, don't worry about it. 92s and other modern, reputable 9mm pistols will chew through +P.

German manufactured nato. MEN 124gr

This is based off velocity info submitted betwen the two.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

The Beretta recommendation is to change your slide rebound spring every 5,000 rounds or every 3,000 rounds if you use mostly +P ammo.

[Trooper224]

Change the springs and locking block per Berettas recommendations and your gun will probably outlive you.

[e_stern]

There is no issue.

I would recommend proper PMI and pre-emptive parts replacements. Do not let something fail.

Recoil spring every 3k rds IMHO and locking block every 10k. It can handle more, but if you want the gun/system to last a lifetime it's better to shorten the interval to avoid even the slightest potential of stressing it.

[Kyle Reese]

German manufactured nato. MEN 124gr

This is based off velocity info submitted betwen the two.MEN is relatively soft shooting stuff. You'll be just fine.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[revchuck38]

German manufactured nato. MEN 124gr

This is based off velocity info submitted betwen the two.

FWIW, I've chronographed MEN NATO spec ammo from my CZ-75, which should be fairly close to what you'd get from your B92. Average velocity for five rounds was 1148 fps. For context, Winchester NATO spec ammo went 1164 fps and PPU NATO spec went 1185 fps from the same gun. I haven't chronographed GD 124 grain +P, but HST 124 grain +P went 1179 fps, also from the same gun.

[TiroFijo]

The current NATO load i train with is equal to Speer GD +p.

In this video, this ammo clocks close to 1140 fps out of a 4.952 barrel. You cannot simple equate pressure with velocity, but this is likely not SAAMI +P, all reloading manuals have loads that equal or exceed this within normal SAAMI pressure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=jh6Ss87z3dg

[Rock185]

I haven't tested the MEN, but have chronographed Winchester and IMI 124 NATO ball in a variety of pistols, revolvers and 16" carbines. No matter the barrel length, the Winchester NATO tended to average approx. 3-5% slower than the IMI NATO. I know that 9MM NATO is probably not often used in revolvers, but just included revolver data for any that might be curious. This is just a few of the guns I tested with Winchester and IMI NATO ammo.

The IMI 124 grain NATO ball produced the following results:

S&W Model 940 revolver with 2" barrel:-1110 FPS

Ruger SP-101 revolver with 3" barrel:---1218 FPS

Ruger revolver with 4 5/8" barrel:--------1305 FPS

SIG P226 MK25 with 4.4" barrel:---------1188 FPS

SIG X-5 with 5" barrel:--------------------1240 FPS

Marlin carbine with 16" barrel:------------1344 FPS

[LangdonTactical]

Velocity often has very little to do with chamber pressure. The bullet weight and the burn rate of the powder used has a much greater impact on pressure. For example, manny IPSC/IDPA/USPSA guys that load their ammo to just meet power factor with 147 are running +P+ pressure. The super fast burning powder and the heavy bullet at a lower velocity are what makes for a very soft shooting round.

A little bit of an overcharge can lead to big problems.

[TiroFijo]

Velocity often has very little to do with chamber pressure. The bullet weight and the burn rate of the powder used has a much greater impact on pressure. For example, manny IPSC/IDPA/USPSA guys that load their ammo to just meet power factor with 147 are running +P+ pressure. The super fast burning powder and the heavy bullet at a lower velocity are what makes for a very soft shooting round.

A little bit of an overcharge can lead to big problems.

That is true. However, most modern NATO 9 mm ammo is loaded with "normal" powders for this caliber, not small doses of fast powder and heavy bullets as your example. Exception may be some real hot ammo or some intended for artic use.

It is easy to check the powder charge and bullet weight, and measure the muzzle velocity. If the powder charge is what you'd expect for that type of bullet and velocity, the pressure is not there, or at least not enough to be of concern for the guns. Nobody makes 9 mm powder that produces a lot of extra pressure for normal velocity. What wears modern pistols is the recoil impulse, not the little extra chamber pressureof normal ammo.

Thanks to current popularity of short barrelled 5.56 carbines, NATO 9 mm "superloads" have largely disappeared... regarding muzzle energy, the standard is exceptionally lax. And the current use for 9 mm is pistols, not pistol caliber SMGs that want to extend their range because there is nothing else available.

According to STANAG 4090, the test barrel is 7.85", the muzzle energy must be between 400 and 600 ft·lbf, and bullet weight between 108 and 128 gr.

This means that a humble SAAMI spec 115 gr 9 mm load that has about 1130 fps in a 4" barrel, but probably does about 1270 fps in a 7.85" barrel (with 412 ft-lbs) meets the NATO spec.

Most loads are hotter than that, but I doubt there are any 9 mm NATO loads with 600 ft·lbf in current use.

A SAAMI +P spec 124 gr 9 mm load that has about 1210 fps in a 4" barrel, but probably does about 1350 fps in a 7.85" barrel (with 502 ft-lbs) is right in the middle of the NATO spec, energy wise.

[Rock185]

TiroFijo, Just came across your comments here. I agree, given a breeching system adequate to safely contain the pressure, it's recoil impulse that beats up pistols.

BTW, I don't have a 7.85" barrel, but do have a 5.9" 9MM. In the 5.9" barrel Winchester 124 NATO averages 1244 FPS, IMI 124 NATO 1286 FPS. Speer 124 +P Gold Dot averaged 1290 FPS in the 5.9" barrel. Within my humble experience, IMI 124 NATO and 124 +P will produce approximately the same velocity in equal barrel lengths. Tested in the same barrels, Winchester 124 NATO will usually produce 3-5% less velocity than IMI NATO or 124 +P.