The Truth Behind Federals HST 124+p Ammo

[veteran-USMC]

Gentlemen:

I own an H&K VP9 and looking for a proven 9mm round for home defense. The round I am considering is Federals HST 124+p! For many years South Bend, Indiana police used Corbons 40 caliber 135gr. with outstanding
results. I have read that South Bend is using Federals 124+9 9mm with similar results as the Corbon 40 cal. 135gr.. Please note that my shooting skills are very good --I just want to have a darn good ammo to up my chances of living another day. Does anyone have any knowledge on police depts. using Federals HST 124+p and the results the police are having with this ammo?

Other ammo suggestions are invited.
Thank-you for your time & attention

SEMPER FI!

[jeep45238]

It's good stuff. I run 124 HST in my revolver and 147 HST in my 226 (standard pressure for both).

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4337-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Duty-and-Self-Defense-Ammo

[Jason M]

The 147gr HST is also a proven performer. It was exceptionally accurate in a VP9 that I had for a short period of time.

[Leroy Suggs]

I believe I remember Dr. Gary Roberts saying the HST 124+p is one of the best defense rounds available.

[HCM]

The late American Rifleman writer and former African professional hunter Finn Agaard told us "the truth" decades ago when he observed that "shot placement is 90% of killing power."

Pick any of the loads tested and recommended by DocGKR in the ammo section sticky that run reliable in your gun and shoot to POI.

My agency currently issues HST 180 grain 40 and Speer 124 grain +p good Dot. They both work. Most LE Agencies will have alternate duty loads tested and approved in case of supply issues. We have issued Winchester Ranger when HST and Gold dot were temporarily unavailable.

In general Gold Dot, HST, and Ranger are good to go. If it passed the FBI test protocols buy what you get a deal on and worry about practice / shot placement.

What are you shooting the round from ? Most LE duty loads are optimized for duty sized guns. Speer makes "short barrel" gold dot loads optimized for short barrel guns like G43s and Sheilds.

[HCM]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4337-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Duty-and-Self-Defense-Ammo


6/1/16

When comparing well designed duty handgun ammunition, there are minimal differences in penetration depths and temporary cavity effects, as noted below in the gel shots by Doug Carr:



As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense.



Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.

The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber bonded 124 gr +P JHP (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester 124 gr +P bonded JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P PT
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Speer G2 147 gr PT
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Speer Gold Dot 165 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Hornady Critical Duty 220 gr +P JHP
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

Notes:
-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, Corbon loads using Barnes XPB bullets, etc…)

-- Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.

----------------------------------------

Basically all the standard service calibers work when using good quality ammunition.

Here are some useful resources:

http://www.winchester.com/Site...-SWFs/law_bullit.swf
http://winchesterle.com/SiteCollecti...20Protocol.pdf

http://le.atk.com/wound_ballistics/l...omparison.aspx
http://le.atk.com/resources/videos.aspx
http://le.atk.com/resources/technical_bulletins.aspx


------------------------------------------

The keys are:

-- Cultivate a warrior mindset
-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.

[witchking777]

I believe I remember Dr. Gary Roberts saying the HST 124+p is one of the best defense rounds available.

I remember reading that while the 124gr+p Gold Dot was better than the 147 gr version,the opposite is true with HST.

[LOBO]

What are you shooting the round from ? Most LE duty loads are optimized for duty sized guns. Speer makes "short barrel" gold dot loads optimized for short barrel guns like G43s and Sheilds.

I believe I remember Doc saying something to the effect that Speer's short barrel 9 mm 124 +P Gold Dot is the same as the "non-short barrel" 124 +P Gold Dot, but that the other calibers in the short barrel line up can differ.

[Nephrology]

I remember reading that while the 124gr+p Gold Dot was better than the 147 gr version,the opposite is true with HST.

It's very much a question of splitting hairs. In practice, all of the loads on DocGKR's list are for all intents and purposes of equal quality.

I go with Speer/ATK products (GD, HST) because I have greater faith in their QC than Remington & Winchester based on my personal experience

[blues]

Everyone respects the good doctor...but so few follow his prescription:


Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.

Poor man. It must be like pulling teeth trying to get his message across.

[HCM]

I believe I remember Doc saying something to the effect that Speer's short barrel 9 mm 124 +P Gold Dot is the same as the "non-short barrel" 124 +P Gold Dot, but that the other calibers in the short barrel line up can differ.

I was actually thinking about the Gold Dot G2 147 which has has noticeably poorer performance out of short barrels.

[Kyle Reese]

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/collections/ammunition/9mm

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[veteran-USMC]

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/collections/ammunition/9mm

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk Many thanks for the LINK

[Kyle Reese]

Many thanks for the LINKYou bet.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[Rock185]

From everything I have seen, the 124 +P HST in published gelatin tests looks to be one of the best performers out there. I've not done my own gelatin tests, but have tested the ammo in variety of guns for functional reliability and chronographed velocity. The ammo has been functionally reliable in at least 10 different semi-auto pistols, revolvers, and carbines I've tested it in. Velocities ranged from 1166 FPS in a 3.5" compact semi-auto pistol, to 1351 FPS in a 16" carbine.

That being said, I have to agree with the late Mr. Aagaard. It's shot placement. I've attended my share of autopsies. When fired from pistols, sometimes hollow points expand, sometimes they don't. Shot placement trumps all else......ymmv

[veteran-USMC]

From everything I have seen, the 124 +P HST in published gelatin tests looks to be one of the best performers out there. I've not done my own gelatin tests, but have tested the ammo in variety of guns for functional reliability and chronographed velocity. The ammo has been functionally reliable in at least 10 different semi-auto pistols, revolvers, and carbines I've tested it in. Velocities ranged from 1166 FPS in a 3.5" compact semi-auto pistol, to 1351 FPS in a 16" carbine.

That being said, I have to agree with the late Mr. Aagaard. It's shot placement. I've attended my share of autopsies. When fired from pistols, sometimes hollow points expand, sometimes they don't. Shot placement trumps all else......ymmv Shot placement is King

[LOBO]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the real (chronographed) difference between the 124 gr standard & the 124 gr +P load from 3.5" to 4" barrels?

[blake_g]

Everyone respects the good doctor...but so few follow his prescription:



Poor man. It must be like pulling teeth trying to get his message across.

I see what you did there... a dentist joke...

[blues]

I see what you did there... a dentist joke...

Nothing gets by you, Blake. ;)

[FNFAN]

IIRC NYPD uses 124 +p Gold Dot and it works very well for them. Las Vegas Metro PD uses it with very good results. It's my 9mm defensive ammo choice.