Affordable AR for rural area.

[Colby]

Im looking for an affordable general purpose AR. I live in a semi rural area in Oregon so honestly most likely use will be an occasional coyote but I want something dependable that could be used for home defense. I’m thinking m&p sport optics ready with Leupold mark AR 1.5-4. I’m no expert so wanted to throw it out there if some of you guys have a better solution I’m all ears.
Thanks

[leathermaneod]

I love my PSA rifle so far. Don’t have many rounds through it yet, about 200, but it’s been flawless with cheap steel cases ammo and the fit and finish is great! The upper and lower fit very well with no slip. It’s a freedom barrel with all the features I wanted, free float m lok rail, mid length gas system, full auto bcg, bolt that is marked hp/mpi, their EPT trigger. Full disclosure, I had to center the gas block when I received it bc it wasn’t perfectly at 12 o’clock, probably would have worked fine though. I also had to get the charging handle replaced bc the latch pin hole was out of spec and the pin was loose. They took good care of me on that though, all I did was email them with my order number and a description of the problem and they put a new charging handle in the mail. The rail is only secured by clamp screws at the bottom, and I did have it move on my a bit, but I tightened it down and used some loctite made specifically for such purposes and don’t expect to have any issues going forward. The barrel isn’t 100% perfectly center in the rail, just a touch closer to the bottom than the top, I’m talking like 1mm difference if that. Most probably wouldn’t even notice, but I’m a perfectionist lol. All in all I am very impressed for the price I paid. Their daily deals are great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Casual Friday]

Im looking for an affordable general purpose AR. I live in a semi rural area in Oregon so honestly most likely use will be an occasional coyote but I want something dependable that could be used for home defense. I’m thinking m&p sport optics ready with Leupold mark AR 1.5-4. I’m no expert so wanted to throw it out there if some of you guys have a better solution I’m all ears.
Thanks

Colt 6920 or an M&P 15 would fit that bill.


I love my PSA rifle so far. Don’t have many rounds through it yet, about 200, but it’s been flawless with cheap steel cases ammo and the fit and finish is great! The upper and lower fit very well with no slip. It’s a freedom barrel with all the features I wanted, free float m lok rail, mid length gas system, full auto bcg, bolt that is marked hp/mpi, their EPT trigger. Full disclosure, I had to center the gas block when I received it bc it wasn’t perfectly at 12 o’clock, probably would have worked fine though. I also had to get the charging handle replaced bc the latch pin hole was out of spec and the pin was loose. They took good care of me on that though, all I did was email them with my order number and a description of the problem and they put a new charging handle in the mail. The rail is only secured by clamp screws at the bottom, and I did have it move on my a bit, but I tightened it down and used some loctite made specifically for such purposes and don’t expect to have any issues going forward. The barrel isn’t 100% perfectly center in the rail, just a touch closer to the bottom than the top, I’m talking like 1mm difference if that. Most probably wouldn’t even notice, but I’m a perfectionist lol. All in all I am very impressed for the price I paid. Their daily deals are great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

200 rounds isn't even remotely close to the round count needed to call something flawless. Fit and finish is also pretty irrelevant to what he's looking for.

[leathermaneod]

Colt 6920 or an M&P 15 would fit that bill.



200 rounds isn't even remotely close to the round count needed to call something flawless. Fit and finish is also pretty irrelevant to what he's looking for.

You’ll notice I was careful to say that I only had 200 rounds through it and that is what I’m basing my experience on. You’ll also notice that I was careful to outline the minor issues I did have.

Fit and finish may not be import to you, but it is to me and many others. As for what is important for the OP’s purposes, I’ll let him be the judge of that. I offered my experience with a rifle I thought might be of interest to him.

You seem to be making it your mission to discount my experience and put PSA down, care to share your recent and personal experience with them to illustrate why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[pangloss]

I have two PSA rifle, but I haven't put enough rounds through them to say if they are good rifles or not. If I were getting those rifles over again, I might look at this Aero precision rifle at Brownells (LINK (https://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/oem-mid-length-16-rifle-prod81838.aspx?avs%7cMake_3=AR-15&avs%7cManufacturer_1=aero+precision)). I don't have any experience with Aero precision, but based on other's comments, I think that they are a reputable manufacturer. AIM Surplus has an Aero Precision for $50 cheaper (LINK (https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1APCR100024&name=Aero+Precision+AR15+OEM+.223%2f5.56+16+in.+Mi d-Length+Rifle&groupid=5387)).

[Casual Friday]

You’ll notice I was careful to say that I only had 200 rounds through it and that is what I’m basing my experience on. You’ll also notice that I was careful to outline the minor issues I did have.

Fit and finish may not be import to you, but it is to me and many others. As for what is important for the OP’s purposes, I’ll let him be the judge of that. I offered my experience with a rifle I thought might be of interest to him.

You seem to be making it your mission to discount my experience and put PSA down, care to share your recent and personal experience with them to illustrate why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You're recommending rifles that have a long track record of being poor quality with a self admitted 200 rounds worth of experience. There's no mission on my part other than to dispel the bad info you're putting out. It's nothing personal.

My personal experience with PSA rifles and parts are that they are a crap shoot at best and my recommendation is to stay away from them unless they're a range toy. Even then I'd recommend spending a few hundred more on a rifle with a proven track record.

[leathermaneod]

I have two PSA rifle, but I haven't put enough rounds through them to say if they are good rifles or not. If I were getting those rifles over again, I might look at this Aero precision rifle at Brownells (LINK (https://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/oem-mid-length-16-rifle-prod81838.aspx?avs%7cMake_3=AR-15&avs%7cManufacturer_1=aero+precision)). I don't have any experience with Aero precision, but based on other's comments, I think that they are a reputable manufacturer. AIM Surplus has an Aero Precision for $50 cheaper (LINK (https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1APCR100024&name=Aero+Precision+AR15+OEM+.223%2f5.56+16+in.+Mi d-Length+Rifle&groupid=5387)).

A great suggestion. I was looking at Aero precision before I bought my PSA, but at the time, everything of theirs that I was interested in was out of stock. After I found PSA and saw the deals that were to be had, I decided it wasn’t worth waiting to see when Aero would be back in stock. I do want to build my next rifle with some Aero components though :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Joe in PNG]

If I were to go for cheap, I'd probably get a Colt Expanse (Summit link) for $675 (http://summitgunbroker.com/m4-expanse--.html)

[leathermaneod]

You're recommending rifles that have a long track record of being poor quality with a self admitted 200 rounds worth of experience. There's no mission on my part other than to dispel the bad info you're putting out. It's nothing personal.

My personal experience with PSA rifles and parts are that they are a crap shoot at best and my recommendation is to stay away from them unless they're a range toy. Even then I'd recommend spending a few hundred more on a rifle with a proven track record.

That’s fair. For now we’ll have to agree to disagree. Hopefully their are no hard feelings. My opinion may change after I get more time and rounds behind my rifle. Hopefully not, but we’ll see :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Clusterfrack]

I recommend against a non-free-floated handguard or an A2 fixed sight/gas block unless you know you want that configuration (eg 6920 or Expanse).

PSA has some good deals right now, and if cost is a concern, I’d look closely at those.

Another option is to get a PSA or other lower, and a BCM upper. Or even better, a complete BCM.

[TGS]

You're recommending rifles that have a long track record of being poor quality...My personal experience with PSA rifles and parts are that they are a crap shoot at best and my recommendation is to stay away from them unless they're a range toy.

Which line of rifles are you talking about?

There's a dramatic difference between the Premium line and PTAC. One is held to a standard, individual MPI/HPT bolts, etc.....the others are seconds, often out of spec. PSA practically says so, or at least used to in the past.

[schüler]

Colby, what's the max end of affordable for you - not including any optics or other accessories? Also, what are the likely ranges of yotes in your area?

A "defense" role for a multi-purpose rifle usually means a carbine or shorter barrel and a product reputable for reliability. It doesn't have to be free-float but free float from the beginning is cheaper in the long run and can significantly affect consistency if you intend to shoot yotes at extended carbine range as well.

Think about the whole package - 5.56 mil chamber isn't the best starting point for high accuracy on demand if that's what you need. No rifle achieves regular accuracy with cheap ammunition. Short barrels don't help with longer range shooting. But sometimes magic pills like Mk262 and DOPE proficiency can make it very workable.

Like Clusterfrack I prefer BCM as my bottom line. All of my and family's carbines are 14.5" BCM mid-length with pinned muzzle devices. Lowers are LMT, BCM. We've tried the cheaper ones but every single time there's been some stupid low-cost hang-up. Takedown pin out of spec, weak buffer springs, light weight carbine buffers, etc. We end up spending money and more time to bring them up to speed anyway.

If a BCM or similar is out of your price range you may look at the Colt Trooper AR.

These are machines. They can break. If it's truly a serious use tool think about a getting a second one in the future. Have a quality white light on each and get trained on them if you aren't already.

Good luck, happy hunting.

[HCM]

I have two PSA rifle, but I haven't put enough rounds through them to say if they are good rifles or not. If I were getting those rifles over again, I might look at this Aero precision rifle at Brownells (LINK (https://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/oem-mid-length-16-rifle-prod81838.aspx?avs%7cMake_3=AR-15&avs%7cManufacturer_1=aero+precision)). I don't have any experience with Aero precision, but based on other's comments, I think that they are a reputable manufacturer. AIM Surplus has an Aero Precision for $50 cheaper (LINK (https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1APCR100024&name=Aero+Precision+AR15+OEM+.223%2f5.56+16+in.+Mi d-Length+Rifle&groupid=5387)).

Aero’s receivers (which they make in house) are great, same with their scope mounts (in house) and barrels which are made by their subsidiary, Ballistic Advantage.

Aero’s complete rifles are another matter. The issues I’ve seen in their complete guns primarily involve parts they buy from outside vendors like BCG, lower parts kits etc the issue is they take a good quality barrel and receiver and build it out with the cheapest parts they can find. I’ve also seen some assembly errors.

[leathermaneod]

Aero’s receivers (which they make in house) are great, same with their scope mounts (in house) and barrels which are made by their subsidiary, Ballistic Advantage.

Aero’s complete rifles are another matter. The issues I’ve seen in their complete guns primarily involve parts they buy from outside vendors like BCG, lower parts kits etc the issue is they take a good quality barrel and receiver and build it out with the cheapest parts they can find. I’ve also seen some assembly errors.

Who do you recommend for small parts? BCM?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[HCM]

Colby, what's the max end of affordable for you - not including any optics or other accessories? Also, what are the likely ranges of yotes in your area?

A "defense" role for a multi-purpose rifle usually means a carbine or shorter barrel and a product reputable for reliability. It doesn't have to be free-float but free float from the beginning is cheaper in the long run and can significantly affect consistency if you intend to shoot yotes at extended carbine range as well.

Think about the whole package - 5.56 mil chamber isn't the best starting point for high accuracy on demand if that's what you need. No rifle achieves regular accuracy with cheap ammunition. Short barrels don't help with longer range shooting. But sometimes magic pills like Mk262 and DOPE proficiency can make it very workable.

Like Clusterfrack I prefer BCM as my bottom line. All of my and family's carbines are 14.5" BCM mid-length with pinned muzzle devices. Lowers are LMT, BCM. We've tried the cheaper ones but every single time there's been some stupid low-cost hang-up. Takedown pin out of spec, weak buffer springs, light weight carbine buffers, etc. We end up spending money and more time to bring them up to speed anyway.

If a BCM or similar is out of your price range you may look at the Colt Trooper AR.

These are machines. They can break. If it's truly a serious use tool think about a getting a second one in the future. Have a quality white light on each and get trained on them if you aren't already.

Good luck, happy hunting.

Colby, this ^^^ is solid advice. A BCM or Colt Trooper with a free float is my idea of a reasonably priced “do it all” rifle.

I will say if you are on a strict budget the S&W sport seems to be the best in its class of $500 is or less, same with the Leupold AR 1.25-4.

You can add a free float rail and a better trigger later. For the $$ it’s hard to beat ALG defense rails and triggers. Especially during their periodic holiday or Black Friday sales.

[HCM]

Who do you recommend for small parts? BCM?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

BCM
SIONICS
Sons of Liberty Gun Works
Colt
White Oak Armament

All of these LPK are made by Schmidt tool.

I believe DD LPK are, or were made by Schmidt tool as well.

ALG Defense.

Personally I’ve had good luck with Spikes LPKs but I purchased them 10 years ago. I can’t speak to their current quality.

[leathermaneod]

BCM
SIONICS
Sons of Liberty Gun Works
Colt
White Oak Armament

All of these LPK are made by Schmidt tool.

I believe DD LPK are, or were made by Schmidt tool as well.

ALG Defense.

Personally I’ve had good luck with Spikes LPKs but I purchased them 10 years ago. I can’t speak to their current quality.

Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Colby]

Thanks for all the input guys. I’ll do some price checking with an ffl buddy of mine on some of the more expensive suggestions. I’ve had a couple of different ARs in the past and had some limited training with them. Truth is they don’t get used a lot by me but I do like to have one around if needed, that’s what has prompted me to look for kinda the minimum cost but still reasonably effective set up.
As far as range on coyotes probably out to 2-300 yds max mostly used as a truck gun for that, I have plenty of bolt guns if I want to stretch out and shoot further.

Thx

[Totem Polar]

Be patient, and shop around, e.g. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29000-CDNN-LE-trade-in-M-amp-P-15

[HCM]

Be patient, and shop around, e.g. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29000-CDNN-LE-trade-in-M-amp-P-15

Another option is to buy a complete lower then buy an upper. If you are patient and wait for sales you can get a pretty good gun for les $$.

[Casual Friday]

Which line of rifles are you talking about?

There's a dramatic difference between the Premium line and PTAC. One is held to a standard, individual MPI/HPT bolts, etc.....the others are seconds, often out of spec. PSA practically says so, or at least used to in the past.

The uppers and lowers I had problems with were all from the Premium line, supposedly. None of the stuff I ordered was the PTAC or Freedom line.

[StraitR]

I put "rural use for coyotes" and "home defense" in two separate categories. Not that they require two different guns, but my criteria and desired quality level is entirely different for each. For hunting or riding on a quad/tractor, I'd be perfectly content with a home-built parts gun assembled from whomever I felt like buying parts from (PSA/Aero/Spikes/Etc). On the other hand, my preference for HD/social gun would be a known quality complete factory carbine or complete factory lower plus complete factory upper.

A home assembled lower isn't the end of the world, but I have personally seen people screw them up. Factory built/assembled upper is a must, IMO, and I'd happily take any of the following... Colt, BCM, DD, LMT, and KAC. Although I've since moved to a non-modified but accessorized semi-auto 12ga for HD, I used a Noveske factory complete upper and Noveske lower I assembled with a DD LPK. It kind of contradicts my recommendation, but this lower has given me 100% reliable service for the last eight years. I would buy a complete if doing another today. Would love to recommend Noveske, but I've read too many not-so-favorable things about them since John's untimely death.

Everyone has their opinions, preferences and standards. Those are simply mine.

[okie john]

Im looking for an affordable general purpose AR. I live in a semi rural area in Oregon so honestly most likely use will be an occasional coyote but I want something dependable that could be used for home defense. I’m thinking m&p sport optics ready with Leupold mark AR 1.5-4. I’m no expert so wanted to throw it out there if some of you guys have a better solution I’m all ears.
Thanks

I'd stretch the budget a little and go Colt 6920. You'll wish you had at some point in the future, and they're not going to get cheaper.


Okie John

[Clusterfrack]

Which is a better deal? Which will give more opportunity to modify for specific uses?

BCM Lower (Blem) $350 (https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/719002879/BCM+GUNFIGHTER+LOWER+GROUP+BLK+BLEM)
BCM 16" Mid Length (ENHANCED Light Weight) Upper Receiver Group w/ BCM MCMR-13 Handguard, with BCG and CH: $817 (https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BCM%2DURG%2DMID%2D1 6ELW%2DMCMR%2D13)
Total: $1167
25777

Colt 6920: $978 (https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/7000/Firearms/Rifles/Colt/Colt+LE6920+Law+Enforcement+30%2B1+223REM%2F5.56NA TO+16.1)
25776

[Colby]

Do we think that that bcm combo would be better set up than the colt ccu? Just asking because price would be close at that point. Also would that leupy mark AR still be a reasonably appropriate optic choice with that rifle?
Thx

[Clusterfrack]

Do we think that that bcm combo would be better set up than the colt ccu? Just asking because price would be close at that point. Also would that leupy mark AR still be a reasonably appropriate optic choice with that rifle?
Thx

Everyone is going to have their brand preferences, but I don't think there's much difference between those guns. The CCU is Colt's first foray into a design that BCM has been producing for a long time. I've read good things about it, but have not tested it personally. For that reason alone, I'd go with the BCM.

Cheap, low power variables are a deep rabbit hole, and will probably generate a lot more posts. Here's what I would try for if this was going to be my gun:

True 1x (not 1.5)
Daylight bright illumination (hard to find at that price point)
Etched reticle that's highly visible if the illumination fails
Good warranty (at this price, you will probably need it)

Check out the Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x.

Also the new Nikon Black Force1000 (http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/nikon-products/riflescopes/black-force1000.html) may be good. My buddy (https://youtu.be/WFN4OJQfAj4) runs part of their sport optics division, and had a lot of input in the design.

Oh, yeah, since this is Oregon you might give some thought to how this scope will/won't work in the rain. Offset backup sights may be helpful.

Or go with a red dot? If you're shooting inside 300 yds... that could work.

(OK, I'm done editing this post. Got to get back to work).

[Colby]

How about the larue ultimate upper kit for this role? Seems like great value for $800 ish, thinking 16” predatAR.
Thoughts on adding larue lower for $200 additional, or would aero or something similar for around $100 be good enough?
Thx
Colby

[Clusterfrack]

My experience is that LaRue chambers are more finicky with ammo than BCM.

[Colby]

Ok. Good to know. Thanks.

[frozentundra]

S&W M&P15 MOE for $700 is a pretty good deal. https://www.cdnnsports.com/smith-wesson-m-p15-moe-mid-5-56.html Also in FDE furniture for the same price if that's your thing.

They also have M&P15T with a free float quad rail for $700, but this version has a recessed target crown with no threads on the barrel. It'd probably be hell on coyotes though. https://www.cdnnsports.com/smith-wesson-m-p15t-5-56-tactical-package.html

The 5R 1:8 melonite barrels that Smith uses in these guns will probably be quite accurate for your application.

Edit to add: If you can save a few hundred or more on the rifle by getting a factory S&W on sale, and then put that money toward a higher quality optic, you'd probably be further ahead in some ways. But that is all based on application and preference.

Good luck!!

Edit again: Here is the M&P 15T with free float rail and threaded barrel for $750 https://www.cdnnsports.com/smith-wesson-m-p15t-556-tactical.html

[NH Shooter]

Has the Springfield Armory Saint (https://www.springfield-armory.com/saint-series/) established any track record yet? It seems to have a good mix of features at a competitive price for a KISS carbine...


https://www.springfield-armory.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/ST916556B_1200xN.png


That said, I've settled on a BCM upper (https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-ENHANCED-Light-Weight-Upp-p/bcm-urg-mid-16-bfh-elw-kmr-a13.htm) and BCM lower (http://shop.bravocompanymfg.com/AR15-M4-BCM-Lower-Receiver-Group-Stock-Mod-0-Black-p/lrg-stk-mod-0-blk.htm) fitted with a Geissele SSA trigger and an A5 buffer assembly. As shown below it weighs under 7 pounds unloaded (sans the WML) and with 75 and 77 grain pills is one of the most accurate (precise) uppers I've owned;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/bcmcarbine-1.jpg

[Chuck Haggard]

The thought to go with the Colt or BCM is solid.

The ONLY cheap AR I'd go with is the S&W M&P Sport. Period.

Every sample I've worked with has been solid. I have flogged mine badly in classes, and taken three deer and two coyotes with it now. I've got well over 2000 rounds through my sample with zero stoppages due to the gun (and only one stoppage at all, was a bad magazine...). Mine is accurate, and it feeds cheap ammo like Russian steel cased.

[Lost River]

Personally I would opt for a Colt 6720 (skinny barrel lightweight gun), or a Colt Trooper (free floated rail).

Both can be had for relative cheap these days.

Frankly the pendulum is still at the favorable end of things and it most definitely will swing the other way again, and guys will be lamenting about how they should have purchased ABC, etc. Now is the time to buy in my view.

Colt 6720 $947.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36/products_id/78051/Firearms/Rifles/Colt%20AR6720%20AR15-A3%20Tactical%20Carbine%2020+1%20223REM/5.56NATO%2016.1/quot/



Colt Trooper $981 with free shipping.

https://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/colt/le6920-r-trooper-m4-5-56-30rd-centurion-arms-m-loc-free-float-rail-black-carbine-rifle/

Cheers!